A Death Trap on the Dyno.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
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That anecdote gave me flashbacks.
I installed a lighting coil, lights, and a horn on my Yamaha TZ250G and commuted to Seattle’s Harbor Island for a couple of years and then switched back to my 500 Interceptor (VF500F). The TZ was faster but the Interceptor was less work.
You got to open up that exhaust port on the main motor my dude. You are trying to move massive amounts of gas through there with next to no pressure differential, you can't create velocity to scavenge without a pressure differential.
Do a compression the 1st test after the 3rd or 4th. See if u drop about 7 psi
You would get so many views with Indonesian subtitles. 2stroke bikes man.
Sometimes I am more excited for these videos than I am for the actual weekend.
feel you
True 😅
What is a weekend?
@@ghockings rest days for rich people
I agree 100% wake up Saturday and watch this with a coffee ❤️perfection
That dip in the powerband, the low power, could it be wheelspin? Hmm, I remember using belt dressing spray on the roller last time I used this dyno, probably for a reason...
maybe ... try different weight on wheel ... u will see ... this bike is crasy 😅🤣🤣🤣
I think it's unlikely to be wheelspin but with such a small contact patch who knows 😂
I thought the dip was pretty normal on a two-stroke that doesn't have a power valve or similar 🤷🏻♂️
You can also wipe the tire with acetone or some other solvent, it removes any traces of oil or grease and also removes dust, that usually improves the traction
Engine and exhaust could have different timing. The powerband isn’t typically for a two stroke engine with no variable intake or exhaust. If engine and exhaust timing match perfectly you will have one peak, not two.
Try cheap hairspray on the rear!
Getting my 2 stroke fumes in early, what a nice way to start the day.
En av dina bästa videos på länge. Riktigt roligt å se köra å tydliga resultat och skillnader på det du gör.
If you look at your power, it stays very constant while rpm increases (and torque decreases of course). That's a bit strange, to me this looks like a possible flow issue if some sort, either intake or exhaust
As an engine builder and mechanic, Easily my favourite channel on TH-cam. Good work mate.
Have you seen Garage 4age?
He's in NZ and has a chassis dyno and tests his Toyota 4AGE equipped 'turd' as it's affectionately known. He tests intake length, exhaust headers, camshafts, valve timing, compression so on and so forth. It is very grass roots like this. It is a gem of a channel. It took me more than a year to realize what an excellent channel it actually is.
@@ThePaulv12 not to mention his vvt conversion on a 16v
@@youwantshum9860 pppppp
One thing I found very useful when experimenting with engines. Try one thing at a time. If you add more variables you don't know what exactly caused the change.
Keep up the good work!
This channel made me work on my gy6 moped to the point where 25mph was a struggle to the point now where i have rebuilt the engine 6 times. It sits between 40 and 45mph and has exploded on me twice. Very exciting. 😀
I like how you deleted the last bit of strength that poor frame had in the name of power.
Love the video, cant wait for the next one :)
I dont know if it is reasonable but i would like to see more shorts as updates between videos
I got mixed feedback when I did a few shorts earlier. Maybe a separate shorts channel, I'll think about it 👍
Man, I really missed the deathtrap. That was such a good build.
Good to see it back in action and getting the tuning it deserves.
wow that engine is smooth, loves being 9-10K, easily pulling hard up to its max
love these videos!
That was my thoughts too. Wonderful street engine!
Always a great day when you upload!
You are aware that exposure to burned leaded fuel impacts the IQ? Use your fume extractor as much as you can, no jokes. Great work, very entertaining.
YES, WHAT HE SAID! stay healthy!
Have you considered adding a power valve to your design? I feel like it would help with low-to-high rpm transition
He did have something like that a little bit back
Finally some realistic dyno testing, loving the new direction your taking, start basic and adding from there one thing at a time Thats the way to gain reliable and consistent power
You have the only thing I consistently watch. No show movie or TH-camr compares
I bet there are lots of Honda CR80 shifter karters that would love to see what you can do with an CR80 engine.
Hello to the deathtrap, The machine for people with Big Balls.
No pipe tuning again? You will NEVER get anywhere without this. That type of spark plug is WRONG. The CENTER type plugs I used, Why, because they work BETTER.
Yeah, that 294 Nm of torque from a 50cc is awesome, much less at a mere 300 RPM. 🤣
😂👍
I use my phone for reading the numbers on jets. Zoom in and then take the photo and check on your gallery after you take the picture. Good for "old eyes" 👀🤭
17:03 = Yup... EXACTLY what I'd bloody do!.. Hahaha It's typical for me to be concentrating on something/working on something and I'd knock, bang into, drop a tool, of just generally bang, scrape, cut or trap myself doing the thing I was trying to do hahaha... (if the keyboard is buggered, I could HIGHLY recommend the 'Logitech K400 Plus' I use one, have seen other tuners use them and, as it is a keyboard and trackpad in one, it's a great little unit (I can attest it does survive stupid drops too! 😉)... Nice to see with your change in Dyno tactics you're getting the results and less troubles you need to continue this project 👍 😎🇬🇧
It's funny that the peak power on that engine is 9200-10000 and you're obsessing over it not revving higher... What it revs to beyond peak power doesn't matter.. It's falling off massively that high in the RPM range.. it's pointless to rev it that high.. You should be shifting at maybe 11k MAX on that engine, and in final gear that's about where you'd be letting off. Revving it past 13k isn't going to give you any more top speed when you are falling off on power.
This dyno is awesome! But be aware of the wheelspin or clutch slipping. Im pretty sure it has wheelspin because its a common issue on inertia dynos and with that narrow tire.
Yep, pretty sure that ppwer dip is wheelspin 👍
Fills room with exhaust, I need to relocate my exhaust extractor.
Fast forward: This is the good stuff, lead fuel.
That can't be good for you in the long-term.
What about instead of forced induction, forced removal exhaust? Or maybe a finely tuned combo?
Einsteins desk / workspace was famous for its clutter....
Why not run a wideband O2 sensor and get more insight into your AFR? Seems like it would save some of the guesswork having visual insight as to what is happening.
His neighbors must think he’s building an f1 car, only to pull out with the worlds most over engineered bycicle
This is so sketchy and I love it. That’s a lot of power to the axle, can that axle reliably handle those loads? 10HP spinning parts up to catastrophic failure is a LOT of energy I think.
I had same type of dip on power on my 150. It had shit pipe.
More advanced timing lessened the dip but didn't remove it
It’s hard to believe all that noise, rpm and power comes from a little two stroke. Can’t wait to see the forced induction on the chassis dyno.
Stopped what i was doing instantly to watch this 🤣
I pulled out to watch this
@@RipJawsX95 damn son 🤣
You know how many views you would get if you had Indonesia subtitles?
you call that a death machine finnish jonnes call that derbi
did i spy a samsung note 10+? Good phone. The magnifier app is the bomb in this phone if u have one
Love it. What could be better on a Friday evening than sitting with a beer and watching 2 stroke Dyno runs. Can't wait for the next one😊
I'm sitting with a bourbon and our cats. A bear takes a lot of my couch 😅
Lol a bear :D
So look fwd to your videos!! Greatest way to start my day.
You really need to use that yourdyno trick i gave you in the last video for getting engine rpm and letting the dyno work out the ratio for you in one click. I will re post : YOURDYNO TIPS : Go to yourdyno, Start new run or load existing, Click RPM Setup, Go to gear ratio setup tab, Engine RPM Source box choose Tacho, Put 10,000rpm in the Tacho RPM setpoint, Use a tacho or your ignition unit and hold the motor at 10,000rpm. Then click lock gear ratio. Simple as that. No need for any sensors, trigger wheels, or wiring (All susceptible to noise). The motor does not change its ratio and neither does the retarder. Super simple.
You also dont need to lift the bike to measure the losses. Do the losses with the bike strapped down. Then its the total losses for the run.
Hey are you gonna start making customs parts and sell them?
Love these longer videos 🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼
Bike companies should consider you
nice, good to compare with a [somewhat] known engine. looking forward to see the numbers with the screamer.
Could it be the rear break that is reducing power in the 2nd and 3rd run, maybe loosen it up a little?
It feels like everything just went up a notch and got more interesting and exciting when you shifted direction. I feel like this has helped make the path forwards clearer. Applaud you for the ability to do this, especially when it involves abandoning something you spent so much time working on like the dyno and beam mounted setup. I think you've nailed it with the last two videos, and the plan you have from here - you seem reinvigorated and I think all of us are too. Loving the editing too - it's just so fun and engaging to watch. Can't wait for next weekend!
Peak power at 11000rpm?
I thought that the pro race kit peak power was around 14-15000rpm?
And 15+bhp?
Or is that power figure at crank?
Even the SP kits peak power is around 12-13000rpm according to the metrakit information if I remember correctly?
Carb size?
Ignition timing?
I'm confused too. Maybe Yasuni R3 isn't for high power and rpm, I should take some measurements.
Definetely nice to see things finally work properly, good progress keep it up!
losing power as the engine heats up - smells a little bit like compression issues. how is the piston and ring doing? also, speaking of smelling things, maybe the brakes or chain start dragging when they get hotter? don't think it's wheelspin though, a warmer tyre should actually have more grip than a cold one
Tetra Ethyl Lead is good!
It looks as though your rpm is measuring the Dyno wheel rpm and not your engine. Rpm doesn't drop in between shifts or when you pull the clutch in.
Engine rpm is calculated from roller rpm in sixth gear, thats why.
Modern day "Reodor Fälgen". In the early days of the 90´s in the Gocart scene you aleways wanted the carburator as close to the inlet as possible. I´ve forgot duration timing of exhaust though. Kör på -du är på god väg. Cant get enough of this.
Are you correcting to standard temp., pressure and humidity?
No, I could though, if anything just for comparison.
@@2STROKESTUFFING It is helpful to correct your tests so they are as close as possible to actual performance numbers, especially when you're away from home (Bonneville). As you know, the weather alone can account for up to about + or - 10% on the bhp... much larger at altitude. Why not include the test conditions and forget about it?
@@davidgierke7582 👍I'm just nervous people will start complaining about correction factors...
Have you tried indexing the spark plug to put the spark in the best location? Plug shrouding can really hurt high RPM performance....
At the start you said that it was a 115 main jet & needle on the lean position I would have liked to see the difference in runs as you richened up the needle position can you do this next time , thanks for another excellent vid
The needle doesn't really affect wide open throttle, as I'm doing WOT runs it won't make a difference. Richer needle position made for a very on/off characteristic - gurgling until wide open, then full blast. Not too pleasant out on the road.
Was your death trap bike once an NSU quickly?
Yep, 1957 Quickly
When you lit that pitch saturated wood on fire, it suddenly clicked in my mind as to what your videos were missing! There should be at least one pyromania moment in each of your videos. That was the cherry on top man.., bravo! 😉😅
Make me wanna put a 2 stroke on my minibike and take off the 4 stroke.
hi. where did you buy that carb ? do you have a link. i could do with one for honda mtx project
Maxiscoot.com
In over 45 years I have never used the clutch when shifting.
Up....
With the stock slipper clutch on my SV1000s I never used the clutch except for 1st gear from a stop, but reversing the shift pattern made my shifts even quicker.
Hello there, what do you think of that carburetor with 40° angled valve? I've bought it and, in comparison to a classic straight pwk, i seem to find the engine running much richer with the same jetting and needle settings! Did that happen to you too?
I haven't compared it to other carbs on this engine but seems like it - 115 main is small
@@2STROKESTUFFING 115 is small indeed, I used 122-125 on an Airsal 70cc on my engine with an MVT DD ignition, similar to your Italkit! Do you have in mind of comparing the two carburetors in the future?
Anyway, it's great fun see you to also work and have fun on such engines for a change! Maybe one day give an AM6 engine a try, even if it's old and badly optimized!
Will wait for the next update. Have a nice day!
Does acoustic supercharging effect anything in 2 stroke like in 4 stroke
I'd just like to say thank you. You've inspired me to turn in a totally different direction. I'm 51 and I'm going back to work, I got jack shit for hands on experience, but I understand HOW a motor works, I welded for a while, in my welding shop there was a powder paint booth and oven and lastly I've spent countless hours working on bicycles growing up. So, logically I came to the conclusion that I need to start my own my business, so I'm going to build custom motorized bicycles. I've got an a absolutely unique hook to bring in customers, unfortunately THIS particular bit of info must stay secret until it's time to implement it. I'm in the process of devouring every video you've put out. I really enjoy your videos and especially your delivery, very engaging, I doff my hat to you good sir.
Thanks! Glad I can be an inspiration, that's maybe my main goal with this channel. Means a lot!
@@2STROKESTUFFING thank you for answering you've got a loyal viewer here forever, this Is something I can do til I'm 100
Try to keep your prices low unless your near bigger income areas. Used to build them and couldn't sell for 500 bucks but mid income area in Indiana. Used to make custom headbadges for bikes as well
Man you need more light, alot of light on that garage, make things more fun, and dont force your vision in the dark
You have accounted for the losses in the dyno roller, but i dont see you factoring in the drivetrain losses on run-down.
You can see at the end of your run (when you dump the clutch) you show -11/-10hp which should be added to your peak value.
Ideally you should coast to 0 wheel rpm and add the negative curve to the positive curve to show your engine horsepower.
Doing this drivetrain correction will also add consistancy to your hot run issue. As the tyre gets hotter and stickier the losses increase (these will be removed in the above calc)
You have already factored in the roller losses so if you use the overall coast down method you mustn't account for these losses twice.
This may explain why the results didnt meet your expectations of the engine.
You are closer than ever to have something consistent and useful! Nearly there.
Hope this helps, hard to explain here.
Fraser
With a 2 stroke and dyno testing aren't they supposed to start up at max rpm them you put a load on them to get max power and torque?
I'd say pipe length might help
There is a towel or a rag or something right behind the bike that is flopping around in the wind created by the dyno or rear wheel.
This is an accident waiting to happen.
If that rag flys off and gets into the rear wheel or the dyno there is going to be a HUGE accident.
Just my opinion.
What engine is it on the Death Trap? What motorcycle/moped is it from?
Derbi Eur2
@@2STROKESTUFFING nice, thanks for the info. Im building a motorized bicycle and this should be the right engine for my project, if I find one.
Thanks
The power curve doesnt look like as it should with this setup.
Main jet should be about 130
You should measure the water temperatur
back to starting point is always good..
You know there are ,. close to 20K rpm ,50cc racing in the 70s, 90s , Think 18 - 19 hp .. can be more ..hope you can finde sume more ! . Ronnie
My "old" engine has ~23hp and easily revs past 20k. It's very conventional, unconventional is more interesting(but hard...)
EFI... with full ECU... with high output spark... throw the carburetors away..
YES.. expensive.. BUT.. you know thats what you need..
DIPS in fuel maps can never been tuned out..( in all conditions - hot / cold high and low altitude - air pressure etc etc ) as the Low to High circuit transitions will always plague you..
COME ON.. do a FUND RAISER.. and get the project FINISHED..
FYI a clean desk is a sure sign of mental derangement!
5-7hp loss through chain and wheel, isnt it plausible? I was thinking until you said 77cc😬
You gotta have fun. Theres something compulsive about these video's, The wide screen , the colour gamut, the Jazz. I watched some formula E on tv recently and was so put off by the engine sound, 1-4KHz. 14HP, 77cc, 10.5KW, that impresses me.
Sorry I don't speak English well
I had one a few years ago, with a 28 pwk/SCR RL70/ Squich 0.7 RV 14.5, 130/195, I had a power range from 9500 to 14500 rpm
what is your exhaust?
You are superbly bonkers, mate....lovely video. Thanks...
I think the deathtrap is running a 2-stroke on a dyno with basically no room airflow ...
How much km/h is that 6th gear 13k RPM? just in theory?
148kmh. Still pulling hard at 129kmh when road testing, I let off. 130kmh+ with worse-than-bicycle-frame/tires/brakes in the wet seemed like a bad idea.
@@2STROKESTUFFING yea, you have no fear to be riding that past 90... it was full of adrenalin for sure..
Could you modify the ignition pickup plate so that you could advance the timing manually from the handlebar, like the old 1950's bikes?
Whenever I watch, I cannot help but to think of the MD550 2S drone engine. If a foreigner calls asking for advice tuning a 550cc 2S square 4, just ignore them.
Mill the head to increase compression ratio, run methanol, increase carburetor size, maybe raise exhaust port top a mm or two? 'Since your powerband is purely up top: Maybe expansion chamber needs to route out of the jug going straight down? Is the volume of the belly of that expansion chamber and length from that, out the silencer / spark arerester tuned to your displacement / RPMS pulses?
Lifting the vehicle off the rolls reminds of about 25 years ago with our Clayton 8.65" dual roll emissions dynos with clutch-able flywheels and hydro-kinetic power absorption unit (PAU, for road load simulation). The flywheels were to simulate the vehicle mass in 125 pound increments from about 2000 pounds to 6000 pounds. Each increment needed a friction power loss calibration. With no electric motor on the system, a vehicle had to spin the dyno system (rolls and flywheels) up above 55 mph. Then an air jack system would be actuated to lift the rear bumper of the vehicle so that the drive wheels were off the dyno rolls. A timer measured the time to coast between 55 and 45 mph. The coast time and flywheel inertia setting was used to calculate and adjustment to the road load setting for the amount of friction in the dyno system for each flywheel combination. A table of friction power adjustment was created and used to adjust the road load setting for the 50 mph road load horsepower setting that was entered into the PAU controller.
Calibrations are mostly automated and simpler with the 48inch diameter single roll dynos with electric road load and inertia simulation that replaced those old Clayton dynos. Electric dyno is mechanically simpler too, without a bunch of flywheel clutches and bearings that needed replacement every now and then.
Are you using Italkit seletras for the ignition? Wouldnt something like the Malossi MHR Team II's or Bidalot PVL's be better because i believe the seletras ignition graph is the same as ducatis which while being good could be better, correct me if im wrong. either way, great video !
Considered building an opposed cylinder 2 stroke maybe?
What is the inertia of the roller Alex?
2.17kg
When you hit 187 Nm of torque, I started printing 1000 party invitations ... then you moved the decimal point on me. I'll re-use the paper.
Please tell us what frames are you using...the riding frame, the new frame for testing etc ?
Really want to know...UK 50cc addict
Isn't it infuriating to see how even a 77cc engine makes way less power than the Dutchmens 50ccs... 🤠 I am quite sure that oxygen content is high in Dutch and other central European dynorooms.
It's also interesting how little difference the timing has. After reading forum posts for years, it seems like the ignition plays a huge role but in reality it's almost annoying how little the engine seems to care.
Props for setting up a honest inertia dyno and not messing around with any correction factors.
Losing power when hot is all too familiar for me. When riding a bike like this often it feels massively powerful with the first pull but quickly loses its edge. I think it is partly unevitable but too rich mixture makes it worse. Power dip seems like clutch slip but it doesn't sound like it though.
Yeah, might be cause they're at negative elevation down there😁. Traveling to Germany in March, I'll take O2 measurements in secrecy.
Brings my "old" engine into good light though, 18hp at the wheel, same dyno and same fuel, through a variator.
iame m50 cylinder ported to typical numbers, rotary valve, 30mm carb.
I think the dip is wheelspin, trying with belt dressing spray monday. Also bringing it to some friends with a commercial dyno to compare results, their roller probably has better grip. There's no clutch slip when riding it, and you can't feel the dip.
About ignition timing, yes, it's a mystery, you'd think it would make a huge difference.
@@2STROKESTUFFING Do you think the ignition timing effect wasn't as profound because the squish clearance needs adjusted?
You could cheat a bit and change to an electric water pump if you already haven’t. Could possibly gain a horsepower on 11 000+ rpm. But then again powering it would be a hassle.
😈😈😈 i remember seeing those 250 pit bike motors putting out 12 hp ... that was like 12 years 😈😈😈
Had a girlfriend who was riding her moped with a long scarf on. It got caught in the rear wheel. She got banged up pretty good but otherwise OK. She's Danish...go figure...
You are probably the ''mechanic'' with the most mathematical literacy and engineering youtube has ever recorded!
You’re FRICKEN MAD 😂 and I love it 🤣 so Heath Robinson yet so much fun 😂👍✌️🇬🇧
Get an old craigslist Honda scooter frame, if your HP numbers are correct you're putting out equal to my Honda helix 250cc
13 wheel hp is alot for a literal bicycle lol. i wanna test ride that thing
you know you should really-REALLY cover that drive chain before it eats your foot. one boot lace is all it takes my friend. Please don't be foolish on this one.
i have same engine with airsal 80 on my moped
exhaust flange does not fit properly in exhaust port and i am thinking about expanding exhaust port for flange to fit into it. Is that good idea or bad?
also while cylinder is off any tips on filing transfer ports making them bigger and polishing them for more power
I also trenched engine block for more free flow to transfers it increased bottom end.
Regards
jumps forward off the dyno catching chin on the keyboard mount , chaos.. Nord VPN!! :)