The scary thing is Jeff, the kid that survived the Champlain South collapse but his mother died? His dad lives on that side of the North building that has those cracks I think. I know his Dad and now the kid live there. I remember seeing footage from the dad showing him on like the 4th to 6th floor at the edge looking down the road to the South collapse. The kid has major PTSD and I couldn't imagine being in an identical building
Ever since Champlain Towers South collapsed last year I've been watching your videos and learning a lot about structural problems. I'd be afraid to be in that building right now. Plus every time I go into a building especially in the parking garage below I find myself looking up at the ceiling.
I lived in a building in Hackensack, New Jersey at 300 Prospect Avenue and used to see shoring poles in the garage and used to feel the garage vibrate and I swore there was going to be a collapse. Lo and behold less than 5 years after moving out the whole garage collapsed.
One fact I would like to bring up.i worked for a builder called Winchester Homes.i was out on the job sight one day and watched the concrete company pour three homes foundation walls.Back then about 40,000.00 each.the superintendent was walking around and on the ground was the order for concrete.He picked it up and looked at it.All I saw looking at him he was Hot.The order showed that the concrete company ordered 2500 psi.concrete.The contract called for 3500 psi.That day he ordered the concrete company to remove all the walls and foundations and replace everything with 3500 psi concrete or he would and back charge the company for cost.They toe down all walls ,and foster ,one weeks work.Quality company"""!!!
There are test cylinders that were required by law to be poured along with every batch of concrete and these were numbered and recorded and saved this information will verify & confirm…What happened
I have a thought about the netting on the balconies. The people who live there might be trying to keep small cats or dogs or perhaps even small children from being able to squeeze through the bars and fall off of the balcony. I know I'd do something to protect my cats from going through those bars if I had similar ones on my patio. I opted to keep my cats on leashes back when I had a patio like that but my apartment was also on the ground floor. I wasn't worried about them falling, but about them running into the busy street.
I never never ever thought I would like engineering stuff. I am absolutely fascinated by your material and coverage of the Champlain towers stuff you put out Jeff. Very very bright guy to watch. And OMG have I learned a lot from you!!!! Thank you!!!
I bet people who try and sell here aren't going to be experiencing people OVER bidding the asking price :) Maybe they are offering 90 day warranties that the patio or building won't collapse during that time but you are on your own after that :)
I’m glad the building is getting attention for these problems. I’m disturbed how far these problems get before they get attention. Is this a result of the sister building collapsing and they finally started scrutinize this one? I certainly would not feel good being an owner one of those units at this point in time.
After the sister building collapsed attention was immediately turned to this building because they knew it was the sister building. But they have a world class structural engineer there right now who is running things and I have full confidence in his ability.
@@brnmcc01 I am plenty of confidence and morapito I think he had a really excellent plan drawn up for what he was going to do with the building I do plan a video on that soon
@@johnbergstrom2931 You’re right, and then Covid happened which made the CTS assoc drag their feet even harder. But they had to pay up as well, just not as much as Securitas.
I'm sure they know more than we know as I'm pretty sure they likely get updates from the engineer the engineer has to what is going on and if he says the building is not in danger of collapsing then I believe him, however I still won't go animals patio decks. It's pretty scary to think about it though because last September I toward one of the condo units in that building and was out on the patio
I live around the corner from these buildings and I wouldn’t be able to sleep comfortably in the sister buildings. Miami is SO corrupt, and money is valued over lives, and I highly doubt those sister buildings are safe.
Well if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars in life earnings invested in a condo in CTN, you're not just going to walk away from that. And since no one is really interested in buying at CTN right now, residents are stuck. Under those circumstances, the brain is very good at rationalizing away (legitimate) concerns over safety.
Omg they are very brave living in that building after everything that has happened. I doubt if the people could sell there condos because who would truly buy them.
Wow! Hey Jeff, I sat on a Condo Board Of Directors from (2009 to 2014) of a river front 1966 built condo building in Windsor, Canada🇨🇦. (Windsor is across the river from Detroit) The balconies of this building had already been completely rebuilt before I purchased three condos in the building. The Special Assessment cost to each home owner was $10,000.00 per balcony. End units floor plans had two balconies per unit. So, I can relate to this edition of your expert observations. It is all so very interesting. I have been binge watching (from time to time) all your videos about the Champlain Condos since the sad collapse catastrophe. Praying that all older building can survive the stress test of recertification! Forget bank stress tests…condo recertification is far more important! Thank you for sharing your valuable expertise and knowledge. Your videos should be required viewing for all those everyday people who voluntarily sit on the Board of Directors of all condo buildings EVERY WHERE. Gladys, Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
@@WN_Byers Interesting! Our old elevators broke down about twice a month. We were on service contract and they were repaired. We always had the SAME repair man mid week. But ONCE, it broke down on a Saturday. We called for service…a DIFFERENT SERVICE man was sent. Being a member of the board of directors, I decided to speak to him. I found out “that basically our elevators were fine…what they needed was an internal upgrade tune-up” At LESS THAN 1/20th the cost of replacement. There is ho reason to change the carriage” I was told! Until then the property manager was pushing for completely new elevators. I delightfully reported back to the other members of the board about what I had learned to great sighs of relief! Same with home furnaces…just upgrade or replace the heating unit inside…the entire furnace housing does not need replacing!
After what happened to the neighbouring block and looking at the pictures of the balconies on this building. I wouldn't want to stay there at all. Really so sad for those who lost their lives...🙏❤🇬🇧
Something I was told by a contractor 40 years ago. He predicted exactly what is going on now. Condos on the ocean there, some OTHER builders used beach sand in the concrete to save money, The salt in the sand is causing corrosion and expansion of the rebar. That was told to me by someone who was a concrete contractor in another state and a concrete tester/inspector.
@@jeffostroff so, I suppose you know more than the man who owned a concrete company and was a state inspector. Where did you get your education? You think there were no leaks in the buildings? How about the spalling concrete? Always some genius who knows more than the experts did.
@@jeffostroff also I suggest you take about 60 seconds and search concrete failure rusty rebar. How do people just post their insane ideas as FACTS? I f you don't know, maybe you should search before you comment. If people did it might do a lot to stop the spread of ignorance in this country. I cited an authority I knew personally, you just post WHAT YOU THOUGHT. It might help you in life to realize you do not know everything about everything and before you attempt to correct others, you just might know the FACTS before you offer your 'wisdom'.
Jeff, people who live in hi-rises often put nets and chicken wire on their balconies so their pets don't fall off. This is very common in NYC and northern NJ.
After the other tower had collapsed, I can't see why anyone would still want to be living in this one...the engineer who approved those plans back in the day should've NEVER approved that design. But hey it may have fit the Bldg code at that time. Smh such devastation 🙏🏻.
I still firmly believe that the added penthouse was a huge contributing factor. To my understanding NOTHING was changed in the plans to account for the added weight, and that the building was pretty close to maximum capacity before the addition of the penthouse. I'd argue that CTN and CTE are probably the safest buildings in Miami right now due to all eyes being on them.
a big difference is that this condo seems to have a more compotent board then south did. Note i know they got a better board for south but they got in too late. this board seems more ontop of it.
@@Helladamnleet and then all the added weight from all the updates owners did with updating their homes. Jeff did a great job with a video on that. So freaking sad, I can't imagine the ppl that were awake & heard as well as seen their building falling...
@@Helladamnleet Well, attention is not the type of structural reinforcement that could compensate engineering errors and poor quality, combined with overloading, lack of maintenance and aging.
Yeah, there's nothing that could make me choose to remain living in any of the Champlain Towers buildings after the collapse of the south tower, especially knowing they were constructed using the same structural blueprint designs. I don't care if someone came in, inspected the entire property, and said it was the most structurally sound building they'd ever stepped foot in, I'd always have that fear eating away at me and I surely wouldn't be able to sleep at night. This building here was maintained better, doesn't have the added penthouse weight, and so on, but it all comes down to the fact that it's identical sister tower collapsed. That alone is enough to make me refuse to live there. Unfortunately, I would imagine these condos aren't that easy to sell now, all things considered, and will ultimately sell for far less than they would have before the south tower collapsed.
Wow Jeff, you certainly have an eagle eye. The Miami Herald should give you an award as I'm sure they're digging your content! On a somewhat related note, Did we ever figure out why Securitas settled for half a bil? What would their culpability be? Alarms not going off? Not reporting creaks/cracks/groans weeks up to the collapse? Of all the settlements this seems the most confounding to me.
I heard that during depositions the security guard had said something about that they were never trained on certain operations of the fire alarms but anyway the security company had backing by a whole bunch of insurers and so they all decided to just settle even though they weren't even named as a defendant yet at that time.
@@jeffostroff Even if that's the case, why over 500 million? They could have just put up say like 35 million, and called it good, since they weren't directly sued. How these generally work is there is a total sum, and then all the defendants pay a portion based on their portion of fault. I can't see any way to pin nearly 50% of the fault of the collapse and resulting tort claims on Securitas. The lawyers for the plaintiffs found many faults, from Morabito to 87 Park, there was plenty of blame to go around. Maybe they were thinking if they had ordered an evacuation faster, more lives could be saved? I kind of doubt this, there is no possible way one security guard working alone at night would have had any time to go door to door, trying to wake people up at 1am and telling them to get out. She tried to do that, and called 911. There's 911 call records of that and the alarm company calling it in well before the final collapse. Takes a lot longer to get that many people up, dressed, and get out of the building, even if you called in every possible spare law enforcement to come and order people to get out. Someone could do a study on this and say start from when the tourist heard that crash from the parking garage, and guesstimate how many people could they have evacuated before the building collapsed. I'd be willing to put money on not very many. Keep in mind people generally don't want to get out of bed at 1am, and leave their valuables and pets behind, and run out into the street partially clothed or naked. Seen so many videos of a plane crash and the damn planes wings are on fire, and people are still opening the overhead bins to grab their laptop etc, and jumping down the slides carrying a whole bunch of stuff. It's just not realistic to evacuate that big of a building in 10 minutes.
@@brnmcc01 My theory is that she was stoned out of her mind and maybe fast asleep when the pool deck collapsed. Listen to her 911 calls. She barely even knows the address of the property. Totally incoherent. Even 10+ minutes after the collapse she told the cops, "I don't even know what's going on!" and "I didn't know we had earthquakes in Florida!" She never bothered to get off her ass, grab a flashlight and see for herself the pool deck damage when the trouble first started, maybe try to understand the emergency that was part of her job to handle. Indicators were there even earlier when the pool deck rebar was snapping prior to collapse. Impaired pothead = $ 517.5 mil. (But I agree with you. If I was the CEO of Securitas, no way in hell I would roll over for that amount of money, put a big black stain on my company.)
@@johnbergstrom2931 You need to do a little more research. Your theory is very incorrect. She didn't know the address because she had just been assigned to that building. When she first heard noises, she thought it was the elevator. When it became apparent that that wasn't the case, she pulled the fire alarm in the lobby (proven by the alarm system records) and then began calling residents one by one to tell them to evacuate. Unfortunately, it was too late. As for her telling police she had no idea what was going on, the police AND firefighters can also be heard saying THEY don't know what's going on and even one stated "it's not a collapse" before realizing what happened. No one knew what was going on. And she is one of MANY people interviewed about the collapse that said they didn't think Florida has earthquakes.
I remember visiting one of my mom’s friends in a condo and she had similar nets on her balcony too. She used it to prevent her two tiny dogs from falling 9 floors. Maybe that’s the same thing here? But it does look suspicious given all the cracking…
Hi Jeff, I have a question. When the south building collapsed, and while they demo'ed the remainder of the building, could any of the vibrations from the collapse cause damage to the sister building or to any building in close proximity for that matter. I am just curious 🤔 if any structures could handle that amount of force from the collapse and triggered explosives. Thanks for always keeping us up to date. I truly appreciate you and everything you have done covering this situation. God bless these lost souls and I still pray for comfort for their families and friends.
Don't really know the answer to that but I do know that they've been employed in buildings for decades and to my knowledge it has not caused any problems to adjacent buildings before
@@jeffostroff there really isn't that much force being applied. The force of the implosion is on the demolition building. You might have some vibration from the falling debris? You might have some additional wind loading again from the building falling? But nothing that would significantly do anything. The blast effects are not outward.
The ground wave is akin to an earthquake. The high moisture, sandy soil acts like water as the wave propagates outward. The amplitude of the wave lifts and then drops nearby structures.
@@jeffostroff did you ever see Bill Wurtz’s Blackhawk? The hockey team. The guys nickname was Dollar Bill and if you walked on to his yacht it was like walking into a time warp from 1963. Used to have it brought up to Chicago in the summers and then floated back down to Florida in the winter.
Jeff, As I remember, I was exposed to your "deal" videos before the Champlain Towers collapse. I thought you wee just a "deal guy". Then I started following your engineering analysis videos. I'm drawn to your observations like a moth to fire. Thank you for all the effort you put into these follow up posts.
Thanks so much Keith and yes I'm glad you have been around before that to see all the great deals as well. Being an engineer I have a lot of experience in different facets of construction as I buy in flip condos condos and deal with a lot of tools and so going live at home depot's in Lowe's in Costco over the last few years was pretty much 2nd nature for me.
@@terywetherlow7970 Yes originally put the channel up to show videos on construction and remodeling and then one day decided since I spent so much time in Lowe's in home depot that I would flip on the livestream livestream start showing the deals in there
@@jeffostroff Yes i too love the deals you show. I have watched ur reviews & take heed to what u say. Not like i buy big guy stuff....i am the tiny gal asking for info in the aisles and annoying daylights out of grumpy sales men😂 they hate making keys.....i would love that part. Oh and paint....
Exactly Grant! The latent damage is the one that does all the damage. Just like a Champlain to ourselves I'm sure had they seen what was really going on inside the concrete that would have evacuated the building.
So happy to see a new video! Please keep them coming. Ooooh those cracks... Well spotted Jeff. Did you happen to see the new hallway footage of the Champlain Towers South collapse?
@@jeffostroff - what bugs me is people think that these places are an apartment complex, and the people there have absolutely nothing to do with how the building is maintained...
@@jeffostroff Yeah I agree. Nothing in the video moves which is very odd (also the lights stay on) but I'd like to believe that the audio we hear is real. One can hear how the building slowly but surely leans and creaks and then there's a mighty rip and roar to the ground.
Great video Jeff. I don't know how anyone could live in the CTN building. I'm learning so much about architectural engineering. Keep these vids coming. 👍
The engineers are telling them so far it's stable and remember it's a couple of years younger than the Champlain tower Sounds so the way I see it they have 2 more years before they have to worry about collapse
In Springfield IL we had a hotel at 1st and Adams close, took out everything interior, and took off the walls, leaving just bare concrete floors, and rebuild from that, about 10 years ago. No tornado or storm damages or complaints from people who stayed there.
Love your videos Jeff. But I suspect THAT balcony netting on the CT North 6th floor balcony you zoomed in on is not to protect from falling debris. I say that because the way it is placed it would not protect from falling debris. It would usually be suspended from above over the balcony below. I suspect that netting is to protect some little dog or cat from falling off the balcony.
Jeff, we used to handle the phone systems in the Pier 66. and also in thre neighboring property the ft lauderdale grand.. Pier had some REALLY OLD infrastructure in it.. doesnt surprise me that it was gutted.. there was always water issues, electrical issues, phone cabling issues.. so at the very minimum a renovation was going to require them to go down to the interior studs anyway to replace the aged and dilapidated infrastructure within.. then couple it with hurricane damage (if i remember right it was already closed in 2019 when we were there to put a phone system in the embassy suites on 17th street.. I walked by the area then.. so to me it makes sense to completely gut it down and start over.. and they can create a new room Layout thats more modern, ADA compliant, etc along with fixing any water issues correctly..
I love that area I go to Kelly's landing all the time for seafood right across the street from that embassy suites you mentioned and also I had dinner tonight and I filmed this over at 15th street fisheries
Thanks Jeff for your update and video coverage I always enjoy it you do an excellent job describing stuff and getting great video footage as well as photos ❤ keep them coming 👍👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
YOUR VOICE. You look like someone with an ordinary midrange voice, but it’s actually very deep. I’m guessing that’s something you practiced over time .
Jeff, I can’t imagine that netting would do any good at catching falling debris. Given that it goes all along one balcony, I’m guessing the owners installed it to keep a small dog from sticking its head through the bars.
Yes it could be a lot of people had mentioned that as well but it was just too much of a coincidence that the net is right below the piano the patios that are correct so I'm thinking it's there to catch bouncing chunks of concrete
@@jeffostroff Well, it looks like a whole bunch of balconies show spalling/ paint bubbles/ other defects, so I wouldn't call it much of a coincidence that the nets are under one oft them. If you really were concerned about debris, you'd extend the net out half a foot or so beyond the balcony above, in order to catch debris that falls in a trajectory which is angled slightly away from the building (especially if you expect chunks to come loose right at the edge), or you'd hang the net right under the defect, in order to catch that stuff before it hits the next balcony.
Based on evidence of previous "fixes" implemented by the management of CTN and CTS, I would not put it past them to try and fix a major issue with a bandaid. Cue the corrugated plastic and repainting over the ceiling of the basement of CTS. All of the crappy work on the pool deck. This (to me) is a classic Champlain Tower bandaid.
@@styler19721 , well, perhaps before the CTS collapse, they would have just done "bandaid" fixes, but I believe that that horrible even scared them good and proper. If it didn't scare the holy hell out of them, I don't know what it takes.
My 5 pound Abused Texas Rescue Chihuahua would never squeeze through between balcony bars…she is smarter than that! She sticks by me like glue! I never worry about her on my balcony! Gladys, Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
Hey Jeff see if you could maybe do a video on the Western Hills Vidact in Cincinnati Ohio It is crumbling to the point where they have nets over the ceiling and on the pillars to catch the concrete . If you do decide to do a video on it I can send you pictures
Everything about this episode is sick and disappointing. And finally the "settlement". We see that $517,000,000 was assesed against the security company, although as far as I can tell, the security guard was one of the heros for alerting and assisting people during the collapse. What she did NOT do was sound the general alarm to awaken and evacuate the entire building. Now, really, which of us could understand that the whole frigging building was about to collapse and therefore sound the alarm? Almost nobody would take the risk of waking up an entire building full of people at 1:30 in the morning, because we know that if we did, people would be screaming bloody murder. And, anyway, the security company just happened to have a $500 million dollar policy, so that's where our system of "justice" goes fishing. It's just not ethical, it's not right. I can't see anywhere where the people who allowed extra concrete pavers, and sand, and marble and granite finishes, and palm trees, and giant concrete planters, and even a penthouse, all adding much weight and possibly destroying the proper pool deck drainage resulting in rusting rebar and concrete degradation, have any liability in this. But that is how American justice seems work folks.
I feel new additions of substantially heavier upgrades on 'rotting' concrete as Jeff pointed out w. bathroom lined in Marble a big factor.....Sheesh. Those unsuspecting victims. R.I.P.
Well, I agree with you. On the surface, any company that rolls over that easily for half-a-bil is kinda suspect. But maybe there was a compelling reason to do so, one that we'll never know. I don't think the security guard was a hero. I think she was stoned out of her mind, possibly asleep when the pool deck collapsed. She certainly sounds out of it on the 911 call. Can't even coherently relay the address. She hung up on 911 THREE TIMES before she managed to get it right... Who does that in an emergency??? As for your comment about pool deck drainage, I ask you, what drainage? The thing was built flat, a ticking time bomb, until it failed at the planter crack that opened up some two weeks earlier. The failure point of the retaining wall is nonsense, pure fantasy fabricated by some lawyer.
CTS sure us a lesson in what to look for if planning to buy a condo. How old is it? How close to the ocean? Climate (rain fall, northern freeze-thaw cycling)? Signs of poor condition, spalling, etc If one sees anything like CTS garage b4 the fall, keep on walking.
@@gladysobrien1055 true humidity & freeze/thaw are problems. Ocean front property get a double whammy. Higher humidity & salt misting. Chlorine accelerates corrosion of steel.
I know of local building in the downtown of Indianapolis, I personally saw extensive damage that reminds me starkly of the Champlain tower collapse, let me know if you’d like to know more, I have very little expertise in the field so please reach out
Hey Jeff- great video. Question- do we know if Champlaign Towers North residents have already been given any kind of assessments for all is this work? Hope they're not in the millions like the South Tower!
Thanks Jeff for another interesting video. I took a screen shot of your video looking into North Champlain Tower's Parking Garage; there are water stains all over the floor. Since so much evidence has come forth for possible causes for the South tower collapse, I'm surprised the North tower hasn't been closed yet. It appears (at least from Google Maps) to be the same design as the South tower, except the penthouse floor is slightly larger, placing more weight near the location of the South's collapse point. I guess they are waiting on the NIST report before proceeding.
It is basically the same design, built by the same greedy developer, but we're told it was maintained better, with much less concrete/corrosion damage. And it's 'on the radar' now, being actively remediated, so it has a good chance of being fixed. (Personally, i'd tear it down. I have an image of Nathan Reiber, laughing maniacally from hell, waiting for CTN to collapse as well...)
@@johnbergstrom2931 Hopefully CTN can be saved. It is amazing to me that a high-rise building built on the ocean shore, beach sand, enduring constant salt spray and direct impact from hurricanes, can last as long as they do.
Not just skinflints throwing up buildings everywhere, cities/townships NOT DOING INSPECTIONS due to being so overloaded with work. They trusted the developers to do them. Insanity.
@@johnbergstrom2931 Payoffs to the Miami Building and Zoning Dept were a way of life until after cat 5 Andrew destroyed South Dade in 1992. Chaimplain South went thru 3 non union GC's during the build, using Marielitos as laborers. Chaimplain North is not safe.
i don't know how to say this without sounding tasteless about the fatal losses in this incident, but your research and plausibility and ability to explain and all the logic (except i am sure this is a net to protect pets from falling downtsairs :D) are amazing. i don't know if i have missed any of your surfside videos. well, i probably did as of very random suggestions on yt - but you are awesome!!!
I'm sure most interested folks already know but the channel called Building Integrity has several excellent videos(explained in layman's terms as best he can) on the Champlain South Collapse. It's not my intention to step on toes by mentioning a different channel,I only wanted to inform anyone who managed to miss the info there.
After watching all of Jeff’s videos, I’m getting the feeling the primary blame for the collapse will be inadequate structural engineering in the area the collapse started.
No it was water intrusion from the neighboring building. It undermined the foundation & supports. If there had been no water leakage, there’d be no collapse
We just stayed at a small condo in Ft Walton Beach undergoing renovations. I am not sure how much structural vs cosmetic work they are doing, but your videos made me quite wary of the building.
I live in a 24 floor high rise just outside of Toronto and I put netting up after my 5th year due to pigeons pooping and nesting. Been here 25 years. Every 10 years a contractor inspects the balconies for wind,snow, rain damage. They repair them frequently. A portion of our monthly maintenance fees are put into an account for structural repairs to no extra cost to owners. We pay alot of fees in Toronto !! But, knowing what we know now, I have no problem paying extra monthly fees
Have the patios been tiled? I have heard that a lot of balconies in Florida were built without tile, but they have been tiled by current owners. This can cause two problems. One is that it adds a lot of weight that might not have been planned for. The other is that the tile can hold water that would normally have been drained off the balcony.
The Champlain tower's North condom association many years ago had forced everybody to remove tiles and all of their patios had been received and repainted.
Hi Jeff, great work on the Surfside condo collapse analysis. Fascinating stuff. I have to ask about your fascination with the water puddles though. I was sitting my car at work up here on the Space Coast waiting for it to cool down before driving off. When I did leave guess what I saw in the rear mirror: a big water puddle. Have you considered some of these puddles could simply be recent auto a/c condensation? In the shadow of a garage they might not evaporate for a while. It should be relatively easy to tell by location whether a puddle is a possible red flag or just a cold car air conditioner.
Just for your future videos, Those are not shoring poles, they are called "Shoring Jacks" ! These are the same ones used during the initial constriction. They are set three floors at a time while the concrete is being poured. When the concrete sets, the bottom jacks are pulled and moved to the top for the next pour.
Jeff have you ever visited the Mirage it was built around the same time that the Champlain towers were built and it’s from the same people they just named that one differently and it looks pretty similar I wonder how that one’s doing ?
@@jeffostroff It was built in the mid 90's at the same time the CT-East was built. The builders had split and made some changes to the design and layout. The Mirage was going to be a sister building to CT-East and called CT-West
Please keep a close eye on Pier 66 for me and please do updates on it for me. The building is my baby from the past and I don't want to see problems with the building in the future... When I was young I loved Pier 66 for the rotating lounge, glass elevator and waterfalls over the pool. I loved Pier 66 also because it looks like a HUGE robot and I LOVE electronics and technology. :)
It always baffles me how people in condos keep voting against increases and repairs when all it does it lead to huge special assessments and at worse life safety issues
Several years ago I was president of the board of a rather old condo in Florida. The Board authorized an engineering study which said significant repairs were needed. There were 2 ways to do this. One method was to fix the damage all at one time (which would ultimately save money) and would require an assessment of $12,000 per condo. The second method was to stretch the repairs over several years building by building (which would cost more due to material/labor increases. The board voted for the first solution because we believed our charge was to use monies wisely. A group of owners ginned up enough votes to get rid of me. So, I put my condo on the market and left.
If you lived there, you might understand, though they're wrong. I'm on my condo's Board and DREAD having to ask for an increase in HOA, which inflation is making necessary. But when you are starting to hit your reserve for stuff you know occurs every year and is budgeted in, because the amount budgeted is no longer enough, you know you are going to have to make the owners unhappy and yourself unhappy. Most owners never attend meetings and never look at the budget though it is published online at our site, yet they will scream about how you mismanage the money. Therefore, it is very painful, and all too many Boards of Directors will put off increasing the HOA even though everyone knows costs have inflated steeply in the past 2 years, because they know they will be hated.
A question Jeff, I have been watching all your videos on Champlain Tower, in the tourist video showing the entrance to the garage their is water coming from apparently a broken pipe that you or someone else said was a fire sprinkler line, why didn’t the fire alarm sound ? Isn’t a sprinkler flow alarm required ? I believe it took 7 minutes before the building fell after the pool deck fell, if their was a sprinkler flow alarm I think a lot more people would have had time to get out
cracking on the edges is normal maintenance of concrete see videos on maintenance and repair. rebar rusts causing damage at edges,, on decks its a normal repair.. there was a great video on that point.. by an engineer..
Q? @jeffostroff, I have a terrible time trying to SEE any details on the various floor plans and documents you show. I also have trouble FINDING your cursor in the videos. Is there some way to make things easier to SEE? I do enjoy your videos.
I was revisiting a video where Josh talked about foundations 1 year ago. So, apparently the so called Franki Piles were chosen which carry 150 Tons of Load … so my quick point here is there IS a specific weight limit load which the piles can hold and surely a content weight estimation vs number of piles would be calculated. I don t think the builder says … ? let s add an extra dozen Franki Piles to accomodate All that remodeling WEIGhT in 40+ years. ?
"Why don't they go down to the first floor?" What good would it do for them to go down to the first floor? The first floor isn't significantly stronger than the third floor and up so add load to the first floor all you do is fail the first floor. They would have to extend the shores down to the basement floor too. The damage to the balconies probably looks worse than it is but it will be expensive to repair, if not repaired it will get worse and eventually pieces of concrete will start falling off. This might undermine the guardrail attachment at the same time so don't walk out on the balcony and lean on the railing. And there could certainly be damage to the more major parts of the structure. We/you have preliminary structural drawings for that building, I don't think the final drawings have been made available to the public so we don't know if any changes were made before construction. I think it is unlikely but it is not impossible. If changes weren't made then they need to be doing more to that building than just adding a few shoring poles.
Yes the ICRI methods are what they have to use to repair the concrete and it usually stipulates that they have to chip away the car create a certain number of inches past where the damage stops, and then insert reinforcements, is reinforcements, and then reapply new concrete.
Hate to refer to a different person rather than Jeff, but this will explain what you're talking about re- probably looks worse than it is: th-cam.com/video/65vfMUP4-i8/w-d-xo.html
I'm worried for the one child whose parents separated and they shared custody , he was with his mother that night in the south building! Heartbreakingly,She did not make it but there son survived with 12 fractured vertebrae.. his dad still lives in the North part ...His dad said he was looking for other places to live at the beginning but decided his son needed some normalcy so they stayed!! I hope his dad see's this video
I know this is an older video, but given what we are finding out now about the construction errors of the building that went down, how can they be sure that this one doesn't have the same exact issues with the rebarb mistakes? Wouldn't that put this building at risk? Maybe not today, but what about in the near future?
Just watching this...2August 22...Since you seem to have the blue prints for the condo, answer a question please...are all the kitchens and bathrooms sharing a common water wall? Just thinking all the concentrated weight in one spot, stacked, and with remodels on each floor in the same area might be a problem?
The netting does not look like it would catch anything from above. It more looks like something to keep the lap dogs and cats from falling off the balconies.
Wow, even if you don't know about the other building this looks like extremely expensive repairs are going to be required. How does the pool deck and planters compare with Champlain South? I wonder what work is going to be required as a result of the Champlain South collapse. Will they increase resistance to punch through ? Will they do anything to separate the pool deck structure from the building structure? Will the pool deck be completely replaced for water proofing and weight reduction? I don't know how much this kind of thing is going to cost, but I suspect that the owners will be more open to the repairs than they were in Champlain tower south.
All older buildings have problems with balconies. Balcony problems do not pull down the rest of the building like a pancaked detonation as if it was razed.
So glad I was able to sell my unit 3 months before the sisster building collapsed. I think the nets are for the dogs so they don’t fall through the railings.
To be clear, if someone knocked on my door and said they are putting netting around my balcony to keep falling debris from hurting someone... I would just hand them the keys and say adios. But honestly, I would have been gone the same day the south tower fell.
I have a deep suspiscion that way less rebar was used in the structure than was specified and/or approved. Was there an examination of columns to see what was actually there, or was it all sort of trucked out quickly? It seems that would be a huge detail in any lawsuits. The reason that I ask is that if it were a case of inadequate materials in the first collapse, would it be possible to X-ray those columns to in the still standing towers to see if they were up to the intended specs? Were the same engineers and contractors used, ditto, were they signed off on by the same inspectors. I would be very nervous about any cases where the same parties were involved.
Thanks Jeff. Looks like membrane is shot. Maybe too late to fix. If I lived there I think I would sell. Much better than getting pancaked in middle of night.
@@michaelbigelow3255 Well, if you were an investor who was confident that the building was going to be fixed, you could buy at 25% below market, rent out the unit (surely someone would willingly take the risk in order to live on the beach) and then sell after the building is recertified. Or keep renting to a tenant. Either way, it's hundreds of thousands in free money... (Assuming they can fix this dogsh*t of a building)
@@michaelbigelow3255 True, but it's been over a year since CTS collapsed. If CTN was really at risk, it would have been condemned last year. It would be a speculative gamble, but some investors take the risk and make big-time money.
@@johnbergstrom2931 only 25% 💵less in purchase 💵price? That may not be enough 💵to cover the Special Assessments that will be needed and charged for the rebuilding and construction upgrades and improvements! Prices should fall by at least half….then it MAY be worth 💵the financial risk! But would the price still be a bargain? The stigma and reputation is going to last decades! 💵 My opinion! Retired residential real estate appraiser. Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
@@gladysobrien1055 Well, the 25% reduction was put forth by another poster. I was speaking hypothetically. Even if money was no object, I wouldn't buy a unit in that building.
Once again, Surfside isn’t a suburb of North Miami Beach, it is it’s own municipality. North Miami Beach is a separate municipality which is 100% on the mainland and unconnected to the cities of Miami Beach or Surfside.
That is correct but for people that are watching from around the around the world it's important it's important to sort of address where your surf side is located it is a suburb of miami but it's really closer to Miami Beach cause they bore to each other
No way I'd still be living in those North Towers! Great video as always Jeff. Do you think they will be 100% honest with the reasoning of the collapse?
Very dry material and you've managed to make this content watchable for someone who's more interested in sustainable development. This kind of structure makes me feel claustrophobic. And after some of your videos ....I'm convinced old buildings turned into condos are not good investments ...esp in areas thst might be prone to storms, humidity, structural corrosion/damanages, and high volume of tourism/flux of visitors. Also didn't know I needed the info.
If the Association responsible for CTN hasn't immediately ordered the removal of all and any paving slabs/tiles/marble from all of the balcony floors then this damage is going to get worse.
You got that right nowhere to go but yet you can't sell that's the position that a lot of people were left in during the last economic downturn in 2008 in 2009, people were getting foreclosed on and they couldn't even sell their properties..
The scary thing is Jeff, the kid that survived the Champlain South collapse but his mother died? His dad lives on that side of the North building that has those cracks I think. I know his Dad and now the kid live there. I remember seeing footage from the dad showing him on like the 4th to 6th floor at the edge looking down the road to the South collapse. The kid has major PTSD and I couldn't imagine being in an identical building
Those 2 must really be freaking out over this man I'm not sure I would want to be there
footage?
@@Capecodham th-cam.com/video/icTpUlleb44/w-d-xo.html
m.th-cam.com/video/puRjH5NAZCM/w-d-xo.html
they finally did move out and get a house. He freaks at thunder storms though.
Oh my Goodness. . .this is still frightening. I still wouldn't want to live in that building. Sad. 🌼
It's safe, as long as you don't go out on the patio!
@@jeffostroff “Safe?”😳
Most people are stuck at CTN. Their units are virtually worthless until the building is fixed and declared safe.
Thanks for the heads up hopefully they can repair the building , nice to see Pier 66 getting a revamp too
@@jeffostroff they should demolish all of their balconies and rebuild them. They seem like they are going to collapse themselves.
Ever since Champlain Towers South collapsed last year I've been watching your videos and learning a lot about structural problems. I'd be afraid to be in that building right now. Plus every time I go into a building especially in the parking garage below I find myself looking up at the ceiling.
I lived in a building in Hackensack, New Jersey at 300 Prospect Avenue and used to see shoring poles in the garage and used to feel the garage vibrate and I swore there was going to be a collapse. Lo and behold less than 5 years after moving out the whole garage collapsed.
Gah!! So glad you escaped in time, and hope no one was injured.
@@chicagonorthcoast Gah??? never heard that one but it is expressive.
One fact I would like to bring up.i worked for a builder called Winchester Homes.i was out on the job sight one day and watched the concrete company pour three homes foundation walls.Back then about 40,000.00 each.the superintendent was walking around and on the ground was the order for concrete.He picked it up and looked at it.All I saw looking at him he was Hot.The order showed that the concrete company ordered 2500 psi.concrete.The contract called for 3500 psi.That day he ordered the concrete company to remove all the walls and foundations and replace everything with 3500 psi concrete or he would and back charge the company for cost.They toe down all walls ,and foster ,one weeks work.Quality company"""!!!
“He picked it up and looked at it. All I saw looking at him he was Hot.”. WHAT? If this is english I have no idea what it means
.
@@electrictroy2010 He's mad.""
@@electrictroy2010 He meant 'fuming'
There are test cylinders that were required by law to be poured along with every batch of concrete and these were numbered and recorded and saved this information will verify & confirm…What happened
Many times things like that would just be overlooked especially , 4- decades ago
I don’t look at buildings the same way anymore. Thank you.
Yes, at last most people will do the same.
I have a thought about the netting on the balconies. The people who live there might be trying to keep small cats or dogs or perhaps even small children from being able to squeeze through the bars and fall off of the balcony. I know I'd do something to protect my cats from going through those bars if I had similar ones on my patio. I opted to keep my cats on leashes back when I had a patio like that but my apartment was also on the ground floor. I wasn't worried about them falling, but about them running into the busy street.
I never never ever thought I would like engineering stuff. I am absolutely fascinated by your material and coverage of the Champlain towers stuff you put out Jeff. Very very bright guy to watch. And OMG have I learned a lot from you!!!! Thank you!!!
It's riveting.
Thank you again, Jeff! Your selfless compassion towards sharing excellent information to others is top shelf! Keep up the great technical info share.
Thanks so much Gordon I am glad you are able to see the video this evening
I bet people who try and sell here aren't going to be experiencing people OVER bidding the asking price :) Maybe they are offering 90 day warranties that the patio or building won't collapse during that time but you are on your own after that :)
I’m glad the building is getting attention for these problems. I’m disturbed how far these problems get before they get attention. Is this a result of the sister building collapsing and they finally started scrutinize this one? I certainly would not feel good being an owner one of those units at this point in time.
After the sister building collapsed attention was immediately turned to this building because they knew it was the sister building. But they have a world class structural engineer there right now who is running things and I have full confidence in his ability.
@@jeffostroff Nice. I don't have much confidence in Morabito. Josh Porter on the other hand... no comparison.
@@brnmcc01 I am plenty of confidence and morapito I think he had a really excellent plan drawn up for what he was going to do with the building I do plan a video on that soon
@@brnmcc01 Morabito was ready to go, ready to save CTS. The condo board was dragging its feet with the money. They dicked around for 3 years...
@@johnbergstrom2931 You’re right, and then Covid happened which made the CTS assoc drag their feet even harder. But they had to pay up as well, just not as much as Securitas.
Man, how could anyone living there have a peaceful night's sleep? Probably nothing going to happen but man I don't think I'd be able to risk that.
I'm sure they know more than we know as I'm pretty sure they likely get updates from the engineer the engineer has to what is going on and if he says the building is not in danger of collapsing then I believe him, however I still won't go animals patio decks. It's pretty scary to think about it though because last September I toward one of the condo units in that building and was out on the patio
I live around the corner from these buildings and I wouldn’t be able to sleep comfortably in the sister buildings. Miami is SO corrupt, and money is valued over lives, and I highly doubt those sister buildings are safe.
I was thinking the same thing
@@Redslayer86 You get used to it after a while
Well if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars in life earnings invested in a condo in CTN, you're not just going to walk away from that. And since no one is really interested in buying at CTN right now, residents are stuck. Under those circumstances, the brain is very good at rationalizing away (legitimate) concerns over safety.
They have taken precautions. There are now signs warning residents not to slam their patio doors to prevent parts of the patios from falling off.
Yikes, that is cary
Omg they are very brave living in that building after everything that has happened. I doubt if the people could sell there condos because who would truly buy them.
I’d move into a small cheap apartment, rather than live in a building that shows obvious signs of decay
That’s uh…reassuring
That is very scary indeed.
Wow! Hey Jeff, I sat on a Condo Board Of Directors from (2009 to 2014) of a river front 1966 built condo building in Windsor, Canada🇨🇦. (Windsor is across the river from Detroit)
The balconies of this building had already been completely rebuilt before I purchased three condos in the building. The Special Assessment cost to each home owner was $10,000.00 per balcony. End units floor plans had two balconies per unit.
So, I can relate to this edition of your expert observations. It is all so very interesting.
I have been binge watching (from time to time) all your videos about the Champlain Condos since the sad collapse catastrophe. Praying that all older building can survive the stress test of recertification! Forget bank stress tests…condo recertification is far more important!
Thank you for sharing your valuable expertise and knowledge. Your videos should be required viewing for all those everyday people who voluntarily sit on the Board of Directors of all condo buildings EVERY WHERE.
Gladys, Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
Sold when majority of tenants outright refused special assessment to replace oldest still operating elevators in the city of Denver. Never again
@@WN_Byers Interesting! Our old elevators broke down about twice a month. We were on service contract and they were repaired.
We always had the SAME repair man mid week. But ONCE, it broke down on a Saturday. We called for service…a DIFFERENT SERVICE man was sent. Being a member of the board of directors, I decided to speak to him. I found out “that basically our elevators were fine…what they needed was an internal upgrade tune-up” At LESS THAN 1/20th the cost of replacement. There is ho reason to change the carriage” I was told! Until then the property manager was pushing for completely new elevators. I delightfully reported back to the other members of the board about what I had learned to great sighs of relief!
Same with home furnaces…just upgrade or replace the heating unit inside…the entire furnace housing does not need replacing!
After what happened to the neighbouring block and looking at the pictures of the balconies on this building. I wouldn't want to stay there at all. Really so sad for those who lost their lives...🙏❤🇬🇧
Something I was told by a contractor 40 years ago. He predicted exactly what is going on now. Condos on the ocean there, some OTHER builders used beach sand in the concrete to save money, The salt in the sand is causing corrosion and expansion of the rebar. That was told to me by someone who was a concrete contractor in another state and a concrete tester/inspector.
It really needs water to cause the corrosion
@@jeffostroff so, I suppose you know more than the man who owned a concrete company and was a state inspector. Where did you get your education? You think there were no leaks in the buildings? How about the spalling concrete? Always some genius who knows more than the experts did.
@@jeffostroff also I suggest you take about 60 seconds and search concrete failure rusty rebar. How do people just post their insane ideas as FACTS? I f you don't know, maybe you should search before you comment. If people did it might do a lot to stop the spread of ignorance in this country. I cited an authority I knew personally, you just post WHAT YOU THOUGHT. It might help you in life to realize you do not know everything about everything and before you attempt to correct others, you just might know the FACTS before you offer your 'wisdom'.
Jeff, people who live in hi-rises often put nets and chicken wire on their balconies so their pets don't fall off. This is very common in NYC and northern NJ.
That's what I thought cats and small dogs
After the other tower had collapsed, I can't see why anyone would still want to be living in this one...the engineer who approved those plans back in the day should've NEVER approved that design. But hey it may have fit the Bldg code at that time. Smh such devastation 🙏🏻.
I still firmly believe that the added penthouse was a huge contributing factor. To my understanding NOTHING was changed in the plans to account for the added weight, and that the building was pretty close to maximum capacity before the addition of the penthouse.
I'd argue that CTN and CTE are probably the safest buildings in Miami right now due to all eyes being on them.
a big difference is that this condo seems to have a more compotent board then south did. Note i know they got a better board for south but they got in too late. this board seems more ontop of it.
@@Helladamnleet and then all the added weight from all the updates owners did with updating their homes. Jeff did a great job with a video on that. So freaking sad, I can't imagine the ppl that were awake & heard as well as seen their building falling...
@@Helladamnleet Well, attention is not the type of structural reinforcement that could compensate engineering errors and poor quality, combined with overloading, lack of maintenance and aging.
Yeah, there's nothing that could make me choose to remain living in any of the Champlain Towers buildings after the collapse of the south tower, especially knowing they were constructed using the same structural blueprint designs. I don't care if someone came in, inspected the entire property, and said it was the most structurally sound building they'd ever stepped foot in, I'd always have that fear eating away at me and I surely wouldn't be able to sleep at night. This building here was maintained better, doesn't have the added penthouse weight, and so on, but it all comes down to the fact that it's identical sister tower collapsed. That alone is enough to make me refuse to live there. Unfortunately, I would imagine these condos aren't that easy to sell now, all things considered, and will ultimately sell for far less than they would have before the south tower collapsed.
Wow Jeff, you certainly have an eagle eye. The Miami Herald should give you an award as I'm sure they're digging your content!
On a somewhat related note, Did we ever figure out why Securitas settled for half a bil? What would their culpability be? Alarms not going off? Not reporting creaks/cracks/groans weeks up to the collapse? Of all the settlements this seems the most confounding to me.
I heard that during depositions the security guard had said something about that they were never trained on certain operations of the fire alarms but anyway the security company had backing by a whole bunch of insurers and so they all decided to just settle even though they weren't even named as a defendant yet at that time.
@@jeffostroff Even if that's the case, why over 500 million? They could have just put up say like 35 million, and called it good, since they weren't directly sued. How these generally work is there is a total sum, and then all the defendants pay a portion based on their portion of fault. I can't see any way to pin nearly 50% of the fault of the collapse and resulting tort claims on Securitas. The lawyers for the plaintiffs found many faults, from Morabito to 87 Park, there was plenty of blame to go around. Maybe they were thinking if they had ordered an evacuation faster, more lives could be saved? I kind of doubt this, there is no possible way one security guard working alone at night would have had any time to go door to door, trying to wake people up at 1am and telling them to get out. She tried to do that, and called 911. There's 911 call records of that and the alarm company calling it in well before the final collapse. Takes a lot longer to get that many people up, dressed, and get out of the building, even if you called in every possible spare law enforcement to come and order people to get out. Someone could do a study on this and say start from when the tourist heard that crash from the parking garage, and guesstimate how many people could they have evacuated before the building collapsed. I'd be willing to put money on not very many. Keep in mind people generally don't want to get out of bed at 1am, and leave their valuables and pets behind, and run out into the street partially clothed or naked. Seen so many videos of a plane crash and the damn planes wings are on fire, and people are still opening the overhead bins to grab their laptop etc, and jumping down the slides carrying a whole bunch of stuff. It's just not realistic to evacuate that big of a building in 10 minutes.
@@jeffostroff As always thanks again for the great info/updates!
@@brnmcc01 My theory is that she was stoned out of her mind and maybe fast asleep when the pool deck collapsed. Listen to her 911 calls. She barely even knows the address of the property. Totally incoherent.
Even 10+ minutes after the collapse she told the cops, "I don't even know what's going on!" and "I didn't know we had earthquakes in Florida!" She never bothered to get off her ass, grab a flashlight and see for herself the pool deck damage when the trouble first started, maybe try to understand the emergency that was part of her job to handle. Indicators were there even earlier when the pool deck rebar was snapping prior to collapse.
Impaired pothead = $ 517.5 mil.
(But I agree with you. If I was the CEO of Securitas, no way in hell I would roll over for that amount of money, put a big black stain on my company.)
@@johnbergstrom2931 You need to do a little more research. Your theory is very incorrect. She didn't know the address because she had just been assigned to that building. When she first heard noises, she thought it was the elevator. When it became apparent that that wasn't the case, she pulled the fire alarm in the lobby (proven by the alarm system records) and then began calling residents one by one to tell them to evacuate. Unfortunately, it was too late. As for her telling police she had no idea what was going on, the police AND firefighters can also be heard saying THEY don't know what's going on and even one stated "it's not a collapse" before realizing what happened. No one knew what was going on. And she is one of MANY people interviewed about the collapse that said they didn't think Florida has earthquakes.
I remember visiting one of my mom’s friends in a condo and she had similar nets on her balcony too. She used it to prevent her two tiny dogs from falling 9 floors. Maybe that’s the same thing here? But it does look suspicious given all the cracking…
It could be for either one
I could see the net trying to keep my dog safe but I'd put it everywhere, not just in a corner.
Just fantastic as always Jeff! These things you pointed out are truly chilling. Thank you for doing these!
Glad to always be they were the latest info thanks for watching
Hi Jeff, I have a question. When the south building collapsed, and while they demo'ed the remainder of the building, could any of the vibrations from the collapse cause damage to the sister building or to any building in close proximity for that matter. I am just curious 🤔 if any structures could handle that amount of force from the collapse and triggered explosives. Thanks for always keeping us up to date. I truly appreciate you and everything you have done covering this situation. God bless these lost souls and I still pray for comfort for their families and friends.
Don't really know the answer to that but I do know that they've been employed in buildings for decades and to my knowledge it has not caused any problems to adjacent buildings before
There isn't really Force being transferred to the other building when you implode. You have vibration for a few seconds. Maybe a bit of wind load?
@@jeffostroff there really isn't that much force being applied. The force of the implosion is on the demolition building. You might have some vibration from the falling debris? You might have some additional wind loading again from the building falling? But nothing that would significantly do anything. The blast effects are not outward.
The ground wave is akin to an earthquake. The high moisture, sandy soil acts like water as the wave propagates outward. The amplitude of the wave lifts and then drops nearby structures.
I friggin love that you searched out the scoop on that black yacht. Awesome! 😆 I totally would have done the same thing.
Yes every big yacht that shows up there I like to run their names when I'm there. What time we saw Steven Spielberg's 200 plus long foot yacht
@@jeffostroff did you ever see Bill Wurtz’s Blackhawk? The hockey team. The guys nickname was Dollar Bill and if you walked on to his yacht it was like walking into a time warp from 1963. Used to have it brought up to Chicago in the summers and then floated back down to Florida in the winter.
Jeff, As I remember, I was exposed to your "deal" videos before the Champlain Towers collapse. I thought you wee just a "deal guy". Then I started following your engineering analysis videos. I'm drawn to your observations like a moth to fire. Thank you for all the effort you put into these follow up posts.
Thanks so much Keith and yes I'm glad you have been around before that to see all the great deals as well. Being an engineer I have a lot of experience in different facets of construction as I buy in flip condos condos and deal with a lot of tools and so going live at home depot's in Lowe's in Costco over the last few years was pretty much 2nd nature for me.
I became a sub via reverse, Keith. Funny how people come together thru different Avenues. Whoa....that bubble!!!
@@terywetherlow7970 Yes originally put the channel up to show videos on construction and remodeling and then one day decided since I spent so much time in Lowe's in home depot that I would flip on the livestream livestream start showing the deals in there
@@jeffostroff Yes i too love the deals you show. I have watched ur reviews & take heed to what u say. Not like i buy big guy stuff....i am the tiny gal asking for info in the aisles and annoying daylights out of grumpy sales men😂 they hate making keys.....i would love that part. Oh and paint....
@@terywetherlow7970 The bubble!
Imagine the damage that can't be seen!
Exactly Grant! The latent damage is the one that does all the damage. Just like a Champlain to ourselves I'm sure had they seen what was really going on inside the concrete that would have evacuated the building.
It's going to be a race against time to keep this building standing.
@@mariemccann5895 It's a shame they weren't further along on the other building maybe they would have caught some of that damage in time
So happy to see a new video! Please keep them coming. Ooooh those cracks... Well spotted Jeff. Did you happen to see the new hallway footage of the Champlain Towers South collapse?
Yes I saw that new hallway footage it was completely useless it was basically a still picture with a sound on the background
@@jeffostroff - what bugs me is people think that these places are an apartment complex, and the people there have absolutely nothing to do with how the building is maintained...
@@jeffostroff Yeah I agree. Nothing in the video moves which is very odd (also the lights stay on) but I'd like to believe that the audio we hear is real. One can hear how the building slowly but surely leans and creaks and then there's a mighty rip and roar to the ground.
Great video Jeff. I don't know how anyone could live in the CTN building.
I'm learning so much about architectural engineering. Keep these vids coming. 👍
The engineers are telling them so far it's stable and remember it's a couple of years younger than the Champlain tower Sounds so the way I see it they have 2 more years before they have to worry about collapse
In Springfield IL we had a hotel at 1st and Adams close, took out everything interior, and took off the walls, leaving just bare concrete floors, and rebuild from that, about 10 years ago. No tornado or storm damages or complaints from people who stayed there.
Love your videos Jeff. But I suspect THAT balcony netting on the CT North 6th floor balcony you zoomed in on is not to protect from falling debris. I say that because the way it is placed it would not protect from falling debris. It would usually be suspended from above over the balcony below.
I suspect that netting is to protect some little dog or cat from falling off the balcony.
Back when the spacing on hand rail were six inches and now they are four inches to code
Jeff, we used to handle the phone systems in the Pier 66. and also in thre neighboring property the ft lauderdale grand.. Pier had some REALLY OLD infrastructure in it.. doesnt surprise me that it was gutted.. there was always water issues, electrical issues, phone cabling issues.. so at the very minimum a renovation was going to require them to go down to the interior studs anyway to replace the aged and dilapidated infrastructure within.. then couple it with hurricane damage (if i remember right it was already closed in 2019 when we were there to put a phone system in the embassy suites on 17th street.. I walked by the area then.. so to me it makes sense to completely gut it down and start over.. and they can create a new room Layout thats more modern, ADA compliant, etc along with fixing any water issues correctly..
I love that area I go to Kelly's landing all the time for seafood right across the street from that embassy suites you mentioned and also I had dinner tonight and I filmed this over at 15th street fisheries
Thanks Jeff for your update and video coverage I always enjoy it you do an excellent job describing stuff and getting great video footage as well as photos ❤ keep them coming 👍👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
I appreciate that Neroli!
another super presentation by Jeff.I would be paranoid as hell living in the building.
Come on do let's go hang out down there we'll have smores
YOUR VOICE. You look like someone with an ordinary midrange voice, but it’s actually very deep. I’m guessing that’s something you practiced over time
.
Jeff, I can’t imagine that netting would do any good at catching falling debris. Given that it goes all along one balcony, I’m guessing the owners installed it to keep a small dog from sticking its head through the bars.
Yes it could be a lot of people had mentioned that as well but it was just too much of a coincidence that the net is right below the piano the patios that are correct so I'm thinking it's there to catch bouncing chunks of concrete
@@jeffostroff Well, it looks like a whole bunch of balconies show spalling/ paint bubbles/ other defects, so I wouldn't call it much of a coincidence that the nets are under one oft them.
If you really were concerned about debris, you'd extend the net out half a foot or so beyond the balcony above, in order to catch debris that falls in a trajectory which is angled slightly away from the building (especially if you expect chunks to come loose right at the edge), or you'd hang the net right under the defect, in order to catch that stuff before it hits the next balcony.
Based on evidence of previous "fixes" implemented by the management of CTN and CTS, I would not put it past them to try and fix a major issue with a bandaid. Cue the corrugated plastic and repainting over the ceiling of the basement of CTS. All of the crappy work on the pool deck. This (to me) is a classic Champlain Tower bandaid.
@@styler19721 , well, perhaps before the CTS collapse, they would have just done "bandaid" fixes, but I believe that that horrible even scared them good and proper. If it didn't scare the holy hell out of them, I don't know what it takes.
Wow I would be scared to be in that place at all. Thanks for the video.
Glad to upload the videos that everybody likes thanks for watching shiela
Those cracks are telling of a big issue. Am sure the residents are fearful of this building
I need to find out how many have left the building and don't want to return until it's safe
@@jeffostroff it seems like too big of a gamble. They’re almost identical buildings.
I wonder if the netting was put up by owners who have small dogs since they have a tendency to squeeze through those wide rails.
could be, but they are right under the crumbling patios, so who knows
My 5 pound Abused Texas Rescue Chihuahua would never squeeze through between balcony bars…she is smarter than that! She sticks by me like glue!
I never worry about her on my balcony!
Gladys, Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
Hello 👋. Thank you for the update. I can't believe the tower is not safe . Don't go to the condo please be careful please 🙏👈
I dare you to go stand below those patio decks!
Well, it might not be in danger of collapse, but 'safe' it is not.
Hey Jeff see if you could maybe do a video on the Western Hills Vidact in Cincinnati Ohio It is crumbling to the point where they have nets over the ceiling and on the pillars to catch the concrete . If you do decide to do a video on it I can send you pictures
Everything about this episode is sick and disappointing. And finally the "settlement". We see that $517,000,000 was assesed against the security company, although as far as I can tell, the security guard was one of the heros for alerting and assisting people during the collapse. What she did NOT do was sound the general alarm to awaken and evacuate the entire building. Now, really, which of us could understand that the whole frigging building was about to collapse and therefore sound the alarm? Almost nobody would take the risk of waking up an entire building full of people at 1:30 in the morning, because we know that if we did, people would be screaming bloody murder. And, anyway, the security company just happened to have a $500 million dollar policy, so that's where our system of "justice" goes fishing. It's just not ethical, it's not right. I can't see anywhere where the people who allowed extra concrete pavers, and sand, and marble and granite finishes, and palm trees, and giant concrete planters, and even a penthouse, all adding much weight and possibly destroying the proper pool deck drainage resulting in rusting rebar and concrete degradation, have any liability in this. But that is how American justice seems work folks.
I feel new additions of substantially heavier upgrades on 'rotting' concrete as Jeff pointed out w. bathroom lined in Marble a big factor.....Sheesh. Those unsuspecting victims. R.I.P.
Well, I agree with you. On the surface, any company that rolls over that easily for half-a-bil is kinda suspect. But maybe there was a compelling reason to do so, one that we'll never know. I don't think the security guard was a hero. I think she was stoned out of her mind, possibly asleep when the pool deck collapsed. She certainly sounds out of it on the 911 call. Can't even coherently relay the address. She hung up on 911 THREE TIMES before she managed to get it right... Who does that in an emergency???
As for your comment about pool deck drainage, I ask you, what drainage? The thing was built flat, a ticking time bomb, until it failed at the planter crack that opened up some two weeks earlier. The failure point of the retaining wall is nonsense, pure fantasy fabricated by some lawyer.
I love updates on this matter. This content is what made me subscribe. Thanks for the update. Much love, be safe and God bless you and yours!
Welcome aboard!
Interesting stuff Jeff! Thank you!
Thanks I'm glad you liked it
Thanks Jeff for your continuing updates! I can easily hit the LIKE as I begin!! Great job... again. As usual!!
Thank you so much GE glad you liked it
They’ll never sell their units. These poor victims ate trapped physically and financially.
CTS sure us a lesson in what to look for if planning to buy a condo. How old is it? How close to the ocean? Climate (rain fall, northern freeze-thaw cycling)? Signs of poor condition, spalling, etc If one sees anything like CTS garage b4 the fall, keep on walking.
Condos do not have to be close to the ocean! Any humid climate with high heat 90’s+F and -40F degree winters will do! Plus age. Age is a killer.
@@gladysobrien1055 true humidity & freeze/thaw are problems. Ocean front property get a double whammy. Higher humidity & salt misting. Chlorine accelerates corrosion of steel.
Don't walk, RUN AWAY from this building! It's about to collapse. Very scary.
Just a note: I think that Pier 66 building is a cool looking design.
It is a really cool futuristic design I believe by the scene designers that did the Las Vegas sign that iconic sign from way back when
I know of local building in the downtown of Indianapolis, I personally saw extensive damage that reminds me starkly of the Champlain tower collapse, let me know if you’d like to know more, I have very little expertise in the field so please reach out
Wow, the damage as it is right now would have me selling my condo if I lived there!
Can't sell something no one wants to buy......
@@tinajones3990 True. Lots of people are now worried about older condo buildings collapsing down there. What a crapshoot.
Hey Jeff- great video. Question- do we know if Champlaign Towers North residents have already been given any kind of assessments for all is this work? Hope they're not in the millions like the South Tower!
Thanks Jeff for another interesting video. I took a screen shot of your video looking into North Champlain Tower's Parking Garage; there are water stains all over the floor. Since so much evidence has come forth for possible causes for the South tower collapse, I'm surprised the North tower hasn't been closed yet. It appears (at least from Google Maps) to be the same design as the South tower, except the penthouse floor is slightly larger, placing more weight near the location of the South's collapse point. I guess they are waiting on the NIST report before proceeding.
It is basically the same design, built by the same greedy developer, but we're told it was maintained better, with much less concrete/corrosion damage. And it's 'on the radar' now, being actively remediated, so it has a good chance of being fixed.
(Personally, i'd tear it down. I have an image of Nathan Reiber, laughing maniacally from hell, waiting for CTN to collapse as well...)
@@johnbergstrom2931 Hopefully CTN can be saved. It is amazing to me that a high-rise building built on the ocean shore, beach sand, enduring constant salt spray and direct impact from hurricanes, can last as long as they do.
Yes it’s most definitely the same design, except the roof are diffrent
Excellent review. 1970's really had people cutting costs and trying overly 'modern' techniques of building....
Not just skinflints throwing up buildings everywhere, cities/townships NOT DOING INSPECTIONS due to being so overloaded with work. They trusted the developers to do them. Insanity.
@@johnbergstrom2931 Payoffs to the Miami Building and Zoning Dept were a way of life until after cat 5 Andrew destroyed South Dade in 1992. Chaimplain South went thru 3 non union GC's during the build, using Marielitos as laborers. Chaimplain North is not safe.
i don't know how to say this without sounding tasteless about the fatal losses in this incident, but your research and plausibility and ability to explain and all the logic (except i am sure this is a net to protect pets from falling downtsairs :D) are amazing. i don't know if i have missed any of your surfside videos. well, i probably did as of very random suggestions on yt - but you are awesome!!!
Thanks so much Kiwi!
I'm sure most interested folks already know but the channel called Building Integrity has several excellent videos(explained in layman's terms as best he can) on the Champlain South Collapse. It's not my intention to step on toes by mentioning a different channel,I only wanted to inform anyone who managed to miss the info there.
Jeff mentions Josh a number of times himself
After watching all of Jeff’s videos, I’m getting the feeling the primary blame for the collapse will be inadequate structural engineering in the area the collapse started.
No it was water intrusion from the neighboring building. It undermined the foundation & supports. If there had been no water leakage, there’d be no collapse
Plus he SAYS in this video that the engineers did a good design job.
Thanks for another informative update........ I hope the other condos get the attention they need to remain standing......
Great video. I only have one question... Why the hell is there a 'c' in 'yacht' ????
It should be spelled yat
We just stayed at a small condo in Ft Walton Beach undergoing renovations. I am not sure how much structural vs cosmetic work they are doing, but your videos made me quite wary of the building.
I live in a 24 floor high rise just outside of Toronto and I put netting up after my 5th year due to pigeons pooping and nesting. Been here 25 years. Every 10 years a contractor inspects the balconies for wind,snow, rain damage. They repair them frequently. A portion of our monthly maintenance fees are put into an account for structural repairs to no extra cost to owners. We pay alot of fees in Toronto !! But, knowing what we know now, I have no problem paying extra monthly fees
Have the patios been tiled? I have heard that a lot of balconies in Florida were built without tile, but they have been tiled by current owners. This can cause two problems. One is that it adds a lot of weight that might not have been planned for. The other is that the tile can hold water that would normally have been drained off the balcony.
The Champlain tower's North condom association many years ago had forced everybody to remove tiles and all of their patios had been received and repainted.
Still LOVE your investigative reporting 🇨🇦♥️
Can you measure the depth of the stepdown beam under the rear wall where the patio starts?
It changed from 2-6 to 1-6 in CTS.
Yes it did, a lot of people focused on that
Hi Jeff, great work on the Surfside condo collapse analysis. Fascinating stuff. I have to ask about your fascination with the water puddles though.
I was sitting my car at work up here on the Space Coast waiting for it to cool down before driving off. When I did leave guess what I saw in the rear mirror: a big water puddle. Have you considered some of these puddles could simply be recent auto a/c condensation? In the shadow of a garage they might not evaporate for a while.
It should be relatively easy to tell by location whether a puddle is a possible red flag or just a cold car air conditioner.
Yes we never know for sure, but AC condensation does not leave huge puddles
Just for your future videos, Those are not shoring poles, they are called "Shoring Jacks" ! These are the same ones used during the initial constriction. They are set three floors at a time while the concrete is being poured. When the concrete sets, the bottom jacks are pulled and moved to the top for the next pour.
I was hoping aVe would of done a video on this. This was a great video!
So you "own" a condo? How awesome! Guess what? You also own all the problems of the building that condo is in. How wonderful for you!
Jeff have you ever visited the Mirage it was built around the same time that the Champlain towers were built and it’s from the same people they just named that one differently and it looks pretty similar I wonder how that one’s doing ?
I have heard about it but have not seen it maybe next time I'm down there I'll look for it
@@jeffostroff It was built in the mid 90's at the same time the CT-East was built.
The builders had split and made some changes to the design and layout.
The Mirage was going to be a sister building to CT-East and called CT-West
Please keep a close eye on Pier 66 for me and please do updates on it for me. The building is my baby from the past and I don't want to see problems with the building in the future... When I was young I loved Pier 66 for the rotating lounge, glass elevator and waterfalls over the pool. I loved Pier 66 also because it looks like a HUGE robot and I LOVE electronics and technology. :)
Yes I plan to be driving by fairly often to monitor the progress
When I was in high school, we had homecoming and other festivities there.
Wow, I am surprised people love to pay tons of money to live in crappy dangerous condos on the beach. Wow.
It always baffles me how people in condos keep voting against increases and repairs when all it does it lead to huge special assessments and at worse life safety issues
Several years ago I was president of the board of a rather old condo in Florida. The Board authorized an engineering study which said significant repairs were needed. There were 2 ways to do this. One method was to fix the damage all at one time (which would ultimately save money) and would require an assessment of $12,000 per condo. The second method was to stretch the repairs over several years building by building (which would cost more due to material/labor increases. The board voted for the first solution because we believed our charge was to use monies wisely. A group of owners ginned up enough votes to get rid of me. So, I put my condo on the market and left.
If you lived there, you might understand, though they're wrong. I'm on my condo's Board and DREAD having to ask for an increase in HOA, which inflation is making necessary. But when you are starting to hit your reserve for stuff you know occurs every year and is budgeted in, because the amount budgeted is no longer enough, you know you are going to have to make the owners unhappy and yourself unhappy. Most owners never attend meetings and never look at the budget though it is published online at our site, yet they will scream about how you mismanage the money. Therefore, it is very painful, and all too many Boards of Directors will put off increasing the HOA even though everyone knows costs have inflated steeply in the past 2 years, because they know they will be hated.
@@MB-ln6be , you have my sympathy. I'm on my association's Board, and hope I am never driven to do the same.
A question Jeff, I have been watching all your videos on Champlain Tower, in the tourist video showing the entrance to the garage their is water coming from apparently a broken pipe that you or someone else said was a fire sprinkler line, why didn’t the fire alarm sound ? Isn’t a sprinkler flow alarm required ? I believe it took 7 minutes before the building fell after the pool deck fell, if their was a sprinkler flow alarm I think a lot more people would have had time to get out
cracking on the edges is normal maintenance of concrete see videos on maintenance and repair. rebar rusts causing damage at edges,, on decks its a normal repair.. there was a great video on that point.. by an engineer..
Q? @jeffostroff, I have a terrible time trying to SEE any details on the various floor plans and documents you show. I also have trouble FINDING your cursor in the videos. Is there some way to make things easier to SEE? I do enjoy your videos.
I was revisiting a video where Josh talked about foundations 1 year ago.
So, apparently the so called
Franki Piles were chosen which carry
150 Tons of Load … so my quick point here is there IS a specific weight limit
load which the piles can hold and surely a content weight estimation vs number of piles would be calculated.
I don t think the builder says … ?
let s add an extra dozen Franki Piles to accomodate All that remodeling WEIGhT in 40+ years. ?
"Why don't they go down to the first floor?" What good would it do for them to go down to the first floor? The first floor isn't significantly stronger than the third floor and up so add load to the first floor all you do is fail the first floor. They would have to extend the shores down to the basement floor too.
The damage to the balconies probably looks worse than it is but it will be expensive to repair, if not repaired it will get worse and eventually pieces of concrete will start falling off. This might undermine the guardrail attachment at the same time so don't walk out on the balcony and lean on the railing. And there could certainly be damage to the more major parts of the structure. We/you have preliminary structural drawings for that building, I don't think the final drawings have been made available to the public so we don't know if any changes were made before construction. I think it is unlikely but it is not impossible. If changes weren't made then they need to be doing more to that building than just adding a few shoring poles.
Yes the ICRI methods are what they have to use to repair the concrete and it usually stipulates that they have to chip away the car create a certain number of inches past where the damage stops, and then insert reinforcements, is reinforcements, and then reapply new concrete.
Hate to refer to a different person rather than Jeff, but this will explain what you're talking about re- probably looks worse than it is: th-cam.com/video/65vfMUP4-i8/w-d-xo.html
I'm worried for the one child whose parents separated and they shared custody , he was with his mother that night in the south building! Heartbreakingly,She did not make it but there son survived with 12 fractured vertebrae.. his dad still lives in the North part ...His dad said he was looking for other places to live at the beginning but decided his son needed some normalcy so they stayed!! I hope his dad see's this video
I know this is an older video, but given what we are finding out now about the construction errors of the building that went down, how can they be sure that this one doesn't have the same exact issues with the rebarb mistakes? Wouldn't that put this building at risk? Maybe not today, but what about in the near future?
Thank you for sharing.
Just watching this...2August 22...Since you seem to have the blue prints for the condo, answer a question please...are all the kitchens and bathrooms sharing a common water wall? Just thinking all the concentrated weight in one spot, stacked, and with remodels on each floor in the same area might be a problem?
The netting does not look like it would catch anything from above. It more looks like something to keep the lap dogs and cats from falling off the balconies.
Yes that could be, but it happens to be right under those areas
Wow, even if you don't know about the other building this looks like extremely expensive repairs are going to be required. How does the pool deck and planters compare with Champlain South? I wonder what work is going to be required as a result of the Champlain South collapse. Will they increase resistance to punch through ? Will they do anything to separate the pool deck structure from the building structure? Will the pool deck be completely replaced for water proofing and weight reduction? I don't know how much this kind of thing is going to cost, but I suspect that the owners will be more open to the repairs than they were in Champlain tower south.
All older buildings have problems with balconies. Balcony problems do not pull down the rest of the building like a pancaked detonation as if it was razed.
Great video
So glad I was able to sell my unit 3 months before the sisster building collapsed. I think the nets are for the dogs so they don’t fall through the railings.
Im sure thats a relief to the buyer too. At least you got out 😒
To be clear, if someone knocked on my door and said they are putting netting around my balcony to keep falling debris from hurting someone... I would just hand them the keys and say adios. But honestly, I would have been gone the same day the south tower fell.
How many residents have sold up? Are there any buyers who'd want to buy there?
Crumbling under the attached balconies is Not the same as crumbling buildings.
Couldn’t pay me enough to even spend a night in that building let alone live there!!!
I’ve been in the building trades for 50 years….
Think about what the footings in Florida would be…. ?poured concrete -supported by?…….
Sand)….
I have a deep suspiscion that way less rebar was used in the structure than was specified and/or approved. Was there an examination of columns to see what was actually there, or was it all sort of trucked out quickly? It seems that would be a huge detail in any lawsuits. The reason that I ask is that if it were a case of inadequate materials in the first collapse, would it be possible to X-ray those columns to in the still standing towers to see if they were up to the intended specs? Were the same engineers and contractors used, ditto, were they signed off on by the same inspectors. I would be very nervous about any cases where the same parties were involved.
Thanks Jeff. Looks like membrane is shot. Maybe too late to fix. If I lived there I think I would sell. Much better than getting pancaked in middle of night.
I think there's two units in there that sold this year but they went for probably 25% below the market of where it was before the collapse
@@michaelbigelow3255 Well, if you were an investor who was confident that the building was going to be fixed, you could buy at 25% below market, rent out the unit (surely someone would willingly take the risk in order to live on the beach) and then sell after the building is recertified. Or keep renting to a tenant. Either way, it's hundreds of thousands in free money...
(Assuming they can fix this dogsh*t of a building)
@@michaelbigelow3255 True, but it's been over a year since CTS collapsed. If CTN was really at risk, it would have been condemned last year.
It would be a speculative gamble, but some investors take the risk and make big-time money.
@@johnbergstrom2931 only 25% 💵less in purchase 💵price? That may not be enough 💵to cover the Special Assessments that will be needed and charged for the rebuilding and construction upgrades and improvements! Prices should fall by at least half….then it MAY be worth 💵the financial risk! But would the price still be a bargain? The stigma and reputation is going to last decades! 💵 My opinion!
Retired residential real estate appraiser.
Toronto, Canada🇨🇦
@@gladysobrien1055 Well, the 25% reduction was put forth by another poster. I was speaking hypothetically. Even if money was no object, I wouldn't buy a unit in that building.
Once again, Surfside isn’t a suburb of North Miami Beach, it is it’s own municipality. North Miami Beach is a separate municipality which is 100% on the mainland and unconnected to the cities of Miami Beach or Surfside.
That is correct but for people that are watching from around the around the world it's important it's important to sort of address where your surf side is located it is a suburb of miami but it's really closer to Miami Beach cause they bore to each other
What about 'East Miami Beach'?
No way I'd still be living in those North Towers! Great video as always Jeff. Do you think they will be 100% honest with the reasoning of the collapse?
I hope so
Like all of your videos!
If I lived in any of those condos. I'd move!
Very dry material and you've managed to make this content watchable for someone who's more interested in sustainable development. This kind of structure makes me feel claustrophobic. And after some of your videos ....I'm convinced old buildings turned into condos are not good investments ...esp in areas thst might be prone to storms, humidity, structural corrosion/damanages, and high volume of tourism/flux of visitors.
Also didn't know I needed the info.
Thanks I'm glad you like it
Have u been hacked??
It's very easy for a chunk of balcony to detach and come crashing to the ground with the risk of hitting somebody.
Attention to current residents of that condo: Please move out while you can.
Or at least stay off the balconies
If the Association responsible for CTN hasn't immediately ordered the removal of all and any paving slabs/tiles/marble from all of the balcony floors then this damage is going to get worse.
Inflation probably keeps everyone in this building, unfortunately
You got that right nowhere to go but yet you can't sell that's the position that a lot of people were left in during the last economic downturn in 2008 in 2009, people were getting foreclosed on and they couldn't even sell their properties..
if u have 1mill condo i dont think ur are wory bout inflatoin wake lady
Have you seen the new footage (aired 4 weeks ago) of Raiza Rodriguez ring camera hallway of champlain towers south?