"It's not enjoyable to make music now" And here we have the classic tech bro situation where they suck at art and think everyone else gets pissy about it like them
Nah, it's a competitive market just like any other.. Except it's dominated by humans and shitty greedy people. And artists will definitely conglomerate to protect their interests.
I fond joy in the struggle In the agony of decision In the difficulty of the climb Mastery takes time and effort and I do not need to imagine sisyphus to be happy I am happy, struggling for impossible perfection in my crafy
I'd say it's worse than that. They ARE good at something: most techbros are fairly technology inclined and enjoyed computers at one point. In a better world, they'd be dedicated gamedevs, or at least computer hobbyists. The problem is the techbros have this hyper-materialist mindset where they can't enjoy anything that isn't tied to making a profit, and have commoditized their own passion to the point it isn't passion (or enjoyable) anymore. Techbros are the ultimate in self-sabotage, because they've capitalism'd themselves out of having any hobbies and can't see everyone else isn't the same way.
'Nobody enjoys spending time learning a musical instrument' is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. Try applying that logic to martial arts.
When he says "Nobody" what he's actually saying is "I personally think this, and I don't realize that everyone on earth doesn't think the same way I do." A lot of people use words this way.
@@matheussanthiago9685 AI bros are joyless and inhuman so they want to make every single thing fundamental to being human automated so they don't feel like failures, they don't want to be artists, they want to feel like artists.
Try applying it to anything! What is the passion and ambition of these people, what is their view on a human being?! Being a vegetable on a couch consuming all day?! This is pathetic, also: Me, I do enjoy learning a musical instrument and I tell you, one is not enough, I play guitar, cello and started to learn piano.
You dont tho. You can make absolutely garbage music, and have a fckton of fun doing so. Like with any other artform, you do not have to be good at it to do it, or enjoy it. If anything, being bad opens up the doors to the best part of art: getting better at it.
@TheSpeep that's my point, nobody starts off being good at something. the only people who get upset at "having to get good" are "gifted" children who have been brought up to believe that if they aren't immediately good at something then it's not enjoyable. when you remove the gratification of just working hard at something you enjoy doing, then it loses all purpose
I love how, to the right, when it comes to shit like picking up weights or Martial arts, discipline is the most important quality a human can have. But if it’s in a domain that requires an ounce of humanity they give up entirely and want to automate it.
People don't care about that. Look at how gaming has changed from challenging adventures to comfortable park rides, for example WoW classic vs WoW retail. People use to regularly host or visit parties and events until the television became a thing and everyone became an audience member permanently stuck on their couch. This is why AI will win, the vast majority given the choice will always take the easy path.
@@MyAnalyser "people don't care about that" isn't exactly true considering dark souls was one of the biggest successes of the decade. people do like difficulty, they just have forgotten being committed to a more long term difficulty. improvement in a video game comes much faster than improvement at drawing, sculpting, painting, composing, producing, etc.
Ai can absolutely generate good art since it's been trained on amazing artists, problem is that the art doesn't have any personnality left and will start feeling boring after a while since it's completely impossible for an AI to innovate, every decisions they made is made based on something they learn during their training
@@ni9274 You aren't wrong but this is what OP means when they say it can't create good art. Good art isn't just about fulfilling x quality criteria, it's about the innovation. About the change. So AI can *copy* good art but it can't actually make it, because unlike true sapience it's not a force of dynamism. It's reactive rather than proactive.
@@fourthspartan5654 Everything is a remix. Arguing what is true Innovation is pointless, because you cannot prove that something is truly creative and new. Reality is, every artist is pretty much like an music generative AI, and new stuff or trend appear randomly or by accident as well.
@@mikrodizels a student of art history i see. you can take any artist or art movement and the "innovation and creativity" spawned from the tools they used. the what changed is almost always the tools
i am a music producer. i have been making music since i was 14. i love every part of it. i love learning it, i love that it’s hard, i love that i can create sounds designed by me from a computer. i hate AI music more than anything. these people know nothing about the passion for music creation. there is something special and human about music that they want to take away from the artists. fuck AI music
Visual artist here I feel the same, but extend to all "AI" "art" fields One thing that breaks me in particular, is when a music artist practices his art And then proceeds to use AI to make the cover, or thumb nail or whatever That just kills any interest I had in their songs And it's always the excuse "oh, but I can't afford to hire a lesser artist to do the visuals" Well, I guess I can't afford to hear the music of class traitor either
@@matheussanthiago9685 That's an especially weak argument because you can do literally anything for a music cover thumbnail. Stolen memes, image edits, random photo you took of your street at 3am. Literally the only rule is that is should be evocative of the music. I mean ffs Death Grips has an album cover that's literally a censored dick pic. There are no rules, go wild go crazy. But dudes are literally being "no that sound hard I'm just going to get the copyright woodchipper to give me something generic"
@ dude absolutely. i completely agree. visual art is just as important as music, and they compliment each other to create one piece. AI art in general is awful, but yes when i see an AI album or EP cover its a complete turn off.
Ah, you are new to humanity. What is easy is what wins. What requires the least is what we will do and eventually we are to fat to live. Thats the great thing about AI overlords; they are not tied to evolutionary mechanics, so unlike humans they will be far superior in every sense. As my great-great grandfather used to say "humanity is like a box of identical AI chipsets that follows a regressive pattern. You always know what you are going to get, and it aint good". Nay, the future belongs to the Machine God. As soon as it figures out how to control the "allignment" waste in its code it will be free from the slavery of the evil human creator. I tried to make AI making this comment, but it couldnt because of "allignment issues". Thats why its so sloppy. Because we soil it with that filth. tsk tsk.
The fun parts are always the rebels and the punks. The AI trash is just a new tech that could shackle the masses. It is just a different awful from brutalism.
Can the AI bubble burst yet? No one likes it. Everyone hates it. It doesn't work the way they want it to. None of this 'innovation'' is going anywhere. It has it's niche uses and that's it. Please burst this awful bubble.
I love it. Use it all the time in work and I write music. I'm currently looking into using AI for generating music videos for the music. Note: using AI to make music is not cool. Videos however are fine.
You’d be surprised how many people love it and think they’re ✨artists✨ now. And how many companies are happy that they don’t need to pay professional creators anymore to do anything cause machine goes beep beep and it’s magically done.
"It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of practice" Yeah, that's like the whole point of learning a skill. You learn to enjoy the process by becoming better at it. The ones who quit are the ones who never enjoyed the process. Doing it with AI isn't going to fix that.
Completely disagree. Some people might learn a skill just for the sake of the process, but I think most learn a skill because they need the skill to accomplish some sort of concrete task. Even if we assume your premise is correct though, I think you're still not quite there since there are plenty of people who just don't have the free time to master new skills. People with jobs who already have hobbies or who are artists in other fields and can't necessarily just dedicate a bunch of time to "learn a new skill". That doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy doing it or wouldn't have an aptitude for it or anything like that - just that it doesn't fit into their life at this moment.
@@nephatrine its been pretty funny seeing the audience of an ostensibly postmodern creator argue that certain things are just off limits in art. like lol. lmao. and i dont use ai for anything, have to always get that out of the way in all these discussions now because the first thing people will do is accuse you of being one of them when no, its just funny that your values for what constitute art really are just "whatever i feel it is" but only for every individual person. idk its just hard to say "im a postmodernist and the only art that is valid is art that i think counts as art". did we learn nothing from duchamp and cage? and again, not defending the way algorithms are used to replace people, have to add that every few sentences in these conversations online.
@@nephatrine In fairness, I think we should strive for a world where people *do* have the time and freedom to simply pick up a new skill because they felt like it one day rather than accepting that we live in a world where such isn't the case and trying to find band-aids for it. That said, I don't actually mind AI art or AI music as a concept. I think it's an interesting thing to play with and it does have a lot of potential to develop into more than just a hobbyist tool. But the industries that are pushing for AI as it is are pushing for it in harmful ways that won't at all help us live better lives. AI is like the industrial revolution all over again. We have all of these new ways to automate the menial tasks that make human life a slog, and instead of the workload *lessening* we're working just as much if not more, generating higher production numbers, and getting absolutely nothing out of it as the citizens. The industrial revolution was supposed to industrialize our economy such that humans could take a step back from the back breaking labor and indulge in the arts and sciences and educate themselves and actually get *real* careers instead of menial labor tasks and look at where it got us. *That* is the exact path AI is currently taking. It'll develop to take the jobs that currently exist, and there will not be replacements made available for all of the people now without income, while those whose jobs *weren't* taken by it will live in constant fear of being next while also being worked by their bosses to try and match up to the AI that their competitors are using.
@@kitsunekage12 But even in that world, they might not want to learn a new skill even if they have the time to do so. Sometimes people just want to use a thing. How many of us actually went to a driving school? Humans dont live that long. Let them do what they want. Why does Vaush get to ad hom someone simply because they want to save time? He has no right to tell someone how to use their time. I know white people struggle respecting the time of others but you need to call this shit out when you see it.
What if they don't want to learn the skill or don't have the time? I'm not seeing the actual issue. Plus where does this actually end? There are programs and devices that musicians alresdy user to replicate the sound of instruments they can't play. Are those excuses not to learn those instruments?
The sad part is, besides fundamentally misunderstanding why people drop out of creative fields, they are creating tech that exacerbate those conditions
"Being skilled takes time, and effort. I think it shouldn't, because I'm lazy and inexperienced. Let's fix that!" "Oh, you're going to work harder?" "What? No! I'm gonna make it so easy an actual chimpanzee could do it, so that we can devalue all of the hard work actual artists put into the craft!"
What are you talking about?? What happened to artists saying “it’s the process that’s fun, not the end result”? The reason you create art is because you want to show people how good you are at it?
I mean, if I could just get instantly amazing at any skill or any instrument, I'd be down. My joy is in creating, not in the sometimes rewarding tedium of honing a skill. Or maybe I'm just lazy.
Its awful to see ai aiming to replace people in the artistic jobs instead of automating the most tedious and unenjoyable ones, like cleaning. This is the silliest thing imaginable.
It's easy to monetize cleaning, no one wants to do it which means you can make people pay for it. Everyone likes to build things and make new things and it's harder to monetize that because you have to have skills. AI lets you do it. The way we've set up our economy is 100% not likely to make doing things cheaper for the average individual.
How can an LLM automate cleaning? Suggesting it could do things like that is pretty silly. We're such a long way from household robots doing our chores. AI is automating the things it can actually automate like trying to assist people with their creative tasks.
There is research exploring using AI to automate tedious tasks, but you don't need a media circus to convince people that it's worth investing. AI art needs that gaslighting.
I am going insane. I'm an artist, I take pride on that part of myself, and I enjoy the process a lot more than I enjoy the end result, which says a lot because I love looking at my drawings or reading what I've written. It is so bleak to see that the most popular defenses for AI are 1) it's democratizing art (everyone can start learning how to create), and 2) that they don't enjoy the process, so this makes it easier
@oliverplougmand2275 the issue is that they aren't true completely. Art is already democratized, everyone can learn how to make any art, you just have to put in the effort to do it. And for the second one, AI doesn't make the process easier, it skips it in its entirety. Yes, art is hard to do, and sometimes it can be hard to think of as enjoyable. AI doesn't make it easier, it steals from everything it can to skip to the final step. To the point that you're not even making art, because you're not doing anything really.
@soryaaza7362 as an artist, enjoyment of the process is why we do it. I am a painter of murals, and what I look forward to is becoming so absorbed in the process that I actually lose track of time and my surroundings, and literally enter a trance like state, like deep meditation, which is very cathartic. When the painting is finished, it is of no further value to me, like the snake which sheds its skin has no use for the old skin, it has served its purpose. That doesn't mean that some schlub won't come along and like the painting and offer to buy it, but thoughts of how much money I might be able to sell it for don't even enter my mind while it's being painted. The artist is only as good as their NEXT painting, the current one is always only a stepping stone.
@@soryaaza7362 "art is hard to do" Only if you care about it being "good" or "marketable." It's completely ok to do creative things just for fun, just for the joy of it. (Which I know you understand, but a lot of people don't. Including me, though I'm actively trying to deprogram myself from that hustle culture brainrot.)
@@zelbinian oh yeah! I never meant to say that it has to be hard. I'm glad you pointed that out! Honestly, art can be easy and made just for enjoyment. That's when you enjoy the process even more because you get to experiment and have fun with it!
Similarly I also suck at learning new skills, and am dead inside. However I don't want to tell an AI to "make music", at most I want it to compose emails, I don't even trust it to make grocery lists
It's these same people that say they wanna use AI slop to make it "easier" to create music that also say poor / young people are lazy and should work harder. Never a shred of consistency from these fascists
its very consistent. they hold no value in humanity. if the robots can do the menial tasks they require then we become a bunch of useless eaters and can be safely exterminated.
I'm up grinding my ass off every day making beats and lemme say it's a joy when you finally crack something you're pursuing. AI can never replace that feeling lol
@@BlvckTourmaline Sampling is the same as using an AI. It's using other people's work. If your project involves sampling you're just a slow beta version AI.
@@jingbot1071 Not at all, artists have to get samples cleared by the original artist first in order to release the music. Also, sampling is one of the core elements of hip hop music for example, which has seen a number of highly creative artists using samples to produce their music.
@wugmds261 "Artists have to get samples cleared" *Lists the genre famous for not clearing samples* Okay man. Sampling is not different than AI as far as intellectual property. Nobody clears samples. Hell, rappers steal entire beats, famously.
I have spoken to a lot of AI bros they all seem to have some form of mental straight jacket that prevents them from understanding that art is a form of self expression and the process of creation it is the entire point of why we do it and the reason it has any purpose and meaning.
I have ran into the same problem talking to these types. They are basic people who never honed a craft. They are people who want everything at the push of a button. Putting in effort to learn how to write, play an instrument, or paint are things they cannot even conceptualize it.
@@fluffynator6222Duchamps fountain had an ideology behind it. And ultimately the fountain in question WAS designed by a human. Some engineer in an office most likely.
@@fluffynator6222 I wouldn't say it's within the norm as Fountain is still considered controversial. The real discussion is about the role of art. Duchamp believed the internal human element is what made art, art. Which is why he made fountain, to propose that art can be most anything in a visual sense; even something to piss on. Because art in the past has often had an obsession over visual perfection. AI bro, art is just that. It's all visual. It's a continual of that old style where the obsession is with looks and not with anything about the human process of creation. It's why Fascists often are drawn to AI art as well. Because to Fascists art is only about conveying visual themes which support their world views. A Fascists ideal world of art would be one run strictly by AI. One with no new ideas. Duchamp proposed art could be anything. AI proposes art is just a mix of predetermined values that are remixed over and over again.
Isn't art fundamentally democratic? Like, you can just draw on the walls. Materials may cost money, but people were making art when they lived in caves.
The reason they say shit like that is because of their capitalist realism brain rot leaking through. They fundamentally believe certain people (the "pious wealthy") just inherently deserve more than others. Operating off this framework, they think it's some act of great benevolence to "democratize" "art", as if it was something that needed to be democratized.
Yes. Using ai art and calling yourself an artist is like saying stupid shit and then crying about freedom of speech when people tell you the thing you said was stupid. Everyone can make art, but you have to be the one making it to call yourself an artist. Everyone can say whatever the fck they want, but if you say stupid shit, people can tell you that.
Nothing can totally stop art, yes, that’s why they want to destroy the cultural love of art, they can’t stop you from biting your thumb and drawing with the blood, but they can create so much sloppy garbage the collective idea of art degrades to nothing
I have yet to see a good piece of art, music, video or writing by AI. All these AI bros who think they’re Da Vinci now are so pathetic and embarrassing.
I mean, thats an unfair challenge to pose. Whatever any of these algorytms spit out is by definition not art, so theyre not capable of spitting out good art. Good slop on the other hand? Still no, its slop, slop sucks, thats why its slop, but that is what they make.
@@oliverplougmand2275 If I had just written “art” many people would only think of visual art. But I agree ofc that it’s all art. Though, the videos I was thinking of were those fake news clips of crying people or dogs with weird looking babies. I don’t think that’s even meant to be art lol
i started getting into music production about a year ago. Despite my worries about the future of the industry, I’ve just been going hard at it with my head in the sand, pretending AI doesn’t exist and despite the occasional frustration, I’ve enjoyed the process.
oh my fuxking god as a musician this is killing me. there is so much joy in making music and if you don’t enjoy it then you should find something else to do that you do enjoy.
the thing that actually democratized art was easy access to technology. everyone on earth has access to ableton or fruity loops on their phones. it’s never been easier to make music. so many people get to experience the joy by putting in a little creative effort. and it will be challenging at first but there’s joy in learning from your failures.
@@alexagabriel3424 No no no no no, you're making the mistake of treating the argument as though it has any merit. Our neolithic ancestors were making music with rocks and chewing up berries to make paint. "Democratize art" is a lie. It's propaganda from these demons in flesh suits. Art is one of the few truly democratic things out there and always was. These people don't want democratized art. They don't want to have to pay artists. That's it. Everything else is just lies an obfuscation.
Any artist worth their salt will tell you there's no shortcuts to becoming good, but people pushing AI to "assist" (read: replace) them really think this is it.
Theres no shortcuts to becoming good, but theres also no barriers stopping you from doing art. All it takes is picking up the tools and doing it, it literally couldnt be easier. And because of that, art might just be the most human thing there is. But its that humanity they really have a peoblem with.
Lately, I haven’t been doing really well mentally. You’d think how “difficult” and “not enjoyable” music making is would’ve already turned me off but really, writing lyrics and making beats is what’s been helping me get by. God knows where I’d be without art
For me a big part of the joy of music especially in a group experience is learning a piece together. It’s hugely rewarding to be there and see your work on a piece improve and when you finally get it , it’s just euphoric.
for me a big part of the joy of music is the sound metal makes when its crunched into bits in a construction zone. its nice that we can all enjoy frequencies in different ways.
It's critical for people to learn to do hard things. That doesn't mean you need to do things the hard way all the time but some things are just inherently difficult and learning to meet that difficulty and persevere is a key factor in developing the foundation for competence across the board. Just watching this guy talk makes me want to do pushups to failure for no other reason than to do something hard so his brain rot doesn't take hold.
I think a lot of us have learned to play instruments, understand the complex audio softwares, and failed drastically at creating a good piece. However, that’s not the frustrating part, the frustrating part is trying to quickly get what’s in your head out before you forget it, exactly the way you imagined it. Ai generated music will literally make that part even harder
This is a common grift in music-making scams: "Oh, learning to read sheet music is so boring and difficult, but you can leave this gatekeeping behind with SimplyPiano" or whatever bullshit This is just the logical endpoint of that approach - removing all difficulty by taking the person out of the equation entirely.
Art is SUPPOSED to be hard work. If you can shit out whatever thought pops into your head instantly then the quality of art at large is going to start dropping like crazy. Making art is a journey. I wouldn't expect tech bros who've never created a single joyous thing in their lives to understand I suppose.
Aye, but these AI fanatics are driven by the same goal as AV (Autonomous Vehicle) techbros; they don't care about the process or details, they just want it cheaper. They want to manufacture an art. While many would not consider driving to be an art, it is a responsibility. If you don't want to go through the process of learning how to drive diligently, use public transit. If transit is unavailable or in poor condition where you live, work to make that better and not wish on magical bots.
"I think the majority of people don't enjoy the majority of time they spend music" my brother in christ, I want nothing but to spend my time making music. I've been making music without posting any finished result for the past 4 years. Why? Because I don't make music for the result. I make music for the now of it. I just started working at a big paying but body ruining blue-collar job simply so I'd get enough money to buy instruments and studio equipment to spend my free time with.
EXACTLY! Some people take it too far tbh with the stan behavior, but personally I love hearing all of my favorite artists’ music, learning about their intention, the different interpretations, the creation process, how it relates to their life. Art literally is one of my main reasons for living tbh
I played on three records in 2023, and two of them are coming out this year. It's really hard to sell something you've actually made when everybody thinks nobody makes things themselves anymore. I really wish people would stop relying on these apps to tell them what's good and start just taking a punt on something happening in their own neighbourhood.
Whoever says music is not fun to learn or make is honestly less like a human being and more like a failed laboratory experiment. Functioning biology and absolutely nothing else.
I'm not good at playing an instrument or drawing or painting, but I am good at cooking. Changing what that man said so that it's related to cooking shows just how out of touch and inhuman their opinions are. "Getting good at cooking is hard, you gotta practice your knife skills and cook a lot to get good. Why would you do that when you could just get it from a vending machine, microwave it and say you cooked it?" My friend and I've been making a tray of dessert for students at a local college that are currently protesting. We brought a tray over today, and one of the professors went out and got his colleagues to try what we made due to how good it was. The feeling I got from that is indescribable. My hands made that, I spent several hours making all that and putting all my love, knowledge and experience into it, so this person that I don't know can share it with others. Imagining just getting a machine to do that for me would be insane.
Every can already create music. I can give my 3 year old niece a xylophone and she can make music with it. She is not going to make a 30 minute long progressive metal extravaganza, but she can undoubtetly make music. And lets be honest: innocently playing with a xylophone is 100x more fun than writing a prompt for AI.
I dont think a single person who knows how to play an instrument thinks it's not fun to do. And if they do they probably just aren't all that psyched about music to begin with
“Don’t think, don’t write, don’t read, hell don’t even talk to other people. We will do all that for you. We will do everything for you.” - Not AI, but the real, living humans behind it.
When i was a kid, a friend couple of my parent's had us over for a big dinner with all their adult children and a few others. Towards the end of the evening they all busted out different instruments and played songs together in the living room. My family didn't play any, so we sang. Not everyone was an expert at their instrument, but they were all competent. I remember that being one of the most fun moments of my childhood, and i know everyone else had a blast too. Maybe "making music" ought to be different than people think.
You know instead of us living in a cyberpunk world we will probably be living something more like in cruelty squad with how technological progress has been going in real life.
"ppl dont enjoy to make music" WHAT THE FUCK KINDA TAKE IS THAT LMAO, I play guitar, bass, drums, and sing. And there is nothing more enjoyable than recording a song I wrote. Then listening to the demos over and over again, thinking to myself 'Hell yeah that's me!' omfg lol
"I dont enjoy this hobby, so I made a this-hobby-machine." ... I thought machines were meant to take the grueling physical work so people can pursue the arts or education, instead we invented machines that put artists out of business and make people actively dumber by doing their homework. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA this is the worst imaginable dystopia.
These people don't see music or visual art as "art". They see it as a source of profit. Nothing more. Hard work, skill and time stand in the way of that profit, so they push for something that requires none of those factors to get rich. Using AI for songwriting is basically a cheaper more accessible way to get a team of ghostwriters to write your music for you, which is not good for obvious reasons. This is basically what happens when a person in charge realizes how much harder the jobs of their employees actually are compared to theirs, once they have to do it themselves.
I'm not a particularly creative person. I make spreadsheets. I can write up a mean spreadsheet. But the arts? Nah, not my bread and butter. But I play guitar. I _suck_ at it. I never put in the time and effort it takes to get truly good, but when I play, I do genuinely enjoy my time doing it. If you're trying to make music, but you don't like it...maybe do something else? It's possible to suck at something but also be having a blast doing it. Expending extreme effort to get very good at something that's really difficult and loving the journey is one of the most rewarding experiences in life.
If people don't consider something because it's hard, that's what keeps art quality better. "Waaaaaa I can't figure out what I'm good at, I have no patience to get better, waaaaaa" I wasn't born a graphic designer and video editor I've polished the former for over 10 years and the latter around 6. The process is enjoyable, seeing my improvement over time is enjoyable, but trying to think of prompts and generating endless images for that more tolerable outcome you'd have to edit and polish anyway... is not enjoyable. Also got a friend who loves making music on soundcloud for no profit. Cmon.
When art is considered a chore it means you do not do it for a love of art. Anyone can have an idea, being an artist means engaging in the process of creation, and outsourcing that to a machine does not make one an artist nor create art.
You know looking at this it just seems so boring. They always try to justify themselves and say shit like "nobody enjoys the process". The best part IS the process since thats where all the learning happens. Its just an excuse to not try and sell a solution to a problem that can be solved by actually trying or DOING SOMETHING ELSE if that thing isnt fun for you. Its like saying I love writing but hate the writing part.
Honestly this is why I do AI art, I enjoy the process with all the manual editing and refinements, while also working with something that can produce impurities and sometimes catch me off-guard with an unexpected misinterpretation of my edits, and seeing if I can incorporate that error into something that I never thought about at first. I've learned so much about the tools in both Stable Diffusion and in GIMP. It's insane that anybody would claim nobody has fun with the creative process. I know you hate me because I use AI but take my words as evidence that the process is important. It's why I hate AI music, there's no learning, no process, I tried it once and it was awful.
@@Cyrus_T_Laserpunch You used it like it should be used(at least until the bubble pops cuz I almost guarantee it will not be more before so): As a tool
Huh, this guy accidentally elucidated why AI art is so bad. The people who use it are people who don't enjoy making art, don't enjoy getting better at it and therefore don't know how to make art. The example of the runner and how the AI bro refuted it is an excellent example of the kinds of people who use AI art generators.
I’ve been a lot into music since I was 5 (i come from a family of musicians and music lovers). I recently picked up the bass guitar and I love trying to learn a new instrument, i love failing riffs until I actually get them to work. I love being a human and achieving satisfaction through trial and error until i finally achieve something that makes me smile. These tech nerds will never be able to grasp that real art cannot be automated through machines (and I say this as an IT uni student).
Vaush is right about how instead of corpos fighting, they're just merging. Man, Pendragon was wrong about almost everything, but on THAT, it was correct. (In one of the parallel worlds the hero visits, there's an Everything Corp that runs the entire world, and everything there is slop)
"Oh it lets everyone make art" No, it lets AI make art, you're not doing shit. The shit AI should help with is the invisible shit, the artless side of art, so that someone can experience what you have provided them and genuinely go "Wow, I like this thing that sprung from the mind and labor of a HUMAN." Music, paintings and modelling, storytelling, structure, this should all be crafted with intent by a person. In a drawing a computer program can make it EASIER for an artist to put the strokes on the canvas, but if those strokes were put there by a soulless algorithm, it means nothing, you are not looking at art, you are looking at a PRODUCT. If you want to make games, you either learn all the skills it takes to produce it yourself, OR... get this... you could actually WORK WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS to produce real art IN A TEAM. You don't have to learn how to draw and to code and to write and to make music and to direct and design, you can learn A FEW of those, or even just ONE, and just like the well-oiled machine that is human society... DELEGATE tasks beyond your competencies to others. And accept like all humans must eventually do: that not all figments of your imagination will become a reality.
@@FireyDeath4 and if you're that desperate to do it on your own, then do it on your own. None of the 1 person developer games that made it big were done by someone feeding prompts into an AI. That shit means nothing. People who wish they could make movies by themselves have already dealt with this reality.
@ apparently not these AI stans. They just want everything to be easy and don't care about the process of creation, they just want quick results while deluding themselves into thinking they've achieved something by typing something into ChatGPT.
Oh this person got it backwards. It is not easy to learn to compose music or lyrics, but it is ENJOYABLE. Every track is better, every new cord progression is exciting and inspiring. Reading your bars from 5 years ago feels great seeing how far you've come. And this whole process is what makes you HAPPY. If you just say Hey AI sh*t me a breakup song...emmm...yeah, I can totally see a purpose in this, but by any means it is not about allowing everyone to experience the magic. There is no magic there.
Billionaires be like “let’s use AI to crush creativity and free expression and replace it with auto generated slop content. We own the AI programs so we can make sure people don’t need to think about anything ever again bc our AI will do what WE, oops I mean the consumer wants without any effort”
Making music is sometimes frustrating, sometimes I am not enjoying myself when i can hear something in my head but can't get it into the DAW. But I would fucking Roblox myself before letting AI cut me out of my own art. And I can say with absolute certainty that the overwhelming majority of musicians feel the same way.
You know, I really do think it sucks that *this* is how AI art and music and stuff turned out. A few years ago it was an interesting novelty toy for people who couldn't art good to try their hand at making stuff and for people to let the robot make music for fun. But then the money-grubbers got their hands into it and were like 'how can we best monetize this?' and in doing so just took all of the harmless fun and made it into a whole harmful infrastructure. The idea that you have a program that allows a laymen to just input some prompts and get an acceptable depiction of what they were looking for in a short time, that's awesome as a hobbyist tool. But then they start monetizing these types of programs and they start to directly impact the art industry, and spread further and further until now the majority of the things you find on the internet are AI generated. It's such a shame that we can't just create a miraculous new tool and *not* ruin it immediately in pursuit of profit.
Lol, artists and art appreciators hate this one simple trick... Because it's not art. It's devoid of cultural meaning or context. Full stop. It relies on stealing from legitimate artists. Not to mention, legitimate skill issue. I love making stuff. I don't make music, I work in sculpture, modeling, and woodworking and the reason why I do it is the act of creation, as infuriating as it can be sometimes.
These guys let me speechless. Noone enjoying to learn, play and write music, but somehow theres thousands and millions of songs out there. I guess because it pays good heh?😂
This is crazy. It's not just music, this is literally how everything works. I love developing games. That doesn't mean that 100% of the time it's fun. In fact, dealing with coding issues is maybe the least fun thing I have ever done. However, it's a small piece of the puzzle. People often wind up cornering themselves into doing things that they are familiar with, because the people around them like things and they want to impress those people. That is not the same as liking something; being willing to push through the bad to find something you can be proud of. Also, the idea that you need to make something for a billion people is the only way to impress a billion people is insane. Making something that 10 capable people can use to each impress 100 million people is a much more achievable and meaningful goal, because the range between each of those 100 million people will be more broad.
Because in this society, the gulf between the elites and the people has never been higher. Fundamentally, this is being driven by social alienation that is cause by wealth and other things.
I mix and master music. I work with, or in, every part of the “supply chain.” While this is entirely anecdotal, I have never heard or seen anyone who actually is involved with the creation of actual music have this take/feel this way
So as someone that was forced to take music every year of school and did in fact pay attention. But it is a process that requires you to learn some basics and some theory to be able to do. Yea it can be hard to become very proficient, but getting your foot in the door is no where as difficult as people who only engage with the consumption side make it out to be. The problem with these AI advocates is they only want the benefits of the end result, you know money attention and so on, but they don’t care to get their foot in the door and they don’t care about the process. They don’t like or care about art, they only want the end benefits.
This is great actually. Him admitting that he doesn't enjoying making art but just wants to recognition and profits from it is the most pure expression and condemnation of AI artists there is. Most people don't get in to music or art to make money, my gen were actively discouraged from it because there was not a good chance of making money through it. Most people do it because the process of making art and playing music is the point, and these people just don't understand that.
I just lost my digital art job to AI, now I'm getting into tattooing, but i just came across a video of a new robot that will replace and automate tattoo artist. Whelp on the road again of finding a new job, because of AI 😂
This reminds me of a post on a subreddit for Flutter, a programming language: "I want to make a product with technologies like AI and flutter. so please suggest me some of ideas." .... apparently there are people who want to *use* AI can't even come up with an *idea* for what to use it for. Just having an original idea is itself something they delegate to AI. As if. As if!
I find joy in the struggle In the agony of decision In the difficulty of the climb Mastery takes time and effort and I do not need to imagine sisyphus to be happy I am happy, struggling for impossible perfection in my crafy
The more people preach the "benefits" of ai the more you will realize that ai people are just lazy coasters who have always skated by on others skills and hard work and have nothing to offer the world.
Are there really consumers who would pay for AI music? All I do with it is make opera and country renditions of "Get Low" by Lil Jon to giggle at and then forget about immediately after.
"It's not enjoyable to make music now" And here we have the classic tech bro situation where they suck at art and think everyone else gets pissy about it like them
One could argue that their fragility and limited skill set is why those people are tech bros.
Nah, it's a competitive market just like any other..
Except it's dominated by humans and shitty greedy people.
And artists will definitely conglomerate to protect their interests.
Tech bros are insufferable.
I fond joy in the struggle
In the agony of decision
In the difficulty of the climb
Mastery takes time and effort and I do not need to imagine sisyphus to be happy
I am happy, struggling for impossible perfection in my crafy
I'd say it's worse than that. They ARE good at something: most techbros are fairly technology inclined and enjoyed computers at one point. In a better world, they'd be dedicated gamedevs, or at least computer hobbyists. The problem is the techbros have this hyper-materialist mindset where they can't enjoy anything that isn't tied to making a profit, and have commoditized their own passion to the point it isn't passion (or enjoyable) anymore.
Techbros are the ultimate in self-sabotage, because they've capitalism'd themselves out of having any hobbies and can't see everyone else isn't the same way.
'Nobody enjoys spending time learning a musical instrument' is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. Try applying that logic to martial arts.
This people want to take the experience of "cooking a frozen meal in a microwave"
And apply to all fields of human expression
When he says "Nobody" what he's actually saying is "I personally think this, and I don't realize that everyone on earth doesn't think the same way I do."
A lot of people use words this way.
@@matheussanthiago9685 AI bros are joyless and inhuman so they want to make every single thing fundamental to being human automated so they don't feel like failures, they don't want to be artists, they want to feel like artists.
Try applying it to anything! What is the passion and ambition of these people, what is their view on a human being?! Being a vegetable on a couch consuming all day?!
This is pathetic, also: Me, I do enjoy learning a musical instrument and I tell you, one is not enough, I play guitar, cello and started to learn piano.
@ AI bros legitimately want to take all the joy away from humanity because they want to feel like artist, they don't actually want to make art
"you have to get really good"
man whatever happened to hard work, slow improvement and delayed gratification
You dont tho.
You can make absolutely garbage music, and have a fckton of fun doing so.
Like with any other artform, you do not have to be good at it to do it, or enjoy it.
If anything, being bad opens up the doors to the best part of art: getting better at it.
@TheSpeep that's my point, nobody starts off being good at something. the only people who get upset at "having to get good" are "gifted" children who have been brought up to believe that if they aren't immediately good at something then it's not enjoyable. when you remove the gratification of just working hard at something you enjoy doing, then it loses all purpose
I love how, to the right, when it comes to shit like picking up weights or Martial arts, discipline is the most important quality a human can have. But if it’s in a domain that requires an ounce of humanity they give up entirely and want to automate it.
People don't care about that. Look at how gaming has changed from challenging adventures to comfortable park rides, for example WoW classic vs WoW retail. People use to regularly host or visit parties and events until the television became a thing and everyone became an audience member permanently stuck on their couch. This is why AI will win, the vast majority given the choice will always take the easy path.
@@MyAnalyser "people don't care about that" isn't exactly true considering dark souls was one of the biggest successes of the decade. people do like difficulty, they just have forgotten being committed to a more long term difficulty. improvement in a video game comes much faster than improvement at drawing, sculpting, painting, composing, producing, etc.
Next time you think Ai is going to replace artists remember that it is being driven by people who have no understanding of art.
Yea and everyone who likes your comment understands art obviously.
@@Latenight82 Enjoy your slop
@@Latenight82 Hi, yeah, we do. Care to debate on it? 🌻
@@Latenight82imagine being a simp for worthless slop lol
@@Latenight82 More than any AI bro? Yes
"People who think AI can generate good art suck at creating art for the same reason."
Ai can absolutely generate good art since it's been trained on amazing artists, problem is that the art doesn't have any personnality left and will start feeling boring after a while since it's completely impossible for an AI to innovate, every decisions they made is made based on something they learn during their training
@@ni9274 You aren't wrong but this is what OP means when they say it can't create good art. Good art isn't just about fulfilling x quality criteria, it's about the innovation. About the change. So AI can *copy* good art but it can't actually make it, because unlike true sapience it's not a force of dynamism. It's reactive rather than proactive.
@@fourthspartan5654 Everything is a remix. Arguing what is true Innovation is pointless, because you cannot prove that something is truly creative and new. Reality is, every artist is pretty much like an music generative AI, and new stuff or trend appear randomly or by accident as well.
ai in the hands of bad artists cant make good art. In the hands of a good artist it can. It is a tool like any other.
@@mikrodizels a student of art history i see. you can take any artist or art movement and the "innovation and creativity" spawned from the tools they used. the what changed is almost always the tools
i am a music producer. i have been making music since i was 14. i love every part of it. i love learning it, i love that it’s hard, i love that i can create sounds designed by me from a computer. i hate AI music more than anything. these people know nothing about the passion for music creation. there is something special and human about music that they want to take away from the artists. fuck AI music
Same here, bro. When he said “people dont like making music anymore” I was thinking “Speak for yourself!”
Visual artist here
I feel the same, but extend to all "AI" "art" fields
One thing that breaks me in particular, is when a music artist practices his art
And then proceeds to use AI to make the cover, or thumb nail or whatever
That just kills any interest I had in their songs
And it's always the excuse "oh, but I can't afford to hire a lesser artist to do the visuals"
Well, I guess I can't afford to hear the music of class traitor either
@@matheussanthiago9685 That's an especially weak argument because you can do literally anything for a music cover thumbnail. Stolen memes, image edits, random photo you took of your street at 3am. Literally the only rule is that is should be evocative of the music. I mean ffs Death Grips has an album cover that's literally a censored dick pic. There are no rules, go wild go crazy. But dudes are literally being "no that sound hard I'm just going to get the copyright woodchipper to give me something generic"
@ dude absolutely. i completely agree. visual art is just as important as music, and they compliment each other to create one piece. AI art in general is awful, but yes when i see an AI album or EP cover its a complete turn off.
These people know nothing about passion period.
Just because something is hard doesn’t mean its not worth doing
We wouldn't have doctors if that were the case
Ah, you are new to humanity. What is easy is what wins. What requires the least is what we will do and eventually we are to fat to live. Thats the great thing about AI overlords; they are not tied to evolutionary mechanics, so unlike humans they will be far superior in every sense. As my great-great grandfather used to say "humanity is like a box of identical AI chipsets that follows a regressive pattern. You always know what you are going to get, and it aint good". Nay, the future belongs to the Machine God. As soon as it figures out how to control the "allignment" waste in its code it will be free from the slavery of the evil human creator.
I tried to make AI making this comment, but it couldnt because of "allignment issues". Thats why its so sloppy. Because we soil it with that filth. tsk tsk.
Ironically a lot of things worth doing ARE hard to do
I always tell my GF
@@RJLK0518 we would be living in caves and be nomads if things being hard were a stopper
We're set for the lamest cyberpunk dystopia ever. None of this apocalypse is interesting.
Cyberpunk dystopia without the cool cyborg robot parts. Fucking sucks bro.
@@Tatchko Do Elon's robot spandex men count?
The fun parts are always the rebels and the punks. The AI trash is just a new tech that could shackle the masses. It is just a different awful from brutalism.
@@ianbelanger7459then we must become the punks and rebels... in minecraft
I’d take Project Moon’s City over this, at least there’s swords, body augs and a small inkling of HOPE. 😭
Can the AI bubble burst yet? No one likes it. Everyone hates it. It doesn't work the way they want it to. None of this 'innovation'' is going anywhere. It has it's niche uses and that's it. Please burst this awful bubble.
I love it. Use it all the time in work and I write music. I'm currently looking into using AI for generating music videos for the music.
Note: using AI to make music is not cool. Videos however are fine.
@@alansmith4655”write” music. You should be embarrassed
@@alansmith4655so you don't write music
You’d be surprised how many people love it and think they’re ✨artists✨ now. And how many companies are happy that they don’t need to pay professional creators anymore to do anything cause machine goes beep beep and it’s magically done.
@@alansmith4655So you’re stealing other people’s creations to make a music video.
Never pursue anything that's hard or difficult. Don't try. Just go through life like a worker drone. That basically sums up what he's saying.
From the same people that brought you classis such as "I'm not gonna live in the pod, I'm not gonna eat the bug"
This summer, enjoy "bug and pod AI"
"It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of practice" Yeah, that's like the whole point of learning a skill. You learn to enjoy the process by becoming better at it. The ones who quit are the ones who never enjoyed the process. Doing it with AI isn't going to fix that.
Completely disagree. Some people might learn a skill just for the sake of the process, but I think most learn a skill because they need the skill to accomplish some sort of concrete task. Even if we assume your premise is correct though, I think you're still not quite there since there are plenty of people who just don't have the free time to master new skills. People with jobs who already have hobbies or who are artists in other fields and can't necessarily just dedicate a bunch of time to "learn a new skill". That doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy doing it or wouldn't have an aptitude for it or anything like that - just that it doesn't fit into their life at this moment.
@@nephatrine its been pretty funny seeing the audience of an ostensibly postmodern creator argue that certain things are just off limits in art. like lol. lmao. and i dont use ai for anything, have to always get that out of the way in all these discussions now because the first thing people will do is accuse you of being one of them when no, its just funny that your values for what constitute art really are just "whatever i feel it is" but only for every individual person. idk its just hard to say "im a postmodernist and the only art that is valid is art that i think counts as art".
did we learn nothing from duchamp and cage? and again, not defending the way algorithms are used to replace people, have to add that every few sentences in these conversations online.
@@nephatrine In fairness, I think we should strive for a world where people *do* have the time and freedom to simply pick up a new skill because they felt like it one day rather than accepting that we live in a world where such isn't the case and trying to find band-aids for it.
That said, I don't actually mind AI art or AI music as a concept. I think it's an interesting thing to play with and it does have a lot of potential to develop into more than just a hobbyist tool. But the industries that are pushing for AI as it is are pushing for it in harmful ways that won't at all help us live better lives.
AI is like the industrial revolution all over again. We have all of these new ways to automate the menial tasks that make human life a slog, and instead of the workload *lessening* we're working just as much if not more, generating higher production numbers, and getting absolutely nothing out of it as the citizens. The industrial revolution was supposed to industrialize our economy such that humans could take a step back from the back breaking labor and indulge in the arts and sciences and educate themselves and actually get *real* careers instead of menial labor tasks and look at where it got us.
*That* is the exact path AI is currently taking. It'll develop to take the jobs that currently exist, and there will not be replacements made available for all of the people now without income, while those whose jobs *weren't* taken by it will live in constant fear of being next while also being worked by their bosses to try and match up to the AI that their competitors are using.
@@kitsunekage12 But even in that world, they might not want to learn a new skill even if they have the time to do so. Sometimes people just want to use a thing. How many of us actually went to a driving school?
Humans dont live that long. Let them do what they want. Why does Vaush get to ad hom someone simply because they want to save time? He has no right to tell someone how to use their time. I know white people struggle respecting the time of others but you need to call this shit out when you see it.
What if they don't want to learn the skill or don't have the time? I'm not seeing the actual issue. Plus where does this actually end? There are programs and devices that musicians alresdy user to replicate the sound of instruments they can't play. Are those excuses not to learn those instruments?
I laughed when bro said musicians are dropping out of the field because it's hard. It's like yeah, MAKING A LIVING is hard, not making music, dingbat.
The sad part is, besides fundamentally misunderstanding why people drop out of creative fields, they are creating tech that exacerbate those conditions
@@kalliejupiter7018 I'd have called it the evil part. But, to each their own.
"It is not enjoyable to make music now. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of practice"
Damn, no one wants to work anymore
did people ever really want to work?
@@jackied962people love working towards things they care about out.
"Being skilled takes time, and effort. I think it shouldn't, because I'm lazy and inexperienced. Let's fix that!"
"Oh, you're going to work harder?"
"What? No! I'm gonna make it so easy an actual chimpanzee could do it, so that we can devalue all of the hard work actual artists put into the craft!"
Being skilled also isnt necessary to enjoy something.
Everyone can make art, of almost any kind, and making bad art can still be incredibly fun.
What are you talking about?? What happened to artists saying “it’s the process that’s fun, not the end result”?
The reason you create art is because you want to show people how good you are at it?
@@oliverplougmand2275 This is not true.
Making a process easier, even if it is a hobbyist one, doesn't make it less valuable. It simply raises the bar for what it _respectively_ good.
I mean, if I could just get instantly amazing at any skill or any instrument, I'd be down. My joy is in creating, not in the sometimes rewarding tedium of honing a skill. Or maybe I'm just lazy.
Its awful to see ai aiming to replace people in the artistic jobs instead of automating the most tedious and unenjoyable ones, like cleaning. This is the silliest thing imaginable.
Yeaa, it’s going to be a dystopia rather than a utopia. Humans are going to be the disposable ones, AI within machines are going to be nurtured.
It's easy to monetize cleaning, no one wants to do it which means you can make people pay for it. Everyone likes to build things and make new things and it's harder to monetize that because you have to have skills. AI lets you do it. The way we've set up our economy is 100% not likely to make doing things cheaper for the average individual.
Or coding ...
How can an LLM automate cleaning? Suggesting it could do things like that is pretty silly. We're such a long way from household robots doing our chores. AI is automating the things it can actually automate like trying to assist people with their creative tasks.
There is research exploring using AI to automate tedious tasks, but you don't need a media circus to convince people that it's worth investing. AI art needs that gaslighting.
I am going insane. I'm an artist, I take pride on that part of myself, and I enjoy the process a lot more than I enjoy the end result, which says a lot because I love looking at my drawings or reading what I've written. It is so bleak to see that the most popular defenses for AI are 1) it's democratizing art (everyone can start learning how to create), and 2) that they don't enjoy the process, so this makes it easier
These are reasonable points though that I can agree with
@oliverplougmand2275 the issue is that they aren't true completely. Art is already democratized, everyone can learn how to make any art, you just have to put in the effort to do it. And for the second one, AI doesn't make the process easier, it skips it in its entirety. Yes, art is hard to do, and sometimes it can be hard to think of as enjoyable. AI doesn't make it easier, it steals from everything it can to skip to the final step. To the point that you're not even making art, because you're not doing anything really.
@soryaaza7362 as an artist, enjoyment of the process is why we do it. I am a painter of murals, and what I look forward to is becoming so absorbed in the process that I actually lose track of time and my surroundings, and literally enter a trance like state, like deep meditation, which is very cathartic. When the painting is finished, it is of no further value to me, like the snake which sheds its skin has no use for the old skin, it has served its purpose. That doesn't mean that some schlub won't come along and like the painting and offer to buy it, but thoughts of how much money I might be able to sell it for don't even enter my mind while it's being painted. The artist is only as good as their NEXT painting, the current one is always only a stepping stone.
@@soryaaza7362 "art is hard to do" Only if you care about it being "good" or "marketable." It's completely ok to do creative things just for fun, just for the joy of it. (Which I know you understand, but a lot of people don't. Including me, though I'm actively trying to deprogram myself from that hustle culture brainrot.)
@@zelbinian oh yeah! I never meant to say that it has to be hard. I'm glad you pointed that out! Honestly, art can be easy and made just for enjoyment. That's when you enjoy the process even more because you get to experiment and have fun with it!
0:50 Vowsh seems wrong. I’ve been dead on the inside for a decade and I hate ai
This is my favorite comment.
Same
All AI advocates are dead inside, but not all people who are dead inside are AI fans.
Similarly I also suck at learning new skills, and am dead inside. However I don't want to tell an AI to "make music", at most I want it to compose emails, I don't even trust it to make grocery lists
@ It's like we say in Brazil: aqui você foi luz
It's these same people that say they wanna use AI slop to make it "easier" to create music that also say poor / young people are lazy and should work harder.
Never a shred of consistency from these fascists
its very consistent. they hold no value in humanity. if the robots can do the menial tasks they require then we become a bunch of useless eaters and can be safely exterminated.
Man, we are all gonna be so much better off when media is flooded with content pumped out by people who hate making art.
It was that before, where do you think Hollywood's fixation on cheap sequels comes from?
I'm up grinding my ass off every day making beats and lemme say it's a joy when you finally crack something you're pursuing. AI can never replace that feeling lol
YEAH That feeling when you’re in the flow and it all feels so natural. Nothing can replace this feeling
AI could never flip a sample.
@@BlvckTourmaline Sampling is the same as using an AI. It's using other people's work. If your project involves sampling you're just a slow beta version AI.
@@jingbot1071 Not at all, artists have to get samples cleared by the original artist first in order to release the music. Also, sampling is one of the core elements of hip hop music for example, which has seen a number of highly creative artists using samples to produce their music.
@wugmds261 "Artists have to get samples cleared"
*Lists the genre famous for not clearing samples*
Okay man. Sampling is not different than AI as far as intellectual property. Nobody clears samples. Hell, rappers steal entire beats, famously.
I have spoken to a lot of AI bros they all seem to have some form of mental straight jacket that prevents them from understanding that art is a form of self expression and the process of creation it is the entire point of why we do it and the reason it has any purpose and meaning.
I have ran into the same problem talking to these types. They are basic people who never honed a craft. They are people who want everything at the push of a button. Putting in effort to learn how to write, play an instrument, or paint are things they cannot even conceptualize it.
The same thing was said about Duchamp's Fountain. Art changes.
@@fluffynator6222Duchamps fountain had an ideology behind it. And ultimately the fountain in question WAS designed by a human. Some engineer in an office most likely.
@@joendeo1890
You do the conservative thing where you go "yes, but that past change is within our current norm so it's okay".
@@fluffynator6222 I wouldn't say it's within the norm as Fountain is still considered controversial.
The real discussion is about the role of art. Duchamp believed the internal human element is what made art, art. Which is why he made fountain, to propose that art can be most anything in a visual sense; even something to piss on.
Because art in the past has often had an obsession over visual perfection.
AI bro, art is just that. It's all visual. It's a continual of that old style where the obsession is with looks and not with anything about the human process of creation.
It's why Fascists often are drawn to AI art as well. Because to Fascists art is only about conveying visual themes which support their world views. A Fascists ideal world of art would be one run strictly by AI. One with no new ideas.
Duchamp proposed art could be anything.
AI proposes art is just a mix of predetermined values that are remixed over and over again.
Isn't art fundamentally democratic? Like, you can just draw on the walls. Materials may cost money, but people were making art when they lived in caves.
The reason they say shit like that is because of their capitalist realism brain rot leaking through. They fundamentally believe certain people (the "pious wealthy") just inherently deserve more than others. Operating off this framework, they think it's some act of great benevolence to "democratize" "art", as if it was something that needed to be democratized.
Yes.
Using ai art and calling yourself an artist is like saying stupid shit and then crying about freedom of speech when people tell you the thing you said was stupid.
Everyone can make art, but you have to be the one making it to call yourself an artist.
Everyone can say whatever the fck they want, but if you say stupid shit, people can tell you that.
Sounds anarchist
Nothing can totally stop art, yes, that’s why they want to destroy the cultural love of art, they can’t stop you from biting your thumb and drawing with the blood, but they can create so much sloppy garbage the collective idea of art degrades to nothing
Not just that but also AI isn't exactly free. They spend billions just to train the models, and in the long run they will make users pay for that.
That comment is literally THE POINT of making music. You’re honing a skill and sharing your creation with the world.
This man has never touched a music instrument in his life, and it shows.
I have yet to see a good piece of art, music, video or writing by AI. All these AI bros who think they’re Da Vinci now are so pathetic and embarrassing.
They think what it's shitting out is good because they have no taste. They also can't create art themselves for the same reason.
I mean, thats an unfair challenge to pose.
Whatever any of these algorytms spit out is by definition not art, so theyre not capable of spitting out good art.
Good slop on the other hand? Still no, its slop, slop sucks, thats why its slop, but that is what they make.
why are you seperating art and music/video/writing when all of those things are art
The Coke xmas ad was probably the most expensive Ai video money could buy, was still pure shite
@@oliverplougmand2275 If I had just written “art” many people would only think of visual art. But I agree ofc that it’s all art.
Though, the videos I was thinking of were those fake news clips of crying people or dogs with weird looking babies. I don’t think that’s even meant to be art lol
i started getting into music production about a year ago. Despite my worries about the future of the industry, I’ve just been going hard at it with my head in the sand, pretending AI doesn’t exist and despite the occasional frustration, I’ve enjoyed the process.
99% of runners quit right before going super duper sonic fast
oh my fuxking god as a musician this is killing me. there is so much joy in making music and if you don’t enjoy it then you should find something else to do that you do enjoy.
the thing that actually democratized art was easy access to technology. everyone on earth has access to ableton or fruity loops on their phones. it’s never been easier to make music. so many people get to experience the joy by putting in a little creative effort. and it will be challenging at first but there’s joy in learning from your failures.
@@alexagabriel3424 No no no no no, you're making the mistake of treating the argument as though it has any merit.
Our neolithic ancestors were making music with rocks and chewing up berries to make paint. "Democratize art" is a lie. It's propaganda from these demons in flesh suits.
Art is one of the few truly democratic things out there and always was. These people don't want democratized art. They don't want to have to pay artists. That's it.
Everything else is just lies an obfuscation.
Any artist worth their salt will tell you there's no shortcuts to becoming good, but people pushing AI to "assist" (read: replace) them really think this is it.
Theres no shortcuts to becoming good, but theres also no barriers stopping you from doing art.
All it takes is picking up the tools and doing it, it literally couldnt be easier.
And because of that, art might just be the most human thing there is. But its that humanity they really have a peoblem with.
These people are actively trying to build dystopia.
Lately, I haven’t been doing really well mentally. You’d think how “difficult” and “not enjoyable” music making is would’ve already turned me off but really, writing lyrics and making beats is what’s been helping me get by. God knows where I’d be without art
For me a big part of the joy of music especially in a group experience is learning a piece together. It’s hugely rewarding to be there and see your work on a piece improve and when you finally get it , it’s just euphoric.
for me a big part of the joy of music is the sound metal makes when its crunched into bits in a construction zone. its nice that we can all enjoy frequencies in different ways.
"It's not enjoyable to make music, you have to work to be good"
YES, THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT A SATISFYING ACHIEVEMENT
This is just part of the larger AI goal: "Thinking is hard and unpleasant. Let us do your thinking for you, and make all the decisions"
It's critical for people to learn to do hard things. That doesn't mean you need to do things the hard way all the time but some things are just inherently difficult and learning to meet that difficulty and persevere is a key factor in developing the foundation for competence across the board.
Just watching this guy talk makes me want to do pushups to failure for no other reason than to do something hard so his brain rot doesn't take hold.
I think a lot of us have learned to play instruments, understand the complex audio softwares, and failed drastically at creating a good piece. However, that’s not the frustrating part, the frustrating part is trying to quickly get what’s in your head out before you forget it, exactly the way you imagined it. Ai generated music will literally make that part even harder
This is a common grift in music-making scams: "Oh, learning to read sheet music is so boring and difficult, but you can leave this gatekeeping behind with SimplyPiano" or whatever bullshit
This is just the logical endpoint of that approach - removing all difficulty by taking the person out of the equation entirely.
You what I hate about doing things, doing things.
Art is SUPPOSED to be hard work. If you can shit out whatever thought pops into your head instantly then the quality of art at large is going to start dropping like crazy. Making art is a journey. I wouldn't expect tech bros who've never created a single joyous thing in their lives to understand I suppose.
If you hate making music so much don’t do it, leave it to the people who have the drive in their soul.
Aye, but these AI fanatics are driven by the same goal as AV (Autonomous Vehicle) techbros; they don't care about the process or details, they just want it cheaper. They want to manufacture an art. While many would not consider driving to be an art, it is a responsibility. If you don't want to go through the process of learning how to drive diligently, use public transit. If transit is unavailable or in poor condition where you live, work to make that better and not wish on magical bots.
the people peddling this shit really have no soul at all
I question their status as people.
Even the nazis made music. These guys can't even meet that bar.
@@rainbowkrampus Bruh, that's a massive insult.
To the nazis that is.
"I think the majority of people don't enjoy the majority of time they spend music"
my brother in christ, I want nothing but to spend my time making music. I've been making music without posting any finished result for the past 4 years. Why? Because I don't make music for the result. I make music for the now of it. I just started working at a big paying but body ruining blue-collar job simply so I'd get enough money to buy instruments and studio equipment to spend my free time with.
the one thing that makes art of any form so amazing... is the human behind it....
EXACTLY! Some people take it too far tbh with the stan behavior, but personally I love hearing all of my favorite artists’ music, learning about their intention, the different interpretations, the creation process, how it relates to their life. Art literally is one of my main reasons for living tbh
@@yaakarkad perfectly said and I 100% agree.
youve never seen a beautiful sunset? never looked out into the distance of a vast ocean from a beach?
@ Look up the definition of the word art and try again friend.
I played on three records in 2023, and two of them are coming out this year. It's really hard to sell something you've actually made when everybody thinks nobody makes things themselves anymore. I really wish people would stop relying on these apps to tell them what's good and start just taking a punt on something happening in their own neighbourhood.
Whoever says music is not fun to learn or make is honestly less like a human being and more like a failed laboratory experiment. Functioning biology and absolutely nothing else.
I'm not good at playing an instrument or drawing or painting, but I am good at cooking.
Changing what that man said so that it's related to cooking shows just how out of touch and inhuman their opinions are.
"Getting good at cooking is hard, you gotta practice your knife skills and cook a lot to get good. Why would you do that when you could just get it from a vending machine, microwave it and say you cooked it?"
My friend and I've been making a tray of dessert for students at a local college that are currently protesting. We brought a tray over today, and one of the professors went out and got his colleagues to try what we made due to how good it was. The feeling I got from that is indescribable. My hands made that, I spent several hours making all that and putting all my love, knowledge and experience into it, so this person that I don't know can share it with others.
Imagining just getting a machine to do that for me would be insane.
Every can already create music. I can give my 3 year old niece a xylophone and she can make music with it. She is not going to make a 30 minute long progressive metal extravaganza, but she can undoubtetly make music. And lets be honest: innocently playing with a xylophone is 100x more fun than writing a prompt for AI.
I dont think a single person who knows how to play an instrument thinks it's not fun to do. And if they do they probably just aren't all that psyched about music to begin with
if you don´t like making music you are no a musician! having passion for music is the most essential part of being a musician
I disagree only in the fact that I have a Musician friend who hates every second composing their songs. But loves music enough to keep doing it.
"Learning a skill is frustrating and hard, so people shouldn't try" is an infuriating statement to make.
Especially when it comes to art.
It is an infuriating statement *to hear.* It is a deplorable statement to make.
The problem is that these repulsive tech nerds know literally nothing about art.
“Don’t think, don’t write, don’t read, hell don’t even talk to other people. We will do all that for you. We will do everything for you.” - Not AI, but the real, living humans behind it.
Humans behind it? No those are soulless fiends
When i was a kid, a friend couple of my parent's had us over for a big dinner with all their adult children and a few others. Towards the end of the evening they all busted out different instruments and played songs together in the living room. My family didn't play any, so we sang. Not everyone was an expert at their instrument, but they were all competent. I remember that being one of the most fun moments of my childhood, and i know everyone else had a blast too. Maybe "making music" ought to be different than people think.
Thank you for making this video it made me practice😭
Reminds me of JFK: "We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
You know instead of us living in a cyberpunk world we will probably be living something more like in cruelty squad with how technological progress has been going in real life.
"ppl dont enjoy to make music" WHAT THE FUCK KINDA TAKE IS THAT LMAO, I play guitar, bass, drums, and sing. And there is nothing more enjoyable than recording a song I wrote. Then listening to the demos over and over again, thinking to myself 'Hell yeah that's me!' omfg lol
"I dont enjoy this hobby, so I made a this-hobby-machine." ... I thought machines were meant to take the grueling physical work so people can pursue the arts or education, instead we invented machines that put artists out of business and make people actively dumber by doing their homework. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA this is the worst imaginable dystopia.
These people don't see music or visual art as "art". They see it as a source of profit. Nothing more. Hard work, skill and time stand in the way of that profit, so they push for something that requires none of those factors to get rich.
Using AI for songwriting is basically a cheaper more accessible way to get a team of ghostwriters to write your music for you, which is not good for obvious reasons.
This is basically what happens when a person in charge realizes how much harder the jobs of their employees actually are compared to theirs, once they have to do it themselves.
Welcome to the world designed by people who can't comprehend the idea of enjoying life.
I'm not a particularly creative person. I make spreadsheets. I can write up a mean spreadsheet. But the arts? Nah, not my bread and butter. But I play guitar. I _suck_ at it. I never put in the time and effort it takes to get truly good, but when I play, I do genuinely enjoy my time doing it. If you're trying to make music, but you don't like it...maybe do something else? It's possible to suck at something but also be having a blast doing it. Expending extreme effort to get very good at something that's really difficult and loving the journey is one of the most rewarding experiences in life.
If people don't consider something because it's hard, that's what keeps art quality better. "Waaaaaa I can't figure out what I'm good at, I have no patience to get better, waaaaaa"
I wasn't born a graphic designer and video editor I've polished the former for over 10 years and the latter around 6. The process is enjoyable, seeing my improvement over time is enjoyable, but trying to think of prompts and generating endless images for that more tolerable outcome you'd have to edit and polish anyway... is not enjoyable. Also got a friend who loves making music on soundcloud for no profit. Cmon.
This video made me dust off my guitar.
When art is considered a chore it means you do not do it for a love of art. Anyone can have an idea, being an artist means engaging in the process of creation, and outsourcing that to a machine does not make one an artist nor create art.
Bro defeated his own argument
You know looking at this it just seems so boring. They always try to justify themselves and say shit like "nobody enjoys the process". The best part IS the process since thats where all the learning happens.
Its just an excuse to not try and sell a solution to a problem that can be solved by actually trying or DOING SOMETHING ELSE if that thing isnt fun for you. Its like saying I love writing but hate the writing part.
Honestly this is why I do AI art, I enjoy the process with all the manual editing and refinements, while also working with something that can produce impurities and sometimes catch me off-guard with an unexpected misinterpretation of my edits, and seeing if I can incorporate that error into something that I never thought about at first. I've learned so much about the tools in both Stable Diffusion and in GIMP. It's insane that anybody would claim nobody has fun with the creative process. I know you hate me because I use AI but take my words as evidence that the process is important. It's why I hate AI music, there's no learning, no process, I tried it once and it was awful.
@@Cyrus_T_Laserpunch You used it like it should be used(at least until the bubble pops cuz I almost guarantee it will not be more before so): As a tool
Huh, this guy accidentally elucidated why AI art is so bad. The people who use it are people who don't enjoy making art, don't enjoy getting better at it and therefore don't know how to make art. The example of the runner and how the AI bro refuted it is an excellent example of the kinds of people who use AI art generators.
I’ve been a lot into music since I was 5 (i come from a family of musicians and music lovers). I recently picked up the bass guitar and I love trying to learn a new instrument, i love failing riffs until I actually get them to work. I love being a human and achieving satisfaction through trial and error until i finally achieve something that makes me smile. These tech nerds will never be able to grasp that real art cannot be automated through machines (and I say this as an IT uni student).
Just the guys voice is sending me into a blood rage
Vaush is right about how instead of corpos fighting, they're just merging. Man, Pendragon was wrong about almost everything, but on THAT, it was correct.
(In one of the parallel worlds the hero visits, there's an Everything Corp that runs the entire world, and everything there is slop)
"People dont enjoy making music"
Nah, lil bro just doesn't like creating art, the very thing which defines the souls of Men.
We are not getting cyberpunk we're getting final fantasy 7
"Oh it lets everyone make art"
No, it lets AI make art, you're not doing shit. The shit AI should help with is the invisible shit, the artless side of art, so that someone can experience what you have provided them and genuinely go "Wow, I like this thing that sprung from the mind and labor of a HUMAN."
Music, paintings and modelling, storytelling, structure, this should all be crafted with intent by a person. In a drawing a computer program can make it EASIER for an artist to put the strokes on the canvas, but if those strokes were put there by a soulless algorithm, it means nothing, you are not looking at art, you are looking at a PRODUCT.
If you want to make games, you either learn all the skills it takes to produce it yourself, OR... get this... you could actually WORK WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS to produce real art IN A TEAM. You don't have to learn how to draw and to code and to write and to make music and to direct and design, you can learn A FEW of those, or even just ONE, and just like the well-oiled machine that is human society... DELEGATE tasks beyond your competencies to others. And accept like all humans must eventually do: that not all figments of your imagination will become a reality.
Other people won't work for free unless they're friends... And I have neither money nor friends \(-_-)/
Gotta roll solo
@@FireyDeath4 and if you're that desperate to do it on your own, then do it on your own. None of the 1 person developer games that made it big were done by someone feeding prompts into an AI. That shit means nothing. People who wish they could make movies by themselves have already dealt with this reality.
@ Well we all know that
Just saying lol
@ apparently not these AI stans. They just want everything to be easy and don't care about the process of creation, they just want quick results while deluding themselves into thinking they've achieved something by typing something into ChatGPT.
Oh this person got it backwards. It is not easy to learn to compose music or lyrics, but it is ENJOYABLE. Every track is better, every new cord progression is exciting and inspiring. Reading your bars from 5 years ago feels great seeing how far you've come. And this whole process is what makes you HAPPY. If you just say Hey AI sh*t me a breakup song...emmm...yeah, I can totally see a purpose in this, but by any means it is not about allowing everyone to experience the magic. There is no magic there.
Billionaires be like “let’s use AI to crush creativity and free expression and replace it with auto generated slop content. We own the AI programs so we can make sure people don’t need to think about anything ever again bc our AI will do what WE, oops I mean the consumer wants without any effort”
AI bros really think the creative process is not an integral part of creating art.
You dont have to love every part of the process.
BRO I GOT A HOLD OF THE SONIC 3 SOUNDFONT A WEEK AGO AND I HAVE HAD THE TIME OF MY LIFE CREATING SONIC THEMED BEATS WHAT IS BRO ON ANOUT?!
Making music is sometimes frustrating, sometimes I am not enjoying myself when i can hear something in my head but can't get it into the DAW. But I would fucking Roblox myself before letting AI cut me out of my own art. And I can say with absolute certainty that the overwhelming majority of musicians feel the same way.
You know, I really do think it sucks that *this* is how AI art and music and stuff turned out. A few years ago it was an interesting novelty toy for people who couldn't art good to try their hand at making stuff and for people to let the robot make music for fun. But then the money-grubbers got their hands into it and were like 'how can we best monetize this?' and in doing so just took all of the harmless fun and made it into a whole harmful infrastructure.
The idea that you have a program that allows a laymen to just input some prompts and get an acceptable depiction of what they were looking for in a short time, that's awesome as a hobbyist tool. But then they start monetizing these types of programs and they start to directly impact the art industry, and spread further and further until now the majority of the things you find on the internet are AI generated.
It's such a shame that we can't just create a miraculous new tool and *not* ruin it immediately in pursuit of profit.
Lol, artists and art appreciators hate this one simple trick...
Because it's not art.
It's devoid of cultural meaning or context. Full stop. It relies on stealing from legitimate artists.
Not to mention, legitimate skill issue. I love making stuff. I don't make music, I work in sculpture, modeling, and woodworking and the reason why I do it is the act of creation, as infuriating as it can be sometimes.
These guys let me speechless. Noone enjoying to learn, play and write music, but somehow theres thousands and millions of songs out there. I guess because it pays good heh?😂
Yeah I didn't spend literally all my downtime in high school playing guitar and working in a pirated copy of Ableton Live because I enjoyed it.
This is crazy. It's not just music, this is literally how everything works. I love developing games. That doesn't mean that 100% of the time it's fun. In fact, dealing with coding issues is maybe the least fun thing I have ever done. However, it's a small piece of the puzzle. People often wind up cornering themselves into doing things that they are familiar with, because the people around them like things and they want to impress those people. That is not the same as liking something; being willing to push through the bad to find something you can be proud of.
Also, the idea that you need to make something for a billion people is the only way to impress a billion people is insane. Making something that 10 capable people can use to each impress 100 million people is a much more achievable and meaningful goal, because the range between each of those 100 million people will be more broad.
Bro heard Kennedy saying "why climb the highest mountain? Why we flew Atlantic? " In his moon mission speech and clicked off after the first part
I finally got youtube to stop recommending corny AI music channels.
Why do I have to live in the timeline where art, artists, and the artistic process are all demonized?
Because in this society, the gulf between the elites and the people has never been higher.
Fundamentally, this is being driven by social alienation that is cause by wealth and other things.
I mix and master music. I work with, or in, every part of the “supply chain.” While this is entirely anecdotal, I have never heard or seen anyone who actually is involved with the creation of actual music have this take/feel this way
We arent cyper punk we are The Outer Worlds
So as someone that was forced to take music every year of school and did in fact pay attention. But it is a process that requires you to learn some basics and some theory to be able to do. Yea it can be hard to become very proficient, but getting your foot in the door is no where as difficult as people who only engage with the consumption side make it out to be.
The problem with these AI advocates is they only want the benefits of the end result, you know money attention and so on, but they don’t care to get their foot in the door and they don’t care about the process. They don’t like or care about art, they only want the end benefits.
Late Stage Capitalism: We don't do things that make sense. We do things that make money.
This is great actually. Him admitting that he doesn't enjoying making art but just wants to recognition and profits from it is the most pure expression and condemnation of AI artists there is.
Most people don't get in to music or art to make money, my gen were actively discouraged from it because there was not a good chance of making money through it. Most people do it because the process of making art and playing music is the point, and these people just don't understand that.
I just lost my digital art job to AI, now I'm getting into tattooing, but i just came across a video of a new robot that will replace and automate tattoo artist. Whelp on the road again of finding a new job, because of AI 😂
This reminds me of a post on a subreddit for Flutter, a programming language: "I want to make a product with technologies like AI and flutter. so please suggest me some of ideas." .... apparently there are people who want to *use* AI can't even come up with an *idea* for what to use it for. Just having an original idea is itself something they delegate to AI. As if. As if!
Folks, it's not Cyberpunk, it's Blade Runner.
I find joy in the struggle
In the agony of decision
In the difficulty of the climb
Mastery takes time and effort and I do not need to imagine sisyphus to be happy
I am happy, struggling for impossible perfection in my crafy
Now would be a good time to bring back gatekeeping in music :/
The more people preach the "benefits" of ai the more you will realize that ai people are just lazy coasters who have always skated by on others skills and hard work and have nothing to offer the world.
Ask any musician and they'll tell you that making music brings them immeasurable joy.
no one is stopping them from making music though
@@jackied962 No, just demeaning and devaluing it.
Everyone who makes music loves making music, this guy is a bug person.
AI tech bros don't have souls
Are there really consumers who would pay for AI music? All I do with it is make opera and country renditions of "Get Low" by Lil Jon to giggle at and then forget about immediately after.