Our culture tells us that love is just a big, wonderful emotion. I learned from my children what love really is. They taught me that real love is always doing the right thing by the other person even if you're incredibly angry with them. When an entire culture's view of love is just a big emotional high how is marriage supposed to survive? All relationships are going to have tough times. If we can't behave in loving ways regardless of how emotional we may feel there's not much chance for marital success.
What struck me was the last scene where the father literally became a ghost as the mom, the kid, and the new boyfriend invited him to go trick or treating. It spoke volumes about what it's like to be the non - custodial parent..
That wasn't the last scene. The last scene has father carrying the child to his car. Also, just before Halloween, the child wanted the dad to read to him, so he wasn't excluded
@@talorix Damn... You really don't empathize with him at all. What is it like to live like that? Do you really walk around making judgements about the world without any thought for what someone else might feel?
@@treesap2 No, David. No. You are wrong. I was not trying to be unemphatic to Charlie. I was focusing on the kid because it's his life that is just evolving in front of our eyes. He has a dad and a mom who are no longer together and who don't know better.
@@talorix And the OP was talking about Charlie... So, I don't know what we are talking about. The imagery was purposeful and astounding. He is literally haunting the new "happy" family. Given that OP was referring to that and you immediately attempted to reframe it away from the point, I would suggest that indicates a lack of empathy.
A profile in the guise of a movie review? I didn't see this but these characters don't appear that great. It reminds of a book "A Day in the Life" about two privileged people who crash their lives despite being such. Privilege is useful but can also be hazardous. This book wasn't about divorce.
I really like Adam Driver as an actor; I think he's highly underrated and could quite possibly be one of the most gifted actors of our time. That said, I had a very contentious divorce, and 11 years after the divorce, a very contentious custody battle once the youngest was old enough to fend mostly for herself without diaper changing, day care, etc. So the movie was very good, but very difficult for me to watch. I shed more than a few tears during this movie; mostly for Henry. The analysis was spot on, I thought.
Oh, something I liked about the movie too is how it portrays this feeling of not really knowing the person you thought you knew. At the beginning of the movie, they agree they won't use attorneys and all of a sudden Nicole has hired one and Charlie can't even talk directly to her. It was annoying and infuriating, but, at the same time, I enjoyed watching a scene that resonated with me and that I identified with. It's awful to be with someone and, like you said, see things going bad so quickly, and having this sensation that you don't recognize this person and why she suddenly started doing all of these things.
Because agreeing on not using attorneys was about as useful to him as her never going back to LA to work. Look who benefited from both. Had he thought he would win with an attorney, believe me he would have gotten one earlier just like he got a piece of ass from the state manager. Charlie was always about himself.
150% agreed, I keep telling people it's either bad marketing or disingenuous marketing. Movies poorly named like this spread toxicity as to what marriage should *not* be and itself is gaslighting the public that it claims to support.
@@vmitradkwondofytr480 The title is exactly what the movie is about. It is about marriage. In this case, the ending was divorce. The essence of the movie is that in marriage or any type of relationship for that matter we will end up hurting each other. It cannot be avoided. There will always be hardships. The question is whether we learn to communicate and hear the other person or: If we hold on to our own view of how things are, unwilling to see our part in it and work it out. The protagonists couldn't work through their problems, Thus, the ending was divorce. So, yes it is a movie about marriage in general, in particular, one that ended in divorce despite of the love the couple had for each other.
The beginning of your marriage breaking down is pretty much the most terrifying time, especially when kids are involved. Everyone told me to lawyer up, go on the offensive, this is a war, etc. But that has never been who I am. So, as scared as we both were, we worked together as much a possible. Years after being physically separated (divorce almost done), things are peaceful. As much as I grew to hate him for all the cheating and lies, I'm glad I was able to keep my head. Kids need two healthy parents.
Very spot on, and I'm very grateful you articulated all your points so meticulously. I was getting tired of hearing comments like "oh it was too sad" "oh i didn't enjoy it at all lol". It wasn't meant to be enjoyable! Despite its obvious weaknesses (too long, maybe too aggressive in its dramatic aspect), I'm firm in my belief that stressful and emotionally-violent movies like this one are just as necessary as the happy and aloof relationship movies. Thank you for doing it justice with your review!
A subtle theme was that of enmeshment. Nicole’s mom lacked boundaries and Nicole displayed the classic combo of lacking a sense of self and some entitlement that is common in kids with emotionally needy parents that lack boundaries (family therapist here). I agree. It was a stressful film to view and I think it would have been nice to have had some relief from the intensity from time to time.
I didn't think that the movie dragged on the suffering too much, but it may be because I don't see that everyday, like you mentioned. It was indeed painful and agonizing to watch, but I like movies like that sometimes and I think it honors the hardships people go through. It was supposed to be unpleasant and it was for the whole movie. I didn't know how realistic it was, so it was an interesting analysis. I like your movie/characters analyses.
Whew!! Married 22 years and divorced for 30. He remarried but I could never “pull the trigger” again. I supported myself and made my life very happy and productive. My friends who have been married 50-ish years are very unhappy now. Kids are grown and their spouses control the TV remote, spending, comings and going’s, etc. They are lucky to get out for lunch once a week and always have to take a treat home to hubby so he won’t be grouchy or mad. Marriage isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
My ex became abusive and used the kids. He hated being alone and me more than he loved our kids. My kids are both very different humans at 15 than they were at 8 when the abuse started. I got out after 3 years, but damage was done. How can a parent do that to a child!
Leave it to Dr Grande to describe budding love as ‘emotions and illogical thinking’ 😂 This movie was very depressing to watch and the characters were quite unlikable.
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for that analysis. I really felt like it resonated with me, as someone who has been through divorce. Fortunately, there were no children involved, and minimal contact with the legal system. But the interpersonal dynamics of the couple becoming enemies without really wanting to was familiar to me. I also want to say that I am a new subscriber, and your topics and analysis are helpful to me in seeing my own and others’ behavior in a more objective way so that I can try to be a better person and also not be as troubled by others’ negative behavior. Thanks!
Dr. Grande, can you do a video on the affects of social media and mental illness? Does social media exacerbate mental illness or does it attract people who already have some sort of issues?
This was excellent, you touched so many important points in this movie. It was indeed heartbreaking, hard to watch and there is so much to be said about it. However what stuck with me was the difficulty to sacrifice from both ends. Wonderful job as always Dr. Grande!
I agree with just about everything you said but I wish you had mentioned the letters they wrote to each other and how you felt about that. I feel like we were supposed to believe that if Charlie had read Nicole's letter earlier, then maybe things would have gone a different way. I don't think that's very realistic, but they made it so dramatic with Charlie finally reading it at the end. Would have loved to hear your take on that part of it.
this is the movie my father would have made about our life if he were alive and would have been furious that he wasn't perceived as a victim but a self-interested narcissist instead. thanks Dr Grande for the validation :)
I think that people have a tendency to approach this movie with the inclination to try to decide who's right and who's wrong and choose a side and miss the point. They're both right and they're both wrong, and there's no side to be on, except the child. The hope should be for them to get past their rage, move on with their lives, and make the best decision for their child.
I found this film to be very intelligent and yes challenging, so if you don't like to have intelligence and and a challenge stay away, there is always some action movies
It was like meeting a couple and befriending a person when they were going through a divorce. Like, you missed the part when they were together but were along for the ride/support of their divorce. That's what it reminded me of as I have met a couple of people during that time. So when viewing the story you don't have sides sort of, as you don't know the full picture. I really enjoyed it as it seemed realistic. I preferred their argument scenes to other films as it felt, quite raw and they both seemed selfish. It's like they just got married because that's what people do. So many people do that! We see so many films that show the love story so I really enjoyed just seeing them going through the real part. I think the length of film was perfect because we don't see that story too often. We needed to feel it. I was hella anxious and stressed watching it but needed to see it, I guess. The ending was perfect I feel because they weren't nasty people, the divorce made them that way so the end was how they are as people. Moving forward and caring for their son as they weren't those people that forget the kids during that time. I did have to fast forward some parts though as it was raising my cortisol levels lol but I did enjoy it.
Why ppl are afected from a divorce as if somebody close to them died? Is it in fact a divorce, the ''funerals'' to one of our ambitions who died inside of us and is hard to accept it, hard to reconise that we was wrong and we fail!? It may be this the reason why for some, the once with a big ego, is hard to let go and are causing troubles? Beeing afraid to lose I think is a stop to the evolution and a way to depression... Thank you Dr. Grande, for your dedication and your educative work!
This is an incredible analysis wow. I've never heard someone talk about this movie so in depth, thank you. This is such an incredible movie, if you are thinking about watching it, do. This movie is just such a beautiful perspective on not only divorce, but how their love for each other isn't fully gone, but just different because they now have no romantic feelings for each other. Thanks again for this amazing video.
I liked that they included the last scene, maybe the scene should've been more grounded but like you said, the movie was long already. I'm stating this as someone in a long term relationship: sometimes in fights or break ups, in this case the divorce, you forget that you feel something for the other person. You focus so much on the problem that you don't realize you had or still have feelings for the other person and that was the reason all the fights ensued. That scene was I think the way of conveying that, that even though the relationship is in the past, doesn't mean they don't care or even still have feelings for each other. Kinda like a way of conveying that feelings are not a turn on/turn off thing.
Interesting and thought-provoking analysis. Thank you. I really enjoyed the movie, which came as a bit of a surprise! I rooted for the son the whole way through and all my focus was on whether they were going to consider his needs with wisdom, intelligence and good parenting! I didn't particularly care about whether the adults went through a messy divorce or not, or whether they were able to resolve their difficulties or not.
I just went through a highly contentious divorce from an abusive husband. I still have nightmares about court. I definitely would not want to watch a story on divorce for my entertainment! Lol!
SidheKnight If you are asking me..I’m okay. I have been being treated for PTSD for about 10 years and I journal. The problem with emotional/mental abuse is you hurt but you don’t always know why because your abuser slides in insults and cruelty in to regular conversations and it’s causes mind bombs. When you are in a quiet moment is blows up in your mind and breaks your heart. I used to ask him to beat me so at least I could see the pain he was inflicting on me!
I will definitely watch this film after seeing your video! Thank you! BTW the consultation-with-many-attorneys tactic was very well portrayed in The Sopranos.
I worked for a divorce/criminal lawyer throughout my career. Divorce often leads to criminality and criminality often leads to divorce. I won't watch this. I started once and only lasted a short way into the movie. I did, however, listen to your take on the movie, which I enjoyed much more than the movie.
The part, Dr. Grande, that I didn't understand what you said was: They didn't start the movie out with them Falling in love. We don't know if they were in love. If ever. Well, since you called them narcissistic, What does love have to do with it ? Narcs Don't love, right?
There's a huge difference between "being narcissistic" or having narcissistic traits, and actually having narcissistic personality disorder. Most people will display some levels of narcisstic behavior, or behavior that can overlap with ideas of narcisstic behavior at times or in certain situations without being narcissists. Grande didn't say they had NPD.
This is great. I’m interested in psychology, philosophy and film. I think that films can drive home psychological and philosophical points in an expressive way if the filmmakers behind those films are informed and careful about how they present psychology. If you have time and are interested I’d be interested to see an analysis on Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver (1976). This film is a character study in itself so I’d be interested on your points of view of the character and film. They are a couple of studies on the film and character but I would be interested to see your point as you are scientifically informed and are specialised in the field. I love this and hopefully there will be more in the future. Thanks
I’ve never seen this movie. One of my favorite movies is, Under the Tuscan Sun with Diane Lane. It’s about starting a new life after divorce. The movie gave me hope and made me laugh.
Can you cover the crusty old case of Betty and Dan Broderick? I have heard speculation he was narcissistic and she was exhibiting borderline traits with acute psychosis. I want to know if others are interested in you weighing in on this tragic string of events. This drama seems to be hot these days. I've...avoided many videos on it but I can't resist a deeper analysis! Thanks Doc.
I got this movie. They're both decent people fighting for their best lives. The conflict comes from neither of them having to compromise for the sake of the other. I disagree with you Dr Grande, she did so much compromising during the marriage, just waiting for the promised stint in her home town that was never going to eventuate. This movie highlited the futility of his inability to compromise. In the end he’s living the compromise that he refused to during their marriage but it's cost everyone all of that pain.
I agree. There is at least two scenes where Charlie admitted that they had proactively talked about doing some time in LA, but he never took her desires seriously. So to villainize Nicole over that, is not necessarily fair. That being said, like all of us humans who have had failed relationships, those red flags were probably very present in the beginning, but when you wear Rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like flags.
The film was inspired by the filmmaker’s own divorce, which was years ago. Perhaps that explains the incongruent ending. I’d be interested in Dr. Grande’s take on one of Noah Baumbach’s earlier films (about his childhood and his parents’ divorce) The Squid & the Whale.
I hope Dr Grande does a video about the fuss when Adam Driver walked out of an NPR interview because of anxiety, choosing self-care in a situation where his anxiety was triggered.
Is “narcissistic” the latest byword for explaining all? The film isn’t about a couple who never was in love; it is about behaviour of partners towards each other when one of them, here the woman, has already come to terms with the end of her marriage.
I don't see it that way either. The both say wonderful, glowing things about each other and seem like friends in various moments, and even fall into the habit of calling each other 'honey' even though they aren't together anymore. They both were trying to be decent to each other and even showed affection for each other, until the lawyers got involved, and their aggressive tactics to smear their opponent caused their clients to look at the issue from the lawyers' point of view and see them as malicious where they hadn't before and view themselves as the victim because that had been the lawyers' narrative, that their client is a saint and their spouse is the devil. The negative framing of their relationship that they were listening to constantly brought all their resentments to the fore and made them larger when mixed with what they were putting each other through emotionally and financially with the divorce proceeding itself. They both had good points and arguments, like when Nicole's lawyer said, "when it's what you want it's an 'agreement' and when it's what she wants it's a 'discussion'." She spent years trying to tell him what she wanted and he just never heard her. Of course, Charlie was made out to be the bad guy because he had an affair, but then you learn that he slept with another woman after he'd been sleeping on the couch for months and they were more or less separated, emotionally even if they didn't still live in the same house, and his reasons for turning to another woman is because Nicole didn't show him affection anymore, emotionally as well as physically, and the infidelity under such a circumstance is not necessarily acceptable but it is understandable. I ultimately feel like they should have stuck to the plan and not involved the lawyers. That WAS Nicole's fault, but I don't have the feeling that she was simply a bad person.
@@moonlily1 I loved this. I could argue about Nicole was not really saying what she wanted anymore, but was living under an expectation based on the beginning of the marriage, that obviously changed with the possibilities while time went on, and Charlie completely dismissing her original desires and just assuming they changed, just because the circumstances changed. I love that they were complex characters and everyone who watched the movie can say something different about them.
@@abbiiON Maybe this conflict could have been preventable if they'd be conscious of it throughout their relationship and addressed issues as they presented themselves, but that's not always something you have complete control over. Sometimes relationships fall into a pattern of uneven compromise where all the sacrifice falls on one person, but no one plans it that way and the couple aren't even conscious of it. The person who finds themselves doing all the compromising might not have minded it the first time, the second, or even the third, until over time it's built up and resentment begins to grow without you being aware of it; the person who is used to being accommodated might be so used to it that they don't think about it anymore and don't see how much sacrifice is being made on the other end. I think Charlie really didn't know that Nicole wanted something different than the life they'd made and it seemed to him as if it had come out of the blue when it hadn't really, but then again, Nicole probably hadn't been expressing her desires all that clearly or strongly until she started really getting pissed. Both were at fault and maybe things didn't have to be that way, but once they'd turned a certain corner there just wasn't any going back.
The divorce in this movie was like a cake walk compared to my parents' 5 year process of divorce back in the 80s and 90s. So I personally don't think that this was too agonizing or p. My parents dragged me into it too and I really would have appreciated being the kid in this movie who was not used as a tool by the parents.
I thought the same things while watching this movie. The kid in this movie had it good compared to my brother and I. If people think this movie is to stressful to watch, a movie about my parents would be like watching horror film.
Yep. Plus the ongoing contention and mutual parental alienation that often occurs even decades after the divorce. I actually really loved the ending, because even if it wasn’t realistic for many, it gave me hope that divorce doesn’t have to be a soul-destroying lifelong catastrophe, like it was for my parents. Lol 🙃
You must admit though the song scene ‘being alive’ performed by Adam Driver is just oh so great moving genuine and a quintessence of I’d say desperate love. People get really confused as to what real love is. But that’s another matter.
What I found interesting about this movie was the marriage undone by a failure to compromise by both parties. There were other issues, but that was the deal breaker. After all the breakups, Charlie makes some of those accommodations that he might have to make the successful to begin with. And Nicole begins to. I’ve seen this happen to people. They get out on their own and find out the rest of the world doesn’t work that way
It didn’t seem to me Nicole was lured to hire an attorney all of a sudden. In an early scene of the movie, the couple was sitting with a therapist to express their initial feelings of each other. Nicole couldn’t read the letter and stormed out in a rage while Charlie was calm with that. It came across to me that Nicole was more in emotional pain than Charlie. And I think she has repressed resentment for the possible fact that Charlie could be emotionally distant in the marriage and that explained how she was lured to act in that repressed anger.
Do you think Nicole seemed narcissistic before the moment of separating or only after? Would Charlie match the profile of a covert narcissist before the separation? I saw a couple of small clues of it but it didn’t seem clear-cut.
I think he was using "narcissist" less in a clinical "you are a narcissist and your narcissism is so bad I recommend you try taking drugs to decrease your negative impact on those you love" sense and more in a milder "these two were being self-centered" sense
Thanks Dr Grande you made my day. I think that men can get caught up in what they want and avoid listening to what their partner wants. Then the wife ends up resentful and willing to burn down the marriage, which shocks the man. Definitely, takes communication from a soft start up from the woman and the ability to accept influence from the man.
I think it hit at the right spot for a lot of people. It kept showing their agony because that's what it was exploring. The agony of caring and yet the inability to grit through the idea of loosing yourself to the new collective identity. I personally feel like Dr. Grande kind of missed the point here and was assessing it from a logical stand point where the movie was actually playing with the irrationality of relationship between a couple. But then again, just like any art, cinema is very subjective. It may hit you at the right spot if you can relate, and if not it can seem like a ball of mess :) And either party is completely right from their own point of view.
Thank you for this insightful review! You said you usually don't like movies that are dramatic the whole way through. Just out of curiosity, could you mention a few films that you really like?
I will never understand marriage. This sounds similar to _Blue Valentine._ It's like Hollywood doesn't have any imagination anymore. The last good, thought provoking movie about a couple was made in 2004. _Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind_ wasn't at all realistic, rather it was based on the supposition: if you could do it all over again, would you? After I watched it, I was at least forced to contemplate things from the past. Thank you, Dr Grande. I wasn't sure if I'd watch this, and now I know I won't. ☺ 🌹👍
Thank you for this review. It was very disturbing to watch it. Despite the fact they may have loved each other or not , what a terrible waste of money and energy! Manipulated by the attorneys, when they could have just talked, about the different expectations and the betrayal face to face..it is not said in the movie but my impression is that they did not a real, honest and active communication. And you are right the end is almost unrealistic. But overall the story is credible: they superficially had a child, they married too early thinking that physical attraction = love, she gave up her career expectations and he took advantage of it, until the bomb of frustration they nicely crafted, exploded upon their face…Sad marriage story…
I think that they mentioned the limiting of options of the other partner when it comes to choosing attorney as a misunderstanding. It's blurry if Nicole deliberately chose to have LA attorney to have an advantage over Charlie. There were also statements made about Charlie painting him as a villain mastermind that weren't true to show how quickly things spiraled out of control and how they slowly started to believe the worst stories about eachother
Thank you for the input, on this movie, I was thinking on watching it, now that you said it, in my opinion I will get more frustrated because of the very similar behaviors in my marriage. I'm watching more videos on traits of a narcissist to educate myself more on them but more important how to deal with them to finally get it that they will never change instead I need to learn on how to heal myself. Thank you so much🤲 God Bless you🙏
Nice job! I agree that both of them are narcissistic and not prepared for sacrifice. From their discussion i had a feeling that she pushed for a marriage like it was some tool for her to escape her fame and he clearly was not ready. Please, please analyse french movie My King (Mon Roi) from 2015. It is from "female perspective" and very interestingly done.
Yes my sympathies shifted as I observed a lack of conscientiousness in Nicole perhaps aroused by the affair but she struck me retrospectively as perhaps more of an opportunist with an under-developed sense of self
Hi Dr. Grande, I love your videos and would be very interested in your opinion on Gwyneth Paltrows new Netflix show, specifically the first episode (only one I've seen) It is about psychedelic psychotherapy. Please keep up your great work!
It seems to me that if you don't think it was a boring movie, your discomfort is not about being accustomed to marriage and divorce issues, it's about your ability to feel the pain, with both types of empathy. Thank you for your comments. You saved me from watching that sad movie 🙂
I'm not sure you're aware of the irony (or hypocrisy) in your comments about "it went on too long" and the "agony" of the divorce went past your 'I got it" moment... how so? Well... early on you mention that divorce for the participants IS 24/7... and people don't have an interest in listening to you go on and on and on... it's exhausting, or tiring, or depressing. Yeah... we get it. Your HUMAN RESPONSE that is very natural is just a reminder that people going thru ANYTHING personal and emotional (and financial, etc) is often times too much for us. We have to tune it out so we can get back to our miserable lives. As an aside... remember that narcissists LOVE to hear your sob stories, use the vulnerability to their advantage against you and experience schadenfreude... so we even need to be hypervigilant in our efforts to find people to support us. Thus, support groups usually have one 'secret' asshole amongst them. Just all around another reminder IT'S HARD TO BE YOU... and you and you and you and you... and me. Be careful out there.
I really enjoyed this movie a lot! My husband hated it and he was pissed at Scarlett Johansen's character lol. I guess for me it was interesting to see divorce unfold and how two.people get to where they're at. I also enjoyed Dr.Foster on Netflix. Now that was so stressful and tragic to watch 😫
6:33 so, Nicole has passed her prime and isn't a popular actress anymore decides to move to LA from NY when a glimpse of resurrecting her carrier came around (she didn't care about her kid or Charlie nor did she care about infidelity until it became useful to her). Charlie has cheated on her because she withheld sex. Also she was the one to break an agreement about lawyers. And btw who has initiated a divorce? No bad characters, sure.
I don’t have Netflix, so I haven’t seen it....but just from what I’ve heard...her decision to move their kid far away from his father....that should not be allowed. I thought there were already rules on that. As he said, sacrifices need to be made once you have kids.
That's what burned me up about the film. She took his child from him and her son away from his father for the slim possibility of her own fulfilment. He was the one who really lost everything and had to bend over backwards. Very depressing story.
Be aware that may attorneys coach client's into setting up their spouse to trip legally advantageous events. The wife poking at the husband hard enough to get him to lose it and her get a restraining order and eviction. Now she has possession of the house even though she is the one initiating the divorce and should move out. Or fain an illness to trigger a loophole to get the court to let her stay in the house. There are more but these are the ones my ex used.
Well, as a doctor, I do enjoy watching shows like Grey's Anatomy or House M.D., because I like to point out the mistakes the cast members make. Btw, Dr. Grande, I have a special petition, which is, if you could make an analysis on Annalise Keating, the main character from ABC'S "How To Get Away With Murder" (played by Viola Davis).
Are there any movies which depict, this painfully, what it is like when a married couple who don't love each other stay together? I know 'Divorce Bad' But sticking with a marriage that is not working can be bad too. On the child too. I heard that from a Friend.
I can't really think of one off the top of my head. But you bring up a good point, next we need to have a modern, raw, and truthful movie about people who stay together but absolutely hate each other's guts. Blink-182 sing about it "staying together for the kids".
Thank you for reviewing this. I have not watched this movie on Netflix because I was like, barf, another Hollywood idea of marriage. Therefore I had no idea about it being about divorce, etc. I still do not ever seeing me watch it.
Seeing as you've watched this, can you do one on Blue Valentine? I think it's the better movie, it's also about divorce if I'm not mistaken but it focuses on how the separation happens rather than the divorce proceeding itself.
Due to our hurricane, I'd like to wish strength to all Europeans this weekenend and the beginning of the next week. Stay at home, grab your pet, listen to the Dr.'s calming voice (at least as long as your internet connection isn't impaired..), distract yourself a bit. Good luck, stay strong, it will soon be over! 🌈💗💗💗💗💗🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
At the experience level, it is super realistic. It was almost seeing my parents' divorce all over again. The fight scene is so authentic that it was a bit triggering but cathartic at the same time. My parents had almost similar things at the fighting scene with us listening in our room, and my dad punched the wall in the same way. It still shows love and the different emotions with a fading relationship. I liked it a lot. It was exactly how we all experienced it. Two good people who hurt each other beyond endurance and have to live through that chaotic state to get something positive out of it. Maybe the agony that was shown is because that's how it feels. For all involved. For the couple and those in between (children). It's like hell on earth. Everything feels on fire. I don't feel they were narcissistic. We all have neuroticism. I feel more like two people with different interests who didn't hit it off and couldn't make it work. They don't look in love because what you're seeing is the decline of a couple.
This movie really stressed me out, partly bringing up feelings from my divorce. But I really liked your comment about these people not really understanding what marriage is. I have seen it in real life too - people who divorced because they dont actually understand how to be married, or just because they arent happy in the moment.
Hi Dr Grande, just wanted to say, I don't think Nicole visited the other lawyers as a nasty fighting technique to lessen Charlie's choices in lawyers. Earler in the movie, Nicole says her sister took her to see a few different lawyers, but she didn't like them. I think this was an innocent move on Nicole's side, which Charlie's side interpreted as a nasty move. This subtle show don't tell way heightens the quality of the movie for me.
I don’t think that she was a narcissist. She felt eclipsed by him. Her goals were pushed aside and ignored. It all built up and she had an extreme reaction. She was gasping for air. Sometimes when people feel backed into a corner they come out swinging. If they had better communication, they could have handled things differently, but they didn’t.
It’s a cautionary tale of what happens when you don’t share your feelings with your partner imo lol They all act like everything is fine when it’s not. It was driving me nuts lol
I loved this film, terrific acting. Why did I have more compassion for Charlie as well as Ted in Kramer vs. Kramer?(even though I’m a woman). I need to see it again. If I remember correctly this story was somewhat based on Noah Baumbach’s divorce from Jennifer Jason Leigh.
I haven't seen the film Marriage Story, but the way you described it reminded me of the film Closer. Closer purposefully leaves out parts of the relationships depicted there and only shows key moments that change the course of the characters' romantic lives. Would be interesting to know what you think about their personalities, even if the film is now rather old and maybe not so well-known anyway.
Thanks for discussing this! I enjoyed the film, and I wondered whether the characters were realistic enough. Spoiler alert. I knew she was Bowie immediately 🤭. The costumes were impressive
It really resonates with me that this movie was missing any persuasive indications that these two were ever in love. Like you say, maybe that was the point, but I think I remember hearing baumbach say he wanted to write a love story through the lens of divorce? Which would’ve been way more interesting and complicated, in my opinion, and would invoke questions about whether/how someone is able to fall out of love with someone who mattered so much to them, even to the point of that love turning to hate. Without a convincing impression of the couple having been in love once, the pain of the movie was imo less nuanced. As it stood the pain of movie was in the the logistics of divorce and career aspirations and geography than about the pain of combattive and contradictory feelings toward someone you loved (or thought you loved) enough to marry. But I’m curious if I am missing something-like Dr. Grande said, it was a long movie.
I really disliked this movie. Great acting though. I was curious about your take on it because I wanted to challenge my bias in favor of the husband. You didn't change my mind. True that they were both naive but in my opinion she was portraited as a person without conscience and mature emotions. To her advantage she allowed a feminist lawyer to destroy the father of her son and never questioned her tactics because she felt entitled of everything. When did she decided to get divorced? Only when she realized that he cheated on her... who cares if they didn't make love for over a year before it happened right? wrong. In her mind she had lost so much by getting married that she had to compensate.... (apparently having had a son wasn't of any value). Isn't it obvious that the big looser in the movie is the husband?
Paul Roster Don’t think blame is helpful. People escape to black and white film but exist in yin-yang. Wish we lived in Disney-like romance. Until that (once upon a) time, believe a slice-of-life is in order and Marriage Story (like Joker) puts it on the table. You might like Kramer vs. Kramer. Another separation story but with depth, character development and less narcy drama, imo.
I started watching the movie and stopped for most of the reasons you describe. I do think most people marry because of their false beliefs about what marriage will give them - and a large proportion of that is to please 'society' - to attain the approval of family and community. Very few people are mature enough to see through all the myths and indoctrinations. Both male and female seem to want a rescuer and many want children because they need to be loved, not necessarily because they want to provide love. In that way, I suspect that one of the messages of the movie that you mentioned is useful for those who had the staying power to sit through to the end: To recognize that our youthful fantasies cannot match up to the complexities and stressors of marriage and parenthood.
Our culture tells us that love is just a big, wonderful emotion. I learned from my children what love really is. They taught me that real love is always doing the right thing by the other person even if you're incredibly angry with them. When an entire culture's view of love is just a big emotional high how is marriage supposed to survive? All relationships are going to have tough times. If we can't behave in loving ways regardless of how emotional we may feel there's not much chance for marital success.
Very wise words.
I agree
What struck me was the last scene where the father literally became a ghost as the mom, the kid, and the new boyfriend invited him to go trick or treating. It spoke volumes about what it's like to be the non - custodial parent..
That wasn't the last scene. The last scene has father carrying the child to his car. Also, just before Halloween, the child wanted the dad to read to him, so he wasn't excluded
@@talorix Damn... You really don't empathize with him at all. What is it like to live like that? Do you really walk around making judgements about the world without any thought for what someone else might feel?
@@treesap2 No, David. No. You are wrong. I was not trying to be unemphatic to Charlie. I was focusing on the kid because it's his life that is just evolving in front of our eyes. He has a dad and a mom who are no longer together and who don't know better.
@@talorix And the OP was talking about Charlie... So, I don't know what we are talking about. The imagery was purposeful and astounding. He is literally haunting the new "happy" family. Given that OP was referring to that and you immediately attempted to reframe it away from the point, I would suggest that indicates a lack of empathy.
@@treesap2 I see what you mean, sorry, I do have a lack of empathy
I think dr Grande is a closet film critic:)
I think you could be RIGHT on that haha!
God I hope so. I don't like giving my money to Hollywood. I really like his takes on them.
A profile in the guise of a movie review? I didn't see this but these characters don't appear that great. It reminds of a book "A Day in the Life" about two privileged people who crash their lives despite being such. Privilege is useful but can also be hazardous. This book wasn't about divorce.
No on this one Grande is wrong, and I am huge fan of Dr Grande
I really like Adam Driver as an actor; I think he's highly underrated and could quite possibly be one of the most gifted actors of our time. That said, I had a very contentious divorce, and 11 years after the divorce, a very contentious custody battle once the youngest was old enough to fend mostly for herself without diaper changing, day care, etc. So the movie was very good, but very difficult for me to watch. I shed more than a few tears during this movie; mostly for Henry. The analysis was spot on, I thought.
Oh, something I liked about the movie too is how it portrays this feeling of not really knowing the person you thought you knew. At the beginning of the movie, they agree they won't use attorneys and all of a sudden Nicole has hired one and Charlie can't even talk directly to her. It was annoying and infuriating, but, at the same time, I enjoyed watching a scene that resonated with me and that I identified with. It's awful to be with someone and, like you said, see things going bad so quickly, and having this sensation that you don't recognize this person and why she suddenly started doing all of these things.
Because agreeing on not using attorneys was about as useful to him as her never going back to LA to work. Look who benefited from both. Had he thought he would win with an attorney, believe me he would have gotten one earlier just like he got a piece of ass from the state manager. Charlie was always about himself.
‘Divorce Story’ seems to be a more accurate title but maybe that’s less appealing to audiences. Thank you for this analysis.
No. It's a story about a marraige
There’s already a “Story of a divorce” movie. It’s Iranian I think and very well made. I believe is in IMDB top 250.
150% agreed, I keep telling people it's either bad marketing or disingenuous marketing. Movies poorly named like this spread toxicity as to what marriage should *not* be and itself is gaslighting the public that it claims to support.
@@vmitradkwondofytr480 The title is exactly what the movie is about. It is about marriage. In this case, the ending was divorce. The essence of the movie is that in marriage or any type of relationship for that matter we will end up hurting each other. It cannot be avoided. There will always be hardships. The question is whether we learn to communicate and hear the other person or: If we hold on to our own view of how things are, unwilling to see our part in it and work it out. The protagonists couldn't work through their problems, Thus, the ending was divorce. So, yes it is a movie about marriage in general, in particular, one that ended in divorce despite of the love the couple had for each other.
The beginning of your marriage breaking down is pretty much the most terrifying time, especially when kids are involved. Everyone told me to lawyer up, go on the offensive, this is a war, etc. But that has never been who I am. So, as scared as we both were, we worked together as much a possible. Years after being physically separated (divorce almost done), things are peaceful. As much as I grew to hate him for all the cheating and lies, I'm glad I was able to keep my head. Kids need two healthy parents.
Very spot on, and I'm very grateful you articulated all your points so meticulously. I was getting tired of hearing comments like "oh it was too sad" "oh i didn't enjoy it at all lol". It wasn't meant to be enjoyable! Despite its obvious weaknesses (too long, maybe too aggressive in its dramatic aspect), I'm firm in my belief that stressful and emotionally-violent movies like this one are just as necessary as the happy and aloof relationship movies.
Thank you for doing it justice with your review!
Didn’t know what to make of this movie so BLESS dr. Grande, our most trusted arbiter of all things psychological, we can always count on you!!! ;)
A subtle theme was that of enmeshment. Nicole’s mom lacked boundaries and Nicole displayed the classic combo of lacking a sense of self and some entitlement that is common in kids with emotionally needy parents that lack boundaries (family therapist here). I agree. It was a stressful film to view and I think it would have been nice to have had some relief from the intensity from time to time.
Why does Dr. G always know what I just watched on Netflix? Its like hes in our minds. pff. ;)
I didn't think that the movie dragged on the suffering too much, but it may be because I don't see that everyday, like you mentioned. It was indeed painful and agonizing to watch, but I like movies like that sometimes and I think it honors the hardships people go through. It was supposed to be unpleasant and it was for the whole movie. I didn't know how realistic it was, so it was an interesting analysis. I like your movie/characters analyses.
Whew!! Married 22 years and divorced for 30. He remarried but I could never “pull the trigger” again. I supported myself and made my life very happy and productive. My friends who have been married 50-ish years are very unhappy now. Kids are grown and their spouses control the TV remote, spending, comings and going’s, etc. They are lucky to get out for lunch once a week and always have to take a treat home to hubby so he won’t be grouchy or mad. Marriage isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
As a divorced parent (my kids a are 32 and 31), I learned early that I needed to love my kids more than I hated my ex.
My ex became abusive and used the kids. He hated being alone and me more than he loved our kids. My kids are both very different humans at 15 than they were at 8 when the abuse started. I got out after 3 years, but damage was done. How can a parent do that to a child!
Leave it to Dr Grande to describe budding love as ‘emotions and illogical thinking’ 😂 This movie was very depressing to watch and the characters were quite unlikable.
Ha! Yes I caught that and definitely has a chuckle!
I just watched this! Was always a fan but you're really churning out great content lately
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for that analysis. I really felt like it resonated with me, as someone who has been through divorce. Fortunately, there were no children involved, and minimal contact with the legal system. But the interpersonal dynamics of the couple becoming enemies without really wanting to was familiar to me.
I also want to say that I am a new subscriber, and your topics and analysis are helpful to me in seeing my own and others’ behavior in a more objective way so that I can try to be a better person and also not be as troubled by others’ negative behavior. Thanks!
Dr. Grande, can you do a video on the affects of social media and mental illness? Does social media exacerbate mental illness or does it attract people who already have some sort of issues?
Aaron effects*
@@dewilew2137 thanks, I know you're, your, and were, where. But affect, effect always screws me up.
There is a good two part documentary on TH-cam about social media’s impact on mental health. Sam Vaknin/ Richard Grannon. Easy to find.
@@Aaron-kj8dv You take criticism well. I also like your idea/request.
Adam Driver looks like someone tried to draw Keanu Reeves by hand
😂😂😂
Vallis Daemonum 😂
Wait what??? 🧐How did you even think of this??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m dying!!!
All I could think of while watching this was Ben Solo 😂
That's hilarious but I think you just ruined every future Adam Driver movie for me
This was excellent, you touched so many important points in this movie.
It was indeed heartbreaking, hard to watch and there is so much to be said about it. However what stuck with me was the difficulty to sacrifice from both ends.
Wonderful job as always Dr. Grande!
I agree with just about everything you said but I wish you had mentioned the letters they wrote to each other and how you felt about that. I feel like we were supposed to believe that if Charlie had read Nicole's letter earlier, then maybe things would have gone a different way. I don't think that's very realistic, but they made it so dramatic with Charlie finally reading it at the end. Would have loved to hear your take on that part of it.
this is the movie my father would have made about our life if he were alive and would have been furious that he wasn't perceived as a victim but a self-interested narcissist instead. thanks Dr Grande for the validation :)
🌹🌹🌹
Thank you for the analysis
Next time watch a comedy Dr. Grande for your own sake!
LOL that was funny
I think that people have a tendency to approach this movie with the inclination to try to decide who's right and who's wrong and choose a side and miss the point. They're both right and they're both wrong, and there's no side to be on, except the child. The hope should be for them to get past their rage, move on with their lives, and make the best decision for their child.
Thanks for saving me from watching this film
It’s a really good movie! It made me cry lol
It's an excellent movie!
I found this film to be very intelligent and yes challenging, so if you don't like to have intelligence and and a challenge stay away, there is always some action movies
It was like meeting a couple and befriending a person when they were going through a divorce. Like, you missed the part when they were together but were along for the ride/support of their divorce. That's what it reminded me of as I have met a couple of people during that time. So when viewing the story you don't have sides sort of, as you don't know the full picture.
I really enjoyed it as it seemed realistic. I preferred their argument scenes to other films as it felt, quite raw and they both seemed selfish. It's like they just got married because that's what people do. So many people do that!
We see so many films that show the love story so I really enjoyed just seeing them going through the real part. I think the length of film was perfect because we don't see that story too often. We needed to feel it.
I was hella anxious and stressed watching it but needed to see it, I guess.
The ending was perfect I feel because they weren't nasty people, the divorce made them that way so the end was how they are as people. Moving forward and caring for their son as they weren't those people that forget the kids during that time. I did have to fast forward some parts though as it was raising my cortisol levels lol but I did enjoy it.
Why ppl are afected from a divorce as if somebody close to them died? Is it in fact a divorce, the ''funerals'' to one of our ambitions who died inside of us and is hard to accept it, hard to reconise that we was wrong and we fail!? It may be this the reason why for some, the once with a big ego, is hard to let go and are causing troubles? Beeing afraid to lose I think is a stop to the evolution and a way to depression... Thank you Dr. Grande, for your dedication and your educative work!
This is an incredible analysis wow. I've never heard someone talk about this movie so in depth, thank you. This is such an incredible movie, if you are thinking about watching it, do. This movie is just such a beautiful perspective on not only divorce, but how their love for each other isn't fully gone, but just different because they now have no romantic feelings for each other. Thanks again for this amazing video.
Nichole became malicious after meeting with the lawyer in my opinion.
Yep, it’s what many divorce lawyers want. They make more money when you’re angry and vindictive.
You'd make a fine film critic Dr.Grande. You have a fallback plan. 😄 Thanks for this critique. I think you're right.
I liked that they included the last scene, maybe the scene should've been more grounded but like you said, the movie was long already. I'm stating this as someone in a long term relationship: sometimes in fights or break ups, in this case the divorce, you forget that you feel something for the other person. You focus so much on the problem that you don't realize you had or still have feelings for the other person and that was the reason all the fights ensued. That scene was I think the way of conveying that, that even though the relationship is in the past, doesn't mean they don't care or even still have feelings for each other. Kinda like a way of conveying that feelings are not a turn on/turn off thing.
Interesting and thought-provoking analysis. Thank you.
I really enjoyed the movie, which came as a bit of a surprise!
I rooted for the son the whole way through and all my focus was on whether they were going to consider his needs with wisdom, intelligence and good parenting!
I didn't particularly care about whether the adults went through a messy divorce or not, or whether they were able to resolve their difficulties or not.
I just went through a highly contentious divorce from an abusive husband. I still have nightmares about court. I definitely would not want to watch a story on divorce for my entertainment! Lol!
Abusive how?
I agree..I divorce in 2002 and I am still having issues from time to time..weird triggers. Maybe I shouldn’t watch it either.
I hope you're Ok..
SidheKnight If you are asking me..I’m okay. I have been being treated for PTSD for about 10 years and I journal. The problem with emotional/mental abuse is you hurt but you don’t always know why because your abuser slides in insults and cruelty in to regular conversations and it’s causes mind bombs. When you are in a quiet moment is blows up in your mind and breaks your heart. I used to ask him to beat me so at least I could see the pain he was inflicting on me!
Oh boo hoo
i’ve never even seen this movie but u best bet i’m gonna watch this IMMEDIATELY
In the top 5 of the year for me easily.
This is so needed. Been asking myself questions about it.
I will definitely watch this film after seeing your video! Thank you! BTW the consultation-with-many-attorneys tactic was very well portrayed in The Sopranos.
I worked for a divorce/criminal lawyer throughout my career. Divorce often leads to criminality and criminality often leads to divorce. I won't watch this. I started once and only lasted a short way into the movie. I did, however, listen to your take on the movie, which I enjoyed much more than the movie.
We dont care were u worked
@@matthewreynolds2531 what a jerk u are.
Never seen it, but I'll check it out. I trust your judgement...but sounds all too realistic which isn't pretty. Thank you 😊
I watched this film yesterday! Thank you for posting this!!
The part, Dr. Grande, that I didn't understand what you said was: They didn't start the movie out with them Falling in love. We don't know if they were in love. If ever. Well, since you called them narcissistic, What does love have to do with it ? Narcs Don't love, right?
There's a huge difference between "being narcissistic" or having narcissistic traits, and actually having narcissistic personality disorder.
Most people will display some levels of narcisstic behavior, or behavior that can overlap with ideas of narcisstic behavior at times or in certain situations without being narcissists.
Grande didn't say they had NPD.
This is great. I’m interested in psychology, philosophy and film. I think that films can drive home psychological and philosophical points in an expressive way if the filmmakers behind those films are informed and careful about how they present psychology. If you have time and are interested I’d be interested to see an analysis on Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver (1976). This film is a character study in itself so I’d be interested on your points of view of the character and film. They are a couple of studies on the film and character but I would be interested to see your point as you are scientifically informed and are specialised in the field. I love this and hopefully there will be more in the future. Thanks
I’ve never seen this movie. One of my favorite movies is, Under the Tuscan Sun with Diane Lane. It’s about starting a new life after divorce. The movie gave me hope and made me laugh.
Can you cover the crusty old case of Betty and Dan Broderick? I have heard speculation he was narcissistic and she was exhibiting borderline traits with acute psychosis. I want to know if others are interested in you weighing in on this tragic string of events.
This drama seems to be hot these days. I've...avoided many videos on it but I can't resist a deeper analysis! Thanks Doc.
I felt really bad for Betty. He just discarded her after he no longer had any use for her.
I got this movie. They're both decent people fighting for their best lives. The conflict comes from neither of them having to compromise for the sake of the other. I disagree with you Dr Grande, she did so much compromising during the marriage, just waiting for the promised stint in her home town that was never going to eventuate. This movie highlited the futility of his inability to compromise. In the end he’s living the compromise that he refused to during their marriage but it's cost everyone all of that pain.
I agree. There is at least two scenes where Charlie admitted that they had proactively talked about doing some time in LA, but he never took her desires seriously. So to villainize Nicole over that, is not necessarily fair. That being said, like all of us humans who have had failed relationships, those red flags were probably very present in the beginning, but when you wear Rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like flags.
The film was inspired by the filmmaker’s own divorce, which was years ago. Perhaps that explains the incongruent ending. I’d be interested in Dr. Grande’s take on one of Noah Baumbach’s earlier films (about his childhood and his parents’ divorce) The Squid & the Whale.
I hope Dr Grande does a video about the fuss when Adam Driver walked out of an NPR interview because of anxiety, choosing self-care in a situation where his anxiety was triggered.
Is “narcissistic” the latest byword for explaining all? The film isn’t about a couple who never was in love; it is about behaviour of partners towards each other when one of them, here the woman, has already come to terms with the end of her marriage.
I don't see it that way either. The both say wonderful, glowing things about each other and seem like friends in various moments, and even fall into the habit of calling each other 'honey' even though they aren't together anymore. They both were trying to be decent to each other and even showed affection for each other, until the lawyers got involved, and their aggressive tactics to smear their opponent caused their clients to look at the issue from the lawyers' point of view and see them as malicious where they hadn't before and view themselves as the victim because that had been the lawyers' narrative, that their client is a saint and their spouse is the devil. The negative framing of their relationship that they were listening to constantly brought all their resentments to the fore and made them larger when mixed with what they were putting each other through emotionally and financially with the divorce proceeding itself. They both had good points and arguments, like when Nicole's lawyer said, "when it's what you want it's an 'agreement' and when it's what she wants it's a 'discussion'." She spent years trying to tell him what she wanted and he just never heard her. Of course, Charlie was made out to be the bad guy because he had an affair, but then you learn that he slept with another woman after he'd been sleeping on the couch for months and they were more or less separated, emotionally even if they didn't still live in the same house, and his reasons for turning to another woman is because Nicole didn't show him affection anymore, emotionally as well as physically, and the infidelity under such a circumstance is not necessarily acceptable but it is understandable. I ultimately feel like they should have stuck to the plan and not involved the lawyers. That WAS Nicole's fault, but I don't have the feeling that she was simply a bad person.
@@moonlily1 I loved this. I could argue about Nicole was not really saying what she wanted anymore, but was living under an expectation based on the beginning of the marriage, that obviously changed with the possibilities while time went on, and Charlie completely dismissing her original desires and just assuming they changed, just because the circumstances changed. I love that they were complex characters and everyone who watched the movie can say something different about them.
@@abbiiON Maybe this conflict could have been preventable if they'd be conscious of it throughout their relationship and addressed issues as they presented themselves, but that's not always something you have complete control over. Sometimes relationships fall into a pattern of uneven compromise where all the sacrifice falls on one person, but no one plans it that way and the couple aren't even conscious of it. The person who finds themselves doing all the compromising might not have minded it the first time, the second, or even the third, until over time it's built up and resentment begins to grow without you being aware of it; the person who is used to being accommodated might be so used to it that they don't think about it anymore and don't see how much sacrifice is being made on the other end. I think Charlie really didn't know that Nicole wanted something different than the life they'd made and it seemed to him as if it had come out of the blue when it hadn't really, but then again, Nicole probably hadn't been expressing her desires all that clearly or strongly until she started really getting pissed. Both were at fault and maybe things didn't have to be that way, but once they'd turned a certain corner there just wasn't any going back.
The divorce in this movie was like a cake walk compared to my parents' 5 year process of divorce back in the 80s and 90s. So I personally don't think that this was too agonizing or p. My parents dragged me into it too and I really would have appreciated being the kid in this movie who was not used as a tool by the parents.
I thought the same things while watching this movie. The kid in this movie had it good compared to my brother and I. If people think this movie is to stressful to watch, a movie about my parents would be like watching horror film.
Yep. Plus the ongoing contention and mutual parental alienation that often occurs even decades after the divorce. I actually really loved the ending, because even if it wasn’t realistic for many, it gave me hope that divorce doesn’t have to be a soul-destroying lifelong catastrophe, like it was for my parents. Lol 🙃
So! A councillor, a comedian, and a critic! 3 impressive hats!🎩🎩🎩
You must admit though the song scene ‘being alive’ performed by Adam Driver is just oh so great moving genuine and a quintessence of I’d say desperate love. People get really confused as to what real love is. But that’s another matter.
What I found interesting about this movie was the marriage undone by a failure to compromise by both parties. There were other issues, but that was the deal breaker. After all the breakups, Charlie makes some of those accommodations that he might have to make the successful to begin with. And Nicole begins to. I’ve seen this happen to people. They get out on their own and find out the rest of the world doesn’t work that way
It didn’t seem to me Nicole was lured to hire an attorney all of a sudden. In an early scene of the movie, the couple was sitting with a therapist to express their initial feelings of each other. Nicole couldn’t read the letter and stormed out in a rage while Charlie was calm with that. It came across to me that Nicole was more in emotional pain than Charlie. And I think she has repressed resentment for the possible fact that Charlie could be emotionally distant in the marriage and that explained how she was lured to act in that repressed anger.
Couldn't agree more
Do you think Nicole seemed narcissistic before the moment of separating or only after?
Would Charlie match the profile of a covert narcissist before the separation? I saw a couple of small clues of it but it didn’t seem clear-cut.
I think he was using "narcissist" less in a clinical "you are a narcissist and your narcissism is so bad I recommend you try taking drugs to decrease your negative impact on those you love" sense and more in a milder "these two were being self-centered" sense
Good review. You noted some things I sort of thought but couldn't articulate.
Thanks Dr Grande you made my day.
I think that men can get caught up in what they want and avoid listening to what their partner wants. Then the wife ends up resentful and willing to burn down the marriage, which shocks the man. Definitely, takes communication from a soft start up from the woman and the ability to accept influence from the man.
Really good analysis. I didn't buy that they were ever in love either.
I think it hit at the right spot for a lot of people. It kept showing their agony because that's what it was exploring. The agony of caring and yet the inability to grit through the idea of loosing yourself to the new collective identity. I personally feel like Dr. Grande kind of missed the point here and was assessing it from a logical stand point where the movie was actually playing with the irrationality of relationship between a couple. But then again, just like any art, cinema is very subjective. It may hit you at the right spot if you can relate, and if not it can seem like a ball of mess :)
And either party is completely right from their own point of view.
Thank you for this insightful review! You said you usually don't like movies that are dramatic the whole way through. Just out of curiosity, could you mention a few films that you really like?
I will never understand marriage. This sounds similar to _Blue Valentine._ It's like Hollywood doesn't have any imagination anymore. The last good, thought provoking movie about a couple was made in 2004. _Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind_ wasn't at all realistic, rather it was based on the supposition: if you could do it all over again, would you? After I watched it, I was at least forced to contemplate things from the past.
Thank you, Dr Grande. I wasn't sure if I'd watch this, and now I know I won't. ☺ 🌹👍
Thank you for this review. It was very disturbing to watch it. Despite the fact they may have loved each other or not , what a terrible waste of money and energy! Manipulated by the attorneys, when they could have just talked, about the different expectations and the betrayal face to face..it is not said in the movie but my impression is that they did not a real, honest and active communication. And you are right the end is almost unrealistic. But overall the story is credible: they superficially had a child, they married too early thinking that physical attraction = love, she gave up her career expectations and he took advantage of it, until the bomb of frustration they nicely crafted, exploded upon their face…Sad marriage story…
I think that they mentioned the limiting of options of the other partner when it comes to choosing attorney as a misunderstanding. It's blurry if Nicole deliberately chose to have LA attorney to have an advantage over Charlie. There were also statements made about Charlie painting him as a villain mastermind that weren't true to show how quickly things spiraled out of control and how they slowly started to believe the worst stories about eachother
Thank you for the input, on this movie, I was thinking on watching it, now that you said it, in my opinion I will get more frustrated because of the very similar behaviors in my marriage. I'm watching more videos on traits of a narcissist to educate myself more on them but more important how to deal with them to finally get it that they will never change instead I need to learn on how to heal myself.
Thank you so much🤲
God Bless you🙏
Nice job! I agree that both of them are narcissistic and not prepared for sacrifice. From their discussion i had a feeling that she pushed for a marriage like it was some tool for her to escape her fame and he clearly was not ready. Please, please analyse french movie My King (Mon Roi) from 2015. It is from "female perspective" and very interestingly done.
Yes my sympathies shifted as I observed a lack of conscientiousness in Nicole perhaps aroused by the affair but she struck me retrospectively as perhaps more of an opportunist with an under-developed sense of self
Your videos are so addictive.
i cried like 19 times during this movie... but hey... it’s accurate in the hard ways... and that’s life right?
@@chrisneedham5803 Depending on the wine I would cry too 🍷🌊
Hi Dr. Grande, I love your videos and would be very interested in your opinion on Gwyneth Paltrows new Netflix show, specifically the first episode (only one I've seen)
It is about psychedelic psychotherapy.
Please keep up your great work!
It seems to me that if you don't think it was a boring movie, your discomfort is not about being accustomed to marriage and divorce issues, it's about your ability to feel the pain, with both types of empathy.
Thank you for your comments. You saved me from watching that sad movie 🙂
I'm not sure you're aware of the irony (or hypocrisy) in your comments about "it went on too long" and the "agony" of the divorce went past your 'I got it" moment... how so? Well... early on you mention that divorce for the participants IS 24/7... and people don't have an interest in listening to you go on and on and on... it's exhausting, or tiring, or depressing. Yeah... we get it. Your HUMAN RESPONSE that is very natural is just a reminder that people going thru ANYTHING personal and emotional (and financial, etc) is often times too much for us. We have to tune it out so we can get back to our miserable lives.
As an aside... remember that narcissists LOVE to hear your sob stories, use the vulnerability to their advantage against you and experience schadenfreude... so we even need to be hypervigilant in our efforts to find people to support us. Thus, support groups usually have one 'secret' asshole amongst them.
Just all around another reminder IT'S HARD TO BE YOU... and you and you and you and you... and me.
Be careful out there.
I really enjoyed this movie a lot! My husband hated it and he was pissed at Scarlett Johansen's character lol. I guess for me it was interesting to see divorce unfold and how two.people get to where they're at. I also enjoyed Dr.Foster on Netflix. Now that was so stressful and tragic to watch 😫
6:33 so, Nicole has passed her prime and isn't a popular actress anymore decides to move to LA from NY when a glimpse of resurrecting her carrier came around (she didn't care about her kid or Charlie nor did she care about infidelity until it became useful to her). Charlie has cheated on her because she withheld sex. Also she was the one to break an agreement about lawyers. And btw who has initiated a divorce?
No bad characters, sure.
Agree 100%
I don’t have Netflix, so I haven’t seen it....but just from what I’ve heard...her decision to move their kid far away from his father....that should not be allowed. I thought there were already rules on that. As he said, sacrifices need to be made once you have kids.
That's what burned me up about the film. She took his child from him and her son away from his father for the slim possibility of her own fulfilment. He was the one who really lost everything and had to bend over backwards. Very depressing story.
Be aware that may attorneys coach client's into setting up their spouse to trip legally advantageous events. The wife poking at the husband hard enough to get him to lose it and her get a restraining order and eviction. Now she has possession of the house even though she is the one initiating the divorce and should move out. Or fain an illness to trigger a loophole to get the court to let her stay in the house. There are more but these are the ones my ex used.
Attorneys are subject to Professional Conduct. You can make a complaint to the relevant authority e.g. Bar Association.
Can you review Revolutionary Road? I've only seen scenes and it seems intense and like the couple in it doesn't communicate in a healthy manner.
Well, as a doctor, I do enjoy watching shows like Grey's Anatomy or House M.D., because I like to point out the mistakes the cast members make.
Btw, Dr. Grande, I have a special petition, which is, if you could make an analysis on Annalise Keating, the main character from ABC'S "How To Get Away With Murder" (played by Viola Davis).
19:45 - well.
Wow. Wow wow wow.
I interfaced in agreement with Everything you said here.
Absolutely everything.
Thank you.
Excellent analysis. I did like the movie but it was heartbreaking to watch. It hit way too close to home for me.
Are there any movies which depict, this painfully, what it is like when a married couple who don't love each other stay together?
I know 'Divorce Bad'
But sticking with a marriage that is not working can be bad too.
On the child too. I heard that from a Friend.
I can't really think of one off the top of my head. But you bring up a good point, next we need to have a modern, raw, and truthful movie about people who stay together but absolutely hate each other's guts. Blink-182 sing about it "staying together for the kids".
Thank you for reviewing this. I have not watched this movie on Netflix because I was like, barf, another Hollywood idea of marriage. Therefore I had no idea about it being about divorce, etc. I still do not ever seeing me watch it.
It was gut wrenching movie. I liked it and the actors were very good.
Seeing as you've watched this, can you do one on Blue Valentine? I think it's the better movie, it's also about divorce if I'm not mistaken but it focuses on how the separation happens rather than the divorce proceeding itself.
ohhh a good, sad as f*ck movie!
Remember Kramer vrs Kramer?
Due to our hurricane, I'd like to wish strength to all Europeans this weekenend and the beginning of the next week. Stay at home, grab your pet, listen to the Dr.'s calming voice (at least as long as your internet connection isn't impaired..), distract yourself a bit. Good luck, stay strong, it will soon be over! 🌈💗💗💗💗💗🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
At the experience level, it is super realistic. It was almost seeing my parents' divorce all over again. The fight scene is so authentic that it was a bit triggering but cathartic at the same time. My parents had almost similar things at the fighting scene with us listening in our room, and my dad punched the wall in the same way. It still shows love and the different emotions with a fading relationship. I liked it a lot. It was exactly how we all experienced it. Two good people who hurt each other beyond endurance and have to live through that chaotic state to get something positive out of it. Maybe the agony that was shown is because that's how it feels. For all involved. For the couple and those in between (children). It's like hell on earth. Everything feels on fire. I don't feel they were narcissistic. We all have neuroticism. I feel more like two people with different interests who didn't hit it off and couldn't make it work. They don't look in love because what you're seeing is the decline of a couple.
This movie really stressed me out, partly bringing up feelings from my divorce. But I really liked your comment about these people not really understanding what marriage is. I have seen it in real life too - people who divorced because they dont actually understand how to be married, or just because they arent happy in the moment.
Hi Dr Grande, just wanted to say, I don't think Nicole visited the other lawyers as a nasty fighting technique to lessen Charlie's choices in lawyers. Earler in the movie, Nicole says her sister took her to see a few different lawyers, but she didn't like them. I think this was an innocent move on Nicole's side, which Charlie's side interpreted as a nasty move. This subtle show
don't tell way heightens the quality of the movie for me.
I didn’t notice that Nicole was a narcissist, I was too busy looking at Charlie. I probably need to watch it again
I don’t think that she was a narcissist. She felt eclipsed by him. Her goals were pushed aside and ignored. It all built up and she had an extreme reaction. She was gasping for air. Sometimes when people feel backed into a corner they come out swinging. If they had better communication, they could have handled things differently, but they didn’t.
Smart review! Im glad i did see the movie beforehand
It’s a cautionary tale of what happens when you don’t share your feelings with your partner imo lol They all act like everything is fine when it’s not. It was driving me nuts lol
I was JUST watching this last night!
I found this movie SO painful to watch! That one fight scene in his LA rental was something else
I loved this film, terrific acting. Why did I have more compassion for Charlie as well as Ted in Kramer vs. Kramer?(even though I’m a woman). I need to see it again. If I remember correctly this story was somewhat based on Noah Baumbach’s divorce from Jennifer Jason Leigh.
Excellent work.
I haven't seen the film Marriage Story, but the way you described it reminded me of the film Closer. Closer purposefully leaves out parts of the relationships depicted there and only shows key moments that change the course of the characters' romantic lives. Would be interesting to know what you think about their personalities, even if the film is now rather old and maybe not so well-known anyway.
Thanks for discussing this! I enjoyed the film, and I wondered whether the characters were realistic enough. Spoiler alert. I knew she was Bowie immediately 🤭. The costumes were impressive
Hah! You did it again! That was the last movie I watched last night. LOL
It really resonates with me that this movie was missing any persuasive indications that these two were ever in love. Like you say, maybe that was the point, but I think I remember hearing baumbach say he wanted to write a love story through the lens of divorce? Which would’ve been way more interesting and complicated, in my opinion, and would invoke questions about whether/how someone is able to fall out of love with someone who mattered so much to them, even to the point of that love turning to hate. Without a convincing impression of the couple having been in love once, the pain of the movie was imo less nuanced. As it stood the pain of movie was in the the logistics of divorce and career aspirations and geography than about the pain of combattive and contradictory feelings toward someone you loved (or thought you loved) enough to marry. But I’m curious if I am missing something-like Dr. Grande said, it was a long movie.
Ooh, you should do Blue Valentine 😊
Blue Valentines even more stressful to watch in my opinion.
@@jocelyncooper1738 It is SO heartbreaking!
I love watching movies and series; I tried to watch this one but I just got VERY annoyed and bored. I’d love to know if anyone else hated it too!!
I really disliked this movie. Great acting though. I was curious about your take on it because I wanted to challenge my bias in favor of the husband. You didn't change my mind. True that they were both naive but in my opinion she was portraited as a person without conscience and mature emotions. To her advantage she allowed a feminist lawyer to destroy the father of her son and never questioned her tactics because she felt entitled of everything. When did she decided to get divorced? Only when she realized that he cheated on her... who cares if they didn't make love for over a year before it happened right? wrong. In her mind she had lost so much by getting married that she had to compensate.... (apparently having had a son wasn't of any value). Isn't it obvious that the big looser in the movie is the husband?
Paul Roster Don’t think blame is helpful. People escape to black and white film but exist in yin-yang. Wish we lived in Disney-like romance. Until that (once upon a) time, believe a slice-of-life is in order and Marriage Story (like Joker) puts it on the table. You might like Kramer vs. Kramer. Another separation story but with depth, character development and less narcy drama, imo.
I started watching the movie and stopped for most of the reasons you describe. I do think most people marry because of their false beliefs about what marriage will give them - and a large proportion of that is to please 'society' - to attain the approval of family and community. Very few people are mature enough to see through all the myths and indoctrinations. Both male and female seem to want a rescuer and many want children because they need to be loved, not necessarily because they want to provide love. In that way, I suspect that one of the messages of the movie that you mentioned is useful for those who had the staying power to sit through to the end: To recognize that our youthful fantasies cannot match up to the complexities and stressors of marriage and parenthood.