fixing a faulty light with powerful built in fan (awesome chip inside)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2023
- This light contained a chip I've not come across before. A super minimalist chip that operates at full mains voltage and replaces a lot of traditional circuitry. Bright Power S4523B.
Here's the datasheet (not https).
www.bpsemi.com/upload/cn/file/...
The LED driver is also a Bright Power chip with a super low component count. Notably the current sense resistor/s for setting the LED current and the overvoltage setting resistor for limiting the open circuit voltage. Sometimes the current sense resistor hack affects the overvoltage ratio and needs that resistor value tweaked too. Lowering the light power by even just 10% will have a significant effect on the longevity of the LEDs.
The circuitry was made somewhat harder to reverse engineer by the fan power supply chip probably being a clone, and with a very hard to find and extremely vague datasheet in Chinese that gave very little actual data on the chip.
Reverse engineering was made even harder by a rogue deviation from the vague design examples.
The fan runs at 9.5V and 330mA.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
#ElectronicsCreators - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I love how over a hundred year cycle we have come full circle to appliances that connect to a lightbulb socket
I have even seen a Kettle plugged into a light socket with the old Bakelite plug dangling down onto a table with the kettle on the end, back in the 60s, and it worked, but the kettle was an old 1 KW type.
@@MrBobWareham Travel kettle is usually 800w
Bring back the Christmas tree hahaha
It was only a few decades ago that we were on the opposite end of the cycle, the apartment I lived in back then had only 1 overhead light right at the entrance door, the rest were all "supply your own lamp" switched outlets randomly scattered around the walls of every single room. Of course that could've also just been because my landlord was too cheap for light fixtures.
To be fair, ceiling mounted fans are usually connected into the lighting circuit - particularly when combined with a light.
Interesting device. Nice that it uses short on/off mains cycle to change operating mode rather then having to set up a account in the cloud to control it.
I have several things like that. Their state is never predictable: my electric utility blinks off quite frequently. Thanks, Entergy.
>your refrigerator, doorbell and TV have entered the chat
usually they would come with a remote to control the light and fan
@@WineScroungersadly, they can do just that.
Solutions like these can be finicky, and having a separate remote for each device just sucks. There ARE decent home automation solutions that don't involve any cloud crap
Brown Black Gold = 1R (10 x 0.1), Gold = 5%, Black = Wirewound
Thank you!
It has 2 gold bands, I wonder if that is an odd way to show 1% ?
@@terryhayward7905 The first gold is the multiplier: Brown = 1, Black = 0, Gold = x 0.1. The second is the 5%.
Manufacture of first consumer grade 5% resistors was delayed by decades because they had to wait until gold color paint came along. No, seriously before color rings they were all brown paint dipped & a color dot to indicate the resistance. 1K red dot, 100 K yellow dot etc... A radio from that era wouldn't work any better with accurate resistors, still pick up stations fine with +100% / -50% off nominal value
When "E6" invented they had to dip one end in a different color for the extra digit yellow body violet tip & orange spot = 47K
Must be a non standard resistor.
Glad that fixing the broken track didn't make it go kaboom.
I once fixed a broken track on a walkm... portable cassete player/recorder and radio (wasn't Sony) and the thing didn't work. I had also repaired several other tracks due to battery corrosion, but this one was away from the damaged zone and appeared to have been cut with something sharp. Sure enough, everything worked flawlessly after I disconnected it.
CS and GND are swapped on the datasheet because of the 1 and 2 being swapped. GND is pin 1, CS is pin 2
The chip was primarily used in multi-colour lights. The output is connected to a white LED and a yellow-ish LED. Then you can adjust the colour temperature.
Yes I have one in my shower that doubles as a nightlight with a separate ring of amber color LEDs
Interesting. They likely wired the fan as the warm white light.
Definitely interesting. I've seen lamp fixtures with fans, but never lamps themselves. So technically, it'd make the device "The Fannylighter" (or "The Fannyluminator") :)
Instructions unclear: It's a Fannymutilator
And if Clive got the wiring wrong, Fanny Flambeau !!!
@@linuxgreybeard9945
I believe he is never to mention that product again after selling the rights to a copyright scammer.
Given those gaps, it could also be called a fingerbasher.
Or even 'fanlight fannies fan' 😂
Interesting device, especially if the fan could also be made to rotate in the opposite direction, as to illuminate and extract soldering fumes in a workbench.
Thats are awsome idea
It's brushless DC, so swapping two of the winding leads on the little daughterboard should reverse the direction. (A fact that RC pilots know all too well.)
It looks like the fan blade used in this particular device is designed to spin in only one direction.
Thanks for always taking the time to reverse engineer and explain these consumer electronics. I love it when you find new, ingenious circuitry or chips, and I know I'm not alone when I say that I've learned a lot from your videos over the years.
That chip would equally have a nice application in larger ceiling fans with lighting. Normally two wall toggle switches are used to control each function, but in a household room with only one wall switch (2 conductor wire with ground), it could make the operation more practical instead of needing a remote control or reaching for the string light/fan switch. In such a mains to mains connection with a few relays could retrofit existing installations.
There's a million dollar idea. I can hear the infomercial now. (black and white video of frustrated person shaking their head) "How many times has this happened to you? You want the fan and you can't find the remote!" (color video with happy family blown by fan) "You need the Clive-O-Matic!"
I always thought that, when people complain about the heat inefficiency of lights- if you live somewhere that needs heating, you are actually using 100% of the energy (and thought that adding a fan could help circulate the heat). Didn't know they were actually a thing, even if that's not the intention.
Winters do feel colder with LED lighting. On the bright side, inductive loads such as light bulbs are a more expensive option of heating for most people anyway.
@@Mrvideosandgames I never understood why power factor correction isn't regulated by law. For small devices, the impact might be small, but that also means the cap is really cheap to correct it. And if it was required it would all add up.
Or did I misunderstand and you were talking about alternatives like nat gas or heat pumps? Cuz if you are talking about heat pumps especially, it would be amazing if we just pumped heat where it was needed around a house to make every other heat pump (or sink) more efficient- my dream home would be one where that was the case.
@@sophiophile Yeah, I just mean LEDs produce less heat than older types of bulbs, but on the flip side light bulbs aren't a great way to heat your home to begin with when electricity is triple the cost of gas (in the UK) and resistive (sorry, not inductive) heaters use about double the electricity of heat pumps.
Back when things used to have a warranty and worth fixing, we would make tons of money in the shop by fixing manufacturing defects like that open track.
When i was twelve, we had a bathroom light that was an enormous shaped bulb that had an heating element inside it. The idea was that it slightly heated the bathroom, whilst you were in the bath. But i was in the bath one day when it exploded. My (much to my embarrasment) big brother lifted me out of the bath, as every surface, as well as the soap, was covered in glass shards i had a narrow escape as i got hit on my left inner thigh, which burnt but didn't cut and missed anything important. They are no longer manufactured as far as i know. This was about 1966
The infrared heat lamps are still available. They do tend to fail with a bang.
we've gone full circle to the early 1900's, connecting appliances to the light sockets :D
Thank you for the ages that video took you, most impairment. Informative. Crazy that the control track was broken. No resulting explosions or fire when you fixed it, but then you can't have everything. 🙂
Another interesting video, Big C! I couldn’t wait to see what reaction that bridge would cause. Seemed an obvious fault, but one never knows.
yeah, schems shouldn't use NC fpr possible switching pins, normally closed ,not connected
@@AndreasA.S.That schematic as shown with the NC on the mystery trace was not exactly the same chip number. Big C mentioned he had a difficult time finding many of the datasheets. The drawing shown may be a cheaper version without additional functionality of the control pin as the actual chip number ends with a ‘F’.
I love the fact that Clive can cut your electricity bill in half, just by snipping a resistor!
@@birdthrow resistance is futile?
@@birdthrow I had it done years ago... best thing I have ever done. 💯
@@MadScientistGuitarLab golden comment 💀🤣
I still can't stop appreciating the fact you warn us when the light's coming back on.
"Over-volted." I'm going to start using that. "Can't deal with it today, I'm already over-volted."
Excellent quality control as usual.
Very neat fan-light! Thanks for taking the time to figure it out, and fix it. The Bright Power chip is neat because it emulates a traditional three-way lamp control. Could see some applications for that myself!
I did not expect to find you here, love your content btw!
I liked it so much ,I bought one! Slightly different pcb layout and different LED control chip DP9503AB but still has parallel resistors between CS and Grd pins but both SMD and both 1R80. Removed one, now 12W light with fan. Thanks Clive
That was an interesting little evaluation and repair video, Clive. Cheers. You're right about the BLDC fans, they are cheap to make, lightweight for all sorts of applications and don't use much power.
Connecting wires inside the ceiling is traditional in my country and others, often upgraded to a dedicated connection outlet . But mounting a lamp specific bracket (or entire lamp) is also common .
As soon as I saw the bridge rectifier I couldn't help shouting out ElectroBoom style, "FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!!"
As soon as your uncovered the back side picture my eyes went straight to the error in the circuit...like a magnet or something :)
This is a pretty neat little fan/light!
12:10 Anyone else see it? Look at the pin numbering lol! "2-1-3-4" Don't think that is standard. When they made the datasheet, someone inadvertently swapped the pins in the diagram. Makes complete sense when you flip the two pins as then the ground is tied to the local star-point to provide a stable 0V reference, which is a really good idea since you don't want noise screwing with the feedback network. Edit: Not the only one to see it from other comments here, but it would make things confusing for sure.
Looks more like an odd engine firing order than something electronic.. Usual 4 pot is 1-3-4-2 but some are different and that's a viable option although it'd sound odd...
That’s some clever capability on what is ostensibly a rather mundane device. The way of switching between the light and fan is pretty ingenious and handy (avoids having to go to the device to make the selection). Nice work reverse engineering it as well.
A great video to shine a light for your many fans 👍
Did you notice on the data sheet that the CS and GND pins have the numbers swapped on the package outline. The GND pin is numbered 1 but is in the 2 position. So maybe that is the cause of the confusing wiring and datasheet
Yeah I think so too.
This unit are rare here and looks useful for small room
I truly enjoy your work! Thank you from the US!
I wonder if that would make a decent ring light around a macro camera? Obviously a little removal of unneeded parts would be required, but if it is both even enough light distribution, and cheap enough, that might be a worthwhile thing to do.
Brilliantly modified Clive I’m quite impressed with the fan lamp thanks 😊
Funny....I've been seeing these randomly pop up on TH-cam even one from Bell and Howell as of late but the one from Bell and Howell are so far the best ones I've seen
Ahhh... the "Fannyblaster". In pink, of course.
It is indeed the pink fannyblaster. That has completely different meanings depending on where you are in the world.
That BrightPower chip is the same thing used in the "cold white/warm white" lightbulbs you can get at Q&B.
Looks like an interesting light, especially with the fan function as that would help with the current warm weather that you get in a typical UK summer!
I'd personally tame the light down to 10W as shown in the video if using in a smaller room - if using in a larger room, or if a good amount of light was required, I'd use it full tilt at its 25W.
After all, 25W on this will give way, way more light than a 25W tungsten lamp, a 28W halogen lamp, or even a 23W CFL.
Thank you Clive, love your videos.
For some reason I've always had bad luck with anything that uses switch toggling for controls. I just chalked it up to lacking the mental capacity and/or physically dexterity to make the tthings work, but based on this single example in one video I will now simply assert that they were all made with faulty tracks 😂
I love the way you break things open and discover ways to make them work better or in this case - as designed. I have to wonder if the broken trace was intentional. I also wonder if the higher wattage used by the lights is meant to make them burn out faster.
I love 3 phase brushless motor fans. They tend to work a lot better, be more reliable, quieter, and project airflow a lot better. I am a big fan (pun very much intended). It is easier to have them on smaller fans, but i hope to see them more often. It is nice that it is a sensored motor too. people often prefer sensor-less ESCs, but i believe they can be a lot simpler with a simple hall effect sensor. so I tend to like sensored ESCs more, even if they have 2 or 3 hall sensors.
Thanks for the many, many videos that I've watched and enjoyed.
Thanks Bob. That's greatly appreciated.
Phillips has a series of "automatic" dimmer LED lamps. They have 3 light levels. Low, with warm color. Medium with warmer color and High with normal color.
The level is changed by turning the lamp off/on. I guess that chip was designed for that kind of application.
what a interesting light. ive started seeing stuff like this as of recently. even some just a fan that screws into a socket in some cases i see these being nice for really restrained places were even smallest ceiling fan wont fit though.
❤ brilliant 👏 and a good result acknowledges your genius status Clive ❤
NEW & IMPROVED Fan with Light - a *CLIVE Shipped with Every one.* : } BRAVO!
Quite funny that the Edison fixing screws off using a Bayonet motion.
These would actually be really nice in the garage. Especially this time of year when it gets stupid hot out there
I really loved this one. And definitely well worth while.
I think part of the reason why a lot of people in the UK still stick to inches is that they seem to think the alternative is to measure everything in millimetres, when in fact most of the civilised world uses _centimetres_ for "medium-sized" stuff (which is why the ruler is marked in cm, not mm).
inches are better because use less of them to do the job , and only the English made rulers originally .
Plus nearly everything in the world has been inches 19 inch rack 50 caliber 3.5 floppy 0.1 inch matrix 4" block 2 inch multitrack "1/2 inch AF" is secret mechanics tool for 13mm 2 by 2 studding etc. etc.
Hmm, I measure everything in mm or metres. I guess I'm used to it. Metric is all I've ever used, since the early 1970s. 🦘
@@channelsixtysix066the screen you're looking at now is likely a "xx inch" and just about everything electronic you've ever used has been inch-based inside fullsize headphone plug is quarter inch hard drive is 2.5 "
@@jagmarc - Yeah, in the (very few) parts of the world that use inches, everything seems to "be" inches. Imagine that. 😄
@@RFC3514But also many things from industries previously dominated by UK/US . However many modern component pinout grids are now metric by design, such ad 0.5mm grids . Meanwhile bureaucratic fanatics insist on official metric names such as 90mm disks and 47cm televisions .
Very interesting.
Thank you Clive .
✌💚🇬🇧
What an odd product, but I can see how it could be kind of a nice thing to have around. Maybe for one of those desk lamps with the articulating arm.
That looks great… might go look for one or two
Awesome video again, Clive - I'd have loved to see your actions and hear your thoughts processes as you Reverse Engineered it.
Interesting chip but I noticed from the datasheet that the trigger voltage is about 170V peak (=120VAC) which makes me think it would be unreliable on US voltage. On the other hand that might be dependent on the voltage on the HV pin via a voltage divider.
Although it doesn't say how much current it can sink, the data pins can handle up to 30V through a 500 ohm resistance which suggests 60mA so it should be possible to drive a relay directly.
Now if only they were available...
I wonder if that powerful fan would make the fixture dangle around if it were mounted on one of the E27 dangling cords. Would be nice to provide airflow through the room!
You’d end up with a very twisted cord. The fixture provides the counter torque to the rotating blades.
@@robert_g_fbg Hmmm... I wonder if the fan torque direction tends to tighten or loosen the bulb? 😁
@@kimchristensen2175Watching closely, one could see the fan spins right (seen from the front, obviously) so its torque is towards left, tending to loosen the bulb. Surely it has a low torque, but when vibrations add, that could slowly unscrew the fixture. Good spotting of a potential nuisance or even failure mode !
Same logic as the multi-color temp LED systems - you turn the mains on and off (wall switch usually) and it steps through the modes. As long as you go back on before the time out, it will be in the next mode. most of those are cool - warm - combined as three steps, some have a half power mode as well.
I knew that I had seen that type of resistor before. The bandings are Brown = 1, Black = 0, Gold = 0.1 (multiplier), Gold = 5% (tolerance), Black = non-inductive (biflar wound WW).
They are used in inductive sensitive circuits
Edit. Someone said it below 🙂
Good to know!
Very nice it does swing a lot on the end of the light flex in the ceiling 🙂
Self oscillating fan! :-)
Another fantastic and enlightening video. 😐👍
Hi, luv your videos mate keep them comming! take care
Thanks Clive 👍🇮🇪🙏🏻
That's an interesting fan. I might have to look at those.
Well, that was fantastically enlightening. 😁
Good show may man, bravo
That's a curious botch, there, for sure. Never seen a broken trace before. All kinds of other stuff but a broken trace is a first. :) Thanks for sharing.
Congrats on your new king.
Fan-tastic video
Thanks for sharing
In schematic for KP219X ( 10:34 ) chip numbering starts at 2 and then 1. Maybe this is the source of confusion?
Indeed it does. Odd that they did that.
Ha, interesting: a miniature ceiling fan! Yeah, I've seen oscillating mini-ceiling-fans without lights in the Philippines, but this is a little dial back to the traditional type because of the light, although still very small in comparison, so yeah, that's why it's so interesting!
Another great video Clive. These fan lights are very common in Philippines at the market to illuminate produce while keeping the flys away. Would the fan motor run in reverse if the black and red wires were swapped at the molex plug?
No. It would potentially damage the fan.
I have one of these but mine has a small remote control as well, with the remote you can change the light to cool white, natural, & warm white + also dim the light the remote also allows you to change the fan speed 3 settings & also a timer for the fan 1 2 or 4hrs, other than that it's basically the same as the one in the video.
Those plastic fans ... I got a dimplex heater with one which fell off and caught fire on the element almost, shocking
I have seen one which probably uses this chip. The short switching cycle toggles between cold-white, slightly-warm-white and warm-white.
Today, I was inspecting the circuit diagram of a low-integration-level integrated circuit, the 74LS469. It's marked obsolete but it has almost exactly the traits that I need for a design of mine. [It's a low-power-consumption (L) Schottski (S) transistor-to-transistor-logic (TTL) tristate-output eight-stages presettable, clearable, cascadable up/down counter; I'd rather have the much less power-hungry, higher-speed (H) CMOS (C) 74HC469 version]. It was manufactured by several major semiconductor factories in the '80's and '90's. A fact that makes me wonder how that circuit diagram had passed the quality inspection: two of the lines were driven by opposing input signals that would have conflicted and eventually damaged the circuit, whereas nearby logic gates would have been left unconnected, floating inputs. Was that the reason it is obsolete now? Were those errors "copy diagram" ones but the original sent to production was faultless?
Anyway, I've found that there is a similar one, the 74F779, that responds to a similar description: a tristate-output eight-stages presettable, clearable, cascadable up/down counter, in bipolar TTL technology. But, unexpectedly, its data input pins double as outputs, so it could not serve the exact function I was looking for (an incrementable/decrementable, multiplexable parallel transmitter/register to bridge two buses just one way). Everytime I find another such counter, it has features I do not like or lacks some that I need. Oh, well.
I bought one of these light fans expecting the PCB to be the same but it's not quite, e.g. The transformer near the LED connector and the chip near the mains input have swapped places. LED driver is an SIC9536BD
From your modifications, it looks like the chip pins 1 and 2 might be backwards on the diagram.
The numbers are swapped on the chip package in the data sheet image. Pins 1 and 2
That's was good fanservice. 😅
Now all we need is an assessment of the weight and vibration, complete with long-term test connected to a hanging pendant set.
It a 4 band color with the last band is use to state something different about the resistor. Brown, black, gold and gold are use only to determine the resistance.
Thats sound nice bro 😊
Interesting video Big Clive. I didn't catch the fan motors dc voltage rating.
About 9V.
Nice a fan related video you should make more fans videos
I saw something on ebay that is similar and has a remote. And another one with RGB and other features. I pictured Clive with a feather boa!
Makes you wonder if these are tested after assembly. I’m sure they save money by only testing a random sample - if any at all. I’m wondering if the missing track was a fault on only that board or maybe a whole batch?
It would be rare for any QA to test everything though.
Particularly if that was manufactured by a Chineseum crap factory = quality control does not exist in those 😠, ⚠️
Yeah, very weird, that capacitor on the KP219x VCC pin is normally fed from a diode on feedback winding, that would reduce/turn off the constant current trickle internally in chip, thereby increasing efficiency and reduce waste heat in switch regulator.
Hi, I’ve been wondering if it would be possible for you to explain to all of us who are not electronic-engineers the different terms of power factor / kVa and such… Thanks a lot for very educational and entertaining videos!
Awesome Video big clive
Anyone else thinking about getting some of these, a pack of hepa filter paper and you'd have a hepa filter light fixture in every room..
From personal experience hepa paper does improve air quality quite noticeably.
I'd love to see a real close up microscope shot of that defect. Curious if you've found an etching issue in the wild.
Interesting video. What was the power meter you used after the rebuild (with 2 terminals for the flying lead)
Merci.
Very nice fan & light. interesting video 2x👍
What sort of isolation has the chip got? If it fails would it be possible for the mains voltage to get to the LEDs or fan? I know its very hard to get to the workings on this fixture but we have seen many Chinese products were its easy to open the case
The LEDs are directly referenced to the mains supply. The fan does seem to have an isolated transformer, but on a product like this it is unlikely to be safety grade.
Thank you for doing this Clive. this is exactly the kind of fan/light I've been looking for. Would you be so very very kind as to let me know from whence it came, pretty please? 😀
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204280785190
Damn that fan is loud !
OB pin, maybe Operation Bios... Off, On, More On'er...
Thanks Clive.
;)
Very interesting
nice ruler🙂
After watching your videos for many years now, I finally realized you were saying "bayonet." I always thought you were saying bena/bayna, like it was some brand-name for the socket, or an acronym or something. I feel really dumb, lol.
It'll be my accent. It does murder some words.
These have been getting popular lately, specifically the Bell & Howell version