Tesla Powerwall Vs Enphase IQ Battery (2023 UPDATED)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2023
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Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy independent and how to set up your home to run off-the-grid during an emergency. We empower families to take control of their energy generation and storage so that they will never be left in the dark without electricity.
In this video, Joe presents an updated comparison of the Tesla Powerwall and Enphase IQ Battery. Tesla won the first matchup by a single point. This year, Enphase takes the advantage with extra points for LFP chemistry, generator support, and smart load control.
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You missed to explain that the Enphase 10T is more redundant:
- If one of the three included batteries fails, no problem, the other two batteries will continue
- If one of the 12 (3x4) inverters fail, no problem the system fully continues with 1/12 less peak power.
Thanks for the video.
❤
Full Disclosure: I did work with Solar Surge last year in the design of a whole house backup. We did go with 3 Enphase IQ batteries and now have 6 months experience with the system. I cannot comment at all about Tesla.
Thus far I love the Enphase product. Batteries and microinverters have met expectations. What I love though is Enphase support. I have had installer related issues and Enphase support staff has been instrumental in solving those issues. They answer the phone, answer questions, and questions that the rep cannot immediately answer I quickly get a return call with a response. In this world I expect batteries and micro-inverters to work, I am never confident in consumer support promises or recommendations until I experience it. My experience with Enphase is why I love these batteries.
I planned on a V2G system and it would have worked. However, the V2G vehicle that fit the house and driving needs didn't fit the driver needs to comfortably fit this huge body. To save my back I went with a different EV which does not yet have V2G. I will cross that bridge in a number of years when a V2G vehicle exists that is right for me.
The 30kWh home battery storage is much more than enough to run the 5000 sq ft house when AC is not needed. This time of year panels start generating around 7:45AM and end about 5:30PM. 14 hours of no overnight panel input takes the 100% sundown battery level down to about 40% with dryer use, 50%+ without dryer use, before daybreak. I suspect even off the grid we could could go multiple days as long as we have some decent sunlight and practice some minimal conservation. By selectively choosing times (daylight on sunny days) to charge the car we can still be 100% grid independent this time of year.
Admittedly we over designed the system with regard to panels. Can be painful to the mind when the utility does not pay you for electricity you give them (they give a credit up to the amount I buy each month), but it is nice to have a monthly electric bill of $20 or so (have to pay a transmission line fee). The bill will go up big time with AC use.
I wanted the over design (115% of expected yearly home energy use with an EV) because last year we went 8 days without power due to extreme cold. Based on my usage data thus far with this system I''m confident with conservation and sunlight levels that existed during that 8 day outage we never would have been without power. I choose the over design rather than a generator because I wanted a nearly 100% green home (and vehicle)...again, that won't happen when we get those 40-50 days of 100 degree weather in the summer.
Finally, I will add Solar Surge was very helpful in designing the system. I found them to be unbiased and fact based. They provided choices of system designs, batteries and panels, and I made the choices. Never once felt they were pushing one product over another.
Hi Jim. Good to hear from you! Thanks for much for sharing your experience.
We went with 10.6 kW with 27 IQ8A’s and 2 Encharge 10T’s. I have had a similar experience and couldn’t be happier.
It took about 4 months for my utility to receive/install the Net meter. So any excess power I sent to the grid the Utility got for free and then if I wanted to pull power it would be a full price with no credit…. So we set our Batteries to 30% Self Consumption and basically stayed “off” grid for 4 months. I just ran our standard electric water heater after the batteries topped off and then I found it was best to crank the A/C down a little cooler during the day when there was excess power and then turn it up a couple degrees once the sun went down. This made a huge difference.
Also we only dried our clothes after the batteries were charged.
Only time we pulled power from the grid was after a hurricane and a long nor’easter… but that was just for convenience Not necessity.
I too would like a V2G car!! That’s why I over sized the solar. Do you have any pointers with the car? Which car had you initially planned for but ended up not liking?
@@maddeusdoggeus1 First EV was a Lucid. Outstanding vehicle, loved it. But at 6’4”, 285 lbs with a lower back history getting in and out was a chore because the Lucid is low to the ground with a low roofline. After a couple of weeks the back started feeling it. I love my back more than the car. So I sold it for an electric Mercedes SUV. Easy entry and exit. Just doesn’t have bi-directional charging. I suspect in a couple of years V2G will be the norm for all EVs, and I will get one then. Lucid should have their SUV out by then, and Mercedes should have V2G then (they currently have V2G in Japan); so I will likely get a new vehicle then.
@@jamesod347. Sounds like a case for Cybertruck!
Support is key in this industry
We've been living with a all-Enphase 15kW (nominal STC rating) system for almost a year. We have IQ7+ inverters and two 2nd gen Encharge 10T storage modules. We are very happy with the system and the battery performance. The Enlighten app is fairly versatile in allowing customer monitoring and control of the batteries and the system.
May we inquire as to your payback scenario/timeline? How will upgrading spent packs to improved chemistries lengthen/shorten those upgrade/payback lifecycles?
Going to go with Enph. What panels did you go with? Going to prolly go with Sunpower but not sure which panel type yet.
Joe great job, just what I was hoping for. Thank you so much.
Very welcome!
Joe, awesome info as always, thanks for the info!
In the California market the Tesla option to get paid to sell your power into the balancing energy market, I would give the Tesla a couple of extra points.
Joe's comment was unclear and led you to the wrong impression. Any solar power owner can sell unused electricity back to the power company. It has nothing to do with the brand of solar power and has even more nothing to do with owning a battery. This is called Net Energy Metering (NEM) 2.0: The power company currently provides credit for this power at the retail price. Thus you can operate all day on your solar and when you use the power company's electricity at night, it is offset by the credits you generated that day.
California's utility regulatory body has announced NEM 3.0 which will provide credits at the wholesale rate. This means a homeowner is unlikely to generate enough credits to pay for nighttime use. It will be more economical to use excess energy during the day to charge a battery and use battery power during the night. This will increase the sale of batteries from all vendors, not just Tesla. Put another way, the market will lean toward better batteries and away from less good batteries. If Joe is correct in his review, it suggests more people are likely to purchase Enphase than Tesla.
@@emmgeevideo GNiessen was referring to energy balancing aka virtual peaker power plant. This allows selling power in the battery back to the grid during a grid shortage condition. During a grid shortage condition, the wholesale power spikes. In Texas, during the December cold snap, wholesale power was $3 per kWh. My supplier was offering $25 per day for meeting energy conservation goals on the demand side. If I had winterized my pool, I could have met that objective, but my pool pump was running 24x7 to keep the pool and equipment from freezing. Tesla is also able to pilot the virtual power plant in Texas. While Tesla will take a cut out of the wholesale price for itself for remotely controlling exports, exporting power at even $1 per kWh during a shortage can make a significant contribution towards paying off the battery.
Tesla is a scam
Good report, I hope you can deliver an update when the new Enphase batteries are released
Really like both battery systems. Another plus of the Enphase system is that it can be increased 3.4 kW at a time rather than having to buy an entire second or third battery which you may not need. So you could add a 3.4 kw pack to the 10.1 kw pack and get close to the size and surge rating of the tesla battery for a similar total price.
Just doing a price comparison though I see the Enphase 10T is priced at $7500 and the Tesla PW is $8700 but its actually double the Enphase power for just $1200. For that price difference I can not see anyone actually buying the Enphase and, lets be honest I would rather have more power backup and not need it then less back up and need it.
@@rarshaizgaming1988 Since when is 13.5 kWh double of 10 kWh?
Great overall summary, Solar Surge.
Quick distinction -- the Powerwall 2 with Gateway2 offers 5kW continuous power -- it has its own inverter for design when solar pv has its own inverter or microinverters.
The Powerwall+ (Plus) --which has a solar inverter stacked on top of it and a battery inverter integrated with the battery --offers on-grid 7.6kW continuous (full sun) and 5.8kW continuous (no sun; and, 9.6kW continuous (full sun) and 7kW continuous (no sun) off-grid (during power outage).
Great report. Thank you!
Solar Surge does it again.
Great Video.
Thanks I needed that.
The SPAN ad is pretty dead on target. Every time the power is out and we are looking for stuff to turn off to extend the battery - our solar gen is low in winter due to redwoods - it’s a big mystery where the power is going. Span would have made this easier.
One thing about Enphase over the years of installing their product is the annoyance I have with their Current Transformers. The lack of flexibility makes installing Enphase’s current transformers impossible.
Also another annoyance is a system we installed that was a split system (one micro grid system and another non-micro grid system) the only solution Enphase had for us was to drop one main service panel’s consumption data for the non-micro grid PV conductors which was disappointing for the customer.
Have you had annoyances installing Enphases current transformers?
Excellent report, I love this channel. Only mention is that the new California Net Metering is for investor owned utility companies that are 3 companies not the entire state.
Thanks for your excellent summary of both battery systems. We installed two Powerwall-2 batteries in 2018 to complement our 13.2 kW Solar PV system with microinverters. We have been very satisfied with the performance of the Powerwall-2 batteries. We have heat pump and heat pump water heater as well and with the Powerwall-2 batteries we are able to generate about 350% of our electricity over a year, and are able to operate as a microgrid for ~9 months of the year.
May we inquire as to your payback scenario/timeline? How will upgrading spent packs to improved chemistries lengthen/shorten those upgrade/payback lifecycles?
Hey David, what state do you live in?
@@MikeMikeMiker I live in Edmonds, Washington
I so enjoy the way you explain all of your topics. You really sound like you do some great research. Do you work with any companies in South West Florida. Starting to do reach for a home we are building.
IMO: Li-Ion simply isn't appropriate for a stationary application where extra weight & bulk shouldn't matter much. Tesla is behind the times.
Some Li-Iron(Fe)-Phosphate (LFP) advantages:
- Doesn't explode. (For me, this outweighs all other factors)
- Environmentally friendly. Far less polluting to make & dispose of, and more recyclable.
- Less expensive to manufacture.
- Faster recharge and discharge.
- Longer life.
- On current crop of LFP, deep cycle (discharge to 0%) doesn't decrease battery life; with Li-Ion it's a killer. (that said, limiting discharge to 50% could 3x it's life)
It's also worth noting that battery life (for both types) is directly proportional to deep cycling. A battery that's more for backup than for significant daily power consumption will last far longer. If it takes 30 years to do 4000 full cycles rather than 11, or if you only discharge to 50%, then it could last 30 years with only some efficiency loss.
I would like to see the latest in energy management for the home. Load control. (Heat pump, AC, water heater, pool pump, electric car charger, Lights, dishwasher, Oven, stove, Solar panels, Backup battery) The best system would prioritize those things you are trying to do now like cooking and reprioritize the pool pump until you have excess solar or the grid is cheaper.) Car charging during the daytime could be done when solar is present. or ask if the owner wants to charge immediately.
You could maximize dollars(sell during peak times) or self powering to maintain a lower carbon footprint.
Would love to see what is available in the market today and see who's battery is the best at an integrated home.
Please add to your evaluation of battery systems the power cost to maintain the batteries and microgrid components.
I have a 20 x 340w panel system with an IQ10t and IQ3t battery Enphase system and it uses 1.5 panels of power just to maintain the Battery/Microgrid components. This should be part of planning solar system size to get the expected real output production.
This power is system overhead, and it reduces the overall performance of the entire installed Solar System. Enphase batteries and microgrid inverters use about 500 watthours per day for each 3.3KWH battery. An IQ10T battery will reduce the solar system about 1.5 KWH/day, or 45 KWH/month, or 540 KWH/year. Two IQ10t batteries will use more than 1 MWH/year or 2 Solar panels to just run the backup system.
Please take a look at this on other systems to evaluate comparable performance.
Another great video, Enphase also had some nice integration between their inverters and their battery system (can't remember the details anymore). I had 33 KW of the 1st generation enphase battery system installed (that has been rock solid for the last 10 months) after waiting almost 18 months for a PowerWall. I do not regret that decision at all. In terms of looks, who cares, it is in your garage. The 33 KW system can run 3 air conditioners (and everything else that is connected to that panel) for a 5,200 square foot house for a little over 4 hours on a hot summer day. SDGE peak hours are from 4 - 9 so they almost get me through peak hours. If I had gone with 40 KW, I know that would have been enough. I think California's NEM rules will really drive the adoption of more batteries. Hopefully that will drive the cost down at some point. Personally, I would like nothing better than to have more and more people avoid paying SDGE. The cost for their electricity and natural gas is outrageous. There are people in my neighborhood that have $2,000 electric bills in the summer. Between my 15.5 KW solar system and the Enphase batteries, my bill was under $400. Looking at getting more solar before NEM 3 to reset my grandfathering date. The Enphase batteries are heavy. You will need a sturdy wall to mount them on.
Hi David and thanks for writing in. Perhaps you can upgrade your solar and add that 4th Enphase battery before the rules change.
Thanks to Joe for this update. I am sizing and readying for a SDGE region implementation now. To the OP, I am in Southern OC and am on medical baseline. SGIP funding for the batteries has been ridiculously complex and frankly odd. I totally qualify but nobody from state or SDGE helps me implement. Plus, on fixed income (medical disability), NEM 3.0 looks very threatening.
I have a 60 KWh battery in the driveway that is a wasted resource when the grid goes down. I have solar panels 10 Kw system with next metering. Vehicle to Grid as a service needs to be mandated Nationally along with Micro grids etc.
The single battery solution is what I did with my Tesla Power Wall. All the 240v loads stayed in the original power panel and all the 120v load put in the sub-panel inside the transfer switch. I also have a natural gas generator backup. What I would really like is to replace the natural gas generator with a BEV with vehicle to grid capacity of about 10kw and >50kwh. This would allow me to go off grid if I wanted to.
We did a two PW grid-tied system in 2022 with 10KW in Phoenix, AZ. Had a power outage just shortly after and worked as desired (normal suburbia transformer out with a couple hours to rework). I play with the app to maximize my time not pulling from the grid but recognizing I only have so many battery cycles I don't push it too hard. The math won't ever work out unless things really change but I did this due to a very long outage in 2020 and just observing what I expect is an interesting grid decade coming up with the faster transition to renewables with slower push out of storage.
Takin' what their givin', cause you're working for a livin'. You work with what you got, bro. The summer of 2023 is looking like its going to be another hot one here in the valley of the Sun.
@@jackrobbins963 This year has been amazing on the electricity. Every month has been significantly negative on cost and we may end up negative for the year. I still don’t think they will pay off without a catastrophic regional outage but it’s likely to be much closer than I expected.
I would add that the Enphase battery chemistry (LiFePO4) is also the preferred battery chemistry when weight and size are not critical because it has a longer lifespan as far as battery cycling is concerned. For a home battery system that is cycled daily, this will make a big difference 10 years down the road.
The Enphase battery system would NOT work with the existing Enphase M190 microinverters on our roof. To swap out all the microinverters would have incurred an additional $7500. On top of the Enphase system costing about $8000 more to start. We have been very pleased with our 2 pack PowerWall.
What power tools are using LiPePO4? Power tools need power density which is not really LFP's strong suit.
@@corystansbury thanks for pointing that out. Edited my comment.
Powerwall 3 is about to hit the market. It will use LFP.
Did you include the additional cost of the 5 year warranty into the Enphase price? Since it got an extra point for warranty and an extra point on price, this is important.
its actually a 15 year warranty only. They just changed it.
Nice video!! I would add one more point to Tesla for the virtual grid and financing for certain states. I would love a feature to feed the grid device for what Tesla does when the grid demands it. Secondly I’m having a difficult time for a hybrid inverter that can accept wind power and back feed the extra power to the grid when my batteries are at capacity, instead of dump loading what would you suggest for a 5kw wind turbine? Would you rather have a grid tie and a rectifier with a smart switch or a hybrid inverter
There are additional attributes that put Enphase batteries above Tesla. 1. When paired with the iQ8 micro inverters, if the Enphase battery is fully drained, it will be able to self start as soon as the sun comes out the next day. Tesla would require a certified technician to do a home visit and perform a Black Start. / 2. By Enphase having multiple micro inverters inside their battery, if one of them fail, the battery will still be able to work at a reduced capacity. If the Tesla single inverter fails, the whole system collapses. / 3. With Enphase batteries you can monitor the whole system in one single app. When you have a Tesla battery you have to use Tesla's App to manage the battery and the Enphase App to manage the solar production. / 4. When you have the full Enphase ecosystem, the iQ8 micro inverters are fo fast and smart that they don't need the battery to operate unlike Tesla. / 5. Good luck troubleshooting an issue with Tesla's costumer service. Enphase costumer service is phenomenal. / There are more attributes but I think these are pretty convincing when comparing the two brands. Like I tell my clients, Tesla is a great product but Enphase is way better. PD: They are about to launch the Enphase EV Charger.
Hi Carlos and thanks for the feedback. You are correct about the Enphase "black start" capability. Also, Enphase IQ8 allows precise throttle control of solar PV when running in off-grid mode. Tesla's off-grid solar control is all or nothing.
Enphase now owns Clipper Creek
@@mattbrew11 correct, they are redesigning the charging station with better features that will integrate with their app Enlighten and renaming the unit so that it becomes part of their ecosystem.
You are assuming enphase solar panels, what if you dont have enphase solar panels?
Wouldn't the same be true if you have tesla solar with a PW that it would be within one app where having tesla panels but encharge battery would require two?
Can the encharge battery be used with any inverter or does it require the enphase system and do you get the same benefits having a different inverter e.g solaredge
@@brandonokeeffe1193 enphase doesn’t make solar panels and neither does tesla, at least not traditional ones. Enphase microinverters are undeniably more capable in terms of energy production and lifespan.
Excellent video, very informative.
In CA and purchased a 30 panel system with 2 power wall plus batteries. Been waiting 6 months (4 months after install was supposed to start) and was just told by solar company that I need to go to enphase (at a higher cost) from an issue between PG&E and Tesla. With no eta in sight for the Tesla we’re not sure what to do so here I am reviewing the two options.
I recently bought the 2nd new enphase battery and the pricing went up from the first one I bought
Joe: just a few comments. I have had Enphase solar panels on my roof for over 8 years. I have 3 tesla powerwall the last one installed last year. I have had no problems with this installation at all in the entire time I owned the system. The reason I added the third powerwall is the fact that I own a tesla model X and in order to charge that beast at any time I needed the extra powerwall. As far as your analysis when I was going to add the third powerwall I priced the Enphase battery and the cost was several thousand more that adding a powerwall! By no means comparable to the powerwall. Maybe it was my installer or some other factor but in my case the cost advantage would go to the powerwall. As far as your comment about the tesla not having the capability of using a fossil fuel generator. I have and used a dedicated generic generator that predated the solar and batteries. My electrician wired it into the system when I had solar and the batteries installed. There are no issues when I had to use the generator (now to be honest I only used it once after a hurricane hit and our grid supply was down for 10 days) the only inconvenience was I had to disconnect from the utility grid and use a transfer switch connection to the generator. I think you should also award points to the powerwall for the interface that is provided. You get instantaneous reading of your generation usage and source as well as the health of the battery. My personal system allows me to charge my vehicle at what ever current I want so that I can manipulate where the energy is coming from (grid storage etc) and whether I want a slow lengthy charge or a fast short charge. Advantage being battery life and degradation. I think with these thoughts my inclination is that the powerwall advantages far outweighs the Enphase. Again your comparison may need a few minor tweaks. And the X factor is very subjective and is where you give the Enphase the win. Thanks for the great videos as I have watched almost all but this is the first I felt needed my comments.
great piece. Isn't the current Powerwall using lithium iron phosphate cells as well?
Solar Surge has been a recent reference to my home solar system research. One thing to note in your x-factor when given Enphase bonus points was the capability of hooking up a gas generator to provide power to the was battery. Tesla also has this feature and wasn't noted or just might not be aware of this Testa option... Bonus points. Also, in the Power category if Tesla has a 7.6kW (9kW) vs Enphase 3.8kW (5.7kW) ... its obvious Tesla is about double or alt lest 90% better than Enphase. Enphase should have only gotten 3 points for instead of 4 in both Power and Capacity.
Just apples and oranges...
You left out Enphase’s Battery Chemistry is much safer and last much longer… 👍 So yes it’s like comparing burnt apples that spoil 4 times faster And Oranges.
Enphase has 8 microinverters in the battery and more reliable.
Any idea who makes the bells for Enphase?
The Enphase IQT warranty extension is not available in Florida.
Great video, nice comparison. I am surprised you did not mention the ability of a backup to be part of a "Virtual Power Plant" in the X-Factor calculation portion. I know Powerwall can do it, does Enphase IQ also have that type of functionality?
Not that I'm aware of. I'm sure Enphase engineering are looking at this also.
In Connecticut, the Enphase has an additional advantage over Tesla: about $7,000 to $9,000 in rebates and performance based incentives through the Energy Storage Solutions (ESS) program administered by the CT Green Bank. The Enphase IQ10 (or IQ10T) would get a $2,000 to $4,000 instant rebate (depending upon your income level), and approximately $5,000 in performance based incentives over a 10 year period regardless of income level. These are in addition to the 30% Federal tax credit.
Tesla is not participating in the Green Bank program in CT, so their system misses out on all these incentives.
I think Generac batteries are also eligible for the CT Green Bank incentives.
I have 2 different coworkers. That chose Tesla powerwall over Enphase battery. They did get Enphase panel so with micro inverters. Not the battery tho.
Thanks for the 2023 update! Any plans to review the new Enphase 5P battery anytime soon?
Yes, we already have that video recorded and we will be releasing it soon.
Great video! Regarding wait times for Powerwall+, I am told that there is a 12 month waiting period. Are others finding this as well? Also, I heard that Teala is moving to LFP for all stationary storage products. Has anyone else heard this too?
We have 50+ Powerwall's in stock in FL at present, so no delays there. I've heard that LFP is coming for the home batteries, but have no solid confirmation on that yet.
Hey Joe. Great info as always. Really enjoy your talks. Question: In very round numbers, how would the cost of a one battery Tesla set up compare to a two battery Enphase set up?
Aug 2022 2 Enphase Encharge 10T’s with all the needed controls and switches was $20K installed. Paid an additional $32K for 10.6 kW Solar with IQ8A’s to go with it. Able to power whole house 1850 sqft and central air with soft start just using common sense approach. Did it for 4 months straight because the Net meter needed for me to get credits from my utility was on back order.
Found that I just ran my standard water heater after the batteries got topped off usually around 11am on most days… same thing for clothes dryer.
@@maddeusdoggeus1 We installed two Tesla PowerWall 2 batteries for $22K. Which gives us plenty of surge power and 27kWh of storage.
Is it possible to test the solaredge lv batterie ?
Can you install an RV/Generator connection to the battery system directly?
I wish you would have included cost per Kw and Kwh.
Great video. I've had my enphase solar panels since July 2022. The last few months I've been thinking of adding a powerwall and have been comparing enphase with other brands. But two questions.
1. You mentioned the warranty for enphase. Is that enphase warranty now unlimited cycles for 10 years?
2. I have a 100amp fuse box in my house. Would my fuse box need to be upgrraded?
The Enphase warranty is 10 years/4k cycles or 15 years/6k cycles for the extended option. The fuse box upgrade would be determined by how large your solar PV system is. The batteries would not require a panel upgrade.
Will you do a comparison between Lion Energy Sanctuary vs. the other top contending Battey offerings?
This should be a tie really or Tesla by a point. one to one Power and capacity comparison should be more than just one point difference. 100% less power 30% less capacity that's huge and no way it can be that close.
Can you please do an update on Enphase vs powerwall 3?
Terrific video
Question for you: I have a Span Panlel and solar array. The plan was to install 3 Tesla Powerwalls, which can integrate with the SPAN. I have an opportunity to switch to Enphase batteries (I have enphase microinverters) but they currently don't integrate with the SPAN. Is SPAN planning to make their panel integrate with the Enphase batteries?
I think there’s talk of it but I wouldn’t hold your breath on it, either. Enphase is notorious for wanting in-house solutions rather than 3rd party arrangements.
Span is promising Enphase Battery compatibility sometime this year. Not sure exactly when. Even if Enphase doesn't directly participate, Span should be able to implement this using frequency shifting to control the solar input from the micro-inverters.
I went with SPAN and Enphase... even if they never directly integrate, I can use a home-automation tool (Home Assistant etc) to handle load shifting if needed.
We are getting out grid tied install this spring with iQ8M microinverters. I can’t convince my partner to go for a battery yet due to cost. Would it make sense to get the daylight backup switch until a battery?
that's a tough one- you'll have to weigh cost vs. benefit. I also have the IQ8+ microinverters and the added COST to have daylight backup is not very cheap. And since it's just 'daylight backup' it's very limited power so it's not the same as going with a battery backup. When the power goes out, do you REALLY need a few lights on for awhile? Hard to not keep your fridges running, use the washer/dryer, etc. which would need more power than that 'daylight backup' path. YMMV
Span vs Levitton smart panel? My local electricians in Florida recommend against Span. What’s the main difference?
Ryan the two main differences is that Span can manage critical loads and has the ability to turn circuits on and off remotely provided the circuit breaker hasn’t been tripped. You must physically trip the span breaker to make the circuit safe to work on, whereas Leviton can only turn off the breaker remotely as if it has been tripped it’s safe to work on the circuit but you can’t turn the breaker on remotely
As installer of both ….every single customer We have installed in the last few years having an enphase system I have had to send a tech back for a battery or switch RMA. I have never once had to send someone back to a Tesla… we put tesla in and forget them we have to build cost in to service enphase because we know it will fail
Doing panels this year and batteries next year. Hopefully, by then the new PW 3 will be on the market.
I got installed 2 tesla powerwalls, 25 tesla new panels and they have emphase micros. Is this setup is right?
I just found your channel. Hopefully as I peruse your videos I get the answers I need. I just watched a couple of videos regarding the new Mango Power products. I look forward to comparisons to it.
i have solar since 2012 from solar city(now tesla) with 7.11 kWh system. they're leasing my roof so i just pay them their monthly bill + the pse&g distribution charges of typically $4.95 but much more if i use more the grid if my solar does not produce on some days. will it be advantageous for me to purchase 2 powerwall plus or do u think it will complicate matters since tesla owns the solar system ?
neat looking.... It is going to go into the cellar
Enphase is actually 15 years warranty out the box and no longer comes with a 10 year +5 year option. Glad to see Enphase is the winner being a more safer option.
I like your explanations, they hit me where I live - you seem to cover the info at several levels, always a good way to teach. +1 for that.
I understand that AC + DC coupling means the shape of the electricity that needs to enter the batteries/batt. systems. Since solar panels put out DC, wouldn’t it make sense to wire that directly to a point-of-use panel where it is either inverted to AC for grid or local consumption, or sent as DC to enter a BMS for charging/storage?
Basically, isn’t there additional standing loss each time there’s a form conversion (AC→DC, or DC→AC), and isn’t that loss more important (expensive) than a single event of wiring convenience? DC connectors, shielding, cabling could be a little more expensive (to start) than similarly required AC parts, but aren’t savings found in less electronics and controllers in addition to the standing energy losses of inversions?
In such a new field it seems like the cart will follow the horse: if people install for the most efficiency will manufacturers adapt the products to suit the demand… ?
Yes, the DC-AC-DC cycle is less efficient that a direct DC-to-DC solar battery charging. The installers have to balance the electric conversion efficiency loss against the increase labor cost of retrofitting a DC-coupled system. In almost all cases, AC-coupling has cleaner wiring (reduced labor costs).
@@SolarSurge DC → DC seems like such a good topic, I bet you’ve covered it by now?
@@SolarSurge. So what ARE the proportional costs (at installation)/benefits (savings over time) between installation/efficiencies of DC-AC-DC vs DC-DC? If I missed it, please reply with a time stamp. Thx
this video is not updated PW+ Release around 1 year ago, you can backup AC unit under some conditions and 2 poles loads like oven and dryer, ev charger below 50A ratting, additional de capacity of the enphase is 35% less capacity, the logic tell me that they need to be 36% less. when it's not. great video in general
Will you be able to compare these two batteries along with Sunpower Battery?
Good idea!
What would you rate neovolta compared to Tesla.Which one is better?
Watch guy at 1.5x speed is perfect.
the new jersey schedule a call does not work. the page is just displaying the following: SCHEDULE YOUR SOLAR CONSULTATION
Select a time that works best for you below to setup your consultation. everything below is blanked out.
If I install an Enphase battery can that support the PGE program to power the grid in the summer and be paid for it? I know Tesla's virtual power plant supports that.
Yes Enphase supports this also.
What’s the price per kilowatt hour, not just the price per unit? With the Tesla you can sell your energy back to the grid in some places. That could be worth something. I feel like there might’ve been just a slight bias here but I do think the enphase is a good option
Can't you also do a fuel natural gas generator with Tesla power wall 2?
To my knowledge, Tesla does not support any kind of generator hookup.
The powerwall per Teslas website can be added to a system with Backup Generators via an ATS?
Yes, but the Powerwall cannot be directly recharged from the generator power source.
@@SolarSurge think with Megapacks being LFP it’s only time before they make all Powerwalls LFP :)
Will the EnPhase system give more 'continuous' load if there are more batteries?
Yes. Each battery adds 3.84kW continuous load rating
For a larger whole home backup system (40kWh and up) would the most cost effective solution be an electric car?
Yes. Once that technology is proven. Look for more V2H announcements this year.
If you mean Emergency Back up and you Know you’ll be at home yes… but if it’s for every day back up then for most people that wouldn’t work… gone during the day which is when the solar would be charging the battery.
Then home at night and needing a charge when the solar is not producing anything.
This comparison needs to be updated for the new Enphase 5P battery. Also, we buy capacity based on total capacity, not battery count. 3 of the new 5P batteries have more capacity (15.3 kWatt-hours total) than one, 13.5 kWatt-hour, Tesla battery. And, the installation cost for the 5P will likely be lower, both the peak and steady state power ratings would be much higher and the Enphase battery fire safety is significantly better. Further, my house completely indifferent about the Enphase battery weight for 3, 5Ps and 3 batteries fail far more gracefully than 1. Ask any 2 or 3 engine pilot about his or her preferences on that point.
Tesla has some catching up to do.
Is not the new PW+ not using LFP since they been having issues making enough batteries at Giga Neveda for Giga New York for PWs cause they have to change chemistries between batches for Model Y,3,Semi and PWs.
Was really hoping you'd actually dive into the price, would be nice to know the dollar per kWh cost of each.
That's going to depend a lot on your location and who we choose as the installer. For example, prices in NorCal are about $4k higher than Florida right now.
@@SolarSurge lucky for me I'm a licensed journeyman electrician. Cost per kWh would still be great to see regardless of installation costs.
@@OneNationUnderGod.Prices of batteries are quite fluctuating. I am tracking Tesla Powerwall prices and they seem to have peaked in early 2023 (around the time this video was made) and have come down about 30%(!) since (in July 2023). So you should always inquire current prices if you have an upcoming project and also prices depend on how many units you buy in one order.
You should compare $/kwh for the cost
Please Sir how to connect 10 solar panels and 8 batteries
Get more points to pay for extended warrant? That should be minus 1. Paying more for extended warranties have proven to be a scam.
Tesla powerwall prices are listed on their website and include installation. I'm unable to compare what 3 Enphase IQ batteries would cost, installed? It's all a range. Also, compare10 year warranty to 10 year warranty. It's a nice option to be able to choose 15 years, but lets try to compare apples with apples. 2 powerwallsvs 3 Enphase. 27 Kwh vs 30 kwh. Close at least.
3x Enphase batteries are about $32-38k installed depending on the installer.
I hope Enphase is improving their system. A year ago you gave a “slight edge” to the Tesla power wall when in fact Enphase was not even close. My guy would not install it until the bugs were worked out.
I don't believe LiFePo4 batteries are "new chemistry". They have been available for a long time just as NMC.
The continuous power and peak power from the powerwall is sort of a big deal.
Can I use a PowerWall on an Enphase solar system?
I think so. Powerwall is ac coupled so is compatible with almost all inverters
You also forgot to mentioned that the Emphase system use micro inverters witch is a huge advantage, white Tesla use a central inverter.
Is Enphase back up battery able to connect to a Tesla 4 kw system and a second system 5 Kw system Q-cell 400 panels and IQ8plus inverter?
Hey Bryan. No, Enphase would not be a good choice for this. Try Franklin WH battery to connect with your existing panels.
To be most specific with detail for my question house has 4.5 Kw Tesla system. Thinking about adding (second system) a 5.6 kw system with the Q-cell 400 panels and Iq8 inverter made by enphase.
If I add the Enphase battery with second system it will only be compatible with new system? If so would Tesla power wall be a battery option so I can connect to both systems to get most out of it?
@@MrApostolicman Yes, Tesla Powerwall could connect to both systems as well. Please let us know if you need a quote.
@@SolarSurge to combat tou plan 2.0 not 3.0 if adding Tesla battery for both system approx 9 kw will that store my power on site every day rather than sending power to utility? Like to speak to about? Sure like a quote
@@SolarSurge. Hmm, still worth seeking a quote so close to 4/10? From reading everything down to here (& otherwise), it seems like if I upgrade my panel to accept all likely future I/O, by 4/10, I could qualify to be grandfathered into NEM 2.0 that I’d bother (& pay) to do, just on principle. Would that necessitate getting solar panels? Seems like PW aren’t needed just for the NEM 2, but I’m fine adding them now, if needed. I plan on initially just populating my directly south facing angled roof, then eventually my less optimal ones. Also, start with one Tesla PW & upgrade as their tech & my needs evolve. (Reasonable plan, but out of time?😅)
20:31 I’m not producing enough energy for my home… I have 34 panels on my roof and I have a backup battery. I’m still paying $280 per month for electricity with my setup!! I need help….
Hi Terry. Sorry to hear that. We can help. Please book a call: www.solarsurge.net
Enph now has the 5p which is better. Need a new vid
If you were considering having solar installed, please think carefully before signing with Soleria Solar Or or Enphase. My system has been installed since September 9 months later and it still does not work. They've been out here and worked on it several times and it still doesn't work. Now I get some of the highest electric bills I've ever had and and a loan that I'm making payments... They don't ask for phone calls or return messages left.. I don't know if they're messing with me or just Incompetent......
have you seen the Enphase IQ battery 5P? the thing seems to be nutz
Whats the real time this kind of batteries can run a small house without grid? I mean just with sunlight on panels every day
It's not that simple. Every house is different. You would have to look at your actual energy consumption during evening hours to size the battery properly.
Did enphase rebrand their batteries or is it a new battery?
Rebrand. Encharge 10 is now Enphase IQ Battery 10.
forgot software and VPP comparison
You need to take away 50 points for terrible tech support and RMA processing for SolarEdge. We don't sell SolarEdge anymore because of reliability of inverters and Back up interface. If one of these goes out you will wait over a month to receive a new one. The other negative about the Solar edge battery is that it will discharge past your SOC setpoints. Enphase has some issues but you will be well supported in the event of a device failure. I am in the California market.
One more thing is Enphase has the ability to charge batteries from a generator
Video starts at 2:52
The enphase system doesn't allow for system to discharge at night and help with electricity bill. So the tesla over all wins here with that option.
Hi Joe, I love your videos, but I don't like the idea of Span or any solar equipment manufacturer being a sponsor. You can't give honest advice if you are being paid to say that something is good.
Hi Andy and thanks for the feedback. I considered this and determined that SPAN aligns well with our brand. For the record, Solar Surge does not sell SPAN products. We simply think its aligns well with our goals to promote solar + storage for energy independence.
It really should of been
Tesla 5+5+4+4+2=20
Enphase 3+4+5+5+3=20
Yes the generator hookup is a nice feature especially for after storm cloudy situations but honestly your new video sets these units equally now and I've been heavily invested in Tesla for almost 4 years now lol. Stacking 2 Enphase batteries is just barely better than 1 Tesla powerwall. Price wise just slightly more. Just like the powerwall is slightly more than 1 Enphase battery. So dead equal honestly. I would consider 2 Enphase batteries after watching this video but again dead equal. I give the powerwall 1 extra point mainly for the Ecosystem and its potential for neater updates with generator "backup backup" and bi directional car to powerwall charging. Once that happens points go up. Great video I enjoyed your first video on these two beautiful units with IMO powerwall rocked it but this video they are dead even. Thank you!
Sorry but with half the power output how can you give it a 4 out of 5? Yes, the Tesla is more expensive but it has more capacity. I would give it 3 out of 5 in both categories.
So these are just batteries? they don't have inverters build in?
Tesla Powerwall+ has an inverter on top, Enphase makes micro inverters that sit under each solar panel.
Hi handsome. Great topic and excellent reviews. My suggestion is, could you upgrade your mic to a rode ,I would to hear a cleaner voice,your voice is beautiful but the mic your using makes your natural voice sound distorted. Thanks.
I just checked with my local solar expert. You CANNOT charge a solar house battery using a generator. Period. No can do.
Expert? enphase.com/installers/storage/generator
You said they are the same cost, but you give 1 less point to Tesla? lol same with the warranty