I actually enjoy using IntelliJ products. They maybe aren't 1ms snappy, but snappy enough. They work faster than I type, so I don't care. Built in DB tools and their integration with code (like completion for SQL inside of your code) is awesome. Yeah, it could use a bit less memory, but I can also just close 2 chrome tabs and give Rider 1GB more, or just spend 100$ and get 32GB more memory. On the topic of "it's a year or two of work" - they guys doing Zed will disagree! They are targeting mostly Mac, and they still have bugs with rendering - whether it's slow, or just straight up misses pixels (Theo had a video about that). They wrote a whole UI abstraction just to "solve" this, and it didn't work out that well. I agree - I don't know why it's so complicated. Something is definetely wrong with the whole stack
They're extremely wasteful which has many other implications. Beside being 100x-10000x slower than what the hardware can support for no good reason, the usability is also much worse because the codebase required for the bloated tools are that much larger and complicated to understand for the developers. Good software can have the same feature-set with much greater performance, which in turn also allow many additional features that aren't even possible in slow and bloated software. Another aspect is that much software is many layers of premature- or legacy generalizations that technically support features you want, but a specialized version can be radically simpler and more powerful.
I'm also sad about the state of many tools, and I'm thinking a lot about writing my own code editor in D, with LSP support. I often call this "the bad gate issue", as when I got my current house, it's gate's lock was really bad, and you had to push the handle and the key in all manner of ways to get it closed and opened, but the previous owners got so they didn't feel any difficulty. Then I started to see bad gates that people got so used all over society, and not just software. Is there some GUI debugger or even a GUI frontend for gdb? I'm doing a lot of developing on Linux too.
There is one GUI debugger that I used to use back in my early days of assembly programming, DDD by GNU. It uses GDB in the backend, DDD just interprets the command and pass it to the GDB, and GDB returns the result. Note however, the project still uses the old GTK1, so if you wish to use it, prepare for old, Win98 style GUI.
A lot of people have to complain before everyone agrees there's enough of a problem to fix anything. It's just like dealing with customer service. Nobody helps you when you're too nice. I don't ever want to be mean or rude, but sometimes you can't get help unless you make yourself annoying.
@@fun_gussy Don't know if you have noticed, but Casey and JB always complain about everything, but their names doesn't appear in open source, are not active in open software development, and even if we talk about JAI, because the tool is so closed and slow to develop, Odin and Go are the main tools to go now when you want to write software. Why even use JAI when Odin is such a good language, and Go is simple enough to do almost everything you don't need bare metal for??... I don't know man... Love Casey and I will always be grateful for hand made hero, but man... you just see clips of them complaining.
@@patrolin Hopefully that means that you are up to do a contribution, or to build another alternative or better yet, buy the tool you want, and continue your own way.
It's important context that Casey is talking about Visual Studio, not VS Code. And this clip is several years old. You should use whichever editor makes you most productive. I'd suggest try a couple, but if it's VS Code at the end then use VS Code. If you like to live in the terminal then Helix is a really fast batteries included editor. If you prefer GUIs, I've heard good things about Lapce. People that use Jetbrains stuff seem to like them, I've never tried. I use Neovim, but that needs a lot of plugins and configuration to make it really productive, which is a feature, not a bug, but it's not for everybody.
I'm currently using 10x, which is specialized in C/C++ (primarily Unreal Engine, I hear). And I couple it with the RemedyBG debugger. It's still not perfect for me, but it's radically more performant than VS, and does the vast majority of what I need. I've yet to make a serious attempt at adopting a Vim-like editor, frankly because it's hard to gauge if it's worth it for me. I've thought about making my own specialized editor at some point.
Visual Studio is bloated so I don't see any reason why to struggle with that. I use Visual Studio Code instead and I use it on Debian. I can make simple clicks to extensions to customize it so it is is less bloated. Also I still write professionally software using 13 year old machine because unnecessary changing computer is hazzle, I will change it when we got DDR6 memory and perhaps more sane GPUs. GPUs went crazy when nVidia started to put those raytrace features.
Replace a bloated behemoth with another bloated behemoth and call that progress. YMMV, but in my experience, VSCode is just not worth the time to set it up so it actually works decently. In an ideal world, my IDE of choice would very much look like Turbo Pascal - runs in the console, shows me only what I actually need and does not get in the way of what I want to do. Sadly, we don't live in such an ideal world, and even more sadly I do not have spare bandwidth to just go and write this type of thing.
@@lucemiserlohn Setting up VSCode take about one minute. It works fine. Most of the work doesn't happen in IDE anyways, it is in project build system, test infrastructure, and build pipelines.
@@gruntaxeman3740 No, it doesn't. You have to install a gazillion plugins, configure paths afterwards, and then do it again because it forgets about it somewhere down the line, an incoming update breaks stuff... The other build tools are a whole different can of worms. And it's probably not just one of them - if I'm doing something in C++ and use more than one library, chances are that I need to set up three seperate build chains with seperate tooling just to be able to build. And this process of setting up a plethora of build chains has to be repeated for every new project of course. In an ideal world, I could use _my_ build system of choice and use it to build that other stuff, too. But most projects are quite opinionated on their tools. And then we have that other stuff that requires docker for building everything, or kubernetes, or some other crazy setup in advance. Build tools in general are a very sad affair. Honestly, I want the 90s back, maybe stuff was more limited in those days, but at least the effort to build software was not yet such a monstrous undertaking in its own right.
@@FlanGrande I don't see what is the problem if it works fast on my 13 year old potato PC what I can still use to write code for living. I just add couple of extensions based on project because projects written on different languages requires different extensions. The value of VS Code is good UI, portability, Git integration, possibility to add extensions easily based on requirements. I've started to use it on same day it was released to public and I don't think I change it soon.
All available code editors are garbage. Zed is fast but has limited features. Neovim has very limited remapping. Emacs is emacs. VS code is ok but has horrible config.
![[15/52] The Three Languages an Engineer Needs To Know (or maybe it's more)](/img/n.gif)
I actually enjoy using IntelliJ products. They maybe aren't 1ms snappy, but snappy enough. They work faster than I type, so I don't care. Built in DB tools and their integration with code (like completion for SQL inside of your code) is awesome. Yeah, it could use a bit less memory, but I can also just close 2 chrome tabs and give Rider 1GB more, or just spend 100$ and get 32GB more memory.
On the topic of "it's a year or two of work" - they guys doing Zed will disagree! They are targeting mostly Mac, and they still have bugs with rendering - whether it's slow, or just straight up misses pixels (Theo had a video about that). They wrote a whole UI abstraction just to "solve" this, and it didn't work out that well.
I agree - I don't know why it's so complicated. Something is definetely wrong with the whole stack
Cygnus ED for the win
I'm still confused what makes current tools bad, guess I'm the guys with the McChicken....
They're extremely wasteful which has many other implications. Beside being 100x-10000x slower than what the hardware can support for no good reason, the usability is also much worse because the codebase required for the bloated tools are that much larger and complicated to understand for the developers. Good software can have the same feature-set with much greater performance, which in turn also allow many additional features that aren't even possible in slow and bloated software. Another aspect is that much software is many layers of premature- or legacy generalizations that technically support features you want, but a specialized version can be radically simpler and more powerful.
I'm also sad about the state of many tools, and I'm thinking a lot about writing my own code editor in D, with LSP support. I often call this "the bad gate issue", as when I got my current house, it's gate's lock was really bad, and you had to push the handle and the key in all manner of ways to get it closed and opened, but the previous owners got so they didn't feel any difficulty. Then I started to see bad gates that people got so used all over society, and not just software.
Is there some GUI debugger or even a GUI frontend for gdb? I'm doing a lot of developing on Linux too.
There is one GUI debugger that I used to use back in my early days of assembly programming, DDD by GNU. It uses GDB in the backend, DDD just interprets the command and pass it to the GDB, and GDB returns the result. Note however, the project still uses the old GTK1, so if you wish to use it, prepare for old, Win98 style GUI.
@@snowman4933
It should be super easy to refactor to current GTK+.
I'm all for making something better. It's so tiring hearing people whine but never doing anything about it. More power to you. 👍
A lot of people have to complain before everyone agrees there's enough of a problem to fix anything. It's just like dealing with customer service. Nobody helps you when you're too nice. I don't ever want to be mean or rude, but sometimes you can't get help unless you make yourself annoying.
@@fun_gussy Don't know if you have noticed, but Casey and JB always complain about everything, but their names doesn't appear in open source, are not active in open software development, and even if we talk about JAI, because the tool is so closed and slow to develop, Odin and Go are the main tools to go now when you want to write software. Why even use JAI when Odin is such a good language, and Go is simple enough to do almost everything you don't need bare metal for??... I don't know man... Love Casey and I will always be grateful for hand made hero, but man... you just see clips of them complaining.
@@jacobitosuperstar most open source software is still trash though, e.g. inkscape can't even align text to the right
(but odin is pretty good)
@@patrolin Hopefully that means that you are up to do a contribution, or to build another alternative or better yet, buy the tool you want, and continue your own way.
@@jacobitosuperstar fuck reading other peoples code, i will probably end up making my own editor eventually...
About text editors - which one should I use instead of VS code, that provides the same functionality without multiple plugins?
It's important context that Casey is talking about Visual Studio, not VS Code. And this clip is several years old.
You should use whichever editor makes you most productive. I'd suggest try a couple, but if it's VS Code at the end then use VS Code.
If you like to live in the terminal then Helix is a really fast batteries included editor. If you prefer GUIs, I've heard good things about Lapce. People that use Jetbrains stuff seem to like them, I've never tried.
I use Neovim, but that needs a lot of plugins and configuration to make it really productive, which is a feature, not a bug, but it's not for everybody.
@@danieltm2 I'll try Helix, thanks for the info
I'm currently using 10x, which is specialized in C/C++ (primarily Unreal Engine, I hear). And I couple it with the RemedyBG debugger. It's still not perfect for me, but it's radically more performant than VS, and does the vast majority of what I need. I've yet to make a serious attempt at adopting a Vim-like editor, frankly because it's hard to gauge if it's worth it for me. I've thought about making my own specialized editor at some point.
Visual Studio is bloated so I don't see any reason why to struggle with that.
I use Visual Studio Code instead and I use it on Debian. I can make simple clicks to extensions to customize it so it is is less bloated.
Also I still write professionally software using 13 year old machine because unnecessary changing computer is hazzle, I will change it when we got DDR6 memory and perhaps more sane GPUs. GPUs went crazy when nVidia started to put those raytrace features.
Replace a bloated behemoth with another bloated behemoth and call that progress.
YMMV, but in my experience, VSCode is just not worth the time to set it up so it actually works decently. In an ideal world, my IDE of choice would very much look like Turbo Pascal - runs in the console, shows me only what I actually need and does not get in the way of what I want to do. Sadly, we don't live in such an ideal world, and even more sadly I do not have spare bandwidth to just go and write this type of thing.
@@lucemiserlohn
Setting up VSCode take about one minute. It works fine.
Most of the work doesn't happen in IDE anyways, it is in project build system, test infrastructure, and build pipelines.
@@gruntaxeman3740 No, it doesn't. You have to install a gazillion plugins, configure paths afterwards, and then do it again because it forgets about it somewhere down the line, an incoming update breaks stuff...
The other build tools are a whole different can of worms. And it's probably not just one of them - if I'm doing something in C++ and use more than one library, chances are that I need to set up three seperate build chains with seperate tooling just to be able to build. And this process of setting up a plethora of build chains has to be repeated for every new project of course. In an ideal world, I could use _my_ build system of choice and use it to build that other stuff, too. But most projects are quite opinionated on their tools.
And then we have that other stuff that requires docker for building everything, or kubernetes, or some other crazy setup in advance.
Build tools in general are a very sad affair.
Honestly, I want the 90s back, maybe stuff was more limited in those days, but at least the effort to build software was not yet such a monstrous undertaking in its own right.
The fact that you think VS Code works fine OOTB shows how bad software has gotten
@@FlanGrande
I don't see what is the problem if it works fast on my 13 year old potato PC what I can still use to write code for living. I just add couple of extensions based on project because projects written on different languages requires different extensions.
The value of VS Code is good UI, portability, Git integration, possibility to add extensions easily based on requirements. I've started to use it on same day it was released to public and I don't think I change it soon.
All available code editors are garbage. Zed is fast but has limited features. Neovim has very limited remapping. Emacs is emacs. VS code is ok but has horrible config.