How to Top Rope Solo the way that I Top Rope Solo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- A guide on how to Top Rope Solo, the way that I do.
After much testing and trialing, this is my method for top rope soloing.
I use the Petzl MicroTraxion and Climbing Technologies Roll n Lock. Various carabiners, and various slings. It seems to work well.
This is the best tutorial for top rope solo that Ive seen. Great job man.
Great video. Completely agree with climbing well within your limits when top rope soloing. It's not about pushing the grades it is about experiencing the freedom of self-sufficiency.
I 100% use tr solo to push grades. I shunt with a rollnlock as back up. Why not push yourself?
Do whatever you want but solo tr is a perfect medium to push yourself!
Solid vid. Def one of the better top rope solo vids out there
Awesome video, thanks so much for putting this together!
I could look at that lake shot all day. LOL. Nice, thanks for posting.
I just went back to rope after 21 years... didn't know of this technique, thank-you!!!!
I love the title of your video. So unassuming
Very helpful advice thanks for making this!
My pleasure!
Great video! Very informative
Hey, great video. Keep up the great content! Just wanted to add something. For your secondary device, Petzl recommends using an energy absorber like the Nitro Absorber instead of a sling if using a toothed secondary. If the first device fails you could potentially take a factor 2 fall (2x connector length) on the secondary device and the cams teeth can damage the sheath. Petzl did some tests on this and 185cm of sheath were torn in the test. They recommend using a cam-loaded secondary (rescuscender) if not using the energy absorber. Keep up the great climbing and content!
He's toproping mate. A factor 2 fall can only be created when lead climbing past (above) your last anchor. I get that if the primary failed he'd be above or parralell with his secondary but still not enough of a fall to create a factor 2. That said, the closer to the anchor the more your comment would come into play. and on another note, take a file and soften out the teeth, it still grabs but not so aggressively.
Yes thats true going up, but using it as like a towed backup device coming down is a bit dodgy. Not really dodgy because hes got good anchors and coming down on a solid descender, but dodgy because in the event he needed the traction as a backup he wouldve already accelerated pretty fast before releasing(if he even does let go) the teath. That said i think everything he did was safe and I wouldve just not mentioned the fact the toothed device is acting as a backup when he releases it.@@smokingbluegrass
Great video. Your system seems both practical with good built in redindancy. Looking forward to use it due to shortage of partners and erratic personal schedules. Just secretly hoping to be able to climb hard as well or at least train moves on hard projects for later sending properly...
I agree, for top rope solo this looks like the best technique yet...simple and safe
This looks thought out and seems to be safe enough to my eyes. I would rule out the extension potential at the bolts but that’s just me and it’s been said already.
Looks lovely out there.. nice..
Nice video! Would love to see some footage of a full climb to stitch all the advice together
Nice video, I’ve always used a static line but if you don’t have one, dynamic works but I can’t imagine it’s better. Cheers
Great video
Great video mate thanks
Well done. Found consistent TRS/LS sessions are key to getting past the headiness of rope solo.
Definitely start below grade.
your fear of the two devices blocking each other is justified. nice workaround!
Very nice! Good to see you using two ropes. It might look cluttered but adds a lot of safety and makes transitions to/from abseiling a whole lot smoother! The only time I would use only one rope would be if the route is too long to double up my rope.
It's only one rope
@@zachreese5998 Its one rope, doubled. Which in terms of technique and safety is equivalent to using two ropes.
It’s 2 strands but one knot therefore not 2 independent ropes. Not a criticism of the system, just a point to note re your comment. If everything between the belay loop up to and including the bolts is doubled, that’s independence. Not a requirement for a personal setup obviously.
Love top rope solo. Just got in to it. Sometimes I will use a static line if the route is less than 100 feet but if not, I whip out the Long Running Bastard - an 80 meter dynamic. I can double that one and go on two strands. Good times but sucks for feeding devices. I use a ropeman 1 and a shunt but lately I have just been using the ropeman.
Rappelling, being the fun part - I like to go fast. No grigris or ATC. Straight to the Big 8!
Keep climbing!
I've trs'd on a gri gri an atc in guide mode as the backup. Worked okay but it was janky having to feed the atc and grigri. So I just picked up a rope man. It's made life so much easier.
@@mikelarin8037 Nice. They are sketchy to fall on, though!
@@ananda_miaoyin haha yeah its staying at the backup.
thanks for the video
i use almost the same set up with the way you attach to your harness and everything- the only additional things i do to add redundancy is tie a double figue 8 to make redundant loops and i used the second biner at that master point - good video tho keeps it safe and simple
Great tutorial some great points nice set up it’s seems safe you could try improving your anchor setup abit by lower the overhand on the sling closer to the master point so if the top bolt was to fail then the fall would be shorter also you could try adding another double figure 8 and clipping it into the carabiner to make the lines independent that’s just my opinion but if your system works for you then no reason to change it
Or just avoid the sliding-X altogether. It adds very little value here; compared to, say, a V anchor. There is really no need for perfect equalization on two solid bolts.
@@johnliungman1333 Quad anchor has the self equalization benefit of the sliding X. while also having a shelf and being more redundant. Sliding X scares me because the master point goes if any single strand breaks or is cut. Quad anchor makes it obsolete as far as I can tell.
Great tips to rope solo
Appreciate it!
Really good info. Was wondering do you tie stopped knots as you go or just the end knots at the very ends of your rope?
Nobiallo is a perfect spot for TRS 👍🏻
Have fun and stay safe!
ha! You found me!
Very clear and well thought-out, thanks for the video. Only comment is that I would suggest you equalise your anchors at the top with a non extending setup (just a fig-8 on a bite for example). Here you show a sliding x, you have 'limiter' knots but they are too far away imo. If the top bolt fails (unlikely, yes, especially when only top roping but..) with that much separation between the bolts there's' a high chance that sling will fail from the shock load of all that extension.
You know what a fixed point or "banshee belay" set up is?
Great video. Newbie here - if they are spaced up and down, connected in this way, will it be sharing the load or multiplying load onto bottom one? That part about stressing out when no one to help if anything went wrong really resonated with my own experience!
Chest harness with a petzl croll or basic asceder on one line anchored to seat harness via leg and waste loops, back up on the other line is a tibloc on a energy absorber (petzl asap would be ideal but $$) attatched via belay loop. The benefit to my system is that its safe, redundant, uses a secondary rope/back up. And there is no falling or shock loading the system, because your primary device is an ascender on a chest harness, there is no slack between the rope and ascender like there often is with any device dangling below you while your solo climbing. I prefer the tibloc to a microtraxion as its more fool proof and the teeth/cam cant be disengaged like on the traxion...
Also coil your rope and hang it about 2ft off the ground to tension the rope so the devices slide easier...
I like your set up but I’d have you consider switching the micro and roll. You can file off the lock on the trax but I don’t think you can by pass the lock on the other device you may find that you will be climbing and then you will fall onto the trax because the other went into lock open mode it would be better to take your fall onto the untoothed device as a back up. 🤙🏻
Also having a look at your anchor if you tie an over and on the right side of the biner you will get the load equalized but also in the case of the left bolt some how popping out you will only fall to that left over hand decreasing your shock load.
Thanks for the feedback geezer. Love your channel btw. Keep it up!
@@MrLeobedford anytime! Thanks, keep safe out there. 🤙🏻
Using a static rope is so that there is significantly more limited rubbing of rope on any rock surfaces that it might go over. Dynamic rope stretch means that rope will move in a vertical direction at anytime there is variation in the weight applied on the rope. This potentially happens even in the normal motion of top rope soloing without taking a fall but is significant with any fall. Vertical wearing of rope on rock is just as dangerous as horizontal wearing (which is the direction everone means when discussing rope rubbing against a rock edge) with respect to rope damage. Using a static rope essentially eliminates that risk.
Great vid! What is the big blue biner you use for the main device?
a tip I heard recently to avoid falling of the end of your rope, put the ends up with two figure eights so you have a loop hanging down. impossible to fall of that.
Great Video. I've run into the issue of lack of partners and have been contemplating Rope Solo for a bit. Loved this.
Question though: Are you adding any weight/ a sand bag at either ends of the ropes at the bottom?
No I am not... I used to do that, but I found it was a big time PITA, and did not really add much. After you get about 3m up the rope, there is weight beneath you in trailing rope pull through. However, the big caveat is that you need "easy-running" ascenders. Something like the Petzl shunt (which I also have) is super draggy, so you would need to weight the line.
something you could try would be isolating both ends of your rope, with 2 figure 8s in the top, with a bit of slack between them. that way if the knot breaks you still have the other strand
The reason for a static rope is you won't lose as much of your progress if you take a fall. :) I use the traxion too as my backup.
hey man, nice vid! how do you unload the tension on the roll n lock to disengage it when transitioning to rapel? many thanks
Using a shunt is really nice because when you're ready to rap down you just extend your atc and use the shunt normally. No need to remove any devices. Just disengage your rollnlock or micro Trax.
The Shunt device is not safe for top rope backup, and not ment to be used in this manner. It is intended for use UNDER a friction device while rappeling. Please watch: th-cam.com/video/Xh5UJNvrLWM/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=YannCamusBlissClimbing
From my experience the roll'n'lock an oval is the optimum shape for this device
Static lines will not have crazy rope stretch that needs to be removed from the sysyem when tr soloing.
I’ve used a shunt on a weighted single rope without incident and many falls (top roping). I’m fully aware that this constitutes a use of the shunt out with petzl user instructions and am aware that one rope is well… one rope, as in no backup.
Really - helpful... I've been youtubing this topic devices and setup and this brings it together... One question... What thickness rope... My 11mm is a tight fit in my gri gri and i wonder if the microtraction would be the same..in which case i was considering 2 rocknlocks?...
mine is a 9mm rope, but with the way the micotraxion works... I think you would have no issue with the thicker rope. Also with the roll n lock.
Two rollinglocks would be cool but I would consider a shunt. It will handle two stands of 11mm no problem and is a tried and true device.
My 10.5mm doesn't feed well through my microtraxion. My 9.8mm, no problem.
Just curious, is a double loop figure 8 (bunny ears) not a better knot to attach to the anchor with possible falls? Or is it over the top in your opinion? Awesome details man.
Hi Josh. Yep it probably would be better to do a double, but in my opinion, its not necessary. A single loop figure 8 is good enough attached to my harness when I am sport climbing, so my opinion is that its good enough here... Each to their own though.
I think also though it is important to note, I am not taking any major falls on this thing. In fact, I would say the energy that goes in when I fall on this (if ever) would be lower than even if I was top roping with a belay.
For me, I think I have found that keeping it simple is really important. Too much fannying around with knots and gear means that I am more likely to screw it up. Obviously, there is no-one there to check my gear, so for me, the number 1 risk is abseiling off my rope, and number two is some rookie error like putting my gear on incorrectly. Therefore I like to keep it simple if i can.
I guess the reason I use redundancy with the capture ascent devices, is that they are not actually TRS devices. Its not what they are made for, and therefore they will be imperfect. Whereas a climbing rope is a climbing rope. It is made not to break.
This is what I like to do. Its already kind of nerveracking so as much safety precaution as possible will help you climb better.
interesting video, where was this specifically in lake como?
I top rope solo bc I don’t trust anyone but me with my life. This was a good video 👍 I usually climb with just a kong duck, then I use grigri to abseil, but I think I’ll pick up one of those other ascenders on a dog tie for backup like you’re doing. Great idea.
Nice explanation but I would suggest moving that knot on the right side of the anchor a bit closer. Would probably never fail but quite a bit of extension if that bolt blows. Again probably would never happen with such low forces. Thanks for the video
yep you're definitely right. I did, however, recently watch a video on the How Not to Highline channel which slightly blew my mind... it showed that putting knots in the slings reduced their strength by 50%. I am thinking maybe now I would prefer to risk the shock load if a bolt were to break (unlikely), rather than risk the certainty of reducing the strength of my sling by 50%, by putting a knot in it. Confusing times.
Very helpful video! Just a question : which node do you use to link the two sides of the rope rope on the top? Is it necessary? Thank you!
hey dude. I am afraid I do not understand that question!
sorry, this just clicked. Its not the two sides of the rope. its actually the middle. So I take the middle of the rope, and tie a Figure 8 on a Bight. Then the two ends hang down. .
Awesome video sir ! Question, do you see any downsides other than cost running 2 micro traxion ?
Main argument I hear is that they are the same device and have the same failure cases, as opposed to say a traxion and roll n lock, and you can't directly rappel on two traxions so working a route could take some more time
nope, I do not really see a downside. Its easy, small, and light. I think its also rated higher than the roll n lock, so might be a better option.
For me, the reason I like these devices vs the others I have (including petzl shunt or the gri gri ) is that they are easy to put on, which means you're less likely to screw it up.... and they have very little drag on the rope, which means you do not have to weight down the bottom of the rope, so its easier to get going, and to change routes.
Please show us how the rope system was anchored. I'm a 50 something newbie
It’s worth noting that Yannis from Bliss Climbing found a failure mode for the roll n lock where, in the event the device gets twisted, the rope can get caught on the smooth plate on the inside and cause it not to lock. Seems like a super robust and redundant system though so I’d imagine that’s a pretty small issue.
That only occurs with certain diameters, but if you're worried about that you can grind the offending piece off (only necessary on one side - so the device can still retain it's full functionality). From memory only one of the "tabs" or whatever you want to call them needs to be removed (not even removed, just ground down to the point that the rope cannot get a hold on it).
Great video! Do you weight the rope at the base?
no, I do not. I used to, but it never seem to do help, and did make things more complex. If you use somethign like the Micro Trax, is has so little friction that you do not need any more weight than the rope already has.
I am intrigued by your sliding X anchor…
I think the top knot should be much lower.
The goal of these knots is to prevent too much downfall, should one of the anchor points fail, which would cause a shockload on the other point.
Here, you are barely reducing the distance you would fall… this is hardly different from no knot.
yep I think you're right. the knots should have been closer together.
Yes I think the equalisation could be Demo,d too. Potentially misleading? I like the 2 devices system though👍
Super interesting method of rappelling on GriGri while using the microtrax as a backup. But do you find it finicky to try to hold the micro open while heading down the ropes?
Short answer... Yes it's finicky! But you do kind of get better at it...
I don't think any backup is needed rappelling with a Grigri, it has one already built in. In fact, using a couple of fingers to grab the rope at the same time you hold open the micro traxion looks way more dangerous.
@@elsaltodelgallo286 Yes, I like getting those teeth far away from my rope when I'm descending. Also the Petzl Freino carabiner is great for rappelling as you can add friction on the lower. Great for for a heavier person like me.
Take a look at an ASAP instead of the traxxion. I know it cost a bit more but the design is self tending in both directions. Works like a seatbelt restraint lock using centrifugal force to activate.
How would you use this set up if you couldn't tie a figure 8 to the carabiner at the anchor? My local crag has a 2mm line attached to the anchor which we tie into out climbing rope and pull it through...
Afraid I dont really understand the question, but if you can get to the top, surely you can make a figure of 8 and attached it with a locking carabiner?
@@MrLeobedford there's a line that we run through the anchor and tie to a tree at the bottom of the crag so it's easy to attach your climbing rope to the existing rope and just pull through so that we don't have to hike to the top. However, this is ideal with a partner/belayer. Once I get to the crag, I tie my rope to the existing tiny paracord and the hand by hand pull it through the anchor.
Would this work for Ice climbing
Hi, can this setup be used with 2 rollnlock instead? Worried about the micro traxion teeth
Yep I think so. Maybe check how much the Roll n Lock is rated for?
I have not tested it in any scientific way, but for some reason, I get the feeling the Micro Trax is a safer device. I will also say that so far it has not damaged my rope... but also I have not taken any significant fall, AND I use the roll n lock as the primary, and the microtrax as the backup.
What's the difference between using a micro traction and an ascender like the ropeman from wild country?
no idea! I have only used the micro traxion, and the petzl shunt. The shunt was retired as it does not glide smoothly up the rope.
Some people tie or weight their rope at the bottom, but this was always a big PITA for me. These two devices slide up nicely, and do not require any weighting of the rope.
So many issues in this anchor setup. You've added knots to the sling but they are so high there will still be a big shock load on static gear. Your bina clipped direct to the bottom rap ring would be easier and safer!
In this setup use 2 binas and 2 8's - one for each line - you are one bina and a knot away from a true redundant anchor.
Think about not using the grigri on a biner you use for rope too (the wear marks are visible) use a dedicated biner for each item not quickdraws as holders, you'll get whipped in the knee by some solid metal.
To rely on letting go when system fail - is rather blue eyed. Normal panic reaction is to hold everything even tighter and pull towards yourself....
I learned kind of on my own. All you is a top rope setup with anchor and a gri gri. Everyone makes it so complicated lol
Lol ur my kind of asshole, I don't think we're supposed to admit that u only used 1 way to attach to the rope and probably had to manage the rope for the first few meters
no backup in case of grigri not locking?
What's "abs sailing"? Do I really need a sixpack?
Rappell
@@paincavefitness6053 I know ;)
Hi Leo! demo test falls if you are showing a TRS / LS method please! {test a catch on each device separately + both together}
(Magic X / Sliding X limit knot position pulled up elsewhere in comments, can you put an over text on the video acknowledging that this should not be copied & why)
sorry to sound like a miserable moaning H&S muppet! [you have a crossed strand on your fig8 On the Bight! that will be a git to undo. what about a pair of fig8OtB's so each line is more redundant?] have good sends! :-j
Need two lockers at your masterpoint. But thats just standard anchor rules that you should already know
2 non lockers or one locker is standard anchor practice. But 2 lockers makes for peace of mind!
It seem like there is a significant lack of redundancy throughout the system like: the single figure 8 vs a BFK or two figure 8; single locking carabiner as masterpoint vs two. Plus, doesn't it scare you that the Petzl micro traxion has the ability to lock in the open position? And the combo of holding open the traxion and backing up grigri with the same hand seems sketchy to be doing that many tasks at the same time with one hand. I think this system has many, single links of dependency. That plus the other notes of lowering the knot in the sling anchor to reduce extension may be helpful to mention in an edited version, description, or totally new video. I'm not sure about the static vs dynamic argument either, and I might try to understand it more before going top rope soloing. I think this whole video stands out as a case to be leading people to their deaths. Am I wrong?
I think that it depends on how important you think redundancy is for each piece of equipment. Not everything has to be redundant every time. As a life and climbing philosophy, I just don't worry about one-in-a-million risks. Worry about the things that actually kill people when climbing: lead falls with protection failure, rappelling/getting lowered off of the end of your rope, getting hit in the head with falling rocks. I am personally fine with a single figure 8 as long as it's not rubbing on anything and don't worry at all about trusting my life to a single locker. I agree that the gri-gri/micro traxion rappelling technique looks clumsy. I use an autoblock attached to my leg loop to back up my gri-gri when TR-soloing. With two strong bolts, especially when they are linked with chain like in this video, it doesn't really matter how you sling them together because that is not going to be a failure point no matter what. I would probably just put my master-point locker on the single stainless steel rappel ring at the bottom of the anchor.
yeah you make lots of good points. For me, I like to keep it simple, and when I am using gear for its designed purpose, I do not feel the need for redundancy, but that is just me.
e.g with the figure of 8. I tie a single figure 8 knot on my harness and take pretty big falls in the gym all day long. So if its good enough there, why would it not be good enough here (thats only my opinion).
Either way.. they are good points. The safest thing to do is stay at home, and this is the method I use to make the risks tolerable, for me.
Well, nearly every single climbing scenario has single points with no redundancy. Do you use two carabiners on your belay device or just one when belaying your partner? Do you alway climb with double ropes or do you sometimes climb with a single and tie in with a single figure 8 knot? Do you use two carabiners on your repel device or just a single? Are there two carabiners on the ends of your Quickdraws? Climbers trust theirs lives to a single carabiner every day and every climb.
It’s an emotive statement that can’t be fully dismissed or endorsed. I don’t think it’s death on a stick, it’s up to us all to absorb information and make our own judgement. Also there is no requirement for end to end redundancy in recreational climbing unless you are operating under a scheme that dictates it.
It doesn’t have many single links, it has 3 and that fine as a personal setup.
Next time just use the steps😆😆😆😆😆
I feel your top rope master point is horrible with too less redundancy…
Back up your belay/rappel loop with a loop of 9/16" supertape or 6mm Perlon. Don't be Todd Skinner.
Audio OK video bs.