300Tdi Lift pump Finding the optimal spacer to prevent damage. Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
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Great explanation of this problem. You’ll have to get your machinist to make a load of spacers and start offering them for sale. Another income flow. Happy days!
Just use 3 gaskets on the 300Tdi
3 gaskets on vaccum pump mike?
Really good experiment Mike, it sure answers a lot of those questions that circulate around the "urban myth" of the "you need a pump to block spacer" mob. I'll still stick with the electric "push" pump mounted between the tank and the filter /sedimenter at the rear. Nice work mate.
When you see part 2, you will see the output of a spaced pump!
You are a genious!
What a cracking ramble learnt loads 👏 thanks Mike
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice experiment Mike. I had a 350 Freight Rover van with a 15j 2.5 diesel, it had a slim almost shim like spacer on the lift pump, only difference between the 15j Freight Rover engine and the other Landrover derivatives was the timing case, everything else is the same 👍
Thanks for the info
As always, good clear information! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
hi Mike I can remember an prewar car pump you had to shim to get the fuel volume, nothing really changes over time, great video
Part 2 will show the difference in spaced outputs!
Loving it Mike, I can see JP making custom spacer's 😂
My replacement Delphi pump just lasted about 3000 miles before problems with starting and stalling or no power at idle revs. I have just fitted a QH pump with 2 thick type gaskets but watching this video which I somehow missed I think I’ll fit another one of those thick type gaskets, it’s just a bit awkward on the vehicle. Will check with my vernier how thick mine are first.
Mike does science .. always interesting ( but i prefer to have a quality electric fuel pump & filter )
Total logical thinking
Wspaniałe filmy jak zawsze.
This was interesting, however I think we need to get you a white board Mike! (Oh and I burnt the dinner watching this!).
Would not be white for long...
Hi Mike, another superb informative vid, I had issues with a diesel fuel pump, some Whit had fitted a petrol fuel pump cover/mounting, so the flow to the dpa pump was strangled, got so fed up looking for parts just fitted a suitable electric pump, end of problem, Regards Phil
Thanks for sharing
Brilliant, thanks Mike
Mega knowledge transfer mate👍🏻
Cheers for making the video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Excellent info as usual Mike.
Last December i've replaced the lift pump on my Disco 1 and used the supplied gasket and made another one of thick 1.2mm gasket paper.
Not perfect, but it alleviates a bit of that extra stroke range. In the light of this, I think I'll put another gasket.
Thanks and cheers.
See the next part for the pressure and volume test!
@@BritannicaRestorations yeah, I'll watch it with my full attention.
Thanks.
Who needs AutoCAD. Great experiment. My Friday night reduction in brain capacity should have been a bit less taxed, but it got there in the end. Interesting noting the different cam lobes in between the conventional inlet and exhaust ones.
See tomorrow's interesting video on pressure and volume!
Another way to skin this cat.
A) You established pump mount to eccentric distance.
B) Take camshaft to JP and mount it in a lathe.
C) make an adaptor to fit on tool post to mount the pump with bolt holes on camshaft centre line.
D) Use cross slide to achieve optimum distance between mount and eccentric, you could test with fuel and hoses.
E) Calculate shim required.
F) By retaining the mount you could check.out other pumps/ camshafts/ engine blocks.
G) Sit back and enjoy a Jamieson, 7.45 over here I'm on the Guiness - hic.
F) it might be tha
But you need the cam in the block to work out the face of the pump mounting on the block
Apologies Mike .sounding like a sm@rt ar$e, not intending to challenge you.
Block to cam eccentric could be done with a depth mic.
Carry on the good work.
Good video Mike. Shitpart do a liftpump kit stc1190 and that has that spacer with it.
Indeed, they do, BUT it is bolted to a block mounting plate which is flat whereas the 300Tdi has a raised boss cast into the block, if you used the spacer it would be too thick - not seen a 200Tdi pump for years so do not know the length of the operating arm
Nice one King Mike but thas this work on all 300tdi engines and what abalt on 200tdi?
Cheers King Mike. 🥃
200 Tdi are ok
Hi Mike, Have a great day mate. This time I have the first comment. Cheers Steve.
You too!
@@BritannicaRestorations Cheers
Very interesting just looked at my 300tdi and no spacer has a Delphi pump. Are you going to have the spacer’s made for your shop . Great videos
No - just use 3 gaskets
Back again, so previously I stated I had replaced my lift pump with a cheaper version that didn't have a primer handle, turns out I was wrong, fact was it was broken off, the clattering that sounded like a bad lifter was the main pin that the primer leaver AND the main pump leaver pivot off was dislodged and had slightly moved horizontally, I was lucky the whole thing didn't collapse, I was able to make up my own main pin (shaft) with some stainless rod and sort the problem out, SO I THOUGHT, after fitting and then driving the vehicle I still had a clattering sound on that side of the block, in my mind it was now the vacuum pump, just before replacing it I thought I'd stick one more gasket in between the block and the lift pump (now three gaskets as Mike said) after assembly I drove the vehicle at all manner of revs , the clattering is gone, Mike was dead right👍.(oh and I don't have to replace my vacuum pump 😅)
Great stuff!
So with out the gaskets/spacer....the pump will break almost instantly due to overcrank movement. The length of the pump arm might differ between manufacturer or compere to original part. Good observation and brilliance job.
Correct - and unlike a petrol pump which has a float and valve inside to alleviate the pump action, the diesel pump is constantly running as it returns fuel to the tank via the injector pump
@@BritannicaRestorations that why my friend new feul pump break in less than 10 minutes. He changed to OEM after break it's twice.
Pump is too close to the bock and causes stress on the mechanism
Mmm, I'm reckoning I need to put just one more gasket in, originally I thought I had a lift pump problem so I put a new spare pump on , I just used the two gaskets provided ( the old pump only had two also) one thing I noticed was the new pump doesn't have a primer lever and more so it makes a noise that sounds like a faulty hydraulic lifter in one of those old V8 petrol motor's, wondering if it's simply because it's a cheaper aftermarket pump or if it's got something to do with what your talking about mmm.
Sounds like a very cheap pump - I have never seen one without a lift lever
Very interesting indeed! Are you going to do the same thing for the vacuum pump since you’ve mentioned before about using two gaskets on that to try and help longevity?
Good idea while I have the engine out - JP has a pump that he is working on the core plug fix
We are all being told through COVID, follow the science, well you have just done that with the fuel pump, brilliant best yet. Did they alter the cam profile from the 200tdi to the 300tdi? I have an original Disco 200 tdi ……with a spacer!
The cam profile for the valves was the same, I believe.
The 200 block is different in many ways to the 300 Tdi block
It would be interesting to know if all lift pumps are created equally, or if some have more or less range of movement...
I experimented with Delphi and cheap AC pumps and they both had similar results on output.
Hi Mike love the videos. I have the Delphi pump fitted and recently had issues where the engine seemed to be suffering fuel starvation so pulled the fuel system apart to find the reason, the sedimenter and the pre-filter were full of debris so i ended up pulling the pump off and giving it a good clean and flush through. Before going to refit with the three gaskets I did look at the operation of the pump, I agree with your findings for the distance of arm travel when operated by the manual arm but this operates the pump via a cam acting on the main arm. The full travel of that arm at the point of contact on the engine cam is >9mm before any apparent mechanical stress (the eccentric cam is 5.92mm). Will the capacity of the the pump to provide enough flow not be compromised if the stroke is reduced by fitting additional gaskets?
Very nice. Great infomation for when mine fails.
I do wonder if you can space it a touch more and still get enough flow plus less stress on the pump. If 3 gets you the full throw of the pump. Would 4 still be close enough and extend the life of the pump?
I needed 2.61 mm, so 3 gaskets were a little more than I needed - see tomorrow's pressure and volume test!
@@BritannicaRestorations Looking forward to it!
But why did LR drop spacer part. They didn't change pump part no.? It was a change in volume??
Now if only someone supplied a spacer kit with two gaskets and a 20-22 SWG (0.7-0.9 mm) shim rather than the aftermarket spacers...
3 gaskets work well
Good show Mike.
I have a Delphi and a pump similar to the one you are using. Can you do the same measurement for a Delphi pump, because it's lever has different dimensions?
At least they are different on the pumps I bought.
It would be interesting to see flow rates between one and three or maybe 4 gaskets at 4 PSI at 2000 rpm.
What is the part number for the 1 mm gasket, because I bought some spares that were 0.4 mm thick.
When I tested the Delphi against the copy A/C one, there was hardly any difference in results. In part 2 you will see me do a pressure and flow test
Gaskets were Britpart ERR2028 1mm thick
You do not need to turn the pump very fast - more speed does not always equate to more pressure!
@@BritannicaRestorations did you use hylomar blue in-between all the gaskets?
Great video Mike. I have just had this dilemma rebuilding a 2.5NA diesel. Do you think the same spacer width applies for that engine? PS I have installed the spacer with gasket either side (as per the original engine diagram). I am not sure quite what to feel for with the pump, my engine is rebuilt and running well (still not on road) and there was definitely resistance to the fuel lift pump lever when I manually primed to bleed and start the engine for the first time, but I don’t know where the cam was when I did this of course, I assume if there was resistance the lift pump is engaging at least at some stage in the camshaft rotation. What would be the symptoms to look for if there was no engagement between lift pump lever and camshaft?
I have never had a problem with 2.5NA or turbos
Ummmm, So it damages because someone left out that spacer. I think mine is a ok. But I can easily cut out spacer with aluminum sheet. I thought its diaphragm get hard and eventually cracks then not enough pressure.... So what is the correct thickness of that spacer? Do u think it will give more power if I adjust space the the minimum?
I don't think you've lost your center! I love your exercises! But I gess you missed the exellaration of an excentric running cylinder. A harmonic driven cam runs the following parts without a shock while being exellarated. A beam exellarated by a cylinder would kill it.
I guess that's the reson why there a no spacers available.
They are useless.
Доброе утро Майкл, старый хозяин машины ставил насос без прокладки, сломал наверно насосов 6 шт.
Слишком напряжно!
Mike, how much do the lift pump gaskets compress once you have tightened the bolts up ? Do you still have the necessary clearance when the thing is properly bolted in place ?
Negligible. I needed 2.61 and the gaskets were 1 mm each
A bit difficult to measure the compression
@@BritannicaRestorations Yes I guess they won’t compress by as much as 0.4mm! I have just ordered some gaskets from Landrover just because that’s easier for me, I’ll let you know how thick the genuine gasket is!
Would be interesting to know!
This is madness why would they make something that needed three gaskets just make the base of the pump a little bit thicker and just use one gasket.
I think the original manufacture (A/C) made a pump for Petrol engines, and it was grafted onto diesels as it was low pressure