Board Game Reviews Ep #2: MAGE KNIGHT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- This board game was sent to me by Wizkids:
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There's a certain kind of game that assumes the rulebook is a reference manual. Like...it's not weird to say "you can't learn to speak English by reading the dictionary." Everyone understands you basically have to already know English to make any use out of the dictionary.
Similarly, a lot of games assume you know someone who plays. Mage Knight, D&D, Magic the Gathering, Warhammer all assume you arrived here because you know someone who plays. So you learn the game by playing, and only once you basically already know something would you bother to look up a rule to get clarification.
I can't imagine what it would be like to have NEVER HEARD of D&D (for instance) and see a rulebook, buy it, and try to figure out what the hell is going on.
One thing these games have in common is that they appeal to teenagers who have a lot of time, and love that feeling like "there is an answer to all my questions here!" They love that feeling of mastering a complex system. To them, that is part of the fun.
As we get older we tend to find that stuff tedious and focus more on stuff that's fun, as opposed to complicated for the sake of being complicated.
Never thought I'd see you here
Matthew Colville I see.
True, i see myself in this haha
Totally playing dnd with a group who never played it for the first time would be horrible.
@@jonnil1997 ummm, that is totally my situation right now. We’d heard of D&D and it sounded really fun, but none of us had every played it. I’m a really big rules person, so I was the only one who read through the rules and I had to help everyone else make their characters. It was because of this that I’ve become the forever DM. We’ve played about 8 sessions so far, and while I don’t always know what I’m doing, I’m fully aware that the rules don’t dictate how we play, it’s me who makes the rules following the general formula D&D has provided. We’ve had some very stupidly unfair but hilarious moments happen in our sessions because of my inability to tell my players they couldn’t do something. And while we’re all inexperienced, we have so much fun every time, and at the end of the day that’s what matters.
A messy rules delivery can murder a good game because only the most determined will trudge through it enough to truly grasp how it works.
As someone who loves Battletech I can confirm this to be true.
I haven’t played too many complicated board games but occasionally magic the gathering can be very difficult for me to follow at some points, especially when it comes to remembering what creature effects do what or how they work as well as how card combos work.
@@Jasonixel no shade but if MTG is hard to follow you are in for it..
@@hughmann9568 Yee, it’s a hobby I rarely have time for so I don’t get to practice enough with building decks and trying them out in games with other people.
I think the rules are quite intuitive. I just played this game for the first time in years and it took me only 15 minutes to brush up.
For what it's worth, this was one of the first boardgames I owned. I spent hours learning the game and watching playthroughs, but I loved every second of it.
Eventually, a friend came over and when he asked "what's new", I shyly said that I had bought a board game that I really liked. He very kindly insisted that we try it out, and as I began setting up the game, he started commenting on how cool the artwork and components were. I excitedly walked him through the first scenario, and he seemed to become just as captivated by the game's puzzle as I was. The night ended and when he left I had a goofy smile on my face - a suspended disbelief that one of my friends was willing to try a complex fantasy board game without reservation, and that they actually seemed to enjoy it just as much as me.
A week later, a different friend came over and asked if I could show him Mage Knight because he heard it was amazing...
After that, all 3 of us would meet up once a week for a full semester to play Mage Knight. They are two of my closest friends, and although we now all live in different parts of the world, we all own our own copy that we use to introduce other people into the board gaming hobby. Why such a heavy game? Why Mage Knight? Because there's something special about the world, and there's a satisfaction that comes with solving each hand as you explore it. People just need one guided playthrough to be hooked because Mage Knight is an adventure, and everyone enjoys being on an adventure with friends.
Was pretty daunted at first. Watched Ricky Royal's walkthrough and yea I was set straight. Now I have an ultimate edition and wow what a beast of a game.
Wow, fantastic story
Took me 3 weeks to learn as I was only a few months into the hobby when I bought it.
At first I thought it was an unnecessarily complex game lauded by elitists trying to justify the money they blew.
But after a couple of plays, its brilliance emerged. And the thematic nature of the mechanics became evident.
Fast forward a couple of years and it's now my #1 game of all time.
It was also one of my first games. I've noticed that people new to board gaming seem to have more patience with the learning curve. Experienced gamers tend to spend more time criticizing the rulebook. I suspect that more games owned contributes to a feeling of having less time to learn a new game.
no need to flex that you have so many friends, man :c
Mage Knight is very complicated. Even for most board game players. I've played over 500 games and Mage Knight is definitely in the top 5% of complexity.
Also, I highly suggest checking out Gloomhaven if you want a fantasy dungeon crawler board game.
Stefan Lopuszanski I've been trying to find what is a good coop dungeon crawl board game, and I think I might start with Gloomhaven. It sounds like the best one out there.
Zectifin If you're still looking for a good dungeon crawl board game, I highly recommend Shadows of Brimstone. There are two core sets each around 80 dollars. I have both and there's so much content that I've played 100+ hours without getting to everything yet. Also it's a fraction of the price of what gloomhaven is.
@@StefanLopuszanski Is gloomhaven more complex?
@@ivanb4681 : Both yes and no. I'd say there is more complexity due to the amount of variety of combinations, but the rules are more logical in general (save for some weird AI rules and other minor things).
Did he just say that he doesn't like that thing? But... I like that thing. You son of a bitch! I LIKE THAT THING!
Imagine playing Skyrim, but for every location, enemy, or NPC you come across you have to stop and go read their ENTIRE elder scrolls wiki page before continuing to play.
Imagine playing Skyrim, but it's actually fun and strategic instead of a boring mess.
This is one of my favorite board games and I absolutely agree, in part. This game has a STEEP learning curve. It is the most involved board game I've played, a level above Dead of Winter. The best way to learn this game is to literally just watch other people play it and ask questions. After the first game, things start to settle in your mind and after the second it should be easy to play.
This is one of the few games that I've played, went home, and thought "How could I have played better?" and came up with a lot of serious answers to those questions. An unsung aspect in this review is that it can also be played solo, so you don't need to have people around if you want to play it!
Brutally honest, this is what I came here for.
I don't think anyone can give you shit for saying Mage Knight's complicated-- it's a crazy mess. I liked it, but my group had a veteran walking us through. I can't imagine how rough it would be playing from scratch, with the crazy double book nonsense.
Kudos for giving it a shot, though. I'm stoked you'll be covering heavier strategy stuff. Hope you like your next game better.
Edit: also hell yeah Terra Mystica.
I learned it from Ricky Royal's tutorial vids. DEFINITELY helped. After that I just referred to the rulebook for a few additional tidbits. I bought the ultimate edition and I've been going at it for a few weeks now and I have to say, it may not be for everybody but if you like fantasy, this game will swallow you up whole.
Watching this was very comforting because it echoes my first time playing this with some friends. And I don't even play board games like that. I think the fact that I love medieval fantasy so much, in any format, is the reason why I couldn't stay away. That first session was like, 3-5 years ago. Now, I'm balls deep in Mage Knight, with the mod on Tabletop Simulator, and with fan-created content like Quests cards and Ymirgh the Mighty.
Which version do you play on TTS? I use Mage Knight plus, which is supposed to be the best and I can’t stand that layout. I have to either zoom out and sacrifice readability or stay half zoomed and move around to get from the play area (crystals, owned skills) to the map. And forget about the cards on offer. It’s allll the way off to the right. If you’re playing something better I’d love to know.
I'm glad you were pretty honest about things you didn't like the game. That being said. You sold me on this game. I kind of love board games with layers of mechanics like this. I'm going to buy it next time I'm at the game store.
When you understand the symbology of the cards, they have all the information you need. When you understand the basic mechanics of 'terrain has special things that spawn something', there really isn't any stopping during play: 'Oh mage tower. Purple monster. If I'm going to attack, lose rep, reveal. Fight.'
The game is complex, but one play through...of course you will have to refer to cards and books to understand symbols. By the second time you will know what they do and the game is much more fluid.
Weird, I found the Robinson Crusoe rule book to be a million times worse than the Mage Knight rule book. Had to go look up translations from the German rulebook just to see what the 'real' rule was, and often it wasn't clear even then.
Mage Knight is rough the first game but I actually like the reference layout for occasionally checking something once you know how to play.
robinson crusoe's rule book had some weird text for sure, but the structure of mage knight's rule book wasn't for me
ProZD fair enough. Looking forward to more reviews :)
Well, the two book things work really well in fantasy flight game, the learn to play and rules reference are great
Yeah, Mage Knight is rough the first time around, even somewhat the second time, because there is just so much information to take in. Still personally It's my absolute favorite boardgame. But yeah not a good game for beginners.
Oh man, this game is sooooo fiddly. If you move this way, this rule applies, if you in that area that applies. Is such soooo hard to keep up with the rules. And then, when it's night, everything changes!!
When I first got into the hobby, this was the first game I got. This game I don't even recommend to seasoned gamers by default. Only once I finished the game (and won! (solo)) and it did feel like an accomplishment, but man... It just feels like a workday (at a job you love, but it's still one hell of a job!).
The dummy player is also a bit fiddly, so I got the lost legion expansion. The general moves logically, but fighting the general is also very hard. And yea, even at fighting, you have to look so many rules up.
I even get tired thinking about it! That being said, it is a very awesome game! (Confused much? Then this game isn't for you :P)
Mage knight is a game that's very rewarding for players that are willing to traverse through the terrible rulebook. My father and I got it at a comic book store at a discount and we were pretty upset to learn how long it takes.
What gets me is that the designer of this board game is also responsible for Codenames, which is pretty much the opposite in terms of complexity.
I agree with you on the complexity of the walk through and rule books. It took me 2 times to understand the walk through and I still didn't get it all right so I played a 3rd. I could tell (like you, I think) that the core gameplay was enjoyable so I stuck with it. Now I love it although I don't play very often (and exclusively solo).
This game is awesome and I want to pull it out right now at 1am after watching your first impression. If you kinda liked it I would suggest playing it again soon and deciding after that. Cheers!
It sounds like the game you really want to play after liking the hand management and card play for movement and combat in this but not liking the more fiddly rules is Gloomhaven. The second printing is just about to ship out to stores in mid-fall this year. You should check it out!
I played the original miniature game for years, hit me right in the childhood with this one.
There is a walkthrough guide series to help you learn this game a lot easier and faster ofc you will still be reading rules when you need to but helps a ton with setup and general gameplay
As others suggested- I watched through Ricky Royal’s play throughs, as well as all the one stop co-op shop’s playthoughs. Modern Cardboard did amazing 3 videos series teaching the game in very graphic and easy to learn way. After watching these videos, probably 10 hours in total, it was easy to play he game and I only had to come to the rulebooks very occasionally.
Love the game!
Its so crazy because I used to play the original mage knight and seeing this it looks like its SOOOOO far from what it used to be.
Hey, good review! You keep saying "we", and I'm curious as to how many people you played with. I'm not sure if you're aware, but Mage Knight gets mostly recommended as a solo game. From that perspective, the high complexity and game length make a lot more sense.
That's not to say that it's unplayable with multiple players, but it's highly recommended that you play with only two experienced players, maaaybe three if you all know the game really well and aren't notoriously slow at taking turns. Learn it solo, teach others one at a time using the walkthrough, and don't be afraid to use the Blitz scenarios instead of the full ones. That'll keep your games to about 3 hours or less.
Oh, and as for the location cards, they actually are pretty much comprehensive, to the point that once you know the game you can play entirely from the location cards and the reference on the back of the rulebook. But when you're doing the Walkthrough, it *is* critical to read the accompanying text in the book, since they're using the locations to introduce relevant game rules (e.g. using Mage Towers to explain Spells).
Hey, your cat has the same name as mine
And the same colour
Mate have you stolen my fucking cat?
I actually played this with two friends, who are also not veteran board gamers. Yes, it was tough getting into and it was a lot of stop-and-go while we had to reference the rules. It was also a lot of fun when we finally got some flow; and when you figure out how to combine cards to beat a tough fight you feel really accomplished. As long as people are patient, and you put the most suited person to the job of rule referencing, it's a really interesting game -- even if you're not a veteran board gamer.
Oh, but I guess the problem is that you don't really bang out a campaign in one evening if you're new to the game. We had some free evenings over a few days with nothing else to focus on so it helped.
Mystic Vale is a great one if you like deckbuilding. Definitely worth a play.
I don't even care about the game, I just love hearing him talk about it with passion ❤️
I'm new to board games and I'm learning how to play Mage Knight. I'm a mad lad.
I loves when the video started and you making the funny voice of the narrator and then you stoped abruptly and said this is a lot xD lmao
I really don't think the rules are that complicated. The only problem I have with this game is the Analysis Paralysis. That being said, Mage Knight is without question my top 1 board game.
It's a blast to play solo and if you want to play with others someone really really needs to know the rules backwards and forwards for it to go smoothly I think. Ricky Royals playthrough is really the rule book imo I have no clue how anyone learns to play it with the printed rule books. The learning curve is insane but I really love it and it only gets better with replays. In the beginning the cards feel constricting and you want to do things that you can't because of your hand, but learning how to maximize your turns with only 3 days and nights is incredibly well balanced and with the Lost Legion expansion (especially for solo) the game is just amazing.
The first mage knight game was lots of fun.
Ha, i was reading a Vlaada Chvatil (maker of mage knight) Galaxy Trucker book when i stopped to see this.
I think the rules are quite intuitive. I just played this game for the first time in years and it took me only 15 minutes to brush up.
Turns out when you actually do the walkthrough and read the rules the game sticks.
It took 12 hours for my friend and I's first playthrough, then the average game was about 6 hours each once we got used to it
Even if your fantasy story is the most exciting thing ever, if the first few chapters fail to have a strong hook, then most readers are not going to know that.
Looking for a fantasy board game for me and my girlfriend to play we've never done a complicated one (by complicated I mean we've never played more than Monopoly) but stuff like this sounds fun any recommendations?
small world's a really fun fantasy game, it's definitely not like this game, but i think it'd be a nice step up for a new board game player (AND it's really fun)
ProZD Thank you so much it means a lot to me that you took the time to reply, I love your video's
0:
ProZD I just ordered it from the reviews I read it's amazing so I can't wait to play
Clank! might also be something you'd enjoy: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/201808/clank-deck-building-adventure
Glad I saw this review. Was planning on buying this because of it's bgg ranking but I'm relatively new to boardgames and I don't think I can or want to deal with such a complicated system. Any recommendations for a miniature boardgame with good minis and that's easy to pick up and teach non-gamers?
I'll be honest... I had no issue with the walk-through and follow-up with rule book. I think it is awesome that they give you the cards with sites. Imo.
It's not THE most complicated game ever, but it certainly one of the most complicated games in the top 100 of boardgame geek.
I love these board game videos
That rule book is like assembly instructions for furniture. Yeah, it's there but nobody really uses it. You flip through it, set it aside, and then only pick it up again when you need to figure out why one side of the bookshelf is 3 inches shorter than the other side. I mean...wait, what? I'm totally not speaking from experience.
Nice review. Honest, and relatable. You present things in a very good style for casual gamers. Keep up the good work.
Your narrative never stops amazing me
Everyone who plays mage knight freely admits the rulebook has a terrible layout, but it's interesting to hear your perspective on the walkthrough. It really is meant to explain the rules piece by piece by showing the game rather than forcing you to read the rulebook.
Man this makes me miss the OG mage knight. It got turned into heroclix but I miss the high fantasy version TBH
One time me and an old gf went to a board game bar and after reading about a game called Contagion decided to try...even though we are noobs. Anyway so we got drunk and eat all while struggling to play this game. It's such a struggle we lose our passion to play...come to find out we tried playing an extension pack for like 2 hours with having never had played..dumb. but I love this dude
Genuine content, much appreciated
It's Wizkids so it's not perfect but it's up there in the top thematic (Ameritrash) board games of all time - at no 16 according to Board Game Geek.
Oh my god, is this related to the old Mage Knight miniatures wargame with clickbases I played as a kid way back in the late 90s?
Oh shit, got to the figures, it is! This is CRAZY. The wargame was like, my CHILDHOOD man. I loved that game, I still have the old armies in my closet. Wild they made it into a board game that apparently people like here. Has anyone actually played the wargame?
Oh, looking it up, it was early 2000s not late 90s. Couldve sworn I played it back when I lived in New Mexico but...Whatever
If you can round up 3 friends: Arcadia Quest, its both PvE and PvP (how PvP it is depends on your friends........). Otherwise, Gloomhaven is all Co-Op. Blood Rage is all PvP, theres strategy, but its all short term strategy, it's super easy, and you can have multiple winners.
Will we ever see a gloomhaven review?
Runebound is a lighter version of mage knife and way cheaper
It sounds like it’s poorly worded. There’s a few games I’ve played where they’ve give you multiple books, one called “how to play” and “rules reference guide”. You know straight away to ignore the RRG from the start until after first game as the learner game is all contained in the first book.
Pro zd, the man the myth the legend, the hero TH-cam needs
0:29 that Is how i always picture king dragon xD a cool dude with a dragon armor
This may be my favorite boardgame that I own (I own a lot). I play it a lot with my little brother. This game is it's best with 2 players, 3 players is doable, 4 players are too much.
I agree that the rulebook is pure dogshit. It may be worst rulebook I've ever read.
Great for couple of more hardcore boardgame players. It really is not for beginners though :P
Star Trek frontiers is mage knight, almost carbon copy. But with less cumbersome rules, it’s a better made knight.
I'm a heavy hex&counter wargamer and I found Mage Knight ridiculasly confusing and tedious!
more board game reviews please!
i dont know dude i played maybe 3-4 games reading rule book 50% of the time then 5 more games just checking rulebook at some moments. Now im just playing the game and its awesome. Even my wife knows all the rules
Great Game but I had a very similar experience with the learning curve. I felt the rule books we're not designed gamer friendly. I believe they should revamp the rulebook to assist newcomers to this game. Thanks for sharing this video Sir!
Love the 20th Century Boys shirt. Would love to see your take on Millennium Blades, since you like deck builders.
The original Heroclix version was less complicated to play. Not saying the changes are bad, but I'm surprised how different it has become.
who tf printed out Wikipedia and made it a rule book omg
Fuck, this game's rulebook looks like a freakin' TTRPG Core Rulebook that has been compressed down to a few pages.
Like seriously, from the sounds of this review, it would be easier learning to play Dungeons and Dragons (which can be pretty simple if you play 5e.)
I love your reviews. However have you played tokaido. I can't seem to understand the rules :/ I know it isn't one sent to you to review but I don't know what I'm doing lol
Our first time playing the setup was an hour and a half and it took us 2 more hours to play and we never finished.
Love all your stuff pro. You should check out talisman. A very fun fantasy flight game.(RIP) I think you would really like it.
You should take a look at the History of the Mage Knight game, it was the predecessor of Heroclix
Mage knight, Heroclix-Various other Clix games that never sold, new mage knight.
20th Century Boys tee? I dig it.
I got this game because of it complexity, but it just has TOO many things it's not the complexity, it's the amount of relatively simple things, like there was so many pieces you could have taken out of the game and it would have felt better to play but at least for me it's just a slog its slow paced to a fault. Fame could probably get lost as could day/night, unit buying, and spells come to mind
Sounds like more of a table top D&D game rather than a traditional board game.
The only way I see this "walkthrough" idea working is in a game that has random elements (ie random tile placement, random encounters, etc.) And is somewhat complex, so they "design a game" in the walkthrough where instead of random placement and such happening, things are placed in a way that is designed to give the player(s) a taste of how everything works in the game since random placement/encounters and such means that there is a chance you may not experience something in that game that is important. That way, any future games can be played easier since you have already experienced most of what you need to play.
Sounds like a really high learning curve. Kinda reminds me of D&D on the Dungeon Master side of things, the caveat being that on the player side, it's more or less easier :))
I much preferred the original Mage Knight where it was all about the HeroClix miniatures
Fun RPG. It just takes so damn long to play. Character mats would be nice too.
Here I am: 4, Thin, Shades, Wagga, Racing Bench
the music loop stressed me out, it doesn't loop fluidly
Well, if you think that's complicated, don't play THIS game.
This looks cool to play but I feel like I would forget some rules
I've been enjoying Maiden's Quest recently, a light game from the same publisher... with a rulebook that makes it seem WAY more complicated than it is. This might be a recurring problem with the publisher. I've been watching Mage Knight rules videos and it seems like everyone can explain the game better than the rulebook.
Great review video!
Drink every time he says "complicated."
brooo one of my fav game
WHOA
IS THAT
FRIENDS T SHIRT
OH BOI
A tip that helped me was to watch RickyRoyals walkthrough. After that everything was very simple. The rule book for mage knight is horrible. I am actually surprised you enjoyed Robinson Crusoe since that rule book is among the worst ever created. Mage Knight is a great experience, sadly marred by a bad rulebook. Watch Ricky’s walkthrough.
Holy fucking shit 20th century boys is the shit, give me that shirt
Cool shirt, friend.
this is the card game.. you use the models. like warhammer 40k to stack ontop of all this. thats what magic the gathering was.
This is so like Civ 6
You hit mage knight perfectly on the head. I loved the idea and the card mechanics but the caveats on caveats on rules got old.
the most complicated game i have is Battlelore so i don't even know the half of it
I think this game would be more fun if you have a dungeon master like d&d
Sick sad world t-shirt?!
It's funny. Videos of you trying Japanese candy and snacks, despite myself being a big fan of Japanese culture and anime? Eh, pass.
Videos of you talking about board games, despite not having that much involvement with them? SIGN ME RIGHT THE FRICK UP!
I doubt get it? Is it because it's a new frontier for me? Is it my writer's side getting intrigued by the possible scenarios. These videos, for some reason, just feels...refreshing.
With the ever dwindling presence of couch multiplayer in video games, board games have made a strong resurgence. If you're able to physically get a group of friends together, I'd highly recommend it.
All imma say is Pathfinder