Is Bitcoin worth $100k or $0? Debate with Saifedean Ammous, Steve Hanke, and Hong Fang (Pt. 1/2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Watch part 2 of this debate: • Is Bitcoin the next gl...
How can Bitcoin be valued, and what is its worth? In part 1 of this panel discussion, Steve Hanke, professor of applied economics at Johns Hopkins University, Hong Fang, CEO of OKCoin, and Saifedean Ammous, author of ‘The Bitcoin Standard’, debate Bitcoin’s utility, history, and its “fundamental value.”
0:00 - Bitcoin's utility
3:27 - Bitcoin and Austrian Economics
5:18 - Steve Hanke on Bitcoin's fundamental value
8:23 - Hong Fang's response to Steve Hanke
16:45 - Saifedean Ammous on Bitcoin's growth
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Watch part 2 of this debate: th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
That woman is as stupid as her smirk. The professor nailed it all!
Two Bitcoin Morton's mobbed with their infantile stupidity an esteemed professor. Make debate symmetrical. Bring peter Schiff to help him!
For the record i sent bitcoin at 6sat/byte multiple times recently and got 3+ confirmations within an hour
Cost was $1
Kirkland Lake Gold Ltd
Thanks for the review
+1
This is cute and all but we want Michael Saylor vs Peter Schiff.
need a better bear AND bull. Those two say the same shit all the time, that's just entertainment. We need people with more insight and perspective, maybe like these above. It's been a while since I've heard any decent debates on BTC or money in general. Most of the time it's the same talking points, without addressing any holes in theory. Also preferably someone who can talk intelligently and calmly
That would be like a Jerry Springer show!
Saifedean is the man. Nobody was talking hard money before him. And he’s never lost a debate. Schiff is a lame debater same points and won’t listen.
saylor would never do that. he knows he would get schooled, the only reason hes so deep into bitcoin was to save his failing company. he basically has to be a spokesman for bitcoin now because his company has turned into a bitcoin etf.
Michael Saylor is a shill and maybe a con man. Look up his 2000 SEC violation and fine for misleading investors on revenue recognition and their stock dropped by 90%. Now he's the BTC spokesperson to save his dot bomb again??
The value is in the fact that it's not controlled by a government.
Oh it will be
Not yet
It's a digital illusion of wealth, that's why no government cares yet.
Already controlled by people that control governments, so basically the same thing. BTC is a wet dream to these people because it is a deflationary "currency". This inherently causes more and more of it to become concentrated into the hands of the ultra wealthy over time. Hello serfdom for the 21st century.
@@joelafrite7850 it’s a trap. Stringing out the masses with false illusions. The CBDC isn’t ready yet
There’s no real bitcoin debate without Peter Schiff!
Hell yeah 🔥
and eggplants
hanke makes the same point that schiff says, the greater fool. its fine buying bitcoin as long as u dont end up being the greatest fool when the price collapses.
YES! We want PETER!
@@davidscully2414 like schiff is selling you his gold because he doesnt want to be the greatest fool! :) :)
We need more of this content, great job Kitco
Nah man, this guy doesn't understand Bitcoin. Waste of time having him.
Gold doesn’t give you cash value, it stores it. Bitcoin does the same, only better, and with utility value. Transferring, and storing it yourself.
You can’t use it? Try to send a million dollars to Europe, then send a million bitcoin to Europe. Kids, grandchildren, great.grandchildren, remember grandpa’s words, mine will remember the Satoshi’s I bequeath them. More painful to image the losses to those that listen to this fool, than his offspring.
@@seriouslyyoujest1771 Wrong, gold jewelry market account of a little over half of all gold demand worldwide, which about $ 300 billion annually in cashflows
" Bitcoin holds value" that statement , a year ago, aged well amigo. If you don't know gold you don't know history.
That's awesome!! David please arrange something like that with Peter Schiff
There was one a couple of weeks ago. Look it up. 2 parts
P.Shiff and Nouriel Roubini vs the Shitcoiners.
Totally. In this Wealth War & gold-fiat-crypto battlespace, we definitely need Alpha-Bulls/Shills & Mega-Bears/Clowns to move/whip these digital assets to dizzying heights & terrible chasms so that the best of us can sell more during the bubble & buy more during the bloodbath. 😂
This was great. Too bad it got cut short.
Don’t invite Schiff... he’ll talk for 45 minutes without taking a breath.
The professor provided an excellent perspective which seemed to have been lost on the other two guests. Rule number one when speculating - don't get caught up in a certainty trap.
Totally. He used the word “Speculation” as both a defensive & offensive word. Whatever the case in this Wealth War & gold-fiat-crypto battlespace, we definitely need Alpha-Bulls/Shills & Mega-Bears/Clowns to move/whip these digital assets to dizzying heights & terrible chasms so that the best of us can sell more during the bubble & buy more during the bloodbath. 😂
Really? I thought he lost his argument miserably
Looks like that you don’t get rule number zero: everything in your life is speculating. 😀
@@rufanuf1 There is little room for actual arguments. They are fighting over words to which they do not share common definitions. They are literally talking pass each other.
@@binshuful Who are you talking to? The professor? He's not here anymore.
This is a healthy discussion, the old school with the new. Good points on all sides.
BTC promoters are talking absolute nonsense
Ironically to your comment, Hanke is the one on the new-school side. Bitcoin maxis are just too blind to understand that.
I’m a baby boomer and love the idea of crypto since it keeps you out of the government and financial system as it is decentralized. The total global wealth which is estimated at 400 trillion and is overwhelmingly held by the baby boomers not the millennials who lean more towards digital assets. They make up only 1 trillion. How do we convince the baby boomers who are more inclined towards the stock market and precious metals to shift part of their wealth towards digital assets. They are prevalently old school and like to feel their assets like gold and silver. Something that flowing electrons can’t offer.
Endless money printing and inevitable boom bust cycle enduced by the Fed will take care of the Boomers. I see fixed income Boomers getting devalued and having to re-enter the work force. The Boomers are being redistributed right now. Time will take care of the Boomers ammassed wealth, and that's by design. Another major market pullback is gonna wipe out so much Boomer wealth it isn't funny. They're all extended seeking yield. Again, that's by design.
@@OverclockedT wrong, he’s the old school saying it doesn’t have fundamental value. Saifedean Ammous is legit af. What’s the fundamentals of artwork lol? So it has no value and going to zero? Dumb stance imo.
One of the best and proper structured discussions on Bitcoin
Thank you so much for such great content
Best video in a long time, please release part 2. I can't believe discussion is over
Part 2: th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
I bought an ounce of weed for 25 bitcoins in 2012. That’s it folks. That’s your use case.
Now you use XMR eh ahaha
I hope it wasn't skunk!
1 BTC+ per gram. I thought I paid a lot in college, geez....
Awesome conversation. More of these debates needed David.
Bitcoin's price is basically a metric of how little confidence people have in the money-printing financial system under MMT. When the price goes up it's not that the asset is more valuable than before, rather that the people lose confidence in USD and stock market constantly pumped up by the Fed.
Exactly, buying Bitcoin is shorting fiat, because holding fiat long term is a guaranted loss
BRO AMAZING EXPLANATION LOL. LITERALLY 100% ACCURATE. MADE MY DAY IN ALL CAPS LOL.
But technically, any value above the cost to mine btc is speculative because we have to basically assume a continued loss of confidence in USD and other fiat in general for btc to gain in price (although adoption, btc inflows/outflows from exchanges and overall circulation pretty much comes down to supply and demand. And knowing that all fiat currencies in history have all gone to LITERALLY FUCKING ZERO, you can make a pretty safe bet that putting in any amount of fiat into btc rn is a good long term investment, it decoupled from the USD the day btc paired with USD, it was game over already hahaha.
People are holdong to get rich not to scape anything... And bitcoin is a fiat currency as well which means its not backed by anything... Bitcoiners think fiat is only government money but its not fiat is paper money in this case there is not even paper
Among a small group of people who are invested in the pyramid scheme.
Can't wait for part 2
Part 2 is out! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
You will own nothing and be happy. - Klaus Schwab
You will own Deez nuts and you will be happy.
Absolutely. Perhaps this is why people like Gautama gave up power & riches to seek truth, knowledge & enlightenment to become Buddha. 🙏
@@user-DongJ How will we be happy by having nothing? Will they pump us full of feel good drugs?
@@stanwilson7040 - Good question. As I've not gain full enlightenment yet, u have to ask Buddha that question yourself. 😊
@@stanwilson7040 The Leftist mind will always have a vision of a different world that you and I will have no say in, but that the Leftist is "very very very very sure" we will be 100% happy with.
Looking forward to part 2 ..
Perfect!!! We need more discussions like this. Thank you
Health science professor here. In my 25 year experience in science academia, I have found older professors out of touch and not able to adjust their thinking for the times. I wonder if the same holds true here.
Ya think?? He needs to retire, tell kids to get off his lawn, and hand a werther's candy off his coffee table to his grandchildren...
LOL
He's an old dinosaur
Neuroplasticity have anything to do with it you think?
The funny thing is, if anyone was to know it would be them themselves, being scientists and all
waiting for part 2, bring it soon please
Part 2 is out! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
“Great international currencies” have all turned to shit eventually.
Maybe, but not precious metals, because they have intrinsic value. The intrinsic value of a digital illusion of wealth is zero, from the start.
Well, some great international currencies are literally gold.
Also, a country doesn’t usually have two different competing currencies in the same country, but Bitcoin can have many. If one ever catches traction, then goodbye Bitcoin.
@@LeinweberChristopher Every currency competes with the other, regardless of each currency being natively used in a specific country or region.
@@LeinweberChristopher good luck with your theory! Bitcoin is a monetary network protocol! Bitcoin is more like our internet IP protocol, the longer bitcoin exist the stronger it will be.😂😂😂
Not a fair fight. Peter Schiff is missing.
Totally 2 vs 2 part 2 they'll bring him over and ohhhhh maaan then the boat will get rocked lol
Schiff *snort* is he in jail yet for money laundering?
@@conduit242 ???
@@LastTimer457 Use Google to find old news like this. It was literally on 60 Minutes ffs 🤦♂️
2V2 Is right but the old fart didn't need Peter
Great discussion. the professor raised valid points that weren’t sufficiently answered. Needs another episode
Totally. He used the word “Speculation” as both a defensive & offensive word. Whatever the case in this Wealth War & gold-fiat-crypto battlespace, we definitely need Alpha-Bulls/Shills & Mega-Bears/Clowns to move/whip these digital assets to dizzying heights & terrible chasms so that the best of us can sell more during the bubble & buy more during the bloodbath. 😂
Duke Silver he kept saying there is so much FIAT money in Bitcoin. That’s the issue, Bitcoin is backed by FIAT (money), which is collapsing. If FIAT collapses, BTC has nothing to back it. So BTC = 0.
@@OttawaInHD Nice one brother.
hence why it was part 1 of 2 episodes
Exactly that they weren't thoroughly answered at all the btc narrative as counter argument doesn't provide evidence to his point for sure
More of these debates please
We need more debates like this🔥🔥🔥🔥
I respect prof. Hanke. However, I always thought that value is not an intrinsic property of a non-production asset, but depends on how market perceives its worth. Prof Hanke makes an argument that money needs to be controlled by government. But, if we look back into history, dilution of money by the state could be blamed as the reason for decline of nation states. If we look into the evolution of money "convenience" played an important part - big rocks, metal coins, bills, credit card. Bitcoin could not have same 5000 years history because we did not have internet before 1980s. If all of our affairs are moving to internet, money can too. In a nascent form, money is a ledger where transactions are recorded. Modern currency is "legal tender for all debts". In the history of money, no money gets the job done as well as bitcoin does. There is no single fraudulent transaction out of almost a trillion transactions recorded in its ledger since inception. This is pretty remarkable feat in my opinion. Conviction is more dangerous enemy of truth that lie (F.N.), therefore we need to evaluate new technology with open mindedness, as we have always done as humans or else we wouldn't have come this far, and not try to fit it into historical model.
Well said! Kitco should interview you so that more people can look at it from your point of view.
how do you check fraud? the lady said the ledger is free for anyone to see and check? who is gonna do that though? average person doesn't care
@@clearsky1 more people? They already do otherwise bitcoin would. Still be $2
@@mariai9549 The miners are doing that
One government decree and it will go down to fundamental value, which is zero.
That lady is crazy in love with bitcoin.. she's got the laser eyes lol, can't trust that advice :)
She speaks a script. Her position depends on BTC.
Again she's mentioning her subjective point of view about it and not really providing a concrete answer as to why it is a token that would provide real solutions to real world problems she spews over and over again the narrative that is logical but not necessarily true...like dr. Hanke said it is still in a speculative phase, the narrative needs to get further consolidation from significant catalysts confirming that it has a significant utility value to it meaning it solves real life problems with real solutions
When SOMEBODY Sells something, don’t trust their advice on that thing.
She quit Goldman Sachs to start a Bitcoin firm. Better listen to her.
@@issenvan1050 Especially when they are selling a false narrative and fake news.
That abrupt ending leaves us wanting more, congratulations Kitco!
Yeah I want to see the whole thing!!
@@thanks4that261 I think some one walked out
Part 2 is out! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for setting up this debate.
Can you post the rest of the interviews...it was just getting good!
Part 2 is out ! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
Silver is needed to build the computers that mine bitcoin
The professor was clearly NOT desperate like the other two to justify why btc is important and a currency.
Yes, its like they were talking it up because they had so much on the line. You get emotional and repeat things when money is on the line
I completely agree with the two who support Bitcoin. It's hard to disagree that it will be a global currency on the future. I am long Bitcoin but diversified over other assets also. Bitcoin completely abolishing them all.
@@LeinweberChristopher yes they talking about bitcoin because they use it. That means they know bitcoin will make other assets obsolete!😂😂😂
The first girl said nothing except bitcoin is special because it's sooo special.
@@jamesleonard6890 It is a prototype proof of concept that is incredibly inefficient sucking back more power than most countries. It will not survive in its current form. It's nothing but a toy right now. Betting on bitcoin long term is like betting on horse drawn carriage at the birth of the automobile. It's like investing in black and white TV. It's history, not future.
Informative as always
As always great questions host!
there could only be 6999999999 people holding bitcoin as i will never buy it.
Have fun bro.
Have fun staying poor.
@@Brian-vk1hm yes I prefer to stay poor rather than convincing an entire generation to gamble on something that has fundamental value of ZERO
@@indianbigbull3834 What's the "fundamental value" of hope, freedom, time, life? So like I said, HFSP.
It's strange that a lot of boomers just can't wrap their head around why this is the best asset in the history of humanity.
At this point I don’t think you can claim Bitcoin has historic value given its relatively short history which has been very volatile. It may prove itself as a store of value but so far only a relatively small number of hands have bought into that idea.The other issue is Bitcoin as a form of exchange. You can’t have a viable means of exchange that experiences significant changes in value from day to day and week to week. Based on the information I could find there are only about 68 million Bitcoin wallets. It’s another reason I don’t consider it a currency. There are going to have to be a lot more wallets created before it can be considered a currency.
The BTC bubble boys didn't understand the difference between currency and asset. Good assets don't have the risk of collapsing into nothing and it is a major problem that fools believe crypto "currencies" are actual currencies. Its only historical context is as a barter for a speculative asset for something with fundamental value. It can't work in the long run and therefore anyone that understands it knows that it WILL eventually collapse.
Who said Bitcoin has historical value?
@@BooksNGuns The young lady said Bitcoin was the best store of value in human history. She is attempting to assign value to Bitcoin in the context of history. I think it is FAR too early to make claims about Bitcoin from a historical perspective. Give it another 20 or 30 years and we can then begin talking about Bitcoin in an historical context as a store of value. If Bitcoin survives over that time period against rival cryptos that develop over the next generation, if the value stabilizes and is held by hundreds of millions or billions of people we can then talk about it as currency.
68m is maybe enough, 3m more than people in the UK for instance, but more would be better for long term future of BTC, something like 1bn perhaps.
@@pmh1nic That's the point. it's still untested. It needs to be tested over a lifetime. Or a working lifetime, like a pension plan, to see if you get to redeem your BTC out at the end or if you get 0 because you forgot your phrase or password, lost your memory stick, your storage device crashed, the exchange went down, you got hacked, etc., etc.
Great discussion! As always, thanks David and thanks Kitco for great content. More of this please. Contrarian views makes great vids!
Awesome content. More debates like these please! Please have the author of the bitcoin standard back on again!
This was beautiful!
Yup!! Old Capital lists that can’t let go. The future is ours he’s almost gone. I think I saw part of him blow away on that video
@@notsteve1475 yep, bitcoin is the ultimate fiat
Beat them at their own game
You guys are truly missing the point. Enjoy the show, it's not a real competition.
Could not care less of btc is a good currency or not. IS IT A STORE OF VALUE?
hard to deny that btc is on track to become one of the most pristine asset in a digital interconnected world.
It's a pyramid scheme bro.
@@peaceandfreedomeconomics8984 All human society is structured as a pyramid scheme due to scarcity unless you want to live in a Marxist world. Free market capitalism allows for wealth to be redistributed to make the bottom of the pyramid wider allowing more people to climb out of poverty and is the fairest system. At least with bitcoin you dont have central bankers using their magic money tree to distort and intervene in markets.
Anyone who thinks bitcoin is going to zero just doesn’t get it and is not an “expert” but is completely ignorant of Bitcoin.
This is pure gold
Pure gold lol but you people worship the chip haha
or is it pure bitcoin?
Its simple. BTC is worth whatever you're willing to spend on it minus the selloffs lol.
Like all assets 🙄
"bitcoin hasn't been around long enougth to say anything about its store of value, so that assertion is kinda ridiculous".
Do we need to live 2500 years to find out?
Love this channel. So smart. All the guests were good.
The guy his 'Austrian' theory of value is incorrect: Value is indeed subjective BUT one needs utility (which BTC lacks) and scarcity (which BTC also lacks) to have value. It lacks utility, being able to give it to someone else is not utility. Simple example: a banana has value not because i can give it to you but because i can eat it. The value of the banana is subjective in that a hungry individual attributes more value to a banana than an individual that has just eaten. BTC also lacks scarcity, many BTC proponents argue that there is a limited amount of bitcoin, this is not true. BTC is a human creation and can be recreated an infinite amount of time (altcoins). Just having another name or telling people BTC was first so therefore it has more value makes no sense, but as long as there are greater fools that buy the price can go up. As a student of Austrian economics I felt like I had to correct the 'Austrian economic' guy....
Explain how the alt coins are the same as the original. I thought the inherent problem with BTC as a currency is that it is capped at 21 million and therefore deflationary.
This is exactly correct. Very well put. Great job.
@@bobbyt9431 That cap can be raised.
I still get confused by this... you eat the banana and it loses its value. Gold has no more value other than someone may like to look at it when it’s formed as jewelry. Others may prefer tulips to gold because they not only look good, but attract insects and microorganisms that benefit the garden. In terms of objective utility, you could argue that tulips (which also propagate and replace themselves) have the highest utility.
BTC is ultimately scarce, more so than gold, because there is a known, quantified amount that can, and ever will be, mined. Unlike gold whose scarcity we can only speculate and whose value immediately drops when a new vein is found.
Crypto is being accepted increasingly as barter and goods can be purchased, adding to its utility. The risk I see is that governments linked to central banks can limit this utility at will, should it begin to erode or destabilize fiat... the other arguments I don’t understand ....
@@pauls064 of course you don’t understand. That’s why you buy Bitcoin.
i'd like to hear hong fang more, can tell she knows wtf she's talking about, and i'd like to know wtf i'm talking about one day too
More of these kinds of interviews, please.
oh, god... I can't watch. This is gonna be, like, Elder Abuse
LOL
Ageist.
Oh god...I can't watch. This is gonna be like child abuse.
Yup, I was correct, the young people got schooled.
David, you did brilliant job as moderator. The professor beat them hollow 🤩
Dollar for dollar who's hollow is the professor!!!
No he didn't sorry...
@@estepans People tend to get impressed with academic talk!!!
Ok Hanke.
The professor makes very interesting points.
Great interviews!
Kirkland Lake Gold Ltd
Rule of Thump: Rich men over 70 don’t like Bitcoin.
That's pretty much it, because it is invading their little Gold stack and they're scared
100% true
Although I'm one of the 7B people who bought in BTC (I put $100 in one BTC ETF), I do not think it has any fundamental value. It can be used for nothing other than transfer fiat money anonymously.
Only a few million people have BTC and 40% are owned by about 2,000 people. Your entire worth in BTC hinges on a few billionaires not selling them.
@@bobbyt9431 Thank you for the correction! I think I should have heard M but typed B.
It’s not anonymous. It’s a public ledger. You can see all transactions and where the coins go. Governments already know how to track people. That’s bitcoin is useless as a transfer of payment platform for anti government crowds
An EMP goes off and all your electronic records are erased. Where's your bitcoin?
There are nodes all around the world for the blockchain. You’d need the entire world to be emp’d for all the records to be erased...
And 30% of miners are using solar power
Yeah you'd need a Carrington Event, which only occur every few hundred years and could happen at any time...
@@bobbyt9431 what’s next the zombie apocalypse?
@@bobbyt9431 true, but if that happened and all electronics and their backups were knocked out, i think wed have far more problems to fix than just financials....
This is not the ultimate debate with out Peter Schiff
Peter is a debating machne.....trouble is one doesn't know if he's right or just being Peter....and i'm a goldbug.
Agreed, but the professor did a good job.
Peters arguments are lame and he doesn’t listen he just keeps repeating the same nonsense. Plus, he admits to owning bitcoin. He’s hedging his bets and knows bitcoin could win.
@@Brian-vk1hm did Peter Schiff hurt your feelings because you are playing in video game land?
@@Brian-vk1hm Peter doesn’t own Bitcoin, he said it’s going to zero and thats why he doesn’t buy it.
The fundamental value of Bitcoin is zero. I agree with Prof Hanke
Notice how its always the old folks who cant grasp how technology works? Steve Hanke will eat crow once BTC hits 10 trillion market cap.
Thanks for the review
+1
Part 2!!!
Part 2 is out ! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
David ....That debate was just warming up.
Part 2 is out: th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
Awesome David, thank you 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
She had been waiting for this debate since the day she bought her first satoshi :) !!
Steve is right on, it is speculative! Bottom line. I can't understand why this debate keeps going, you own physical it may not go up as much, however you hold it. THis is imaginary hodle. Stop comparing bitcoin to gold or silver, as it has nothing to do with gold and silver.
“Forget the networking thing” that’s about all I needed to hear lol
Appreciate Kitco for bringing up this interesting discussion. Okcoin lady says Bitcoin is a great store of value and Prof. Hanke insists that Bitcoin is not a currency. Then we can call Bitcoin crypto asset, and it is your call whether it is speculative or stable one.
"I can design a superior crypto"
- both guests laugh. Myself as well.
You can thank farts like this for giving you time to accumulate :)
Yes! This was great. When PT. 2?
Bring more at opposite views
I have been watching some videos and I was thinking about investing, but still don't know where to start from.
I know a trader that can help
His name is Mr Matthew dale
Send a message
+1= "9" 0= "8" =2 ="2" =4 ="2"= 4= "2" =1
1:10 LMAO that look after the price target
Oldie got mad😂😂😂$100k...it will be $200k
Jajajajaj
Omg thank you. Can you please have only the professor??
He has some other interviews, not just Kitco.
Nice discussion
Wow, did Steve Hanke just shot himself in the foot with his list of 5 attributes of great currencies? He actually gave a masterclass on Bitcoin’s untapped potential.
Guy in middle was class act
Other 2 looked silly
Bitcoin was touted as a currency from the beginning. Someone once bought a pizza. Since then, it's widely accepted as being a failure as a currency, yet it has a high speculative price tag. I'm just glad all these people keep speculating as I keep buying real assets cheaper than they should be.
Sun burps, massive EMP, all electricity dies on the planet and humanity reverts back to 1820's... Rather have gold thanks.
If that's the case then I'd rather have a field to grow food or other means of basic survival
An EMP would only affect the side of the earth facing the sun....
@@jeffhebard1516 Not sure who told you that, but that is not how it works. Earths Magnetic field is weakest at it's north and south poles and that is where the induced current enters and spreads. Think of the well known Northern Lights, the Electromagnetic radiation can be observed on both sides of the globe... only visible on the night side of the earth but the field can be measured on the sun facing side but not visible to the naked eye.
@@matthiku You would still want to have items to trade. Mankind has used various items for trade since the dawn of time. Pretend you have cows and you really want my eggs... but I am allergic to dairy and I don't want a cow to slaughter... so we have to find some means of trade. Sea shells? Shiny Rocks? Usually it is something rare and represents time to recover or create (like art) but at one point Tulips and "Talley Sticks" were "money" used for trade.
Steve Henke said it proper , “ I don’t need a lesson in speculation son , I’ve spent a lifetime trading & investing in currency and commodities.”
Debates are always testing ones calmness and emotional grounding . Good talk all n all ..
When will the grocery store start accepting bitcoin?
Same time as gold 😂😂
@@devo9167 I don't have any gold 😅 but I have some bitcoin. Bitcoin claims itself as a currency so. . .
never
Great discussion. As a crypto owner, I can see all sides of the argument. Looking forward to the next part!
Totally. In this Wealth War & gold-fiat-crypto battlespace, we definitely need Alpha-Bulls/Shills & Mega-Bears/Clowns to move/whip these digital assets to dizzying heights & terrible chasms so that the best of us can sell more during the bubble & buy more during the bloodbath. 😂
Precious metals are the only entities that have a store of value. It takes energy, labor and exploration to get it out of the ground. There it is your store of value.
@@rogain662 same with bitcoin it takes energy to maintain the network, and humans skills to develop! 😂😂😂😂
@@bahmak2003 but i can turn my metal into solar panels and produce more energy, or batteries and store that energy for future use, i can't get that time and effort back or energy back that was produced, only way we can even make our money back after gathering it is to try sell it for more it cost to get it.
@@Realisticautism but I can buy more asic machine with bitcoin and mine more bitcoin!😂🤣😂🤣😂
Then I can buy loads of solar panels with bitcoin to power my bitcoin mining machines!😂😅🤣🤣
Thank you all for the video and conversation. I believe the argument for bitcoin or any digital currency is very small but has a very strong argument. We do need something, but It's too much about the tech side of it not so much anything else. That's the value. It's digital. We should wait until it settles and doesn't become so volitile first maybe. I couldn't write someone a receipt for something on paper for a digital currency transaction. It's pinned on the dollar. These rich guys buy a billion of whatever, with USD.
Let's have the same discussion now shall we!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That smiling Asian lady was very annoying. I like the old prof and his arguments and completely agree with him.
Yes, that "old prof" has cogent arguments at which the other two guests are basically flinging their verbal poop.
Even when there is news about BTC, they show a gold-like coin with a letter B on it.
It's a fraud. It isn't gold and will never replace gold.
with B as a $ logo.
Makes people feel like they're investing in something tangible & valuable, lol.
@@BWater-yq3jx It was a clever marketing ploy. But only the dumb ones fell for it. God bless them ,lol.
@@lamarravery4094 cant be that dumb if they made millions
@@garryallison5679 they can be very dumb in fact
Respect to Kitco for covering Bitcoin innovation even when it may threaten their business
Size of Bond Market means that such amount of money was exchanged to bonds, 1:1. The same with phisical gold, silver etc.
Bitcoin market cap is a current value by quantity, like stocks. the real amount of money put into bitcoin could be 100x less, so many bitcoins were bought for less than $10k, $1k.
Fang sounded like a used car salesman. The guy on the right side screen sounded angry. The guy in the middle just schooled them both, bigtime. Hahaha, that was fun to watch.
The senile old man?
It's not a currency, wasn't that the idea?
LOL. Used car salesman is exactly right! She is a second rate Bitcoin pumper who actually has a significant position in the industry.
Yeah, the guy in the middle is so smart. That's why bitcoin has soared 10 X in the past year. He's now defending his pride. Typical ego.
@@ElementFreedive what’s his point?😂😂😂
Is Pyrmid Coin 🤔worth 100k
Oops I mean is
Bit coin worth 100k in Imigination Dollars.
Call it Imiganay/Pyrmid coin??
Its in a class of its own....😂🤣😅
Hahaha nocoiner is salty! When bitcoin was below 100usd most of you are laughing when some say it could go 1k or 10k. Bitcoin is now over half of 100k, you think it can’t surpass that price?😂😂😂
Bitcoin needs NEW suckers to buy in or....COLLAPSE!!
Ask yourself, would you borrow in Bitcoin to take a 30 mortgage on your house? Imagine how much labor and effort it would require just 10 yrs from now if a Bitcoin was then worth the equivalent of 10 years of your life’s efforts...default city!!! A sound currency has to be able to keep up with expanding economies. As much as we all hate how fiat currencies are inflated away, they are done so in a mostly stable, predictable format that ultimately encourages borrowing and reinvestment of capital. It makes us all heavy consumers and high producers. The bond market for Btc just won’t materialize. It’s far to risky to lend as you’d never get your value repaid unless you charged very high interest. Fiat will always undercut btc rates. Think of fiat as a giant currency welfare system, where aggregate lenders are constantly donating to aggregate borrowers. In the end, it’s a tax that keeps this system of consumer capitalism that fuels our innovation and corresponding abundance.
Seems that the discussion become more interesting when it was stopped.
Shoulda had Peter Schiff in on the discussion!
Bitcoin is indeed a currency. . case in point. If I can exchange BC for goods and or services (which I can) then it is as valuable as beads or shells or fiat dollars. Period. Trust is all that matters.
If the emporer is wearing no clothes, and everyone says he is, should you trust there opinion.?
@@stevennussdorf7097 You won't have to, you'll be forced to regardless.
How about transaction fees? I have cash, Visa, debit card. Why should I switch to BTC, which is not a form of payment in most places?
@@stevennussdorf7097 it’s like if the authority said bitcoin is not a currency yet bitcoin is fungible like currency, portable like currency, and divisible like currency?😂😂😂😂
@@issenvan1050 hahaha you never stop asking stupid questions! Have you not heard of lightning network and bitcoin credit/debit card?
Three extremely high quality guests and a great host. Well done Kitco News; this was a fascinating discussion
If you hold BTC or ETH,
All his definitions for great currencies are from the past, a time when no one could fathom the Internet.
This is a new world where the Internet has changed everything.
And this is where the battle is.. Most people are caught up in the details. Personally, I think it’s the change from analogue to digital as a species that will prove or disprove crypto and blockchain
So I suppose most diamonds have a fundamental value of close to zero as well then. It doesn't pay cash flows and the utility is very limited too. Why are some diamonds $500k then?
Fools and their wealth will soon be parted. Diamonds are a fools best friend.
Great call Dennis!! 👍
They aren’t. There are big stocks of diamonds being held to keep the scarcity myth going.
They have limited utility? If you're giving them away, I'd gladly put them to use.
The value of diamonds is much lower than precious metals. The speculative value of diamonds got pumped up. But lab-made diamonds are just as good or better than natural diamonds now. That speculative value will crash down to the fundamental value sooner than we think.
One of these guys are doing their old thing, now it time to play our game. And let’s see who’s not the same!!
We'll see alright. When the markets crash gold will still be gold. Bitcoin will be erased data.
bitcoin isn't a currency, bitcoin is money.
Man...where is part 2..?
Part 2 is here! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html
Tulips were a store of value too....consensus, game theory , the works.....
Atleast they looked and smelt good.
@@abu3leish not a good store of value longer time, a tulip bulb could rot or infected by bacteria or viruses.😂😂😂😂
You're not very smart are you?
Keep tellin' yourself that.
Professor's only argument is "Bitcoin is new, gold is old, and nothing will ever change"
so why hasnt bitcoin hit its inevitable 100k target yet? nobody is expecting gold to double in value for no reason. gold just maintains spending power, the price of gold may go sky if theres a currency crisis, but chances are it wont buy you much more than it will now. nobody buying gold is trying to get rich from it, thats why its a store of vale. bitcoin speculators buy it because they believe it will make them rich, not because they want to preserve wealth. its not different than tulip mania.
I just realized. When gold price is determined by futures contracts why is it called spot price of gold. You cant short spot price. You can short sell only with leverage.
WTH part 2 ,has to come David
Part 2 is out now! th-cam.com/video/nvYOBVT5TIA/w-d-xo.html