Season 18 is so underrated. State of decay, Warriors gate, Keeper of Traken and Logopolis is just a streak of good episodes. Full circle and Meglos are fine stories as well. Leisure hive I’m less interested in. The directing is pretty ambitious in season 18 as well.
Glad to see Billy back & delighted you guys have reviewed this story 🙂 it was one of the last classic series stories I watched having never got the VHS release back in 1992. Hope you guys do (The Awakening) aswell if Frontios is the next review you'll be doing ??? Love that story 🔴🟠🟡🟢🔵🟣🟤
Wow this is crazy, I remember watching your Doctor Who action figure adventure videos when i was 10 or 11 years old and even still remembered your name! I used to spend hours watching your stuff and it has made my heart so happy that you’re still doing Who related videos. I am now going to binge your content now i’ve found you again :) thank you for everything!
Watch the episode again... Adric inspects the bicycle curiously. You can see him walking the bike in the background as the Doctor is escorted to the car, and then he has placed the bike on top of him and yells for help. He doesn't ride it... tho did perhaps get the concept of what it was for. He is a genius after all. :)
I only noticed very recently, the regeneration scene shown in the pretitles of castrovalva, as well as being rescored, has Adrics line of "doctor!" And Nyssas "he was the doctor all the time" possibly also Tegans "the watcher" all redubbed. If you watch both versions of the scene back to back then you can hear the way they say those lines sound different, adric is softened and Nyssa sounds more like the revelation of the watcher was expected. So that's interesting. I think tom had already stolen the boots after s17, I don't think they were meant to be in the costume ever but he didn't like the short trousers and long socks so just started wearing the boots again, then took them with him when he left.
June Hudson's original design sketches has long Argyle socks and shoes. The Doctor's boots 'regenerating' into shoes was commented at the time in DWM and, if memory serves, the story was Baker had been wearing "his own boots" (at which point they became his may be debatable ;-) ) so the boots had not been available in wardrobe when they shot Castrovalva and Davison wore shoes instead. Baker definitely wore the waistcoat in S18 and has it on in a publicity still on the Pharos Project set with Sutton and Fielding and another screen capture of him in the console room with Waterhouse. I do wonder if he sometimes tried to remove a few layers in studio because shirt, waistcoat, safari jacket, great coat and scarf must have been unbearable. No wonder he looked glum. Much as I love the look, I think S18 is when the Doctor switched from having an 'outfit' to having a 'costume', something which stays right up until the end of Colin Baker. (McCoy is more borderline, mostly regular clothing but tipping into costume with the pullover and brolly)
@@TheWillHadcroft that was the reason I was watching the two together like that, I'd read that the score was different, but it sounded similar enough that any time I watched logopolis, then castrovalva the day after, enough time had passed that I couldn't tell the difference. So I intentionally watched both scenes together to hear the difference in music better, only to discover all the redubbed lines in there too
Utterly loved this discussion, but then I utterly love Logopolis and Season 18 generally. I was ten when it first aired, and on its repeat that autumn as part of BBC Two's The Five Faces of Doctor Who, I recorded the soundtrack off-air onto cassette tapes, and enjoyed it as an audio. Now I'm 52 and still in awe of the mood and tone of the piece. I have remained permanently affected by it.
Nyssa is one of the most underrated companion concepts in Doctor Who. She is essentially an intelligent princess from a technology-advanced society that has no concept of violence or warfare. But she’s the last of her kind, as the Master destroyed her planet and is walking around in the body of her murdered father.
Logopolis was the very first Doctor Who I purchased (on VHS, actually) and I loved it. I need to watch it again - some aspects of it seem to have passed my by when I watched my video all those years ago! Taking the things you raised into account make me think I'll love it more!
Matt, where on earth did you read about that story of the River Thames and the Watcher? It's hilarious, but can't find it anywhere. Certainly not relating to Moffat
What was the final scene that Tom recorded? I saw him say somewhere - "... And don't ask what the final scene was that was filmed"... So of course - now I want to know! I'm guessing it wasn't the regeneration...?
It feels a fitting end for Four, when you compare it to Five. Five is the Doctor that failed, that could save only one meagre person, in Peri… And Four *SAVES THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE*: it’s load, it’s bombastic, it’s boggle-eyed, just as it should be.
The Doctor saves the life of a woman he's literally just met... Sacrifices his life for her... and that's somehow ignoble? Yes - it's a complete contrast to Logopolis - just a petty local war on drugs basically, which the Doctor inadvertently gets Peri involved with, and then does everything he can to get her out, even at the cost of his own life. Hell, give this man a medal. Don't crucify him...
@@Jamestopboy Well yes sure you can shoe-horn in the audios... but who listens to that crap? It wasn't the intention of the production team at the time for Peri to have been with the Doctor for any length of time at all. All else is nonsense.
What happens to the tardis and the chameleon circuit after logopolis? He's only there to.. turn his police box into a more accurate police box? Someone explain
I think the idea is he measures the real police box to "overlay the dimensions on the TARDIS", thus shaking it free of the police box form. Or something.
11:03 I agree with Billy I don’t like what Big Finish has done with the Boxset cover. Really hate the Watermark look. Looks rubbish. Also I would love a Frontios review. Would like to hear what you guys think about the TARDIS Exploding.
Logopolis is a brilliant last story that’s just a tad all over the shop, plot bitty. That ominously funereal feel ramped up from episode one, was eye-poppingly gripping, I remember being completely glued to the set. I wish JNT could have trusted Tom to carry this on his own more a bit more, Adic’s well, ‘Adric’ and we’re kinda used to his bobbing aimlessly about, then there’s The Master, then there’s Tegan and then there’s Nyssa. The Master plot-line is actually a superb twist but everything feels just too unnecessarily cluttered. Characters have to be introduced at least reasonably well, we need to get to know them, we recently know Nyssa, but all of a sudden she just seems to pop up out of nowhere. Although I love The concept of The Watcher (such a lovely creatively on point piece of Who), we even have another Doctor in the ever engulfing mix. As an adventure, I just felt I wanted it to stop, shake its head and get itself together a bit more. Thing is it’s Tom Bakers last story and at that time, watching it live as it were, was just so profoundly gut wrenching, I was literally heartbroken. Tom smiling as he’s dying so the kids watching don’t get too traumatised, a lovely acting touch. Saying that though, I wasn’t a kid (I was nineteen), and far too traumatised. A great review. Gx
I still think it's a degeneration which stops at tenant and he needs the metacrisis energy in Donna....and then maybe he's got 24hrs or so until he regenerates.... or that's how i'd do it.. This allows Donna to remember, and not die too....
Season 18 is so underrated. State of decay, Warriors gate, Keeper of Traken and Logopolis is just a streak of good episodes. Full circle and Meglos are fine stories as well. Leisure hive I’m less interested in. The directing is pretty ambitious in season 18 as well.
Glad to see Billy back & delighted you guys have reviewed this story 🙂 it was one of the last classic series stories I watched having never got the VHS release back in 1992. Hope you guys do (The Awakening) aswell if Frontios is the next review you'll be doing ??? Love that story 🔴🟠🟡🟢🔵🟣🟤
Wow this is crazy, I remember watching your Doctor Who action figure adventure videos when i was 10 or 11 years old and even still remembered your name! I used to spend hours watching your stuff and it has made my heart so happy that you’re still doing Who related videos. I am now going to binge your content now i’ve found you again :) thank you for everything!
‘Two Lesbians and a Regeneration’ is the canon title for the Centenary, since they refuse to reveal a title
9:50 that paul mcgann impression had me in stitches
Johnny looks a bit different this week!
41:56 that whole concept was actually done in a recent War Master episode which was seriously nasty, and also really quite good!
Watch the episode again...
Adric inspects the bicycle curiously. You can see him walking the bike in the background as the Doctor is escorted to the car, and then he has placed the bike on top of him and yells for help.
He doesn't ride it... tho did perhaps get the concept of what it was for. He is a genius after all. :)
I only noticed very recently, the regeneration scene shown in the pretitles of castrovalva, as well as being rescored, has Adrics line of "doctor!" And Nyssas "he was the doctor all the time" possibly also Tegans "the watcher" all redubbed. If you watch both versions of the scene back to back then you can hear the way they say those lines sound different, adric is softened and Nyssa sounds more like the revelation of the watcher was expected. So that's interesting.
I think tom had already stolen the boots after s17, I don't think they were meant to be in the costume ever but he didn't like the short trousers and long socks so just started wearing the boots again, then took them with him when he left.
June Hudson's original design sketches has long Argyle socks and shoes. The Doctor's boots 'regenerating' into shoes was commented at the time in DWM and, if memory serves, the story was Baker had been wearing "his own boots" (at which point they became his may be debatable ;-) ) so the boots had not been available in wardrobe when they shot Castrovalva and Davison wore shoes instead.
Baker definitely wore the waistcoat in S18 and has it on in a publicity still on the Pharos Project set with Sutton and Fielding and another screen capture of him in the console room with Waterhouse. I do wonder if he sometimes tried to remove a few layers in studio because shirt, waistcoat, safari jacket, great coat and scarf must have been unbearable. No wonder he looked glum.
Much as I love the look, I think S18 is when the Doctor switched from having an 'outfit' to having a 'costume', something which stays right up until the end of Colin Baker. (McCoy is more borderline, mostly regular clothing but tipping into costume with the pullover and brolly)
And Paddy Kingland's score is slightly different too, as it leads into the opening titles.
@@TheWillHadcroft that was the reason I was watching the two together like that, I'd read that the score was different, but it sounded similar enough that any time I watched logopolis, then castrovalva the day after, enough time had passed that I couldn't tell the difference. So I intentionally watched both scenes together to hear the difference in music better, only to discover all the redubbed lines in there too
Utterly loved this discussion, but then I utterly love Logopolis and Season 18 generally. I was ten when it first aired, and on its repeat that autumn as part of BBC Two's The Five Faces of Doctor Who, I recorded the soundtrack off-air onto cassette tapes, and enjoyed it as an audio. Now I'm 52 and still in awe of the mood and tone of the piece. I have remained permanently affected by it.
Nyssa is one of the most underrated companion concepts in Doctor Who.
She is essentially an intelligent princess from a technology-advanced society that has no concept of violence or warfare. But she’s the last of her kind, as the Master destroyed her planet and is walking around in the body of her murdered father.
Imagine if this tenth Doctor's final line is "I'm ready".
Matts impressions are on point this episode
Great to see billy back.
Logopolis was the very first Doctor Who I purchased (on VHS, actually) and I loved it. I need to watch it again - some aspects of it seem to have passed my by when I watched my video all those years ago! Taking the things you raised into account make me think I'll love it more!
Love your impressions Billy. Thought we might of seen your new Cyberleader on set matt. Here's hoping McGann and Peter will be in the 60th.
Matt, where on earth did you read about that story of the River Thames and the Watcher?
It's hilarious, but can't find it anywhere. Certainly not relating to Moffat
What was the final scene that Tom recorded? I saw him say somewhere - "... And don't ask what the final scene was that was filmed"... So of course - now I want to know! I'm guessing it wasn't the regeneration...?
It feels a fitting end for Four, when you compare it to Five.
Five is the Doctor that failed, that could save only one meagre person, in Peri…
And Four *SAVES THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE*: it’s load, it’s bombastic, it’s boggle-eyed, just as it should be.
The Doctor saves the life of a woman he's literally just met... Sacrifices his life for her... and that's somehow ignoble? Yes - it's a complete contrast to Logopolis - just a petty local war on drugs basically, which the Doctor inadvertently gets Peri involved with, and then does everything he can to get her out, even at the cost of his own life. Hell, give this man a medal. Don't crucify him...
@@johnlarro6872 according to audio dramas it’s been AGES and a whole companion has come and gone in that gap!
@@Jamestopboy Well yes sure you can shoe-horn in the audios... but who listens to that crap? It wasn't the intention of the production team at the time for Peri to have been with the Doctor for any length of time at all. All else is nonsense.
This video inspired me to start season 18 for the first time and I really can't understand why everyone doesn't love leisure hive
Welcome back Billy!
What happens to the tardis and the chameleon circuit after logopolis? He's only there to.. turn his police box into a more accurate police box? Someone explain
I think the idea is he measures the real police box to "overlay the dimensions on the TARDIS", thus shaking it free of the police box form. Or something.
They probably didn't use Sutekh in the callback scene because he never addresses The Doctor by name, only as "Time Lord."
11:03 I agree with Billy I don’t like what Big Finish has done with the Boxset cover. Really hate the Watermark look. Looks rubbish.
Also I would love a Frontios review. Would like to hear what you guys think about the TARDIS Exploding.
I agree, the Watermark design for the big finish boxsets need to be more scarce.
Who are you and what have you done with Johnny?
Logopolis is a brilliant last story that’s just a tad all over the shop, plot bitty. That ominously funereal feel ramped up from episode one, was eye-poppingly gripping, I remember being completely glued to the set. I wish JNT could have trusted Tom to carry this on his own more a bit more, Adic’s well, ‘Adric’ and we’re kinda used to his bobbing aimlessly about, then there’s The Master, then there’s Tegan and then there’s Nyssa. The Master plot-line is actually a superb twist but everything feels just too unnecessarily cluttered. Characters have to be introduced at least reasonably well, we need to get to know them, we recently know Nyssa, but all of a sudden she just seems to pop up out of nowhere. Although I love The concept of The Watcher (such a lovely creatively on point piece of Who), we even have another Doctor in the ever engulfing mix. As an adventure, I just felt I wanted it to stop, shake its head and get itself together a bit more. Thing is it’s Tom Bakers last story and at that time, watching it live as it were, was just so profoundly gut wrenching, I was literally heartbroken. Tom smiling as he’s dying so the kids watching don’t get too traumatised, a lovely acting touch. Saying that though, I wasn’t a kid (I was nineteen), and far too traumatised. A great review. Gx
The Rocky movies aren’t what I’d call lowbrow, especially the early ones. Or Creed.
What's up my science fiction brit boys!
Time Fracture is closing tomorrow (5th June)
I still think it's a degeneration which stops at tenant and he needs the metacrisis energy in Donna....and then maybe he's got 24hrs or so until he regenerates.... or that's how i'd do it..
This allows Donna to remember, and not die too....
😂😂😂😂