I have been running one of these heaters for over 2 years on UK standard low sulphur kerosene. It runs 10 hours a day 5 days a week. Over 5000 hours now. No pump problems at all. Just serviced it. Very clean indeed. Even the glow plug is mint.
Here in Canada, kerosene is added to road diesel in ever increasing amounts as weather gets colder. In midwinter it is more than half. I have hauled it and tank farms make no distinction between it, stove oil, or jet fuel. You can buy little 10l jugs of possibly purer kero at gas stations and hardware stores at a much higher price. A HUGE thank you for making me much more knowledgeable than the TWO professionals that tried and failed to repair the heater on my heavy freightliner cascadia a couple winters ago. I now realize that starting the truck shut the heater off too abruptly and probably coked up the screen. This was a factory install. It was awesome when working and the little tic tic tic was much better than an idling diesel. Cheers, you are a hero!
Been watching the first few of your videos. Absolutely brilliant! You obviously have a wealth of knowledge and it is so kind of you to share it. I have what they euphemistically call an acquired brain injury but your detailed explanations allow me to understand exactly what is occurring. Once I have finished watching all your videos I intend buying one of the 5k units and putting it in our summerhouse (shed with windows😂) here in the U.K. once again thank you so much, you have helped countless people.
In the past when running kerosene or home heating oil as called here in Ireland I always add 2 litres of cooking oil to the keresen to lube the pump and haven't noticed any issues. Used this when running a 2.5 diesel engine. Love the videos really great information. Cheers John.
Great info, thanks. I have about 25 gallons of waste kerosene and was about to run it pure in my heater. Thanks for the warning. I will now add some lubricant to it, and fortunately have some atf i need to get rid of as well. Saved me a pump failure, many thanks.
So, based on this, pumps designed for petrol should use some sort of (teflon) seals instead of direct metal to metal contact. I have used petrol pumps that have been in service for 15 years and they seem no worse for wear. If the impulse flow amount is the same with kerosene (.02mL) then these could be successfully used with a diesel heater...?
Thank you John, I only just bought one of these 5kw heaters and only after watching many youtube videos on the subject. but Your videos are easily the best most profesional, informative, and detailed ones anywhere. Especially the ones on Exhausts and Fuel deliver etc. you saved us a world of problems and i am building everything you advised into mine Thank You
Thanks John for that detailed explanation. I camp in Alpine areas where we regularly have snow and sub-zero temperatures. Carbon build up from the diesel was so bad the diesel heaters would stop functioning. Pulling the heater out in such conditions was not fun. In fact, it is so off-putting a friend has binned the diesel heater for a far more expensive LPG Gas heater! We started hearing about using a kero/diesel mix last year and I think it slowed the build up, so your suggestion of a 50/50 mix will be tried this coming winter. I have also purchased another heater that is easier to take apart for cleaning the combustion chamber should the need arise. We suspect the local "alpine diesel" is using a heating oil additive rather than Kerosene, which works fine with the diesel 4WD but of course the service station attendants don't have any idea what is in it! I will therefore try to take as much 'normal' diesel with me for mixing.
Hi John, you do not state where you live but in the US and some European countries their commercial Kerosene has a very high sulphur content which provides lubrication. In such cases you could try a high kerro/diesel mix, like 80/20 or perhaps even 90/10. Spare non branded metering pumps can be bought on eBay now for around for around $15, so it is not big expense if you destroy one in your testing. LPG heaters are clean and simple but produce huge amounts of water vapour, causing condensation and mould. These little diesel heaters give you a nice dry heat. I would appreciate info on how things go. JMcK
You are such a godsend for providing this information. It helped me decide to use a diesel air heater in my shop. Thank for sharing this, from Henrico County Virginia
You Sir are a godsend!! Thank you so much for the wealth of information you share on your channel about these heaters. Mine shipped today so by the time it gets here I should have most of your videos watched!
Hi John... In video #4 .. the 5kw heater second from the last. May I be so bold as to ask the brand name on that heater. Hell of a fine job reviewing these heaters too, I might add. I’ve been looking at alternative means of heat here also for some time, and your videos are by far the most informative out their....! Great Job.. an Thanks again.
Hi Gauntlet, First…Pleased you found the videos helpful. Now your question…. None of the Chinese heaters I have purchased are branded, they are all generic. I purchase them off eBay, from a seller who has a local (Australian warehouse), a good rating, and has a return policy. Sorry I can't be more helpful…..Do you have a more detailed question? JMcK
great to know on the kerosense.i think currently in the Uk,if you buy it in 500 litres,red diesel is about £1 and C2 85p a litre(you dont need a license either). its worth getting a tank if its a long term hobby...campervaning/sailing etc. for me its my workshop. thanks for sharing the info John
Hi John, interesting and informative. In the UK Kerosene (28sec domestic heating oil) goes up and down a few cents depending on the time of year but averages 93 Australian cents per litre, while road diesel is more than twice that. :)
@@ifell3 i see that you are in the Uk, 28sec domestic heating oil is the cheapest and only option I use nowadays and have been running my heaters on it for years now without problem. The only difference between domestic heating oil (kerosene) and road diesel is the addition of a lubricant which is not necessary for domestic boilers or these heaters.
@@bobonmull Hi, I'm also in UK. Just bought one of these and had it running off some paraffin that had been sat in my shed for a few years that I originally got out of a pump at a fuel oil supplier - and it ran well. Just to check - when you say 28 second domestic heating oil is that the straw coloured paraffin/kerosene like what I was using rather than the red gas oil? Thanks.
Hi John I cant thank you enough for the time and effort you've put into making this video collection , I watched all of them before installing my unit which I must say I would not of had the confidence to do otherwise. Ive filled my first 5 litre container with diesel for the first run of which I intend to change to a 80/20 kerosene diesel mix in future. My one query would be that would it be suitable to run a good quality diesel fuel additive through once in a while to help prevent carbon build up or do you think this would not be necessary whilst using the kero/derv mix ? Thanks again for the great videos.👍 Cheers Steve
Hi Steve, First, thanks for the positive feedback. A kerro: diesel mix is a good fuel for these heaters, but rare in Aus except for cleaning purposes as it is quite expensive here. I personally do not think a diesel fuel additive is necessary, or wise to use in these heaters, as there are so many different types on the market with a wide range of ingredients. I think you would need to know just what is in a particular additive and then do some actual testing. Better to just add some kerro. JMcK
Hmmm little pistons going up and down real fast... Sounds like a job for castor oil! A dash of that might help the kerosene lubrication issue. It does have a fairly low flash-point and always kept those Cox .049 Glow engines running at 23K RPM.
Love your engineering approach to this analysis! Make a video of your wild bird friends! They seem rather intelligent, and came asking for interaction... I'd bet it would get a ton of views...
Hi TTS, Thanks for the feedback. Quite a few people have asked about the birds. Perhaps one day I might do a video of them. That is a very small “perhaps”. Cheers. JMcK
I get starting issues on Kero here in the uk, ive cleaned and maintained the burn chamber and the heater produced about a teaspoon of ash in 6 months of winter use but I put that down to the 25ml of 2 stroke oil I add to each 10litre tank ful of kero, some people report that they have run kero here in the Uk for as much as two years without any pump issues at all. my heater seems to require a little more air to get started so I had to reduce the fuel pump speed from 5.5hz down to 5hz and increase the minium fan speed from 1500rpm to 1800rpm and this seems to make the kero ignite a little quicker. sometimes it would ignite just before the fan increased its speed and because the fan was not up to speed the ignition would fail . increasing the fan speed at the lower end seems to make the fan respond a little sooner aiding the burn when the heater is cold. I have now cut the air intake pipe in half and straightened it out so it doesnt struggle to get air and instead of the baffle ive put a little piece of old stocking over the end with an elastic band. I found if I removed the air intake pipe completely ignition takes place much sooner on kero and diesel so I figured that the air pipe must be inhibiting ignition to some degree. and yes Kero is much cheaper in the UK than in Aus or the USA cheaper than red diesel or off road diesel. currently $1.95 a litre in your money. it is currently £2.7578 AUS dollars per litre for road diesel here in the UK. 11/08/2023.
Hi There These heaters do NOT like burning any oil additives, particularly two stroke oil. It creates large carbon deposits in the glow plug screen and atomisation screens. From what I have been told your heating kerro in the UK has a high sulphur content, unlike lighting kerro. If this is the case you do not need any lubrication additives. In Australia we use lighting kerro, and this needs a bit of lubrication, and I use 10% Diesel in the kerro for lubrication. JMcK
Greetings from the Mitta Valley, mine lasted two months running on low(50%) and it all sooted up. I ordered another one hoping I'll treat it better this time. Some claim that jet kero works well but I don't want to keep a time bmob under my house, smart, no? They're good little gadgets if you know how to treat them right, lets face it, nothing is perfect in this world, 'couse we are not perfect that invent them. Cheers mate :-)
Hi George, It is good practice to run these heaters on a high setting for a few minutes before shutting them down. A kerosene/diesel mix, at say 70/30 or 80/20 run through the heater on a high setting for 15 mins or so will help clean out your heater. There is very little difference in risk factor of kerosene storage and diesel storage. Yes, kerosene is used in jet engines, but it is also in stoves, lanterns and fridges in many countries. JMcK
In Belgium it is called "Lamp olie type C" for indoor kerosine heaters. "Lamp olie type B" is for lighting and contains more sulfer. Diesel is about 1.22 euro and the type C is about 0.8 euro per liter.
Hi John, it may have been mentioned earlier but in the U.K. and in some other countries Kero for domestic heating has the duty rebated. In simple terms the duty per litre on diesel is £0.57 per litre ( slightly less in other European countries ) yet its £0.00 per litre for Kero. Red Diesel in the U.K. ( dyed to identify it ...also known as MGO in Europe {marked gas oil})) and Green in Ireland for agriculture or heating purposes also has a lot less duty than diesel for road use but it’s basically ordinary diesel with a harmless dye ( all types are mostly low sulphur ). It’s far cheaper in Europe to use MGO in these heaters.
Hi Patrick Thanks for that valuable feedback. Yes you guys are very lucky over there. In Aus, bulk kerosene is about three times the cost of diesel where in years past it was around half the cost. A 20 ltr container of kerosene in Aus today will cost you around A$90 Cheers. JMcK
Fantastic information. Q: Burning kerosene eliminates any soot at low speeds, would a diesel additive increase the lubricity and protect the fuel pump?
Hi Spencer, If you are using a product like lighting kerosene as a fuel you need some additional product for lubricity, generally a minimum of 10% diesel will suffice. Some countries have a high sulfur content heating kerosene, and this sulfur is generally enough for lubrication. I do not know the diesel additive you refer to, but I advise against using additives like 2stroke oil, as burning oils produce carbon deposits. Think of it, if it smokes when burnt it makes carbon. Cheers. JMcK
I'm doing my research on these heaters and you pointed out something very important if wanting to run them on KEROSENE. Lubrication - Guess, if I get one, to ALWAYS BURN Diesel. Thank you from the colonies..
Hi Admiral, they appear to run ok if your country produces a high sulfur content commercial kerosene. The sulfur gives lubrication. Otherwise you can run a kerro diesel mix. There is no point in running a kerro diesel mix in some countries, like Australia, apart from cleaning purposes, as our kerro is far more expensive than diesel. J
I added Exocet keronsene lubricity additive 1:5000 to uk heating kerosene and ran it in my heater for a week. Seemed to run fine except that the heater temp at maximum power was 219 degrees c. Where as with diesel it is 230. I thought kerosene burns hotter than diesel. Gone back to diesel as it seems hotter but this may just be psychological but the heater defo runs 10 degrees cooler. Any thoughts?
Hi L71 Thanks for the feedback. I stand to be corrected, but from contributors, I am told that UK heating kerosene is not pure kerosene like lighting kerosene, and in fact has a high sulphur content. The high sulphur content provides adequate pump lubrication without the need for additives. I am also told heating kerosene is a fraction of the cost of diesel in the UK, so a little loss of heating ability could be accepted. JMcK
In Ireland I know of many people who run diesel cars on kerosene. It's very common as it's about 1/3 the price of diesel. To combat the lubrication issues many will add some two stroke oil into the tank. I know a guy who put 100k miles on an old VW golf TDI using pure kerosene and no two stroke oil. Never had any engine problems at all.
I checked the price of Kerosene and diesel here in the Netherlands. When one wants to buy Kerosene in small amounts (Bottles with 20 liters of Kero) then Diesel at the pump is 3x cheaper. Due to taxation there is also a diesel fuel for tractors and boats and such. This has a lower taxation and is therefore even cheaper. However, I am not familiar with those prices.
I have used kerosene on a different type of burner and to solve the wear problem on the pumps we just added 2 stroke oil to the kerosene. We mixed 5lts 2 stroke to 2000lts of kerosene
Hi there, sadly these heaters do not like any oils, including 2 stroke. All oils produce smoke and carbon deposits, which eventually gum up the burner atomisation screens and the burner itself. JMcK
I'm in the UK running my heater on kerosene. The original pump died (zero function) after several months, the replacement pump lasted 24 hours and now has zero function. There is a click sound at h on, but no pumping at all, nothing. Is this a lubrication issue or something else? Many thanks for any advice.
Hi Christian, As I understand it, in the UK you have heating kerro that has some Sulfur content and lightning kerro which is very pure. The pumps need some lubrication, sometimes there is enough Sulfur in heating kerro for this, but if unsure suggest you add 10% to 20% diesel to the kerosene to give piston lubrication. JMcK
Hi there John , a Taswegian here.....Kero is expensive "diggers" like you know, but is it worth running say a couple of litres at the end of the cold weather just to clean the heater and fuel line through..? As over 4 months or so not used...
Hi Namdor, running a high kerro/diesel mix 90/10, at end of season on a med to high Hz setting for 15 to 30 mins really helps to clean out any accumulated carbon. JMcK
John, your supposition about absolute certain premature failure of a dosing pump run on kerosene, perhaps within days, is based upon a single dosing pump failure years ago? Do I understand that correctly? If so...there seems a serious lack of evidence on this particular idea. Have you run any further tests? What effect does the quality of dosing pump have in the failure? Does it matter is the pump is new or used? Will 100% of the all dosing pumps run on low grade kerosene in fact fail within days? How many days? Thanks for the video.
Hi GH, This series is to try and give some advice to DIY people who want to install a heater themselves. These little pumps have no external lubrication and get their lubrication from the diesel. In Australia our lighting kerro is very pure with little to no lubrication properties. In other parts of the world their kerro has a high sulfur content which does provide lubrication, and the pumps run ok. Yes the age of the pump would have a bearing on its performance. At this stage I have better things to do than run a destruction test on a diesel heater DIESEL dosing pump using a non standard non lubricating liquid. Perhaps after I buy a new petrol mower and I see how long it will run without adding any 2stroke oil to the petrol for lubrication. Thanks for your comments. Cheers, JMcK
Where I live in the US kerosene is not easily available however I have access to Jet A fuel which is basically high grade kerosene. I would prefer to use kerosene or a 50/50 kerosene diesel mixture due to the sub zero weather. My question is would the Jet A have enough lubrication to prevent the pump from wearing out? Or would it be best to just stay with #1 diesel.
Hi Larry, Jet A fuel has high sulfur content compared to road diesel. Somewhere around 400 to 900 ppm sulfur compared to about 50 ppm sulfur in road diesel. But each country is slightly different concentrations. It is totally up to you, but I think it is worth a try to use Jet A on a long term basis. These days you can buy a Chines copy dosing pump for about $20, so it would not break the bank if you wore it out. JMcK
Hi CV, They run very well on Jet A, but strongly suggest you add 10% diesel for pump lubrication. The pump has no external lubrication and uses the diesel to lubricate the little piston. Cheers. JMcK
Do you think adding a small amount of engine oil to the kerosene could add the lubricity the pump needs? or would it have too sooty of a burn thank you for the great series, just bought my heater and am trying to learn all the best practices!
In the states we have low sulfur diesel for motor cars and trucks to lower emissions, I'm assuming this would also injure the metering pumps. Off-road or farm "red" diesel I believe has higher sulfur content. I haven't found a source for 2-K/K2 kerosene where I live, I suppose because of the temperate climate. I believe it's mostly used to mix in trucks to help with waxing in the cold. Aviation fuel might be another option, but likely has its own issues.
I run my heater on diesel, but once a week I will run it on kerosene for a few hours just to clean any crap out. So far this year diesel is cheaper than it was last winter in Canada. I was wondering about diesel additives ???? Could I add a cap full of the cleaner on every fill-up, and maybe get the same cleaning results as kerosene ????
Hi David, I don't like to comment on things unless I have personally tested the product or the process. There are many different additives on the market, and I have not personally tested them for effectiveness on cleaning these heaters, so I can't offer you an opinion. If you use one during your coming winter I would appreciate some feedback. JMcK
Another good video on kerosene and more. If you mount your dosing pump slightly below your supply tank, you will have NO air bubbles. You have to ask yourself where the air is coming from. Sucking fuel up from a tank, like the main tank on your van may contribute to air in the system. These heaters dont seem to mind, as Johns video indicates. I believe if it is bled properly before start up, you will have NO air in the system.
15 seconds priming seems to do not harm at all at startup. A new chinese diesel and water heater has recently been produced and it has a different approach to starting it primes the fuel into the heater with the pump running at high speed for about 10 seconds before ignition and it seems to start up in around 30 seconds which is much faster than many others taking 2 mins or longer.
Why don't you mix in a little bit of Veggie oil with your kerosene that should help lubricate the pump correct and should be thinned out by the kerosene what's your thoughts on this
Hi there, the issue with all oil products is they do not burn clean and leave soot deposits in the burner. Soot buildup is the problem child with these heaters. Better to add some diesel to the kerro. If your country produces a high sulfur content commercial kerosene, it may have enough lubricity to stop pump damage. J
@@johnmck1147 Do you have high sulfur commercial grade kerosene available in your area? I'd be interested to know what sort of difference you found if you tested it.
Phantom309 The common Kerosene in Aus is low sulfur lighting kerosene, and it has very poor lubrication. I have heard in parts of Europe high sulfur commercial kerosene has been used ok in these diesel heaters. With a Chinese dosing pump so cheap to replace these days, it could be worth a try for you to try commercial kerosene, if that is what you wish to try. JMcK
Hi Bill, it all depends on the sulfur content and lubricity of the kerosene in your location, and whether or not your pump has to suck or lift up the fuel. Without knowing those details I would probably start with 2 litres of diesel in 8 litres of kerosene and see how that goes. J
Hi Sammy, These heaters can use lots of different types of fuel, however the greater the “oil” content the more carbon produced and the more frequent the heater service. JMcK
Anyone know where I can buy some Kerosine in Scotland Uk ?? It’s been minus degrees celsius for a couple weeks just now & I been running my heater for 3 winters with weather like this OR worse,, my little heater is a must have for me ANY help or pointers would be really appreciated ✌🏼
Hey John. Thanks for the heads up! You're the first TH-camr I've watched to address the potential for Kero to kill a pump. What Kero/diesel mix should we be looking at to avoid any pump problems? Kerosene here in the UK is significantly cheaper than red diesel so a mix would be the way I'd like to go. Thanks.
Hi Jim, As I understand it, you have both lighting and heating kerro in the UK. Heating kerro generally has a high sulphur content and is probably ok on its own. Lightning kerro is much purer and needs about 10% diesel for lubrication. A kerro / diesel mix of 90/10 should solve all issues. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hey John. Thanks for getting back. I get kerro from the pump so I'd imagine it's the lowest grade fuel. Lighting kerro hugely more expensive so won't be using that. I'll try the 90/10 and see how I get on. Thanks once again...
I drive an old Japanese diesel van (1992 Delica). As now in Canada all our diesel is LSD, I was advised to add lubricity agent to my fuel, which I do at every fill. When I was installing my heater, I recall reading that you should not burn diesel that has additives in these, so I run my heater from a separate diesel tank and use LSD diesel for the heater. So the message that I am taking away here is that I have been doing the opposite of what I should be doing. And that is perhaps why recently my heater seems to have stopped working, and as far as I can tell, it is not getting fuel. Sounds like a new doser pump should be my first troubleshooting effort, and from now on I should add lubricity to my fuel tank for the heater.
@@pauls466 You're right. Before Russia invaded Ukraine, I had given up on my 2 Chinese units, and ordered a Webasto (German company Webasto spent 10 million Euro and built a facility there in 2017, (which resulted in Russian sellers offering their heaters online). I bet they regret that now!). I feed it the same fuel as my van, and so far there have been no problems associated with the altitude or temps it sometimes has to operate in (2100m and -30C). Sometimes the fuel has additive, others not, does not seem to affect it. The upside to this was, I was able to use the same mounting holes, lines, and cabinet I had originally built for the Chinese units, which ultimately made the changeover a lot faster and easier.
I wonder how so many people are using kerosene for years without issues. Maybe it's the higher sulfur kerosene you mentioned that's available in the US? I'm switching my Espar D5 over to a dedicated 5-gallon kerosene tank so I'm trying to make sure I can protect my fuel pump. Maybe a lubricant additive? Or a mix of diesel and kerosene that runs cleaner yet still protects the pump?
Hi Money pit, These heaters don't like oil additives like two stroke oil. Lots of carbon produced. Commercial kerosene in many countries has a high Sulfur content that provides lubrication. If using very pure lighting kerosene it is better to add 10% diesel to the kerosene for lubrication. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks so much. I have no idea what I'm doing, just trying to heed the warnings of diesel clogging up the Espars. I'll go with your 90/10 mix being that I believe our gas stations sell 1-K.
Hi John, I have a question: I would like to run my chinese air heater on pure lighting kero (because of the lower smell of the fluid and exhaust gases). Due to the lubrication fact you mentioned I am thinking about mixing the kero with some two stroke engine oil. Do you think that would be sufficient to prevent the wear of the pump? BR Wilke
Hi Wilke, All oils, including quality 2 stroke oils burn dirty and creat carbon residue. Put some diesel, kerro, and oil on a rag and compare. Better to mix with diesel for lubrication. I suggest you start at an 80:20 kerro diesel mix for low sulfur lighting kerro. Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hi John, Thx for your fast answer. I shoud have been reading all other questions/answers before... I will try using lamp oil with higher sulphur and stock a replace pump in my toolbox. Cheers Wilke
Thanks for your video. I want to run my diesel heater on kerosene because I filled my tank up in my van and spilled diesel fuel and had to use a degreaser and water. I've been using kerosene in my parts washer for years because it's cheaper than parts cleaning solution and it evaporates. I can buy kerosene from an actual pump in the US where I live . Last time I bought some it was US$ 3.00 for a US gallons or 3.8 liters. Diesel is around $2.79 a US gallon to give you a perspective. On the flip side I'm curious if these machines would run on a mixture of used motor oil and kerosene or diesel . Have you tried that?
Hi James, As stated in the video these heaters run very well on kerosene, but need a bit of diesel (10%) for lubrication. They will run on a used motor oil mixture. - for a short while. Burning any oil causes lots of carbon build up which rapidly clogs the burner and atomisation screens, causing heater flame out. Cheers. JMcK
I just switched to car gasoline using a pump meant for the eberspacher gasoline model. The heater lights up, but doesn't burn continuously, it instead pulses. After a while, it shuts down with error code 08.
@@johnmck1147 thanks, I am assuming the shutdown would be automatic prior to failure and damage to the heaters circuit board. John Another issue: I plan to exchange the single outlet to a four outlet adapter consisting of four 42mm od/35mm id ducts. Because the initial expelled heat seems to be around 210+F, what flexible duct material and accompanying insulation would work best for ducting under and behind my RV cabinets. I am thinking of 1.25 electrical aluminum flexible conduit, wrapped with some fiber insulation? to duct from 6" to 8 feet under and behind drawers. However I did use muffler wrap for the exhaust to increase efficiency and help protect 8 inches as I passed through my storage area to the outside of my rig before putting muffler (youtube indicated that if you need to extend the exhaust pipe length, more pipe should be between the muffler and unit than from muffler and end of exhaust pipe, and the installer should take NOTE THE DRAIN HOLE IN THE MUFFLERS FACE DOWN!). BTW your information videos are invaluable to anyone installing a diesel heater. PS I contacted several 8K Ebay sellers and they could not tell me the difference specs between 8K and 5K heaters! what a scam. THANKS again as I have purchased another one and I will be constructing a portable self reliant unit with internal battery (thus the question regarding automatic shutdown), fuel cell, and attached solar panel, all in one. I will include usb charging capabilities, and external battery hookup to use if necessary.
Yes Keith, the heater will go into shutdown mode at around 10.5 volts. All will be ok unless the battery suddenly collapses when the glow plug switches on and draws around 9 to 10 amps. Re the outlet pipes, are you talking 1.25 ins of flexible aluminum? If so, I think that is too small. Narrow ducting causes a lot of flow restriction. If you can't easily source the correct heater tubing, you could use aluminum vent ducting from a hardware store, or even try PVC pipe as ducting. I have tested 90 mm PVC domestic drain piping connected directly to the heater, and it worked well, but that was for testing. In practice I would not connect the PVC to the heater without at least 1500 of correct heat resistant ducting in front. However if in an enclosed space the PVC will soften. In normal operation the heater will shut down with an outlet air temperature of around 125 deg C. The PVC I tested was able to handle that temperature, but softened. In an accident overheat, the fan is stopped and that greatly elevated air temperature does not reach the PVC ducting with the 1500 mm of flexible correct ducting as a joiner. The PVC is easily to route with bends, joiners, and t pieces. It does get hot and can soften so would need wrapping in inclosed spaces. However better to use the proper ducting. Good luck, JMcK
Hi Keith, since I wrote this I did more special testing with PVC. I inserted a 500 mm test length of PVC pipe in my boat heater outlet about 500 mm from the heater outlet. Running the heater at max heat and in an enclosed space the PVC softened. For install and forget peace of mind, I would suggest not to use PVC. JMcK
John McK 47 that is why am thinking of using electrical conduit aluminum flexible as it can he bent and directed as needed I guess if I either wrap it with Muffler wrap or some sort of insulation product that would help protect the cabinets in which it goes Under and around. have you found any good insulation products for such a project? Thanks
No Scott. Sorry. The computer control board gets the right fuel air mix for each heat setting by matching the fan speed, to the number of pump pulses. Cheers, JMcK
It's kind of hit-or-miss to find inexpensive kerosene when traveling, so I'm thinking of just using a low-sulphur kerosene mixed with diesel for maintenance purposes only, as a way to occasionally "clean" the unit. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this - namely, how frequently would you do this, what mix ratio to use and how long to run it for a proper cleaning? Much appreciation in advance if you have the time to offer your thoughts! 😊
Hi CP That is fine. The frequency is very dependent on your install, hours used and your operation practices. With a good install without restrictions and proper operation you can go years without a carbon clean. For preventative maintenance, keeping the above points in mind, and the fact I do not know your usage hours, I would suggest for med to high usage, a kerro/diesel mix of 90/10 , run for one hour at 4 to 5 Hz, at season end be a starting point for your consideration. Regards. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks so much for your reply! And many "thank you's" for this series - it's quite impressive how thorough you've been in describing the operation of these units. I live above the 45th parallel in the U.S., and winters can get quite cold. There's a chance this could become my primary heating source all winter. I can imagine racking up 2000 hours in a single season to heat a small travel trailer. My intention is to install it in such a way that it's quick to swap out, and to purchase a 2nd unit as a "backup", so that I can swap out a failing unit to clean/repair/replace with little disruption to heating. I greatly appreciate all the safety, installation, operation and maintenance tips you've provided in this series, and will be following your advice closely.
Cats Pajamas Hi CP, Redundancy is a smart practice. Having a spare heater in your situation is a very good idea. If you are in such a cold environment I assume you use winter diesel. However adding some kerosene, perhaps 25%, may help prevent cold weather gelling issues as well as soot reduction. But our winters here are very mild by comparison and I have not personally tested a kerro diesel mix in real world freezing conditions, to get accurate real world data. Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 OK, thank you!! Yes, they switch over to winter diesel in November. But maybe I'll also add a percentage of kerosene regularly (20-25%) in the coldest months whenever I have convenient access to it. Thanks so much for your advice, I value it greatly!!
Hi John, thanks for the great series of videos. I have a 5kW heater. The default lowest setting is 1.2Hz. If I am using kero (80:20 kero:diesel) for a cleaner burn, am I safe to run the heater this low and not risk sooting up? I’ll run it on high for a few minutes before shutdown if needed, but 1.2Hz puts out plenty of heat. Thanks
Hi Bruce, that should work fine if you have a good install (without too many restrictions in exhaust or combustion air intake) . Enjoy the warmth, JMcK
John Mck, what you class as lighting kerosene out there is commonly known a parrafin here in the British Isles/ UK. As you say this parrafin oil has virtually no lubricity factor whatsoever. A drop of parrafin rubbed between the index finger and thumb has a sort of squeaky dryness quality to it. Diesel and heating kerosene both feel oily and slippery by comparison.
@@johnmck1147 did you see the other post I made about when the visible air bubbles dissapear in the clear fuel lines and how it is a firm indicator that the atomisation gauze is getting very blocked with carbon? I have even seen the pump produce high enough pressure in the lines to jack the clear pipe out of the rubber joint piece before now.
As most people know, burning two stroke oil makes more smoke than a four stroke engine. All “oils” make smoke. Burning all oils produces carbon. You can use two stroke oil, but it will make carbon deposits and the heater will need more regular servicing. It is better to use 10% diesel in the kerro than oil. If kerro is high sulphur commercial, not pure lighting kerro you don't really need any additives for lubricant. JMcK
Hi Anthony, First you do not need to add anything to the diesel to aid lubrication. Diesel is a lubricant. As for adding marvel mystery oil to the kerosene, I can not say as I am reluctant to comment on anything I have not personally tested. What I can say is don't burn “oils” in these heaters. “Oils”, that make smoke, like 2 stroke oil, are bad in these heaters as they make excessive carbon. They give you lubrication but also give you excessive carbon and maintenance issues. Cheers JMcK
Very informative. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge. Hopefully my Walmart kerosene here in USA has enough lubricity. I will probably add a mixture of diesel to be on the safe side
If your heater is tuned right it will clean on diesel. Diesel is so cheap in USA. And if you want to run diesel or paraffin you will be just fine. John's pump was faulty or his fuel was dirty. These pumps are also used for gasoline, which is a very dry fuel with little to no lubrication. You can pump water in them.
Hi Jason, better to use a diesel/kerro mix. Oils will work, but the issue with oils in these little heaters is oils burnt leave large amounts of soot byproduct. It is soot and carbon that causes maintenance issues with these heaters. Depending on where you live, some countries have a commercial kerosene, as distinct from what Aussies would call a lighting kerro. These commercial kerosenes sometimes contain a high sulfur content. It the sulfur level is high enough that can sometimes provide adequate lubrication. JMcK
I have no personal experience with your Marine 3 kerosene in the US. Is it for lighting or heating? If for lighting it is normally very pure and will require about 10% diesel in the kerro to provide lubrication for the pump. If heating, the kerro will generally have some sulphur content and this is generally enough to provide pump lubrication. If it does not work out, on worry, the pumps are very cheap to replace. JMcK
Thanks for your reply. I can’t find 2C kerosene anywhere so I’m thinking about a 70/30 blend of diesel and kerosene respectively for fast start up of the diesel heater along with some lubrication from the oil and then keep a spare pump handy just in case. Does. This mixture sound reasonable to you or should I alter it?@@johnmck1147
Hi Ben, as mentioned previously I have no experience with your kerosene, but in Australia with our very pure lighting kerro, I personally only need to run a 90/10 …..Kerro/diesel mix. Cheers. JMcK
Very handy thanks. Here in the UK at the moment, Diesel is about 85p per litre, whereas Kerosene is about 22p per litre, so Kero is certainly more attractive, but it's a shame it's not good for the little pump. Maybe a mix would be best for me :) Thanks again!
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John. That's really handy to know, and it'll save some good money! I've really enjoyed your videos, and envy your 40 degrees! Here in Wales at the moment, it's a good day if it reaches 5 without driving wind and rain.
Informative video, just about to order one of these and have a large quantity of heating oil to use if possible, would the unit work with a gravity fed tank high up or does it require a fixed higher pressure ? cheers and thanks again.
Hi NM, First, what do you mean by heating oil in your country? If it is kerosene that is ok. If it is oily diesel or similar that will not work. These heaters will burn anything - for a while. But any “oily fuel causes rapid carbon buildup in the heater, and then it will not work. A gravity fuel system is ok, but you must install a fuel shut off valve before the pump and turn off when not in use otherwise fuel can leak past pump seals and flood heater. JMcK
Thanks John, v helpful - I have since watched a number of your excellent videos and now understand the role of the pump, simple but clever. I can see many of the people who have similar videos on YT have also watched your channel as everyone now mentions the infamous 'green' fuel hose along with other bits too. Yup, heating fuel is Kerosene, point taken about lubing the small pump, have some 2 stroke low ask oil if needed to add a drop or two, I may purchase a spare pump though just in case. Thanks again.
Just search on line for “fuel pump chinese diesel air heater” there are lots of suppliers. It is the same pump for 2Kw to 8Kw heaters. Just make sure you order correct voltage of your system. They come in 12V and 24 V. JMcK
I'm located in Canada and I heat my home with furnace oil. I believe this is also the same as #2 fuel. I've heard that this is much the same as diesel but at a way cheaper cost. Wondering if you know if it can be used or not in these diesel heater. Furnace oil is located at many gas stations and at this time the price is $1.50 per liter compared to diesel at $2.50 per liter. Anyone know if this will work or if they have tried it yet.
Hi Steve, I do not know about Canadian furnace oil, but these heaters will burn almost anything. I personally would try it and see. Perhaps another viewer can give some feedback. Steve, If you do try it, I would love some feedback on how it went. JMcK
Great video ... all of them on these heaters. Question these pumps are cheap , would it make sense to buy a spare one to run a cleaning cycle once a year or whatever interval that would be appropriate?
Hi GF, not sure what you mean with "cleaning cycle". If you have a fuel filter in the fuel line before the pump there is nothing in the fuel system to clean. The real maintenance with these heaters is carbon build up in the burner chamber and the atomising screens. You can't clean these out by pumping fuel through the heater. Thanks for the positive comments. JMcK.
John McK 47 what I meant was switch the pump and run kerosene periodically to clean burner... I thought you had said that was a plus of using kerosene...
G F Hi GF, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, running a high kerro mix through these heaters can be a good end of season maintenance program. So I assume you would have one fuel tank running diesel and a second fuel tank with a high kerro/diesel mix, with two pumps and two fuel lines. Yes, you could do that, but you would need a y valve in the fuel lines to change tanks and a switch in electrical system to change pumps. Perhaps it may be simpler to just have the one pump and a y valve in the pick up line to change tanks. Because the dosing pumps from China are so cheap, it is good practice to carry a spare. Cheers, JMcK
Hi TechyBen, In winter in Aus we actually do get some snow. True. Anyway, that is what I am told. Never actually seen it myself. Even where I live in Qld, with the most beautiful winter days we can go below 0°C at night, so a heater producing lovely dry heat can make life very comfortable. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks, also seems to make sense if it's rare you get cold weather. Why fit central heating if it's for one week of the year? I've setup one of these temporarily in my boat, and a few here in the UK have them as permanent winter heating in their boats for when they don't have time for the log burning stove. :)
Hi Bernd, you need the pump. It is married to the controller and hence to the fan and sends out the correct number of fuel pulses for a set heat setting. You also need the pulse force to push the fuel through the atomisation screens. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you. It started to dawn on me while watching the next few episodes of yours. I also got a supposed 8kW unit, shame I did not see your series before purchase. Well, at leest I know the real values... Thank you again - really good stuff you publicised, time well spend in a generous way!
Hi Hasger, Yes 2 stroke oil will work, but I advise against as it creates smoke and carbon when burnt, and hence more frequent maintenance. Better to add around 10% diesel to the kerro. JMcK
Hi Tedzilla, the birds are Australian Magpie, and Australian Butcher Bird. Normally Magpies are very agressive when nesting and when they have young, but the local male nesting in my trees for some 10 years now has never attacked me, and flies down every morning to say hello. - And get a treat. Please don't cook them. 🙀
Hi John I have now got my heater up and running in cold wet france lol, I'm using a power pack from the mains electric and works very well but one question is that we have a few power cuts here and was wondering if it would kill my heater?
Hi Khris, As stated in the videos, when you turn the heater off it goes through a shutdown cycle that can last some minutes. The heater runs down and the fuel pump stops, the glow plug comes on to help burn off excess diesel and then the fan continues to run until the metal heat exchanger cools down sufficiently. If the heater is turned off at the mains the cool down cycle can not happen, and the heat in heat exchanger is not dissipated. The higher the pre shutdown heat setting of the heater, the higher the damage from the contained heat. You are unlikely to have a fire issue, but unless you can quickly open the heater case and manually fan the heater, you will most certainly melt and destroy the ECU, which is mounted on the front of the heat exchanger. You could also destroy the heater fan, and even melt parts of the plastic case. Perhaps if you are in an area of regular power outages, you should consider running your heater off a small battery connected to a small mains charger. A small motorbike battery connected to a 5 amp automatic battery charger should work just fine. Because the battery charger is permanently connected to the battery it should be an automatic type. Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you John will look at this and see about getting it done,, we have 32 sec heating oil would I need to add anything to it or can it be used as is,, many thanks for your help with this,,
Khris A Hi Khris, I do not know that heating oil so I can't advise you. But most heating oils have a good sulfur content and can be used as is. You could add 10% diesel to the heating oil if you are concerned, or you could try it as it is. If in the future you have issues with the pump running on straight heating oil you could buy a new pump, the ones from China are not too expensive. If you need to buy a replacement pump, there are many suppliers and I list just one below. You also may consider buying a pump now, and keeping it as a spare. www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Car-Air-Diesel-Parking-Oil-Fuel-Pump-For-Eberspacher-Universal-Heater-Set/363027948853?hash=item548626e535:g:gsYAAOSw5FVe8FNt Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 your a star mate,, thanks for the information, can't believe how economical they are to run, it was far easier to calculate the dosage and work out the amount of fuel it uses,, thanks once again for the down under info 👍👍
Thanks John for giving us lots of information regarding these heaters, I live in france and parrifn heaters are everywhere and most shopping centers sell the heating parrifn in 20ltr containers, my feeling is that they are low in sulfur so would an idea to add a diesel mix? The other question is that if people are running the heaters from their fuel tank and are driving in very low temperatures will this foul up the heaters over time ? Many thanks
Hi Khris, I do not know the lubricity of heating paraffin in France, but generally heating paraffin has some sulphur (giving lubrication to the pump) while lighting paraffin (used in kerosene lamps) is very pure. If unsure suggest you add around 5% to 10% diesel to the paraffin. Re the second question, generally cold areas sell "winter" diesel in winter to lessen the gelling problems of diesel in freezing conditions. If the vehicle engine runs ok, then the heater should run ok. If you find yourself getting heater burn issues, suggest you run some kerro through the heater occasionally to remove any gel deposits. I can not be real helpful here as I do not have any real personal experience of diesel gelling in these heaters in freezing cold conditions. Our winters can get down to -2°C to -4°C in the mornings but then warm up to 10°C to 15°C during the day. In Queensland our winters are like a Canadian or Northern European Summers. We are very spoilt here. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you for the information and giving your time to do this,, one last question is what do you think is the maximum that I can extend the exhaust pipe as setting up the heater requires me run a pipe of the same size for about 8 feet,, Many thanks for your time and help,,
Khris A Hi khris, What! You use feet measurements in France? (Just kidding) A 8 foot exhaust of the same diameter will be fine if it ascends. May be ok if it runs horizontal, but will most likely cause you issues if it trends downwards. JMcK
I'm just starting this video but I've heard a lot of people say they run kerosene in theirs because it's the cleaner running fuel. I guess I'll find out the truth from your video in a second.
the uk government will be making tax exempt red diesel hard to get for most people from next year.. so will be giving heating kerosene. diesel mix a try...what do you think of those new silent pumps ??
Thank you for that information. Do you have a video on how to use the Blue colour controller, like the one sat on your bench in this blog? I've just brought my first Chinese heater and it's come with no instructions!
Hi MyJon, I have done a basic controller video, but I have not done a detailed video on the controllers. If you do a TH-cam search there are are some controller videos on other channels. Sorry. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you. Yes I've found posts for the other 2 controllers. This Blue and silver one seems less popular! I am now managing to understand how to use it, as it seems similar to the other two. I'm sure I'll get there in the end.
Great videos. I installed one in my RV and although the temp at the vent is over 150°, it isn't warming the camper as I hoped. Would it hurt anything to add a fan to push more are through the heater, to try and get better circulation?
Hi James, yes you could install a fan to circulate the air better. However, you should be getting a good volume of hot air coming out the vent, so check to see there are no restrictions in the air intake and air delivery side of the heater. You do not say what size your van is, whether it is insulated, and what the outside air temp is. I also wonder if you have a small 2 kw heater rather than the more common 5 kw heater. A 5 kw heater should keep an insulated, average size van toasty in below 0 deg Celsius temperatures. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 it is a 30ft 5th wheel, with one big slide out. The heater is supposed to be 3kw. I ran a 4 inch insulated duct off the unit and separated into 3 2 inch ducts. Outside was 24°f and inside held steady at 60°f. I was thinking of adding a fan on the return side to push more air through. I want to make sure that it wouldn't cool the heater too much and cause a combustion problem. I can't seem to find cfm ratings on these heaters. With everything else in place, it shouldn't be a problem to switch to a 8kw size.
james w Hi James, What you are looking for is the difference in temperature from the air going into the heater and the air coming out of the heater, this heated outlet air then mixes with your van air and raises the temperature. Forcing more air over the heat exchanger would not affect the combustion process, but would lower the outlet air temperature. However even though the outlet air is of lower temperature there is more of it. Net result, really no change. The Chinese do not make a real 8 KW heater at this stage, some sellers advertise 8Kw and sell at a premium, but they are just selling standard 5 KW heaters. See my video on this. You could slot in a 5KW heater if you wish to increase the heat output in your van, or if you want to be really toasty, and have the space, install a seperate heater, so you have 2 heaters. Real cold nights you run both heaters. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 It is awesome that today's technology let's a guy from the United States get great advice from a knowledgeable person from around the world. You have done a great job with your videos. I appreciate the time you put into making them and replying to my message. Because of space, I believe I will try a 5k unit next. Thank you sir.
Best channel for diesel heaters online. Thank you sir you are an honor to Aussies god bless you 🇦🇺
Hi Patrick, pleased you found the videos helpful. JMcK
I have been running one of these heaters for over 2 years on UK standard low sulphur kerosene. It runs 10 hours a day 5 days a week. Over 5000 hours now. No pump problems at all. Just serviced it. Very clean indeed. Even the glow plug is mint.
Thanks for that feedback Codpawn.
Are you using commercial heating kerosene or “lighting” kerosene? JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Standard UK central heating oil which is C2. Still low sulphur though!
👍. JMcK
Cheers for the info. Mine should arrive this week and I ain't paying £1.50 a litre for it lol.
As a noob to this, you mean the oil you have in your oil tank to feed your oil boiler when not on the gas network
Here in Canada, kerosene is added to road diesel in ever increasing amounts as weather gets colder. In midwinter it is more than half. I have hauled it and tank farms make no distinction between it, stove oil, or jet fuel. You can buy little 10l jugs of possibly purer kero at gas stations and hardware stores at a much higher price. A HUGE thank you for making me much more knowledgeable than the TWO professionals that tried and failed to repair the heater on my heavy freightliner cascadia a couple winters ago. I now realize that starting the truck shut the heater off too abruptly and probably coked up the screen. This was a factory install. It was awesome when working and the little tic tic tic was much better than an idling diesel. Cheers, you are a hero!
Hi Al, Thank you for that information and the positive comments. JMcK
Been watching the first few of your videos. Absolutely brilliant! You obviously have a wealth of knowledge and it is so kind of you to share it. I have what they euphemistically call an acquired brain injury but your detailed explanations allow me to understand exactly what is occurring. Once I have finished watching all your videos I intend buying one of the 5k units and putting it in our summerhouse (shed with windows😂) here in the U.K.
once again thank you so much, you have helped countless people.
Hi BL, thank you for your positive comments. I hope all goes well for you. JMcK
Thanks for the video, John. Fantastic explanation, and exactly what I had been wondering about! Greetings from the USA.
Your welcome Joe. Thanks for the feedback.
In the past when running kerosene or home heating oil as called here in Ireland I always add 2 litres of cooking oil to the keresen to lube the pump and haven't noticed any issues. Used this when running a 2.5 diesel engine. Love the videos really great information. Cheers John.
Thanks for the info and feedback David. JMcK
You could also try adding some low ash two stroke oil 👍🏻🇬🇧
Great info, thanks. I have about 25 gallons of waste kerosene and was about to run it pure in my heater. Thanks for the warning. I will now add some lubricant to it, and fortunately have some atf i need to get rid of as well. Saved me a pump failure, many thanks.
👍
So, based on this, pumps designed for petrol should use some sort of (teflon) seals instead of direct metal to metal contact. I have used petrol pumps that have been in service for 15 years and they seem no worse for wear. If the impulse flow amount is the same with kerosene (.02mL) then these could be successfully used with a diesel heater...?
Thank you John, I only just bought one of these 5kw heaters and only after watching many youtube videos on the subject.
but Your videos are easily the best most profesional, informative, and detailed ones anywhere. Especially the ones on Exhausts and Fuel deliver etc. you saved us a world of
problems and i am building everything you advised into mine Thank You
Hi TB, pleased you found the videos helpful. Happy New Year. JMcK
Thanks John for that detailed explanation. I camp in Alpine areas where we regularly have snow and sub-zero temperatures. Carbon build up from the diesel was so bad the diesel heaters would stop functioning. Pulling the heater out in such conditions was not fun. In fact, it is so off-putting a friend has binned the diesel heater for a far more expensive LPG Gas heater! We started hearing about using a kero/diesel mix last year and I think it slowed the build up, so your suggestion of a 50/50 mix will be tried this coming winter. I have also purchased another heater that is easier to take apart for cleaning the combustion chamber should the need arise.
We suspect the local "alpine diesel" is using a heating oil additive rather than Kerosene, which works fine with the diesel 4WD but of course the service station attendants don't have any idea what is in it! I will therefore try to take as much 'normal' diesel with me for mixing.
Hi John, you do not state where you live but in the US and some European countries their commercial Kerosene has a very high sulphur content which provides lubrication.
In such cases you could try a high kerro/diesel mix, like 80/20 or perhaps even 90/10.
Spare non branded metering pumps can be bought on eBay now for around for around $15, so it is not big expense if you destroy one in your testing.
LPG heaters are clean and simple but produce huge amounts of water vapour, causing condensation and mould. These little diesel heaters give you a nice dry heat.
I would appreciate info on how things go. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Snowy Mountains, Australia - where kero is really expensive!
Do you switch your heater to Alpine mode when you camp? If not, that should help prevent carbon build-up.
Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. I am doing a 2 hour burn in on mine and only had kerosene (USA K1) and was wondering.
You are such a godsend for providing this information. It helped me decide to use a diesel air heater in my shop. Thank for sharing this, from Henrico County Virginia
You Sir are a godsend!! Thank you so much for the wealth of information you share on your channel about these heaters. Mine shipped today so by the time it gets here I should have most of your videos watched!
Thanks for the positive feedback Kevin. JMcK
thanks john for the infomation ,that save me a lot time and trouble because i was going to run kerosene in my little air diesel heater.
Hi Mr T. Glad you found the video helpful. JMcK
Hi John...
In video #4 .. the 5kw heater second from the last. May I be so bold as to ask the brand name on that heater.
Hell of a fine job reviewing these heaters too, I might add.
I’ve been looking at alternative means of heat here also for some time, and your videos are by far the most informative out their....!
Great Job.. an Thanks again.
Hi Gauntlet,
First…Pleased you found the videos helpful.
Now your question…. None of the Chinese heaters I have purchased are branded, they are all generic.
I purchase them off eBay, from a seller who has a local (Australian warehouse), a good rating, and has a return policy.
Sorry I can't be more helpful…..Do you have a more detailed question? JMcK
great to know on the kerosense.i think currently in the Uk,if you buy it in 500 litres,red diesel is about £1 and C2 85p a litre(you dont need a license either). its worth getting a tank if its a long term hobby...campervaning/sailing etc. for me its my workshop. thanks for sharing the info John
👍
Thanks for all your vids … a new user in Canada
Hi PBP, pleased you found them helpful. JMcK
Hi John, interesting and informative. In the UK Kerosene (28sec domestic heating oil) goes up and down a few cents depending on the time of year but averages 93 Australian cents per litre, while road diesel is more than twice that. :)
Hi bobonmull, thanks for that information. JMcK
So what grade do we have that may effect the pump, given costs of replacing the pump
@@ifell3 i see that you are in the Uk, 28sec domestic heating oil is the cheapest and only option I use nowadays and have been running my heaters on it for years now without problem. The only difference between domestic heating oil (kerosene) and road diesel is the addition of a lubricant which is not necessary for domestic boilers or these heaters.
@@bobonmull hey awesome, thank you for the reply 👍
@@bobonmull Hi, I'm also in UK. Just bought one of these and had it running off some paraffin that had been sat in my shed for a few years that I originally got out of a pump at a fuel oil supplier - and it ran well. Just to check - when you say 28 second domestic heating oil is that the straw coloured paraffin/kerosene like what I was using rather than the red gas oil? Thanks.
Hi John
I cant thank you enough for the time and effort you've put into making this video collection , I watched all of them before installing my unit which I must say I would not of had the confidence to do otherwise.
Ive filled my first 5 litre container with diesel for the first run of which I intend to change to a 80/20 kerosene diesel mix in future.
My one query would be that would it be suitable to run a good quality diesel fuel additive through once in a while to help prevent carbon build up or do you think this would not be necessary whilst using the kero/derv mix ?
Thanks again for the great videos.👍
Cheers
Steve
Hi Steve,
First, thanks for the positive feedback.
A kerro: diesel mix is a good fuel for these heaters, but rare in Aus except for cleaning purposes as it is quite expensive here.
I personally do not think a diesel fuel additive is necessary, or wise to use in these heaters, as there are so many different types on the market with a wide range of ingredients. I think you would need to know just what is in a particular additive and then do some actual testing. Better to just add some kerro. JMcK
Hmmm little pistons going up and down real fast... Sounds like a job for castor oil! A dash of that might help the kerosene lubrication issue. It does have a fairly low flash-point and always kept those Cox .049 Glow engines running at 23K RPM.
Love your engineering approach to this analysis! Make a video of your wild bird friends! They seem rather intelligent, and came asking for interaction... I'd bet it would get a ton of views...
Hi TTS,
Thanks for the feedback.
Quite a few people have asked about the birds. Perhaps one day I might do a video of them.
That is a very small “perhaps”.
Cheers. JMcK
I get starting issues on Kero here in the uk, ive cleaned and maintained the burn chamber and the heater produced about a teaspoon of ash in 6 months of winter use but I put that down to the 25ml of 2 stroke oil I add to each 10litre tank ful of kero, some people report that they have run kero here in the Uk for as much as two years without any pump issues at all. my heater seems to require a little more air to get started so I had to reduce the fuel pump speed from 5.5hz down to 5hz and increase the minium fan speed from 1500rpm to 1800rpm and this seems to make the kero ignite a little quicker. sometimes it would ignite just before the fan increased its speed and because the fan was not up to speed the ignition would fail . increasing the fan speed at the lower end seems to make the fan respond a little sooner aiding the burn when the heater is cold. I have now cut the air intake pipe in half and straightened it out so it doesnt struggle to get air and instead of the baffle ive put a little piece of old stocking over the end with an elastic band. I found if I removed the air intake pipe completely ignition takes place much sooner on kero and diesel so I figured that the air pipe must be inhibiting ignition to some degree. and yes Kero is much cheaper in the UK than in Aus or the USA cheaper than red diesel or off road diesel. currently $1.95 a litre in your money. it is currently £2.7578 AUS dollars per litre for road diesel here in the UK. 11/08/2023.
Hi There
These heaters do NOT like burning any oil additives, particularly two stroke oil. It creates large carbon deposits in the glow plug screen and atomisation screens.
From what I have been told your heating kerro in the UK has a high sulphur content, unlike lighting kerro. If this is the case you do not need any lubrication additives.
In Australia we use lighting kerro, and this needs a bit of lubrication, and I use 10% Diesel in the kerro for lubrication. JMcK
Thanks again John for sharing your experience. Cute little birds, what kind of birds are they ?
The background birds you can hear are wild Australian Butcher Birds and Australian Magpie. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John.
👍
Thank you! A very solid in-depth video, thoroughly enjoyable !!!
Greetings from the Mitta Valley, mine lasted two months running on low(50%) and it all sooted up. I ordered another one hoping I'll treat it better this time. Some claim that jet kero works well but I don't want to keep a time bmob under my house, smart, no? They're good little gadgets if you know how to treat them right, lets face it, nothing is perfect in this world, 'couse we are not perfect that invent them. Cheers mate :-)
Hi George,
It is good practice to run these heaters on a high setting for a few minutes before shutting them down.
A kerosene/diesel mix, at say 70/30 or 80/20 run through the heater on a high setting for 15 mins or so will help clean out your heater.
There is very little difference in risk factor of kerosene storage and diesel storage. Yes, kerosene is used in jet engines, but it is also in stoves, lanterns and fridges in many countries. JMcK
Thanks for the video, John. Fantastic explanation, and exactly what I had been wondering about! Greetings from the Sweden.
👍
In Belgium it is called "Lamp olie type C" for indoor kerosine heaters. "Lamp olie type B" is for lighting and contains more sulfer. Diesel is about 1.22 euro and the type C is about 0.8 euro per liter.
Thanks for the feedback S/V Adma. JMcK
Hi John, it may have been mentioned earlier but in the U.K. and in some other countries Kero for domestic heating has the duty rebated. In simple terms the duty per litre on diesel is £0.57 per litre ( slightly less in other European countries ) yet its £0.00 per litre for Kero. Red Diesel in the U.K. ( dyed to identify it ...also known as MGO in Europe {marked gas oil})) and Green in Ireland for agriculture or heating purposes also has a lot less duty than diesel for road use but it’s basically ordinary diesel with a harmless dye ( all types are mostly low sulphur ). It’s far cheaper in Europe to use MGO in these heaters.
Hi Patrick
Thanks for that valuable feedback.
Yes you guys are very lucky over there.
In Aus, bulk kerosene is about three times the cost of diesel where in years past it was around half the cost.
A 20 ltr container of kerosene in Aus today will cost you around A$90
Cheers. JMcK
Fantastic information. Q: Burning kerosene eliminates any soot at low speeds, would a diesel additive increase the lubricity and protect the fuel pump?
Hi Spencer,
If you are using a product like lighting kerosene as a fuel you need some additional product for lubricity, generally a minimum of 10% diesel will suffice.
Some countries have a high sulfur content heating kerosene, and this sulfur is generally enough for lubrication.
I do not know the diesel additive you refer to, but I advise against using additives like 2stroke oil, as burning oils produce carbon deposits. Think of it, if it smokes when burnt it makes carbon.
Cheers. JMcK
can it be started using heated air intake (grid heater) like a Cummins engine instead of glow plug? plugs are unreliable and relays are cheap.
No, it is not compression ignition. These heaters need a red hot glow plug, (igniter) to start the burn process, a bit like using a match. JMcK
I'm doing my research on these heaters and you pointed out something very important if wanting to run them on KEROSENE. Lubrication - Guess, if I get one, to ALWAYS BURN Diesel. Thank you from the colonies..
Hi Admiral, they appear to run ok if your country produces a high sulfur content commercial kerosene. The sulfur gives lubrication. Otherwise you can run a kerro diesel mix. There is no point in running a kerro diesel mix in some countries, like Australia, apart from cleaning purposes, as our kerro is far more expensive than diesel. J
Thanks john for making this video 👍
😀
Thank you John for that video. It was most informative.
Pleased it was helpful. JMcK
I added Exocet keronsene lubricity additive 1:5000 to uk heating kerosene and ran it in my heater for a week. Seemed to run fine except that the heater temp at maximum power was 219 degrees c. Where as with diesel it is 230. I thought kerosene burns hotter than diesel. Gone back to diesel as it seems hotter but this may just be psychological but the heater defo runs 10 degrees cooler. Any thoughts?
Hi L71
Thanks for the feedback.
I stand to be corrected, but from contributors, I am told that UK heating kerosene is not pure kerosene like lighting kerosene, and in fact has a high sulphur content. The high sulphur content provides adequate pump lubrication without the need for additives.
I am also told heating kerosene is a fraction of the cost of diesel in the UK, so a little loss of heating ability could be accepted. JMcK
Superb! Saved my pump!
Great work, mate.
Thank you. JMcK
In Ireland I know of many people who run diesel cars on kerosene. It's very common as it's about 1/3 the price of diesel. To combat the lubrication issues many will add some two stroke oil into the tank. I know a guy who put 100k miles on an old VW golf TDI using pure kerosene and no two stroke oil. Never had any engine problems at all.
Thanks for that information Eire.
Is the kerosene you use lighting kerosene, or less pure heating kerosene that has a Sulfur content? JMcK
@@johnmck1147 it's heating oil kerosene. Available at pump at many filling stations as people sometimes fill up drums for their home heating tanks.
@@EireTireoghain 👍
I checked the price of Kerosene and diesel here in the Netherlands.
When one wants to buy Kerosene in small amounts (Bottles with 20 liters of Kero) then Diesel at the pump is 3x cheaper.
Due to taxation there is also a diesel fuel for tractors and boats and such. This has a lower taxation and is therefore even cheaper. However, I am not familiar with those prices.
Thank you for the input CD. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 ❤
I have used kerosene on a different type of burner and to solve the wear problem on the pumps we just added 2 stroke oil to the kerosene. We mixed 5lts 2 stroke to 2000lts of kerosene
Hi there, sadly these heaters do not like any oils, including 2 stroke. All oils produce smoke and carbon deposits, which eventually gum up the burner atomisation screens and the burner itself. JMcK
I'm in the UK running my heater on kerosene. The original pump died (zero function) after several months, the replacement pump lasted 24 hours and now has zero function. There is a click sound at h on, but no pumping at all, nothing. Is this a lubrication issue or something else? Many thanks for any advice.
Hi Christian, As I understand it, in the UK you have heating kerro that has some Sulfur content and lightning kerro which is very pure. The pumps need some lubrication, sometimes there is enough Sulfur in heating kerro for this, but if unsure suggest you add 10% to 20% diesel to the kerosene to give piston lubrication. JMcK
That's exactly the info that I was looking for thank you.
Pleased you found it helpful Gordon. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 yes, important information thank you again.
Hi there John , a Taswegian here.....Kero is expensive "diggers" like you know, but is it worth running say a couple of litres at the end of the cold weather just to clean the heater and fuel line through..? As over 4 months or so not used...
Hi Namdor, running a high kerro/diesel mix 90/10, at end of season on a med to high Hz setting for 15 to 30 mins really helps to clean out any accumulated carbon. JMcK
John, your supposition about absolute certain premature failure of a dosing pump run on kerosene, perhaps within days, is based upon a single dosing pump failure years ago? Do I understand that correctly? If so...there seems a serious lack of evidence on this particular idea. Have you run any further tests? What effect does the quality of dosing pump have in the failure? Does it matter is the pump is new or used? Will 100% of the all dosing pumps run on low grade kerosene in fact fail within days? How many days? Thanks for the video.
Hi GH,
This series is to try and give some advice to DIY people who want to install a heater themselves.
These little pumps have no external lubrication and get their lubrication from the diesel. In Australia our lighting kerro is very pure with little to no lubrication properties. In other parts of the world their kerro has a high sulfur content which does provide lubrication, and the pumps run ok.
Yes the age of the pump would have a bearing on its performance.
At this stage I have better things to do than run a destruction test on a diesel heater DIESEL dosing pump using a non standard non lubricating liquid.
Perhaps after I buy a new petrol mower and I see how long it will run without adding any 2stroke oil to the petrol for lubrication.
Thanks for your comments.
Cheers, JMcK
I would suggest mr henrickson debunk the assumption by running his pump on straight kero for a week to see what happens ;-)
Love your content and the info provided. If using kerro to clean (yearly??) running 50/50, do you lose significant lubticity?
Running 90/10, kerro to diesel gives enough lubrication for my operations. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you kind sir.
Where I live in the US kerosene is not easily available however I have access to Jet A fuel which is basically high grade kerosene. I would prefer to use kerosene or a 50/50 kerosene diesel mixture due to the sub zero weather. My question is would the Jet A have enough lubrication to prevent the pump from wearing out? Or would it be best to just stay with #1 diesel.
Hi Larry, Jet A fuel has high sulfur content compared to road diesel. Somewhere around 400 to 900 ppm sulfur compared to about 50 ppm sulfur in road diesel. But each country is slightly different concentrations.
It is totally up to you, but I think it is worth a try to use Jet A on a long term basis. These days you can buy a Chines copy dosing pump for about $20, so it would not break the bank if you wore it out. JMcK
Thankyou John. How can 4 people give a thumbs down.
Thank you Gary. JMcK
I have ran mine on aviation kerosene (Jet A) and it ran great 👍🏻
Hi CV,
They run very well on Jet A, but strongly suggest you add 10% diesel for pump lubrication.
The pump has no external lubrication and uses the diesel to lubricate the little piston.
Cheers. JMcK
Do you think adding a small amount of engine oil to the kerosene could add the lubricity the pump needs? or would it have too sooty of a burn
thank you for the great series, just bought my heater and am trying to learn all the best practices!
Hi, better to use 10 % diesel for lubricity, engine oil in these heaters causes significant carbon build up in the heater. JMcK
You could probably add some two stroke oil as it is low ash
In the states we have low sulfur diesel for motor cars and trucks to lower emissions, I'm assuming this would also injure the metering pumps. Off-road or farm "red" diesel I believe has higher sulfur content. I haven't found a source for 2-K/K2 kerosene where I live, I suppose because of the temperate climate. I believe it's mostly used to mix in trucks to help with waxing in the cold. Aviation fuel might be another option, but likely has its own issues.
Hi Ziggy,
Thanks for the feedback. Diesel is a fuel "oil" regardless of sulfur content. I don't see any issues here with the dosing pump.
Cheers. JMcK
I run my heater on diesel, but once a week I will run it on kerosene for a few hours just to clean any crap out. So far this year diesel is cheaper than it was last winter in Canada. I was wondering about diesel additives ???? Could I add a cap full of the cleaner on every fill-up, and maybe get the same cleaning results as kerosene ????
Hi David, I don't like to comment on things unless I have personally tested the product or the process. There are many different additives on the market, and I have not personally tested them for effectiveness on cleaning these heaters, so I can't offer you an opinion.
If you use one during your coming winter I would appreciate some feedback. JMcK
Great video very useful.👍
Another good video on kerosene and more. If you mount your dosing pump slightly below your supply tank, you will have NO air bubbles. You have to ask yourself where the air is coming from. Sucking fuel up from a tank, like the main tank on your van may contribute to air in the system. These heaters dont seem to mind, as Johns video indicates. I believe if it is bled properly before start up, you will have NO air in the system.
15 seconds priming seems to do not harm at all at startup. A new chinese diesel and water heater has recently been produced and it has a different approach to starting it primes the fuel into the heater with the pump running at high speed for about 10 seconds before ignition and it seems to start up in around 30 seconds which is much faster than many others taking 2 mins or longer.
@@oojimmyflip well it would likely start with a large amount of smoke! Not appealing
Why don't you mix in a little bit of Veggie oil with your kerosene that should help lubricate the pump correct and should be thinned out by the kerosene what's your thoughts on this
Hi there, the issue with all oil products is they do not burn clean and leave soot deposits in the burner. Soot buildup is the problem child with these heaters. Better to add some diesel to the kerro. If your country produces a high sulfur content commercial kerosene, it may have enough lubricity to stop pump damage. J
@@johnmck1147 Do you have high sulfur commercial grade kerosene available in your area? I'd be interested to know what sort of difference you found if you tested it.
Phantom309
The common Kerosene in Aus is low sulfur lighting kerosene, and it has very poor lubrication. I have heard in parts of Europe high sulfur commercial kerosene has been used ok in these diesel heaters. With a Chinese dosing pump so cheap to replace these days, it could be worth a try for you to try commercial kerosene, if that is what you wish to try. JMcK
-hi well done , so in the 10L tank they come with about how much diesel would you want to mix in with the kerosene ,, Thanks ..
Hi Bill, it all depends on the sulfur content and lubricity of the kerosene in your location, and whether or not your pump has to suck or lift up the fuel. Without knowing those details I would probably start with 2 litres of diesel in 8 litres of kerosene and see how that goes. J
Can you use a higher sulfur diesel like home heating fuel oil? Any ill affects doing so? Thank You for your in depth knowledge and time.
Hi Sammy, These heaters can use lots of different types of fuel, however the greater the “oil” content the more carbon produced and the more frequent the heater service. JMcK
Good stuff John, I enjoyed the Maggie interaction.
Thanks Daryl.. JMcK
Great vid John thanks mate, Seeya Rob........the kids (magpies) always drop around at the wrong time don't they !! haha.
Your welcome Rob. JMcK
Anyone know where I can buy some Kerosine in Scotland Uk ??
It’s been minus degrees celsius for a couple weeks just now & I been running my heater for 3 winters with weather like this OR worse,, my little heater is a must have for me ANY help or pointers would be really appreciated ✌🏼
Hey John. Thanks for the heads up! You're the first TH-camr I've watched to address the potential for Kero to kill a pump. What Kero/diesel mix should we be looking at to avoid any pump problems? Kerosene here in the UK is significantly cheaper than red diesel so a mix would be the way I'd like to go. Thanks.
Hi Jim,
As I understand it, you have both lighting and heating kerro in the UK. Heating kerro generally has a high sulphur content and is probably ok on its own.
Lightning kerro is much purer and needs about 10% diesel for lubrication.
A kerro / diesel mix of 90/10 should solve all issues. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Hey John. Thanks for getting back. I get kerro from the pump so I'd imagine it's the lowest grade fuel. Lighting kerro hugely more expensive so won't be using that. I'll try the 90/10 and see how I get on. Thanks once again...
I drive an old Japanese diesel van (1992 Delica). As now in Canada all our diesel is LSD, I was advised to add lubricity agent to my fuel, which I do at every fill. When I was installing my heater, I recall reading that you should not burn diesel that has additives in these, so I run my heater from a separate diesel tank and use LSD diesel for the heater. So the message that I am taking away here is that I have been doing the opposite of what I should be doing. And that is perhaps why recently my heater seems to have stopped working, and as far as I can tell, it is not getting fuel. Sounds like a new doser pump should be my first troubleshooting effort, and from now on I should add lubricity to my fuel tank for the heater.
no need to , as long as it is CLEAN diesel
@@pauls466 You're right. Before Russia invaded Ukraine, I had given up on my 2 Chinese units, and ordered a Webasto (German company Webasto spent 10 million Euro and built a facility there in 2017, (which resulted in Russian sellers offering their heaters online). I bet they regret that now!). I feed it the same fuel as my van, and so far there have been no problems associated with the altitude or temps it sometimes has to operate in (2100m and -30C). Sometimes the fuel has additive, others not, does not seem to affect it. The upside to this was, I was able to use the same mounting holes, lines, and cabinet I had originally built for the Chinese units, which ultimately made the changeover a lot faster and easier.
I wonder how so many people are using kerosene for years without issues. Maybe it's the higher sulfur kerosene you mentioned that's available in the US? I'm switching my Espar D5 over to a dedicated 5-gallon kerosene tank so I'm trying to make sure I can protect my fuel pump. Maybe a lubricant additive? Or a mix of diesel and kerosene that runs cleaner yet still protects the pump?
Hi Money pit,
These heaters don't like oil additives like two stroke oil. Lots of carbon produced.
Commercial kerosene in many countries has a high Sulfur content that provides lubrication.
If using very pure lighting kerosene it is better to add 10% diesel to the kerosene for lubrication. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks so much. I have no idea what I'm doing, just trying to heed the warnings of diesel clogging up the Espars. I'll go with your 90/10 mix being that I believe our gas stations sell 1-K.
Hi John,
I have a question:
I would like to run my chinese air heater on pure lighting kero (because of the lower smell of the fluid and exhaust gases).
Due to the lubrication fact you mentioned I am thinking about mixing the kero with some two stroke engine oil.
Do you think that would be sufficient to prevent the wear of the pump?
BR Wilke
Hi Wilke,
All oils, including quality 2 stroke oils burn dirty and creat carbon residue. Put some diesel, kerro, and oil on a rag and compare.
Better to mix with diesel for lubrication. I suggest you start at an 80:20 kerro diesel mix for low sulfur lighting kerro.
Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Hi John,
Thx for your fast answer. I shoud have been reading all other questions/answers before...
I will try using lamp oil with higher sulphur and stock a replace pump in my toolbox.
Cheers Wilke
Thanks John.
Your welcome Paolo. JMcK
Thanks for your video. I want to run my diesel heater on kerosene because I filled my tank up in my van and spilled diesel fuel and had to use a degreaser and water.
I've been using kerosene in my parts washer for years because it's cheaper than parts cleaning solution and it evaporates.
I can buy kerosene from an actual pump in the US where I live . Last time I bought some it was US$ 3.00 for a US gallons or 3.8 liters. Diesel is around $2.79 a US gallon to give you a perspective.
On the flip side I'm curious if these machines would run on a mixture of used motor oil and kerosene or diesel .
Have you tried that?
Hi James,
As stated in the video these heaters run very well on kerosene, but need a bit of diesel (10%) for lubrication.
They will run on a used motor oil mixture. - for a short while.
Burning any oil causes lots of carbon build up which rapidly clogs the burner and atomisation screens, causing heater flame out.
Cheers. JMcK
I just switched to car gasoline using a pump meant for the eberspacher gasoline model. The heater lights up, but doesn't burn continuously, it instead pulses. After a while, it shuts down with error code 08.
These Chinese diesel heaters are not designed to run on gasoline (petrol) . JMcK
John, when The voltage drops below its operating pf 10.5 V, will the unit safely shut down.?
Yes Keith
@@johnmck1147 thanks, I am assuming the shutdown would be automatic prior to failure and damage to the heaters circuit board.
John Another issue: I plan to exchange the single outlet to a four outlet adapter consisting of four 42mm od/35mm id ducts. Because the initial expelled heat seems to be around 210+F, what flexible duct material and accompanying insulation would work best for ducting under and behind my RV cabinets. I am thinking of 1.25 electrical aluminum flexible conduit, wrapped with some fiber insulation? to duct from 6" to 8 feet under and behind drawers.
However I did use muffler wrap for the exhaust to increase efficiency and help protect 8 inches as I passed through my storage area to the outside of my rig before putting muffler (youtube indicated that if you need to extend the exhaust pipe length, more pipe should be between the muffler and unit than from muffler and end of exhaust pipe, and the installer should take NOTE THE DRAIN HOLE IN THE MUFFLERS FACE DOWN!).
BTW your information videos are invaluable to anyone installing a diesel heater. PS I contacted several 8K Ebay sellers and they could not tell me the difference specs between 8K and 5K heaters! what a scam. THANKS again as I have purchased another one and I will be constructing a portable self reliant unit with internal battery (thus the question regarding automatic shutdown), fuel cell, and attached solar panel, all in one. I will include usb charging capabilities, and external battery hookup to use if necessary.
Yes Keith, the heater will go into shutdown mode at around 10.5 volts. All will be ok unless the battery suddenly collapses when the glow plug switches on and draws around 9 to 10 amps.
Re the outlet pipes, are you talking 1.25 ins of flexible aluminum? If so, I think that is too small. Narrow ducting causes a lot of flow restriction. If you can't easily source the correct heater tubing, you could use aluminum vent ducting from a hardware store, or even try PVC pipe as ducting.
I have tested 90 mm PVC domestic drain piping connected directly to the heater, and it worked well, but that was for testing. In practice I would not connect the PVC to the heater without at least 1500 of correct heat resistant ducting in front. However if in an enclosed space the PVC will soften.
In normal operation the heater will shut down with an outlet air temperature of around 125 deg C. The PVC I tested was able to handle that temperature, but softened. In an accident overheat, the fan is stopped and that greatly elevated air temperature does not reach the PVC ducting with the 1500 mm of flexible correct ducting as a joiner.
The PVC is easily to route with bends, joiners, and t pieces. It does get hot and can soften so would need wrapping in inclosed spaces.
However better to use the proper ducting.
Good luck, JMcK
Hi Keith, since I wrote this I did more special testing with PVC. I inserted a 500 mm test length of PVC pipe in my boat heater outlet about 500 mm from the heater outlet. Running the heater at max heat and in an enclosed space the PVC softened. For install and forget peace of mind, I would suggest not to use PVC. JMcK
John McK 47 that is why am thinking of using electrical conduit aluminum flexible as it can he bent and directed as needed I guess if I either wrap it with Muffler wrap or some sort of insulation product that would help protect the cabinets in which it goes Under and around. have you found any good insulation products for such a project? Thanks
It'll run on straight kerosene but not for long and it'll burn the pumps out because there's no lubricant in kerosene as there is in diesel
Is is possible to do without the pump and mount the fuel tank higher than the heater and use gravity to feed 100% kerosene?(as in a tiny home install)
No Scott. Sorry.
The computer control board gets the right fuel air mix for each heat setting by matching the fan speed, to the number of pump pulses.
Cheers, JMcK
It's kind of hit-or-miss to find inexpensive kerosene when traveling, so I'm thinking of just using a low-sulphur kerosene mixed with diesel for maintenance purposes only, as a way to occasionally "clean" the unit. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this - namely, how frequently would you do this, what mix ratio to use and how long to run it for a proper cleaning? Much appreciation in advance if you have the time to offer your thoughts! 😊
Hi CP
That is fine. The frequency is very dependent on your install, hours used and your operation practices. With a good install without restrictions and proper operation you can go years without a carbon clean.
For preventative maintenance, keeping the above points in mind, and the fact I do not know your usage hours, I would suggest for med to high usage, a kerro/diesel mix of 90/10 , run for one hour at 4 to 5 Hz, at season end be a starting point for your consideration.
Regards. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks so much for your reply! And many "thank you's" for this series - it's quite impressive how thorough you've been in describing the operation of these units. I live above the 45th parallel in the U.S., and winters can get quite cold. There's a chance this could become my primary heating source all winter. I can imagine racking up 2000 hours in a single season to heat a small travel trailer. My intention is to install it in such a way that it's quick to swap out, and to purchase a 2nd unit as a "backup", so that I can swap out a failing unit to clean/repair/replace with little disruption to heating. I greatly appreciate all the safety, installation, operation and maintenance tips you've provided in this series, and will be following your advice closely.
Cats Pajamas
Hi CP,
Redundancy is a smart practice. Having a spare heater in your situation is a very good idea.
If you are in such a cold environment I assume you use winter diesel. However adding some kerosene, perhaps 25%, may help prevent cold weather gelling issues as well as soot reduction.
But our winters here are very mild by comparison and I have not personally tested a kerro diesel mix in real world freezing conditions, to get accurate real world data.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 OK, thank you!! Yes, they switch over to winter diesel in November. But maybe I'll also add a percentage of kerosene regularly (20-25%) in the coldest months whenever I have convenient access to it. Thanks so much for your advice, I value it greatly!!
Really good to know!
Hi John, thanks for the great series of videos. I have a 5kW heater. The default lowest setting is 1.2Hz. If I am using kero (80:20 kero:diesel) for a cleaner burn, am I safe to run the heater this low and not risk sooting
up? I’ll run it on high for a few minutes before shutdown if needed, but 1.2Hz puts out plenty of heat. Thanks
Hi Bruce, that should work fine if you have a good install (without too many restrictions in exhaust or combustion air intake) . Enjoy the warmth, JMcK
John McK 47 thanks John. I appreciate the quick reply.
John Mck, what you class as lighting kerosene out there is commonly known a parrafin here in the British Isles/ UK. As you say this parrafin oil has virtually no lubricity factor whatsoever. A drop of parrafin rubbed between the index finger and thumb has a sort of squeaky dryness quality to it. Diesel and heating kerosene both feel oily and slippery by comparison.
Hi Howard, thanks for the feedback from the UK.
@@johnmck1147 did you see the other post I made about when the visible air bubbles dissapear in the clear fuel lines and how it is a firm indicator that the atomisation gauze is getting very blocked with carbon? I have even seen the pump produce high enough pressure in the lines to jack the clear pipe out of the rubber joint piece before now.
Howard Osborne
Yes Howard, and I sent you a reply. JMcK
So is there a good substitute mix at kind regards uk here 👍
Thanks for the knowledge 😊 ... i changed my pump with a custom one (diaphragm pump) and now i can run my heater with rocket fuel if i want ... 🤪
👍😳
what pump are u using.. does it pulse the same and deliver the same as the standard with same results etc ??
Have you tried adding some low ash two stroke oil to increase lubricity to the kerosene ?
As most people know, burning two stroke oil makes more smoke than a four stroke engine.
All “oils” make smoke.
Burning all oils produces carbon.
You can use two stroke oil, but it will make carbon deposits and the heater will need more regular servicing.
It is better to use 10% diesel in the kerro than oil.
If kerro is high sulphur commercial, not pure lighting kerro you don't really need any additives for lubricant. JMcK
Wbat would happwn if you add marvel mystery oil to the diesel? Would that be ok snd or help lubricate it?
Hi Anthony,
First you do not need to add anything to the diesel to aid lubrication. Diesel is a lubricant.
As for adding marvel mystery oil to the kerosene, I can not say as I am reluctant to comment on anything I have not personally tested.
What I can say is don't burn “oils” in these heaters. “Oils”, that make smoke, like 2 stroke oil, are bad in these heaters as they make excessive carbon. They give you lubrication but also give you excessive carbon and maintenance issues.
Cheers JMcK
Thank you, sir.
Very informative. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge. Hopefully my Walmart kerosene here in USA has enough lubricity. I will probably add a mixture of diesel to be on the safe side
Your welcome LN. JMcK
If your heater is tuned right it will clean on diesel. Diesel is so cheap in USA. And if you want to run diesel or paraffin you will be just fine. John's pump was faulty or his fuel was dirty. These pumps are also used for gasoline, which is a very dry fuel with little to no lubrication. You can pump water in them.
Good video, would mixing a small amount of unused cooking oil with the Kerosene solve the lubrication problem?
Hi Jason, better to use a diesel/kerro mix. Oils will work, but the issue with oils in these little heaters is oils burnt leave large amounts of soot byproduct. It is soot and carbon that causes maintenance issues with these heaters.
Depending on where you live, some countries have a commercial kerosene, as distinct from what Aussies would call a lighting kerro. These commercial kerosenes sometimes contain a high sulfur content. It the sulfur level is high enough that can sometimes provide adequate lubrication. JMcK
Can’t find c2 kerosene here in the US for some reason. Can I use c3 marine kerosene or is the sulfur content too high? Thanks in advance.
I have no personal experience with your Marine 3 kerosene in the US.
Is it for lighting or heating?
If for lighting it is normally very pure and will require about 10% diesel in the kerro to provide lubrication for the pump.
If heating, the kerro will generally have some sulphur content and this is generally enough to provide pump lubrication.
If it does not work out, on worry, the pumps are very cheap to replace. JMcK
Thanks for your reply. I can’t find 2C kerosene anywhere so I’m thinking about a 70/30 blend of diesel and kerosene respectively for fast start up of the diesel heater along with some lubrication from the oil and then keep a spare pump handy just in case. Does. This mixture sound reasonable to you or should I alter it?@@johnmck1147
Hi Ben, as mentioned previously I have no experience with your kerosene, but in Australia with our very pure lighting kerro, I personally only need to run a 90/10 …..Kerro/diesel mix. Cheers. JMcK
Thanks for the info. I’ll use the same mixture that you’re using. Have a great 2024@@johnmck1147
Very handy thanks. Here in the UK at the moment, Diesel is about 85p per litre, whereas Kerosene is about 22p per litre, so Kero is certainly more attractive, but it's a shame it's not good for the little pump. Maybe a mix would be best for me :) Thanks again!
Hi Mr A,
At that cost difference I would be running a 90/10 kerro/diesel mix, and getting a cleaner burn. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John. That's really handy to know, and it'll save some good money! I've really enjoyed your videos, and envy your 40 degrees! Here in Wales at the moment, it's a good day if it reaches 5 without driving wind and rain.
The Amazing Adventures of Miles
👍
Informative video, just about to order one of these and have a large quantity of heating oil to use if possible, would the unit work with a gravity fed tank high up or does it require a fixed higher pressure ? cheers and thanks again.
Hi NM,
First, what do you mean by heating oil in your country?
If it is kerosene that is ok. If it is oily diesel or similar that will not work. These heaters will burn anything - for a while. But any “oily fuel causes rapid carbon buildup in the heater, and then it will not work.
A gravity fuel system is ok, but you must install a fuel shut off valve before the pump and turn off when not in use otherwise fuel can leak past pump seals and flood heater. JMcK
Thanks John, v helpful - I have since watched a number of your excellent videos and now understand the role of the pump, simple but clever. I can see many of the people who have similar videos on YT have also watched your channel as everyone now mentions the infamous 'green' fuel hose along with other bits too.
Yup, heating fuel is Kerosene, point taken about lubing the small pump, have some 2 stroke low ask oil if needed to add a drop or two, I may purchase a spare pump though just in case.
Thanks again.
👍
👍
Where do I get a replacement oil pump are they all the same ?
Just search on line for “fuel pump chinese diesel air heater” there are lots of suppliers. It is the same pump for 2Kw to 8Kw heaters. Just make sure you order correct voltage of your system. They come in 12V and 24 V. JMcK
I'm located in Canada and I heat my home with furnace oil. I believe this is also the same as #2 fuel. I've heard that this is much the same as diesel but at a way cheaper cost. Wondering if you know if it can be used or not in these diesel heater. Furnace oil is located at many gas stations and at this time the price is $1.50 per liter compared to diesel at $2.50 per liter. Anyone know if this will work or if they have tried it yet.
Hi Steve, I do not know about Canadian furnace oil, but these heaters will burn almost anything.
I personally would try it and see. Perhaps another viewer can give some feedback.
Steve, If you do try it, I would love some feedback on how it went. JMcK
Great video ... all of them on these heaters. Question these pumps are cheap , would it make sense to buy a spare one to run a cleaning cycle once a year or whatever interval that would be appropriate?
Hi GF, not sure what you mean with "cleaning cycle". If you have a fuel filter in the fuel line before the pump there is nothing in the fuel system to clean.
The real maintenance with these heaters is carbon build up in the burner chamber and the atomising screens. You can't clean these out by pumping fuel through the heater.
Thanks for the positive comments. JMcK.
John McK 47 what I meant was switch the pump and run kerosene periodically to clean burner... I thought you had said that was a plus of using kerosene...
G F
Hi GF, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, running a high kerro mix through these heaters can be a good end of season maintenance program. So I assume you would have one fuel tank running diesel and a second fuel tank with a high kerro/diesel mix, with two pumps and two fuel lines. Yes, you could do that, but you would need a y valve in the fuel lines to change tanks and a switch in electrical system to change pumps.
Perhaps it may be simpler to just have the one pump and a y valve in the pick up line to change tanks.
Because the dosing pumps from China are so cheap, it is good practice to carry a spare.
Cheers, JMcK
PLEASE Tell How To Order The Heaters & Who From , Who Do We Trust
What do these heaters draw for amps current when running on low?
About 0.8 amps to about 1.0 amps, depending on Hz setting and fan speed. JMcK
Thank you. So helpful... but why would an Australian need a heater? It always hot and sunny there. ;)
Hi TechyBen,
In winter in Aus we actually do get some snow. True.
Anyway, that is what I am told. Never actually seen it myself.
Even where I live in Qld, with the most beautiful winter days we can go below 0°C at night, so a heater producing lovely dry heat can make life very comfortable. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks, also seems to make sense if it's rare you get cold weather. Why fit central heating if it's for one week of the year?
I've setup one of these temporarily in my boat, and a few here in the UK have them as permanent winter heating in their boats for when they don't have time for the log burning stove. :)
Good to know when one is in a situation where Diesel is not available (had that once or twice). What about gravety feeding ? Thank you.
Hi Bernd, you need the pump. It is married to the controller and hence to the fan and sends out the correct number of fuel pulses for a set heat setting. You also need the pulse force to push the fuel through the atomisation screens. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you. It started to dawn on me while watching the next few episodes of yours. I also got a supposed 8kW unit, shame I did not see your series before purchase. Well, at leest I know the real values... Thank you again - really good stuff you publicised, time well spend in a generous way!
Wonder whether you could add some 2 stoke oil into the kerosene to lubricate ?
Hi Hasger,
Yes 2 stroke oil will work, but I advise against as it creates smoke and carbon when burnt, and hence more frequent maintenance.
Better to add around 10% diesel to the kerro. JMcK
what kind of birds are making that noise?
Can we cook them with the heater? LOL just kidding.
Hi Tedzilla, the birds are Australian Magpie, and Australian Butcher Bird. Normally Magpies are very agressive when nesting and when they have young, but the local male nesting in my trees for some 10 years now has never attacked me, and flies down every morning to say hello. - And get a treat. Please don't cook them. 🙀
@@johnmck1147 I"m sorry. I didn't know they were "yard pals" LOL. I have rescued many wild animals....luv them all.
Tedzilla
Good for you Tedzilla. JMcK
Hi John I have now got my heater up and running in cold wet france lol, I'm using a power pack from the mains electric and works very well but one question is that we have a few power cuts here and was wondering if it would kill my heater?
Hi Khris,
As stated in the videos, when you turn the heater off it goes through a shutdown cycle that can last some minutes. The heater runs down and the fuel pump stops, the glow plug comes on to help burn off excess diesel and then the fan continues to run until the metal heat exchanger cools down sufficiently.
If the heater is turned off at the mains the cool down cycle can not happen, and the heat in heat exchanger is not dissipated. The higher the pre shutdown heat setting of the heater, the higher the damage from the contained heat.
You are unlikely to have a fire issue, but unless you can quickly open the heater case and manually fan the heater, you will most certainly melt and destroy the ECU, which is mounted on the front of the heat exchanger. You could also destroy the heater fan, and even melt parts of the plastic case.
Perhaps if you are in an area of regular power outages, you should consider running your heater off a small battery connected to a small mains charger. A small motorbike battery connected to a 5 amp automatic battery charger should work just fine. Because the battery charger is permanently connected to the battery it should be an automatic type.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you John will look at this and see about getting it done,, we have 32 sec heating oil would I need to add anything to it or can it be used as is,, many thanks for your help with this,,
Khris A
Hi Khris, I do not know that heating oil so I can't advise you. But most heating oils have a good sulfur content and can be used as is. You could add 10% diesel to the heating oil if you are concerned, or you could try it as it is. If in the future you have issues with the pump running on straight heating oil you could buy a new pump, the ones from China are not too expensive.
If you need to buy a replacement pump, there are many suppliers and I list just one below. You also may consider buying a pump now, and keeping it as a spare.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Car-Air-Diesel-Parking-Oil-Fuel-Pump-For-Eberspacher-Universal-Heater-Set/363027948853?hash=item548626e535:g:gsYAAOSw5FVe8FNt
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 your a star mate,, thanks for the information, can't believe how economical they are to run, it was far easier to calculate the dosage and work out the amount of fuel it uses,, thanks once again for the down under info 👍👍
Khris A
👍
I know I'm late to the to the comment section but what ratio between diesel and k1 kerosene is safe for your pump and the fuel freezing factor?
Hi James, anywhere up to 80/20 or 90/10 kerro/diesel mix seems ok . JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks for your reply, I think I will go with the 80/20 to be safe. Love your videos they are as informative as they can be.
Thanks John for giving us lots of information regarding these heaters, I live in france and parrifn heaters are everywhere and most shopping centers sell the heating parrifn in 20ltr containers, my feeling is that they are low in sulfur so would an idea to add a diesel mix? The other question is that if people are running the heaters from their fuel tank and are driving in very low temperatures will this foul up the heaters over time ? Many thanks
Hi Khris,
I do not know the lubricity of heating paraffin in France, but generally heating paraffin has some sulphur (giving lubrication to the pump) while lighting paraffin (used in kerosene lamps) is very pure. If unsure suggest you add around 5% to 10% diesel to the paraffin.
Re the second question, generally cold areas sell "winter" diesel in winter to lessen the gelling problems of diesel in freezing conditions. If the vehicle engine runs ok, then the heater should run ok. If you find yourself getting heater burn issues, suggest you run some kerro through the heater occasionally to remove any gel deposits.
I can not be real helpful here as I do not have any real personal experience of diesel gelling in these heaters in freezing cold conditions. Our winters can get down to -2°C to -4°C in the mornings but then warm up to 10°C to 15°C during the day. In Queensland our winters are like a Canadian or Northern European Summers. We are very spoilt here. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you for the information and giving your time to do this,, one last question is what do you think is the maximum that I can extend the exhaust pipe as setting up the heater requires me run a pipe of the same size for about 8 feet,,
Many thanks for your time and help,,
Khris A
Hi khris, What! You use feet measurements in France? (Just kidding)
A 8 foot exhaust of the same diameter will be fine if it ascends. May be ok if it runs horizontal, but will most likely cause you issues if it trends downwards. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 ha ha yes us men need things to sound bigger ,,, thanks for the quick reply and help regarding my heater ,,many thanks
20ltrs kerosene 2 litres veg oil blend is what I hear, can this be verified?
I'm just starting this video but I've heard a lot of people say they run kerosene in theirs because it's the cleaner running fuel. I guess I'll find out the truth from your video in a second.
Correct. JMcK
the uk government will be making tax exempt red diesel hard to get for most people from next year.. so will be giving heating kerosene. diesel mix a try...what do you think of those new silent pumps ??
Thank you for that information.
Do you have a video on how to use the Blue colour controller, like the one sat on your bench in this blog?
I've just brought my first Chinese heater and it's come with no instructions!
Hi MyJon, I have done a basic controller video, but I have not done a detailed video on the controllers. If you do a TH-cam search there are are some controller videos on other channels.
Sorry. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you. Yes I've found posts for the other 2 controllers. This Blue and silver one seems less popular! I am now managing to understand how to use it, as it seems similar to the other two. I'm sure I'll get there in the end.
MyJon64
👍
Hi John could you do a video on how to work the control unit
Hi Andrew, I get asked this occasionally, but there are already quite a number of uTube videos on this subject. JMcK
Great videos. I installed one in my RV and although the temp at the vent is over 150°, it isn't warming the camper as I hoped. Would it hurt anything to add a fan to push more are through the heater, to try and get better circulation?
Hi James, yes you could install a fan to circulate the air better.
However, you should be getting a good volume of hot air coming out the vent, so check to see there are no restrictions in the air intake and air delivery side of the heater.
You do not say what size your van is, whether it is insulated, and what the outside air temp is. I also wonder if you have a small 2 kw heater rather than the more common 5 kw heater. A 5 kw heater should keep an insulated, average size van toasty in below 0 deg Celsius temperatures. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 it is a 30ft 5th wheel, with one big slide out. The heater is supposed to be 3kw. I ran a 4 inch insulated duct off the unit and separated into 3 2 inch ducts. Outside was 24°f and inside held steady at 60°f. I was thinking of adding a fan on the return side to push more air through. I want to make sure that it wouldn't cool the heater too much and cause a combustion problem. I can't seem to find cfm ratings on these heaters. With everything else in place, it shouldn't be a problem to switch to a 8kw size.
james w
Hi James,
What you are looking for is the difference in temperature from the air going into the heater and the air coming out of the heater, this heated outlet air then mixes with your van air and raises the temperature. Forcing more air over the heat exchanger would not affect the combustion process, but would lower the outlet air temperature. However even though the outlet air is of lower temperature there is more of it. Net result, really no change.
The Chinese do not make a real 8 KW heater at this stage, some sellers advertise 8Kw and sell at a premium, but they are just selling standard 5 KW heaters. See my video on this.
You could slot in a 5KW heater if you wish to increase the heat output in your van, or if you want to be really toasty, and have the space, install a seperate heater, so you have 2 heaters. Real cold nights you run both heaters. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 It is awesome that today's technology let's a guy from the United States get great advice from a knowledgeable person from around the world. You have done a great job with your videos. I appreciate the time you put into making them and replying to my message. Because of space, I believe I will try a 5k unit next. Thank you sir.
james w
Your welcome James. Good luck. JMcK
Very Interesting...... 👍