The worse thing about the Roman Experiment? The fact that WWE knew PERFECTLY what the problem was. When they did the Roman vs Cena feud, Cena evicerated Roman by saying exactly what the fans have said for years. THEY KNEW and still refused to change it despite their entire brand suffering as a result.
@@MaximumRabbit Cena worked cause his promo skills are great. Was he bland at times? Absolutely. But he could still inject something great into it with his mic skills. Roman for the longest time couldn’t. He needed heyman, arguably the best promo of all time, to carry him. Think about that
@@jessedellross3245 This is because Roman was never meant to be a talker. He's not really a great promo cutter, I look back at his 2014(?) promo of him calling himself the "head of the table" it just was not it. But that's because unlike Cena, his talent was in his wrestling and his body. Even in the Shield he wasn't the main talker. That was WWE's biggest mistake with him, trying to treat him, in all ways, like Cena.
The single biggest mistake with roman Reigns was not turning him heel after beating taker at mania. It was the ultimate heel move and he cut the best heel promo the next night. Why they didn’t turn him there and then is beyond me
That makes sense, but I’m still kinda annoyed they didn’t turn him after 32 - he had no idea about a Tribal Chief, but he had a lot of raw charisma back then also.
To be fair that would be like giving in. They were still lumbering along deep in the Roman experiment at WM33 (because that curse carried over to stinking up the main event of 34 so clearly WWE's priorities were still "we pick who you like," despite that already not working for the past two years). WWE SHOULD have given in because that would make the show more watchable but obviously we know how they (or rather Vince-controlled WWE) operate.
I agree. It’s like they wanted to work against their own goals. How could anyone brag about ending the career of someone everyone loves and still be a baby face? It’s almost as stupid as the time they turned Alberto Del Rio face, then had him run over Santa Clause!
I remember when the shield blew up and relating so hard to Dean for being pissed and psychotic when Roman just calmly went, “why Seth” in the calmest voice why ambrose was having an aneurism next to him and that was just the beginning. Can’t believe it took a pandemic for them to book him right 🙄
If they played with that it could have been an interesting as well. Have Ambrose be full of hit blooded rage who's constantly trying to get at rollins at every chance. Then you can contrast it with Roman who's seems more collected and calm, then have him pick the perfect opportunity to strike playing into a more tranquil type of rage where its less in your face. Basically playing hot blooded anger vs a more cold revenge.
@@cjstanky Having Dean going psycho but having Reigns with a more controlled anger making Seth think he's letting him off then striking when he least expected it would have been better than Reigns apparently not caring that one of his best friends had betrayed him.
@Xehanort10 I know I'm 2 years late, but even if they had Roman go full Luke Skywalker it could have worked. Dean out for revenge, while roman refuses to believe his friend actually went bad. Then have Roman slowly realise that seth is gone, and have a triple threat at mania
One of the biggest problems I saw was how he seemingly always won on the weekly shows but when brock was champion, he could never beat him. So his wins on raw mean less because he can't beat the champion and the guys reigns is beating are hurt more by their losses since they were losing to the guy who can't get the job done. Such an odd situation that time period was.
It was the same with his feud with Braun. He was winning nothing matches but then during each PPV vs Braun, except the one before Mania, he lost. Every single time. From New year that year until survivor series Roman won 2 PPV matches. His first vs Braun and then at Mania vs The Undertaker. Then it was constantly losing until the Shield reunion.
@@enigmaskull3495 nothing, but trying to understand the WWE higher ups thought process is like trying to make sense of a magic eye picture while blindfolded
@@enigmaskull3495 In the UK, babyfaces are refered to as blue eyes, for some reason, someone at WWE thought the best way to get Roman cheered was to give him blue eyes to be more relatable.
@@ArcaneAzmadi I mean, Trips is called the Cerebral Assassin for a reason. Imagine the mind games between the two to build up the match. I recognize Sting is as good at the mind games as either guy but with the backstage connection the two share with how Bray was brought in to NXT by Hunter, that match could've been special. A student beating the master so to speak.
I remember clearly I was at that wrestlemania as soon as the ref counted 3 when Roman pinned Taker I said to myself “they finally did it.... they just killed Roman as a babyface”
@@ryankeefe6222 Plus his "This is my yard now." after smirking through the boos the night before for roughly 5 minutes, even his "I got them eating out of my hand gesture." were pure heel. You could tell he was enjoying this heel mode he had that night.
@@faelirra dude I’ll tell you how pissed people where after that there were about 5-6 drunk people while we were leaving the stadium trying to figure out where Roman’s car was
The “Hulk Hogan” problem is something i 100 percent agree with it’s good to have a top babyface but do you know what’s better? Having multiple over babyfaces on top like in the attitude era with Austin Rock Undertaker etc
Can't help but feel for Roman. Seems like too nice a guy to have the last handful of years of his career be as messy as they have. Imagine if this tribal chief thing started years ago.
I almost think people WANT to like him but the casting was just so poor at the moment when they could have struck at its hottest. I've said before I always thought he was a better candidate to be the one to break up The Shield because he was the most unknown member of the group. He was very strong but generally had the least personality, keeping to himself and being the big guy of the group (he won the tag championships with Seth and Seth was clearly the more vibrant of the pair). So giving him a chance to come out on his own by stabbing everyone in the back and aligning himself in the name of money, opportunity, and protection by The Authority would really ring true to his character (someone who never revealed what was actually on his mind, tagging along with these guys and riding their coattails, then picking the perfect moment to make his own name by throwing them under the bus). Someone who recognized that The Shield could only take him so far and was just waiting for the right time to pull the trigger. John Cena started off as a heel before his rise to the top that culminated at WrestleMania 21 (not to say pushing Cena the way they did through the mid-2000s was a good idea either but at least he had that initial spark that compelled people to him and won them over through his chase to the championship). There was nothing wrong with giving Roman that same journey--starting as a corporately chosen heel champion who looked down on everyone in his way even though he couldn't see his own role as a tool to people who just wanted to protect their power until he opens his eyes to what and who he's fighting for, lashes out and breaks from them, then goes out in a huge main event match against Triple H and ascends the mountain.
Immediately after, he got into that Braun Strowman feud that was actually pretty good. Unfortunately, it unintentionally turned Braun into the biggest babyface in the company. The two biggest pops were him spending an entire Raw beating up Roman (I’M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!!), and then emerging from an ambulance the Raw after their ambulance match at Great Balls of Fire (awful name, not-so-bad show) to beat up Roman some more.
I don't know. I think it's just example of Adam trying too hard to be funny. He's funnier when he isn't doing the awkward, reputious Ricky Gervais/Conan O'Brien schtick.
2:55 - I remember a friend of mine at the time comparing post-Shield Reigns to the cool jock in high school - then when The Shield split up they all "graduated", and Ambrose and Rollins went on to college. They matured, started listening to different music, and started dressing differently. Then they came home after graduation to find Reigns, still listening to the same music and wearing the same clothes as four years ago, high-fiving and acting like he was still 17 years old.
Maybe because no one knows how to carry a big company like WWE today. Put any of the mid carders that people wanna see in the main event as the posterboys and they will fail miserably. In my opinion there's only two current wrestlers that can really carry the compnay and they are Roman and Drew.
@@candyhochstmann4632 It's actually the other around but okay. When he was given heavily scripted promos they sucked. He has more creative freedom right now and he is the main reason why Smackdown is so good.
@@kev_whatev It’s an almost good line. The alliteration, and the way Roman delivered it without tripping over said alliteration, was nice and all, but it’s a line that did not fit Roman’s strengths as a character. And that’s the crucial issue. It’s a Cena line, but delivered by Roman.
@@jacobadams4314 Because in the early parts of his face run WWE had Roman, who they were trying to portray as a badass quote Looney Tunes and tell the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. They had him call Sheamus a tater tot at one point too. As well as say "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am the giant's teeth are down his throat" in complete seriousness.
And right now no matter how great I think Reigns is, the WWE have already done irreparable damage to themselves and him. He’s doing some career character work and has finally seemed to find it. Reigns is the biggest star in the company through sheer attrition alone. 5 years of fighting your own fans to get this guy over in the most inauthentic way possible. In the process they had to undercut any other potential star that could equal or surpass him, became creatively bankrupt, and have lost about half their fan base in the time.
The last two points sum up why WWE has been so bad in recent years, Live attendence is dropping and crowds aren't as invested because we get burned over and over for trying to emotionally invest in people who aren't "Part of the plan".
@@sertorrhenclegane I know how that goes. I haven't watched in years but still follow what's going on in the hopes that something will seem interesting enough to make me want to tune in again. I really like pro wrestling and want very much for the WWE's product to be good again.
I don't think we'll know until fans return. IMO, fans will like and cheer this Roman, which will be a bad thing. We're supposed to hate this guy and want him to lose. I just hope he's got a promo ready to tell everyone who's cheering for him that they can stuff it. That they were the same people who booed him when he was giving them everything he had.
It only underlies the bigger problem,the fact that WWE Babyfaces suck.since 2014,and that brief time brock Lesnar was a face, i could not tell you any other time when a babyface was cool to get behind. Gone are the days of CM punk, daniel bryan,and batista. Everybody is a john cena knock off these days and it doesn't work because only John cena has the other worldly charisma to make his lame in ring character somehow work.
Bang on. Pretty much every single one of these would also be on my top 10 list The no 1 is exactly THE problem with the product. It's still got mainstream appeal but I want to see the supporting cast step up. Ensemble tv shows are almost always better than ones with just one star player.
In the two golden eras they had so many people who where over, Todays midcard would sell an arm to be as over as Road Dog was in 99 or the Hardys in 2000 there's nothing close to that now.
I know Adam has played a heel in a Wrestling Fed before(cough cough, WCPW), but he’s almost lived a wrestling storyline on youtube/irl as well. Debuted as a face as part of WhatCulture, was about to go to Cultaholic before “turning heel”(we don’t speak of the darkest timeline), before rehabbing himself back into a face for WrestleTalk. We are glad to have you back, Blampied. You have shaped out a generation of wrestling fans here on youtube. Love you, Plumpy.
I mean, if I was being booed enough to clearly hear it from within the ring, and I’d been face for at least two months, but also carry some degree of influence, I’d demand to either change to a “I want to be good enough for you” schtick, or turn heel to a “You never gave me a chance” schtick.
"2014 was a pretty excelent year for WWE storyline wise"... says Adam while we see a image of CM Punk, who quit in january of 2014 and forced plans to be changed on the road to WM.
Honestly I wanted the Undertaker to retire after a once in a lifetime match. The best possible match is Shawn Michaels returns for 1 night of Wrestlemania, depending on how training goes make it go last or second to last, and have Shawn win. No shenanigans, no interference and no ref bump. Just 2 of the greatest wrestlers of all time giving their all in 1 last match. Allow Shawn to "prove to himself" he could've won and beat the Undertaker once and for all then end it with them showing mutual respect for each other. That's it. You don't gotta do a whole lot. Just allow these 2 people to work out a fight between them that allows them to go the mile but without risk of great injury. I would buy a ticket just to see that.
This was a good line the first time he said it because it was a borderline heel promo and legit the best thing Reigns had said since the Shield. But they ruined it.
If Roman was gonna win a Rumble, it should have been 2014. If you watch it back, the crowd was electric for him. Sure, it's probably just because he...wasn't Batista...and it would have ruined the Yes Movement story, but it wouldn't have resulted in *the most over man in entertainment ever getting booed out of the building a year later.*
@@Vandalia1998 And having Bryan win that would have arguably been even better. Think about it: Daniel Bryan could still have that triple threat match with the man he'd been trying to beat since SummerSlam, but this time the third man would be the most dangerous man on the roster at that point. Not only that, Roman being in the match raises the stakes for all three guys in the match - Bryan trying to finally take his title back from Orton while also dealing with Rumble-dominating Roman, Orton having to defend the title without an ally in the match, and Roman's arrive-kill-leave style being tested by two top-tier opponents.
WWE seems to have only 3 types of faces. Generic good guy or girl with no personality or character except that, gullible idiots who fall for a heel's plan every time or assholes who are bigger bad guys or girls than the heel they're against.
Can you please explain the whole engagement thing as if I were an alien trying to wrap his head around the concept? I don't understand how that would improve the babyfaces.
@@Xehanort10 That makes sense, I just don't get it. I kind of like the glib babyface who isn't frazzled by stuff. It matches me in terms of personality and I find the emotional ones (ex. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Kevin Owens, etc.) to be really whiny. I don't think that sort of thing is appealing when toddlers do it, much less grown men.
@@sertorrhenclegane A wrestling character can be an optimist and still be engaging. Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, and Edge are great babyfaces who try and take their losses on the chin but they still have something to say other than calling the heel fat, stupid, or another childish insult. The problem has been too many of them for too long. Every big babyface is a 75 year old mans version of a smooth talker that has this feeling of cynical poster child branding. A pretty blue eyes, model looking good guy who kisses babies in a sport that centres around fighting.
Great ending to a great video. That's there main problem. They have the best talent in the world in that ring. They need better star making stories. The early 2000s of wrestling, the Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression had the best mid card stories. That's why they had the best roster because everyone was over and they used that for the advantage. It does baffle that now because of John Cena (no fault of his, he was great enough to stay on top for 10 years) WWE want to rely on 1 guy
I have liked Reigns throughout his career but it seems as soon as he starts to get over as a singles star they seem to just bring The Shield back implode it and then they’re back to square one.
Perfectly said. I used to say "if they would stop trying to control everything he says and does, he could be so much better". He apparently has been trying to get them to turn him heel now for years, and his idea was a heel Samoan dynasty stable called "The Bloodline". And now look. This Tribal Chief gimmick is perfect for him and a slightly different version of his own idea, AND they have stopped trying to control what he says on the mic. And this gimmick has easily allowed him to give his best on the mic so far.
@@WoodstockProd I wouldn't be surprised if we see that in the future. He won't be heel forever, so when they turn him face again, HOPEFULLY they keep allowing him to (pardon the pun) "take the Reigns" of his character. I would like to see what he can do with creative freedom for a face Roman Reigns.
It didn't help they'd get cold feet every time they tried. Whenever people booed they'd stop pushing him as the top guy for a bit but when he got a few cheers WWE interpreted that as "Let's force him on everyone again."
Is It weird that nearly 2 years on from this video's publication that number 1 is way more of a problem than it has ever been? Like, the stuff Roman's been doing lately has been good but man for the last 2 years it's felt so much like everyone else is fighting for 2nd place. Compounded by the absolutely BAFFLING decision to put both world titles on him. It's even worse since him nominally being a heel means that everyone who has to step up and get knocked back down by the Reigns bulldozer are all the company's top babyfaces which makes it so hard to get invested in anyone since you know there's only so high they can go before they hit the Tribal Ceiling. God I cannot wait for him to lose the titles so that we can get at least a hint of intrigue in the main event scene again.
Maybe putting both the titles on him was bad but it was a great angle. He's the hottest thing in wrestling right now, 2nd place isn't even close. He became the final boss of all of wrestling. But the biggest problem is right now, no one apart from Sami is worthy of getting that Roman Reigns rub and is Sami really the one you hitch your wagon to? I say yes but some may disagree. The biggest problem is that in him becoming the best thing in wrestling right now, there are no credible threats for his dominance.
As someone who DETESTED what they were doing with Roman and by proxy, everyone else on the roster back during those awful years and am now seeing how absolutely RIGHT they got it with his Tribal Chief gimmick, I have to second what Adam said in a previous list: Told you so.
Only speaking for myself here, but anti-Roman sentiment for me actually started at the 2014 Rumble. That Rumble, and the weeks of TV on both ends of it, telegraphed to the audience: 'When the Shield breaks up, Roman is gonna be the guy we push and we'll make everyone else look incompetent to do it.' The roles ultimately changed around when they did break it up, taking a chance on a Heel Rollins and a Face Ambrose, but Royal Rumble 2014 contains a number of hints about what the next 4 years would look like.
I'm so glad Im not the only one who thinks 2014 was a great year for WWE story wise. I'm hoping they can get back to that level of story telling in the next few years.
This list is 100% on point. The main reason WWE lost me as a fan was once it became apparent that it didn't matter who I liked, and there was no point in getting behind anyone besides Roman. Dean being the most sympathetic coming out of the shield breakup? Sorry, Roman is going for the title. Brian back at the 2015 Rumble? Sorry, Roman is winning. Dean getting a shot at taking the title from HHH to improve the WM32 main event? Sorry, gotta save that win for Roman. Owens is killing it with an unexpected title reign? Ya, he's just a place holder until we can get the title to Brock to give to Roman. Compare that to what AEW has done with Hangman Page over the last 1.5 years. I came into AEW not caring at all about Hangman, and in fact thinking he was going to be pushed as their boring babyface of the company. In that time he has had (and still has) real problems to overcome. Depression, losing friends, etc. are all things we can relate to and make him more enduring as a character. He responds to them like a real person would, and does just make a joke and shrug it off.
Honestly, dumbest choice they ever made with Reigns was continuing to have him wear the vest. Its ridiculous. Their only real selling point for him for years was his incredible look, and still chose to not show most of his physique.
#2 is exactly the reason Drew McIntyre, in my opinion, is still a direly-needed commodity in the world championship picture. With Drew, you *know* he cares about what's going on around him, whether he's engaging in a fun sportsmanlike competition for his title (Keith Lee, Sheamus at first) or showing utter, abject contempt and hatred for his opponent (Orton, Ziggler, Sheamus this time). He's booked like a top-level, unstoppable face, but because he actually engages with the story and his villains, you actually *want* to see that from him.
Exactly. The faces constantly acting like they're too cool for school really hurts the product. If *they* don't care about what's happening why the hell should the audience?
Who’d have thought that Roman not being able to move on from the Shield would have caused his ultimate downfall. Triple H and his team have been incredible
There are....TONS of reasons to list, but since he's been a contributing factor to the overall rejection of Cena and Roman by the fans, and mentioned as such in two of these videos... Top Ten Mistakes WWE (and maybe WCW) Made with Hulk Hogan
Great list as always, Adam! The RAW after Mania after defeating The Undertaker and dropping "This is MY Yard Now" line after playing with the crowd really could've cemented his heel turn that time but alas, we get to suffer the same babyface formula for another few years. I've no issues with him back then and I feel sorry for him for all the hate he got that time. With all these happened, glad that WWE finally dropped the ball and let Roman be the heel he deserved to be years ago. He's been killing it with the promos and storytelling since coming back. I genuinely will be glad and give this guy the cheers he deserves when he goes back to being a face, with the proper build, of course.
Here's a miss opportunity for WWE After the Shield imploded Dean/Jon and Roman become Tag Team Partners, Dean being the lunatic and Roman the bad dog, they become the hottest tag team in WWE //In my opinion// Their main goal was to get revenge on Rollins and destroy the Authority in the process which could of lead to a Wrestlemania match between Dean and Roman vs Seth and Triple H This not only could get Roman over but make the WWE alot of money What do you guys think?
I think the fact that Austin’s injury history shortened his career are the main reason it worked with him. We didn’t get 5+ years of uninterrupted Stone Cold.
Roman Reigns was also the first person to go in to a Wrestlemania Match vs The Undertaker as the favourite. Undertaker has 2 losses at Mania, one was a genuine shock and the other was a forgone conclusion that Taker would lose.
One of those reasons why Reigns was no longer superhated aside his second Leukemia battle, is that they got to learn about the man behind the Roman character, Joe.
I completely agree, especially with #3. Even John Cena had good and memorable villains, like JBL, Edge, Randy Orton (before it got old), and even Triple H for a little bit. The hero needs a good villain to help get them over. Iconic Rivalries are what makes up most of WWE history, and so far, the only semi good one Roman was involved with was the fued with Braun Strowman, which was great until WWE nerfed him.
2015 Rumble was the worst Rumble of all time. No one will ever convince me otherwise. Like yeah wrong person won but it was just the fact that only three people in the whole thing got to look good. Everyone else got thrown out like garbage, including Bray who had been the ONLY other person who had STARTED to get any kind of build in the Rumble besides Big Show, Kane, and Reigns. It was just BAFFLING. Like NOTHING HAPPENED. At least when Batista won, yeah people were upset at the time that he won, but at least THINGS happened in that Rumble. And it wasn't just the same two guys throwing people out like they were worthless. ffs
To me, the worst mistake they did with Roman (like they've done with so many others) was push him before he was actually ready. Yeah, he got over with The Shield, but he was never properly built up as an INDIVIDUAL star (which certainly wasn't gonna happen while continuing to wear the attire of a group that had long been torn apart).
Adam: I live here now. Does this mean partsfunknown will have a competing livestream of survivor series against wrestletalk? With both channels stopping everything a month before hand and spending the build up in team shirts bragging about BRAND SUPREMACY!!!!!!!
Why is Triple H constantly treated as a "star" in the Attitude Era? He was the AE's B+ player. He had to be paired with Chyna, then Shawn, then "pick 3 mid-card guys." He was never a star on his own until Daddy-In-Law gave him the ball, which he mistook for a shovel and by then I had already started my sabbatical from WWE fandom.
To be fair, if this heel run as The Head of the Table is indicative of anything, it's how successful Reigns could be as a top babyface. Because the things that make this gimmick really work are the emotions of it, playing off his feeling of responsibility, that the championship is a cross for him to bear, that he didn't want to hurt the Usos and force them to fall in line, he HAD to. Stuff like that show how good he is at playing off of emotions and making people feel things, which is what's so necessary for a babyface
Honestly when it comes to wresting Heels seem to have more range to be able to have something of a personality or a reason for them doing what they do. Like for real in storytelling your antagonist needs to be something everything your hero is not to be the least big compelling and in wrestling it’s actually having flaws or quirks. The reason Taker worked for so long was because he started as a literal horror movie monster
This was brilliant. Pointing out the fact that fan anger at a babyface isn't them being kayfabed, it's knowing how they'll be booked and getting angry about THAT. To say nothing of the person suffering the most under the One Big Face booking is the One Big Face...wait... Zardoz to WWE confirmed!
It’s not even the Hulk Hogan problem, having one man hold the company on their back has been the model since Bruno Sammartino. Over half a century of the Superman conquering all odds, etched into the foundation of the company,
I just wanna say that I’m okay with #7 now solely because of Roman’s recent feud with Seth Rollins, but it was still a problem that shouldn’t have taken over a half a decade to fix
As a testament to #2 Cena's feud with Punk in 2012 was beautiful for that reason because the promos they exchanged shed this and let Cena talk straight at Punk, calling him out for all his character flaws and forcing him to defend his actions. Making the heel angry that, yeah, you figured out their little facade and know exactly what's eating them inside is fantastic storytelling because all their barbs, quips, and posturing amount to insecurity and feeling threatened by someone who isn't afraid to call them out. The intensity and conviction that came from those promos was something WWE hadn't seen in a long time (because during 2011 it was just CM Punk being the one to call it like it is but in 2012 Cena was firing back and it gave something for the audience to invest in).
I agree with everything on this list but I do have one comment to make. We cannot really compare Daniel Bryan to Roman Reigns because Roman Reigns is not an underdog. There's nothing for us to root for because he already has everything. Handsome? ✔ Tall? ✔ Great physique? ✔ Strong lineage? ✔ Well respected? ✔ Beautiful wife? ✔ Lovely family? ✔ Articulate and well-spoken? ✔ No skeletons in his closet? ✔ Who is he going to go against that will make him seem like the underdog? No one. While I personally think that he is a natural heel and is obviously doing his best work, I would really be impressed if he can parlay this great work into a Babyface role that would suit him well.
The Wrestlemania 32 match was actually pretty good but was ruined by the constant booing from the crowd. Roman could have literally fired rockets out of his ass but by that point he was so hated it didn't matter what he did.
I think the “1 top babyface” principle isn’t BAD. It’s just far more difficult to pull off. AWA did it with Verne. WCW did it with Sting and Goldberg. WWE did it obviously with Hulk, Austin, and Cena. But the only way it works is if there is a VERY strong fan connection. Cena was always good it’s just what he was asked to do was garbage. But Cena is still more over now than anyone else other than maybe punk in the past 10 years. He has more name recognition than ANY wrestler in the past 10 years too. It’s a difficult process but when it works money is no issue
Not even close. "Ace" concept is different from the WWF top guy concept. New japan has the three musketeers whuch used to be chono, hashimoto,mutoh and then Tanahashi, Nakamura,shibata(and now probably naito,okada, Jay white). The point is,at any given time,there are many main eventers for new Japan,so that their top guy doesn't feel overexposed. With all Japan it was four pillars (kawada, misawa,toei, kobashi) each of them could be a top guy at any time.
Not quite. Right now it’s what I call a “big 4” system. 4 guys at the top who can hold the belt and others trying to break into that stratosphere. When I first watched NJPW it was Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura and Styles. For most of my time watching it was Okada, Omega, Tanahashi and Naito. Right now it’s Ibushi, Okada, Naito and Jay White
@@shahsadsaadu5817 not quite. The thing about the three musketeers and the new three musketeers is that they all came from the same dojo class. The current “three musketeers” you mentioned are all from different dojo classes. White being way younger than Naito or Okada. Also, you forgot about out world champion Kota Ibushi
@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodsm4708 new japan dojo. The point is every japanese wrestling promotion has more than one top guy. There would be multiple Homefront stars(naito,tana,okada) top gaijins(jay white,omega) free lancers(ibushi),with how much influence 90s all Japan has on new japan,you would not be far from wrong to say that there is a "big 4" system, like the 4 pillars of heaven (misawa,kawada, kobashi toei).
Interesting to look at in hindsight now that Cena vs Roman headlined SummerSlam. It was aparently the biggest SummerSlam of all time (despite being a HIGHLY dubious show, shut up, I don't care how much you liked it) which Roman (in character) claimed credit for, but the actual match between Cena and Roman was... probably worse than their previous one? Cena's psychology was all sort of wrong anyway. But do you think it might have been an even BIGGER draw if this was the first time Roman had cleanly beaten Cena? Maybe.
I don't get why they think missing part of a match where you can lose at anytime, but cannot win at at any time, could ever possibly be heroic. If you get pulled out of a triple threat on a stretcher and come back, sure you got a rest but the match could have ended with you in the back. That can't happen in the royal rumble. Absolute nonsense.
1. Daniel Bryan comes back AT THE RUMBLE, AS A SURPRISE RETURN, UNANNOUNCED. giant pop, cheers forever, he WINS THE RUMBLE and goes on to face Bork Losler at Mania, where he wins in a David vs Goliath type match in the main event, very similar to their SS18 match, which was amazing. 2. instead of setting up Sting vs Triple H for Mania (you can do that at SummerSlam if you really want to), have Undertaker show up during one of Bray Wyatt's taunt promos (he didn't even show up to any promo irl, it was really weird) and then Sting comes back to face the 2 of them. Triple Threat, Sting vs Bray Wyatt vs The Undertaker. you get 3 dream matches in one go: Wyatt vs Taker, Sting vs Taker and Sting vs Wyatt. also, set it to be later in the card so it can happen in darkness. 3. Triple H can face Randy Orton. book it as "13 years in the making" yadda yadda. sounds fun. if not, and if you HAVE to have Rocky at Mania, LET HIM AND TRIPLE H HAVE A GO. 4. Shield Triple Threat. OBVIOUSLY. let it build up with the story you booked in your fantasy booking, let them go 30-35 minutes with some insane spots, maybe bring in a chair, symbolic of the breakup. 5. have some of the people in the ladder match be replaced by high flyers and let them do a flippity floppity ladder match. also, if you book Rock vs HHH instead of Orton vs HHH, let Orton go here to hit some RKO's. idk, I think Neville diving from a ladder in a Red Arrow dive only to get hit by, to get struck by, a smooth RKO sounds like mad fun. 6. Miz vs Mizdow. the pre-show battle royale was not enough. and just like that, WrestleMania 31 is a stacked deck, maybe one of the best of all time, and the Rumble doesn't suck.
HHH vs Reigns was a subjective match. I thought it was good but I didn't like the pacing. They should have started throwing blows when they got in the ring.
The worse thing about the Roman Experiment?
The fact that WWE knew PERFECTLY what the problem was. When they did the Roman vs Cena feud, Cena evicerated Roman by saying exactly what the fans have said for years. THEY KNEW and still refused to change it despite their entire brand suffering as a result.
Its fascinating how WWE can and has failed in the exact same way for decades.
Rocky Maivia, Diesel, Cena, Roman...
@@MaximumRabbit Old habits die hard.
@@burnslee1164 except cena worked
@@MaximumRabbit Cena worked cause his promo skills are great. Was he bland at times? Absolutely. But he could still inject something great into it with his mic skills.
Roman for the longest time couldn’t. He needed heyman, arguably the best promo of all time, to carry him. Think about that
@@jessedellross3245 This is because Roman was never meant to be a talker. He's not really a great promo cutter, I look back at his 2014(?) promo of him calling himself the "head of the table" it just was not it. But that's because unlike Cena, his talent was in his wrestling and his body. Even in the Shield he wasn't the main talker. That was WWE's biggest mistake with him, trying to treat him, in all ways, like Cena.
The single biggest mistake with roman Reigns was not turning him heel after beating taker at mania. It was the ultimate heel move and he cut the best heel promo the next night. Why they didn’t turn him there and then is beyond me
wasnt time yet... i agree with heyman who said he needed time and some age in his face to become the tribal chief
That makes sense, but I’m still kinda annoyed they didn’t turn him after 32 - he had no idea about a Tribal Chief, but he had a lot of raw charisma back then also.
Agreed.
To be fair that would be like giving in. They were still lumbering along deep in the Roman experiment at WM33 (because that curse carried over to stinking up the main event of 34 so clearly WWE's priorities were still "we pick who you like," despite that already not working for the past two years).
WWE SHOULD have given in because that would make the show more watchable but obviously we know how they (or rather Vince-controlled WWE) operate.
I agree. It’s like they wanted to work against their own goals. How could anyone brag about ending the career of someone everyone loves and still be a baby face? It’s almost as stupid as the time they turned Alberto Del Rio face, then had him run over Santa Clause!
To quote a certain sexy daddy, "STOP CHANTING DANIEL BRYAN AND TELL US WHAT YOU WANT!"
That was wwe's biggest mistake
@@pineapplehead6626 that was just one of their biggest mistakes
That was WWE from 2013 - 2015 in a nutshell.
@@enigmaskull3495 and you had cm punk during that time
Oh how badly they fucked up.
I remember when the shield blew up and relating so hard to Dean for being pissed and psychotic when Roman just calmly went, “why Seth” in the calmest voice why ambrose was having an aneurism next to him and that was just the beginning. Can’t believe it took a pandemic for them to book him right 🙄
If they played with that it could have been an interesting as well. Have Ambrose be full of hit blooded rage who's constantly trying to get at rollins at every chance. Then you can contrast it with Roman who's seems more collected and calm, then have him pick the perfect opportunity to strike playing into a more tranquil type of rage where its less in your face. Basically playing hot blooded anger vs a more cold revenge.
@@cjstanky Having Dean going psycho but having Reigns with a more controlled anger making Seth think he's letting him off then striking when he least expected it would have been better than Reigns apparently not caring that one of his best friends had betrayed him.
@Xehanort10 I know I'm 2 years late, but even if they had Roman go full Luke Skywalker it could have worked. Dean out for revenge, while roman refuses to believe his friend actually went bad. Then have Roman slowly realise that seth is gone, and have a triple threat at mania
One of the biggest problems I saw was how he seemingly always won on the weekly shows but when brock was champion, he could never beat him. So his wins on raw mean less because he can't beat the champion and the guys reigns is beating are hurt more by their losses since they were losing to the guy who can't get the job done. Such an odd situation that time period was.
It was the same with his feud with Braun. He was winning nothing matches but then during each PPV vs Braun, except the one before Mania, he lost. Every single time. From New year that year until survivor series Roman won 2 PPV matches. His first vs Braun and then at Mania vs The Undertaker. Then it was constantly losing until the Shield reunion.
SO I WASN'T HALLUCINATING
HE HAD BLUE EYES FOR A BIT
I thought I was the only one who noticed
My question is what’s wrong with brown eyes?
@@enigmaskull3495 nothing, but trying to understand the WWE higher ups thought process is like trying to make sense of a magic eye picture while blindfolded
@@enigmaskull3495 In the UK, babyfaces are refered to as blue eyes, for some reason, someone at WWE thought the best way to get Roman cheered was to give him blue eyes to be more relatable.
@@enigmaskull3495 nothing. he has nice eyes
Sting v. Triple H
Undertaker v. Bray Wyatt
Cena v. Rusev
Shield Triple Threat
Bryan v. Lesnar
What a show that would've been
Switch Sting and Wyatt and just bask in the glory
@@DMBArunimIshan Wyatt vs Triple H...? Why tho?
@@ArcaneAzmadi I mean, Trips is called the Cerebral Assassin for a reason. Imagine the mind games between the two to build up the match. I recognize Sting is as good at the mind games as either guy but with the backstage connection the two share with how Bray was brought in to NXT by Hunter, that match could've been special. A student beating the master so to speak.
The worst mistake they mad imo, is when they didn’t turn Roman heel after beating the Undertaker at WM 33. WHY DIDN’T THEY DO IT?!
I remember clearly I was at that wrestlemania as soon as the ref counted 3 when Roman pinned Taker I said to myself “they finally did it.... they just killed Roman as a babyface”
@@ryankeefe6222 Plus his "This is my yard now." after smirking through the boos the night before for roughly 5 minutes, even his "I got them eating out of my hand gesture." were pure heel. You could tell he was enjoying this heel mode he had that night.
@@faelirra dude I’ll tell you how pissed people where after that there were about 5-6 drunk people while we were leaving the stadium trying to figure out where Roman’s car was
Better late than never
Imagine the tribal chief character after beating taker. MONEY. It’s money now but it would somehow be even more money
The “Hulk Hogan” problem is something i 100 percent agree with it’s good to have a top babyface but do you know what’s better? Having multiple over babyfaces on top like in the attitude era with Austin Rock Undertaker etc
Can't help but feel for Roman. Seems like too nice a guy to have the last handful of years of his career be as messy as they have. Imagine if this tribal chief thing started years ago.
I almost think people WANT to like him but the casting was just so poor at the moment when they could have struck at its hottest.
I've said before I always thought he was a better candidate to be the one to break up The Shield because he was the most unknown member of the group. He was very strong but generally had the least personality, keeping to himself and being the big guy of the group (he won the tag championships with Seth and Seth was clearly the more vibrant of the pair). So giving him a chance to come out on his own by stabbing everyone in the back and aligning himself in the name of money, opportunity, and protection by The Authority would really ring true to his character (someone who never revealed what was actually on his mind, tagging along with these guys and riding their coattails, then picking the perfect moment to make his own name by throwing them under the bus). Someone who recognized that The Shield could only take him so far and was just waiting for the right time to pull the trigger.
John Cena started off as a heel before his rise to the top that culminated at WrestleMania 21 (not to say pushing Cena the way they did through the mid-2000s was a good idea either but at least he had that initial spark that compelled people to him and won them over through his chase to the championship). There was nothing wrong with giving Roman that same journey--starting as a corporately chosen heel champion who looked down on everyone in his way even though he couldn't see his own role as a tool to people who just wanted to protect their power until he opens his eyes to what and who he's fighting for, lashes out and breaks from them, then goes out in a huge main event match against Triple H and ascends the mountain.
WWE failed to make a viable villain for Reigns
That they turned Roman into THAT villain.
@Yifeng Toh Then they fucked it up.
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
@Yifeng Toh nooooooo ittttttt wasssssnttt
@@sh3tpostsgamertime204 depends on when you mean. in 2017 they had feud of the year, then wwe fucked it up in 2018
Immediately after, he got into that Braun Strowman feud that was actually pretty good. Unfortunately, it unintentionally turned Braun into the biggest babyface in the company. The two biggest pops were him spending an entire Raw beating up Roman (I’M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!!), and then emerging from an ambulance the Raw after their ambulance match at Great Balls of Fire (awful name, not-so-bad show) to beat up Roman some more.
the first 5 seconds were enough to know that Adam will always be the best for every list
I don't know. I think it's just example of Adam trying too hard to be funny. He's funnier when he isn't doing the awkward, reputious Ricky Gervais/Conan O'Brien schtick.
"Except Keith Lee of course"
Me, a Sami Zayn fan: Is that a challenge I hear?
Me, who thinks that Keith Lee is much better: *BRING IT ON*
@@john-olivierlukama1548
Me, who's not intimidated: *COME AT ME*
*Worlds Apart clashes with Bask In His Glory*
@@john-olivierlukama1548 me, a fan of both, "Let them fight!"
2:55 - I remember a friend of mine at the time comparing post-Shield Reigns to the cool jock in high school - then when The Shield split up they all "graduated", and Ambrose and Rollins went on to college. They matured, started listening to different music, and started dressing differently. Then they came home after graduation to find Reigns, still listening to the same music and wearing the same clothes as four years ago, high-fiving and acting like he was still 17 years old.
God I wish they’d give Roman a new theme, he needs it to FINALLY get out of the Shields shadow.
Edit: Yes, I am beyond happy about his amazing theme.
Yeah but whenever you hear that theme you're used to booing the shit out of him so why would you change that?
Apparently being worked on.
@@refaddickproduction1 thank god
*DUH-NUH, DUH-NUH, DUH-NUN, DUH-DUH.*
@@emigrant1510 It’s a good theme but he has had it way to long after the shield split
THIS is why WWE can’t get out of its own way. One person for the generation...phase out...repeat. It’s terrible.
That’s probably one of the reasons why the Attitude Era is revered because there was multiple guys, not just one.
Which is sad because when I thought of wwe for the longest time I thought randy orton and John cena
Maybe because no one knows how to carry a big company like WWE today. Put any of the mid carders that people wanna see in the main event as the posterboys and they will fail miserably. In my opinion there's only two current wrestlers that can really carry the compnay and they are Roman and Drew.
@@BobbyJr_ i agree with drew but roman, really? he cant even do a simple promo, without someone tell him what to say
@@candyhochstmann4632 It's actually the other around but okay. When he was given heavily scripted promos they sucked. He has more creative freedom right now and he is the main reason why Smackdown is so good.
Incredibly surprised that “suffering succotash” wasn’t an entry
it was apart of #2
I honestly don’t get why that is so hated
@@jacobadams4314 I mean, you’ve like, heard it, right?
@@kev_whatev It’s an almost good line. The alliteration, and the way Roman delivered it without tripping over said alliteration, was nice and all, but it’s a line that did not fit Roman’s strengths as a character. And that’s the crucial issue. It’s a Cena line, but delivered by Roman.
@@jacobadams4314 Because in the early parts of his face run WWE had Roman, who they were trying to portray as a badass quote Looney Tunes and tell the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. They had him call Sheamus a tater tot at one point too. As well as say "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am the giant's teeth are down his throat" in complete seriousness.
Leave it to Adam to get it. The way they handled the Shield breakup was too unfathomably dumb to be the footnote it became
Lol Adam just shocked the system! I
Shock the system and that's undisputed
@@Himanshu-mj8fn BAY BAY
BOOM
Mmmm
the end on an ERA
And right now no matter how great I think Reigns is, the WWE have already done irreparable damage to themselves and him. He’s doing some career character work and has finally seemed to find it.
Reigns is the biggest star in the company through sheer attrition alone. 5 years of fighting your own fans to get this guy over in the most inauthentic way possible. In the process they had to undercut any other potential star that could equal or surpass him, became creatively bankrupt, and have lost about half their fan base in the time.
The last two points sum up why WWE has been so bad in recent years, Live attendence is dropping and crowds aren't as invested because we get burned over and over for trying to emotionally invest in people who aren't "Part of the plan".
You are 100% correct!
Stop getting invested and just go with it. I haven't been invested in anything for years and I'm content.
@@sertorrhenclegane What's the point of watching if you aren't invested in it?
@@BiggieTrismegistus Habit.
@@sertorrhenclegane I know how that goes. I haven't watched in years but still follow what's going on in the hopes that something will seem interesting enough to make me want to tune in again. I really like pro wrestling and want very much for the WWE's product to be good again.
I think this Tribal Chief gimmick fully repaired Roman Reigns in the eyes of the fans.
It has because he's more interesting as a character and doesn't have to do the cookie cutter babyface stuff
I'm not sure if he's "fully" repaired yet, but he's totally getting there. It's such a breath of fresh air.
Almost. He just only needs a new theme song!
I don't think we'll know until fans return. IMO, fans will like and cheer this Roman, which will be a bad thing. We're supposed to hate this guy and want him to lose. I just hope he's got a promo ready to tell everyone who's cheering for him that they can stuff it. That they were the same people who booed him when he was giving them everything he had.
It only underlies the bigger problem,the fact that WWE Babyfaces suck.since 2014,and that brief time brock Lesnar was a face, i could not tell you any other time when a babyface was cool to get behind. Gone are the days of CM punk, daniel bryan,and batista. Everybody is a john cena knock off these days and it doesn't work because only John cena has the other worldly charisma to make his lame in ring character somehow work.
Bang on. Pretty much every single one of these would also be on my top 10 list The no 1 is exactly THE problem with the product. It's still got mainstream appeal but I want to see the supporting cast step up. Ensemble tv shows are almost always better than ones with just one star player.
In the two golden eras they had so many people who where over, Todays midcard would sell an arm to be as over as Road Dog was in 99 or the Hardys in 2000 there's nothing close to that now.
I know Adam has played a heel in a Wrestling Fed before(cough cough, WCPW), but he’s almost lived a wrestling storyline on youtube/irl as well.
Debuted as a face as part of WhatCulture, was about to go to Cultaholic before “turning heel”(we don’t speak of the darkest timeline), before rehabbing himself back into a face for WrestleTalk.
We are glad to have you back, Blampied. You have shaped out a generation of wrestling fans here on youtube.
Love you, Plumpy.
The worst mistake wwe made with roman reigns was ignoring the fans when they was booing just because he was vinces little puppet
That’s how they work. They are stupid .
+BCFC FAN TV
#FACTS
I mean, if I was being booed enough to clearly hear it from within the ring, and I’d been face for at least two months, but also carry some degree of influence, I’d demand to either change to a “I want to be good enough for you” schtick, or turn heel to a “You never gave me a chance” schtick.
did you.....watch the video? lmao
@@Lynch2507 yes
"2014 was a pretty excelent year for WWE storyline wise"... says Adam while we see a image of CM Punk, who quit in january of 2014 and forced plans to be changed on the road to WM.
A lot of this I've been saying for years. Roman has always been great. The way WWE uses him is the problem.
Damn it Vince!
Anyone Remember when Adam disappeared for over a year and we would all watch the old lists he made on what culture
It was miserable to live in the time.
Oh I remember. I'm glad he got the help he needed and was able to bounce back
I still think "The Tribal Chief" Reigns retiring The Undertaker is the biggest missed opportunity in the last 10 years
Honestly I wanted the Undertaker to retire after a once in a lifetime match. The best possible match is Shawn Michaels returns for 1 night of Wrestlemania, depending on how training goes make it go last or second to last, and have Shawn win. No shenanigans, no interference and no ref bump. Just 2 of the greatest wrestlers of all time giving their all in 1 last match. Allow Shawn to "prove to himself" he could've won and beat the Undertaker once and for all then end it with them showing mutual respect for each other. That's it. You don't gotta do a whole lot. Just allow these 2 people to work out a fight between them that allows them to go the mile but without risk of great injury. I would buy a ticket just to see that.
"I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy, I'm the guy" WORST LINE IN F* WRESTLING HISTORY.
This was a good line the first time he said it because it was a borderline heel promo and legit the best thing Reigns had said since the Shield. But they ruined it.
A top 10 list from Adam , such wonderful old memory coming back
If Roman was gonna win a Rumble, it should have been 2014. If you watch it back, the crowd was electric for him.
Sure, it's probably just because he...wasn't Batista...and it would have ruined the Yes Movement story, but it wouldn't have resulted in *the most over man in entertainment ever getting booed out of the building a year later.*
It would of just been Bryan vs Reigns vs Orton
@@Vandalia1998 And having Bryan win that would have arguably been even better. Think about it: Daniel Bryan could still have that triple threat match with the man he'd been trying to beat since SummerSlam, but this time the third man would be the most dangerous man on the roster at that point.
Not only that, Roman being in the match raises the stakes for all three guys in the match - Bryan trying to finally take his title back from Orton while also dealing with Rumble-dominating Roman, Orton having to defend the title without an ally in the match, and Roman's arrive-kill-leave style being tested by two top-tier opponents.
I'm surprised that Adam didn't mention roman vs taker
I thought that match told an excellent story of the old dog who can’t go anymore getting chased out by the new dog
@@conmarsz that would have made sense if reigns was a heel
That was the perfect chance to turn him heel. Especially the way the crowd drowned him out the next night on Raw.
@@kev_whatev And he played into it so well, it's almost like even Roman was like "SEE?! I can play a heel, please let me play a heel!"
@@akarshprayaga5768 he was.. everyone is against the undertaker... and roman knew that
0:00 The words and footage combined made me laugh.
You really nailed down the issue with WWE babyfaces. No engagement, No emotion, just pure stand up comedy riddled pain.
WWE seems to have only 3 types of faces. Generic good guy or girl with no personality or character except that, gullible idiots who fall for a heel's plan every time or assholes who are bigger bad guys or girls than the heel they're against.
Can you please explain the whole engagement thing as if I were an alien trying to wrap his head around the concept? I don't understand how that would improve the babyfaces.
@@sertorrhenclegane I think he means you're given no reason to like or cheer for them. Just expected to because their character's "the good guy."
@@Xehanort10 That makes sense, I just don't get it. I kind of like the glib babyface who isn't frazzled by stuff. It matches me in terms of personality and I find the emotional ones (ex. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Kevin Owens, etc.) to be really whiny. I don't think that sort of thing is appealing when toddlers do it, much less grown men.
@@sertorrhenclegane A wrestling character can be an optimist and still be engaging. Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, and Edge are great babyfaces who try and take their losses on the chin but they still have something to say other than calling the heel fat, stupid, or another childish insult. The problem has been too many of them for too long. Every big babyface is a 75 year old mans version of a smooth talker that has this feeling of cynical poster child branding. A pretty blue eyes, model looking good guy who kisses babies in a sport that centres around fighting.
On the thing of not having a joker for his batman
The man lived long enough to see himself become the villain
Great ending to a great video. That's there main problem. They have the best talent in the world in that ring. They need better star making stories. The early 2000s of wrestling, the Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression had the best mid card stories. That's why they had the best roster because everyone was over and they used that for the advantage. It does baffle that now because of John Cena (no fault of his, he was great enough to stay on top for 10 years) WWE want to rely on 1 guy
I have liked Reigns throughout his career but it seems as soon as he starts to get over as a singles star they seem to just bring The Shield back implode it and then they’re back to square one.
2:52 they kept that in the back pocket for a LONG time but it’s aged well now
WWE was desperate to make Roman the top babyface but they also seemed to lack any kind of confidence in his ability to be the top babyface
Perfectly said. I used to say "if they would stop trying to control everything he says and does, he could be so much better". He apparently has been trying to get them to turn him heel now for years, and his idea was a heel Samoan dynasty stable called "The Bloodline". And now look. This Tribal Chief gimmick is perfect for him and a slightly different version of his own idea, AND they have stopped trying to control what he says on the mic. And this gimmick has easily allowed him to give his best on the mic so far.
@@matthollands7771 hell I think if they tried to make him his own character instead of John Cena 2.0, he could’ve gotten over
@@WoodstockProd I wouldn't be surprised if we see that in the future. He won't be heel forever, so when they turn him face again, HOPEFULLY they keep allowing him to (pardon the pun) "take the Reigns" of his character. I would like to see what he can do with creative freedom for a face Roman Reigns.
It would have worked. If he was like batista. A silent monster babyface. But they tried tk make him john Cena.
It didn't help they'd get cold feet every time they tried. Whenever people booed they'd stop pushing him as the top guy for a bit but when he got a few cheers WWE interpreted that as "Let's force him on everyone again."
Adam! I have one: "How would Adam book his ideas in WWE to Vince McMahon if he worked there".
Is It weird that nearly 2 years on from this video's publication that number 1 is way more of a problem than it has ever been? Like, the stuff Roman's been doing lately has been good but man for the last 2 years it's felt so much like everyone else is fighting for 2nd place. Compounded by the absolutely BAFFLING decision to put both world titles on him. It's even worse since him nominally being a heel means that everyone who has to step up and get knocked back down by the Reigns bulldozer are all the company's top babyfaces which makes it so hard to get invested in anyone since you know there's only so high they can go before they hit the Tribal Ceiling. God I cannot wait for him to lose the titles so that we can get at least a hint of intrigue in the main event scene again.
Maybe putting both the titles on him was bad but it was a great angle. He's the hottest thing in wrestling right now, 2nd place isn't even close. He became the final boss of all of wrestling. But the biggest problem is right now, no one apart from Sami is worthy of getting that Roman Reigns rub and is Sami really the one you hitch your wagon to? I say yes but some may disagree. The biggest problem is that in him becoming the best thing in wrestling right now, there are no credible threats for his dominance.
As someone who DETESTED what they were doing with Roman and by proxy, everyone else on the roster back during those awful years and am now seeing how absolutely RIGHT they got it with his Tribal Chief gimmick, I have to second what Adam said in a previous list:
Told you so.
Adam just called Roman Vs. Cena lol
Only speaking for myself here, but anti-Roman sentiment for me actually started at the 2014 Rumble. That Rumble, and the weeks of TV on both ends of it, telegraphed to the audience: 'When the Shield breaks up, Roman is gonna be the guy we push and we'll make everyone else look incompetent to do it.' The roles ultimately changed around when they did break it up, taking a chance on a Heel Rollins and a Face Ambrose, but Royal Rumble 2014 contains a number of hints about what the next 4 years would look like.
I'm so glad Im not the only one who thinks 2014 was a great year for WWE story wise. I'm hoping they can get back to that level of story telling in the next few years.
This list is 100% on point. The main reason WWE lost me as a fan was once it became apparent that it didn't matter who I liked, and there was no point in getting behind anyone besides Roman.
Dean being the most sympathetic coming out of the shield breakup? Sorry, Roman is going for the title. Brian back at the 2015 Rumble? Sorry, Roman is winning. Dean getting a shot at taking the title from HHH to improve the WM32 main event? Sorry, gotta save that win for Roman. Owens is killing it with an unexpected title reign? Ya, he's just a place holder until we can get the title to Brock to give to Roman.
Compare that to what AEW has done with Hangman Page over the last 1.5 years. I came into AEW not caring at all about Hangman, and in fact thinking he was going to be pushed as their boring babyface of the company. In that time he has had (and still has) real problems to overcome. Depression, losing friends, etc. are all things we can relate to and make him more enduring as a character. He responds to them like a real person would, and does just make a joke and shrug it off.
Boy, did this age like milk.
Honestly, dumbest choice they ever made with Reigns was continuing to have him wear the vest. Its ridiculous. Their only real selling point for him for years was his incredible look, and still chose to not show most of his physique.
Love the Shaun of the Dead reference
Came for the wrasslin, stayed for the simpsons reference
during the bit where rock holds reigns hand up you can see a guy with a roman reigns shirt booing him
Honestly, roman is the man whose had a massive push that was purposefully undercut and undermined at every opportunity
*Bring back the world heavyweight championship, it would look great on him just like the ic title :/*
I will never be able to understand how anyone booked the 2015 rr that bad
Kane and Big show almost made me throw a fit that day. Goodness me. It was shit. SHIT.
#2 is exactly the reason Drew McIntyre, in my opinion, is still a direly-needed commodity in the world championship picture. With Drew, you *know* he cares about what's going on around him, whether he's engaging in a fun sportsmanlike competition for his title (Keith Lee, Sheamus at first) or showing utter, abject contempt and hatred for his opponent (Orton, Ziggler, Sheamus this time). He's booked like a top-level, unstoppable face, but because he actually engages with the story and his villains, you actually *want* to see that from him.
Exactly. The faces constantly acting like they're too cool for school really hurts the product. If *they* don't care about what's happening why the hell should the audience?
Who’d have thought that Roman not being able to move on from the Shield would have caused his ultimate downfall.
Triple H and his team have been incredible
There are....TONS of reasons to list, but since he's been a contributing factor to the overall rejection of Cena and Roman by the fans, and mentioned as such in two of these videos...
Top Ten Mistakes WWE (and maybe WCW) Made with Hulk Hogan
#1 Giving Hulk Hogan creative control
Add TNA to the list.
@@NeonKnightOA Hogan in TNA at all, calling shots, and god forbid, having matches in and of itself was a mistake lol
Great list as always, Adam! The RAW after Mania after defeating The Undertaker and dropping "This is MY Yard Now" line after playing with the crowd really could've cemented his heel turn that time but alas, we get to suffer the same babyface formula for another few years. I've no issues with him back then and I feel sorry for him for all the hate he got that time.
With all these happened, glad that WWE finally dropped the ball and let Roman be the heel he deserved to be years ago. He's been killing it with the promos and storytelling since coming back. I genuinely will be glad and give this guy the cheers he deserves when he goes back to being a face, with the proper build, of course.
4:00 why have I never made that connection between “Big Dog” and “Hounds of Justice” until now?!?
Here's a miss opportunity for WWE
After the Shield imploded Dean/Jon and Roman become Tag Team Partners, Dean being the lunatic and Roman the bad dog, they become the hottest tag team in WWE //In my opinion//
Their main goal was to get revenge on Rollins and destroy the Authority in the process which could of lead to a Wrestlemania match between Dean and Roman vs Seth and Triple H
This not only could get Roman over but make the WWE alot of money
What do you guys think?
Triple H vs Reigns was godawful.. It went so long i celebrated a birthday
thats cuz hunter loves his 30 min specials.. see his match with batista at WM 35 for a reference
I think the fact that Austin’s injury history shortened his career are the main reason it worked with him. We didn’t get 5+ years of uninterrupted Stone Cold.
THE MOMENT of the “this is my yard now.” line should have been a heel turn
Roman Reigns was also the first person to go in to a Wrestlemania Match vs The Undertaker as the favourite.
Undertaker has 2 losses at Mania, one was a genuine shock and the other was a forgone conclusion that Taker would lose.
I been thinking this same thing WWE feels stale because they've been using the exact same formula for 30 years!!!
To quote Doctor Doom from the 2005 Fantastic Four movie:
*"This is gonna be fun."*
“The matches drawing power drastic go down” did you just make a Scott Steiner reference Adam 🤣🤣🤣🤣
One of those reasons why Reigns was no longer superhated aside his second Leukemia battle, is that they got to learn about the man behind the Roman character, Joe.
Didnt edge lay around for like 10-15 minute of this years rumble?
Yeah, his ass stayed in the ring full of dangerous wrestlers too. Randy Orton got hurt and slept backstage until the very end just like Roman Reigns.
@@PhilPower134 ortan didnt win though. Also Roman was a heel and that's a heel tactic. Though I agree that Orton sucks
I completely agree, especially with #3. Even John Cena had good and memorable villains, like JBL, Edge, Randy Orton (before it got old), and even Triple H for a little bit. The hero needs a good villain to help get them over. Iconic Rivalries are what makes up most of WWE history, and so far, the only semi good one Roman was involved with was the fued with Braun Strowman, which was great until WWE nerfed him.
You got me with “drastic go down”
2015 Rumble was the worst Rumble of all time. No one will ever convince me otherwise. Like yeah wrong person won but it was just the fact that only three people in the whole thing got to look good. Everyone else got thrown out like garbage, including Bray who had been the ONLY other person who had STARTED to get any kind of build in the Rumble besides Big Show, Kane, and Reigns. It was just BAFFLING. Like NOTHING HAPPENED.
At least when Batista won, yeah people were upset at the time that he won, but at least THINGS happened in that Rumble. And it wasn't just the same two guys throwing people out like they were worthless. ffs
To me, the worst mistake they did with Roman (like they've done with so many others) was push him before he was actually ready. Yeah, he got over with The Shield, but he was never properly built up as an INDIVIDUAL star (which certainly wasn't gonna happen while continuing to wear the attire of a group that had long been torn apart).
Adam: I live here now.
Does this mean partsfunknown will have a competing livestream of survivor series against wrestletalk? With both channels stopping everything a month before hand and spending the build up in team shirts bragging about BRAND SUPREMACY!!!!!!!
2:49 Did you just do a Steiner Math reference?
Nice. Liked vid.
Why is Triple H constantly treated as a "star" in the Attitude Era? He was the AE's B+ player. He had to be paired with Chyna, then Shawn, then "pick 3 mid-card guys." He was never a star on his own until Daddy-In-Law gave him the ball, which he mistook for a shovel and by then I had already started my sabbatical from WWE fandom.
What were you smoking dude? HHH was the biggest drawing heel of the attitude era.
To be fair, if this heel run as The Head of the Table is indicative of anything, it's how successful Reigns could be as a top babyface. Because the things that make this gimmick really work are the emotions of it, playing off his feeling of responsibility, that the championship is a cross for him to bear, that he didn't want to hurt the Usos and force them to fall in line, he HAD to. Stuff like that show how good he is at playing off of emotions and making people feel things, which is what's so necessary for a babyface
Honestly when it comes to wresting Heels seem to have more range to be able to have something of a personality or a reason for them doing what they do. Like for real in storytelling your antagonist needs to be something everything your hero is not to be the least big compelling and in wrestling it’s actually having flaws or quirks. The reason Taker worked for so long was because he started as a literal horror movie monster
This was brilliant.
Pointing out the fact that fan anger at a babyface isn't them being kayfabed, it's knowing how they'll be booked and getting angry about THAT. To say nothing of the person suffering the most under the One Big Face booking is the One Big Face...wait...
Zardoz to WWE confirmed!
They should have done a story on why roman reigns still had on his sheld gear
3:43 He was The Shield's X-Pac. Same music, gear, mannerisms and so on as when he was in the group where Moxley/ Ambrose and Rollins changed.
It’s not even the Hulk Hogan problem, having one man hold the company on their back has been the model since Bruno Sammartino.
Over half a century of the Superman conquering all odds, etched into the foundation of the company,
I just wanna say that I’m okay with #7 now solely because of Roman’s recent feud with Seth Rollins, but it was still a problem that shouldn’t have taken over a half a decade to fix
As a testament to #2 Cena's feud with Punk in 2012 was beautiful for that reason because the promos they exchanged shed this and let Cena talk straight at Punk, calling him out for all his character flaws and forcing him to defend his actions. Making the heel angry that, yeah, you figured out their little facade and know exactly what's eating them inside is fantastic storytelling because all their barbs, quips, and posturing amount to insecurity and feeling threatened by someone who isn't afraid to call them out.
The intensity and conviction that came from those promos was something WWE hadn't seen in a long time (because during 2011 it was just CM Punk being the one to call it like it is but in 2012 Cena was firing back and it gave something for the audience to invest in).
I agree with everything on this list but I do have one comment to make. We cannot really compare Daniel Bryan to Roman Reigns because Roman Reigns is not an underdog. There's nothing for us to root for because he already has everything. Handsome? ✔ Tall? ✔ Great physique? ✔ Strong lineage? ✔ Well respected? ✔ Beautiful wife? ✔ Lovely family? ✔ Articulate and well-spoken? ✔ No skeletons in his closet? ✔ Who is he going to go against that will make him seem like the underdog? No one. While I personally think that he is a natural heel and is obviously doing his best work, I would really be impressed if he can parlay this great work into a Babyface role that would suit him well.
Adam, I just want you to know that I'm working on having the entire #2 entry etched on my gravestone
The Wrestlemania 32 match was actually pretty good but was ruined by the constant booing from the crowd.
Roman could have literally fired rockets out of his ass but by that point he was so hated it didn't matter what he did.
Hey Adam! In conjunction with the road to wrestlemania, could you do a list of best wrestlemania builds?
He did last year
He did
Where is that? Just saw best video packages and best wrestlemania. Am thinking of wrestlemania builds, e.g. kofimania etc
@@ericng7656 look up wrestletalk lists
I think the “1 top babyface” principle isn’t BAD. It’s just far more difficult to pull off. AWA did it with Verne. WCW did it with Sting and Goldberg. WWE did it obviously with Hulk, Austin, and Cena. But the only way it works is if there is a VERY strong fan connection. Cena was always good it’s just what he was asked to do was garbage. But Cena is still more over now than anyone else other than maybe punk in the past 10 years. He has more name recognition than ANY wrestler in the past 10 years too. It’s a difficult process but when it works money is no issue
New Japan also operates under the ‘Hulk Hogan top-guy’ system, and has done for years. It’s not just a WWE thing
Not even close. "Ace" concept is different from the WWF top guy concept. New japan has the three musketeers whuch used to be chono, hashimoto,mutoh and then Tanahashi, Nakamura,shibata(and now probably naito,okada, Jay white). The point is,at any given time,there are many main eventers for new Japan,so that their top guy doesn't feel overexposed. With all Japan it was four pillars (kawada, misawa,toei, kobashi) each of them could be a top guy at any time.
Not quite. Right now it’s what I call a “big 4” system. 4 guys at the top who can hold the belt and others trying to break into that stratosphere. When I first watched NJPW it was Tanahashi, Okada, Nakamura and Styles. For most of my time watching it was Okada, Omega, Tanahashi and Naito. Right now it’s Ibushi, Okada, Naito and Jay White
@@shahsadsaadu5817 not quite. The thing about the three musketeers and the new three musketeers is that they all came from the same dojo class. The current “three musketeers” you mentioned are all from different dojo classes. White being way younger than Naito or Okada. Also, you forgot about out world champion Kota Ibushi
@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodsm4708 new japan dojo. The point is every japanese wrestling promotion has more than one top guy. There would be multiple Homefront stars(naito,tana,okada) top gaijins(jay white,omega) free lancers(ibushi),with how much influence 90s all Japan has on new japan,you would not be far from wrong to say that there is a "big 4" system, like the 4 pillars of heaven (misawa,kawada, kobashi toei).
@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodsm4708 and no, naito,okada and white are from the same dojo, which is the new japan dojo.
The 2015 rumble was definitely one of the most baffling things in wrestling that i’ve ever seen. By far the worst rumble match of all time.
Great video other then saying all the baby face champs since cena were bad because Drew is amazing as a baby face champion think
Adam's man crush on Keith Lee is underrated and hilarious 🤣🤣
Not turning him heel sooner. This is his best character ever!
2015 rumble ending is one of the funniest
Interesting to look at in hindsight now that Cena vs Roman headlined SummerSlam. It was aparently the biggest SummerSlam of all time (despite being a HIGHLY dubious show, shut up, I don't care how much you liked it) which Roman (in character) claimed credit for, but the actual match between Cena and Roman was... probably worse than their previous one? Cena's psychology was all sort of wrong anyway. But do you think it might have been an even BIGGER draw if this was the first time Roman had cleanly beaten Cena? Maybe.
I don't get why they think missing part of a match where you can lose at anytime, but cannot win at at any time, could ever possibly be heroic. If you get pulled out of a triple threat on a stretcher and come back, sure you got a rest but the match could have ended with you in the back. That can't happen in the royal rumble. Absolute nonsense.
1. Daniel Bryan comes back AT THE RUMBLE, AS A SURPRISE RETURN, UNANNOUNCED. giant pop, cheers forever, he WINS THE RUMBLE and goes on to face Bork Losler at Mania, where he wins in a David vs Goliath type match in the main event, very similar to their SS18 match, which was amazing.
2. instead of setting up Sting vs Triple H for Mania (you can do that at SummerSlam if you really want to), have Undertaker show up during one of Bray Wyatt's taunt promos (he didn't even show up to any promo irl, it was really weird) and then Sting comes back to face the 2 of them. Triple Threat, Sting vs Bray Wyatt vs The Undertaker. you get 3 dream matches in one go: Wyatt vs Taker, Sting vs Taker and Sting vs Wyatt. also, set it to be later in the card so it can happen in darkness.
3. Triple H can face Randy Orton. book it as "13 years in the making" yadda yadda. sounds fun. if not, and if you HAVE to have Rocky at Mania, LET HIM AND TRIPLE H HAVE A GO.
4. Shield Triple Threat. OBVIOUSLY. let it build up with the story you booked in your fantasy booking, let them go 30-35 minutes with some insane spots, maybe bring in a chair, symbolic of the breakup.
5. have some of the people in the ladder match be replaced by high flyers and let them do a flippity floppity ladder match. also, if you book Rock vs HHH instead of Orton vs HHH, let Orton go here to hit some RKO's. idk, I think Neville diving from a ladder in a Red Arrow dive only to get hit by, to get struck by, a smooth RKO sounds like mad fun.
6. Miz vs Mizdow. the pre-show battle royale was not enough.
and just like that, WrestleMania 31 is a stacked deck, maybe one of the best of all time, and the Rumble doesn't suck.
Thanks for turning WrestleTwats from a 99.6% useless subscription to a 100% one, Mr. Plumpy.
HHH vs Reigns was a subjective match. I thought it was good but I didn't like the pacing. They should have started throwing blows when they got in the ring.