I think 17 pdr overperformes right now. It can easily outgun every Axis division at 2k range that got no access to Elefant or Tiger II and comes in great numbers too.
This won’t help me stop embarrassing myself in tank on tank fights but it will help me understand why I’m embarrassed. I have reach an enlightened state of acceptance. I feel Steel Division 2 zen upon me.
The reason hellcat apcr is different dropoff because its not actually an APCR round it fires. It is a different type of round but to add a new bullettype to the game would be a lot more effort for Eugene, they decided to add it in as an APCR and change the Values some. The one I learned actually recently was that APCR always crits, just doesnt show.
The fact the Americans get their APCR at all is cheeky - they only arrived for limited field trials in September 1944. Eugen refuses to add the Jagdtiger because it arrived too late for the time period of the game. Jagdtigers hit the field in September 1944. Similar story for the Germans - they suspended APCR production in 1943 due to material shortages, and even recycled many already-produced rounds to make up for shortages elsewhere (tungsten is vital for machine tools). They'd have virtually none by early-mid 1944 in which the game takes place.
Nice video. Here are my thoughts after watching and analyzing the data in the chart myself: AP and APCR both have penetration curves that are relative or percentage based, not absolute. In other words, there is no standard of X mm of pen lost at Y range (including this since you spoke of "general drop-off of guns" at 16:25). APCR's curve is steeper (loses a greater % of base pen), except for the M10 and M18 Hellcat APCR/HVAP/whatever it is, which has the same pen curve as the Panther's AP shells; other viewers have more info on that. However, APCR base pen is so much higher than AP that it still maintains a pen advantage at all ranges. It looks like we may have some rough rules of thumb regarding pen drop-off. At 1/3 of a gun's/ammo's max range, it loses only 5-10 mm of pen (ironic considering I just spoke of relativity) for both AP and APCR. At 2/3 of a gun's/ammo's max range, it has 80-90% of its base pen. At max range, the gun's/ammo has 65-75% of base pen. These might be hard to remember and figure out mid-match, but they'll get you pretty close. Finally, it seems APCR should be toggled for specific engagements rather than left on by default. +1 to Eugen for creating a mechanic that rewards micro and game knowledge, -1 for not explaining the mechanic in the first place.
instead of developing bigger guns to consistently pen bigger/heavier german tanks the us army developed top notch apcr shells so that even an normal M4 sherman was capable of engaging german tanks. This got so sophisticated that the m26 90mm apcr shell was capable of penetrating up to 300mm of armour
The critical damage info is fascinating & it's great to know that even the ones with no message actually exceed the 3 damage I thought. Now we know why the 45mm M42 gun is such a nuissance.
This tallies with my experience with AT guns. They seem to have a golden range at about 1000 - 1250m and this explains why. Most of the drop off is in the last section of the range and at this range they are still getting most of the penetrating value (whilst still being out of MG range).
If I remember correctly, there is a complicated formula to calculate drop off. It is a % of the base value that depends on the distance compared to max range and on a variable that depends on the gun. So a gun with a higher base pen will lose more penetration in absolute term but the same % compared to another gun with same max range and the same variable.
Great video AP! Very helpful, I had no idea and I’ve also been playing for years. Would this make pumas actually useful? Since they are so quick, and APCR has a 50% chance of Insta-killing enemy tanks hit from the back… Could you make an argument that that is how you should use them?
I still think the APCR on Pumas has limited use cases. It dies in one shot meaning getting more than one shot off is unlikely in general. and finding a rear armor shot is VERY difficult cause tanks just auto turn the minute they spot an enemy
Back shots seem pretty optimistic, yeah. You can sometimes force side shot with positioning, but even that depends on map and situation. And if you can, even great medium tanks have bad side armor. APCR to sides is pretty nice vs the 200 cost tanks, though. They have enough side armor that the extra pen and chance for one shot is more attractive. Now to just convince the opponent to move it forward...
This matches my attitude over the years towards tank fighting in SD2. I've heard people saying X tank should not penetrate Y tank at Z range bla bla bla... I've always said that focussing too much on the numbers isn't the full story & it's better to base your decisions on experience. You get a feel for the ranges tanks fight efficiently at, how powercul & accurate their guns are & how often the tend to win/lose in certain matchups over time. Obsessing on the raw figures is a mistake. Of course, if you're plinking 45mm rounds off the front of a Jumbo, the figures are clear. You are not winning that lottery, no matter what but perhaps your puny AT gun will attract enough attention for a 75mm to get a cheeky side shot on the Jumbo. Go with your gut instincts & try not to get too frustrated then the RNG gods don't grant you those lucky rolls.
APCR doesnt (or shouldnt) drop-off faster than AP, it doesn't irl (it drops-off less) and it also doesnt always in game. It depends on shell velocity, which depends per gun (as we can see from every gun having a different drop-off rate) The drop-off is exponential, (air resistance scales by velocity squared), so it makes sense the dropoff is greatest at the end of the range.
APCR does drop off faster by design to achieve higher velocity due to shell weight, so it is historically accurate, I just thought it was more dramatic
@@atkpwrgaming yeah i mixed it up with apds and the sort, which, while also starting at much higher velocities like apcr, dont lose as much velocity to drag as acpr, and are better at range than ap. And i dont know how sd2 deals with that, since the 57mm 6pdr for example could fire ap, apcr, and apds (and did use all of them in ww2)
I usually let tanks shoot their APCR until i manually decide not to. Turns out that APCR is overall better because of crits. Is there a public link to that spreadsheet?
When calculating real life penetration numbers I recall the Soviets used a 50% chance of an amount of fragments entering the vehicle for the number, and I believe the US and Germans used similar metrics. It is also part of the reason why they always hold fire if possible, you want to make sure your target has less than a 50% chance it can shoot back if you’re going to reveal yourself. Also, do you know where we can find other stat sheets like this? I heard there’s one for small arms as well but can’t find it for the life of me.
While there may be a historical reason for the US APCR being so good (I do know late-war US APCR had some crazy penetration values), I'm pretty sure it is done for balancing purposes. Without it, the US lacks any 2K AT in most of its divisions.
They apparently historically had more effective shells called HVAPCR or something that really did perform better, they didn't want to make another type of shell in game and just rolled them into APCR
@bottle-xz5hp NOV's best ground AT capability is the M.40n 75mm. It has 1750 range, 190mm pen with APCR and 140 pen with AP. If you take it phase A, you get 3 at most, or 5 in B. Can't take it C. NOV's 2nd best AT capability is 50mm AT gun. You get 6 in A at most. It has 100mm pen and max range of 1500, so not only king tigers, but even panthers will rarely lose dueling it with frontal armor. After that, you can make an argument for a few things. They have 1250 range, 65mm AT guns. Their howitzer has 110mm pen at 1500 range, but an accuracy of 15%. Sadly, even the S-35 makes a case for 3rd with 70mm pen at 1250. You can even make a case for nonsense like double-vetted, 45mm support mortars simply because you can get a ton of them and their rate of fire under 3 star with a leader is pretty insane. They do get rocket planes and other bombs that will kill tanks, if your crummy arty w/o any radio option can manage to suppress or destroy enemy AA lol.
Does not american and british APCRs get bufs because its actualy HVAP ammo for USA and APDS for britain and APCR is just there to reuse mechanic? Thats just an idea.
@@atkpwrgaming for example t-34-85(д5т): at a distance of half a kilometer, it should have an armor penetration 130mm, not 145mm. That's a lot... There are strange numbers in the game
Check this out! I was able to obtain the table of % chance to penetrate when playing against ATKPWR Gaming! All differences in AP and Armor: 100% (Can't miss, won't miss) GLHF!
from what i remember is that the the American APCR was made differently then the other APCR. It was made to go faster and hit harder than other APCR ammunition of the same Caliber It was a very rare type of munition, as it's core was made out of tungston (like with most APCR), which was hard to come by in the '40's Furhter more, the American APCR had a higher mussle-velocity than the german counterpart. (990 Meters/second for the PaK 40 to 1036 Meters/ Second for the American 76mm) and thus able to keep it's penetrating ablities better. (tho in my opinion, the Panther G's APCR should have the same range, as that thing is even faster with 1130 Meters/Second) in short Higher mussle velocity=better energy retention=more potential Penetration As another side note, While most nations at this time where dickin around with APCR, the Brits already where experimenting and eventually using APDS (also known as just Sabot), which weant even faster and retained it's range better than APCR If they would add this, the 6pdr would for example have a 1750M (instead of the usual 1500M) round with more pen and less damage. Sabot was used unitl the introduction of better HEAT rounds or the APFSDS (dart) rounds, depending on the nation.
You know I like SD II a lot. But the shooting ranges and armor values are terrible in the first place in the vanilla game. I only play the game with the Red Storm 44 Mod. Tiger tanks can take much more hits and despite leading T34-85s that can also shot from 2000 meters they are having an significant range advantage to the most russian tanks except the IS 2s and other few what is historically accurate. Infantry shooting range mg´s down to 900 meters. Squad mg´s 400m, rifle range 300 m, mp´s 110 m. Artillery barages are more devastating than in vanilla. All vehicles and infantry are a bit slower than in original. But for example I like the double speed move opportunity for Infantry that is like the not controllable fleeing speed as long the infantry is not pinned down. Without the Red Storm 44 Mod, the game is only half the fun. To make the long story short, the closer you shot (tanks) the more you penetrate. And I absolutely prefer to play with disabled "automatic go into cover" because at least for infantry there is no significant protection in houses against tanks. The best is to hide the infantry behind houses to show up in the last moment at shortest distance when it comes anti tank actions. With that you can set real traps when enemy tanks or infantry attacks.
Time has shown the vanilla values work way better for gameplay, specially competitve one, that is one of the reasons by red storm is barely played in MP. Its gameplay becomes sluggish and you get a lot of cheese/exploits
@@Thehellhound100 That may be true for competitive games, but I don't play multiplayer anyway. I think it would be more interesting to equip the single player area with better enemy AI and to basically be able to play all scenarios without time pressure. This pure battle for flags and a decreasing timer is purely multiplayer focused. Real combat missions, such as taking over the HQ, an important bridge, and destroying the enemy artillery in the hinterland would make the game much more interesting. The reason why the armor values in the vanilla game are correct is not because they are so historically accurate, but because the opponents compete with divisions of the same team strength and can shoot at each other more or less simultaneously in terms of distance and the penetration power of the respective tank categories hardly differ from each other Of course, it is not allowed or realistic to win even if you are outnumbered by your opponent. Also simply because you'll run out of time if you lose too many flags. That's why I like to play the "Complete Destruction" scenario from time to time to at least switch off the time limit. I think the multiplayer competitions often have more of a chariot racing character than real strategy.
While I also enjoy the mods for historical accuracy, they do become frustrating and horribly imbalanced because (shocker) history was completely imbalanced as well, so for me that takes the fun cause it becomes who has better equipment instead of skill
@@atkpwrgaming Yes, of course in an historicaly accurate scenario and specially in Multiplayer you simply could not play that way foremost when the division sizes are the same. Allied and mainly soviet divisions needed to have more manpower, artillery and tanks. But even then the time pressure avoids a lot of tactical and strategic decisions you could make when you wouldn`t have timer running out. A really cool feature in Army General or even in Multplayer would be "total destruction" scenario but with an exit door of I would call it an honorable retreat for example where the enemy made a total breakthrough at one spot and you are in danger to get encirceld so that you get the order to retreat and to bring at least 60 % of your remaining units to an exit area where you could at least then achive a minor defeat instead of an total defeat. The game still has a big potenzial, only the strategic and tactical opportunities are not fully brought to the top. Just in that case I really miss the strategic freedom that you had like in the old game Sudden Strike. And what is totally missing in SD II are winter scenarios right? But all in all a very good game!!
![Officer Tier List [Starsector]](/img/n.gif)
I think 17 pdr overperformes right now. It can easily outgun every Axis division at 2k range that got no access to Elefant or Tiger II and comes in great numbers too.
Its good, but I wouldn't say outperforms, it is pretty inconsistent
This won’t help me stop embarrassing myself in tank on tank fights but it will help me understand why I’m embarrassed. I have reach an enlightened state of acceptance. I feel Steel Division 2 zen upon me.
HAHAHA love this
Inb4 pause game -> "soz lag" -> pull out giga penetration spreadsheet
Hugely informative, thank you!
LOL exactly haha
The reason hellcat apcr is different dropoff because its not actually an APCR round it fires. It is a different type of round but to add a new bullettype to the game would be a lot more effort for Eugene, they decided to add it in as an APCR and change the Values some.
The one I learned actually recently was that APCR always crits, just doesnt show.
yeah the HVAP
@@czwarty7878HVAP is just the American way of naming the same thing, the shell construction is pretty much identical to APCR from USSR and Germany
The fact the Americans get their APCR at all is cheeky - they only arrived for limited field trials in September 1944.
Eugen refuses to add the Jagdtiger because it arrived too late for the time period of the game. Jagdtigers hit the field in September 1944.
Similar story for the Germans - they suspended APCR production in 1943 due to material shortages, and even recycled many already-produced rounds to make up for shortages elsewhere (tungsten is vital for machine tools). They'd have virtually none by early-mid 1944 in which the game takes place.
Thank you for the clarification!
11:26 "85% of the time - it works everytime" xD
The perfect quote for this video haha
"by the end of the video youll finally understand how the game works " Good information to have after 5 years and the game starting to die out.
Hopefuly it will live on at least two years. I arrived to this game too late a year ago and want to keep playing.
NEVER DIE!!!
Nice video. Here are my thoughts after watching and analyzing the data in the chart myself:
AP and APCR both have penetration curves that are relative or percentage based, not absolute. In other words, there is no standard of X mm of pen lost at Y range (including this since you spoke of "general drop-off of guns" at 16:25). APCR's curve is steeper (loses a greater % of base pen), except for the M10 and M18 Hellcat APCR/HVAP/whatever it is, which has the same pen curve as the Panther's AP shells; other viewers have more info on that. However, APCR base pen is so much higher than AP that it still maintains a pen advantage at all ranges.
It looks like we may have some rough rules of thumb regarding pen drop-off. At 1/3 of a gun's/ammo's max range, it loses only 5-10 mm of pen (ironic considering I just spoke of relativity) for both AP and APCR. At 2/3 of a gun's/ammo's max range, it has 80-90% of its base pen. At max range, the gun's/ammo has 65-75% of base pen. These might be hard to remember and figure out mid-match, but they'll get you pretty close.
Finally, it seems APCR should be toggled for specific engagements rather than left on by default. +1 to Eugen for creating a mechanic that rewards micro and game knowledge, -1 for not explaining the mechanic in the first place.
That last sentence is perfect haha
instead of developing bigger guns to consistently pen bigger/heavier german tanks the us army developed top notch apcr shells so that even an normal M4 sherman was capable of engaging german tanks. This got so sophisticated that the m26 90mm apcr shell was capable of penetrating up to 300mm of armour
Thank you for the information!
The critical damage info is fascinating & it's great to know that even the ones with no message actually exceed the 3 damage I thought. Now we know why the 45mm M42 gun is such a nuissance.
Yeah that was shocking to me as well!
This tallies with my experience with AT guns. They seem to have a golden range at about 1000 - 1250m and this explains why. Most of the drop off is in the last section of the range and at this range they are still getting most of the penetrating value (whilst still being out of MG range).
Agreed!
important information! Thanks for sharing.
Absolutely!
If I remember correctly, there is a complicated formula to calculate drop off. It is a % of the base value that depends on the distance compared to max range and on a variable that depends on the gun. So a gun with a higher base pen will lose more penetration in absolute term but the same % compared to another gun with same max range and the same variable.
Yeah I mention it in there, its a pretty consistent percent drop off that creates more drop off the higher the penetration starts
Great video AP! Very helpful, I had no idea and I’ve also been playing for years.
Would this make pumas actually useful? Since they are so quick, and APCR has a 50% chance of Insta-killing enemy tanks hit from the back… Could you make an argument that that is how you should use them?
I still think the APCR on Pumas has limited use cases. It dies in one shot meaning getting more than one shot off is unlikely in general. and finding a rear armor shot is VERY difficult cause tanks just auto turn the minute they spot an enemy
Back shots seem pretty optimistic, yeah. You can sometimes force side shot with positioning, but even that depends on map and situation. And if you can, even great medium tanks have bad side armor.
APCR to sides is pretty nice vs the 200 cost tanks, though. They have enough side armor that the extra pen and chance for one shot is more attractive.
Now to just convince the opponent to move it forward...
Finally learned what "spalling" crit does
Same hahahja
It is worth pointing out that rof drastically increases accuracy too. Hence my love of Turan 1s
Turan 2s are still waaaaaay better ;)
I wanna see videos were you watch and comment on games again, although i understand if there will be none until the dlc comes out
They are coming, sorry lots of new content to get through!
@@atkpwrgaming Yea i see. And i have thought the other videos have been entertaining enough to watch anyways👍
This matches my attitude over the years towards tank fighting in SD2. I've heard people saying X tank should not penetrate Y tank at Z range bla bla bla...
I've always said that focussing too much on the numbers isn't the full story & it's better to base your decisions on experience. You get a feel for the ranges tanks fight efficiently at, how powercul & accurate their guns are & how often the tend to win/lose in certain matchups over time. Obsessing on the raw figures is a mistake.
Of course, if you're plinking 45mm rounds off the front of a Jumbo, the figures are clear. You are not winning that lottery, no matter what but perhaps your puny AT gun will attract enough attention for a 75mm to get a cheeky side shot on the Jumbo. Go with your gut instincts & try not to get too frustrated then the RNG gods don't grant you those lucky rolls.
Agreed! But it is nice to know the actual numbers and be able to hedge your bets more effectively
APCR doesnt (or shouldnt) drop-off faster than AP, it doesn't irl (it drops-off less) and it also doesnt always in game. It depends on shell velocity, which depends per gun (as we can see from every gun having a different drop-off rate)
The drop-off is exponential, (air resistance scales by velocity squared), so it makes sense the dropoff is greatest at the end of the range.
APCR does lose penetration faster in real life, as the projectiles are lighter (which is how they get the velocity in the first place)
APCR does drop off faster by design to achieve higher velocity due to shell weight, so it is historically accurate, I just thought it was more dramatic
@@atkpwrgaming yeah i mixed it up with apds and the sort, which, while also starting at much higher velocities like apcr, dont lose as much velocity to drag as acpr, and are better at range than ap.
And i dont know how sd2 deals with that, since the 57mm 6pdr for example could fire ap, apcr, and apds (and did use all of them in ww2)
@ev4_gaming I believe SD2 gets around that issue by simply not implementing any APDS, because British equipment isn't allowed to be any good.
I usually let tanks shoot their APCR until i manually decide not to. Turns out that APCR is overall better because of crits.
Is there a public link to that spreadsheet?
Not sure to be honest, check the Eugen discord!
When calculating real life penetration numbers I recall the Soviets used a 50% chance of an amount of fragments entering the vehicle for the number, and I believe the US and Germans used similar metrics. It is also part of the reason why they always hold fire if possible, you want to make sure your target has less than a 50% chance it can shoot back if you’re going to reveal yourself.
Also, do you know where we can find other stat sheets like this? I heard there’s one for small arms as well but can’t find it for the life of me.
Official eugen disсord, ask around there. Also atkpwr should really pin the links in the description or comment :)
I will try to get the links pinned in the description
Is Warno om this level too?
Or is it just more arcady
Do plane with tankbuster cannons fire AP or APCR?
AP
Basically why kv-85 is so strong. Almost immune to stugs and pnzr 4s at 1750m
Correct!
What's the crit chance on regular AP?
No idea, but I would guess pretty low
Sorry, I didn't get the difference between AP and APCR concerning the probability of a crit. Could someone please clear that up for me? Thanks.
APCR gets a critical every time in penetrates. AP has a chance of getting a critical, but its nothing close to 100% like the APCR
While there may be a historical reason for the US APCR being so good (I do know late-war US APCR had some crazy penetration values), I'm pretty sure it is done for balancing purposes. Without it, the US lacks any 2K AT in most of its divisions.
They apparently historically had more effective shells called HVAPCR or something that really did perform better, they didn't want to make another type of shell in game and just rolled them into APCR
@bottle-xz5hp NOV's best ground AT capability is the M.40n 75mm. It has 1750 range, 190mm pen with APCR and 140 pen with AP. If you take it phase A, you get 3 at most, or 5 in B. Can't take it C.
NOV's 2nd best AT capability is 50mm AT gun. You get 6 in A at most. It has 100mm pen and max range of 1500, so not only king tigers, but even panthers will rarely lose dueling it with frontal armor.
After that, you can make an argument for a few things. They have 1250 range, 65mm AT guns. Their howitzer has 110mm pen at 1500 range, but an accuracy of 15%. Sadly, even the S-35 makes a case for 3rd with 70mm pen at 1250. You can even make a case for nonsense like double-vetted, 45mm support mortars simply because you can get a ton of them and their rate of fire under 3 star with a leader is pretty insane.
They do get rocket planes and other bombs that will kill tanks, if your crummy arty w/o any radio option can manage to suppress or destroy enemy AA lol.
Does not american and british APCRs get bufs because its actualy HVAP ammo for USA and APDS for britain and APCR is just there to reuse mechanic?
Thats just an idea.
The Americans do, thats what it is
Why the armor penetration is not decreasing. 500 meters is the same as 0 meters
It is physically impossible
I guess the velocity has not experienced enough of a drop off to decrease pen. It’s also a game so there’s that 😅
@@atkpwrgaming for example t-34-85(д5т): at a distance of half a kilometer, it should have an armor penetration 130mm, not 145mm. That's a lot... There are strange numbers in the game
The truth revealed 😂
Finally!
Check this out! I was able to obtain the table of % chance to penetrate when playing against ATKPWR Gaming!
All differences in AP and Armor: 100% (Can't miss, won't miss)
GLHF!
LOL This
apcr for americans while similar is not the same as far as im aware its called HVAP in real life HVAP = High velocity armour piercing
Thank you!
from what i remember is that the the American APCR was made differently then the other APCR. It was made to go faster and hit harder than other APCR ammunition of the same Caliber
It was a very rare type of munition, as it's core was made out of tungston (like with most APCR), which was hard to come by in the '40's
Furhter more, the American APCR had a higher mussle-velocity than the german counterpart. (990 Meters/second for the PaK 40 to 1036 Meters/ Second for the American 76mm) and thus able to keep it's penetrating ablities better.
(tho in my opinion, the Panther G's APCR should have the same range, as that thing is even faster with 1130 Meters/Second)
in short Higher mussle velocity=better energy retention=more potential Penetration
As another side note, While most nations at this time where dickin around with APCR, the Brits already where experimenting and eventually using APDS (also known as just Sabot), which weant even faster and retained it's range better than APCR
If they would add this, the 6pdr would for example have a 1750M (instead of the usual 1500M) round with more pen and less damage.
Sabot was used unitl the introduction of better HEAT rounds or the APFSDS (dart) rounds, depending on the nation.
It doesn't feel very rare when your opponent keeps reloading it haha
its better not to know how this game works... 🙈🙉🙊
Hahaha thats half the fun is figuring out the mystery of the game mechanics
You know I like SD II a lot. But the shooting ranges and armor values are terrible in the first place in the vanilla game. I only play the game with the Red Storm 44 Mod. Tiger tanks can take much more hits and despite leading T34-85s that can also shot from 2000 meters they are having an significant range advantage to the most russian tanks except the IS 2s and other few what is historically accurate. Infantry shooting range mg´s down to 900 meters. Squad mg´s 400m, rifle range 300 m, mp´s 110 m. Artillery barages are more devastating than in vanilla. All vehicles and infantry are a bit slower than in original. But for example I like the double speed move opportunity for Infantry that is like the not controllable fleeing speed as long the infantry is not pinned down. Without the Red Storm 44 Mod, the game is only half the fun. To make the long story short, the closer you shot (tanks) the more you penetrate. And I absolutely prefer to play with disabled "automatic go into cover" because at least for infantry there is no significant protection in houses against tanks. The best is to hide the infantry behind houses to show up in the last moment at shortest distance when it comes anti tank actions. With that you can set real traps when enemy tanks or infantry attacks.
Time has shown the vanilla values work way better for gameplay, specially competitve one, that is one of the reasons by red storm is barely played in MP. Its gameplay becomes sluggish and you get a lot of cheese/exploits
@@Thehellhound100 That may be true for competitive games, but I don't play multiplayer anyway. I think it would be more interesting to equip the single player area with better enemy AI and to basically be able to play all scenarios without time pressure. This pure battle for flags and a decreasing timer is purely multiplayer focused. Real combat missions, such as taking over the HQ, an important bridge, and destroying the enemy artillery in the hinterland would make the game much more interesting. The reason why the armor values in the vanilla game are correct is not because they are so historically accurate, but because the opponents compete with divisions of the same team strength and can shoot at each other more or less simultaneously in terms of distance and the penetration power of the respective tank categories hardly differ from each other Of course, it is not allowed or realistic to win even if you are outnumbered by your opponent. Also simply because you'll run out of time if you lose too many flags. That's why I like to play the "Complete Destruction" scenario from time to time to at least switch off the time limit. I think the multiplayer competitions often have more of a chariot racing character than real strategy.
While I also enjoy the mods for historical accuracy, they do become frustrating and horribly imbalanced because (shocker) history was completely imbalanced as well, so for me that takes the fun cause it becomes who has better equipment instead of skill
@@atkpwrgaming Yes, of course in an historicaly accurate scenario and specially in Multiplayer you simply could not play that way foremost when the division sizes are the same. Allied and mainly soviet divisions needed to have more manpower, artillery and tanks. But even then the time pressure avoids a lot of tactical and strategic decisions you could make when you wouldn`t have timer running out. A really cool feature in Army General or even in Multplayer would be "total destruction" scenario but with an exit door of I would call it an honorable retreat for example where the enemy made a total breakthrough at one spot and you are in danger to get encirceld so that you get the order to retreat and to bring at least 60 % of your remaining units to an exit area where you could at least then achive a minor defeat instead of an total defeat. The game still has a big potenzial, only the strategic and tactical opportunities are not fully brought to the top. Just in that case I really miss the strategic freedom that you had like in the old game Sudden Strike. And what is totally missing in SD II are winter scenarios right?
But all in all a very good game!!