Submarines - Testing T10
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Another dive into the Submarines, this time at Tier 10 with actual captain perks for the class. Some improvements, but the core issues are still huge, and WG seems to be no closer to resolving them.
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The core issue of "emptiness", the vast majority of ships being stealthy or not taking part in active combat, leaving the seas feeling empty, is a huge issue on the large T10 maps. I still haven't heard squat from WG about how they intend to address that glaring issue. Other than that, what do you think of the subs?
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Subs need to go back to the drawing board. They never finished CV's.
I mean all they would need to do is limit the submarine count per game to one per team, limit the carriers to one per team, limit destroyers to two per team and then voila, surface ships galore.
No Thanks . . . premium account time almost done, then i'm outta here. 🍆🤏 F**K WG
U2501 is a type XXI and was far faster underwater than the USS Balao and had far faster reloading torpedoes. She was also far quieter when assembled properly not in a barn by slave labour. but i think you should have been a dev the game would be far better.
Well CV's are limited so why not the same for subs? I do like that they are moving away from the operate below surface all the time to dive when you have to. Kinda like a DD smoke scren. WW II submarines was more submersible ships. Even german doctrine said to attack on the surface using their artellirery instead of torpedoes.
Video starts
He is going 29.8 kn while slowing down
hmmm ... google Balao
Top speed 20.5 kn
Of course!
Everything you can expect in the very first shot, still will not ping afk carriers though.
An underwater Fletcher I guess.
After all post war upgrades, taking all that sweet German tech...
that's gunna be the surface speed as well, you'd do like 10kn max while submerged
I sure hope the tier 6 subs will have their speeds nerfed, how will the slow BBs of tiers 5 and 6 counter?
These boats would do 10kt at most submerged
Here he goes 26kt underwater
Did you ever hear about the tragedy of the Type XXI? It is not a story WG would like to tell you...
The Type XXI was designed to be the first true submarine. It could stay underwater for days. It was much faster underwater than its contemporaries. It could recharge its batteries via a snorkel. It had mechanically assisted reloading of its torpedoes so it could fire three sets of six torpedoes in twenty minutes. Had a very good passive sonar system and had acoustic homing torpedoes.
It truly was a revolutionary design. But such mastery of submarine design could never be allowed by WG for the Germans. So they gave most of unique features to other nations and turned the Type XXI into a laughing stock.
Iconic...
The V-million was powered by gold bars and rocket fuel...Ok Bobby, I think you've had enough of the morphine.
Is it possible to learn this abilities?
@@felixwiedemann9395 not from the Germans!
@@ocko8011 *pervitin
@@gluesniffingdude or: Panzerschokolade ("tankchocolate")
Oh boy, can't wait to push in with my battleships and have an amazing time, maybe even better then a double cv game
You can already kind of experience it, just play a destroyer and end up with a carrier battle ;)
Works best if carrier is top tier and you are bottom tier.
@@petiertje To be fair any CV with a brain can shit on any ship they please. DDs' just feel it more because their primary means of survivability (stealth) is completely negated.
Pushing in you'll have a fine time probably, especially if you stick with your team. Much like vs CVs, if you get separated from your team they'll rip you a new asshole.
Subs can pick apart distant BBs, but they don't want to get into a push because enemy CV, DD, or CA can spot and obliterate you easily. If you get caught out subs are insanely easy to kill, and have no ability to escape things like DDs if there's hydro spotting them.
This just gets more true at lower tiers, at low tiers subs are weaker tier for tier, and shorter range, and have less dive time. End result is they REALLY can't get involved in multi-ship fights.
So if you like to play long range sniping BBs yeah you might be sad, but if you are more of a push in player, you may not even notice they exist. They'll even remove enemy team slots from DDs probably, which would be more dangerous for you when pushing.
Also note sub Alpha and DPM isn't great, it's just more reliable/safer. It can REALLY hurt cruisers if they fuck up and you get to hit one, but BB's, particularly the heavier BBs with heavy torpedo protection and high HP like the Yamato, take very little damage per hit. It's your ability to harass them non-stop over time that can be powerful, which you can avoid as a BB by blobbing with your team harder.
It seems insanely hard for subs to have meaningful game impact, so my biggest gripe is that it looks like we'll be seeing 15 man teams where 2 slots on each side are these worthless subs that just annoy your out of position BB players before running out of bat and dying pathetically.
I know it's frustrating, but if you think about it, nowadays battleships are obsolete because cheaper (or at lest more useful, talking about CV) ships can deal the same or even more damage than them, with a CV u could bomb coasts and fight enemy ships without they knowing from where they were getting attacked, it's sad but it's how it also happened in real life
"Because of course no carrier was ever sunk by a submarine... Yorktown and Taiho were removed from the game, so they don't count" - a WG employee, probably
What about Ark Royal?
@@VeteranMercer3426 That was exactly my question!
Shinano
Shokaku
HMS Eagle
As General MacArthur aptly described it, "old ships never sink, they just fade away".
Battleship players are going to have fun time when subs come out.
Thats why i left the game 😆
The training room is the funniest experience you can have in this game at the moment.
I really like the asw plane mechanics playing as bb
BB players are going to play another game when subs come out.
Not if I stop playing 😏
"you just really suck at supporting in any way"
So in other words flamu, more misery for cruisers and BB's since subs are going to focus on those, yep wargaming yep yep, we really need more incentives to stop people playing cruisers and BB players are masochists because they're used to getting hammered
I don't think they ever stopped drinking.
I'm not even surprised anymore. BBs keep getting the short end of the stick every single time. The only good thing that happened to BBs in a long time was the Dead Eye update, even tho it was too strong, but it actually gave BBs something that wasn't shite.
After its removal, what changed? Nothing. BBs still snipe, tho less accurate, because getting within 15km of an enemy DD and CA, you'll be spammed by HE and on fire 24/7 while trying to dodge torps. Now we'll have to worry about another invisible threat throwing out torps that reload in...what, 20s? And that can do citadel damage...6 of those torps did 38k of damage to that GK. Un-dodgeable damage, no amount of slowing down and turning will help you against them.
@@NecroFlex 30km range Yamato, can corner camp and still hit everyone 🥲
DDs gets killed by CVs without any effort. BBs and CAs now dying to Subs. But Subs on its own just stop being alive if DD anywhere near.
WoWS 2015 balance: Rock-Paper-Scissors.
WoWS 2021 balance: Shit-Fan-Dumpsterfire.
@@arch_2076 if i maxed out my Vermont, i could get around 34.1km with spotter, because the USN have the plotting room modification, but the stock 24km is more than enough, especially when you activate spotter. Shells are slow so thry take like 25s to get there at max range
Warming's motto should be: Always finding a new way to fuck up our products
They had such a good set up for submarines too, then they fucked it completely with this new downgrade of subs
Subs that have high mobility? Excuse me what, literally impossible.
I mean seeing t10 is basically cold war shit now the Alfa class sub could out do 55knots underwater
The only Sub that reached faster submerged speeds than surfaced speed (Submerged=16,5kn; Surfaced=15,3kn) was the German Type XXI class, which is (as expected) the TX of German subs. Its also the direct father of the modern Submarine and it, for the first time, was a submarine actually designed to operate mainly underwater as opposed to surfaced main operations. It was also blisteringly fast submerged compared to anything at the time, the Balao couldnt even hit 9kn submerged. So yeah. Submarines got only really fast way into the Cold War with Nuclear-Power and better technology, but in WW2, the only Sub that should be somewhat maneuverable and fast submerged should be the XXI. And I dont want it to be historically acurate, just some vague representation ingame as the Type XXI is the most unique and technologically advanced War-Time and Immediate Post-War Submarine to date
Interesting Tidbit: The Type XXI served up until 1982 and the last remaining Submarine of its class is the "Wilhelm Bauer" sitting in Germany as a Museum ship.
@@tramachi7027 It is German, weegee cant have a German anything be good. Although I guarantee the Russian T10 (which should be basically a copy of the type xxi) will be better in every way.
To quote WG "because gameplay reasons" cus ya know subs are SLOW as FUCK IRL (where in ww2 at least) and we all know everyone hates SLOW ships (US bbs for example).
@@briant.d.8598 WeeGee can make good German CVS tho
they've backed themselves in a corner with this one, literally no winning move
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
WeeGee: You just activated my trap card!
Completely agree. It’s almost the same as with carriers. There is no real way to balance them to make it fair or rewarding for both sides.
@@f4t4lity0r4 Carriers can be balanced imo, but this looks bad
@@f4t4lity0r4 you can balance cv. Its simple you fire planes at ships like guns. First you fire air craft into a target area and you get charges to attack stuff in the target zone. Then fire torp runs or bombs and let the ai do its thing based on the accuracy of the shot.
This is just so aggressively stupid I don't know what to say, sure I get that WG is desperately trying to introduce new stuff so they can keep people in the hamster wheel of grinding but is there really no consideration for fun and balance?
I used to really like wows before it became saturated with gimmick ships and stuff with little to no counterplay.
Happy to see nothings really changed with this disastrous feature. My reply to this is the same as it was when it was first announced. Subs have no place in the game in it's current form. Subs suffer worse than carriers do in a match maker shoebox game map. Attempting to balance them leads to crappy gameplay because what both ship types need is a much larger map with proper objectives that suit their intended roles. WoW would greatly benefit from a huge map with permanent non capturable ports and capturable ports that must be supplied to be effectively used. Obviously this would be a significant change from a match maker based game to one with a persistent server. Old timers might remember Air Warrior had a similar setup and it was epic fun. Back then we had superior gameplay but very low res graphics. Now we have stunning graphics, the art department really is insanely good, but the gameplay is underwhelming to say the least and this feature will lead to frustrating gameplay for many.
War Thunder's Enduring Confrontation mode is something WeeGee should be taking notes from.
This. +1
Why dont they do something like that in Missions. Have a actual story line, of protect, punish and provide. start of easy progressively get harder. at the end, if you pass all missions, free ship or sub. They sort of do this in campaigns but its not really story based. Even the xmas and new year things never made sense. Although I pick at team to play for, and all that, I never saw anything come of it. Same as the dockyard thing. I still dont know haw this works, I can complete 27 of 35 missions or objectives which include purchasing a premium tier 3 ship when I playing with tier 8 9 and 10. Its didnt make sense to me. Sure I wanted the promised package at the end, a tier 9 cruiser and tier 10 battleship but I am not going to purchase a ship in real money I think it was like 17 australian dollars to continue it. This was only objective 8 or 9 of a 35 objective mission line
It was great to learn about Air Warrior; I never heard of that game before, I will be studying that game further along with its contemporaries of its period. It does really seem a lot of the very nice and well implemented ideas are exclusive to the 80s 90s and at most the early 2000s. I think the low res graphics actually helped improve game quality because more effort could be put into gameplay features, and more could be done with a smaller team. I think also the market being less mature helped; companies not yet realizing they should spam microtransactions and gacha mechanics, or that they should sacrifice gameplay for profit.
I find the low res graphic point particularly interesting because I myself was thinking of making a game with War Thunder or World of Warships alike gameplay but with very retro graphics on purpose. More and more do I realize that even a company as big as World of Warships can actually struggle to compete with a single coder who knows what they're doing, especially if you simplify things to how games were made in the 90s. Now in the 2020s we have Web Assembly, which now is mature enough to run those same games from the 90s and 2000s at the same performance but completely in a web browser with no download required.
I wonder if now we could enter a renaissance where we go back to low res superior gameplay games, where players frustrated from games like World of Warships team up to develop open-source lightweight browser games comparable to Air Warrior perhaps. I really see the potential and strength of the communities behind these crumbling games like World of Warships; maybe it's time we put things into our own hands. At the very least I will give my concept an attempt. I think the 21st century has proven that capitalism and games cannot mix, and the only way we can keep a stable game alive and as fun as possible is for it to be a community volunteering effort.
LOL, different nations have different ping speeds? So people can control speed of sound in water now? this is turning into a sci-fi game.
It's always been, pal.
Sorry, but even all Sci-Fi I ever read (a LOT) never changed things like speed of sound/light etc, because that would just be plain stupid. You could not get away with that in any setting, EXCEPT the WGs BS-Land.
Wow is a arcade game,why poeple think there is anything realistic?
@@2fame4name24 because they used and will use that argument themself to buff or nerf anything that they wan't or think is too strong or weak... so yes its valid to use the argument
@Vincent Ray Do you think a battleships can go up to 30knots in like 25sec? Just throw this realisim thing in the trash and get over it...game balance should be above realisim
The most famous nation in the world for their WW2 era subs also has the flat out worst ones. Good job Wargaming.
Not only most famous but also most advanced subs. But US gets their Balao with all post war upgrades after getting that sweet German tech... Of course, German sub gets shafted. Typical WGing BS.
It's unfucking fassbar... 😵
Even the French get better subs...
@@AKUJIVALDO Tbh, the Balao's and also the Tench class were outstanding submarine designs even before the numerous GUPPY updates they recieved after the war.
The German U-Boats and the US Fleet boats at their core were two totally different design philosophies.
Long story short, the USN Fleet boats were not that bad as some people think and also the German U-Boats were not the uber-machines like some people think.
The USN Navy fleet boats did a tremendous job in the Pacific sinking 30% of the Japanese Navy and 54% of the Japanese Merchant Navy.
@@GeorgHaeder your comment avoided reality which I pointed out in my first comment. Is that hard to acknowledge reality? Long story short, either acknowledge reality that only after GUPPY upgrades US subs become as good as they are remembered now or go learn some history.
Also, Japanese weren't defending their trade fleet for a long time from US subs, which made US subs job way easier than UBoats...
I can't put into words how un-fun this looks.
Well said.
I for one am excited :) I'm so glad youtube won't show my dislike counter :))
Hey some people actually like something different than the repetitive surface ship gameplay.
The game itself is fucking boring.
@Whompy Whomperson The submarines are new mechanics, they'll improve over time, and there are worse submarine games
Why do they even have to add homing torpedoes? No other class gets homing torpedoes, so why do the submarines get them? Makes no sense to me
Because they have to constantly ruin the experience. They are slowly ruining the game. When legends came out it was great because it was slightly stripped back version, but now it has carriers which changes the nature of the game. Subs will end it for me.
Many WW2 sub used to have acoustic torpedo which is a homing torp. (Both US and Germany used). Surface ships like destroyers dont really used acoustic torpedo. They used simple torps. Probably WG got the idea from there.
@@DeteCT0R Yes, they did have those. However, their homing was only passive and you had to use a certain amount of skill on getting the torpedo to the point where it could track the target. With the German torpedo they even had instructions that the U-boat dives to at least 60 meters after firing the torpedo, to prevent it locking onto the sub and thereby sinking herself.
Because, they can sell Premium Surface Ships with homing torps . . .
I mean homing is ok for me. But ignoring torpedoprotection and Do cits? Or just add one of this. Cits or homing.
My reaction of halland forward depth charges: OHHH so that is why they removed friendly fire
Also so sub can sit back with homing torps that might hit allies.
Of course the most modern Submarine of it's time get's hit with the German Curse in WoWs lol
The first real submarine ever . . . but . . .it was german. So you´re right.
*Angry Kriegsmarine Uboat Noises*
The Halland from 10:29 game here, GG and lol @ that sub on your team calling me out for cheating because he didn't seem to understand you can damage con pings to stop torps from homing, and then eating a full volley of depth charges.
Kinda potatoed when engaging you dropping charges too soon, but expected to die so wanted to get some off :p
Edit: I should probably add that the sub-player who went off on me did apologize in DMs afterwards, so atleast he realized his mistake and owned up to it. :)
So the Germans, who are much better known for their U-Boats thna their surface fleet (post WW1 anyway), have the shittiest subs? GG WG, your hatred for Germany knows no bounds. :(
Not exactly right. The money from german players is very welcome to WG.
@@smokeyjoe4078 Then wouldnt they want to give them good shit to keep getting more of their money?
By mid war the mainline German U-boat was much inferior to new US models, especially wrt to hydro, radar, reliability and endurance. The "revolutionary" designs (XXI) deployed at war's end were fragile prototypes rushed into production out of desperation; they were more dangerous to their crews than allied shipping. However, they did point the way to future sub design by countries with sufficient engineering capacity. Having said that, they were pretty similar to various Allied designs that were not implemented as the current boats were good enough and there was no need to disrupt production, training and logistics.
That’s a serious eyeroll- what is arguably the first “real” submarine is inferior to the opposition in game *because German*.
@@jaywerner8415 the trick is to make the normal tech tree ships bad and the premium german stuff good. Not sure whether or not WG has done this, but it would be the best way to farm money from wehraboos
I sincerely hope that subs will be part of a different game mode. I simply do not want them in my matches.
Nobody wants them, but WG thinks different. I hope for a different Game-Mode too . . .but . . .its WG . . .so its not gonna happen . . .sadly.
wishful thinking. EVERYTHING comes to Randoms eventually.
They should make a special game mode for subs and CVs with bots playing as BBs and cruisers then have a BB/cruiser/DD only game mode for everyone else
Why is it these comments pop up over and over. Waah, I just want to have surface ship battles. You clowns realize you're playing with WW1 and WW2 era ships right? And IRL they had subs and aircraft in both wars right? You all sounds like the admiralty back in the day that wanted to ban submarines and shit because it interfered with the way they wanted to fight naval battles... stroking their big guns LOL. Variety in this game is a good thing its been getting stale for a long time...
@@ec5838 IRL the rise of aircraft carriers and true submarines rendered gun ships obsolete leading to their withdrawal and decommissioning. So including them in the game together with gun ships immediately makes two out of the five ship classes inherently weaker and obsolete. Plus the CV game mechanics are poorly thought out and unfun; they take away from the game rather than adding to it.
Say what you will about the god awful balance, but the art team is carrying their ass off again... those ping sounds are so cool
can never complain abotu the art team. *EVERYTHING ELSE HOWEVER*
I feel you can't blame the devs either. It's the higher-ups who want to keep pushing on a full release because, similar to CV rework, WG has invested so much into it now they need a finished product for stakeholders to be happy...
If anything the devs involved with the balance did a good job taking player feedback, but honestly, this is flawed by design in a game like WoWS
@@San4311 At the end of the day as long as WOWS is Free to Play then its doomed. The only way to make up costs is to add gimmicks to buy that are power crept so its a vicious cycle. They just need to make the game mandatory $15 a month to play and focus on balance, new game modes and maps. As long as its Free to Play the game is doomed.
@@ColoradoStreaming 15 dollars a month?! We're not all whales you know!
LMAO.
TIL the speed of sound in water depends on the nationality of the ship emitting the sound.
And people still say WG does things for realism.
But in any case, it seems like WG has completely given up on even pretending to know the word "counterplay" exists.
Im confused doesnt everything in game have a way to counter subs?
@@Dragonmaster6587 Everything in the game has a way to counter CVs too.
@@FNLNFNLN well thats just shooting doen their planes and killing them at the end of the match
For subs you got DDs that can depth charge em
CVs that can depth charge em
BBs that can depth charge em from a long distance away heck if BBs work together and launch multiple depth planes on a spotted Sub its basically dead
Theres also HE doing damage when near the surface
@@Dragonmaster6587 You can attack them =/= good counterplay.
Being able to attack them is the bare minimum mechanics requirement for a PvP game.
Counterplay is how varied and interesting the strategies to fight the enemy are.
As you say, every ship in the game can shoot down planes and maybe kill the cv at the end of the match.
But that's just one option, it's not particularly effective, nor is it particularly fun or interesting.
Same with subs. Ok, you can drive by depth charge them. How is that in any way interesting for you or the sub?
You can burn their dive time and force them to the surface. How is that in any way interesting for you or the sub?
What interesting choices do either of these mechanics interactions offer to either player?
@@FNLNFNLN Well its intresting for the sub by trying to stay undetected and still get damage and dodge destroyers, for other ships not so much
What kinda fluid did WG fill the map with, no way in hell subs are that agile
Blue whip cream? your guess is as good as mine.
lube. simple lube from the next pornstore.
Did you not realise that Russia is bordered by an ocean of Vodka?
Considering their recent blunders wargaming ocean are definitely filled to the brim with stupid juice
i'd offer WG some feedback but we all know where that would end up, just wish they kept Subs in a special game mode
In the trash/spam folder next to the SEKRET DOKUMENTS. (was going to put a Hillary Clinton email joke here but....is that even funny anymore?)
So the BBs are yet again XP pinatas. Pardon, I mean "they must tank damage for the team".
When he spam stops, BBs will take their place back for tanking.
wow, over 10KM homing torpss
and finally i can get easy credits with paolo by just rushing submarines now lmao
Best match ever:
5 DDs
2 CVs
5 submarines
Who needs other classes anyway?
It's called the battle of the Atlantic.
*"Battle of the Atlantic Vibes"*
Even better: 4 dds, 2 cvs, 4 subs, 1 heavy crusier, 1 bb. The cruiser and the BB dont see an enemy ship all game long and just die to Torpedo and Aircraft Spam
This is painful on every level.
My dad served on subs so I'm constantly triggered by how bad this system is designed. They can't find the middle ground. It's always one extreme or the other.
I get it's an arcade-y game but this is just bad.
Ditch the homing nonsense and bring back batteries would be my first two suggestions.
This is supposed to be the 40s not the 60s.
Subs are gonna be coddled just like carriers because WG need to justify their existence.
Not to mention the whole hating idea of subs and CVs in randoms most people have.
Well the reason everyone hates Carriers is cus the AA is useless. if it wasn't so shit and actually did its JOB PROPERLY no one would be complaining. Like with hte RTS CVs their where ships you straight up avoided because your planes would go poof in a split second if you weren't careful. And Def AA was basically a I win button back then as well as caused the Drops to be less accurate.
I fail to see how they can make subs worse then they already are. the entire concept of them right now is just SHIT and no skill on every lvl. You may as well just play a DD at least they take skill to play.
@@jaywerner8415 Yep, currently CV are just damage free farming because AA does nothing, pre rework my Cleveland and Des Memes were no fly zones, even a couple of my BBs had enough AA to make CV think twice, after the rework(and the subsequent nerf to AA shortly after because of all the crying by CVs) my Cleveland and DM were routinely triple struck so I just unequipped the AA skills/equipment.
@@Dorkrust Flak is the only real defense anymore. the problem is most ships only have 1 (if any) to 3 or 4 at most. you need ALOT of flak so they cant just casually fly around it. I think WG knows this because some of the premiums they been pumping out have ALOT of Flak, the Kearsear and i think that French BB that come out last month have 10 flak clouds.
Even then if they know how to use the boost/brake they can still dodge it. But if they get hit it HURTS, iv deleted entire Japanese squadrons with my flak (def aa and priority sector activated of course, which btw def aa does 50% continues damage AND 300% flak damage)
@@Dorkrust My full-r**ard AA-spec Hindenburg with DFAA on back in the days was pure insanity... Planes would start melting down over 7km. Any CV player not paying enough attention to my existence would regret it in a few short seconds. It was a great support ship for both surface and air.
And the AAtlanta with infinite DFAA was evil. Part of what made it a great ship in competent hands. Also vaporizing DDs.
It bugs me to no end that submarines have wildly superior speeds to those used in real life.
well, ship speeds, and the speed of everything in general has to be taken with all the salt in the oceans in this game tbh :)
Good luck trying to counter subs in those slow US standard-type BBs.
*Conclusions so far:*
Russian BB's are gonna love using DamCon.
All BB's are gonna have to spec Last Stand.
CV's are basically exempt from taking damage as per usual.
Surface ships are going to be the piñata for submarines, hybrids *and* CV's now. I for one can't wait. To play coop exclusively.
By this point I just wish someone would make a decent WoWS rip off and remove all the fluff. Implausible? Maybe. Impossible? I think not.
Also, the DCP to remove ping feels like it was added directly for carriers to counter being hunted.
To much shit in the game. To many fantasy ships, and subs will ruin the meta.
They did, it was called Steal Ocean. It no longer exists, their was also GunFleet, which didn't even last a few months.
@@damedusa5107 I mean no one really Likes the current meta anyway so.....maybe shack things up? if nothing else shit will get EVEN MORE PASSIVE. its like playing WW1 trench warfare on the SEA.
@@jaywerner8415 the original battlestations midway multi player was excellent. Even the planes weren’t op
@@jaywerner8415 legends for me did shake it up, it was stripped back, no carriers more fun. But even that is now being heavily diluted.
“There’s two types of ships at sea.
Submarines and targets.”
One of the problems with the test is player inexperience, particularly at Tier X. I got two subs with the Des Moines. One with secondaries. One was calmly driving on the surface about 5 km away from me and got that one with main guns. They will be OP with a player that can handle the situational awareness and multi-tasking, but mostly harmless in the hands of the average idiot.
RTS cvs all over again?
In terms of marketing, this is called "commercial suicide". Well done WG!
Damn they are going all in to kill the game.
Flamu seems pretty calm. Guess he hasn't seen the new dev blog yet.
He’s used to this sort of shit that it gets to the point where he’s not surprised by it and is numb to it.
Clearly., the solution is to nerf BB's AA to encourage more aggressive plays.
I think as soon as subs are in my random and clan battle games i'm finally gonna quit wows...
1:21 As a BB player just seeing that strike already makes me want submarines to be scraped. Like for real, I'd put that at FDR torp planes except with PAN-ASIAN deep water torps of level of OP
"Balao class? Those are diesel boats! No offense to the USS Rustoleum here but I'd be better off in the Merrimack!"
-Tom Dodge, USN
Are you refusing to take command?
Interesting quote, what was so bad about a diesel boat?
@@jaywerner8415 It's from a movie called Down Periscope. It's a spoof submarine movie that's a cult classic and personal favorite of mine.
Playing in this game mode looks as fun as a battery acid enema while snorting fire ants. I am seriously considering calling it quits now (been here since open beta).
just do it. i am aftr "coming out" and it feel great after some days of withdrawal syndrome
I've been out since captain skills rework and it feels great! Not a single cent any longer for WG.
4:43 The 22 knots top speed is so game breaking and not to mention unrealistic! If submarines were slow underwater (e.g. the Baloa had a top speed of 8,75 knots when submerged), then Battleships and Cruisers would have a better chance to disengage a submerged submarine. Not to mention a fighting chance when the submarine is forced to emerge to close the distance to it's target again.
Spreadsheets say this is fun
Flamu, at 8:55, that's not depth charges, that's a Hedgehog-style contact-bomb launcher. Rather than operating like a depth charge, they were basically bombs designed to sink rapidly and detonate upon contact with a submarine's hull. They fired rapidly and in a spread ahead of the ship so that the destroyer using them could maintain contact with the target while it was firing (which was impossible with depth charges, since your sonar could not see in a zone under the ship). Of course, in this game, it's treated like depth charges anyway.
so basically, the Bomb Launcher in front of Halland launch kinda like "Sea Mine" but in Depth Charge shape?
The plays I have been seeing is you sit still or back up in your sub and spam torps. Really boring-looking to play and to play against. I would say they should remove the ping ability while surfaced, so no homing while on the surface. Or better yet, shelve the subs and work on what players want.
Because of that torpedo range that WeeGee gave to subs is the reason why you’ll just sit on the back and spam torps. Pretty much like Slava. Sit in the back and spam AP.
wait, the speed of sound underwater changes depending on the nation that built your submarine?
NGL I really wanted the halland
to have a special animation instead of doing something as dumb as having the charges drop directly beneath the ship
Halland drops charges in front, they're launched from the tubes up front.
@@San4311 you clearly missed the part where the charges are on a turret ring that is supposed to turn the launchers to the sides so the ship doesn't stroll over the charges and just as flamuu said, break the keel and sink the ship
I've been playing Silent Hunter 3 ever since its release, having every game from SH2 to SH5 and SHO. What they've done with subs is just bad. I wish they just wouldn't implement it at all tbh, than being this lazy...
yes, WoWs dosnt need Subs, its gonna be Bad for the game. in every aspect exepts WoWs bank account
the funny thing "killing cv's with a dd is so much easier" my thought about that is WOW killing a cv is easy for a dd? most dd's just get killed when they go for the cv ^^
the only way to get more survice ships on a server with 12 people each, would be 1 sub and 2 dd's for each team
you know how good the average DDs player is in staying alive right?
@@Routerproblem when i think about average players i would not play the game anymore haha
Eh just have the friendly CV spot the enemy CV at the start and have the BBs sink it almost instantly.
@Jay Werner i dont know about that, i spot the enemie cv so often specially in the start of the game, they dont shoot it then, no range or just braindead i dont know, but ok BB's dont shoot spotted dd's as well so i would say braindead.
and on top you dont sink a tier 10 bb from range with BB's shoot at it, a richthofen laugh about ap from 20+ km
@@illumin4t152 Oh no, Jay Werner is right, its happened to me before and pissed me right off. Idiot CV was divisioned up with a BB and they did exactly what he said. Absolutely outrageous that its even possible (at the start of the round). A CV can't turn or pick up speed.. well, at all... so its pretty cheap.
Of course Battleships can be bullied by subs, but cv is still immune because of its bullshit.
Germany had the best submarines during the war and the first stealth submarines. That we get again the worst ships feels straight up as racism from wg.
As much as I agree with the anti german bias saying Germans had the best subs period in WW2 is a tad disingenuous. Yes U-boats were better tech than what was started but by 1943 Russia and the US had built extremely potent subs. Also first stealth sub? Are ALL subs made for stealth? XD
Jop, sehe ich ganz genau so!
Cant argue with that. Like did Russia not assert its dominance enough in WW2 by taking Berlin after basically routing the entire German army.
@@skylarsimes8 germans had some rubbercoating and stuff in the end which countered basically all of the normal countermeasures against subs iirc.
But yeah, bias is true for sure
@@skylarsimes8 dubm.de/en/stealth-u-boats/ but not with this!
Well, this is fantastic. WIn-Win so to speak.
Not only will the surface be much emptier with subs around, WG also ensures that their favourite kind of player (CV player) will have even less opposition since subs have no AA and it is easier to focus down the four ships that remain.
This is truly outstanding game design we are just to ignorant to appreciate it.
its not laziness from wg to simply have the ships disappear when they sink. not everybody that plays the game has a super computer that can handle all the processing and in-game assets.
an engine from 2010 that eats more then google chrome, making sunken ships disappear helps. riiiiight~
well they could make it optional, like with animating small objects
@@C-R-l-M-S-O-N true. I'm in no way defending wg with all the stupid shit they do, but it doesn't make sense to add more assets to the game that only 1-4 players will be able to see right now. 🤷
Fun fact, the hull you're playing with is the balao hull with the post-war GUPPY II upgrades applied.
Ah okay, thats the point the german XXI Boat is not "the best" . . .
since it's post war modification i wonder if it'll also get Mk.16 nod 0 torpedo with it's 1,260 pounds (570 kg) of Torpex (TPX) explosive. To this day it's still the most powerful conventional torpedo ever equipped to a submarine.
"Dropping a sub to the channel" hilarious
This sub the Balao class submarine is one of the few WW2 Submarines still in active service after it was sold to Taiwan in 1973, previously in USA it was USS Tusk SS-426 and once Taiwan recieved it, it was renamed to ROCS Hai Bao SS-792
Once this comes to the game, I will probably stop playing.
I asked the question about increasing the number of ships per team on an NA stream discussing this and one of the official developers who was there to answer questions said there was no plan to increase ship numbers. Also, I love seeing the US T10 sub do nearly triple the speed it was capable of when submerged historically.
This game is getting worse with every update. Its beyond stupid at the moment
I wouldn't bump up player count, I'd say rather lower the sub count to max of 1 per team. They're hunters and good scouters, treat them as such. Having 3 on a team is honestly overkill
poor germans, arent allowed to have a op ship for a single second
Keep losing world wars and they never will lol
I already basically quit the game because of CVs in clan battles. Clan battles had been the only thing keeping me coming back for a while, but when they added CVs I found that I just wasn't having fun anymore. Now, watching this is making me want to sell my account while it still has value.
Am I the only one who thinks that the subs are going to be the end of this game?
Honestly, gonna need a miracle to fix them, before this latest downgrade of subs they had an almost perfect set up, then they removed the good stuff and amplified the shit stuff
This looks so funny. Funny alien submarine running around so fast and doing weird physics shit.
How did you keep the ships spotted while u was submerged?The moment I submerge I lose every visual with the vessels even if I have pinged them.
With so few ships that you can actually see in a game, you could almost feel relaxed enough to just enjoy what the art department has worked so hard on.
That is until 20 torpedoes start coming your way from every direction and about a third of them hone in amidships.
Fun and engaging WEEGEE! The new tier9 montanna with 12 guns and Rocket Planes will no doubt help round out the player experiance. LMFAO
Funny enough i got a comment on one of my comments about that ship that the plans do in fact exist......it has 10 flak btw. AA POWER CREEP LOL! POWER CREEP IN GENERAL!
Did you ever hear about the tragedy of the Type XXI? It is not a story WG would like to tell you...
The Type XXI was designed to be the first true submarine. It could stay underwater for days. It was much faster underwater than its contemporaries. It could recharge its batteries via a snorkel. It had mechanically assisted reloading of its torpedoes so it could fire three sets of six torpedoes in twenty minutes. Had a very good passive sonar system and had acoustic homing torpedoes. It was the ultimate submarine that could finally turn the tide in the Battle of the Atlantic and save Germany from defeat.
It was a truly revolutionary design. But it was so advanced, so groundbreaking, that by the time it could finally be produced, it was too late. Germany was beyond doomed; the Type XXIs that were built often had major construction flaws, and even the ones that didn't arrived too late to sink a single ship before Germany surrendered. Naturally, after the war, every major naval power got their hands on one and copied all of its breakthroughs, including the Soviet Union, which had had a respectable fleet of submarines throughout the war but was too incompetent to ever utilize them effectively. And so the Soviet Union established its fearsome lineage of submarines to contest the world's oceans...thanks to the breakthroughs and genius of its greatest nemesis. Naturally, Wargaming would never allow the German tech tree to reflect such genius or effectiveness in their game.
Ironic. The Type XXI could save itself, but not the nation that created it. And its legacy was so great that it would never be featured by Wargaming...at least, not without paying a hefty price in dabloons.
In different countries, sound travels at different speed, wargaming logic
Nice vid Flamu. Looks like it's back to the drawing board, WG.
Dropping a *sub* to the channel.... I see what you did there.
I love how from a historical accuracy perspective the Balao class submarine does NOT look like that. Like what happened to the original design of the submarine? That sub looks like the damn nautilus like seriously.
Another thing that they could add back is the battery life which you mentioned Flamu. Also they should add a mechanic with how much sound you produce underwater and the different detection levels at different speeds. So if you were at 1/4th speed your detection would be significantly reduced and it would be harder for DDs to ping you. And if you were moving at higher speeds it would be easier to detect the sub. Just an idea, Subs are just so far away and with so many issues and that they keep changing them.
Does it make sense to practise this U-boat thingy in some kind of mission szenario?!
Great, another thing in the game that destroys BB's, what a surprise
What kind of a soviet mechanic is that damage party "removes" sonar pings from the ship? WTF they are doing to this once good game?
Taking a Siberian polar bear sized DUMP all over it.
Its amazing people still find WG as a good game company and they say Flamu is crazy.
And of course they will never implement a hard limit of 1 carrier and 1 sub per team max . .
6 subs is a bit much, 1 each or 2 each should be fine.
@@jaywerner8415 They are limiting it to 2 subs per game
Love how the Balao can go over 22 knots underwater when it could no more than 20 irl(with the GUPPY upgrades)
So are Wargaming just wanting to kill this game off?
They could solve it by placing torpedo limit in the Subs since subs are way smaller and can't carry that much torpedo's like DD's ,CL ,CA ,CH ,BB's or CV's the ammunition limit was good at enigma rising tide game and you had to be very precise with your torpedo's or you lost and had to retreat to refill the ammmunition.
the only ships with torpedo reloads, one reload at that, were Japanese cruisers and destroyers. Some German destroyers also had reloads. Reloading took about 30 minutes and the reload torpedoes were a fire and explosion hazard. Wonder what the game would be like if only the Japanese (CL, DD) and Germans (large DD) had reloads and it was one reload only. All other ships with torpedoes had no reloads. NOTE: some ships like BB had torpedo tubes. Some of those may have had reloads if they had underwater launch tubes but it is not likely if they had deck launchers. The Deutschland class (Admiral Graf Spee) may also have reloads being a raider.
sub the best shit ever thx wg what next ? sure you can surprise us again
I won’t be surprised if there’s going to be a tech tree of Hybrid ships like Tone and Ise.
Taiho with fast cooldown DCP maybe?
I think number of players and scope of matches need to be expanded. Like the idea of subs isn't bad in itself, so are carriers, but this still remains essentially a 12 v 12 deathmatch. 12 players in surface ships on a small map feels like a bar fight, 12 players in mixed ship types on large maps feel super empty because those with no range have to hide from HE cruisers, and battleships with range need to hide from carriers. Big maps are great and i love them because they have a much more strategic aspect to them, but there needs to be strategic things to think about other than "where is the carrier/cruiser nope zone".
I mean come on guys we have been spending years capping empty points in the ocean, and sure we all remember forts but how hard can it be to make matches more interesting?
I can already tell this is going to be fun and engaging.. For my uninstall button
Uninstalled it already last night. 60-70 gb of nightmare is gone XD
@@jojodivas9211 Yesterday I made the decision to stop playing wows.Today I am seeing this video.XD
Tbh, I really like the gameplay of this. I am a very big fan of slow paced gameplay
Of course CVs would rekt subs they rekt everything.
WG: "CVs are immune to fire. No carrier was ever destroyed by fire"
WG: "CVs are immune to subs. No carrier was ever destroyed by subs"
I mean you can just dive underwater so......
@@jaywerner8415 wargaming will make underwater planes coz the CV players will complain that they can't hit subs.
@@leecupp2573 XDDDD
I'm starting to save money for the first carrier with a squadron of anti submarine planes beside the regular ones. They will have advanced air dropped anti submarine torpedoes and can drop sonar buoys with a detection radius of about 10 km.
It will be off course a premium ship.
;)
If a sub is this broken against BBs, I think DDs should be able to intercept those torps with guns or depth charges. There must be some ways to protect BBs against those monsters.
I played a bit in Minotaur against T10 subs, in my opinion they are a lot more balanced than before (last test). And if you get pinged you can hydro and attack with depth charges (any cruiser or destroyer can outrun and outmanoeuvre a sub).
Bottom line is that they are are annoying and not needed in the game, but that they won’t be as bad as for example Carriers.
They should put a ammo count on sub torps. To mitigate the torp spam. Let them shoot as fast as they want, but there is a consequence.
If this is supposed to entice me to log back in to play its really doing the exact opposite.
the speeds of these submarines is jump the shark. The fundamental issue is that you can change dumb fire torpedoes into homing. It should require a lock prior to launch to home
Keep ruining your own game WG, we play for fun, this certainly isn't fun for both parties, just like CV play
This could encourage team play with DDs screening for bbs, which could be fun.
More likely bbs will have more incentive to hide in the back dueling from 20km, with more stagnant gameplay.
I doubt any DD would want to have even more shoveled onto their plate though. Depending on the nation they already have one or two roles to fulfill.
I mainly play DD's and I wouldn't mind screening for bb's however I'd get all the other players who aren't playing bb's yelling at me to spot & cap, besides that, couldn't really use my torps or guns if the deadeye meta continues. Overall it does encourage co-operation with your teammates, but it does so at the detriment of the overal flow of the game.
@@Goofygooberston deadeye was removed btw.. didnt change anything.. a big problem in my opinion is also dds suiciding in the first 2 mins so the bbs and also cruisers have to stay in the back. if you want to use your radar as cruiser youll prob get shot by the enemys bbs and cruisers and end up dead before you are even in range of dds..
@@Patriick96 I know some dd captains are pretty dumb, but saying it's suiciding all the time is a bit naive. What is a DD supposed to do when aircraft are barreling towards him at the speed of light? If you're lucky you can run and stay undetected sure, but it happens way too many times that due to how fast the aircraft are, you get spotted and consequently get focussed down by the enemy cv. It happens a lot, way too often.
@@Patriick96 Funny, usually I see DDs lighting up enemy DDs while the BBs ignore them and try to farm damage on enemy BBs, spamming "I need intelligence data" non-stop. Then get upset that the team mate they did nothing to support died... We can't spot targets for you, till you help us clear out the other sides screen - THEN you can farm all you want. Honestly, CV players are more use than BB capts. most of the time.
Not much damage at tier 6. Tier 10 nukes a cruiser with an extra torp to spare
If they made ships still render after sinking the game would just crash. Arent their servers really bad
Maybe but would be cool to see them settle on the bottom before disappearing.
Heh, the last part " If you want to drop a sub to the channel", pun intended much? :P
So we got subs, hybrids, super battleships, and etc. So what else wargaming is gonna give us some nuclear carriers and some missiles? This game has gotten so far that it can’t be balanced anymore
Sounds like a great time ahead for Battleships and Cruisers...
About the server emptiness.WG will probably try to enocourage people to play more Cruisers by giving them missions that will give you dope flags like one of each Detonation or Ramming flags.
I remember in the old subs the fun was micro managing your battery and recharging it but being careful to not get caught while you’re recharging. And the sub counter play with depth charges was also better I remember having to dive as far as you could go then having to change depths and speed and direction until you either ran out of battery of the DD stops. One time I even torped a DD while avoiding the charges and it was an intense moment of constantly changing speed, depth and direction until I was able to line up my rear torps. Sad to see that doesn’t happen anymore as DDs one shot you. Also I want to see hedgehog mortars in the game and the ability to cause a gas leak on a CV while in a sub called Albacore and watch the CV explode! But first they need to add Albacore and Taihō lol. Also AzurLane dose subs and anti sub warfare better than world of warships and that’s after considering that the AL subs are just lolis on scuba bikes lol.