Thanks again for coming down to CBR for the event. And being legends for taking on two hard lists in the first round. Yeah had a scramble with a couple of tables terrain so apologies you ended on up on those that weren’t templates for woods like the other tables. Moving players table around rather in edition to Swiss pairing for the win next time. As a competitive event there is no issue with refusing to engage a gun line build. As long as players can cordially resolve agreeing to a draw or playing out a dull game of chicken. Plenty of other events will have Packs to deal with these situations being less an issue. In this case it was a useful learning experience of limitations of the game for all.
Nice to meet you guys on the weekend. Gunline dilema ? If you play against a gunline 3 times . 1st time you march into their guns , die horribly and decide it's not a good idea , 2nd time you deploy better and attack a flank using terrain for cover , you have a close game , maybe you win. 3rd time the gunline player complains that there is too much line of sight blocking terrain and they dont have a hill in their deployment zone and they go home crying 😂 You cant just have tables with an open killing field in the middle so gunlines can sit and shoot all game. We used to have this many years ago in 5th and 6tth edtion etc , when someone would bring Dwarf , Empire or Elf Gunlines. Not fun to play against , and TO's would then start putting large LOS blockers on the table in the middle. Shooting is not interactive and can lead to bad game experiences , it's a fine balance.
First off taking down a chaos lord on a dragon is HUGE! I have yet to beat another dragon in combat. That TK army all painted up is 🔥. Let us know how the archers w poison works out, I think it’s better on paper but not sure how well it helps keeping backline safe and if you push you don’t get volley 🤷🏻♂️. With the TG I’ve been using w the banner to give VG and reserve move. If you need to push it can move 12 inch first turn and protect either your LP or war machines at the back plus you don’t waste a spell choice on reserve move.
Re castling up against a Gunline; thats why you need to introduce scenario and objectives rather than just hit each other until the game ends. It changes the list building aspect completely and you quickly find that Gunline armies simply cant compete because they are too static.
Great run down of the weekend fellas. But you missed the most important part of a tourney review! How were the toilets? Ill cover the for you, they were great! Paper and air dry options (for your hands), ample room, no odour, clean and tidy, but cheapo TP, 8/10. With regards to your ethical dilemma Andrew, I have changed my list to reduce magic and include 2 doom divers and a rock lobber lol. So, I can feel like I'm playing a game when I decide to sit in my deployment zone rather than running at a gun line again. I also don't think Dave or your opponent would be offended if you don't want to run at them. It's the risk they take when they write their list. Looking forward to the Castle run down.
There’s only two answers over the years to the gun line problem, and Non interactivity. It either has to become very common for the opponent of the gun line to just sit still and lose 11-9 or it needs to be composition/scenario fixed. It’s why these games always work better when shooting is weak otherwise it just becomes a shooting game. It’s the main reason. I’m super four scoring sportsmanship after every game and scoring your opponents army composition after every game I love when people go five and oh, and don’t win the tournament.
I definitely agree with scenario changes so you need to bring certain things. I wish the fundamentals of the DMH book werent as shooty, so it awarded, hell my list is a hybrid mobile gunline haha. Some good points there GD!
Not convinced that your dilemma of whether or not to march slowly towards a gunline is really an ethical one. Probably more comes down to more mundane things like potential boredom, what your position in the tournament is and how bothered you are about trying to win it and whether accepting a draw or minor loss is a big issue on that front etc. Think you'd definitely be within your rights not to engage and the opponent should understand that. Equally I don't see that there's anything unethical about someone running a gunline either though they too should have considerations to take into account such as will it be boring, is it actually any good, will the opponents who could provide it with easy victories refuse to engage and so on. Given that the game at least in its competitive form seems to have been designed to encourage unbalanced and/or unthematic lists of all sorts I don't see that one type is 'worse' on that front than others though. Did wonder if in this instance it was more of a Dwarfs vs Dwarfs problem than strictly a 'gunline' one. Feels like in any such encounter one side or the other will have the edge in shooting and so a reason to sit back and the other will be poorly equipped to get across the table. Don't think there's anything new about this. Did the shootier Dwarf army do well against other opponents?
Yeah he came first. Good tournament list and player. Haha but it was definitely more of a Dwarf issue due to movement. Ive just not engaged a gunline and went for other objective before and it seems people have an issue not running in and engaging. I dont know why from my prospective, just seeing what others thought.
Wouldnt you struggle to actually FIRE 40 shots from 40 archers? Unless you spread them out in one massive line, and even then you would probably run into los issues wouldnt you?
Yeah, not at all. Maybe some turns of volley fire. 10-15 wide, might get 20-30 shots off with Poison. Would plan to try combo that with Plague of rust to just knock off those units that have a wound or 2 left
Thanks again for coming down to CBR for the event. And being legends for taking on two hard lists in the first round.
Yeah had a scramble with a couple of tables terrain so apologies you ended on up on those that weren’t templates for woods like the other tables. Moving players table around rather in edition to Swiss pairing for the win next time.
As a competitive event there is no issue with refusing to engage a gun line build. As long as players can cordially resolve agreeing to a draw or playing out a dull game of chicken. Plenty of other events will have Packs to deal with these situations being less an issue. In this case it was a useful learning experience of limitations of the game for all.
re: the Dwarf Arcane Journal; I think that the seller and buyer were also both in Florida, a little strange combined with a single bid.
Another great episode lads, getting close to putting together a list and trying out a game. The tourney sounds like it was a blast
Nice to meet you guys on the weekend.
Gunline dilema ?
If you play against a gunline 3 times .
1st time you march into their guns , die horribly and decide it's not a good idea ,
2nd time you deploy better and attack a flank using terrain for cover , you have a close game , maybe you win.
3rd time the gunline player complains that there is too much line of sight blocking terrain and they dont have a hill in their deployment zone and they go home crying 😂
You cant just have tables with an open killing field in the middle so gunlines can sit and shoot all game. We used to have this many years ago in 5th and 6tth edtion etc , when someone would bring Dwarf , Empire or Elf Gunlines. Not fun to play against , and TO's would then start putting large LOS blockers on the table in the middle.
Shooting is not interactive and can lead to bad game experiences , it's a fine balance.
Nice to meet you too. Checked out the channel. Good stuff!! Hopefully we get a game in next tournament we both attend.
First off taking down a chaos lord on a dragon is HUGE! I have yet to beat another dragon in combat. That TK army all painted up is 🔥. Let us know how the archers w poison works out, I think it’s better on paper but not sure how well it helps keeping backline safe and if you push you don’t get volley 🤷🏻♂️. With the TG I’ve been using w the banner to give VG and reserve move. If you need to push it can move 12 inch first turn and protect either your LP or war machines at the back plus you don’t waste a spell choice on reserve move.
Yeah I like that idea with the banner.
This Gym fella you keep speaking of with love, sounds hot.
Re castling up against a Gunline; thats why you need to introduce scenario and objectives rather than just hit each other until the game ends. It changes the list building aspect completely and you quickly find that Gunline armies simply cant compete because they are too static.
Yeah the Castle Assult tournament in August we are going to has 5 Scenario points up for grabs. Its really quite a big deal building towards it.
Great run down of the weekend fellas. But you missed the most important part of a tourney review! How were the toilets?
Ill cover the for you, they were great! Paper and air dry options (for your hands), ample room, no odour, clean and tidy, but cheapo TP, 8/10.
With regards to your ethical dilemma Andrew, I have changed my list to reduce magic and include 2 doom divers and a rock lobber lol. So, I can feel like I'm playing a game when I decide to sit in my deployment zone rather than running at a gun line again.
I also don't think Dave or your opponent would be offended if you don't want to run at them. It's the risk they take when they write their list.
Looking forward to the Castle run down.
This was great to paint to, thanks bois!
Theres a new Thane wih Winged Helm and handgun
I think if you play necro on foot near guards even if he put pillar of fire on him you still got look out sir !:)
There’s only two answers over the years to the gun line problem, and Non interactivity. It either has to become very common for the opponent of the gun line to just sit still and lose 11-9 or it needs to be composition/scenario fixed. It’s why these games always work better when shooting is weak otherwise it just becomes a shooting game. It’s the main reason. I’m super four scoring sportsmanship after every game and scoring your opponents army composition after every game I love when people go five and oh, and don’t win the tournament.
I definitely agree with scenario changes so you need to bring certain things. I wish the fundamentals of the DMH book werent as shooty, so it awarded, hell my list is a hybrid mobile gunline haha. Some good points there GD!
* It awarded blocks of infantry
@gommo if you charge a unit that chooses to flee you still move the full charge amount its not a failed charge
argh!!! Damn. More reason to keep reading the rules!! Thanks
Lol, I even had that highlighted in my digital version hahah.
@@oldworldfanatics so many rules to keep in the head haha happens to me all the time when going over games after the fact
😊
Not convinced that your dilemma of whether or not to march slowly towards a gunline is really an ethical one. Probably more comes down to more mundane things like potential boredom, what your position in the tournament is and how bothered you are about trying to win it and whether accepting a draw or minor loss is a big issue on that front etc. Think you'd definitely be within your rights not to engage and the opponent should understand that. Equally I don't see that there's anything unethical about someone running a gunline either though they too should have considerations to take into account such as will it be boring, is it actually any good, will the opponents who could provide it with easy victories refuse to engage and so on. Given that the game at least in its competitive form seems to have been designed to encourage unbalanced and/or unthematic lists of all sorts I don't see that one type is 'worse' on that front than others though.
Did wonder if in this instance it was more of a Dwarfs vs Dwarfs problem than strictly a 'gunline' one. Feels like in any such encounter one side or the other will have the edge in shooting and so a reason to sit back and the other will be poorly equipped to get across the table. Don't think there's anything new about this. Did the shootier Dwarf army do well against other opponents?
Yeah he came first. Good tournament list and player. Haha but it was definitely more of a Dwarf issue due to movement. Ive just not engaged a gunline and went for other objective before and it seems people have an issue not running in and engaging. I dont know why from my prospective, just seeing what others thought.
Wouldnt you struggle to actually FIRE 40 shots from 40 archers? Unless you spread them out in one massive line, and even then you would probably run into los issues wouldnt you?
Yeah, not at all. Maybe some turns of volley fire. 10-15 wide, might get 20-30 shots off with Poison. Would plan to try combo that with Plague of rust to just knock off those units that have a wound or 2 left