I think Melissa is very right. Christine doesn't feel like she really is rushing because she grieved the marriage and was rediscovering who she was as a single woman for many years BEFORE she left. By the time she really left, she had already grieved the ending and had found her independence and self-confidence as an individual.
If I recall correctly, Christine leaving was not that easy. Kody pushed her out the door when he announced that he had no desire to be intimate with her. She was starved for love and affection. So, of course, divorce is a better option for her. Now she is free to be with someone who loves her, and only her.
I think a lot of the uncomfortable/sometimes performative PDA is literally just Christine being with a man who actually is attracted to her, wants to be hugged and kissed and touched by her, for the first time. She feels that it’s welcome and feels free to do it as much as a 14 year old with their first steady boyfriend, she’s just never had this experience of introducing her boyfriend to people or being out and being able to hold his hand or lay her head on his shoulder *and* she knows he likes it because he’s made that clear to her. I wouldn’t say it’s puppy love but there’s an element of that to how she displays her affection, because she’s never been able to display it before.
Do you remember when Kody was getting ready to go on a date with Robyn where he is standing in front of the mirror in Christine’s bathroom styling his hair etc? Christine noticed he was a giddy schoolboy and that was when she realized that he had fallen head over heels for Robyn. I think that was one of the moments that broke Christine. Which is so sad because that happened in Lehi. Christine was never happy :(
@jewelgazer yes, it was a slow process for Cristine. She said somewhere that she had her house in her name because of advice from Janelle on how to get her money in order incase she was going to leave. And I believe that conversation took place in Las Vegas.
You two are just so lovely! I am a therapist in Arizona (and California) and find your channel very helpful with my clients. I so appreciate that you reflect on dynamics without making fun of people's beliefs. You navigate complexities with compassion and depth. Very impressive. I wish you both all the happiness in the world.
I think that when Kody did what he did where Ysabel was concerned that’s what broke Christine. She had been in love with Kody and honestly tried the hardest of all five of them to make the family work. Once he treated Ysabel the way he did that was just it. As a mom I can understand that.
@ you are so right. As a mom I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. Shows what a warrior Christine is handling that situation without any assistance from her child’s other “parent”
Melissa, you explained exactly what I was thinking about Christine leaving the family. She had suffered for many years as a wife in name only. Certainly when Truely was born, Kody basically abandoned Christine and her kids for his new wife and her kids. I believe Christine tried for years to reconnect with Kody. When he said to her face that he did not want an intimate relationship with her, that was the final straw that caused her to make the decision to leave.
Does that make Christine a “WINO”? I mean, it’s not funny considering the circumstances, but in the words of Christine “if you can’t find humor [was it humor that she said, something like that] in it? What a waste.”
It blew my mind that Meri still thinks Kody won’t screw her over - actually Christine struggled with her decision internally for a few years leading up to it. It’s just when she brought it up she was already over it. Even when they moved to Vegas she was half out of her relationship with him. Melissa is 1000% right.
Meri has lost her mind. And her reaction to Janelle WARNING her was to defend Kody and be offended that Janelle would suggest such a thing. Meri is one of those people who will keep trusting people who aren’t trustworthy and then wonder why they got hurt.
The time that Cody encouraged Christine and said he supported her idea to move back to Utah from coyote pass, was extremely deceptive to Christine . He set her up to pitch it to the wives on the property knowing they would not agree. She ran and broke down. Meri tried to help her. She told Meri “she did not want a relationship like Mari had with Cody”. They all knew Cody rejected Meri. In my opinion this was the beginning of the end. He didn’t support the daughter through surgery, heartbreaking! Then he actually blamed his daughter and wanted her to wait longer in pain, this blew my mind. The absolute last straw was him telling Christine he was not attracted to her, didn’t have feelings for her, and would never have intimacy with her again. He wanted her property added to the family, his, fund. Yeah right dude. If she would have did that instead of keeping to herself, she would have had no means to get out of this relationship and move. “Hell have no fury like a woman scorned”. I have contempt for him for words he spoke and the damage he caused his children. Lastly I’m not surprised the daughters are finding relationships with other women as their partners. The over all children outside of Robin’s seem to have strained or not at all relationship with Cody. The father figure is tremendously important just as the mother.
The defining moment is when Kody refused to be there with Ysabell for her back surgery. Kody said He “couldn’t be away from his family that long” ysabell then said “ i thought i was part of his family”. It was during that trip that Christine realized she could do this alone, that she could be fine without his help and support. That was a life altering moment when she realized leaving was a real option for her.
I think the catalyst was irrefutably Robyn. The wives have stated how different Kody was as a husband and father before Robyn. They all had even days with Kody before Robyn came in & took far more time. I do think Robyn has manipulated constantly. She was first introduce to Kody through Meri. As strange as it is, for a bit that gave Meri more attention from Kody since it was their secret before Janelle and Christine were told, and Kody was happy about Robyn so acted he appreciative to Meri. Meri did the same when she divorced Kody so Robyn could be the legal wife so the kids could be adopted. Meri got attention of her "good deed" then it bit her in the behind. I think most agree Robyn sought out the family for financial security, as she did not like being a struggling single mom who had to work. The wives said Robyn would have a private talk with them, then would "tell on them" to Kody, getting Kody mad at them, causing strife. Robyn would call on the other wives' days with Kody saying Ari was crying to see Kody, taking him away from his other kids & their family time. It seems Robyn only wanted a polygamist family for what it provided her, but she saw everyone else as just accessories to her life, not as equal wives with their own needs, wants and children.
We all know that Christine wasn’t happy about the courtship, because of the fact that he kept it secret she felt betrayed. They broke the no kissing before marriage rule when they got engaged, and then they did it AGAIN when Christine was literally about to give birth to Truely. Then pile on the wedding dress situation and the 11 day honeymoon, I think it was all too much for the OG family. And as you mentioned she took more and more time that wasn’t hers, and he actually acted like she was his partner when he didn’t with any of the rest.
I will add that Robyn came in with a large amount of debt. I can’t remember the two wives were working to pay off and carry the family through. Robyn did not work to support anyone’s household or little to other children needs it appeared. Each of the other wives sacrificed in many ways and received very little credit, respect, and love from Cody. Yes, Robyn was a huge factor.
And stopped giving him money blindly. Started with Meri after the divorce/catfish then Christine bought a home with her profit instead of leave on the family account.
Meri demanded she have as large of a house as the others in Vegas. She demanded that she get the features she wanted. Christine also. Cracks were surfacing, long before, the catfish. Kody expected the women to accept his decisions and KEEP SWEET. It didn’t happen. POOF…….. Goodbye Kody’s dream.😉😉😉😉😉
@@joerudnik9290 The houses that were constructed in Vegas only had a couple choices. They were to be similar sizes, so a much smaller house for Meri wasn’t an option.
I think the game changer was agreeing to participate in this reality show. Not only did they get money but extensive interaction with people who were involved in the production of the show, which gave them different perspectives. Being a celebrity also means hearing in various ways from fans of the show who are more than willing to add their opinions. After reading Carolyn Jessop’s book I don’t think it’s rare for polygamous men to have a favorite wife. It’s just that Cody’s wives had the ability to leave and leave on their own terms instead of escaping in the middle of the night with nothing.
Kody is territorial. He asks, "How long have you been dating?" His REAL question was "Are you the man Christine left me for? Were you dating BEFORE Christine left?" Kody wanted a silent, dominance stare down with David and instead he found Robyn talking to David and David looking at her. Robyn undermined Kody's attempted power move. Meanwhile, David was polite and looked at the person talking to him.
In my opinion, the thing that blew up this marriage was Cody bringing Robyn into it. From the beginning, Janelle said that they couldn't afford another wife in the three extra mouths that she was already bringing, Christine said that she already struggled with some issues of feeling insecure in her marriage and not being supported, and Cody just disregarded all of that because he wanted a younger woman to worship him. Cody couldn't handle the responsibilities that he had, let alone bringing these other relationships into it. And Cody and the OG3 had the shared experiences of starting the family, struggling together and working together to build the family. They were all invested in the marriage and the family in a way that Robin never was. Robin got to be the fun mistress without any of the responsibility of supporting the family in a meaningful way. She kept herself separate, kept her children separate, kept Cody separate.
I think people also forget she left Sept. 2021 and didnt date David until about 16 to 18 months later. It just seems like a big jump to us because of how filming goes.
I agree with Melissa that Christine’s marriage was over for years and Christine had been mourning that loss for a while. By the time she left, she was done and didn’t look back. She waited a year for Truely’s sake before she dated anyone. Then she said she went out with about 8 guys before David. She and David communicated for about a month before they met in person. They already had a good feeling about each other before they met. It may have seemed fast, but she found someone who really loved her.
Kody does not want a relationship with his children as it would cost him. But he wants the attention and acknowledgement from them that he is their dad.
IMO the end of the family was when the children and wives saw that Kody was capable, able and willing to do more if he wanted to. I think over the years they thought wasn’t capable of giving more but they thought his heart was still with the family. Once they saw he was capable but not for them then it started to unravel. Then when the kids tried addressing their concerns with their father but he shut them down… nope that was the final blow. That subsequently was the end for the wives (except Meri).
There were certainly many events that led to the end, but one moment that seemed too force the pivotal domino to fall was when Kody told Christine that he no longer wanted to have a sexual relationship. She couldn't come back from that. It was her moment of clarity.
Narcissists loose it when kids grow up and they aren’t the centre of their universe anymore. I think that’s what caused everything to crumble. The kids grew up.
Especially difficult just have been that Janelle was Meris sister in law at one point and according to Janelle herself (in an interview) she was struck by lightning the moment she saw Kody when Meri and him were courting. And after her divorce she hung around them and when Kody decided to replace his fertility challenged wife, him and Janelle had romantic (his words) lunch dates where Janelle miraculously received testimony to join the family and then she wanted to get married on Meris birthday or all days. To this day Kody and Janelle are baffled why Meri didn’t roll out the welcome wagon? 🙄
I think the thing that changed the family was when Robin came in the regular family times stopped happening on a consistent basis (according to Christine they had weekly family time until Robin came in)
I’m enjoying Maddie’s new podcast, it’s giving me a new understanding of the dynamics in the Brown family 😮( the authentic society) it is worth listening to and watching on TH-cam, especially for facial expressions, I do like the video version you get extra info from body language and facial expressions. Janelle has said many times that Meri is loyal to a fault with how sheltered Meri obviously seems to have been raised, I suspect that she thinks people are as honest and loyal as she is?🤷🏼♀️
Kody wooed and married Meri's brother's ex-wife, Janelle. It was Meri's relationship with Kody that exposed Janelle to Kody at family functions. I think that Janelle saw Meri's shiny new husband and coveted that, leading to her being dissatisfied with her marriage. And her first husband may not have been a great match. Kody, no doubt, was charming and attentive to her. So, imagine you are Meri and your sister-in-law divorces your brother to marry your husband. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow.
The thing that made things fall apart is Kody has Narcissistic personality disorder...that will degrade a family over time and is extremely insidious (after all, he's charming and dynamic and pulls people in initially). My mom was married to a narcissist for 20 years and it took that long for her to recognize that she deserved to be treated better. There's a lot of victim blaming when you live with a narcissist so Kody has conditioned the women into thinking *he's* the victim when really he's often the person who's most difficult to live with (explosive temper, can't hear other logical thoughts/perspectives ect). The women probably thought they were crazy and were in survival/fix-it mode for a lot of the marriage....
While I was watching the show, I heard Christine say something in the “private booth” about her faith. She left the faith years before leaving the marriage. There were lots of challenges because of her family being “legacy” members -
I think that honestly the show had the biggest impact. If they didn't do the show they probably wouldn't have had to move to Las Vegas, they probably would have stayed active in the AUB, and because of the that the women wouldn't have really felt like they could leave Kody. The wives also probably wouldn't have had the income and financial means to leave. And while some women will leave with nothing and build from the ground up I don't feel like any of these ladies would have.
I chuckled at the face tattoo part because i remember telling my poor, conservative mother “well, at least it’s not my face” when i tattooed my hands. It’s less of an issue now but as a former Catholic it was a huge line to cross over when i did it a decade ago!
To back a point Melissa was making, coincidentally, I'm listening to an interview Christine gave about eight months ago. Christine said SIX MONTHS after moving to Flagstaff, she started contemplating how to leave because she knew it was over. She said she had been waiting for ten years for Kody to join her kids on outings, have fun, etc. Be a family again. She knew it was over all those years ago. So she had years to slowly process and come to terms with this. These poor, fellow humans. Victims of a cult. 😢 All of them. Even Kody. 😢 (But he's still a jerk! 😂)
I think being on tv had the biggest impact on the family falling apart for several reasons. The show estranged them from their church and the community they lived in - the church didn’t approve of them doing the show and they moved out of the community shortly after the show started. Without their beliefs being constantly reinforced, they seem to have faded for most of them. Moving to Vegas and getting more exposure to the outside world showed them different opportunities than they would have had if they were not public. They saw the world outside their community wasn’t as scary as they had been taught. The show also gave them more financial stability than they had before. They went from multiple bankruptcies and struggling a lot financially to steady streams of income, both from the show itself and from the MLMs the OG wives joined and are successful at thanks to their fame. Also, the tv show showed them things they wouldn’t normally see about the other wives’ relationships, and let them hear things from Kody he wouldn’t say to them directly. It also made them have examine and react to their own situations via the couch confessionals in a way most people don’t have to. I think if they weren’t on tv and Robyn still joined the family, they would have been able to stay in their closed off community with their beliefs intact, kept struggling along financially, and it would have been much easier for the OG wives to ignore/push down their feelings about the favoritism Kody shows toward Robyn.
I think adding an additional wife and Kody became so fascinated with her was the problem. He got a wife that was ten years younger and dropped everyone. It is kind of the oldest story in the book.
Question of the week: I feel it all fell apart when Robin entered their lives and when Kody started to neglect the OG3 and their kids. I don’t believe it was one incident, I believe it was the combination of events that made the family fall apart.
I haven't seen any comments mentioning being on the show as a catalyst in the family's demise. I think it added a huge amount of pressure--from the faking of being happy and united in the beginning to producers purposely stirring the pot later on, to every viewer having decided opinions about what's going on. Because of the show, disagreements got discussed multiple times, and private thoughts were recorded during times of anger and then replayed for reactions months later, which made every issue and grievance harder to move beyond. Finally, it opened income options for the OG wives that gave them more options when they left, and it made the lives of both wives and kids less sheltered so that leaving seemed like more of a viable option. I don't know that it could be called "the" reason, but I think the show definitely contributed.
Rumor is Robyn only joined the family because she heard the cameras were coming. The combination of the show plus Robyn I feel started them on the path to destruction. Without those two things, they would've remained in the one house and things would be extremely different.
It's gotta be hard to set aside ego and truly look out for someone not because you like someone, but because you respect them. It seems to me that this episode shows how the og3 are trying to move forward and continue to grow even though "the experience" of polygamy is over.
Regarding Christine: What made her leave was Kody saying he’d no longer have sex with her. Let’s be real. Christine says how miserable she had been for so long. She complained how miserable she was. But she didn’t even leave when Kody refused to support Ysabel’s scoliosis surgery. That was not a deal-breaker for Christine. The deal-breaker that made Christine leaving was Kody saying he was done having sex with her.
I feel like Kody creepily saying “my one pretty wife and she’s shy” was a dig at the OG3. Like yeah, I only have one wife now, but she’s pretty and shy unlike yall (as if being social is a bad thing 🙃)
I was in an abusive relationship and held on for a while. During the last conversation my ex partner said “ I don’t even love you” they might have said to me before but because I was done, I was able to turn off my feelings for them easier.
There is a 70+ day deadline. The doubt will eat at Meri. Meri, the perfectionist, is going to do her research and blow things up before the deadline. Meri takes things head on. She will take it to Kody, and Janelle. Meri gets the facts. And gets things done. Janelle is vague. Janelle left so much unsaid. Janelle has known for years that the finances were messed up and said nothing. Meri was caught off-guard. As uncomfortable as non-confrontational Janelle feels, she knows that Meri gets things done. That's why she went to see Meri. For Meri to confront Kody without him learning that Janelle told her. They are falling back into their stereotypical roles. Old behaviour patterns die hard.
Tbh it seems to me that David wouldn’t have even been at the party if Kody had just RSVP’d yes from the beginning. I don’t think Christine wanted to usurp Gwendlyn’s party with a confrontation with her ex. I think she just wanted to show off her cute new boyfriend to all her kids. And I think Kody just didn’t want to go because he can’t face the tension, and was then told by Robyn and/or production that you really can’t decline this invitation and also pretend your children have all cut you off. But he said no originally, they didn’t think he was going to be there until two days before, and the party was in Arizona where Gwen and Bea were (not sure if they’ve relocated since) while Christine and David were coming in from Utah. I don’t think she would have brought him knowing Kody would be there if they didn’t already have travel plans.
No polygamy is not something. It has too many elements that do not create a healthy and secret relationship. That is between one woman and one man. Of course this is my opinion and to each his or her own belief. I believe Cody is a man that needs a lot of praise, attention, and validation. I don’t know what pecking order he as a child was born in , but I’d probably say he is the odd child out from the rest. He respected his father. But I’d say he rebelled some to his father’s authority and leadership. He wanted to show his father up and I did it, better than another. Ultra ego and not submitted to anyone. I may be wrong, but he can’t seem to find any fault in himself. Although I think I heard he is sorry now for some things. Cody’s idea of a picture perfect family isn’t happening, it’s the wives fault, kids fault, pandemic, dog, etc, never possibly his own lack to be humble and have helpmates, wives, that he loves, respects, and cares for deeply. No Cody was going to have a hard time with one woman that would be able be controlled and give everything he desires and meets his expectations. Finding Robyn and her unique circumstances was a plus for him. I really wish them well. The list of a child is a horrible and tragic. I send condolences and prayers to them all. Me personally, if I hurt one person and continued on as life goes on, I’d be terribly upset with myself. To hurt, damage, and belittle so many, it would devastate me. Forgive me Father for I have caused pain, neglect, and thoughtless action against my own loved ones, friends, and all to whom you created and love. Just in sharing my thoughts I ask for forgiveness in judging this family. I ask you to help each one of them as they continue each day. Bring comfort, peace, and restoration in this family. Speak to each heart and open the blind eyes of error in themselves so they can seek true forgiveness. Those that don’t know you, Father, I ask that you bring them into the kingdom of God by receiving Jesus Christ as Lord. Thank you for hearing my prayers and answering. I bless you Lord God. Hallelujah. In Jesus name Amen
My personal opinion is that Kody would be a philanderer, if it weren't for polygamy. I think that when he got to a point in a relationship when he was looking for "more", he just added another wife.
Robyn had Kodys ear early. The ice blocking, for example. Robyn suggested it, and they did it. Christine said she had suggested it for years, and they never did it.
I would not have deep conversations with anyone with the cameras rolling, especially when there is no mutual trust either. Janelle doesn't know if she can trust Meri. Meri doesn't know if she can trust Janelle. They haven't communicated in years. Kody has sowed the seeds of distrust between them for decades. I hear Kody now, "Meri, you can't have xxx because Janelle says we don't have the money. Janelle is our financial expert and says you can't have it." They both have a long way to go in a short space of time to save their investment together.
I think it was 100% being on a reality show that broke up the family in the long term. They had to play nice and put on happy faces for years while they were miserable. Kody can’t repair any of his relationships without eating crow on a national stage. But ultimately the women had enough money to have legitimate choices. If they didn’t have money they’d all be stuck together.
Remember what kody did to Ysabel? He checked out of her kids lives, spent no time with Christine and then told her she wasn’t attractive to him because she didn’t worship Robyn like he does. Those things made it easier for Christine to recognise that the marriage was over. Not easy, just easier. If a man treats his kids like crap and doesn’t value you as a wife, it gets easier to leave. Plus even when they were still intimate, she said it was like twice a year. And she was single for a year after she moved to Utah, before she started dating.
I did appreciate the hug between Christine and Mary. I feel Christine was very sincere because she has seen the other side and she’s realized how horrible it was for her while she was in the public and she wants the same from Mary because she knows that they all were in survival and any ill feelings Were because of that and that Cody was playing sees it all. I don’t think at that time because it’s been two years ago that Mary was even seen it yet so she knows that Christine doesn’t care for Robin and Mary still thinks Robbins, her friend and Cody‘s gonna be a gentleman, so I saw her being a little reticent about Christine hugging and saying I love you still, but I truly believe it was
That hug was my favorite part of the show. It looked so sincere and heartfelt. They may have their differences, but deep down, there is love and a family bond.
Oh, the babies!!! Physical possession of the babies by Kody and Robyn. Subtext: "They're ours and you can't have them!" Mykelti continues to stir the pot. It was either Mykelti orchestrating the 'worse meeting' or TLC wanting Kody there for ratings. David babysat the twins alone. Mykelti made sure that Kody knew that Kody was lacking as a grandpa. It was something that Kody never did and never would do. Kody just had to throw in that his grandkids are not interesting. 7-year old Ari is interesting. That's the same little girl who hit his truck with a snow shovel. Kody wanted praise for not retaliating against her. Priorities: His truck was more important to him than Ari. It felt like 'Murder face' was put on hold because the cameras were there.
"My husband now has another wife." Who was also my sister-in-law! I will never understand why Janelle (or Kody) would think that Meri would be OK with Janelle marrying Kody and becoming her sister wife.
I think them living in separate houses was one of many decisions that tore them apart. If they had all lived together, where would he run when things got hard. They would be more likely to work things out because there is no where to hide.
I think for Christine, the desire to leave began with Kody saying the way she eats nachos is gross. She was clearly hurt by that. And ever since, it's been a landslide of pain and disappointment. It's no wonder she was happy to leave. I also think Kody is just insecure when he's around other men which is probably why he hangs around women more. I don't think it was ONE thing but MANY things. Robin, the TV series, public exposure and etc. And I definitely agree that Kody was not cut out for polygamy. I believe he was doing it because his Dad did it. Also, have you seen the TLC special "My Husband Not Gay"? It was just a one off that dealt with Mormon couples where the men were attracted to other men but married to women.
Something was wrong and obvious in the episode years ago when Kody and Christine went to Texas with the counselor. Kody did not listen to Christine's point of view/ideas. He bullied her. I knew right then they'd split up at some point.
Hello, I started watching sister wives on and off over the last 10 yrs. But learning about the fls has been interesting. I appreciate both of you and your channel on any subject your discussing. Sam, you are such a gentleman and good kind heart. You found the perfect life partner, all of this is what comes across the screen and conversations. Thank you both for sharing these great perspectives. From a 70 yr old Christian woman, not an easy life but grateful, guard your hearts. ...you ask in this episode what we think or saw the "fall" coming. I have gone back and watched with purpose every episode. In my opinion... it was all Cody, his weak character from the beginning. He did not love these woman, it was a job to get to heaven, even more, so he could grow in the church and even become the leader.....his actions taught the woman to be independent, because he was not going to be there, so when Robin comes in and he falls in love and wants to care for her etc. She let him lead everything, she did not need to be strong and independent like the dog. But Cody decides gosh if all the woman treated me like I was the God, leader we would do well, how do you change horses in the middle of the race, turning strong woman backwards is silly. Had Cody had love in his heart for the woman they could have lived a full life, woman will go to the ends of the earth for their families when they are loved, yes they could share that love....but he had no idea how to make his wives feel secure and loved.....he is not capable. Once his children started to become adults he had no idea how to love them for who they are and respect their company and view points. Cody is less than a man all around, it is like he turned 13 and never grew past that. No doubt he is mentally I'll. The way his anger has grown and his ego has exploded, I would be fearful of what he could do, with all the guns available to him, I would not want him anywhere near the family. I blame TLC for the poison and damage that some of the children have experienced. Had there been love, things could have been different.😊
PS..........once Cody refused being there for Isabel and her back surgery and his statement about being with his family, wow, anyone, anyone connected to him after that is weak in character just like Cody, how disgusting, how repulsive, as a mother that would jump to the head of the line with strength and determination to leave for my children, mamma bear right here.
Sam, i grew up in a weird charismatic christian church & i’ve been away from it for 17+ years. But when I heard Kody say “God spoke to me…” my eyes widened in shock. it’s been SO long since I’ve heard someone talk like that, and it is SO far from my current worldview that it was like a moment of intense flashback to feelings from the past. I know too many people that abused “The God Card” (as my husband and I like to call it), and they would use that as an excuse to justify or pardon any of their behaviors they felt others might judge them for. It often felt like a cheap Christianese cop-out. What a mess! At this point, the notion that anyone would claim to speak for God seems so foreign. Also, didn’t Kody profess to losing his religion many times in the past…? I found it strange that he referenced some sort of God moment in light of that!
I think it probably broke Meris heart in the begging, when Janelle came along and got pregnant basically straight away after Meri had already been married and couldn’t conceive til after.
Actually, Christine has been having a bad relationship with Kody from Day 1 of this show.. She's had a rough time for a long time & was thinking about what life would be like without him for a long time. She was scared and didn't think she could make it on her own but when Covid happened, she found out she could do it in her own & she was done. I've been in the same place. Your soul aches for 10 or 15 years and you just can't take one more minute of it.. it's life changing. Once you get your wings, you fly.
I think Christine was in therapy before the split and made her realize a lot of things. Also she got to end it while Meri had been abandon by Kody for years.
Do you have any idea what Kody may be talking about when he says he was obligated to marry Christine? And if Kody did not believe in the faith any longer why was he so angry by Christine’s leaving? was it simply ego driven to carry on like a nutcase for three years then?
Reason for the fam breakup, Just a narcissistic deadbeat father, abandoning 3 wives and 13 biological children for a wife that has facilitated/ allowed him the convenience for the abandonment,
As far as Christina goes and her leaving like she said she got to the point when he was telling Isabel to go get her surgery on her own and then she knew that she could live without him is why she left but yeah, she was heartbroken for a long time, but she really did try. They all really try except him.
I hope it was healing to realize even “small” members of the community totally talk out of their ass by saying “god spoke to me” We’re all just trying to heal. ❤
I love your weekly questions. I think Sam is right, the core problem was that Kody was never temperamentally meant for polygamy. I think the rest of us were oblivious to that. We only saw that things blew up when Robyn entered the picture. Kody shrugged off the demands of polygamy as soon as he fell for Robyn. Robyn was also never suited for polygamy, even though she claimed she whole-heartedly wanted it. Those two kept babbling on about polygamy, but they settled into a monogamous family during Covid, and that was it. Sam had already seen right through the pious yip yap. Meri and Janelle probably were temperamentally suited for polygamy. Too bad.
New sub here, I find your videos so interesting and informative. I've watched a lot of videos on this subject but find yours to be the best. Glad I found you, I will be binge watching all your videos. Please stay safe and keep up your great work ❤❤
It was a lot of small things that tore the family apart. It was Robyn coming in, because she changed the dynamics and I don't tthink that she really wanted polygamy. It was moving to Las Vegas and having the family split into 4 different families whereas before they all lived in the one house. I think Meri, Janelle, and Christine really changed as their children grew older and left the nest; I think that they all wanted Kody to be a better father to their kids. They were ok with Kody treating in a not so great way, but they weren't comfortable with their kids being treated that way. I think for Christine Ysabel's surgery was the straw that broke the camel's back, I think for Janelle it was the fighting with Gabriel and with Garrison, and for Meri it was the lack of help with the BnB. They all had something.
Each time I hear the new intro music it makes me instantly feel like I'm about to watch a documentary about a secret society, a cold case murder or something! 😉
To me, it seems that Christine is really eager to show people that she is happy and in love. It seems like she needs to convince herself as well. Christine has always lived in a bit of a fantasy land - especially those early years of the show where she would talk so lovingly about her relationship with Kody... I think she is doing the same again with David. I hope it works out well for her, but the way she is going about it leaves me some concern for the long term health of her new relationship.
I don't believe Kody feels shame. I think he feels challenged by another man and blames Christine (or anyone really) for putting him in that position or letting someone else step into "his" spot. It wouldn't be a vacant space if not for kody, though.
Kody never should have married his wife’s sister in law. I feel like this is overlooked. If meri was a poor choice in his mind, I don’t know what would make him think marrying his wife’s sister in law would have led to harmony in the home. No one ever discusses if meri had any animosity or loyalty associated with that divorce. So now Janelle leaving Kody could be viewed as a second betrayal by her.
That makes alot more sense as to why she fails to trust Janelle even when Janelle is trying to help her. I do think it’s weird though she still keeps Kodys interests at heart and I think sees herself as silk the first wife in status .
And also I dont think it was a specific moment that changed the family. The wives said they used to have special traditions for holidays that all changed when Robyn came into the family because she celebrated holidays a different way. So Cody changed the way the family spent their holidays for Robyn. And I think slowly it was more than just the holidays being changed. A lot of things became different to accommodate Robyn and her children. And I say this as probably the one and only Robyn fan out there 😂.
Christine was wrecked! Just because she was composed doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard. Don’t forget what Kody did to Ysabel, that would kill a part of any mothers love for a man.
Fyi... The whole family wasn't at the engagement party. Robyn wouldn't let any of her children attend (not even her adult children) because she doesn't want her children influenced by the others. Other siblings and Jenelle didn't attend either.
I think there's many answers to what broke the family up- I think without the tv show Christine would've stayed til Truly went to college, Janelle would've stayed if COVID hadn't happened cause Kody stopped being a father to all her boys and I think without it being so blatant with COVID she would've stayed and just lived by herself, I think Meri would have left earlier without the catfish because after that it was obvious she was terrified of dating, and Robyn wouldn't have joined the family without the show. I think Robyn started the downfall of the family because it showed that Kody was capable of being a present father but also it made the wives more independent because he wasn't there to make decisions and it opened their eyes to the world and that they could do certain things.
When I see how Kody is with Robyn, I wonder if he was the same way when it was just he and Meri. If so, he is definitely a monogamous man. As far as the downfall, everyone says it's Robyn's fault. Personally, the problems started before Robyn. 1. Meri is the one who initiated the relationship, which makes me ender if that was Meri's way of attempting to fix something she thought was fracturing. 2. Kodys' reaction to Robyn was obsession from the beginning. She was more important than being with Christine when Truly was born. She was more important than the entire family during the pandemic. She was more important when she wanted the jewelry business, but the other wives did not, and Kody attempted to talk them into doing it anyway. She was more important when Robyns son went to college in Flagstaff, so the whole family had to move there. She was more important when Kody had to leave the other wives early due to he and Robyn's young daughter not emotionally handling Daddy not being home. I think for the sake of the church, and the other men influences associated with the church, he tried to play the game, but ultimately, I'm surprised it worked for as long as it did.
The family began to unravel when Kody decided to marry again without his wives clear and explicit approval. Robyn never financially contributed but reap the biggest share of resources..
I really like to hear both of your F/LDS takes on things you bring up. I think there was a comment that some people were maybe not as happy with Sam's experience vs. the EUB, but the cultures sound very similar and having that additional input is valuable. So is the LDS view (to a never-Mormon).
10:01 Melissa, 💯💯💯 I personally believe Christine had been justifiably struggling with her marriage for years (since Truly had that near death medical emergency back in Vegas) I don’t think we saw a lot of that as viewers.. whether that was because Christine hid it or if producers edited it that way… idk but I definitely don’t think it was easy for her to walk away. I think she had just already come to peace with it.
The one thing that changed it for all of them was that at the exact same time that Meri was catfished and they were disfellowshiped, the AUB split into two groups and they did not follow either leader. Once they were cut off and their religion fell apart, their motivation was gone, money was the most important thing, and Kody "didn't give a sh**" anymore. The move to Flagstaff was a result of the problem not the problem. From that point forward the only thing that matter was what Robyn wanted. Robyn didn't feel save in Las Vegas after the shooting so they had to move. Her son was going to Flagstaff so that is were they went. Her kids did not want to share rooms so they had to rent an air bnb until the owners agreed to sell it. All symptoms of the problem not the cause.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Melissa is very right. Christine doesn't feel like she really is rushing because she grieved the marriage and was rediscovering who she was as a single woman for many years BEFORE she left. By the time she really left, she had already grieved the ending and had found her independence and self-confidence as an individual.
If I recall correctly, Christine leaving was not that easy. Kody pushed her out the door when he announced that he had no desire to be intimate with her. She was starved for love and affection. So, of course, divorce is a better option for her. Now she is free to be with someone who loves her, and only her.
Exactly !
I think a lot of the uncomfortable/sometimes performative PDA is literally just Christine being with a man who actually is attracted to her, wants to be hugged and kissed and touched by her, for the first time. She feels that it’s welcome and feels free to do it as much as a 14 year old with their first steady boyfriend, she’s just never had this experience of introducing her boyfriend to people or being out and being able to hold his hand or lay her head on his shoulder *and* she knows he likes it because he’s made that clear to her. I wouldn’t say it’s puppy love but there’s an element of that to how she displays her affection, because she’s never been able to display it before.
Do you remember when Kody was getting ready to go on a date with Robyn where he is standing in front of the mirror in Christine’s bathroom styling his hair etc? Christine noticed he was a giddy schoolboy and that was when she realized that he had fallen head over heels for Robyn. I think that was one of the moments that broke Christine. Which is so sad because that happened in Lehi. Christine was never happy :(
@jewelgazer yes, it was a slow process for Cristine. She said somewhere that she had her house in her name because of advice from Janelle on how to get her money in order incase she was going to leave. And I believe that conversation took place in Las Vegas.
@@nicolemensch4343 Good point. I only wish that Janelle had followed her own advice
You two are just so lovely! I am a therapist in Arizona (and California) and find your channel very helpful with my clients. I so appreciate that you reflect on dynamics without making fun of people's beliefs. You navigate complexities with compassion and depth. Very impressive. I wish you both all the happiness in the world.
I think that when Kody did what he did where Ysabel was concerned that’s what broke Christine. She had been in love with Kody and honestly tried the hardest of all five of them to make the family work. Once he treated Ysabel the way he did that was just it. As a mom I can understand that.
That broke all of us. I was devastated for them as a viewer.
@ you are so right. As a mom I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. Shows what a warrior Christine is handling that situation without any assistance from her child’s other “parent”
100%.
Melissa, you explained exactly what I was thinking about Christine leaving the family. She had suffered for many years as a wife in name only. Certainly when Truely was born, Kody basically abandoned Christine and her kids for his new wife and her kids. I believe Christine tried for years to reconnect with Kody. When he said to her face that he did not want an intimate relationship with her, that was the final straw that caused her to make the decision to leave.
Does that make Christine a “WINO”? I mean, it’s not funny considering the circumstances, but in the words of Christine “if you can’t find humor [was it humor that she said, something like that] in it? What a waste.”
Kody isn’t PROUD of Robyn - he’s POSSESSIVE about her. She is literally all he has left and if that marriage ends, then he will have nothing left.
But the new addition of a younger wife and Robyn would be ‘OLD NEWS’.
Kootie will find out just how loyal robyn is when they split up and robyn alienates kootie from the kids . They will get a new daddy once again 😂
It blew my mind that Meri still thinks Kody won’t screw her over - actually Christine struggled with her decision internally for a few years leading up to it. It’s just when she brought it up she was already over it. Even when they moved to Vegas she was half out of her relationship with him. Melissa is 1000% right.
Meri has lost her mind. And her reaction to Janelle WARNING her was to defend Kody and be offended that Janelle would suggest such a thing. Meri is one of those people who will keep trusting people who aren’t trustworthy and then wonder why they got hurt.
The time that Cody encouraged Christine and said he supported her idea to move back to Utah from coyote pass, was extremely deceptive to Christine . He set her up to pitch it to the wives on the property knowing they would not agree. She ran and broke down. Meri tried to help her. She told Meri “she did not want a relationship like Mari had with Cody”. They all knew Cody rejected Meri.
In my opinion this was the beginning of the end.
He didn’t support the daughter through surgery, heartbreaking! Then he actually blamed his daughter and wanted her to wait longer in pain, this blew my mind.
The absolute last straw was him telling Christine he was not attracted to her, didn’t have feelings for her, and would never have intimacy with her again.
He wanted her property added to the family, his, fund. Yeah right dude. If she would have did that instead of keeping to herself, she would have had no means to get out of this relationship and move.
“Hell have no fury like a woman scorned”. I have contempt for him for words he spoke and the damage he caused his children.
Lastly I’m not surprised the daughters are finding relationships with other women as their partners.
The over all children outside of Robin’s seem to have strained or not at all relationship with Cody. The father figure is tremendously important just as the mother.
Christine had the benefit of seeing how Kody treated Mary for decades and said that’s not for me
The defining moment is when Kody refused to be there with Ysabell for her back surgery. Kody said He “couldn’t be away from his family that long” ysabell then said “ i thought i was part of his family”. It was during that trip that Christine realized she could do this alone, that she could be fine without his help and support. That was a life altering moment when she realized leaving was a real option for her.
I think the catalyst was irrefutably Robyn. The wives have stated how different Kody was as a husband and father before Robyn. They all had even days with Kody before Robyn came in & took far more time. I do think Robyn has manipulated constantly. She was first introduce to Kody through Meri. As strange as it is, for a bit that gave Meri more attention from Kody since it was their secret before Janelle and Christine were told, and Kody was happy about Robyn so acted he appreciative to Meri. Meri did the same when she divorced Kody so Robyn could be the legal wife so the kids could be adopted. Meri got attention of her "good deed" then it bit her in the behind. I think most agree Robyn sought out the family for financial security, as she did not like being a struggling single mom who had to work. The wives said Robyn would have a private talk with them, then would "tell on them" to Kody, getting Kody mad at them, causing strife. Robyn would call on the other wives' days with Kody saying Ari was crying to see Kody, taking him away from his other kids & their family time. It seems Robyn only wanted a polygamist family for what it provided her, but she saw everyone else as just accessories to her life, not as equal wives with their own needs, wants and children.
We all know that Christine wasn’t happy about the courtship, because of the fact that he kept it secret she felt betrayed. They broke the no kissing before marriage rule when they got engaged, and then they did it AGAIN when Christine was literally about to give birth to Truely. Then pile on the wedding dress situation and the 11 day honeymoon, I think it was all too much for the OG family. And as you mentioned she took more and more time that wasn’t hers, and he actually acted like she was his partner when he didn’t with any of the rest.
💯
I will add that Robyn came in with a large amount of debt.
I can’t remember the two wives were working to pay off and carry the family through. Robyn did not work to support anyone’s household or little to other children needs it appeared.
Each of the other wives sacrificed in many ways and received very little credit, respect, and love from Cody.
Yes, Robyn was a huge factor.
We know what tore the family apart. Whoever didn't kiss Kody's ass he treated like shit lol
And stopped giving him money blindly. Started with Meri after the divorce/catfish then Christine bought a home with her profit instead of leave on the family account.
Meri demanded she have as large of a house as the others in Vegas. She demanded that she get the features she wanted. Christine also. Cracks were surfacing, long before, the catfish. Kody expected the women to accept his decisions and KEEP SWEET. It didn’t happen. POOF…….. Goodbye Kody’s dream.😉😉😉😉😉
@@joerudnik9290 The houses that were constructed in Vegas only had a couple choices. They were to be similar sizes, so a much smaller house for Meri wasn’t an option.
I think the game changer was agreeing to participate in this reality show. Not only did they get money but extensive interaction with people who were involved in the production of the show, which gave them different perspectives. Being a celebrity also means hearing in various ways from fans of the show who are more than willing to add their opinions.
After reading Carolyn Jessop’s book I don’t think it’s rare for polygamous men to have a favorite wife. It’s just that Cody’s wives had the ability to leave and leave on their own terms instead of escaping in the middle of the night with nothing.
Kody is territorial. He asks, "How long have you been dating?" His REAL question was "Are you the man Christine left me for? Were you dating BEFORE Christine left?" Kody wanted a silent, dominance stare down with David and instead he found Robyn talking to David and David looking at her. Robyn undermined Kody's attempted power move. Meanwhile, David was polite and looked at the person talking to him.
I almost wish that was the reason for C’s leaving! 😂
Robyn loves competition
In my opinion, the thing that blew up this marriage was Cody bringing Robyn into it. From the beginning, Janelle said that they couldn't afford another wife in the three extra mouths that she was already bringing, Christine said that she already struggled with some issues of feeling insecure in her marriage and not being supported, and Cody just disregarded all of that because he wanted a younger woman to worship him. Cody couldn't handle the responsibilities that he had, let alone bringing these other relationships into it. And Cody and the OG3 had the shared experiences of starting the family, struggling together and working together to build the family. They were all invested in the marriage and the family in a way that Robin never was. Robin got to be the fun mistress without any of the responsibility of supporting the family in a meaningful way. She kept herself separate, kept her children separate, kept Cody separate.
Christine mentally divorced him when he didn’t show up for Isabel
I think people also forget she left Sept. 2021 and didnt date David until about 16 to 18 months later. It just seems like a big jump to us because of how filming goes.
I agree with Melissa that Christine’s marriage was over for years and Christine had been mourning that loss for a while. By the time she left, she was done and didn’t look back. She waited a year for Truely’s sake before she dated anyone. Then she said she went out with about 8 guys before David. She and David communicated for about a month before they met in person. They already had a good feeling about each other before they met. It may have seemed fast, but she found someone who really loved her.
Kody didn't want wives and children to love.
He wanted fans.
And slaves.
These people have kindness in their hearts. It’s so hard to see them suffer ❤
If kody throws Meri a bone, she'll go back to him.
Kody does not want a relationship with his children as it would cost him. But he wants the attention and acknowledgement from them that he is their dad.
IMO the end of the family was when the children and wives saw that Kody was capable, able and willing to do more if he wanted to. I think over the years they thought wasn’t capable of giving more but they thought his heart was still with the family. Once they saw he was capable but not for them then it started to unravel. Then when the kids tried addressing their concerns with their father but he shut them down… nope that was the final blow. That subsequently was the end for the wives (except Meri).
There were certainly many events that led to the end, but one moment that seemed too force the pivotal domino to fall was when Kody told Christine that he no longer wanted to have a sexual relationship. She couldn't come back from that. It was her moment of clarity.
Narcissists loose it when kids grow up and they aren’t the centre of their universe anymore. I think that’s what caused everything to crumble. The kids grew up.
Especially difficult just have been that Janelle was Meris sister in law at one point and according to Janelle herself (in an interview) she was struck by lightning the moment she saw Kody when Meri and him were courting. And after her divorce she hung around them and when Kody decided to replace his fertility challenged wife, him and Janelle had romantic (his words) lunch dates where Janelle miraculously received testimony to join the family and then she wanted to get married on Meris birthday or all days. To this day Kody and Janelle are baffled why Meri didn’t roll out the welcome wagon? 🙄
I think the thing that changed the family was when Robin came in the regular family times stopped happening on a consistent basis (according to Christine they had weekly family time until Robin came in)
Robin is what changed everything. The forced move to AZ, where he discounted his wives concerns about moving.
I’m enjoying Maddie’s new podcast, it’s giving me a new understanding of the dynamics in the Brown family 😮( the authentic society) it is worth listening to and watching on TH-cam, especially for facial expressions, I do like the video version you get extra info from body language and facial expressions. Janelle has said many times that Meri is loyal to a fault with how sheltered Meri obviously seems to have been raised, I suspect that she thinks people are as honest and loyal as she is?🤷🏼♀️
Me too
Maddie has a podcast?
Drop a link?
Kody wooed and married Meri's brother's ex-wife, Janelle. It was Meri's relationship with Kody that exposed Janelle to Kody at family functions. I think that Janelle saw Meri's shiny new husband and coveted that, leading to her being dissatisfied with her marriage. And her first husband may not have been a great match. Kody, no doubt, was charming and attentive to her. So, imagine you are Meri and your sister-in-law divorces your brother to marry your husband. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow.
The thing that made things fall apart is Kody has Narcissistic personality disorder...that will degrade a family over time and is extremely insidious (after all, he's charming and dynamic and pulls people in initially). My mom was married to a narcissist for 20 years and it took that long for her to recognize that she deserved to be treated better. There's a lot of victim blaming when you live with a narcissist so Kody has conditioned the women into thinking *he's* the victim when really he's often the person who's most difficult to live with (explosive temper, can't hear other logical thoughts/perspectives ect). The women probably thought they were crazy and were in survival/fix-it mode for a lot of the marriage....
While I was watching the show, I heard Christine say something in the “private booth” about her faith.
She left the faith years before leaving the marriage.
There were lots of challenges because of her family being “legacy” members -
Kody seems to be more in it for the prestige he perceived not for the actual relationships.
I would have loved to see Kody and Robyn’s faces watching Mary and Christine Hug twice and talking.
LOVE the family pic! that was so sweet to see! thanks for sharing! ❤
I think that honestly the show had the biggest impact. If they didn't do the show they probably wouldn't have had to move to Las Vegas, they probably would have stayed active in the AUB, and because of the that the women wouldn't have really felt like they could leave Kody. The wives also probably wouldn't have had the income and financial means to leave. And while some women will leave with nothing and build from the ground up I don't feel like any of these ladies would have.
I chuckled at the face tattoo part because i remember telling my poor, conservative mother “well, at least it’s not my face” when i tattooed my hands. It’s less of an issue now but as a former Catholic it was a huge line to cross over when i did it a decade ago!
To back a point Melissa was making, coincidentally, I'm listening to an interview Christine gave about eight months ago. Christine said SIX MONTHS after moving to Flagstaff, she started contemplating how to leave because she knew it was over. She said she had been waiting for ten years for Kody to join her kids on outings, have fun, etc. Be a family again. She knew it was over all those years ago. So she had years to slowly process and come to terms with this. These poor, fellow humans. Victims of a cult. 😢 All of them. Even Kody. 😢 (But he's still a jerk! 😂)
It would be interesting to hear Christine's perspective on when she started to deconstruct her belief system around polygamy and AUB
I think being on tv had the biggest impact on the family falling apart for several reasons.
The show estranged them from their church and the community they lived in - the church didn’t approve of them doing the show and they moved out of the community shortly after the show started. Without their beliefs being constantly reinforced, they seem to have faded for most of them.
Moving to Vegas and getting more exposure to the outside world showed them different opportunities than they would have had if they were not public. They saw the world outside their community wasn’t as scary as they had been taught.
The show also gave them more financial stability than they had before. They went from multiple bankruptcies and struggling a lot financially to steady streams of income, both from the show itself and from the MLMs the OG wives joined and are successful at thanks to their fame.
Also, the tv show showed them things they wouldn’t normally see about the other wives’ relationships, and let them hear things from Kody he wouldn’t say to them directly. It also made them have examine and react to their own situations via the couch confessionals in a way most people don’t have to.
I think if they weren’t on tv and Robyn still joined the family, they would have been able to stay in their closed off community with their beliefs intact, kept struggling along financially, and it would have been much easier for the OG wives to ignore/push down their feelings about the favoritism Kody shows toward Robyn.
maybe kody is planting the seed that janelle is in charge of the money so he can blame her when meri gets screwed
I think adding an additional wife and Kody became so fascinated with her was the problem. He got a wife that was ten years younger and dropped everyone. It is kind of the oldest story in the book.
Question of the week: I feel it all fell apart when Robin entered their lives and when Kody started to neglect the OG3 and their kids. I don’t believe it was one incident, I believe it was the combination of events that made the family fall apart.
I haven't seen any comments mentioning being on the show as a catalyst in the family's demise. I think it added a huge amount of pressure--from the faking of being happy and united in the beginning to producers purposely stirring the pot later on, to every viewer having decided opinions about what's going on. Because of the show, disagreements got discussed multiple times, and private thoughts were recorded during times of anger and then replayed for reactions months later, which made every issue and grievance harder to move beyond. Finally, it opened income options for the OG wives that gave them more options when they left, and it made the lives of both wives and kids less sheltered so that leaving seemed like more of a viable option. I don't know that it could be called "the" reason, but I think the show definitely contributed.
Rumor is Robyn only joined the family because she heard the cameras were coming. The combination of the show plus Robyn I feel started them on the path to destruction. Without those two things, they would've remained in the one house and things would be extremely different.
I love your videos. It’s so easy to just shame and blame Robyn and Kody for everything. I really appreciate your measured, kind take on things.
Thank you! ❤️
It's gotta be hard to set aside ego and truly look out for someone not because you like someone, but because you respect them. It seems to me that this episode shows how the og3 are trying to move forward and continue to grow even though "the experience" of polygamy is over.
Regarding Christine: What made her leave was Kody saying he’d no longer have sex with her. Let’s be real. Christine says how miserable she had been for so long. She complained how miserable she was. But she didn’t even leave when Kody refused to support Ysabel’s scoliosis surgery. That was not a deal-breaker for Christine. The deal-breaker that made Christine leaving was Kody saying he was done having sex with her.
I feel like Kody creepily saying “my one pretty wife and she’s shy” was a dig at the OG3. Like yeah, I only have one wife now, but she’s pretty and shy unlike yall (as if being social is a bad thing 🙃)
I was in an abusive relationship and held on for a while. During the last conversation my ex partner said “ I don’t even love you” they might have said to me before but because I was done, I was able to turn off my feelings for them easier.
There is a 70+ day deadline. The doubt will eat at Meri. Meri, the perfectionist, is going to do her research and blow things up before the deadline. Meri takes things head on. She will take it to Kody, and Janelle. Meri gets the facts. And gets things done. Janelle is vague. Janelle left so much unsaid. Janelle has known for years that the finances were messed up and said nothing. Meri was caught off-guard. As uncomfortable as non-confrontational Janelle feels, she knows that Meri gets things done. That's why she went to see Meri. For Meri to confront Kody without him learning that Janelle told her. They are falling back into their stereotypical roles. Old behaviour patterns die hard.
Tbh it seems to me that David wouldn’t have even been at the party if Kody had just RSVP’d yes from the beginning. I don’t think Christine wanted to usurp Gwendlyn’s party with a confrontation with her ex. I think she just wanted to show off her cute new boyfriend to all her kids.
And I think Kody just didn’t want to go because he can’t face the tension, and was then told by Robyn and/or production that you really can’t decline this invitation and also pretend your children have all cut you off.
But he said no originally, they didn’t think he was going to be there until two days before, and the party was in Arizona where Gwen and Bea were (not sure if they’ve relocated since) while Christine and David were coming in from Utah. I don’t think she would have brought him knowing Kody would be there if they didn’t already have travel plans.
According to an interview Christine did, they only had 20 minutes notice from the producers that K and R were in fact coming.
I agree with Sam. Kody began without the requisite characteristics to maintain 3 "marital" relationships, let alone 4.
No polygamy is not something. It has too many elements that do not create a healthy and secret relationship. That is between one woman and one man. Of course this is my opinion and to each his or her own belief.
I believe Cody is a man that needs a lot of praise, attention, and validation. I don’t know what pecking order he as a child was born in , but I’d probably say he is the odd child out from the rest.
He respected his father. But I’d say he rebelled some to his father’s authority and leadership.
He wanted to show his father up and I did it, better than another. Ultra ego and not submitted to anyone. I may be wrong, but he can’t seem to find any fault in himself. Although I think I heard he is sorry now for some things.
Cody’s idea of a picture perfect family isn’t happening, it’s the wives fault, kids fault, pandemic, dog, etc, never possibly his own lack to be humble and have helpmates, wives, that he loves, respects, and cares for deeply.
No Cody was going to have a hard time with one woman that would be able be controlled and give everything he desires and meets his expectations.
Finding Robyn and her unique circumstances was a plus for him. I really wish them well. The list of a child is a horrible and tragic. I send condolences and prayers to them all.
Me personally, if I hurt one person and continued on as life goes on, I’d be terribly upset with myself. To hurt, damage, and belittle so many, it would devastate me.
Forgive me Father for I have caused pain, neglect, and thoughtless action against my own loved ones, friends, and all to whom you created and love.
Just in sharing my thoughts I ask for forgiveness in judging this family. I ask you to help each one of them as they continue each day. Bring comfort, peace, and restoration in this family. Speak to each heart and open the blind eyes of error in themselves so they can seek true forgiveness.
Those that don’t know you, Father, I ask that you bring them into the kingdom of God by receiving Jesus Christ as Lord. Thank you for hearing my prayers and answering. I bless you Lord God. Hallelujah. In Jesus name Amen
The move to Arizona was the start of the end
My personal opinion is that Kody would be a philanderer, if it weren't for polygamy. I think that when he got to a point in a relationship when he was looking for "more", he just added another wife.
Robyn had Kodys ear early. The ice blocking, for example. Robyn suggested it, and they did it. Christine said she had suggested it for years, and they never did it.
What was iceblocking?
Kody didn’t know what he was doing and his personality isn’t one to seek advice
I would not have deep conversations with anyone with the cameras rolling, especially when there is no mutual trust either. Janelle doesn't know if she can trust Meri. Meri doesn't know if she can trust Janelle. They haven't communicated in years. Kody has sowed the seeds of distrust between them for decades. I hear Kody now, "Meri, you can't have xxx because Janelle says we don't have the money. Janelle is our financial expert and says you can't have it." They both have a long way to go in a short space of time to save their investment together.
I think it was 100% being on a reality show that broke up the family in the long term. They had to play nice and put on happy faces for years while they were miserable. Kody can’t repair any of his relationships without eating crow on a national stage. But ultimately the women had enough money to have legitimate choices. If they didn’t have money they’d all be stuck together.
I just love how you put that: “eating crow on a national stage.” Perfectly said.
Remember what kody did to Ysabel? He checked out of her kids lives, spent no time with Christine and then told her she wasn’t attractive to him because she didn’t worship Robyn like he does.
Those things made it easier for Christine to recognise that the marriage was over. Not easy, just easier. If a man treats his kids like crap and doesn’t value you as a wife, it gets easier to leave.
Plus even when they were still intimate, she said it was like twice a year. And she was single for a year after she moved to Utah, before she started dating.
I did appreciate the hug between Christine and Mary. I feel Christine was very sincere because she has seen the other side and she’s realized how horrible it was for her while she was in the public and she wants the same from Mary because she knows that they all were in survival and any ill feelings Were because of that and that Cody was playing sees it all. I don’t think at that time because it’s been two years ago that Mary was even seen it yet so she knows that Christine doesn’t care for Robin and Mary still thinks Robbins, her friend and Cody‘s gonna be a gentleman, so I saw her being a little reticent about Christine hugging and saying I love you still, but I truly believe it was
That hug was my favorite part of the show. It looked so sincere and heartfelt. They may have their differences, but deep down, there is love and a family bond.
Oh, the babies!!! Physical possession of the babies by Kody and Robyn. Subtext: "They're ours and you can't have them!" Mykelti continues to stir the pot. It was either Mykelti orchestrating the 'worse meeting' or TLC wanting Kody there for ratings. David babysat the twins alone. Mykelti made sure that Kody knew that Kody was lacking as a grandpa. It was something that Kody never did and never would do. Kody just had to throw in that his grandkids are not interesting. 7-year old Ari is interesting. That's the same little girl who hit his truck with a snow shovel. Kody wanted praise for not retaliating against her. Priorities: His truck was more important to him than Ari. It felt like 'Murder face' was put on hold because the cameras were there.
Kody had the face for a couple of seconds than shifted back for the camera. He has more affection for a truck than his kid.
Wait, did Kody really say his grandkids are not interesting?
@@utuberhoda Yes
"My husband now has another wife." Who was also my sister-in-law! I will never understand why Janelle (or Kody) would think that Meri would be OK with Janelle marrying Kody and becoming her sister wife.
I think them living in separate houses was one of many decisions that tore them apart. If they had all lived together, where would he run when things got hard. They would be more likely to work things out because there is no where to hide.
What changed for the family was the TV show and all the exposure to the world outside of fundamentalism that happened because of the show. 😊
I think for Christine, the desire to leave began with Kody saying the way she eats nachos is gross. She was clearly hurt by that. And ever since, it's been a landslide of pain and disappointment.
It's no wonder she was happy to leave.
I also think Kody is just insecure when he's around other men which is probably why he hangs around women more.
I don't think it was ONE thing but MANY things. Robin, the TV series, public exposure and etc.
And I definitely agree that Kody was not cut out for polygamy. I believe he was doing it because his Dad did it.
Also, have you seen the TLC special "My Husband Not Gay"? It was just a one off that dealt with Mormon couples where the men were attracted to other men but married to women.
Something was wrong and obvious in the episode years ago when Kody and Christine went to Texas with the counselor. Kody did not listen to Christine's point of view/ideas. He bullied her. I knew right then they'd split up at some point.
Hello, I started watching sister wives on and off over the last 10 yrs. But learning about the fls has been interesting. I appreciate both of you and your channel on any subject your discussing. Sam, you are such a gentleman and good kind heart. You found the perfect life partner, all of this is what comes across the screen and conversations. Thank you both for sharing these great perspectives. From a 70 yr old Christian woman, not an easy life but grateful, guard your hearts. ...you ask in this episode what we think or saw the "fall" coming. I have gone back and watched with purpose every episode. In my opinion... it was all Cody, his weak character from the beginning. He did not love these woman, it was a job to get to heaven, even more, so he could grow in the church and even become the leader.....his actions taught the woman to be independent, because he was not going to be there, so when Robin comes in and he falls in love and wants to care for her etc. She let him lead everything, she did not need to be strong and independent like the dog. But Cody decides gosh if all the woman treated me like I was the God, leader we would do well, how do you change horses in the middle of the race, turning strong woman backwards is silly. Had Cody had love in his heart for the woman they could have lived a full life, woman will go to the ends of the earth for their families when they are loved, yes they could share that love....but he had no idea how to make his wives feel secure and loved.....he is not capable. Once his children started to become adults he had no idea how to love them for who they are and respect their company and view points. Cody is less than a man all around, it is like he turned 13 and never grew past that. No doubt he is mentally I'll. The way his anger has grown and his ego has exploded, I would be fearful of what he could do, with all the guns available to him, I would not want him anywhere near the family. I blame TLC for the poison and damage that some of the children have experienced. Had there been love, things could have been different.😊
PS..........once Cody refused being there for Isabel and her back surgery and his statement about being with his family, wow, anyone, anyone connected to him after that is weak in character just like Cody, how disgusting, how repulsive, as a mother that would jump to the head of the line with strength and determination to leave for my children, mamma bear right here.
I don't think it was 1 thing. It is several things. Being on a TV show, marrying Robyn, Move away from their faith/culture, Kody being a tool
Sam, i grew up in a weird charismatic christian church & i’ve been away from it for 17+ years. But when I heard Kody say “God spoke to me…” my eyes widened in shock. it’s been SO long since I’ve heard someone talk like that, and it is SO far from my current worldview that it was like a moment of intense flashback to feelings from the past. I know too many people that abused “The God Card” (as my husband and I like to call it), and they would use that as an excuse to justify or pardon any of their behaviors they felt others might judge them for. It often felt like a cheap Christianese cop-out. What a mess! At this point, the notion that anyone would claim to speak for God seems so foreign.
Also, didn’t Kody profess to losing his religion many times in the past…? I found it strange that he referenced some sort of God moment in light of that!
I think it probably broke Meris heart in the begging, when Janelle came along and got pregnant basically straight away after Meri had already been married and couldn’t conceive til after.
Actually, Christine has been having a bad relationship with Kody from Day 1 of this show.. She's had a rough time for a long time & was thinking about what life would be like without him for a long time. She was scared and didn't think she could make it on her own but when Covid happened, she found out she could do it in her own & she was done. I've been in the same place. Your soul aches for 10 or 15 years and you just can't take one more minute of it.. it's life changing. Once you get your wings, you fly.
I think Christine was in therapy before the split and made her realize a lot of things. Also she got to end it while Meri had been abandon by Kody for years.
Do you have any idea what Kody may be talking about when he says he was obligated to marry Christine? And if Kody did not believe in the faith any longer why was he so angry by Christine’s leaving? was it simply ego driven to carry on like a nutcase for three years then?
I agree with Sam. I don't think Cody was ever meant to live polygamy.
Reason for the fam breakup, Just a narcissistic deadbeat father, abandoning 3 wives and 13 biological children for a wife that has facilitated/ allowed him the convenience for the abandonment,
As far as Christina goes and her leaving like she said she got to the point when he was telling Isabel to go get her surgery on her own and then she knew that she could live without him is why she left but yeah, she was heartbroken for a long time, but she really did try. They all really try except him.
I hope it was healing to realize even “small” members of the community totally talk out of their ass by saying “god spoke to me”
We’re all just trying to heal. ❤
I love your weekly questions. I think Sam is right, the core problem was that Kody was never temperamentally meant for polygamy. I think the rest of us were oblivious to that. We only saw that things blew up when Robyn entered the picture.
Kody shrugged off the demands of polygamy as soon as he fell for Robyn. Robyn was also never suited for polygamy, even though she claimed she whole-heartedly wanted it. Those two kept babbling on about polygamy, but they settled into a monogamous family during Covid, and that was it. Sam had already seen right through the pious yip yap.
Meri and Janelle probably were temperamentally suited for polygamy. Too bad.
New sub here, I find your videos so interesting and informative. I've watched a lot of videos on this subject but find yours to be the best. Glad I found you, I will be binge watching all your videos. Please stay safe and keep up your great work ❤❤
It was a lot of small things that tore the family apart. It was Robyn coming in, because she changed the dynamics and I don't tthink that she really wanted polygamy. It was moving to Las Vegas and having the family split into 4 different families whereas before they all lived in the one house. I think Meri, Janelle, and Christine really changed as their children grew older and left the nest; I think that they all wanted Kody to be a better father to their kids. They were ok with Kody treating in a not so great way, but they weren't comfortable with their kids being treated that way. I think for Christine Ysabel's surgery was the straw that broke the camel's back, I think for Janelle it was the fighting with Gabriel and with Garrison, and for Meri it was the lack of help with the BnB. They all had something.
Each time I hear the new intro music it makes me instantly feel like I'm about to watch a documentary about a secret society, a cold case murder or something! 😉
To me, it seems that Christine is really eager to show people that she is happy and in love. It seems like she needs to convince herself as well. Christine has always lived in a bit of a fantasy land - especially those early years of the show where she would talk so lovingly about her relationship with Kody... I think she is doing the same again with David. I hope it works out well for her, but the way she is going about it leaves me some concern for the long term health of her new relationship.
It was definitely Kody lusting after and dating Robyn. By the time they were married, the OG3 saw the writing on the wall.
I don't believe Kody feels shame. I think he feels challenged by another man and blames Christine (or anyone really) for putting him in that position or letting someone else step into "his" spot. It wouldn't be a vacant space if not for kody, though.
I agree. Kody doesn't strike me as person who feels shame. Anger, yes. Embarrassment, maybe, but shame, no.
Kody never should have married his wife’s sister in law. I feel like this is overlooked. If meri was a poor choice in his mind, I don’t know what would make him think marrying his wife’s sister in law would have led to harmony in the home. No one ever discusses if meri had any animosity or loyalty associated with that divorce. So now Janelle leaving Kody could be viewed as a second betrayal by her.
That makes alot more sense as to why she fails to trust Janelle even when Janelle is trying to help her. I do think it’s weird though she still keeps Kodys interests at heart and I think sees herself as silk the first wife in status .
Another problem between Meri and Janelle is that Janelle was married to Meris brother and shortly after that divorce she married Kody.
The other super awkward thing is that Jenelle and Meri were sisters-in-law before they became sister wives.
The one thing that I think changed it was when Kody divorced Meri to marry Robyn.
And also I dont think it was a specific moment that changed the family. The wives said they used to have special traditions for holidays that all changed when Robyn came into the family because she celebrated holidays a different way. So Cody changed the way the family spent their holidays for Robyn. And I think slowly it was more than just the holidays being changed. A lot of things became different to accommodate Robyn and her children. And I say this as probably the one and only Robyn fan out there 😂.
Christine was wrecked! Just because she was composed doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard. Don’t forget what Kody did to Ysabel, that would kill a part of any mothers love for a man.
Fyi... The whole family wasn't at the engagement party. Robyn wouldn't let any of her children attend (not even her adult children) because she doesn't want her children influenced by the others. Other siblings and Jenelle didn't attend either.
I think there's many answers to what broke the family up- I think without the tv show Christine would've stayed til Truly went to college, Janelle would've stayed if COVID hadn't happened cause Kody stopped being a father to all her boys and I think without it being so blatant with COVID she would've stayed and just lived by herself, I think Meri would have left earlier without the catfish because after that it was obvious she was terrified of dating, and Robyn wouldn't have joined the family without the show. I think Robyn started the downfall of the family because it showed that Kody was capable of being a present father but also it made the wives more independent because he wasn't there to make decisions and it opened their eyes to the world and that they could do certain things.
When I see how Kody is with Robyn, I wonder if he was the same way when it was just he and Meri. If so, he is definitely a monogamous man.
As far as the downfall, everyone says it's Robyn's fault. Personally, the problems started before Robyn. 1. Meri is the one who initiated the relationship, which makes me ender if that was Meri's way of attempting to fix something she thought was fracturing. 2. Kodys' reaction to Robyn was obsession from the beginning. She was more important than being with Christine when Truly was born. She was more important than the entire family during the pandemic. She was more important when she wanted the jewelry business, but the other wives did not, and Kody attempted to talk them into doing it anyway. She was more important when Robyns son went to college in Flagstaff, so the whole family had to move there. She was more important when Kody had to leave the other wives early due to he and Robyn's young daughter not emotionally handling Daddy not being home.
I think for the sake of the church, and the other men influences associated with the church, he tried to play the game, but ultimately, I'm surprised it worked for as long as it did.
The family began to unravel when Kody decided to marry again without his wives clear and explicit approval. Robyn never financially contributed but reap the biggest share of resources..
I really like to hear both of your F/LDS takes on things you bring up. I think there was a comment that some people were maybe not as happy with Sam's experience vs. the EUB, but the cultures sound very similar and having that additional input is valuable. So is the LDS view (to a never-Mormon).
10:01 Melissa, 💯💯💯
I personally believe Christine had been justifiably struggling with her marriage for years (since Truly had that near death medical emergency back in Vegas) I don’t think we saw a lot of that as viewers.. whether that was because Christine hid it or if producers edited it that way… idk but I definitely don’t think it was easy for her to walk away. I think she had just already come to peace with it.
I think Christine was right about leaving Utah in fear.
Christine said it plainly. Kody got a favorite. Polygamy doesnt work when one family monopolizes the mans time and resources
The one thing that changed it for all of them was that at the exact same time that Meri was catfished and they were disfellowshiped, the AUB split into two groups and they did not follow either leader. Once they were cut off and their religion fell apart, their motivation was gone, money was the most important thing, and Kody "didn't give a sh**" anymore. The move to Flagstaff was a result of the problem not the problem. From that point forward the only thing that matter was what Robyn wanted. Robyn didn't feel save in Las Vegas after the shooting so they had to move. Her son was going to Flagstaff so that is were they went. Her kids did not want to share rooms so they had to rent an air bnb until the owners agreed to sell it. All symptoms of the problem not the cause.
Thank you, great job