Hey, just a quick correction on stability being useless on bows, it actually secretly affects how long the perfect draw window lasts which is important for Le Monarch because it’s perfect draw is incredibly short
Also, since you didn’t mention it, Tunnel Vision on Trespasser is reprocked whenever you get a kill because it counts as a true reload (a reload effect that procks Kill Clip style percs, example: marksman dodge) so it effectively makes Unrepentant bursts easier to hit.
@@carlosjosephgomez1495 yeah but I just don’t rate tunnel vision as a perk that’s why I rank it so low. Personal preference affected a couple guns on this list like trespasser
In my testing yes that stability increased the perfect draw window (it was in the script I just didn’t feel like explaining how the perfect draw coefficient was impacted by stability) slipped through the cracks
I was thinking quicksilver storm, it's a direct damage downgrade if you're not planning on using strand or tangles, since kinetic weapons have an intrinsic damage buff over stasis and strand weapons.
@@paragon5186 the grenade launcher mode has identical damage between the strand and kinetic variants, the autorifle mode does more damage when using kinetic than strand (10% more, from 2223 to 2446 precision damage when testing on Europa patrol enemies)
a note on trinity without the catalyst, it requieres a precision kill with the arrows themseleves, which is extremely tedious given that it shoots 3 at a time. that just makes the catalyst a bigger of a glowup, cuz with it the loop becomes much more simple and the proc conditions on the lightning rod are way easier
Yes! Upon review I should have worded it better that the catalyst allows for any kills including the lighting strikes can trigger lightning rod. I was more focused on the perpetual motion nature of the catalyst.
A lot of people forget how much of a meme this weapon was before the catalyst. It was considered one of the worst exotics in the game. Now it's one of the best ad clear weapons in the game.
you can just not change the cerberus fire mode tho? it doesnt affect the default firing mode at all so you can completely ignore it. its neutral at worst
Hardlight would be pretty nasty if it could use elemental add-clear perks (incandescence, destabilize, volt shot) or disruption break (to lean into its utility when you've got tons of different elemental shields to pop). Great video, needs more views.
I think it should get sheild disorent, the main drawback for the perk, and the thing that made it suck was that it only works on matching Shields, which works really well for hard light
Borealis, like hard light, used to function differently in regards to their element changes. Hard light used to have to be manually selected similarly to a barrel, if I remember correctly, and Borealis used to need to reload the full magazine and endure a full reload animation to change elements. This caused the catalyst to actually have a purpose back in the day, now it appears it does not apply to the element change animation speed at all.
28:31 Monte Carlo's catalyst does a little bit more. By swapping to the glave mode and getting a kill you get The Monte Carlo method times 5. You can also swap guns and still keep glave mode active, so you can use your subclass melee still. So when you go from gunfight to gunfight, you can have times 5 active for a long time, meaning you get your melee back faster and have higher damage with the weapon.
I just quickly wanna mention that the second thing that Ticuu's (however you spell it) catalyst does is that when you hit a target with a fully drawn shot that DOESN'T have Sacred Flame, it refreshes the timer for Causality Arrows
A thing I've noticed since cleaning up catalyst I've sat on for years is that year 1 catalyst feel like they just lock part of the gun away till you get an arbitrary amount of kills, which most of them end up being only like a +30 stat boost
I don’t get the hate for Thunderlord, it’s a gun that can get you through damn near every piece of content in the game, also combine the catalyst with Actium War Rig and you never have to reload.
its not a bad weapon it just has the reputation of being annoying because people who dont understand much about end game dps strategies mistake thunder lords ability to shoot without stopping as being ideal dps. its a myth that youtubers perpetuated ever since it got its catalyst in season of the plunder
@@paragon5186tbh it’s one of the most consistent forms of dps for nezzy since his crack ass won’t stay still and usually has everyone missing at least one rocket. Also reduces the chances of killing yourself significantly since those plates are small and lfgs suck at communicating. Now I’m not saying it’s the best it’s just consistent which is nice
Thunderlord while not the best is one of the easiest and most consistent DPS options on some bosses like nezzerec or any boss tormenters, it’s a great starter weapon cuz of that, now if only they’d take thunderlord and make that the baseline for all MG boss damage and then buff up thunderlord to be right under rockets or GLS Ngl this is the first im ever hearing if hate for the gun, like if ye see someone brought a thunderlord you arent gonna complain typically, yr gonna be like oki good enough that works. No need to be 100% optimal all the time when good enough will cut it 99% of the time
Haven't watched the video yet. Cerberus+1 catalyst better be at the bottom because it's the only catalyst I can think of that actively hurts the exotic's performance.
@@paragon5186 I’m happy you somehow find use out of it but ain’t no way it’s A tier. Why take ages to switch firing modes when I can simply move closer and have higher dps instead of trying to use a close/mid-range weapon as a mid/long range weapon
@@thecaptain9496 Cerberus does less damage the closer are to the target in regular firing mode. Because it “fixes” this issue I rate the catalyst highly. Don’t get me wrong I still think Cerberus is unusable but it fixes the guns MAJOR flaw in that the range is inverse. Makes is much more usable but still, it’s not a good gun. That’s my rationale, I’m ranking catalysts today only not guns. I already made a weapon tier list, I might revisit it post final shape but I need to wait for more weapon tuning to drop! Thanks for watching the video!
30:15 Also note to anyone who may see this, the osteo catalyst ALSO counts any poison damage kills towards giving ammo back. So you can melee enemies (INCLUDING with glaives) with Necrotics and get bullets back. Goes absolutely crazy on strand. Also will test this but I think that the unravel projectiles spread poison, and I KNOW that the poison activates Unraveled
Being able to apply a 15% debuff to any enemy you hit with Buried Bloodline has trivialized the horde mode Onslaught. It's been the main build I've used with Orpheus Rig, and Edge Transit- and I can safely say Buried Bloodline's caty is WAY better than what you credited it for.
Maybe a little bit, I didn’t have time to use it as much as I wanted it to, plus damage tweaking from special sidearms wasn’t live the season I made this so if I were to redo this I would rank it higher, I underestimated the strength of weaken and how easy It was to proc since I’m usually not using devour builds
I feel like hierarchy of needs catalyst massively boosts the weapon from its base state, cause the draw speed is much faster than that of archers tempo
That’s the thing; every catalyst has a use EVEN if it’s not much, which is why I can’t call it bad, I still rate Cerberus catalyst highly since it is such a confusing gun it makes it easier to use
And to touch on the base fire mode, the gun is designed so “wackily” that it does more damage the further away you are. It’s just not efficient to even attempt to use the regular fire mode close up which is why the catalyst is so good in my opinion
@paragon5186 except the ttk is better just using normal fire as well as more reliable in pvp since the alternative fire has a damage falloff of around 6m. 1 meter longer than melee lunge distance. The reverse damage falloff on standard fire is so that you can do any damage outside of point blank since you will have less bullets on target.
As a titan main I am fuming that the Monte Carlo catalyst is in c tier You put that stuff with wormgod or synthos and banner of war you can get like 800k+ dmg on a melee
@@paragon5186 and that’s the best part it barely works half the time (this ranking is really accurate and for the love of god even with strand banner builds please just use quicksilver it’s so much better) I haven’t tried it with one two punch but I think it’d be good since you might get the 200% unpowered melee boost as opposed to the 40% powered melee boost Or it just doesn’t work
A note about Revision Zero, with 4th times the charm, you can potentially get up to 8 sniper shots if you time it right, that plus vorpal weapon is huge boss dps for a solid primary.
My only issue with this is that other guns do this better. It’s good and synergies well yes, but this use case scenario only applies to a dozen bosses in the game most of whom are raid bosses that you should be using other weapons anyway. Outlaw has more over functionality, but I still keep a revision with fourth times in the vault if I want to mess around
Nobody is using primaries for dps in the current meta. Also revision zeros dps falls off a cliff after you have shot your sniper bullets, touch of malice is 10x more fun and also shits all over revision zero for overall dps.
I like most of this list except on revision zero I think 4th times could be in B or even A as increasing the shots of the sniper from 4 to 6 can really help burst down some meaty targets in endgame, and makes it much better at being an emergency backup dps
Yeah that was my thought to however revision zeros best use case scenario isn’t hunters trance, it’s a workhouse yes but your wasting fourths time the charm as a perk on a select minority of enemies that could actually wits and that type of damage, there is like 2 dozen at best that you wouldn’t be better using anything else. Even at that those two extra hunters trance shots aren’t worth using the exotic on revision zero.
29:37 I remember bungie said they are going to remake or add a catalyst to necrochasm (one for thrall), maybe it’s like another archer’s tempo on levi’s breath. Also about sweet business explosive rounds, it’s not a part of the catalyst, it’s a built-in function bungie added (I think season of the witch)
saying outlaw is the best in revision zero is OUTRAGEOUS. Fourth times the charm makes revision zero into a beast of sustain damage allowing you to keep on collecting stacks to use your secondary fire, it also stacks with it making it one of the best champion bully weapons. super high A tier if not S, fundamentally tying into the exotic perk itself and improving massively on the gameplay of it
My problem with this statement is in my opinion using revision zero with the 4th time refit is a waste of its talents. The exotic slot is better spent on other weapons if damage is what you are looking for. Sure it’s funny to get 6 shots of hunters trance but it’s just a waste of time imo
Necrochasm is NOT an underwhelming gun, the catalyst as of now definitely is because as you mentioned for Delicate Tomb's catalyst being mid, Necrochasm already has good reload and that's exactly why they're replacing it with One for Thrall
As someone who used to no-life this game, minor recommendation, instead of giving a one overall ranking give it 2 separate rankings, because for example, crimson, in pve the catalyst does just about nothing, however in pvp it’s game changing and allows you to contest at wayyyy longer ranges. From what it looked like you only used pve to judge the use of catalysts but you have to keep in mind that pvp and pve sandboxes are different and each gun and their catalyst plays differently between the two sandboxes.
I wouldn’t say “way longer” in the current sandbox it’s effectively a 2 meter range increase before drop off occurs. Minimal, it’s still useful but it’s not much better. Crimson much more useful outside of crucible
@@paragon5186 personally I disagree on the “minimal” part, because with that 2 meter increase the drop off where it’s still viable is that much longer, in my experience 6 meters after drop off is where it stops being as viable, increasing that to 8 meters allows you to cover a lot more engagements. This is just my opinion though, so it’s not gospel
35:42 the catalyst, doesn’t actually provide the explosive bullet, I used it for a little bit back when it got the explosive bullet and I dont have the catalyst for it yet
I used Fourth Times the Charm for Revision Zero, because it used to work with the sniper rounds it loaded giving you 6, potentially 8 if you hit a 2 burst, switch to sniper, hit 2 sniper rounds within the FTTC window, it procs and loads another 2 sniper rounds, so you have a full mag again, then you hit those 4, and it reloads 2 to the sniper rounds and you've doubled the number of sniper rounds, then it got buggy and a single round would reset it back to pulse rifle mode, I haven't used it since season 19 though.
Have you actually used Wicked Implement on a Stasis build? Its amazing.... its a precision scout it gets headstone to spawn a crystal, you shoot the crystal to get a shard, shard loads 5, rinse and repeat. In my opinion it makes wicked implement one of the best scouts in the game. Not even including the fact that it can stun Overload and Unstoppable without any Season mods
cerberus catalyst completely destroys the effectiveness of the gun. cerberus in its regular form excels at mid-range to smg-range fights, if 2 or more bullets hit. it flinches like hell, it has good CC capabilities. it also works great upclose and shreds adds, flinching them in the process. the catalyst is more than useless. it provides no real advantage in either pve or pvp, doesn't change the dps number, only 1-mag damage, it destroys the flinch/stagger this weapon can cause, it tanks the range, it tanks the RoF and replaces it with mid ass pseudo-shotgun bullshittery. it's the only catalyst in the game that actually DETRIMENTS the weapon if you use it. the only advantage it gives is that you spend your mag longer. that's it. it belongs lower than F tier man. i'm really sad that such a cool gun got such a shit catalyst
It’s all about the inverse range stat, close range damage testing the alt fire more clears regular fire mode, Cerberus isn’t a useful gun in any capacity but the catalyst fixes its biggest issue. Argue flinch being useful sure but be honest for a second, who is actually using Cerberus in any serious capacity?
@paragon5186 The reverse falloff isn't enough to offset the other 3 rounds hitting the target. You keep mentioning this point but honestly the "issue" there isn't relevant. It comes across as you not really using the weapon all that much and failing to understand it's strengths, and why the catalyst hits those strengths in a bad way.
I'm gonna stop you at Travelers. Surplus gives extra stats per ability charge, up to 3. The exotic perk gives extra stats up to 10. When you have all abilities and no Light stacks increases you stats to 95 Stability and 100 handling. At 2 stacks it still has max Handling and 85 Stability. While we can't really see how much the gathering Light Perk gives, just having 2 abilities charged for such good stats is insane and not to be overlooked. For example when you consume your stacks you most likely gained back alot of energy, maybe enough to have abilities completely charged again. That's where surplus shines. Before it had a dilemma of either sacrificing your stats for Ability Energy, or the other way around. Now you can just consume your light stacks to still retain insane stats. Also Travelers has increased stats right of the gate now, not needing to get kills before to get better stats The Perks actually very much work together to assure that you have no downtime in performance In PvE it still wont do shit for you though, so probably still B tier
My recommendation is to slow down and enunciate a little more. I had a hard time understanding what you were saying at some points. Also, make sure to always show us proof on what the changes are. Bad Juju getting a 1s boost to String of Curses is great, but not explaining the damage difference for Ace of Spades and then immediately moving on to Agers Sceptor made me feel rushed.
I think you undersold the catalyst for hierarchy of needs. It actually cuts the draw speed in half as opposed to the 25% faster draw speed archers tempo gives. It prob doesnt feel as insane due to the abnormally high charge time of the bow (only ones higher are wishender and levi's breath). Although I've found that the catalyst along with the fact that the ring only needs a half-charged arrow to spawn the seeking projectiles I can spam out shots really quickly
Firm disagree on the Heir Apparent catalyst. The shield strength boost makes you a durable monster, the reload on shield break helps you shoot your way out of situations where the shield didn’t help too much. Also, with some setup versus bosses that eat through that shield quickly, you can stand in a friendly warlock’s well and face tank the boss. The shield will begin building because you’re quickly regenerated to full, but then the next hit breaks the newly regenerating shield, reloading Heir Apparent. Very useful in raids and nightfalls, especially since it also allows you to survive while holding a tough boss’s attention. Been a while since I’ve played D2, but it’s a strategy that not many knew about.
for jotuun catalyst, if you play on solar titan, it's a must since ignition kill drop sunspot, which deal a lot of damage, as well as create a safe space for you to stand in. it turn the gun from a grenade launcher to a rocket launcher that drop a "healing rift" on kill. Not to mention how good it pairs with other solar abilities. I agree with it being A tier on other class, but it deserve a S tier on titan
Wasn’t doing anything class specific though I can see how it would be much more useful on solar titan. Even at that 1 out of 15 subclasses wouldn’t be enough to shift, the S tier catalysts are the ones that are either mandatory for use or game changing on all classes and styles of play
A lot of the newer ones are to enable running on different classes than the gun class. My guess is because final shape has a focus on combining classes
because all the catalyst does it allow for weaken to proc. every good part of the gun is outside of its catalyst and this tier list is for the catalysts alone
IMO you couldn't be more wrong about buried bloodline. Adding weaken to that thing makes it a beast. Especially in team play higher level stuff. But, you're entitled to your own opinion.
The stability boost from the sunshot catalyst is the only reason why I use the gun, the awful kickback on the base gun was so offputting on console that I avoided the gun for years. I just got sick of spending 80% of the time looking at the sky.
@@paragon5186nah bro, this shit is laughably bad, you want a shotgun? Use a shotgun? This just isnt ever worth it outside of basic entry level content.
Came here to make sure Ager made it near the top and it did, so you get a like. The downside of using up super energy is not a downside if you hate your super, eg. the warlock stasis super. Overcharge mode almost equals Chaos Reach for damage done to bosses, and it's unbelievably good for melting crowds of yellow bars in Onslaught. Please try it folks!
Can we get a theoretical ranking on the upcoming Necro catalyst buff? From the Season 23 Weapons Tuning Preview on 10/25: "It will also have a new catalyst called One for Thrall, which grants a moderate period of increased damage, range, and aim assist after you damage three enemies in quick succession. Damaging three more enemies while the perk is active refreshes the timer.”
Theoretically this would put necrochasm into A-S tier I think. It’s very good for the gun but I would need to do some testing. Catalysts that do one REALLY good thing get into S tier but this sounds like it would be A tier considering it’s just modified one for all and outlaw
Necrochasm will be getting a buff to extend the duration of the poison damage-over-time effect it applies from the Cursed Thrall explosion. It will also have a new catalyst called One for Thrall, which grants a moderate period of increased damage, range, and aim assist after you damage three enemies in quick succession. Damaging three more enemies while the perk is active refreshes the timer.
@@Dovwah yeah I was just ranking the current catalyst being outlaw, not a huge fan, it helps but still still will be better eventually when the tuning happens
Deeper pockets sure are the same effect. But in practice the addition of a stronger version of Archers tempo allows Levi’s to be a top tier damage option. I’d say you should not even consider using Levi’s unless you have the catalyst that’s how strong the effect is. Sleeper on the other hand. Deeper pockets more ammo - great - but accelerated coils decreases the guns damage, it’s encounter dependent on whether it’s good or bad but it’s not mandatory for the gun to function at a high level. So yes technically speaking they have the same base effects, that being increased ammo and a faster rate of fire, leviathans breath does it in way where it takes the gun from F tier to S tier where as Sleeper catalyst barely budges the gun out of B tier to A tier. Still an ok option just encounter dependent.
I know the sweet business is not a good weapon, there’s way better options and the catalyst isn’t the greatest, but using it with a proper build clears out ads, and leaves options to kill tougher enemies and bosses with other options if you got the mods correctly. Adding a good machine gun to the mix with actium war rig makes for a really fun build that isn’t too bad in higher level content
Appreciate the compliment boss glad you enjoyed. Doing more/ better informative scripts after my next series of videos. Stay tuned for more and subscribe if you haven’t!
You've definitely earned a subscriber. However, I disagree with your placement of Sweet Business's catalyst. As an avid Sweetie Biz user I have to say that the catalyst is A-tier. With Sweez Buzz and Actium War Rig, the up time of the explosive rounds is a game changer. I already chewed through mobs before and now I just have to get close to them before spitting them out. Reloading and aiming is a thing of the past with the catalyst.
Changing the element of a weapon, when it is kinetic, is actually not a buff. Kinetic ammo does 15% more damage than non-kinetic ammo, so Travellers Chosen does LESS damage when you throw a nade and change its ammo-type. Same goes for Quicksilver Storm, but there you get other buffs.
Love this! thank you for the time and effort you put into this! Just a heads up though... you are missing the time stamp for Malfeasance. It is in the Lumina time stamp. I don't care, I just happen to notice because it is my favorite hand cannon. haha
18:28 A little while ago, they changed the missile volley functionality so you don't have to fire the full volley at once. I believe it's now bursts of five. Better than original, but still not ideal.
@@AdventureMonte pretty much that’s the case, 8 mandatory catalysts, 20 are less mandatory but still very good. And the rest just kinda float there doing nothing
@@paragon5186 I did Skyburner's and Polaris back-to-back. Somehow failed to remember Skyburner's is auto, and I'm a bull-headed purist who refuses to turn auto on full-time. I'd be shocked if I ever shoot Polaris again.
@@AdventureMonte Polaris lance catalyst is very good, I personally won’t use the gun ever again because of how much I used it last season for gm nightfalls
each kill with the bayonet gives you half of your melee charge, so two bayonet kills gives you a smoke bomb, thunderclap, needle, celestial fire or throwing hammer just to name the good melees it's more than a c tier catalyst it's a b- at best
I’m gonna speak to the one exception (now outdated) being the old cerberus +1 ccatalyst. Most of the opinions ive gathered about it from the people who actively use it are that it was a mistake to use, and I think because of that would actually lead to worse play patterns with the gun in PvP at least. Love my cerb and once i get used to the new catalyst i hope to love it more
If you haven’t already I posted a video with my first impressions on the new catalyst, literally my first crucible games of the season. Another fellow Cerberus enjoyer!
@@paragon5186its less effective with the catalyst as it cuts the range down way too much. It fixes one issue but gives it another issue to compensate. That why you see so many people that do run it run it without the cata. Thats why people who run it have been asking for a buff. Its unique yes, but not good. Its at best with the HARSH range falloff a D tier cata.
Saying that the Forerunner catalyst is giving you "free" grenade when it consumes 5 ammo to use. not to mention the grenade is very meh, has low radius and not so good damage.
Verily appreciated :> I have began with D1 alpha and have long enjoyed Sunshot, though somehow do not have the catalyst yet ^^;; I am busier these days and just play casually without regards to the annoying shield type breaks - excepting when I secured Queensguard~
I do wish that Thunderlord's catalyst at the very least increased the damage of the lightning strikes themselves, at least then the catalyst would do something other than allowing you to speedrun through your ammo reserves.
On paper it’s a good catalyst but hierarchy suffers from other issues most notably bad tracking and auto conversion to tracking arrows. It could be better but it doesn’t solve any of the bows core issues. For me Witherhoard catalyst is top 3 but nothing can top acrius catalyst in terms of sheer “you cannot use this gun without its catalyst” scale. And it just so happens to make the gun one of the best damage options in the game.
@paragon5186 I disagree. Hierarchy is miserable to use without the catalyst because it is obnoxiously slow. It's significantly better with it. It nets you more uses of the tracking seekers. In my opinion, you *need* it to use the bow.
@@toolsheen136 the gameplay I used in the video was pre catalyst, post catalyst was used on a separate account when I compared side by side the increases to draw speed/damage were minimal, the tracking didn’t improve in any significant matter. Personal matter maybe? I don’t like the bow I feel that it’s not usable but there was nothing about the catalyst I used on the other account that made me run to my main to get done. Thus my ranking. I do appreciate your point of view and that you care enough to comment and debate the point.
@@paragon5186 Draw time goes from 756 to 200 and reload while not fully known appears to be about a 0.1 difference the dps also massively increases becoming the highest dps primary in the game even beating out Touch unless Touch's 50% perk is active but even then it's close. When it comes to the tracking arrows I'd say don't treat them like Wardcliff or Eyes where shooting anywhere will have effect, ALWAYS aim for your target as they seem to track the target closest to where your reticle it's kinda like the rocket sidearm and Buried Bloodline. The gun itself needs help but the catalyst is massive and it's the exact reason why it split the community on if it's good or bad since the bow itself is pretty meh to bad but the draw time bonus makes it insane while active.
@@paragon5186I have to chime in here, the draw time increase isn't just noticeable, it is huge. The difference in the RoF when have a guidance ring up with the catalyst over the base is very significant. It really impacts the feel of firing it.
re: Black Talon You just perfectly described how I feel about the Monte Carlo catalyst. It actively works against why I use Monte Carlo, I would have preferred an old school stat boost or time extension to Markov Chain method. Now to find out what you think about Monte Carlo's catalyst.
I disagree on the vexcaliber part feedback refit allows you to keep shooting and thus keep youre shield up while repositioning and tanking a strong enemy
think about why vexcalibur is strong, in my point of view its the melee chaining, you dont need alot of energy to start the shield since it regens over time, getting quick bursts of energy and then being able to use the shield for melee chaining is why it strong. other playstyles involving shooting dont make alot of sense with this exotic
@paragon5186 I find vexcaliber strong because unlike other glaives where your health slowly drains while blocking (since you take some damage), vexcaliber gives you hp in the form of an over shield I tend to also use this as a source of overshield for grenade regen on void titan. We just have different playstyles
Revision Zero with Outlaw is craaazy. If you're gonna use it for PvE, the only catty you should ever even consider is 4TTC, because it can give you an extra 2 Hunter's Trace rounds, completely free (also makes the magazine last significantly longer because a single 4-burst shot is enough to get the perk to proc). In PvP, I guess Outlaw is fine, but I don't really think there's any particular reason to use it over any other pulse(unless you're like me and use it obsessively)
So you got Cerberus +1 wrong. Only the center round gains damage the further away you are, every other shot scales down. With that being said, you do far more damage the closer you are to a target, as the damage from the other barrels exceed the damage of the individual barrel. The catalyst just makes it a shotgun, which people assume that's how you're supposed to use it (you're not).
4:19 there is also the hidden interation the catalyst gives that isnt very useful where it causes a cursed thrall explosion after an insanely high amount of kills without dying, if only it did that more often 33:05 4th times the charm is far better on revision zero, since it works on the sniper alt fire, and you can pair it with vorpal. So not only is yr sniper rounds doin 20% more you get two more if you land yr crits. Miss when it could get 8 shots in a row. Outlaw is kinda a wasted pick
What are you on with Hardlight? Hardlight was useless without the catalyst back in the day because it jumped all over the place because of how bad the recoil was.
@@paragon5186 you’re also undercutting the value of stability and how it doesn’t just make recoil control easier but adds flinch resistance which makes staying on target even easier to manage while under fire.
@@dracaevancy5383 input dependent tbh, I play on M&K and have 7 years of experience dealing with it so I do not notice any major changes, but like I said I also plugged in my controller and on hard light specifically it is easy to control in any circumstance
Recoil wasn't Hardlight's problem back in the day, it was the ridiculous screen shake. Once that was taken away the usability of the weapon improved dramatically, and the recoil direction had nothing to do with it..
Some of the S Tier catys like Gjally and Eriana's always felt cheap because it seems Bungie made the weapon, then nerfed it by taking away key perks and abilities and putting them into the caty. They were always designed to be used with the caty, which is why they're released alongside each other, and the base version is just a step in the quest towards obtaining it, similar to Rose and Husk of the Pit during those exotic quests, or more relevant, Legend of Acrius's first form with 1 in the mag during it's original quest. I like catys that are released much later for already finished exotics that add additional function that wasn't originally planned, or make them much better, like Trinity Ghoul or even Thorn.
Considering even if you split the player base evenly majority of the players are going to be on the two consoles versus the PC so if you're going to be ranking catalysts you should be ranking them on a console because that stability trust me it really f****** matters
i have a controller plugged into my computer at all times, i played destiny for 5 years on controller before switching, i did all my testing where it matters with both M&K and controller, and in the case of hard light it doesnt matter
One of my favorite builds that I run is witherhoard with the catalyst. Gnawing hunger with demolitionist and auto loading, with bad omens with cluster and auto loading. No reloading for me. Pair it with verity’s brow on a void warlock and I’m triggering volatile all the time and devour and unlimited grenades.
I see all my comments! Unfortunate I had to make some edits post upload and lost a couple seconds of audio, most of it is superficial but that’s one where it’s not
@@paragon5186 Alright, then how about this - Steelfeather Repeater I've kept around from New Light. Rolled with Extended Barrel, Light Mag, Slideways and Vorpal. Good roll? Cause I am not deleting it anytime soon.
@@KSword007 steel feather is one of those “copium” guns that I feel people kept because it was unique, it’s cool that it’s coming back and we can infuse it again. But it won’t be particularly good because of all the power creep. Only exception I feel will be the old black armory guns which are fundamentally unique and still have nothing that replaces them to this day
New to your channel. Interesting content, couple of suggestions to make it easier to follow, title of gun on the screen would be helpful, and it would be nice to see it ordered by tier.
Hey, just a quick correction on stability being useless on bows, it actually secretly affects how long the perfect draw window lasts which is important for Le Monarch because it’s perfect draw is incredibly short
Also, since you didn’t mention it, Tunnel Vision on Trespasser is reprocked whenever you get a kill because it counts as a true reload (a reload effect that procks Kill Clip style percs, example: marksman dodge) so it effectively makes Unrepentant bursts easier to hit.
@@carlosjosephgomez1495 yeah but I just don’t rate tunnel vision as a perk that’s why I rank it so low. Personal preference affected a couple guns on this list like trespasser
In my testing yes that stability increased the perfect draw window (it was in the script I just didn’t feel like explaining how the perfect draw coefficient was impacted by stability) slipped through the cracks
If it’s a secret then how did you find out about that? 🗿
@@lobes117 you can find this in the database. The handling buff is almost unprovable without frame by frame testing
“There are no bad catalysts”
Cerberus+1: “Allow me to introduce myself”
check out my newest video and then see what you think
I was thinking quicksilver storm, it's a direct damage downgrade if you're not planning on using strand or tangles, since kinetic weapons have an intrinsic damage buff over stasis and strand weapons.
@@potato1341 primary kinetic weapon even though it’s strand it’s damage still keeps up with its non strand version
@@paragon5186 the grenade launcher mode has identical damage between the strand and kinetic variants, the autorifle mode does more damage when using kinetic than strand (10% more, from 2223 to 2446 precision damage when testing on Europa patrol enemies)
actually people don't realise that the catalyst lowers the rpm but increases damage by almost 3x (of course at point blank range)
a note on trinity
without the catalyst, it requieres a precision kill with the arrows themseleves, which is extremely tedious given that it shoots 3 at a time. that just makes the catalyst a bigger of a glowup, cuz with it the loop becomes much more simple and the proc conditions on the lightning rod are way easier
Yes! Upon review I should have worded it better that the catalyst allows for any kills including the lighting strikes can trigger lightning rod. I was more focused on the perpetual motion nature of the catalyst.
A lot of people forget how much of a meme this weapon was before the catalyst. It was considered one of the worst exotics in the game. Now it's one of the best ad clear weapons in the game.
6:21 I like the way that the guardian slaps the gun to activate the catalyst
“No bad catalysts” is a bold statement imo and I honestly really respect that, the only catalyst I think is “bad” is Cerberus +1
it fixes the guns sole issue. its inverse damage falloff
@@paragon5186it feels like it actively makes it worse
@@Azal423 At worst it does nothing, just don't use the alternate firing mode. And don't tell me you accidentally activate it...
@@Marisadif accidentally activating it is a thing you need to worry about because it feels bad, it’s a bad caty
you can just not change the cerberus fire mode tho? it doesnt affect the default firing mode at all so you can completely ignore it. its neutral at worst
Hardlight would be pretty nasty if it could use elemental add-clear perks (incandescence, destabilize, volt shot) or disruption break (to lean into its utility when you've got tons of different elemental shields to pop).
Great video, needs more views.
I think a good balance would be to add dragonfly to it...bungo...do it!
I think it should get sheild disorent, the main drawback for the perk, and the thing that made it suck was that it only works on matching Shields, which works really well for hard light
Borealis, like hard light, used to function differently in regards to their element changes. Hard light used to have to be manually selected similarly to a barrel, if I remember correctly, and Borealis used to need to reload the full magazine and endure a full reload animation to change elements. This caused the catalyst to actually have a purpose back in the day, now it appears it does not apply to the element change animation speed at all.
true. you used to have to do a full mag reload but that was changed. was more useful back then the reload speed but its simply not now
my guy BREATHE BRO, fam isn't breathing enough in the damn video
no breathing, this video was long enough i had to cut some pauses and dialogue out otherwise it almost would have been an hour of nonstop talking
@@paragon5186and that would have been on 😊
It's so fucking funny to me that as I read this I hit a point in the video where he drew a pretty heavy breath
28:31 Monte Carlo's catalyst does a little bit more. By swapping to the glave mode and getting a kill you get The Monte Carlo method times 5. You can also swap guns and still keep glave mode active, so you can use your subclass melee still. So when you go from gunfight to gunfight, you can have times 5 active for a long time, meaning you get your melee back faster and have higher damage with the weapon.
had it in the script, dont know why i didnt include this
I just quickly wanna mention that the second thing that Ticuu's (however you spell it) catalyst does is that when you hit a target with a fully drawn shot that DOESN'T have Sacred Flame, it refreshes the timer for Causality Arrows
I didn’t mention the timer refresh but it’s a big bonus. I just don’t like ticuus catalyst, middle of the pack tbh that’s why I ranked it B tier
A thing I've noticed since cleaning up catalyst I've sat on for years is that year 1 catalyst feel like they just lock part of the gun away till you get an arbitrary amount of kills, which most of them end up being only like a +30 stat boost
year one catalyst syndrome at its finest
I don’t get the hate for Thunderlord, it’s a gun that can get you through damn near every piece of content in the game, also combine the catalyst with Actium War Rig and you never have to reload.
its not a bad weapon it just has the reputation of being annoying because people who dont understand much about end game dps strategies mistake thunder lords ability to shoot without stopping as being ideal dps. its a myth that youtubers perpetuated ever since it got its catalyst in season of the plunder
@@paragon5186tbh it’s one of the most consistent forms of dps for nezzy since his crack ass won’t stay still and usually has everyone missing at least one rocket. Also reduces the chances of killing yourself significantly since those plates are small and lfgs suck at communicating. Now I’m not saying it’s the best it’s just consistent which is nice
Thunderlord while not the best is one of the easiest and most consistent DPS options on some bosses like nezzerec or any boss tormenters, it’s a great starter weapon cuz of that, now if only they’d take thunderlord and make that the baseline for all MG boss damage and then buff up thunderlord to be right under rockets or GLS
Ngl this is the first im ever hearing if hate for the gun, like if ye see someone brought a thunderlord you arent gonna complain typically, yr gonna be like oki good enough that works. No need to be 100% optimal all the time when good enough will cut it 99% of the time
Haven't watched the video yet. Cerberus+1 catalyst better be at the bottom because it's the only catalyst I can think of that actively hurts the exotic's performance.
💀 you gonna be in for a surprise 💀
@@paragon5186 I’m happy you somehow find use out of it but ain’t no way it’s A tier. Why take ages to switch firing modes when I can simply move closer and have higher dps instead of trying to use a close/mid-range weapon as a mid/long range weapon
@@paragon5186 noticeable ≠ useful
@@thecaptain9496 Cerberus does less damage the closer are to the target in regular firing mode. Because it “fixes” this issue I rate the catalyst highly. Don’t get me wrong I still think Cerberus is unusable but it fixes the guns MAJOR flaw in that the range is inverse. Makes is much more usable but still, it’s not a good gun. That’s my rationale, I’m ranking catalysts today only not guns. I already made a weapon tier list, I might revisit it post final shape but I need to wait for more weapon tuning to drop! Thanks for watching the video!
@@thecaptain9496 precisely!
30:15
Also note to anyone who may see this, the osteo catalyst ALSO counts any poison damage kills towards giving ammo back. So you can melee enemies (INCLUDING with glaives) with Necrotics and get bullets back. Goes absolutely crazy on strand. Also will test this but I think that the unravel projectiles spread poison, and I KNOW that the poison activates Unraveled
Being able to apply a 15% debuff to any enemy you hit with Buried Bloodline has trivialized the horde mode Onslaught. It's been the main build I've used with Orpheus Rig, and Edge Transit- and I can safely say Buried Bloodline's caty is WAY better than what you credited it for.
Maybe a little bit, I didn’t have time to use it as much as I wanted it to, plus damage tweaking from special sidearms wasn’t live the season I made this so if I were to redo this I would rank it higher, I underestimated the strength of weaken and how easy It was to proc since I’m usually not using devour builds
I feel like hierarchy of needs catalyst massively boosts the weapon from its base state, cause the draw speed is much faster than that of archers tempo
I would argue there's at least one "bad" catalyst: Cerberus+1. The alt-fire mode is worse than the base exotic.
That’s the thing; every catalyst has a use EVEN if it’s not much, which is why I can’t call it bad, I still rate Cerberus catalyst highly since it is such a confusing gun it makes it easier to use
And to touch on the base fire mode, the gun is designed so “wackily” that it does more damage the further away you are. It’s just not efficient to even attempt to use the regular fire mode close up which is why the catalyst is so good in my opinion
@paragon5186 except the ttk is better just using normal fire as well as more reliable in pvp since the alternative fire has a damage falloff of around 6m. 1 meter longer than melee lunge distance. The reverse damage falloff on standard fire is so that you can do any damage outside of point blank since you will have less bullets on target.
As a titan main I am fuming that the Monte Carlo catalyst is in c tier
You put that stuff with wormgod or synthos and banner of war you can get like 800k+ dmg on a melee
Situational, gimmick build.
@@paragon5186 and that’s the best part it barely works half the time (this ranking is really accurate and for the love of god even with strand banner builds please just use quicksilver it’s so much better)
I haven’t tried it with one two punch but I think it’d be good since you might get the 200% unpowered melee boost as opposed to the 40% powered melee boost
Or it just doesn’t work
As a Sunbracers main, I think it was ranked too high.
Cerberus makes the gun worse….
3 month old comment but this is crazy, see it in the Crucible
A note about Revision Zero, with 4th times the charm, you can potentially get up to 8 sniper shots if you time it right, that plus vorpal weapon is huge boss dps for a solid primary.
My only issue with this is that other guns do this better. It’s good and synergies well yes, but this use case scenario only applies to a dozen bosses in the game most of whom are raid bosses that you should be using other weapons anyway. Outlaw has more over functionality, but I still keep a revision with fourth times in the vault if I want to mess around
Pretty sure they patched that interaction with fttc
they fixed this, the max is 6 shots since the fourth time's "counter" resets when you enter sniper mode
Classic Bungie, ruining fun
Nobody is using primaries for dps in the current meta. Also revision zeros dps falls off a cliff after you have shot your sniper bullets, touch of malice is 10x more fun and also shits all over revision zero for overall dps.
Cerbys catalyst actually makes the gun worse. The DPS goes down and it becomes worse in PVP
I like most of this list except on revision zero I think 4th times could be in B or even A as increasing the shots of the sniper from 4 to 6 can really help burst down some meaty targets in endgame, and makes it much better at being an emergency backup dps
Yeah that was my thought to however revision zeros best use case scenario isn’t hunters trance, it’s a workhouse yes but your wasting fourths time the charm as a perk on a select minority of enemies that could actually wits and that type of damage, there is like 2 dozen at best that you wouldn’t be better using anything else. Even at that those two extra hunters trance shots aren’t worth using the exotic on revision zero.
@@paragon5186 I disagree ONLY due to the most recent buffs against champions it can handily deal with em and still have shots to spare
29:37 I remember bungie said they are going to remake or add a catalyst to necrochasm (one for thrall), maybe it’s like another archer’s tempo on levi’s breath. Also about sweet business explosive rounds, it’s not a part of the catalyst, it’s a built-in function bungie added (I think season of the witch)
modified one for all coming soon(ish). evaluated based on current catalyst.
Well-thought out preface, thorough testing, footage of weapon being used, AND timestamps? You're spoiling us. Subbed!
saying outlaw is the best in revision zero is OUTRAGEOUS. Fourth times the charm makes revision zero into a beast of sustain damage allowing you to keep on collecting stacks to use your secondary fire, it also stacks with it making it one of the best champion bully weapons. super high A tier if not S, fundamentally tying into the exotic perk itself and improving massively on the gameplay of it
My problem with this statement is in my opinion using revision zero with the 4th time refit is a waste of its talents. The exotic slot is better spent on other weapons if damage is what you are looking for. Sure it’s funny to get 6 shots of hunters trance but it’s just a waste of time imo
Necrochasm is NOT an underwhelming gun, the catalyst as of now definitely is because as you mentioned for Delicate Tomb's catalyst being mid, Necrochasm already has good reload and that's exactly why they're replacing it with One for Thrall
As someone who used to no-life this game, minor recommendation, instead of giving a one overall ranking give it 2 separate rankings, because for example, crimson, in pve the catalyst does just about nothing, however in pvp it’s game changing and allows you to contest at wayyyy longer ranges. From what it looked like you only used pve to judge the use of catalysts but you have to keep in mind that pvp and pve sandboxes are different and each gun and their catalyst plays differently between the two sandboxes.
I wouldn’t say “way longer” in the current sandbox it’s effectively a 2 meter range increase before drop off occurs. Minimal, it’s still useful but it’s not much better. Crimson much more useful outside of crucible
@@paragon5186 personally I disagree on the “minimal” part, because with that 2 meter increase the drop off where it’s still viable is that much longer, in my experience 6 meters after drop off is where it stops being as viable, increasing that to 8 meters allows you to cover a lot more engagements. This is just my opinion though, so it’s not gospel
35:42 the catalyst, doesn’t actually provide the explosive bullet, I used it for a little bit back when it got the explosive bullet and I dont have the catalyst for it yet
Great video. I'll be using this to help prioritize the catalysts i need to finish up during this long drought. Thanks!
No problem
I used Fourth Times the Charm for Revision Zero, because it used to work with the sniper rounds it loaded giving you 6, potentially 8 if you hit a 2 burst, switch to sniper, hit 2 sniper rounds within the FTTC window, it procs and loads another 2 sniper rounds, so you have a full mag again, then you hit those 4, and it reloads 2 to the sniper rounds and you've doubled the number of sniper rounds, then it got buggy and a single round would reset it back to pulse rifle mode, I haven't used it since season 19 though.
Good news! The season 24 version of this video just came out
Have you actually used Wicked Implement on a Stasis build? Its amazing.... its a precision scout it gets headstone to spawn a crystal, you shoot the crystal to get a shard, shard loads 5, rinse and repeat. In my opinion it makes wicked implement one of the best scouts in the game. Not even including the fact that it can stun Overload and Unstoppable without any Season mods
33:09 On Revision Zero, Outlaw is not the only choice as FTTC gives an extra 2 Sniper bullets for landing all 4.
cerberus catalyst completely destroys the effectiveness of the gun. cerberus in its regular form excels at mid-range to smg-range fights, if 2 or more bullets hit. it flinches like hell, it has good CC capabilities. it also works great upclose and shreds adds, flinching them in the process. the catalyst is more than useless.
it provides no real advantage in either pve or pvp, doesn't change the dps number, only 1-mag damage, it destroys the flinch/stagger this weapon can cause, it tanks the range, it tanks the RoF and replaces it with mid ass pseudo-shotgun bullshittery. it's the only catalyst in the game that actually DETRIMENTS the weapon if you use it. the only advantage it gives is that you spend your mag longer. that's it. it belongs lower than F tier man.
i'm really sad that such a cool gun got such a shit catalyst
It’s all about the inverse range stat, close range damage testing the alt fire more clears regular fire mode, Cerberus isn’t a useful gun in any capacity but the catalyst fixes its biggest issue. Argue flinch being useful sure but be honest for a second, who is actually using Cerberus in any serious capacity?
@paragon5186
The reverse falloff isn't enough to offset the other 3 rounds hitting the target. You keep mentioning this point but honestly the "issue" there isn't relevant. It comes across as you not really using the weapon all that much and failing to understand it's strengths, and why the catalyst hits those strengths in a bad way.
@@pluto3194 watch any of my most recent cerberus videos.
I'm gonna stop you at Travelers. Surplus gives extra stats per ability charge, up to 3. The exotic perk gives extra stats up to 10. When you have all abilities and no Light stacks increases you stats to 95 Stability and 100 handling. At 2 stacks it still has max Handling and 85 Stability. While we can't really see how much the gathering Light Perk gives, just having 2 abilities charged for such good stats is insane and not to be overlooked.
For example when you consume your stacks you most likely gained back alot of energy, maybe enough to have abilities completely charged again. That's where surplus shines. Before it had a dilemma of either sacrificing your stats for Ability Energy, or the other way around. Now you can just consume your light stacks to still retain insane stats. Also Travelers has increased stats right of the gate now, not needing to get kills before to get better stats
The Perks actually very much work together to assure that you have no downtime in performance
In PvE it still wont do shit for you though, so probably still B tier
My recommendation is to slow down and enunciate a little more. I had a hard time understanding what you were saying at some points.
Also, make sure to always show us proof on what the changes are. Bad Juju getting a 1s boost to String of Curses is great, but not explaining the damage difference for Ace of Spades and then immediately moving on to Agers Sceptor made me feel rushed.
I would personally reconsider wicked implement, it's catalyst makes it ubsurdly good with stasis, even just on its own
I think you undersold the catalyst for hierarchy of needs. It actually cuts the draw speed in half as opposed to the 25% faster draw speed archers tempo gives. It prob doesnt feel as insane due to the abnormally high charge time of the bow (only ones higher are wishender and levi's breath). Although I've found that the catalyst along with the fact that the ring only needs a half-charged arrow to spawn the seeking projectiles I can spam out shots really quickly
i dont rate it very much. its just middle of the pack. good yes but not game breaking
Firm disagree on the Heir Apparent catalyst.
The shield strength boost makes you a durable monster, the reload on shield break helps you shoot your way out of situations where the shield didn’t help too much. Also, with some setup versus bosses that eat through that shield quickly, you can stand in a friendly warlock’s well and face tank the boss. The shield will begin building because you’re quickly regenerated to full, but then the next hit breaks the newly regenerating shield, reloading Heir Apparent.
Very useful in raids and nightfalls, especially since it also allows you to survive while holding a tough boss’s attention. Been a while since I’ve played D2, but it’s a strategy that not many knew about.
Everybody forgets necrochasm catalyst is getting one for Thr(all) added in TFS ToT
I don’t forget, just had to judge it based on what it currently is
Good ranking
Don't like the audio jump scares tho
Time stamp? I’ll try to fix it in the editor but I didn’t hear any before I uploaded it?
@@paragon518616:27 - 16:28
@@paragon5186 There is one during the Fourth Horseman segment @ 16:27. There is another at the start of Graviton Lance's segment @ 17:34.
@@Merdux I’ll get right on fixing those boss! Thank you for letting me know
Lol I thought I was tweakin when that picture of the wyvern came up and made that noise
"No bad catalysts" cerberus catalyst: am I a joke to you?
it fixes its biggest issue
@@paragon5186explain how you think it fixes anything. Its alt fire mode is worse…
@@nickjames841more damage and overall more stable.
@@thunderchief7256 no
@@nickjames841 I used it and I know for a fact it’s true. Why don’t you should results instead of following the word of a random streamer
Monte Carlos' catalyst isn't a 1 time use, since the melee actually gives 5x markov chain meaning you can reactivate it.
Yes
As well it’s a very good exotic for a banner titan
for jotuun catalyst, if you play on solar titan, it's a must since ignition kill drop sunspot, which deal a lot of damage, as well as create a safe space for you to stand in. it turn the gun from a grenade launcher to a rocket launcher that drop a "healing rift" on kill. Not to mention how good it pairs with other solar abilities. I agree with it being A tier on other class, but it deserve a S tier on titan
Wasn’t doing anything class specific though I can see how it would be much more useful on solar titan. Even at that 1 out of 15 subclasses wouldn’t be enough to shift, the S tier catalysts are the ones that are either mandatory for use or game changing on all classes and styles of play
Duality deserved its rank. Best shotgun in the whole game!
Very good gun
A lot of the newer ones are to enable running on different classes than the gun class. My guess is because final shape has a focus on combining classes
new catalysts clear the old ones for obvious reasons
Buried Bloodlines Catalyst is so good it goes so well with many void builds How is it B tier?
because all the catalyst does it allow for weaken to proc. every good part of the gun is outside of its catalyst and this tier list is for the catalysts alone
@@paragon5186weakening enemies is huge for Gyrfalcons hunter synergy also has great synergy for void subclasses
IMO you couldn't be more wrong about buried bloodline. Adding weaken to that thing makes it a beast. Especially in team play higher level stuff. But, you're entitled to your own opinion.
The stability boost from the sunshot catalyst is the only reason why I use the gun, the awful kickback on the base gun was so offputting on console that I avoided the gun for years. I just got sick of spending 80% of the time looking at the sky.
NO BAD CATALYSTS, HAVE YOU HEARD OF CERBERUS +1'S CATALYST!!!!!!
not bad, just misunderstood
@@paragon5186nah bro, this shit is laughably bad, you want a shotgun? Use a shotgun? This just isnt ever worth it outside of basic entry level content.
Came here to make sure Ager made it near the top and it did, so you get a like. The downside of using up super energy is not a downside if you hate your super, eg. the warlock stasis super. Overcharge mode almost equals Chaos Reach for damage done to bosses, and it's unbelievably good for melting crowds of yellow bars in Onslaught. Please try it folks!
Catalysts can make guns worse, cerb+1 alt fire mode is just worse
New video coming out in like 45 minutes explaining in more detail why this is the wrong way to think about Cerberus catalyst
Can we get a theoretical ranking on the upcoming Necro catalyst buff?
From the Season 23 Weapons Tuning Preview on 10/25:
"It will also have a new catalyst called One for Thrall, which grants a moderate period of increased damage, range, and aim assist after you damage three enemies in quick succession. Damaging three more enemies while the perk is active refreshes the timer.”
Theoretically this would put necrochasm into A-S tier I think. It’s very good for the gun but I would need to do some testing. Catalysts that do one REALLY good thing get into S tier but this sounds like it would be A tier considering it’s just modified one for all and outlaw
Necrochasm will be getting a buff to extend the duration of the poison damage-over-time effect it applies from the Cursed Thrall explosion. It will also have a new catalyst called One for Thrall, which grants a moderate period of increased damage, range, and aim assist after you damage three enemies in quick succession. Damaging three more enemies while the perk is active refreshes the timer.
@@Dovwah yeah I was just ranking the current catalyst being outlaw, not a huge fan, it helps but still still will be better eventually when the tuning happens
i think OfA is NUTTY and its getting range, AA, and can be refreshed. I'm betting S-tier but I accept the ruling of A tier.@@paragon5186
Kinda tragic that Levi’s Breathe and Sleeper have completely identical catalyst but Levi’s gets S-tier while poor ol’Sleeper gets A-tier
Deeper pockets sure are the same effect. But in practice the addition of a stronger version of Archers tempo allows Levi’s to be a top tier damage option. I’d say you should not even consider using Levi’s unless you have the catalyst that’s how strong the effect is.
Sleeper on the other hand. Deeper pockets more ammo - great - but accelerated coils decreases the guns damage, it’s encounter dependent on whether it’s good or bad but it’s not mandatory for the gun to function at a high level.
So yes technically speaking they have the same base effects, that being increased ammo and a faster rate of fire, leviathans breath does it in way where it takes the gun from F tier to S tier where as Sleeper catalyst barely budges the gun out of B tier to A tier.
Still an ok option just encounter dependent.
@@paragon5186 on the Destiny Data Compendium, it says that the charge time reduction given by the catalyst doesn’t affect the damage of sleeper
The catalyst makes the sweet business a lil sweeter I’m telling you
I know the sweet business is not a good weapon, there’s way better options and the catalyst isn’t the greatest, but using it with a proper build clears out ads, and leaves options to kill tougher enemies and bosses with other options if you got the mods correctly. Adding a good machine gun to the mix with actium war rig makes for a really fun build that isn’t too bad in higher level content
Bro I finished my tractor catty on escalation protocols to! Had to farm those ikelos weapons
I was so low light at the time it was the only thing I could help by using the physics to instakill and debuffing every enemy
Solid and informative video. Keep up the good work! 👍
Appreciate the compliment boss glad you enjoyed. Doing more/ better informative scripts after my next series of videos. Stay tuned for more and subscribe if you haven’t!
You've definitely earned a subscriber. However, I disagree with your placement of Sweet Business's catalyst. As an avid Sweetie Biz user I have to say that the catalyst is A-tier. With Sweez Buzz and Actium War Rig, the up time of the explosive rounds is a game changer. I already chewed through mobs before and now I just have to get close to them before spitting them out. Reloading and aiming is a thing of the past with the catalyst.
Changing the element of a weapon, when it is kinetic, is actually not a buff. Kinetic ammo does 15% more damage than non-kinetic ammo, so Travellers Chosen does LESS damage when you throw a nade and change its ammo-type. Same goes for Quicksilver Storm, but there you get other buffs.
Love this! thank you for the time and effort you put into this! Just a heads up though... you are missing the time stamp for Malfeasance. It is in the Lumina time stamp. I don't care, I just happen to notice because it is my favorite hand cannon. haha
Np glad you enjoyed!
I've been waiting for somebody to do this video for a minute now. I don't know why you're the first to think of it but thank you this was a good video
It’s because I’m the goat and I love this game more than any other. I still care enough to take deep dives into it
@@paragon5186goat ass response wtf
18:28 A little while ago, they changed the missile volley functionality so you don't have to fire the full volley at once. I believe it's now bursts of five. Better than original, but still not ideal.
I get the catalyst but by then I'm so sick of the gun I mess around for 3-4 minutes thinking, hmm, yeah that's a little better then vault it forever.
@@AdventureMonte pretty much that’s the case, 8 mandatory catalysts, 20 are less mandatory but still very good. And the rest just kinda float there doing nothing
@@paragon5186 I did Skyburner's and Polaris back-to-back. Somehow failed to remember Skyburner's is auto, and I'm a bull-headed purist who refuses to turn auto on full-time. I'd be shocked if I ever shoot Polaris again.
@@AdventureMonte Polaris lance catalyst is very good, I personally won’t use the gun ever again because of how much I used it last season for gm nightfalls
Lumina's Top tier. As a support warlock, i feel validated
It just makes the gun twice as good at doing it’s job. The math is simple few other catalysts grant a multiplier that strong
each kill with the bayonet gives you half of your melee charge, so two bayonet kills gives you a smoke bomb, thunderclap, needle, celestial fire or throwing hammer just to name the good melees
it's more than a c tier catalyst it's a b- at best
LMAO no there is one (1) bad catalyst. The one that provides the alt fire mode for Cerberus +1. Quite literally a catalyst that makes the gun worse.
I’m gonna speak to the one exception (now outdated) being the old cerberus +1 ccatalyst. Most of the opinions ive gathered about it from the people who actively use it are that it was a mistake to use, and I think because of that would actually lead to worse play patterns with the gun in PvP at least. Love my cerb and once i get used to the new catalyst i hope to love it more
If you haven’t already I posted a video with my first impressions on the new catalyst, literally my first crucible games of the season. Another fellow Cerberus enjoyer!
@@paragon5186 I was looking for one, but youtube doesn't seem to want to show me anything not from 3-4 years ago :sob: Will check out!
On revision zero 4th times the charm is better because it allows 6 sniper bullets and makes your gun have 1.5x bursts
The catalyst for ceberus makes it WORSE. Its so bad with the cata
cerberus catalyst fixes its damage range scalar issues
@@paragon5186its less effective with the catalyst as it cuts the range down way too much. It fixes one issue but gives it another issue to compensate. That why you see so many people that do run it run it without the cata. Thats why people who run it have been asking for a buff. Its unique yes, but not good. Its at best with the HARSH range falloff a D tier cata.
Saying that the Forerunner catalyst is giving you "free" grenade when it consumes 5 ammo to use. not to mention the grenade is very meh, has low radius and not so good damage.
I’ve changed my opinion since making this video, it’s kinda a dumb catalyst since it doesn’t really help
Verily appreciated :> I have began with D1 alpha and have long enjoyed Sunshot, though somehow do not have the catalyst yet ^^;; I am busier these days and just play casually without regards to the annoying shield type breaks - excepting when I secured Queensguard~
i really really love the Monte carlo catalyst with banner of war titan, just strong melee and healing forever
Good news! The season 24 version of this video just came out I rate Monte Carlo much higher now
I couldn’t tell if the Cerberus one was sarcasm or not😭
nope. it fixes the inverse damage falloff, every test indicates that its better close range than the primary fire despite shooting less bullets
>”using Eriana’s correctly”
>missed every headshot
>damage perk turns off
😂
YES!
Wow. I’ve had a master worked no time to explain for serveral years and noticed nothing, might be my favorite pulse again
It also helps it’s the strongest pulse rifle currenyly
@@paragon5186 I guess lol
I do wish that Thunderlord's catalyst at the very least increased the damage of the lightning strikes themselves, at least then the catalyst would do something other than allowing you to speedrun through your ammo reserves.
Might make it too good in that case. Currently it’s a Jack of all trades heavy weapon, but any modifier increasing its damage would break it
I think I might rank Hierarchy’s catalyst higher. I think you under played its impact. Also witherhoard has the best catalyst imo.
On paper it’s a good catalyst but hierarchy suffers from other issues most notably bad tracking and auto conversion to tracking arrows. It could be better but it doesn’t solve any of the bows core issues.
For me Witherhoard catalyst is top 3 but nothing can top acrius catalyst in terms of sheer “you cannot use this gun without its catalyst” scale. And it just so happens to make the gun one of the best damage options in the game.
@paragon5186 I disagree. Hierarchy is miserable to use without the catalyst because it is obnoxiously slow. It's significantly better with it. It nets you more uses of the tracking seekers. In my opinion, you *need* it to use the bow.
@@toolsheen136 the gameplay I used in the video was pre catalyst, post catalyst was used on a separate account when I compared side by side the increases to draw speed/damage were minimal, the tracking didn’t improve in any significant matter. Personal matter maybe? I don’t like the bow I feel that it’s not usable but there was nothing about the catalyst I used on the other account that made me run to my main to get done. Thus my ranking. I do appreciate your point of view and that you care enough to comment and debate the point.
@@paragon5186 Draw time goes from 756 to 200 and reload while not fully known appears to be about a 0.1 difference the dps also massively increases becoming the highest dps primary in the game even beating out Touch unless Touch's 50% perk is active but even then it's close. When it comes to the tracking arrows I'd say don't treat them like Wardcliff or Eyes where shooting anywhere will have effect, ALWAYS aim for your target as they seem to track the target closest to where your reticle it's kinda like the rocket sidearm and Buried Bloodline. The gun itself needs help but the catalyst is massive and it's the exact reason why it split the community on if it's good or bad since the bow itself is pretty meh to bad but the draw time bonus makes it insane while active.
@@paragon5186I have to chime in here, the draw time increase isn't just noticeable, it is huge. The difference in the RoF when have a guidance ring up with the catalyst over the base is very significant.
It really impacts the feel of firing it.
re: Black Talon
You just perfectly described how I feel about the Monte Carlo catalyst. It actively works against why I use Monte Carlo, I would have preferred an old school stat boost or time extension to Markov Chain method.
Now to find out what you think about Monte Carlo's catalyst.
Don't you stil need to activate a catalyst after pulling a weapon from collections, or is that dependent on what year the weapon is from?
💀 Me waiting for Graviton Lance cat to drop
I disagree on the vexcaliber part feedback refit allows you to keep shooting and thus keep youre shield up while repositioning and tanking a strong enemy
think about why vexcalibur is strong, in my point of view its the melee chaining, you dont need alot of energy to start the shield since it regens over time, getting quick bursts of energy and then being able to use the shield for melee chaining is why it strong. other playstyles involving shooting dont make alot of sense with this exotic
@paragon5186 I find vexcaliber strong because unlike other glaives where your health slowly drains while blocking (since you take some damage), vexcaliber gives you hp in the form of an over shield
I tend to also use this as a source of overshield for grenade regen on void titan. We just have different playstyles
What is funny is that wardcliff coil has extended mag, so it just has a reload nerf 😂
Did you forget cryosthesia 77k?
I don’t think did
@@paragon5186you did forget to add it to the list
Some of these takes are criminal
Yes! Which ones do you think are criminal
Great vid. You unlock ostea striga catalyst by leveling it to 10. Then reshaping it and buying it. Any thoughts where it stands?
its good!
Wouldn’t you want grave robber on vex bc it’s a melee spam weapon?
the burst of energy is more useful because of the shielding issues it has. the internal ammo means almost nothing when reloading is free
Revision Zero with Outlaw is craaazy. If you're gonna use it for PvE, the only catty you should ever even consider is 4TTC, because it can give you an extra 2 Hunter's Trace rounds, completely free (also makes the magazine last significantly longer because a single 4-burst shot is enough to get the perk to proc). In PvP, I guess Outlaw is fine, but I don't really think there's any particular reason to use it over any other pulse(unless you're like me and use it obsessively)
This may be the single best Destiny 2 video on youtube
it certainly is ONE of them thats for sure
So you got Cerberus +1 wrong. Only the center round gains damage the further away you are, every other shot scales down. With that being said, you do far more damage the closer you are to a target, as the damage from the other barrels exceed the damage of the individual barrel. The catalyst just makes it a shotgun, which people assume that's how you're supposed to use it (you're not).
4:19 there is also the hidden interation the catalyst gives that isnt very useful where it causes a cursed thrall explosion after an insanely high amount of kills without dying, if only it did that more often
33:05 4th times the charm is far better on revision zero, since it works on the sniper alt fire, and you can pair it with vorpal. So not only is yr sniper rounds doin 20% more you get two more if you land yr crits. Miss when it could get 8 shots in a row. Outlaw is kinda a wasted pick
Excellent job on this!
What are you on with Hardlight? Hardlight was useless without the catalyst back in the day because it jumped all over the place because of how bad the recoil was.
Back in the day is not now.
@@paragon5186 you’re also undercutting the value of stability and how it doesn’t just make recoil control easier but adds flinch resistance which makes staying on target even easier to manage while under fire.
@@dracaevancy5383 input dependent tbh, I play on M&K and have 7 years of experience dealing with it so I do not notice any major changes, but like I said I also plugged in my controller and on hard light specifically it is easy to control in any circumstance
Recoil wasn't Hardlight's problem back in the day, it was the ridiculous screen shake. Once that was taken away the usability of the weapon improved dramatically, and the recoil direction had nothing to do with it..
Montes catalyst is great on Titan so it’s not bad by any means necessary
izanagi catalyst not being in s is a crime
I think it’s because it only makes it better in one category. It’s triple s tier in that category but it doesn’t help it do anything else.
This is an amazing video, Thank You!
Some of the S Tier catys like Gjally and Eriana's always felt cheap because it seems Bungie made the weapon, then nerfed it by taking away key perks and abilities and putting them into the caty. They were always designed to be used with the caty, which is why they're released alongside each other, and the base version is just a step in the quest towards obtaining it, similar to Rose and Husk of the Pit during those exotic quests, or more relevant, Legend of Acrius's first form with 1 in the mag during it's original quest. I like catys that are released much later for already finished exotics that add additional function that wasn't originally planned, or make them much better, like Trinity Ghoul or even Thorn.
Considering even if you split the player base evenly majority of the players are going to be on the two consoles versus the PC so if you're going to be ranking catalysts you should be ranking them on a console because that stability trust me it really f****** matters
i have a controller plugged into my computer at all times, i played destiny for 5 years on controller before switching, i did all my testing where it matters with both M&K and controller, and in the case of hard light it doesnt matter
One of my favorite builds that I run is witherhoard with the catalyst. Gnawing hunger with demolitionist and auto loading, with bad omens with cluster and auto loading. No reloading for me. Pair it with verity’s brow on a void warlock and I’m triggering volatile all the time and devour and unlimited grenades.
Witherhoard plus gnawing hunger was my load for 14 months straight during beyond light and witch queen
yo right at 16:28-16:29 scared the hell out of me
Sorry man I haven’t been able to fix it
You're probably not gonna see this, but a part of the Horseman catalyst stats got cut off.
I see all my comments! Unfortunate I had to make some edits post upload and lost a couple seconds of audio, most of it is superficial but that’s one where it’s not
@@paragon5186 Well dang, that was fast.
@@KSword007 I get -enough- comments to keep me talking but not enough where I run out of people to reply to!
@@paragon5186 Alright, then how about this -
Steelfeather Repeater I've kept around from New Light.
Rolled with Extended Barrel, Light Mag, Slideways and Vorpal.
Good roll? Cause I am not deleting it anytime soon.
@@KSword007 steel feather is one of those “copium” guns that I feel people kept because it was unique, it’s cool that it’s coming back and we can infuse it again. But it won’t be particularly good because of all the power creep. Only exception I feel will be the old black armory guns which are fundamentally unique and still have nothing that replaces them to this day
New to your channel. Interesting content, couple of suggestions to make it easier to follow, title of gun on the screen would be helpful, and it would be nice to see it ordered by tier.
Trinity Ghoul will always be my favorite catalyst 😊
one of the strongest