It's been a while folks! This time a new video that fist, digs Elden Ring original starting location, then restores Melina cutscene there, and shows you two alternate audio versions! Bonus track... a hidden path to Chapel of Anticipation. I hope you enjoy the video and subscribe if you liked it!
That last line of cut dialogue "for that is their curse" must have been a nod to Prince Lothric from DS3 because Prince Lothric literally says to his brother, "for that is our curse".
Possibly interesting question: There is hole above where you spawn in inside the Cave where Torrent and Melina smell you for the first time, if you go above ground the hole is by the area with bats, some Farum Azula pieces and the crucified that scream at night not too far from the first dragon (who's name escapes me)... you can't fall down the hole you just die but its supposedly aligns with where you now spawn in... Was the hole there already in the network-test or whatever oldest build you are looking at? (or was that hole created after they changed where the player would spawn inn after the Chapel of anticipation?) (PS: I'm not sure where I learned of this Tarnished' disposal hole so I might be explaining info from one of your videos back to you right now, and if I am I can only apologize. ) ((If the route we now take is still from the Chapel or Anticipation -> Into the sea -> washed up on that same beach -> and down that hole to the cave we now start at... are there any hints about who picked us up on the beach to drop us down the hole? The bats maybe?))
Just wanted to thank you for what you're doing. As someone who likes to delv into coding I'm super impressed by what you do. With all the major content creators that shout you out constantly you deserve more subs. It should piss me off but I had this epiphany that you are basically the Jimi Hendrix of Fromsoft TH-cam content creators. The "musician's musician." Thanks for all you do SD!
If we're talking in lore, yes. Purely gameplay wise, though, the retail version hits harder. Opening a heavy door that reveals the breathtaking view of Limgrave under the golden Erdtree is timeless
2 things: 100% the first thing I would think, if this was the real start point, is that they ripped off shadow of the colossus. The other thing i would guess in testing is that they found it took too long for the player to naturally make their way into the cavern so they just moved it there, so that the choice to explore or do the tutorial was immediate
I might be misrememberibg, but in Shadow of the Colossus, doesnt the game start with wander already on the horse before crossing the long bridge?@@PoniesNSunshine
But starting at the open world beach wouldn't have given the player the "oblivion out of sewer moment" you get when you open the door to limgrave. I believe that was what they were going for
thanks botw , edit , wait , if you go to the tutorial area anyways from the beach , they could have made a better path to follow , and the "oblivion out of sewer moment" would have worked even better cause we literally start from a washed up beach and then get the great green grand vista . maybe that's why there was an item there for the player to follow , idk .
@@Erox006the problem Is that the beach Is an open area while the cave Is narrow and straightforward. You as developer can't know if the player Will Always follow the intended Path till the entrance of the cave or if they Will choose to go around the entire area. (To be sure of that you are forced to make that intended Path as the only viable choice of navigation in an artificial and very Blunt way...)
There's a cave entrance that leads from the beach into the starting cave. And you can see something has dragged you and other bodies into it. Also, Torrent and Melina are both spirits. They can appear anywhere.
Also the sound design of the cutscene makes no sense for it to be outside with the dripping water and the echo coming from torrents walking and sniffing. Also, from has always preferred big entrances. Every game they’ve made started in an enclosed area for you to walk out and see the beauty of the world. Furthermore, they do it afterwards a lot too, like multiple times in DS3, like opening the door to lothric or getting to the ringed city, DS1 with Anor Londo, or even ER with your entrance to Elphael and Leyndell. I don’t for one second believe they would have you start in cloudy weather on a beach and leave out a big reveal of the erdtree as a whole.
Oh ofcourse and there's always influence derived from older games. One only has to look at the Moonlight Greatsword as a long standing example.@@DreadGB
Plus the line would be contradicted by the majority of named Tarnished NPCs in the game not seeking the Elden Ring, having either abandoned their quest or having no apparent interest to begin with.
"Somehow Torrent and Melina managed to get there...". The mount as well as the fire lady are disembodied beings. For them, this is not a problem. I'm guessing here. Melina is nocliping all day.
It's also worth noting that the painting/promotional art of Godfrey and Serrosh depicts him on a shore, heavily suggesting it is depicting his arrival to the lands between. It's kind of hard to understand the magical logistics of the arrival of the Tarinshed in the current game, like they just randomly "puff" themselves in the lands between after dying? With this cut content, along with the cut Godfrey speech, it now seems clear that the whole batch of Tarnished, including Godfrey, would have arrived by boats and ships in the previous version of the game, a much more straight-forward and least mystical answer than the one shown in the intro cinematic.
in one hand i get why they choose to do it as the game is now, but imagine the possibility of we talking to "Hoarah Loux" first and not knowing who he is, and then proceed to fight him as the second to last boss and introduce himself as Godfrey. that would be amazing
@@ilhamadigunawan5264yeah I feel like any sort of boost in meeting characters/coming to know them throughout the game would’ve made it all a bit cooler. Like how you find out maliketh is the beast clergyman with the different dialogue.
Impossible, as his axe in the painting is already broken, and we know the axe was broken during the long march when he left the lands between after becoming tarnished
@@Frank-kq4te Exactly, his axe would be already broken upon his arrival. People got mixed up in the beginning and called it a plothole because they thought the painting was from he in the badlands, something that was not as easily fitted in the timeline (someone making him a portrait a mean, not that it ever was actually), but if you look closely at the background, and notably the feet/bottom part of it, you can see a close resemblance to the shores of Limgrave, just as the old spawn point shown in the video or the weeping peninsula
@@ilhamadigunawan5264 Yeah, something akin to that would have made the bossfight a lot more meaningful, instead of being a test of who is actually paying attention, with his dual identity still being a revelation but with the feeling of closeness that this was your leader in the past, a dynamic only really similar to Sekiro and Owl, but with you being a common soldier or warrior. Conceptually, I like a lot more the current death part of the prophecy rather than we just arriving on boats, mostly because I feel that the art of Hoarah Loux hanged and gutted is awesome and extremely evocative, to the level of Rykard being eaten and Mohg kidnapping Miquella. My ideal version would be of the game starting with a cutscene of all the Tarnished executed or dead in a field, with our Tarnished among them, and then the camera showing Godfrey/Hoarah Loux prominently crucified and impailed in a tree, with either someone talking or him to give just enough context but not very much, ending with a panoramic shot of the Badlands and a multitud of corpses.
The fact that Torrent is the one looking for you especifically instead of Melina may be a sign of Miquella's influence in your journey. Not only that but by gifting you the spirit bell too
The point is that we were likely meant to arrive alongside the other tarnished by boat from the Badlands, along with Godfrey. However, we ended up shipwrecked, which explains why we can see the wrecked boat out at sea and why there are numerous references to the tarnished arriving by boat. My little conspiracy theory is that the fake Godfrey battle before Morgott is actually the tutorial Godfrey boss that they opted to remove, along with the boat introduction. I wonder what the reason for the shipwrecking was supposed to be, though.
Have thought a lot about something something related (before the DLC) from what I've seen there are only shipwrecks in the game (except for the tibia mariner's but I'll excuse that with them kind of being ghosts or something), you do however see a lot of boats big and small on the map as if to indicate boats were used a lot or people escaped to sea. ie. to me it looks like there is something (possible out at sea) wrecking any boat that tries to leave the mainland. This would also IMO align with why the death-blight-infection seems to turn gods into Koi-Squid-Chimera-monsters.
When I first played the game at launch I spotted a destroyed ship from Radhan's arena and I wondered if something could take me there since it looked so close. Of course it never happened lol. The sea it's something that always made everyone that's into the lore of the Souls games very curious
@@jim0_o I do recall hearing that if you look at into the ocean near Liurnia's tower, you could see what looks to be roots or brambles coming out of the water, just south of the tree. Considering Godwyn and everything associated with death have strong connections to the ocean, it wouldn't surprise me if deathblight-infested monsters plagued the coasts, making safe entry into and out of the Lands Between virtually impossible. Would explain why there's not a single dock in the game; there's no chance of escape.
Even if we are killed and don't fall into the water, it makes sense that we are find washed ashore as the grafted scion much like Godrick doesn't find us ''fit even to graft'' and tossed us into the ocean rather than take us
iirc if you die the cutscene happens almost immediately without a proper death for the player. So it's just as easy to headcanon that the scion knocked you off the ledge in the struggle.
You know, there's a logical inconsistency in the dialogue as well. The Melina we encounter mentions that she has lost her memories and needs to return to Leyndell to recover them and uncover her mother's plan. Queen Marika intended to exploit Melina as kindling to burn the Erdtree. This is why Melina approaches us after we are spurned by the thorns of the Erdtree. She knows our objectives coincide since we, tarnished, don't hold allegiance to the Golden Order or the Erdtree; we're indifferent to its destruction, unlike the Golden Order zealots or Morgott, for example. That's why she remarks, "One of his kind is sure to seek the Elden Ring, even if it violates the Golden Order." The issue arises because the version of Melina we encounter wouldn't be concerned about this point since she has lost her memories. So either she's deceiving us for half of our journey, or what I personally suspect is happening: she was initially intended to approach us from the start with the notion that we would ultimately burn the Erdtree. However, during development, her storyline was altered, resulting in a cutscene that contains an error.
I see where you’re coming from however her suggesting that the player (potentially) have to burn the Erdtree wouldn’t really be a contradiction to her memory cuz she doesn’t remember HER purpose. She could’ve still known the potential of having the Erdtree burned but not truly understand her role in Marika’s skeem. “Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless. There is something for which I must apologize. I've acted the finger maiden yet I can offer no guidance, I am no maiden. My purpose was long ago lost...” Her searching her purpose “My utmost thanks. For bringing me to the base of the Erdtree. Here, I can govern my own movement. And thus, the accord is fullfiled. I shall depart to ascertain the purpose I was given…...” And her remembering her role “Hello again, old friend. Allow me a moment to converse with you. You were unable to enter the Erdtree, no? Prevented by the mantle of barbs. The thorns are impenetrable. A husk of the Erdtree's being; that spurns all that exists without. The only way to stand before the Elden Ring...and become the Elden Lord...is to pass the thorns. My purpose serves to aid in that very act. So I'd like you to undertake a new journey, with me. To the flame of ruin, far above the clouds, upon the snow mountaintops of the giants. Then I can set the Erdtree aflame. And guide you. Down the path to becoming Elden Lord.” It’s convenient but her memory loss largely is more about her purpose specifically not the whole plan in itself.
That's no inconsistency, the tarnished seeking the Elden Ring is basically just common knowledge in the Lands Between, it's been set to happen for a long time.
I think there's deliberately some ambiguity about whether she really forgot her purpose, or whether she believed herself to have a purpose that she still remembers, but that purpose doesn't make any sense in light of changing events and so it was "lost" and she's effectively trying to go ask "What am I supposed to do now?"
The cave audio on the beach is kinda eerie. I know it's probably because they never went so far as to record the audio with waves instead of drips and echoes. But it's like a storm just passed but our consciousness is cloudy and our ears are waterlogged. The beach makes so much more sense than the cave though! The chapel of anticipation is on the coast across from Stormveil, I always assumed that we were supposed to just pretend the current carried us to the cave, but it never made sense to me that we would get dragged through a waterway into the cave's stream when there doesn't seem to be any current running into the cave from the oceanside.
Such a strange design choice. Having the player awaken in the stranded graveyard doesn’t seem to add anything, but makes the player confused about how you ended up in a cave after falling in the sea (later you see that at high tide you could wash into the cave, but this isn’t immediately apparent). I see no downside to starting the player on the beach as the only exit without Torrent is the same way you enter Limgrave in the retail version.
Unless I’m mistaken if you start on that beach you can just follow the coastline north and there is eventually a slope you can normally traverse between the beach and Limgrave proper. Most souls start you with you arriving under curious circumstances so I don’t find it out of place, and you do ultimately find out out how you ended up in the cave which adds a little ahah! moment of discovery
I can think of 2 reasons why they did this: -to railroad the player past the tutorial area, something which would be hard to do if you awaken in the open world -to have that first grandiose reveal of limgrave when you open the doors to the first step, with your eyes immediatly drawn to the erdtree
@@bertvanbeterbed9702 But you don't awaken in the open world. You awaken on a secluded beach and the only way out without Torrent is through the retail cave. So you still need to go past the tutorial area, you still get that first grandiose reveal.
This seems to imply that Melina and Torrent were sent to look for a specific tarnished, and that Torrent was the one who knew how to recognize the correct one. Theory crafting a little bit. Miquella has connections to Torrent. My crazy theory is that Miquella sent Torrent to Melina from the realm they were, and Torrent brought a message to Melina telling her to aid the tarnished that Torrent's gonna point to. The initial spawn is in a very specific crypt, meaning that the player isn't just some random tarnished, but a tarnished that has some history.
This actually makes a lot more sense than the final game. I honestly wanna play a full build of this cut content version of ER. It seems super cool and has a lot more DS vibes.
The Chapel Of Anticipation is just that; a chapel made in anticipation of your arrival. I believe it being a magical arrival point is the point; it exists to recieve Tarnished who have crossed the fog.
Hey, that was amazing work. I would love to get in touch with you guys... I have so many more questions from other Chinese stuff I've found in the game. If you have access to twitter my DMs are open
@@SekiroDubi Sure. But my twitter is unavailable now. Actually, I do recall that we are both in a elden ring discord server. I can contact you via discord.
Somehow I never noticed the Chapel of Anticipation could be seen from that back porch of Stormveil Castle, I’ve always just ran by on my way to open that door back to the grace. My own headcannon for how the Tarnished ended up inside the Stranded Graveyard is that enemy on the beach (Onyx lord?) found our body and used the Stranded Graveyard as a dumping ground, like a “Get off my beach”
At the start area we see a small erdtree but it has no seeds under it. But when we first wake up we get our flasks at that place. I think melina is the one who takes us there for shelter and makes the flasks for us using the seeds under that tree to treat us after getting shredded by the scion.
Because it wouldn't have delivered the same results. The end result is way more impactful, for the simple fact that after waking up under a cave. You find yourself in this beautiful landscape after opening the doors. Starting from the beach would of taken that feeling away.
very fair point! It's sort of reminiscent of breath of the wild in that respect. The contrast of tight confined dark space followed by wide open beauty is what made the opening so memorable. @@parkout95
Without Torrent, you can’t leave the beach area where the removed cutscene takes place without going through the Stranded Graveyard anyway, and the sheer cliffs block your view of the beautiful open landscape. Had they stuck with their original intent, they would’ve still had their “wow, look at how great our open world looks” moment after opening a door, it just would’ve circumvented the fridge logic of the Tarnished teleporting from a plateau to an underground cavern half a mile away.
@@parkout95A grim, foggy beach with a huge cliff side obscuring your view of anything but the ocean behind you that leads directly into that cave anyway wouldn’t give the same experience?
Interesting that the player originally started the game in a place that makes sense, but they chose to change it to something that makes the player guess, "How did I even get here?" I love that idea that in the current version of the game, you end up in the Stranded Graveyard by being dropped down the "Limgrave Hole" by The First Step. Invaders have been using that hole to trick bloodthirsty gank squads since the game came out. When they're chasing you, you just run and jump over that hole. SO many people just drop down or don't jump far enough because they don't realize a deep hole is underneath them until it's too late. Geographically, it makes perfect sense that the hole would lead down to the Stranded Graveyard.
I think putting us in that cave is to make a strong impression on new players. Pretty damn sure every one of us was in awe when we stepped out into Limgrave for the first time. Wouldn't be the same if we woke up on the shores since scenery didn't look as amazing
That would’ve still happened. You start washed up on a dingy beach with heavy fog, find the cave entrance, go through the “stranded graveyard”, take the elevator up and open the same door to the clear fields of Limgrave. Could’ve done without the weird chapel spawn too. But honestly there’s way too much that would’ve been better left out of Elden Ring.
This confirms what I've been suspecting since you showed Godfrey's cut dialogue. Which suggests that we wouldn't even start from the Chapel of Anticipation but rather fight our impossible-to-win classic FromSoft boss in a small cut off map in the badlands, get revived by grace, take a boat/ship to return to the lands between, get caught up in a storm and wash up at this shore.
Very interesting! I think story-wise this place makes a lot more sense for our tarnished to spawn at, but given that the actual Stranded Graveyard we have now is where they made the tutorial system, I think they chose to focus more on the gameplay and straightforwardness of finding the tutorial area, as spawning here could cause players to miss it! But this does also more or less confirm the theory that tarnished were not native to the lands between either, and came from a different area with godfrey after he was exiled! This area could potentially be the "Land of Shadows" and theres quite a lot of evidence to support this that I cant give access to here.
I mean, is not really a mystery. Godfrey with all the original Tarnished were forced to abandone TLB through boat crossing the sea. Rusted Anchor; "While the Tarnished left the Lands Between with their Lord, one boat alone was said to have been left behind." Godfrey in particular ended up in the Badlands but we know other Tarnished ended up in different lands like the Lands of Reeds and Eochaid. The point of all this places is that they lie outside TLB, beyond the sea of fog, same sea that some tarnished were forced to cross through their own means after being revived by Marika to come back to TLB. Roderika's Dialogue; "Everyone's...been grafted. Everyone who came with me. They crossed the sea for me. They fought, for me. Heh... Only to have their arms taken. Their legs taken. Even their heads...taken. Taken and stuck to the spider. Did you know? If you're grafted by the spider, you become a chrysalid. It's quite the lark, when you think about it." It's unlikely that Lands of Shadow are the Badlands mainly because they're, well, named The Lands of Shadow as in a proper name unlike the badlands that are more just a descriptor. The Lands of Shadow are also in TLB just hidden by somekind of spell or artifact (probably thanks to Marika) and cannot be access by just taking a boat to them since Miquella had to "reliquinshed" everything to enter there (wich I guess the path he created is what lets us enter using his body) and we had to follow through his steps to get there (Miyazaki Interview). If one could just get there with a boat or if people were just consistently getting out of there (wich would be the implication if we assumed the Tarnished with Godfrey are coming from there) then really the entire situation with Miquella wouldn't make much sense.
I think I like this start more than the Retail game. As other comments have pointed out, I think the change from this to what we have in retail is related to emphasizing the opening of the grate to Limgrave being all the more impressive. In both versions of the opening, our character truly "wakes" in the Chapel of Anticipation and either loses to the Grafted Scion or beats it and the result is the same. It goes directly into the Melina Cutscene and we go from there. I like waking up on the beach and slowly making our way up to Limgrave through the graveyard more because of the break in the narrative that's implied when we are already inside the Stranded Graveyard with Melina behind a closed door like you said in the video. Given the fact that you can already see the Erdtree/Limgrave/Castle Stormveil from the Chapel of Anticipation immediately after starting a New game; I don't think there is that much lost/gained by having the player start on the beach as opposed to inside the graveyard. Starting in the Graveyard has the benefit of surprising the player when they open the grate to reach Limgrave showing them the gigantic world they have access to now. Starting the player in the Beach would feel similar to the start of DS3 before Gundyr where you just explore a small area and face weak enemies to learn controls. You can still have the same surprise opening the grate to Limgrave following this, but I can understand changing it because starting the player on the beach sort of feels as if the game has already opened up even though it hasn't. I like the opening on the beach A LOT more than the base game, and I think it could have benefitted if we started there all along. The only thing I can think of as a problem is potentially having to block the player in with landscapes that lead them to the Stranded Graveyard so they don't have access to the rest of the beach until progressing.
Wasn't there another cut content where we see Melina taking Torrent whistle ring off her finger and placing it on the Tarnished finger? I think that was ELDEN RING - Official Gameplay Reveal trailer.
Since the game came out that I've been saying the game should have started in this beach. If they really wanted a boss to kill you, they could've just used the Onyx Lord on the beach as your first combat. If you kill him, you get a reward and proceed into the cave. If you die, he throws you into the cave. Either way you'd end on the stranded graveyard and you could come back later for revenge. The way it goes in the final version of the game is so complicated and needlessly confusing lore-wise.
Very interesting, thank you! I imagine the issue might have been players missing stranded graveyard entirely, and the Breath of the Wild reveal moment at the end, which they probably cared a lot about
yeah the cave itself is not quite well telegraphed from the beach (which also was probably the point in the first place, so players are expected to look at every corner for pathways). I think the final intro is a bit less elegant, but ticks all the right boxes.
Some people here in the comment section are unsure how the tarnished arrived in the Lands Between so I'll try to theorize on this. Since the whole "tarnished arrives by boat" thing was scrapped, I believe we are teleported by our Finger Maidens, I presume ours did this during her last breath as well. Now, there's a problem to that because Godfrey doesn't have a maiden, so either he's an exception or the guidance of grace itself is able to teleport us, to which we would be welcomed by our Finger Maiden.
Here's a thought - if the Land of Shadow is shrouded and "hidden" away physically from the Lands Between, could it be that we were in the Land of Shadow and the "across the fog, to the Lands Between" is as literal as it sounds? That we, the PC Tarnished, were tasked someone like Miquella to cross that fog from the Land of Shadow into the Lands Between to become Elden Lord? It could also explain what that big massive cloud is in the middle of the map?
I've been thinking about making the game start at that very beach if I ever make an overhaul, glad to see I intuited something that was actually planned
05:40 that kinda tracks, because originally tarnished was to be one of Godfrey's warriors who he sended up ahead to prepare the way for him. Eventually plot would've progressed where as instead of faciltating Godfrey's return, player tarnished would start set themselves as Godfrey's rival. They later changed it so that tarnished would be more of a blank slate as "no renown" and that Godfrey's return would be general surprise.
So Marika cursed the tarnished to seek the elden ring. Like she curse Hewg to smith a godslayong weapon and cursed the fire giant to guard the flame of ruin...
This video has only now raised the question: if Melina can only manifest at Sites of Grace or at the foot of/inside the Erdtree, how the heck does she and Torrent find us at the beginning of the game!?
This is cool stuff! I hadn't stopped to wonder before how our tarnished wound up in the Stranded Graveyard, and how Melina wound up there riding Torrent!
"Is this her, Torrent?" Sounds like something they could have used for NG+. Like, "Is this the one that started again after completing the game? Cursed to go after the Elden Ring again."
always felt like that beach even with the gravity guy felt like it was designed as a point for you to travel from rather than look back around and discover. Too distinct.
“For that is their curse.” Is way more fitting given that the Tarnished seeking the throne is supposed to be rigged to fail by Radagon, this “curse” being the fact that most Tarnished are destined to fail in their attempt to seek the throne.
Someone been sleeping under a rock this was confirmed by developers years ago, as they didn't want players to skip the tutorial section and get lost on where to go.
This makes so much more sense in every way... -Instead of warping the player twice before the game even begins, you just wash ashore. Far cleaner start, and gets bonus points in hindsight for being related to the way the tarnished left TLB in the first place. -You don't (or barely) get to see the erdtree before the Breath Of The Wild Moment. -You already get pulverised by a hopeless bossfight at the start (the tree sentinel), there was no need for it to happen twice with the scion. -The chapel of anticipation has the stormveil aesthetic, and a grafting-related miniboss, so it makes sense for the entrance to be in stormveil. This channel is kinda depressing honestly. Seeing this game before it was gutted by nonsensical editing makes me bitter at the one we got.
"Oh, dear Brother... I'm on my way. My brother, unyielding sword of Lothric's Prince.Rise if you would.for that is our curse.” Big DS3 vibes from that cutscene.
Honestly it still could have worked. Since the only way out of there is back through that cave. It's not like you'd have torrent to get out from the jump springs yet. Unless there's something there I'm forgetting.
Very cool. Especially the Stormveil warp. It always drove me crazy that the chapel was right there on the map, but with no apparent connection. It also explains the Grafted Scion.
There was a Bloodborne lore channel called Charred Thermos, he theorized that Yharnam was inspired in old Edinburgh. Now that the name pops up again it sounds like a confirmation to me. Amazing work as always!
You question it being odd how Melina got into the cave. Yet the entire time she appears out of thin air at sites of grace. But as for the rest, definitely makes more sense of a connection
I believe they cut this out because it would have been too obvious it is the same starting point in Eternal Ring and thus the same island from that game. Eternal Ring is another FromSoft title.
Oh god, THANK YOU.I knew in my heart it was dumb as shit the start of the game (even more with the fade to black screen after getting killed by the scion). I love the game but hate so much all the cut content they did, and the shadow it left behind is so obvious you cant ignore it. This, which was hinted everywhere that the tarnished will come back from far away by boat (just as they left the lands between), the entire Kale quest, whatever with godfrey and loux...the game feels so unpolish.
While this is cool, I think the starting point we got is better for a good number of reasons. 1) It still makes sense if you consider tides. We could have just as easily washed up inside the cave during high tide. 2) The location we got focuses the player properly. It is very easy to get overwhelmed in a huge game world especially if the basics are not covered yet. So starting in Chapel of Anticipation and then Stranded Graveyard - two of the smallest hostile areas in game, helps. 3) The setup to the opening shot of Limgrave is much more impactful and beautiful since we start out in the cave first. 4) Melina's line saying that we are "cursed" does not make too much sense either. Unlike in Dark Souls, in Elden Ring, Tarnished can lose their grace and therefore their revival ability. And we are one of the few Tarnished that can still see Guidance from Grace. Also, we are not bound to any one plan unlike in Dark Souls with linking the fire or going mad. We have a pretty good amount of freedom as long as we kill some of the Demigods. We also don't lose our humanity or sanity on death unlike in Dark Souls. We literally have free reign to reshape the Lands Between as we see fit. Even going as far as to either completely destroy everything with Frenzy or completely removing the Elden Ring with Ranni.
Points 2 and 3 are irrelevant as that specific beach leads only to the stranded graveyard. There’s no other areas to go to from there, so the limgrave reveal would still be there.
Wow this makes way more sense and I would’ve preferred if this made it into the final cut. Having the player actually traverse from the beach to the stranded graveyard helps connect the dots for how we got there after the grafted scion fight. While I understand wanting to make to opening gate to Limgrave the big open world moment, that still could’ve been accomplished by having the beach be very hazy due to the player character being very delirious after falling into the sea from the church of anticipation above.
Thank you for this nice information. I think “Torrent” can therefore refer to the waterfall from which we fall, as well as to the ability of the mount to overcome high obstacles.
The starting cutscene always made sense to me after I entered the Stranded Graveyard by the cave. The tarnished feel in the ocean and ended up in that beach and Melina dragged him into the starting point as a safety measure
I'm glad they changed it. Even if doesn't make sense and people try to explain how it makes sense. It just feels better with the retail starting location.
Something making sense doesn’t necessarily mean it has the most impact. Players waking up in the cave and then opening up the doors into limgrave has way more impact.
Makes sense. Essentially you would fall off the cliff and end up at the beach. And that beach only has 1 way out if you don't have Torrent. And that's through the cave you start in after the Chapel
I always wondered why we appeared on that cave for no reason at all. Now it makes so much more sense. My guess is that they initially wanted to make the cutscene at the beach, and then have the player organically wander into the cave for the tutorial, but doing it like this would lead to the possibility of the player wandering off and not seeing the tutorial, so I guess they wanted to make extra sure you did it and cut the "you land on a beach then go into a cave" part and just get you to the cave.
While this starting point seems more fitting that what he have in the actual game, the sensation you have when you open for the very first time the door and see Limgrave is invaluable... I still remember what I felt. I hope the DLC give us a first moment like that.
I have always thought the intro is a bit disjointed ... like how did I get in a cave after being killed on an island somewhere. I always just said "suspension of disbelief" and plodded on but now I know it was just fumbled for some reason.
The Kaiden on the beach under the arch at the fire makes WAY more sense than the Onyx Lord being there. The beach start makes WAY more sense than starting in stranded graveyard. Holy shit.
It indeed makes more sense for the Melina cutscene, but I can see why they've changed it, as others suggested the big wow moment you get when you open the door to Limgrave would just be gone, and also I don't think developers would've wanted us to start in the open world right away, and potentially miss out on the tutorial area
Elden Ring is overall an amazing game but of all it's shortcomings the one that hit me the hardest was the beginning. You get that buildup of tarnished traveling to the lands between from all over the world, you know, most likely by boat, across a sea of fog. But then the game starts and you're in a little chapel that is absolutely inaccessible from anywhere by foot or boat, wayyy above sea level, it makes no sense how you got there or why you'd go there, since you can't even reach the rest of the lands between from there. And when you die you end up inside a cave that is not really connected to that chapel at all. It's a very disjointed, nonsensical way to start the game, and it's easy to forget only because lifting that cave's door to reveal Limgrave's open field is a very impressive moment. It's also strange because Elden Ring reuses many ideas from Demon's Souls. And in that game's intro you character quite literally walks through a dark place to cross a wall of fog. It's very similar to the intro cutscene in ER showing your character revived and rising in a dark cave, and allegedly going to cross a sea of fog. I absolutely wish we'd gotten this intro instead, it's so much more intuitive and coherent.
the place makes sense in a way but melina and torrent getting to the graveyard through closed doors also make sense since torrent is a spirits and melina can travel freely through places with graves and summoning pools
Interesting points here! It does make a lot more sense to start on that beach. Not just for lore consistency, but because it still funnels the player into the Stranded Graveyard. As it is? I'm almost under the impression that Melina and Torrent found the player, dragged him or her into the cave, and then left. The cutscene is a little odd there, but it works.
It's been a while folks! This time a new video that fist, digs Elden Ring original starting location, then restores Melina cutscene there, and shows you two alternate audio versions! Bonus track... a hidden path to Chapel of Anticipation. I hope you enjoy the video and subscribe if you liked it!
That last line of cut dialogue "for that is their curse" must have been a nod to Prince Lothric from DS3 because Prince Lothric literally says to his brother, "for that is our curse".
Possibly interesting question: There is hole above where you spawn in inside the Cave where Torrent and Melina smell you for the first time, if you go above ground the hole is by the area with bats, some Farum Azula pieces and the crucified that scream at night not too far from the first dragon (who's name escapes me)... you can't fall down the hole you just die but its supposedly aligns with where you now spawn in... Was the hole there already in the network-test or whatever oldest build you are looking at? (or was that hole created after they changed where the player would spawn inn after the Chapel of anticipation?)
(PS: I'm not sure where I learned of this Tarnished' disposal hole so I might be explaining info from one of your videos back to you right now, and if I am I can only apologize. )
((If the route we now take is still from the Chapel or Anticipation -> Into the sea -> washed up on that same beach -> and down that hole to the cave we now start at... are there any hints about who picked us up on the beach to drop us down the hole? The bats maybe?))
Just wanted to thank you for what you're doing. As someone who likes to delv into coding I'm super impressed by what you do. With all the major content creators that shout you out constantly you deserve more subs. It should piss me off but I had this epiphany that you are basically the Jimi Hendrix of Fromsoft TH-cam content creators. The "musician's musician." Thanks for all you do SD!
@@bplus2625 man, what a compliment, thanks!
@@jim0_o Godricks soldiers. The endboss is the Godrick soldier, so presumably they’re in charge of disposing unwanted tarnished in the grave
This place makes way more sense than the actual spawn point
If we're talking in lore, yes. Purely gameplay wise, though, the retail version hits harder. Opening a heavy door that reveals the breathtaking view of Limgrave under the golden Erdtree is timeless
@@CorelUser you are 100% right
2 things:
100% the first thing I would think, if this was the real start point, is that they ripped off shadow of the colossus.
The other thing i would guess in testing is that they found it took too long for the player to naturally make their way into the cavern so they just moved it there, so that the choice to explore or do the tutorial was immediate
I might be misrememberibg, but in Shadow of the Colossus, doesnt the game start with wander already on the horse before crossing the long bridge?@@PoniesNSunshine
it does until you realize that being tossed right onto a beach into the open world would be a weird tutorial location.
But starting at the open world beach wouldn't have given the player the "oblivion out of sewer moment" you get when you open the door to limgrave. I believe that was what they were going for
yup, that's my reasoning as well
thanks botw ,
edit , wait , if you go to the tutorial area anyways from the beach , they could have made a better path to follow , and the "oblivion out of sewer moment" would have worked even better cause we literally start from a washed up beach and then get the great green grand vista .
maybe that's why there was an item there for the player to follow , idk .
@@Erox006it’s so crazy that elder scrolls oblivion copied breath of the wild before breath of the wild was even a concept
@@Erox006 Do... Do you know what Oblivion is?
@@Erox006the problem Is that the beach Is an open area while the cave Is narrow and straightforward. You as developer can't know if the player Will Always follow the intended Path till the entrance of the cave or if they Will choose to go around the entire area. (To be sure of that you are forced to make that intended Path as the only viable choice of navigation in an artificial and very Blunt way...)
There's a cave entrance that leads from the beach into the starting cave. And you can see something has dragged you and other bodies into it. Also, Torrent and Melina are both spirits. They can appear anywhere.
There’s also a hole above the starting cave with a bunch of bodies in carts where they’re very clearly throwing bodies does into the starting cave.
Also the sound design of the cutscene makes no sense for it to be outside with the dripping water and the echo coming from torrents walking and sniffing.
Also, from has always preferred big entrances. Every game they’ve made started in an enclosed area for you to walk out and see the beauty of the world. Furthermore, they do it afterwards a lot too, like multiple times in DS3, like opening the door to lothric or getting to the ringed city, DS1 with Anor Londo, or even ER with your entrance to Elphael and Leyndell.
I don’t for one second believe they would have you start in cloudy weather on a beach and leave out a big reveal of the erdtree as a whole.
@@Bywezh0They likely added the echoing and dripping after moving the cutscene to be inside the cave.
Don't talk nonsense
They cut the mandatory beach scene with Melina, unforgivable
Elden Ring beach episode
Maidenless even
bikini time folks
"For that is their curse..." Damn gives me hella Souls vibes. Might be why they changed it.
I mean it's a near 1:1 of what Lothric tells Lorian
And ER is basically Ds3+ Gameplay wise
Oh ofcourse and there's always influence derived from older games. One only has to look at the Moonlight Greatsword as a long standing example.@@DreadGB
@@zqwc I completely agree
Plus the line would be contradicted by the majority of named Tarnished NPCs in the game not seeking the Elden Ring, having either abandoned their quest or having no apparent interest to begin with.
ds2 prologue also i think?
"Somehow Torrent and Melina managed to get there...".
The mount as well as the fire lady are disembodied beings. For them, this is not a problem. I'm guessing here. Melina is nocliping all day.
Senior Dubai
yeah and there's a cave entrance on the beach that leads right to the cave you start up in anyways haha
If only she could no-clip herself home
It's also worth noting that the painting/promotional art of Godfrey and Serrosh depicts him on a shore, heavily suggesting it is depicting his arrival to the lands between. It's kind of hard to understand the magical logistics of the arrival of the Tarinshed in the current game, like they just randomly "puff" themselves in the lands between after dying? With this cut content, along with the cut Godfrey speech, it now seems clear that the whole batch of Tarnished, including Godfrey, would have arrived by boats and ships in the previous version of the game, a much more straight-forward and least mystical answer than the one shown in the intro cinematic.
in one hand i get why they choose to do it as the game is now, but imagine the possibility of we talking to "Hoarah Loux" first and not knowing who he is, and then proceed to fight him as the second to last boss and introduce himself as Godfrey. that would be amazing
@@ilhamadigunawan5264yeah I feel like any sort of boost in meeting characters/coming to know them throughout the game would’ve made it all a bit cooler. Like how you find out maliketh is the beast clergyman with the different dialogue.
Impossible, as his axe in the painting is already broken, and we know the axe was broken during the long march when he left the lands between after becoming tarnished
@@Frank-kq4te Exactly, his axe would be already broken upon his arrival. People got mixed up in the beginning and called it a plothole because they thought the painting was from he in the badlands, something that was not as easily fitted in the timeline (someone making him a portrait a mean, not that it ever was actually), but if you look closely at the background, and notably the feet/bottom part of it, you can see a close resemblance to the shores of Limgrave, just as the old spawn point shown in the video or the weeping peninsula
@@ilhamadigunawan5264 Yeah, something akin to that would have made the bossfight a lot more meaningful, instead of being a test of who is actually paying attention, with his dual identity still being a revelation but with the feeling of closeness that this was your leader in the past, a dynamic only really similar to Sekiro and Owl, but with you being a common soldier or warrior. Conceptually, I like a lot more the current death part of the prophecy rather than we just arriving on boats, mostly because I feel that the art of Hoarah Loux hanged and gutted is awesome and extremely evocative, to the level of Rykard being eaten and Mohg kidnapping Miquella. My ideal version would be of the game starting with a cutscene of all the Tarnished executed or dead in a field, with our Tarnished among them, and then the camera showing Godfrey/Hoarah Loux prominently crucified and impailed in a tree, with either someone talking or him to give just enough context but not very much, ending with a panoramic shot of the Badlands and a multitud of corpses.
The fact that Torrent is the one looking for you especifically instead of Melina may be a sign of Miquella's influence in your journey. Not only that but by gifting you the spirit bell too
Yeah “torrent former master”
I'm convinced our pc houses Miquella's soul, a fragment of it, or we were created by his will or something. Very sketchy.
Bro you cooked
spoiler alert miquella doesnt give a shit about you
@@kareefhaque432 a fitting allegory of those writing the plot of elden ring
The Grafted scion being an optional boss adjacent to Stormveil would've elevated the dungeon even higher. Incredible work, friend.
i remember in the network test the grafter scion being in Stormveil, at the roon where they lock you in. I still remember the sheer terror I felt
You can revisit the entire area later at the bell towers, west side of Liurna lakes.
There's still a scion IN the castle
The point is that we were likely meant to arrive alongside the other tarnished by boat from the Badlands, along with Godfrey. However, we ended up shipwrecked, which explains why we can see the wrecked boat out at sea and why there are numerous references to the tarnished arriving by boat. My little conspiracy theory is that the fake Godfrey battle before Morgott is actually the tutorial Godfrey boss that they opted to remove, along with the boat introduction. I wonder what the reason for the shipwrecking was supposed to be, though.
Have thought a lot about something something related (before the DLC) from what I've seen there are only shipwrecks in the game (except for the tibia mariner's but I'll excuse that with them kind of being ghosts or something), you do however see a lot of boats big and small on the map as if to indicate boats were used a lot or people escaped to sea. ie. to me it looks like there is something (possible out at sea) wrecking any boat that tries to leave the mainland.
This would also IMO align with why the death-blight-infection seems to turn gods into Koi-Squid-Chimera-monsters.
Plus approaching ships would probably be visible to Farum Azula's dragons if they were feeling peckish.
When I first played the game at launch I spotted a destroyed ship from Radhan's arena and I wondered if something could take me there since it looked so close.
Of course it never happened lol. The sea it's something that always made everyone that's into the lore of the Souls games very curious
@@jim0_o I do recall hearing that if you look at into the ocean near Liurnia's tower, you could see what looks to be roots or brambles coming out of the water, just south of the tree. Considering Godwyn and everything associated with death have strong connections to the ocean, it wouldn't surprise me if deathblight-infested monsters plagued the coasts, making safe entry into and out of the Lands Between virtually impossible. Would explain why there's not a single dock in the game; there's no chance of escape.
@@aiasfreeThis is cool af, what is the exact place?
Even if we are killed and don't fall into the water, it makes sense that we are find washed ashore as the grafted scion much like Godrick doesn't find us ''fit even to graft'' and tossed us into the ocean rather than take us
iirc if you die the cutscene happens almost immediately without a proper death for the player. So it's just as easy to headcanon that the scion knocked you off the ledge in the struggle.
You know, there's a logical inconsistency in the dialogue as well. The Melina we encounter mentions that she has lost her memories and needs to return to Leyndell to recover them and uncover her mother's plan. Queen Marika intended to exploit Melina as kindling to burn the Erdtree. This is why Melina approaches us after we are spurned by the thorns of the Erdtree. She knows our objectives coincide since we, tarnished, don't hold allegiance to the Golden Order or the Erdtree; we're indifferent to its destruction, unlike the Golden Order zealots or Morgott, for example. That's why she remarks, "One of his kind is sure to seek the Elden Ring, even if it violates the Golden Order."
The issue arises because the version of Melina we encounter wouldn't be concerned about this point since she has lost her memories. So either she's deceiving us for half of our journey, or what I personally suspect is happening: she was initially intended to approach us from the start with the notion that we would ultimately burn the Erdtree. However, during development, her storyline was altered, resulting in a cutscene that contains an error.
This actually makes a lot of sense. I know the "golden order" part was always a bit noisy but I couldn't pint point why. Now you make it quite clear
I see where you’re coming from however her suggesting that the player (potentially) have to burn the Erdtree wouldn’t really be a contradiction to her memory cuz she doesn’t remember HER purpose. She could’ve still known the potential of having the Erdtree burned but not truly understand her role in Marika’s skeem.
“Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless.
There is something for which I must apologize. I've acted the finger maiden yet I can offer no guidance, I am no maiden.
My purpose was long ago lost...”
Her searching her purpose
“My utmost thanks. For bringing me to the base of the Erdtree. Here, I can govern my own movement. And thus, the accord is fullfiled. I shall depart to ascertain the purpose I was given…...”
And her remembering her role
“Hello again, old friend. Allow me a moment to converse with you. You were unable to enter the Erdtree, no? Prevented by the mantle of barbs. The thorns are impenetrable. A husk of the Erdtree's being; that spurns all that exists without. The only way to stand before the Elden Ring...and become the Elden Lord...is to pass the thorns. My purpose serves to aid in that very act. So I'd like you to undertake a new journey, with me. To the flame of ruin, far above the clouds, upon the snow mountaintops of the giants. Then I can set the Erdtree aflame. And guide you. Down the path to becoming Elden Lord.”
It’s convenient but her memory loss largely is more about her purpose specifically not the whole plan in itself.
She is being influenced and use by Miquella. Just like Ranni in some way. They are working for Miquella to find him a new Lord which is us Tarnished.
That's no inconsistency, the tarnished seeking the Elden Ring is basically just common knowledge in the Lands Between, it's been set to happen for a long time.
I think there's deliberately some ambiguity about whether she really forgot her purpose, or whether she believed herself to have a purpose that she still remembers, but that purpose doesn't make any sense in light of changing events and so it was "lost" and she's effectively trying to go ask "What am I supposed to do now?"
Would’ve been sooo much more fun and logical. Also, as someone who lives in Edinburgh it’s fascinating that that’s what they call stormveil castle
Stormveil has less steps.
Same here! Miyazaki said they visited scotland and thats where they got a lot of inspiration for designs in Elden Ring
stormveil at home:
The cave audio on the beach is kinda eerie. I know it's probably because they never went so far as to record the audio with waves instead of drips and echoes. But it's like a storm just passed but our consciousness is cloudy and our ears are waterlogged.
The beach makes so much more sense than the cave though! The chapel of anticipation is on the coast across from Stormveil, I always assumed that we were supposed to just pretend the current carried us to the cave, but it never made sense to me that we would get dragged through a waterway into the cave's stream when there doesn't seem to be any current running into the cave from the oceanside.
Such a strange design choice. Having the player awaken in the stranded graveyard doesn’t seem to add anything, but makes the player confused about how you ended up in a cave after falling in the sea (later you see that at high tide you could wash into the cave, but this isn’t immediately apparent). I see no downside to starting the player on the beach as the only exit without Torrent is the same way you enter Limgrave in the retail version.
Unless I’m mistaken if you start on that beach you can just follow the coastline north and there is eventually a slope you can normally traverse between the beach and Limgrave proper. Most souls start you with you arriving under curious circumstances so I don’t find it out of place, and you do ultimately find out out how you ended up in the cave which adds a little ahah! moment of discovery
@@Bones_No, the part of the beach connected to the starting cave is entirely separated and only accessible by using Torrent.
I can think of 2 reasons why they did this:
-to railroad the player past the tutorial area, something which would be hard to do if you awaken in the open world
-to have that first grandiose reveal of limgrave when you open the doors to the first step, with your eyes immediatly drawn to the erdtree
@@Falx415 ok thanks for the reminder, that tertiary starting area is probably the least mapped out in my memory
@@bertvanbeterbed9702 But you don't awaken in the open world. You awaken on a secluded beach and the only way out without Torrent is through the retail cave. So you still need to go past the tutorial area, you still get that first grandiose reveal.
I’m so glad you exist Sekiro, thank you for this amazing discover
Babe, wake up! New cut content just dropped!!!!
Miquella is torrent's former master after all
The ocean with broken columns in the distance has a nice symmetry with the final boss arena--makes sense for the beach to be the starting area.
This seems to imply that Melina and Torrent were sent to look for a specific tarnished, and that Torrent was the one who knew how to recognize the correct one.
Theory crafting a little bit. Miquella has connections to Torrent. My crazy theory is that Miquella sent Torrent to Melina from the realm they were, and Torrent brought a message to Melina telling her to aid the tarnished that Torrent's gonna point to. The initial spawn is in a very specific crypt, meaning that the player isn't just some random tarnished, but a tarnished that has some history.
This is absolutely incredible work. Psyched to see people mine through files to produce this level of content this late in the game. Bravo 👏
This actually makes a lot more sense than the final game.
I honestly wanna play a full build of this cut content version of ER.
It seems super cool and has a lot more DS vibes.
It still doesn't make sense how we would wake up in Chapel after walking into the light.
The Chapel Of Anticipation is just that; a chapel made in anticipation of your arrival. I believe it being a magical arrival point is the point; it exists to recieve Tarnished who have crossed the fog.
Maybe Varre dumped us there after he killed our maiden? I assume the corpse in the starting room is our dead maiden.
I didn't expect the map we translated to come in such a useful way back then
Hey, that was amazing work. I would love to get in touch with you guys... I have so many more questions from other Chinese stuff I've found in the game. If you have access to twitter my DMs are open
@@SekiroDubi Sure. But my twitter is unavailable now. Actually, I do recall that we are both in a elden ring discord server. I can contact you via discord.
@@WallaceTS just ping me there. Cya
Somehow I never noticed the Chapel of Anticipation could be seen from that back porch of Stormveil Castle, I’ve always just ran by on my way to open that door back to the grace.
My own headcannon for how the Tarnished ended up inside the Stranded Graveyard is that enemy on the beach (Onyx lord?) found our body and used the Stranded Graveyard as a dumping ground, like a “Get off my beach”
At the start area we see a small erdtree but it has no seeds under it.
But when we first wake up we get our flasks at that place.
I think melina is the one who takes us there for shelter and makes the flasks for us using the seeds under that tree to treat us after getting shredded by the scion.
You mean after chasing the pretty butterflies off the cliff.
(\ (\ ⠀⠀
(„• ֊ •„)
O🦋O
0:35 this is because both torrent and melina can and have been seen teleporting and fading in and out of reality
I wonder why this was changed...it seems like a more sensible starting point. Also, Melina's voice actor is so great. Chills.
They wanted us to open the door to the world probably, not just wash ashore and see it right away
Because it wouldn't have delivered the same results.
The end result is way more impactful, for the simple fact that after waking up under a cave. You find yourself in this beautiful landscape after opening the doors.
Starting from the beach would of taken that feeling away.
very fair point! It's sort of reminiscent of breath of the wild in that respect. The contrast of tight confined dark space followed by wide open beauty is what made the opening so memorable. @@parkout95
Without Torrent, you can’t leave the beach area where the removed cutscene takes place without going through the Stranded Graveyard anyway, and the sheer cliffs block your view of the beautiful open landscape.
Had they stuck with their original intent, they would’ve still had their “wow, look at how great our open world looks” moment after opening a door, it just would’ve circumvented the fridge logic of the Tarnished teleporting from a plateau to an underground cavern half a mile away.
@@parkout95A grim, foggy beach with a huge cliff side obscuring your view of anything but the ocean behind you that leads directly into that cave anyway wouldn’t give the same experience?
Interesting that the player originally started the game in a place that makes sense, but they chose to change it to something that makes the player guess, "How did I even get here?"
I love that idea that in the current version of the game, you end up in the Stranded Graveyard by being dropped down the "Limgrave Hole" by The First Step. Invaders have been using that hole to trick bloodthirsty gank squads since the game came out. When they're chasing you, you just run and jump over that hole. SO many people just drop down or don't jump far enough because they don't realize a deep hole is underneath them until it's too late. Geographically, it makes perfect sense that the hole would lead down to the Stranded Graveyard.
I think putting us in that cave is to make a strong impression on new players. Pretty damn sure every one of us was in awe when we stepped out into Limgrave for the first time. Wouldn't be the same if we woke up on the shores since scenery didn't look as amazing
That would’ve still happened. You start washed up on a dingy beach with heavy fog, find the cave entrance, go through the “stranded graveyard”, take the elevator up and open the same door to the clear fields of Limgrave.
Could’ve done without the weird chapel spawn too. But honestly there’s way too much that would’ve been better left out of Elden Ring.
This confirms what I've been suspecting since you showed Godfrey's cut dialogue. Which suggests that we wouldn't even start from the Chapel of Anticipation but rather fight our impossible-to-win classic FromSoft boss in a small cut off map in the badlands, get revived by grace, take a boat/ship to return to the lands between, get caught up in a storm and wash up at this shore.
True, the intro with concept arts were made in the last moment probable cause they had another.
Very interesting! I think story-wise this place makes a lot more sense for our tarnished to spawn at, but given that the actual Stranded Graveyard we have now is where they made the tutorial system, I think they chose to focus more on the gameplay and straightforwardness of finding the tutorial area, as spawning here could cause players to miss it!
But this does also more or less confirm the theory that tarnished were not native to the lands between either, and came from a different area with godfrey after he was exiled!
This area could potentially be the "Land of Shadows" and theres quite a lot of evidence to support this that I cant give access to here.
I mean, is not really a mystery. Godfrey with all the original Tarnished were forced to abandone TLB through boat crossing the sea.
Rusted Anchor; "While the Tarnished left the Lands Between with their Lord, one boat alone was said to have been left behind."
Godfrey in particular ended up in the Badlands but we know other Tarnished ended up in different lands like the Lands of Reeds and Eochaid. The point of all this places is that they lie outside TLB, beyond the sea of fog, same sea that some tarnished were forced to cross through their own means after being revived by Marika to come back to TLB.
Roderika's Dialogue; "Everyone's...been grafted. Everyone who came with me. They crossed the sea for me. They fought, for me. Heh... Only to have their arms taken. Their legs taken. Even their heads...taken. Taken and stuck to the spider. Did you know? If you're grafted by the spider, you become a chrysalid. It's quite the lark, when you think about it."
It's unlikely that Lands of Shadow are the Badlands mainly because they're, well, named The Lands of Shadow as in a proper name unlike the badlands that are more just a descriptor. The Lands of Shadow are also in TLB just hidden by somekind of spell or artifact (probably thanks to Marika) and cannot be access by just taking a boat to them since Miquella had to "reliquinshed" everything to enter there (wich I guess the path he created is what lets us enter using his body) and we had to follow through his steps to get there (Miyazaki Interview). If one could just get there with a boat or if people were just consistently getting out of there (wich would be the implication if we assumed the Tarnished with Godfrey are coming from there) then really the entire situation with Miquella wouldn't make much sense.
I think I like this start more than the Retail game. As other comments have pointed out, I think the change from this to what we have in retail is related to emphasizing the opening of the grate to Limgrave being all the more impressive. In both versions of the opening, our character truly "wakes" in the Chapel of Anticipation and either loses to the Grafted Scion or beats it and the result is the same. It goes directly into the Melina Cutscene and we go from there. I like waking up on the beach and slowly making our way up to Limgrave through the graveyard more because of the break in the narrative that's implied when we are already inside the Stranded Graveyard with Melina behind a closed door like you said in the video. Given the fact that you can already see the Erdtree/Limgrave/Castle Stormveil from the Chapel of Anticipation immediately after starting a New game; I don't think there is that much lost/gained by having the player start on the beach as opposed to inside the graveyard. Starting in the Graveyard has the benefit of surprising the player when they open the grate to reach Limgrave showing them the gigantic world they have access to now. Starting the player in the Beach would feel similar to the start of DS3 before Gundyr where you just explore a small area and face weak enemies to learn controls. You can still have the same surprise opening the grate to Limgrave following this, but I can understand changing it because starting the player on the beach sort of feels as if the game has already opened up even though it hasn't. I like the opening on the beach A LOT more than the base game, and I think it could have benefitted if we started there all along. The only thing I can think of as a problem is potentially having to block the player in with landscapes that lead them to the Stranded Graveyard so they don't have access to the rest of the beach until progressing.
Amazing work! This makes much more sense and would have been a more thrilling starting point for the incredible journey in the Lands Between.
Wasn't there another cut content where we see Melina taking Torrent whistle ring off her finger and placing it on the Tarnished finger? I think that was ELDEN RING - Official Gameplay Reveal trailer.
melina was so underutilized it's sad i wish there were more interactions like this
"Even if it dies violate, the the golden orda" sounds better in my opinion.
I found these sound files and its so interesting to see how it fits together! thank you for doing this :)
Since the game came out that I've been saying the game should have started in this beach. If they really wanted a boss to kill you, they could've just used the Onyx Lord on the beach as your first combat. If you kill him, you get a reward and proceed into the cave. If you die, he throws you into the cave. Either way you'd end on the stranded graveyard and you could come back later for revenge.
The way it goes in the final version of the game is so complicated and needlessly confusing lore-wise.
Very interesting, thank you! I imagine the issue might have been players missing stranded graveyard entirely, and the Breath of the Wild reveal moment at the end, which they probably cared a lot about
There’s no other location to go to in that beach other than the graveyard.
yeah the cave itself is not quite well telegraphed from the beach (which also was probably the point in the first place, so players are expected to look at every corner for pathways). I think the final intro is a bit less elegant, but ticks all the right boxes.
Amazing, thx for the cutscene and dialog restored!
Kind of bewildering why it was changed honestly.
Some people here in the comment section are unsure how the tarnished arrived in the Lands Between so I'll try to theorize on this. Since the whole "tarnished arrives by boat" thing was scrapped, I believe we are teleported by our Finger Maidens, I presume ours did this during her last breath as well.
Now, there's a problem to that because Godfrey doesn't have a maiden, so either he's an exception or the guidance of grace itself is able to teleport us, to which we would be welcomed by our Finger Maiden.
Or, Marika was his effective finger maiden, and she was the one that pulled him back
@@CocoNut-yd1ri Could be, although I don't know if she can have any sort of power while being crucified by the Greater Will
You seriously believe a Chad like godfrey wouldn't swim all the way?????
Here's a thought - if the Land of Shadow is shrouded and "hidden" away physically from the Lands Between, could it be that we were in the Land of Shadow and the "across the fog, to the Lands Between" is as literal as it sounds? That we, the PC Tarnished, were tasked someone like Miquella to cross that fog from the Land of Shadow into the Lands Between to become Elden Lord? It could also explain what that big massive cloud is in the middle of the map?
Kinda nice to see that there's still new things that we can find even 2 years after the game launched
Stormveil is Edinburgh?! That makes a lot of sense. Great video
This is a neat bit of information! I can imagine the cutscene baking in the sound of waves instead of drips, heh.
Thanks for your investigation and sharing your findings. Enjoyed a lot
I've been thinking about making the game start at that very beach if I ever make an overhaul, glad to see I intuited something that was actually planned
05:40 that kinda tracks, because originally tarnished was to be one of Godfrey's warriors who he sended up ahead to prepare the way for him. Eventually plot would've progressed where as instead of faciltating Godfrey's return, player tarnished would start set themselves as Godfrey's rival. They later changed it so that tarnished would be more of a blank slate as "no renown" and that Godfrey's return would be general surprise.
So Marika cursed the tarnished to seek the elden ring. Like she curse Hewg to smith a godslayong weapon and cursed the fire giant to guard the flame of ruin...
This video has only now raised the question: if Melina can only manifest at Sites of Grace or at the foot of/inside the Erdtree, how the heck does she and Torrent find us at the beginning of the game!?
This is cool stuff! I hadn't stopped to wonder before how our tarnished wound up in the Stranded Graveyard, and how Melina wound up there riding Torrent!
"Is this her, Torrent?" Sounds like something they could have used for NG+. Like, "Is this the one that started again after completing the game? Cursed to go after the Elden Ring again."
always felt like that beach even with the gravity guy felt like it was designed as a point for you to travel from rather than look back around and discover. Too distinct.
“For that is their curse.” Is way more fitting given that the Tarnished seeking the throne is supposed to be rigged to fail by Radagon, this “curse” being the fact that most Tarnished are destined to fail in their attempt to seek the throne.
i truly can't get enough of from soft cinematography. their cutscenes are always so damn beautifully shot
Someone been sleeping under a rock this was confirmed by developers years ago, as they didn't want players to skip the tutorial section and get lost on where to go.
This makes so much more sense in every way...
-Instead of warping the player twice before the game even begins, you just wash ashore. Far cleaner start, and gets bonus points in hindsight for being related to the way the tarnished left TLB in the first place.
-You don't (or barely) get to see the erdtree before the Breath Of The Wild Moment.
-You already get pulverised by a hopeless bossfight at the start (the tree sentinel), there was no need for it to happen twice with the scion.
-The chapel of anticipation has the stormveil aesthetic, and a grafting-related miniboss, so it makes sense for the entrance to be in stormveil.
This channel is kinda depressing honestly. Seeing this game before it was gutted by nonsensical editing makes me bitter at the one we got.
Fromsoft seems to love rearranging everything for no reason throughout development and breaking stuff or removing things that were fine as they were
Amazing details. Thank you for this 😊
"Oh, dear Brother... I'm on my way. My brother, unyielding sword of Lothric's Prince.Rise if you would.for that is our curse.”
Big DS3 vibes from that cutscene.
Honestly it still could have worked. Since the only way out of there is back through that cave. It's not like you'd have torrent to get out from the jump springs yet. Unless there's something there I'm forgetting.
Amazing work as always!
I grew up not far from Edinburgh and learning my favourite castle is named for it makes me so so happy ❤
Thanks for sharing! I always thought you were supposed to wash up there after discovering that area.
Very cool. Especially the Stormveil warp. It always drove me crazy that the chapel was right there on the map, but with no apparent connection. It also explains the Grafted Scion.
Ayanokoji is so disturbingly quiet waiting for Sakayanagi's sudden defeat
There was a Bloodborne lore channel called Charred Thermos, he theorized that Yharnam was inspired in old Edinburgh. Now that the name pops up again it sounds like a confirmation to me. Amazing work as always!
You question it being odd how Melina got into the cave. Yet the entire time she appears out of thin air at sites of grace.
But as for the rest, definitely makes more sense of a connection
Exactly. “At sites of grace”. Also in that area by stranded graveyard you cannot call torrent.
I believe they cut this out because it would have been too obvious it is the same starting point in Eternal Ring and thus the same island from that game. Eternal Ring is another FromSoft title.
The beach makes thematic-aesthetic sense. The fallen arches are reminiscent of the ones in DS1 Firelink, DS2 Majula, DS3 Cemetery of Ash.
This game has the best lore in any other game
Excellent investigative work!
Oh god, THANK YOU.I knew in my heart it was dumb as shit the start of the game (even more with the fade to black screen after getting killed by the scion). I love the game but hate so much all the cut content they did, and the shadow it left behind is so obvious you cant ignore it. This, which was hinted everywhere that the tarnished will come back from far away by boat (just as they left the lands between), the entire Kale quest, whatever with godfrey and loux...the game feels so unpolish.
While this is cool, I think the starting point we got is better for a good number of reasons.
1) It still makes sense if you consider tides. We could have just as easily washed up inside the cave during high tide.
2) The location we got focuses the player properly. It is very easy to get overwhelmed in a huge game world especially if the basics are not covered yet. So starting in Chapel of Anticipation and then Stranded Graveyard - two of the smallest hostile areas in game, helps.
3) The setup to the opening shot of Limgrave is much more impactful and beautiful since we start out in the cave first.
4) Melina's line saying that we are "cursed" does not make too much sense either. Unlike in Dark Souls, in Elden Ring, Tarnished can lose their grace and therefore their revival ability. And we are one of the few Tarnished that can still see Guidance from Grace. Also, we are not bound to any one plan unlike in Dark Souls with linking the fire or going mad. We have a pretty good amount of freedom as long as we kill some of the Demigods. We also don't lose our humanity or sanity on death unlike in Dark Souls. We literally have free reign to reshape the Lands Between as we see fit. Even going as far as to either completely destroy everything with Frenzy or completely removing the Elden Ring with Ranni.
Points 2 and 3 are irrelevant as that specific beach leads only to the stranded graveyard. There’s no other areas to go to from there, so the limgrave reveal would still be there.
“For that is their curse”
*An intense flashback of the entire Dark Souls lore plays in my mind*
This is so much better than what we got...
Wow this makes way more sense and I would’ve preferred if this made it into the final cut.
Having the player actually traverse from the beach to the stranded graveyard helps connect the dots for how we got there after the grafted scion fight.
While I understand wanting to make to opening gate to Limgrave the big open world moment, that still could’ve been accomplished by having the beach be very hazy due to the player character being very delirious after falling into the sea from the church of anticipation above.
Thank you for this nice information. I think “Torrent” can therefore refer to the waterfall from which we fall, as well as to the ability of the mount to overcome high obstacles.
I feel like when Miyazaki makes stories, he makes them then pokes holes to it and lets us figure it out. Miyazaki loves his puzzles.
I always thought that it was a strange place to start the game, now it makes more sense.
I love to discover this kind of cut content.
Boat guys drawing on the map keep circulating the map to get back tarnisheds after they die,if they don't find you your save file gets corrupted 😮
The starting cutscene always made sense to me after I entered the Stranded Graveyard by the cave. The tarnished feel in the ocean and ended up in that beach and Melina dragged him into the starting point as a safety measure
I'm glad they changed it. Even if doesn't make sense and people try to explain how it makes sense. It just feels better with the retail starting location.
This does make sense the chapel is on a map west of stormveil. Falling and then the drift would have you on the beach.
I wonder why they disabled this cutscene, everything makes so much sense! Incredible video. Thank you!
Something making sense doesn’t necessarily mean it has the most impact. Players waking up in the cave and then opening up the doors into limgrave has way more impact.
And Zullie the Witch didn't find out about it? Dang.
Good job out there.
Makes sense. Essentially you would fall off the cliff and end up at the beach. And that beach only has 1 way out if you don't have Torrent. And that's through the cave you start in after the Chapel
"Bear, seek, seek, lest" aah dialogue
This is very cool! Nice job indeed.
This is more fitting actually. It's kinda sad that is not what we have
I always wondered why we appeared on that cave for no reason at all. Now it makes so much more sense. My guess is that they initially wanted to make the cutscene at the beach, and then have the player organically wander into the cave for the tutorial, but doing it like this would lead to the possibility of the player wandering off and not seeing the tutorial, so I guess they wanted to make extra sure you did it and cut the "you land on a beach then go into a cave" part and just get you to the cave.
While this starting point seems more fitting that what he have in the actual game, the sensation you have when you open for the very first time the door and see Limgrave is invaluable... I still remember what I felt. I hope the DLC give us a first moment like that.
Cool vid bro.😺
I have always thought the intro is a bit disjointed ... like how did I get in a cave after being killed on an island somewhere. I always just said "suspension of disbelief" and plodded on but now I know it was just fumbled for some reason.
The Kaiden on the beach under the arch at the fire makes WAY more sense than the Onyx Lord being there. The beach start makes WAY more sense than starting in stranded graveyard. Holy shit.
It indeed makes more sense for the Melina cutscene, but I can see why they've changed it, as others suggested the big wow moment you get when you open the door to Limgrave would just be gone, and also I don't think developers would've wanted us to start in the open world right away, and potentially miss out on the tutorial area
I love that Edinburgh was the code name for Stormveil Castle
I prefer this version of the dialogue than the one we got.
Elden Ring is overall an amazing game but of all it's shortcomings the one that hit me the hardest was the beginning. You get that buildup of tarnished traveling to the lands between from all over the world, you know, most likely by boat, across a sea of fog. But then the game starts and you're in a little chapel that is absolutely inaccessible from anywhere by foot or boat, wayyy above sea level, it makes no sense how you got there or why you'd go there, since you can't even reach the rest of the lands between from there. And when you die you end up inside a cave that is not really connected to that chapel at all.
It's a very disjointed, nonsensical way to start the game, and it's easy to forget only because lifting that cave's door to reveal Limgrave's open field is a very impressive moment.
It's also strange because Elden Ring reuses many ideas from Demon's Souls. And in that game's intro you character quite literally walks through a dark place to cross a wall of fog. It's very similar to the intro cutscene in ER showing your character revived and rising in a dark cave, and allegedly going to cross a sea of fog.
I absolutely wish we'd gotten this intro instead, it's so much more intuitive and coherent.
it makes so much more sense, i dont get why they changed it.
the place makes sense in a way but melina and torrent getting to the graveyard through closed doors also make sense since torrent is a spirits and melina can travel freely through places with graves and summoning pools
Interesting points here! It does make a lot more sense to start on that beach. Not just for lore consistency, but because it still funnels the player into the Stranded Graveyard.
As it is? I'm almost under the impression that Melina and Torrent found the player, dragged him or her into the cave, and then left. The cutscene is a little odd there, but it works.
How did they get in if the door is closed????
Bro they can both appear out of thin air. What kinda logic are we workin with on that one?