Toleration in Moorish Spain functioned as I understand it on the basis that religious minorities had to pay a levy for the privilege of living in an Islamic society. I don't think a policy whereby the Dutch imposed a tax on Muslims for the privilege of living in a European democratic society would be seen as toleration.
He was pressed for time. Or maybe you refer towards his bias against PVV? As he was pressed for time, he had to be clear on what he wanted from mr. Israel.
Philosophy, when it undertakes to understand or prove the infinite by means of a finite understanding, results necessarily in reducing the divine to something finite. This is why the rationalist project of proving the existence of God must be abandoned. Friedrich Heinrich Jacobi, (about Spinoza)
This guy is very eloquent and knows a lot about Benedict Spinoza. However, he seemed to contradict himself by saying that Salafism shouldn't be banned when he knows that it's a school that preaches hatred!
Not sure our modern society is more tollererant that the one of the past. Maybe we have new forms of tollerance still not sure it is more tollerant and if it looks like it is it is simply because we are forced to coexist with other colture.
Jonathan Israel's books on the Enlightenment are precious and a joy to study carefully. Steven Pinker's *Enlightenment Now* follows the same path of Spinoza and Israel. Our era is the Enlightenment era, but the Post-Truth movement (following Post-Modernism) now is a force to fight against. Truth matters. Science matters.
Interviewer benoemd uitspraak Wilders over Marokkanen en Israel heeft het over de Islam. Alsof Marokkanen per se moslim moeten zijn. En zou nemen wij Marokkanen hun recht op vrijheid van Godsdienst af. Van die foute Wilders die misschien toch niet zo fout is mogen ze juist wel van geloof veranderen.
The Complete Writings of Roger Williams - Volume 3: Bloudy Tenent of Persecution by Roger Williams Enter Roger Williams, an iconic figure who is hailed as an early American hero for religious liberty. And indeed he was. Banished from Massachusetts Bay colony in 1635 for protesting against the oppressive theocratic rule of the Puritans as well as their unfair acquisition of Indian land, he wrote The Bloudy Tenant roughly a decade later while he was in England fighting to secure a charter for his newly founded colony in Rhode Island. www.goodreads.com/book/show/2496189.The_Complete_Writings_of_Roger_Williams_Volume_3
But didnt he basically say that there is no need for any religious authority because everybody can understand the scripture and should be allowed to formulate an own opinion on it?
What do you mean by ‘the scripture’? Spinoza was a revolutionary because he rejected all religious authority, regardless of the religion or scriptures.
Please. Spinoza uses a lot of fighting language in the Ethics and in his letters where traditional beliefs are concerned, especially in the areas of miracles, biblical law, anthropomorphism and theodicy. He did more than just disagree. In fact, in his early twenties, he would walk around Amsterdam and pick arguments with yeshiva students and mock certain features of Jewish belief and practice. As he got older, he matured. But at one time, he was openly antagonistic.
The guy seems to be very knowledgeable in history but not very much prepared in Christian and Islamic theology in order to undestand the internal motivations that make certain groups behave in certain ways
What a dope you are. Spinoza never renounced Judaism. In fact, he penned an apologia defending his philosophy in light of the Torah and rabbinic literature. He was excommunicated, but never converted to Christianity despite the efforts of his Chistian friends. Spinoza was born a Jew, was educated as a Jew, and died a Jew. He was no longer observant, but a Jew notwithstanding. Know what you're talking about, please.
He may be a good scholar of Dutch history but he appears to be totally ignorant of Islam. Islam was never and cannot be a tolerant religion as long as Quran is treated as divine revelation.
Simpel gezegd religie is bruikbaar om goed te doen en om kwaad te doen. Met andere woorden het is menselijk niet goddelijk. Dat is problematisch voor zij die willen onderdrukken door middel van religie.
interesting discussion but it reaches a unfortunate cul de sac , with the total success of liberal relativism the secular authority or "scientific" concensus becomes the new religious authority..........and so we have arrived - ok not so much a cul de sac but a little U shaped drive back to the main road.
10:00 -11:00 Wat zegt ie nou? Ik wilde eigenlijk zijn boeken kopen. Maar wat hij nu over de Islam zegt maakt hem een slechte leermeester en wat mij betreft een onbetrouwbare historicus. Toevallig heb ik me verdiept in de Islam en Bill Warner en Robert Spencer denken toch wat anders over tolerantie in de Islam.
Radical Enlightenment is a masterwork.
Excellent and highly inspiring. Thanks for sharing
Great interview
Damn, grandpa really knows what he's saying
You know nothing about religion
@@actualideas8078 I think I might've heard something about religion
Toleration in Moorish Spain functioned as I understand it on the basis that religious minorities had to pay a levy for the privilege of living in an Islamic society. I don't think a policy whereby the Dutch imposed a tax on Muslims for the privilege of living in a European democratic society would be seen as toleration.
they should have had another interviewer!!
He was pressed for time. Or maybe you refer towards his bias against PVV? As he was pressed for time, he had to be clear on what he wanted from mr. Israel.
They should ask a gentile
Philosophy, when it undertakes to understand or prove the infinite by means of a finite understanding, results necessarily in reducing the divine to something finite. This is why the rationalist project of proving the existence of God must be abandoned.
Friedrich Heinrich Jacobi, (about Spinoza)
EXCELLENT!
This guy is very eloquent and knows a lot about Benedict Spinoza. However, he seemed to contradict himself by saying that Salafism shouldn't be banned when he knows that it's a school that preaches hatred!
And what about Judaism? Don’t they worship demons?
Not sure our modern society is more tollererant that the one of the past. Maybe we have new forms of tollerance still not sure it is more tollerant and if it looks like it is it is simply because we are forced to coexist with other colture.
Jonathan Israel's books on the Enlightenment
are precious and a joy to study carefully.
Steven Pinker's *Enlightenment Now* follows
the same path of Spinoza and Israel. Our era
is the Enlightenment era, but the Post-Truth
movement (following Post-Modernism) now
is a force to fight against. Truth matters. Science matters.
Have some nuance
@@bentaro9743 Some nuance:
"Silence. The breeze. It blows."
Interviewer benoemd uitspraak Wilders over Marokkanen en Israel heeft het over de Islam. Alsof Marokkanen per se moslim moeten zijn. En zou nemen wij Marokkanen hun recht op vrijheid van Godsdienst af. Van die foute Wilders die misschien toch niet zo fout is mogen ze juist wel van geloof veranderen.
The Complete Writings of Roger Williams - Volume 3: Bloudy Tenent of Persecution
by Roger Williams Enter Roger Williams, an iconic figure who is hailed as an early American hero for religious liberty. And indeed he was. Banished from Massachusetts Bay colony in 1635 for protesting against the oppressive theocratic rule of the Puritans as well as their unfair acquisition of Indian land, he wrote The Bloudy Tenant roughly a decade later while he was in England fighting to secure a charter for his newly founded colony in Rhode Island. www.goodreads.com/book/show/2496189.The_Complete_Writings_of_Roger_Williams_Volume_3
Spinoza did not ATTACK the religious authority of his time, he just disagreed with it. BIG difference.
But didnt he basically say that there is no need for any religious authority because everybody can understand the scripture and should be allowed to formulate an own opinion on it?
What do you mean by ‘the scripture’? Spinoza was a revolutionary because he rejected all religious authority, regardless of the religion or scriptures.
Please. Spinoza uses a lot of fighting language in the Ethics and in his letters where traditional beliefs are concerned, especially in the areas of miracles, biblical law, anthropomorphism and theodicy. He did more than just disagree. In fact, in his early twenties, he would walk around Amsterdam and pick arguments with yeshiva students and mock certain features of Jewish belief and practice. As he got older, he matured. But at one time, he was openly antagonistic.
The think he got sick of the interviewer keep bringing up islam lol, he didn't want to be canceled for being an islamophobe lol
Not laughing. What's wrong with Islam?
The guy seems to be very knowledgeable in history but not very much prepared in Christian and Islamic theology in order to undestand the internal motivations that make certain groups behave in certain ways
Let’s listen to a jewish man talk about the guy who renounced judaism. Great
What a dope you are. Spinoza never renounced Judaism. In fact, he penned an apologia defending his philosophy in light of the Torah and rabbinic literature. He was excommunicated, but never converted to Christianity despite the efforts of his Chistian friends. Spinoza was born a Jew, was educated as a Jew, and died a Jew. He was no longer observant, but a Jew notwithstanding. Know what you're talking about, please.
He fudges the intolerance of intolerance whilst. sidelining the issue of schools preaching hate
He may be a good scholar of Dutch history but he appears to be totally ignorant of Islam. Islam was never and cannot be a tolerant religion as long as Quran is treated as divine revelation.
To say that Europeans are or were ever tolerant is way off in my book..
The practice of statism is not really tolerant at all even today ..
The irony of asking a man named “Israel” about Spinoza
What do you mean by statism? There's quite a number of definitions of that term.
The hot blonde is getting restless, get to the point gents! 🤣
Simpel gezegd religie is bruikbaar om goed te doen en om kwaad te doen.
Met andere woorden het is menselijk niet goddelijk.
Dat is problematisch voor zij die willen onderdrukken door middel van religie.
Hogwash-
So, you are a Jew-hater.
The first half of the interview was great, but when he got into the political stuff it became incoherent.
interesting discussion but it reaches a unfortunate cul de sac , with the total success of liberal relativism the secular authority or "scientific" concensus becomes the new religious authority..........and so we have arrived - ok not so much a cul de sac but a little U shaped drive back to the main road.
10:00 -11:00 Wat zegt ie nou? Ik wilde eigenlijk zijn boeken kopen. Maar wat hij nu over de Islam zegt maakt hem een slechte leermeester en wat mij betreft een onbetrouwbare historicus. Toevallig heb ik me verdiept in de Islam en Bill Warner en Robert Spencer denken toch wat anders over tolerantie in de Islam.