It's thought-provoking because God supposedly killed all but 8 people, along with all but a few of each animal. Holding the idea in your head that this was done by an entity that doesn't overreact is what we call 'cognitive dissonance'.
@@ChrisFineganTunes it’s not an over reaction. Nothing God has done has ever been an over reaction. Throwing Adam and Eve out of the garden was not an over reaction. Burning Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground was not an over reaction. Killing every living creature but what God put on a boat was not an over reaction. Having animals sacrificed to take the punishment of your sin was not an over reaction. Having his son whipped, beat, spat upon, having nails drove through his feet and hands and then suffocated to death was not an over reaction. And when he comes back the judgement he brings will not be an over reaction.
@@theburlyburrito Any of those things carried out by another human would result in them being locked up for life (or given the death penalty in many places). These acts are psychopathically murderous.
It was really smart to add some shorter segments on your channel. You will continue to reach more people with thoughtful, edifying discussion. Been listening for a few years on my long commute.
Agreed, and sin is transgression of Torah (the Law of God) Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. Yoḥanan Aleph (1 John) 3:4
The last 20 seconds of this video! That was Gold. Thank you sir. I’ve started a channel where I teach the Bible simply, and simply teach The Bible. We need more of this.
Hey Mike, love the detail with which you approach Biblical answers to topics and questions you are asked. I would love to see an in-depth video on what the Bible and more specifically Jesus teaches on Hell. I have biblically literate friends who don’t believe that hell isn’t a reality experienced by anyone today (post cross). Sounds like universalist ideas. You talk about the linguistic meanings of hell (that Jesus used?) and would love to learn more about the full teaching!
@@lolaparra9389 You can't KNOW anything by faith. Nor can you have a personal relationship with a prophet who's been dead for thousands of years. That's just weird.
I like the fact everything is backed up with scripture. It’s just sad when others try and twist scripture to get out of stuff. To get out of doing right. It’s frustrating when people want to argue you, when the Word of God is so clear.
Okay instead of arguing, just a thought experiment. If Hell is the alternative for not believing in God, than it is not a choice to believe in God or not, but something we get forced into out of fear of eternal torment. If God is a good God, a God of Love and Grace and He wants us to choose Him out of our free will, how can you reconsile believing in eternal torment for unbelievers?
I would really be interested in watching a discussion with both of you on how you would present the concept of hell to someone who A) Believes but struggles with idea of a physical place such as this and then also B) Someone who refuses to believe because an idea of hell would be unacceptable!
That’s what’s difficult for us mere humans to understand, Hell isn’t a physical place. It’s for lack of better terminology, Hell is a spiritual dimension, a place for people’s souls to go. There’s no way our physical body’s can go there. It’s all unimportant to the gospel, the fact the Hell is a very real place not just some abstract thing, that is what’s important to the gospel message.
Simple. You take it or leave it. Like Jesus said. Let the dead bury their dead. You don’t want to believe then you will find ANY reason not too. Your choice and your consequences
I suggest watching American Gospel: Christ Crucified. It's the sequel to American Gospel: In Christ Alone, and Mike has a small part where he is interviewed on the topic of hell. The documentary explains hell very, very well and why it is justified.
Sin is unacceptable yet it is here. Hell was not made for us but for the fallen angels, who had utter glory yet abandoned it to sin. God didn't create us all so he could watch us Rebel, but so that he could have people that genuinely love him and want to serve him on their own free will, despite all the enticements of the contrary. The rest of humanity is thale tares of wheat. Useless, to be thrown out. Burned. God created us for a reason and while we cannot possibly understand it entirely, I think we can grasp with the idea that he wants to be loved and worshipped genuinely, not artificially.
Well done, Mike and Alisa! I listen to both of your channels. “Love The Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself! ALL of the Law and the Prophets, hang on these two commandments”. Matthew 22:37-40
Why Does Hell exist? Easy Because not-existing is not sufficiently scary to Frighten some people into Believing in God so the idea of Hell was invented
Additionally, Greek philosophy came into Judaism and Christianity. But yeah, the church made a lot of money with its doctrine of hell. The Bible actually clearly teaches the utter destruction of unbelievers.
You should do a study on on the times our apostle Paul taught on Hell. Since he was given the full and complete plan of God by the risen savior Christ, I am sure that would be quite a compilation of sermons. Can’t wait to tune in to those. Ill be listening for that notification bell. Thanks.
@@maylissbjerke9204 The odd thing is, progressive Christians usually de-emphasize the Apostle Paul and much of his writings in the Bible. 🤷♀ You know, they consider themselves the "Red Letter" Christians and all that. Christ's "Sermon on the Mount" (Matt. 5) is given ultimate place.
Wait a minute. Do you guys believe that hell is a geographical location? Hi! Progressive Christian here & I 100% agree with the actual quote that you actually quoted him. Hell & heaven are spiritual experiences that we taste in this life but can experience deeply in the afterlife. Hell is the absence of God. Sin is choosing anything that is not God. Hell is where we walk torward every time we don’t choose God. God doesn’t send us to hell. We choose it. Sin is bad. But progressives aren’t consumed with legalism & keeping a list of sins. We’re obsessed with healing through a loving God... cleaning the inside so that the outside might be clean. Cure the cause of sin & you’ll cure sin. The presence of God pushes out sin. Again. You really need to make this a dialogues with an actual progressive Christian. Because this isn’t beneficial.
If Hell is the alternative for not believing in God, than it is not a choice to believe in God or not, but something we get forced into out of fear of eternal torment. If God is a good God, a God of Love and Grace and He wants us to choose Him out of our free will, how can you reconsile believing in eternal torment for unbelievers?
@@SuperJgiu Hell is more so the punishment for everyone for our sin, that punishment stays on you if you're not reconciled back to God through Jesus, Christians deserve Hell too, but we believe jesus paid the price for us
@@Valthegal04 I was a christian myself so I do understand the doctrine of hell. But I'm wondering how you reconsile the belief that billions of humans are going to a place where they are eternally tormented with the belief of a good God? Moreover, how can you reconsile the belief of *eternal!!!* punishment for *finite!!!! * sin, with the belief of a just God? Do you think we should throw people who commited a crime of any kind into prison forever or do you think justice means to punish people according to their crime? I'm also wondering what you think, who Jesus saved you from? Right from God, which is himself according to some ancient scriptures
@@SuperJgiu It's less from God and more so from ourselves, sin has eternal consequences even outside of hell we can't always see it but it creates ripples and effects other people, God wouldn't be just it he didn't punish, there are billions that might go there, but there's also many that will be saved if they want it so, but most people don't want to be, or rather don't see themselves of need of saving, which perfectly describes the human condition, we think we're good but we really aren't. It may seem unjust to you but there's also gonna be levels to it, a common atheist isn't gonna be punished like hitler for example, anyone can be saved and God wants everyone to be. But if you don't want saving or don't care for it He isn't gonna force Himself on you or anyone else, no one goes to heaven to be with God when they don't even want anything to do with Him, it's the pain of free will. It may be finite sin in our eyes, but we weren't made to act this way in the first place, we chose to however, and now there's consequences for it unfortunately. We are either offered eternal life or eternal death and each person has the ability to seek God and will find Him. God's standard for how we act is always higher than the human one, it's the ultimate moral standard, and therefore there is greater punishment. Trust me God loves people more than people ever can, but not many people love God or His ways, and thus a never ending cycle of rebellion.
Hell in the Bible is your grave, the death of body and soul and inability of spending eternity with God, not a place of torture. All you need to do is research the words for hell and their true meaning.
I've heard eastern orthodox christians believe that hell is the torment of being near God without being justified to him. This is an interesting take, but o don't see the scriptural support for it, and bringing unjustified sinners closer to him doesn't seem to be in God's character. I think seperationism is more likely than that interpretation
Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright. Psalms 11:6-7 NKJV
Oh Mike that you would have a sit down conversaion with Tim Mackie on a whole host of issues. It could be a whole series. You two are my favorite TH-cam teachers!
This is totally off topic. You got enough pop filters on that microphone there brother LOL! Just teasing you man I love your videos a friend of mine who is a former worship leader that I served under at a Calvary chapel here in Dallas told me about you and I've been watching ever since
The metaphors paint a portrait of misery, remorse, & pain in a life separate from God. C.S Lewis’ book The Great Divorce gives a glimpse of what it means for people to reject God and live in their own personal hell.
I don't see a reason in Scripture for it to be a personal hell, what do you mean by that? All it really needs to be is an unpleasant place that is completely separate from heaven and cut off from God's presence.
@@dahelmang I don’t mean personal in the “Dante’s inferno” sense, but rather that going to hell (i.e. being away from God’s presence) is a decision that people will make on their own volition. The story and scope of scripture tells a much more complex and nuanced view of heaven and hell than the pop-culture one we think about, and it’s not something that a person can simply prooftext. But to give an example of where western culture might misunderstand hell, when Jesus mentions what is translated “hell” in Matt 5, he actually says Gehenna which is an earthly geographic location that had cultural significance to Israel. You may already know or have heard this, but I think it illustrates the point that we take for granted English translators have taken interpretive liberties that aren’t always helpful. There is something deeper than just a location that Jesus is pointing to, it’s an idea that is also a spiritual reality. But we only come to a deeper understanding if we do the hard work of study and sympathizing with the author’s worldview rather than importing our own inherited assumptions about hell (and heaven).
@@austinlovelace2779 I think it doesn't help that the people saying that are usually trying to deny the obvious implications. But yeah we make it too simple in reaction to them.
"We have to be resurrected into new bodies to get there". In the New Age (I don't subscribe to this label, but I think that's how this will be perceived) this is exactly the belief. Through the expansion of consciousness, we raise our vibration, or our "light/energy" bodies. In doing so, perception shifts and 'heaven' is the perceived reality. In contrast, low vibrational energy bodies perceive a 'hell' reality. You can be looking at the same situation with the same pair of eyes, but based on your level of consciousness, your perception will be drastically different. This understanding was illustrated in The Hawkins Scale, in Dr. David R. Hawkins book, A Map of of Consciousness. It's a fascinating parallel, from my perspective. I enjoy listening to your videos Mike ❤️
If the rich man from the story of the rich man and Lazarus could speak to us, I wonder what he would tell us about his pain. Oh wait! He did mention an unquenchable thirst and torment. That sounds like a literal hell to me
@@discipledesigned Disagree. Parables do not reference names. In the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man , names, places and Father Abraham are mentioned , this is an actual story that happened.
@@joshuanun5317 also, it begins with the same “there was” which is found in all of the other parables. Also Christ Himself said He never spoke to the crowds unless it was in parables. He is speaking to a crowd in this passage. God bless.
Ok so I haven't watched the vid yet, but wanted to say that the best understanding of hell I have heard yet is based on the verse "If I go down to sheol You are there" and the idea that when souls are in hell, it is actually not physical separation from God's love.. its being surrounded by it day and night and these souls not being able to accept or receive it. The lake of fire for the devil and the fallen angels is different and isn't intended for souls.
Correct, except after the resurrection, when we go to judgment, that's when you're either granted eternal life, or to be cast into gehenna (lake of fire)
There's no word hell in the Scriptures. It came from pagans from the time of Israel. In the old covenant when they died believers and unbelievers they knew they went to *sheol* ie Hades or the abode of the dead. Mike should go through the Scriptures to find the truth.
@@menknurlan The word "hell" has been used in place of "sheol", "grave", "pit", "tartarus", "hades", "gehenna" and "lake of fire". By conflating them all, people don't know the difference, and there is a big difference.
bible project i noticed have a really twisted view of Hell. i used to watch there videos and hoped they would be a great source but to much false teaching.
I’m somewhat familiar with the Bible Project, but not sure I’ve seen their video about Hell, I will go look for it, but I’m interested to know more about what you saw as false teaching about Hell. This has been a challenging thing to discuss with several of my grown kids, and I find that this is actually one of many things I accepted at face value, when I first accepted Jesus as my Savior. So, I am tying to learn more, and make sure that I understand and am assured of the absolute truth of God, and can better discuss things like this difficult topic, in an attempt to see my kids return to what we have tried to bring them up to believe. They want to get into over my head philosophical discussions, and as I said, things that I have always accepted, even if I haven’t always like it or completely understood it, I have thought that God knows more about what He’s doing than me, and so I accept what the Bible says. I am continually trying to learn and better understand the Bible, and this is one of the topics that I want to better understand. I’d really like to know your thoughts about Hell. Thank you : )
@@colinmatts I can agree with you there. I don't believe in hell, at least not how the creator of this video does. So, pretty sure we are on the same side here.
@@jasonspencer8558 How can you not believe in hell when the Bible clearly and painfully teaches it, there's no need for a deep study if the Bible clearly teaches it
@@JasonLewis544 Wrong. By making that statement, you are ignoring the original languages, the history of interpretation, and the discussion of this topic for the last 2000 years. I'm sure you've read all sorts of books from various perspectives, right? Or did you just accept what you were fed?
Hell is annihilation. The wicked will be judged and perish and disappear.
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Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Mat 8:29 And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
The rich man and Lazarus was a parable, rev 20:10 explicitly says the devil and his angels are the receptive of the predicate “tormented forever and ever” not humans. Humans are mortal, always have been. This is why the gift of God is eternal life. If we were immortal, we wouldn’t need the gift of eternal life. The wages of sin is death- not eternal torment. The lake of fire for humans is known as the second death. Eternal punishment meaning the consequences of that punishment- death, will be eternal.
as far as I understand, God created and sustains all... hell is being separate from God... no longer sustained... not everlasting life... but not sure everlasting death applies or what that would be... just not my preferance for myself unless it brings Glory to YHWH(God) in some way.
Spong: I don’t think Hell exists. I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it’s got a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in a guilt-producing control business. And if you have Heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for you goodness, and Hell is a place where you’re punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the Hell out of a lot of people, throughout Christian history. And it’s part of a control tactic. Morrison: But wait a minute. You’re saying that Hell, the idea of a place under the earth or somewhere you’re tormented for an eternity - is actually an invention of the church? Spong: I think the church fired its furnaces hotter than anybody else. But I think there’s a sense in most religious life of reward and punishment in some form. The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. People don’t need to be born again. They need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world. Morrison: What do you make of the theology which is pretty quite prominent these days in America, which is there is one guaranteed way not to go to hell; and that is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. Spong: Yeah, I grew up in that tradition. Every church I know claims that ‘we are the true church’ - that they have some ultimate authority, ‘We have the infallible Pope,’ ‘We have the Bible.’… The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination for me. I mean, God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition. But I don’t think my tradition defines God. It only points me to God.
How can I get ride of temptation. Because when I sin there is already a mindset in me that already knows that the action is not worth it and I am even more happy without it. The only thing that trips me up is the Fals assumption that I want to to the sin.
We will never get rid of temptation but we can fight it by praying and reading the word of God and building our relationship with God constantly and do whatever you can to avoid things that could cause you to give in to temptation. My favorite verse in a time like that is read this verse: No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. I Corinthians 10:13 NKJV
To know God’s love is to also know we are being saved from God’s righteous justice: separation from His grace, mercy, and love... aka -Lake of Fire. -Eternal Punishment. -Torment. -Outer darkness. -Weeping and gnashing of teeth. -Where the worm does not die. Repent, believe, & rejoice in our Savior!
1. ALL have sinned. “for *all have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:12 ESV 2. Jesus came into the world to save sinners. *"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"* 1 Timothy 1:15 KJV Conclusion: If Jesus came to save sinners and all have sinned, *Jesus came to save all.* Are you suggesting he failed? Hell is a pagan teaching, and passing His children through the fire is not something YHWH God would even think of, said the prophet Jeremiah.
@@zachariah7114 with love and respect, are you saying we should just ignore all of the many warnings of Hell? For example: Jesus’ words “...it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire” you interpret that as...? Side topic: I ask politely... do you also deny the Trinity because many who deny Hell often have a heterodox view of Jesus. I agree that all have sinned and are w/o excuse. But justice must be served by a holy and righteous judge. What does justice look like to an unbeliever in your view?
@@jasonspencer8558 respectfully disagree because I deserve all those things. I have broken God’s laws willfully and continually more times than I can count. A God who is just, holy, and righteous cannot leave my sin unpunished or he is none of those attributes and thus no longer good. He has provided a way for my sins to be atoned for by sending Jesus to die in my place. The Bible says all are w/o excuse therefore the abusive father remark cannot be supported. It is only through the grace of God that I have been saved. May I ask what you believe happens to those who die in their sins? Do you believe annihilationism, universalism, or something else? Just curious.
@@Foreknown_ I am a Christian Universalist. I believe that God has the will to save all to a knowledge of himself, and therefore it will be done, as promised in Scripture many times. You are welcome to feel like you deserve punishment, but Jesus came to reveal God as Savior, not tormenter. God is Love, and any of his other character traits are 100% subservient to Love. Want to know the characteristics of Love? Ask Paul.
So today I've been attacked in my belief in Jesus. People claiming that those who believe that Jesus is God is sending me to hell. That only by leaving a sinless life and by our works are we saved. What would you say to this?
I've had someone say hell dsnt exist religion has made it up to scare you into submission and how they know is you can't burn the spirit. Its wild what people think right now claiming to be Christian
As someone who identifies as a progressive Christian, I have to say that I disagree with many of the 23 "Ragamuffin claims". I reckon that Ragamuffin TV misrepresents progressive Christians just as much as he (they?) misunderstands conservative Christians.
@@JasonLewis544 < It's difficult to know whether you are joking or not. If you are not joking, then you have fallen at the first hurdle. As a progressive Christian, the whole idea that any random Christian (including myself) would somehow possess "the truth" is absurd. As a progressive Christian, one of the things I am very suspicious of is the idea of received dogma. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe anything just because it is dogma. (Philippians 2:12 ) Don't get me wrong, I do believe in absolute truth; I just don't believe that either of us possess much of it. Life as a Christian is a walk, and on that walk we are nourished and pruned by Christ. The idea that any of us have arrived at "the truth" at any time before the resurrection is blasphemy. There are many things that I believe that are also considered dogma; many of the ancient creeds for example. But I don't believe them because they are dogma. I believe them because I have been convinced of them by scripture, by discussion, and by prayer. The "new evangelical dogmas" are even less to be trusted. The most extreme example is that we must vote for the party that will make abortion illegal. I'm an extreme pro-lifer, this is one of the most complex issues in modern Christian life, especially in the USA. It's not as simple as voting for a party based on this one policy; even if abortion is the only issue you care about. If you had suggested that "As a progressive what do you believe compared to others. I'd love to discuss our faith in Christ together, to help us both see the truth more clearly", I would have been quite interested. But the idea that you reckon you could somehow unilaterally "help me see the truth" makes you an arrogant fool. But maybe you were joking. In which case, mildly amusing.
@agiflow Yes, all fell short of the Glory of God and so he sent Jesus that we may be saved without which we would be doomed, but hell was not originally meant for us but for the truly wicked, the devil, demons, and those who practice the devil's ways. People are not sent to hell because it was meant for them (I'm not saying they are not deserving of it) or God hates them, but because they chose hell over God (still baffled as to why). Those who hell is truly meant for are the people you never want to meet. I was not talking about the average person.
The Fathers tell us that we are allowed to hope hell is empty. But having hope is different then saying hell doesn’t exist. I think progressives don’t think about how evil people can be.
As a Roman Catholic I see the Pope kind of like American presidents. Popes are figureheads in a line of succession all the way back to Peter. As with presidents some are better than others, and can give statements that may or may not be in line with the church as a whole. Keep up the good work Mike!!
What about the Catholic Church's teaching about whenever a Pope speaks on matters of faith or morals, that he is infallible? If the Pope is "infallible," then how in the world can he and his church be at odds?? 🤔🤷♀
This is really just more of that Heaven or hell is just a state of mind. This is just a metaphor for how your thinking affects your well-being. We use this because of the biblical concepts, and putting forth this idea of Heaven & hell is really circular thinking.
@Light4you John 3:16 (NKJV) “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Because we lost perfection when Adam CHOSE to sin in the Garden. He only had ONE rule to follow and he broke it, knowingly and willingly. So all of us are born in God's image (spirit) but with the sin NATURE. We still have to choose every day whether to go against God's Will or not. Willful disobedience is sin. God made the world, so He gets to make the rules. "The wages of sin is death." "All have sinned and come short...." But God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish.
@@watchgoose Weren’t they seduced by Satan? I know we are sinners. I don’t understand why God loves us so much on one hand, but on the other hand he would punish us for all eternity. „Choose me lovingly, because otherwise I am throwing you in a lake of fire.“
@@thomasw1865 I mean I’m a Christian and even I have a hard time trying to wrap my head around it but I’m not God and I don’t make the rules id rather just accept his offer of eternal life and heaven seems like a pretty sweet deal to me but that’s just me though
@@davidordaz5251 thanks David. That’s at least an answer without a phrase or something :) I am a christian, too. But I kinda look the atheist view on this, and think as a non believer, I would really really have a hard time to be attracted to a religion, which offers so much...but threatens so much, too
In the end, it is our free will to whether we accept God or not. I would not portray God as a being who enjoys giving pain. It is our decision to follow him and if we chose to not, we will go to a place where there isn't any of His presence which is Hell.
Well JESUS said both are real locations. Not just states of mind. He even said it was instant at the point of death, not waiting. He told the thief on the right side of the Cross, “ Today you will be with Me in Paradise”. (And Paradise is translated as Heaven, a place JESUS was going at death.) ...I’m going with what Jesus said.
That is not what he said, and Jesus did not go to Heaven at Death. He ascended into Sheol (Death) before he was resurrected, THEN when he left the Earth he went to Heaven. No where in Scripture does it state Jesus was in Heaven during those three days, nor is it slightly implied. The meaning of Christ's words to the thief on the Cross were changed with a COMMA. "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise" should read “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise" He was promising the thief would be with him in the New Kingdom/Paradise. NOT HEAVEN. And not on that day. Jesus really died! He had to be raised. Nowhere in the Bible are you promised to go to Heaven when you die. Nowhere is it even remotely implied. Quote me Scripture... You misunderstand what he said Beth.
here is a question to anyone willing to answer. As a christian who reads the bible its pretty clear that hell is a real place according to God but Im starting to entertain the idea now that hell isnt eternal torment like so many believe but rather where God destroys the soul for good. The second death. The only time hell gets mentioned as eternal torment is in revelation when the bible says satan and the beast will be there forever and ever. Every other context in the bible its mentioned as a place where souls get destroyed. If im heading towards a lie can someone save me? im on the fence on this issue
Describing hell is quite a difficult task. A believer that has communion with God should be quite familiar with the feeling of loosing this communion. Hell is worse then that. In my opinion it is similar to a person that will have no communion with human beings, nevertheless with God as his prayers hit the literal ceiling. By ceiling I am referring to the chasm that Jesus mentions in Luke16 in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. God bless you Mike
upon the wicked he will rain coals; fire and brimstone and a burning wind shall be the portion of their cup. for the lord is righteous, he loves righteousness; his countenance beholds the upright. psalms 11:6-7 nkjv pretty simple and very sobering
@@JasonLewis544 The burning wind reminds me of the poem “Dolce Decorum by Wildred Owen Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind. Gas! GAS!”
If heaven and hell are just states of mind and not geographical places, what does that mean? Does everyone just continue laying in their casket either in a conscious state of torment or state of peace?
Take away the Threats the Fears and Judgements from this Religion, and the Religion will lose its power its influence and its control eventually its followers 😊
Under our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross ,shed His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
If/when we awake to the afterlife we will know instantly how we responded to the Almighty during our earthly life...as in I believed and acted or didn't and remained rebellious or flat unbelieving...
Genesis verses 3-4 Wasn't it always about death, since the original sin? "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." Satan, "Eat it, Eve, YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE." [you will live in hell forever] traditional hell = believing the first lie of Satan himself, plainly shown in the word of God, from the very start.
A catholic priest once told me that heaven was a state of mind and not a physical place. I am an atheist now and I still find the idea of a state of mind comforting. I believe when you are dead that you are beyond experiencing anything. It's oblivion. That's not a bad state of mind.
If it was a state of mind then our body's wouldn't be ressurected at the rapture so the priest point was unbiblical. Also as an athiest could you please tell me why you fell to the deceptions of the devil and why you believe athiesm is the truth?
@@JasonLewis544 How do you KNOW your decomposed body will be resurrected at the rapture? I did not fall to any deceptions. I don't believe in a DEVIL. I simply outgrew the religion I was raised with and was unconvinced by the claims of other religions. Atheism does not make any truth claims. It is simply the label given to people who lack belief in a God.
@@colinmatts And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40 NKJV Athiesm is absolutely scientifically impossible, nothing can't create everything and a book can't write itself, remember scientists call DNA the blueprint of life. Athiesm was made up so some man could find an excuse for their sinful desires and excuse them because with no God there is no moral standard only what society's moral standard is.
Hell is death or the grave it is not a place. The lake of fire has HELL thrown into it as well as DEATH... Hell is no eternal place of torture. That is Greek paganism not Judaism or Christianity.
Jesus body after the crucifiction went to the grave, aka Hades. Jesus' spirit went to Sheol (aka Abraham's Bosom), to Hell aka Tartarus/the Abyss, and also temporarily to heaven. Jesus went to Sheol aka Abraham's Bosom to deliver/preach to those OT saints held captive and take them to the Father in heaven. He also went to Hell/the Abyss to deliver a message to the Watchers chained in darkness there, "I have defeated death. You shall have no peace." Scripture effectively tells us that Jesus took the keys of the locked gates of the city of Sheol from Satan because Jesus took authority over death because he defeated it through the resurrection. Jesus will also be given full authority over the Nations upon His Second Coming. Jesus' reason for stopping by Hell was to see the Watcher's and deliver a reply to their message (delivered by Enoch to God centuries before Jesus' death.) The 1st book of Enoch says the Watchers wanted release from the Abyss, aka Hell in exchange would be a pledge of loyalty to GOD and return to their former station, aka abode. Jesus' message was, "You shall have no peace. I have defeated death and your sentence is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, the rest of the Fallen who fell at Babylon and those deceased disembodied spirits (demons) of the Nephilim and Raiphate, aka Men of Reknown." "I now hold the keys of Sheol because I defeated death with the help of My Father. I am resurrected with the aid of my Father and will return to the Father after my resurrection and sit on the Mercy Seat and will judge at my Second Coming and after the Millennium is done at the Great White Throne Judgment. Your sentence will be carried out in the Lake of Fire. You will have the company of the spirits of deceased human apostates and unbelievers there for all eternity." Jesus' appeared to many at the same time after his resurrection, why then is it not possible for him to be in the grave, Sheol, Hell, and heaven at the same time? God is outside time...that is what is meant by HIM being omnipresent, omnipotent. The Trinity is also Sovereign. GOD limits what the evil ones are allowed to do in our lives and the world. Jesus took all our sins, past, present, and future upon himself and paid for them on the cross. Our faith in Jesus as the Messiah and His completed work on the cross is our salvation. Death is what we inherited through Adam, but through faith in Jesus as the Messiah we are saved, so that no man can boast in keeping God's Moral Law. No man had ever kept the Law, but Jesus. The law is a personal guideline to see our progress in our walk with God. Faith in Jesus as the Messiah is important. Why? Some people believe that Jesus was a man in history and that he was a prophet, but many more people living or dead believe that Jesus is the Messiah, our Lord and Savior. Those that believe Jesus was the Son of God will inherit eternal life. Messianic Jews and Christians know their Messiah well and their Shepherd knows them well.
Hell isn't eternal damnation according to Greek and Hebrew but rather a " land of the barren and the dead ". It's not a place you go to be tortured eternally. Instead just a place void of God. And we don't even know how long that experience lasts because the Jews never used words like eternity. Furthermore, in early scripture they used the word " beyond what can be seen ' or " behind the horizon" which was then translated to eternity.... A poor translation. Imo. Maybe hell simply means to cease to exist. To perish. To disappear and be turned away from God forever. I think the fire metaphor isn't used to describe the sensation of what it feels like but rather to emphasize it's severity. The severity of sin.
Are we sure that human souls are automatically eternal? God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they couldn’t eat from the tree of life. On Judgement Day Jesus will allow His followers to eat from the tree of life. Maybe people who reject Jesus go to “the second death” meaning they cease to exist. After all hell was created for the fallen angels - not for humans.
In Hinduism we have "lokas" which are places gods and beings exist. The holy books talk about them as literal places - like hell and heaven (which would be two of many lokas). Some of these places you can see, some we can't, some look like earth, some don't. Its become very very commonplace now to say its all figurative, and they are just states of consciousness. So, when I saw they are doing the same with Christianity - I laughed! This has been debunked by many in Hinduism, as the moment you say they are not physical so many of the texts fail to make sense. This is a very new age influenced point of view. On the other hand, hell, heaven, lokas might be physical locations that can be used metaphorically. No reason why you can't have both methaphor and literal.
Jesus is exclusively the Savior but *believers aren’t exclusively the saved…* at least according to the Apostle Paul in his first letter to Timothy. He writes: “For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, *who is the Savior of all people,* especially of those who believe.” 1 Timothy 4:10 ESV *Especially never means exclusively.* Paul plainly says that God is the Savor of believers *and* unbelievers, but the Savior of believers in a special sense because they already know Him and experience His redemption, and testify of it. (God is the Savior of believers in this special sense because they are “his witnesses” like it says in Isaiah 43:10-11 understanding that there is no Savior but the living God.) The Weymouth translation especially brings out the meaning of this verse. It reads: “and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, *who is the Saviour of all mankind,* and especially of believers.” The word translated as "people" in the ESV and "mankind" in the Weymouth is 'anthropos' and mankind is actually a more accurate translation. Greek New Testament scholar Kenneth Wuest who writes, "There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male INDIVIDUAL of the human race, and *anthrōpos,* which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of *'mankind'* " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).] Jesus is the Savior of Mankind, and his death, burial and resurrection were for the whole human race, not a select few. “For there is one God, and one mediator *between God and men,* the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” 1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV The same word used in 1 Timothy 4:10 for *men (anthrōpos)* is used here, meaning Paul is talking about how *mankind as a whole is represented by Christ, while Christ himself represents God to that same whole of humanity.* If Paul wanted to say men as a broad but still limited and numbered group of men, he would have used the word anēr as this word talks about individuals of the human race… but Paul didn’t use that word, he used anthrōpos. We see the word anēr used to refer to a multitude in the Gospel of Matthew, for example, when describing the five thousand men fed by Christ. So to recap, *in 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 4:10, Paul says that God is the Savior of the entire human race, and that Jesus is the mediator between God and MANKIND.* His use of the word anthrōpos instead of the word anēr indicates Paul understood God to be more than the Savior of some men, and Christ to be more than the mediator between God and some men. Paul saw Christ’s work on the Cross as God’s act of love towards *the whole human race.*
Can we please get some comments on this to start a discussion? This is a very interesting take. Notice how people flock to comments that are easy for them to dismiss with straw man arguments, but a well thought-out and backed-up post like this requires a lot deeper thought and knowledgeable sources in order to take a reasonable stance against; hence nobody dares to comment and be forced to prove themselves right rather than simply proving another wrong.
Interesting take indeed. Yet how does this square with John 3:16 and other related passages that talk about believing and confessing Christ? Once dead, judgment comes - Heb 9:27
@@lizicadumitru9683 fair questions but hope doesn’t end at death (and Hebrews 9:27 doesn’t say that we are judged immediately following our own moments of deaths, I understand it to mean the Resurrection) All that said, without confessing Christ one will not experience salvation and God... luckily the NT says ALL will confess... Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess “Turn to me and be saved, *all you ends of the earth;* for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: *Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’ ” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.”* Isaiah 45:22-24 NIV “at the name of Jesus *every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”* Philippians 2:10-11 ESV “if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, *you will be saved.* For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” Romans 10:9-10 ESV The most important part of Philippians 2:10-11 is that *all of this is done to the glory of God the Father.* And we also know from the prophet Ezekiel that God takes NO pleasure in the deaths of the wicked. How will He take glory from their eternal torture or destruction either? If every tongue will confess, *every tongue will be saved.* If every heart will believe, *every heart will be saved.* And if every knee will bow, *every knee will be saved.*
@@zachariah7114 Great points, I'll have to look closer at the Isaiah passage's context. Like, does it speak of genuine confession or just an admission of the truth? As for hope after death, not 100% that scripture teaches that seeing how the great commission and evangelism is set in the realm of the living. Can conversion come after death? Depends on your theology of death I suppose. I just don't see scripture alluding to born again status after death beside that one obscure passage in Peter's epistle about Christ preaching to the spirits in "prison." Awesome topic for sure and I'd like nothing more than your position to be true. I just don't see it spelled out clearly in scripture.
what do you think about the idea from case for faith that jp morland has that hell is more like a prison cell and that the flames are metaphores for being emotionaly in pain seperated from GOD but still seeing HIM and everyone in heven?
@@gradystein5765 wait no i see what your saying. pepol tend to try to get out of hard things to see as moral in the Bible by dismissing them as metaphores?
Well according to, Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright. Psalms 11:6-7 NKJV That's not right
My interpretation of Hell (which could be completely wrong) is that it is eternal separation from God. We were created to be with God then man fell and we were sentenced to not only separation here on Earth but even separation after death, a true spiritual death, which to me is already awful. I can't imagine being eternally separated from the 1 thing you were created for. I thank God that he loved us and sent Christ to restore the original design. Now we have fellowship with God through Christ but also have fellowship with each other through his church. I am not saying my belief is correct, there absolutely could be other punishment outside of spiritual death and separation from God but because of Christ I have no fear of finding out what is really out there.
The rich man opened his eyes in hell. He didn’t open his eyes and felt separated from God. Also a no hell doesn’t allow u to realize that you are sinner headed to hell and in need of a savior. If there is no hell to be saved from then need of salvation. Dangerous doctrine and ignorance of what the Bible teaches is why the this verse applies: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
@@noles9998 I mean amen, I agree with you and what this verse is saying. However, until I have a revelation from the Lord on what exactly Hell consists of then I will fully say I have no idea. To me personally eternity of knowing I am separated from the God who created me and my redeemer who loved me despite my sin would be the worse punishment I can imagine. My belief isn't that those who live in this "hell" don't ever wake up and realize what they are separated from. I believe the opposite, they are fully aware of what they have missed and are now stuck living in isolations, separated from the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
@@masonjones3427 the bible is very clear on hell no need to guess, the wicked and all sin will be destroyed in the lake of fire and notice my words carefully destroyed meaning the results of the flames or punishment is forever, no one is burning forever as many like to claim yet have no scriptural support
@@masonjones3427 the rich man literally screams father Abraham let Lazarus dip his finger in water and put on my tongue cause I’m in torment. There is your revelation from the Lord, it doesn’t get any clearer. If that is a symbolic meaning or a parable what is it a parable of? Lol How bout don’t fear man who can only kill the body but rather fear him who can kill the body and cast body and soul in hell.
@@noles9998 That parable is about the unbelieving leaders who EVEN IF A DEAD MAN CAME TO THEM THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE. "The rich man said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 He replied to him, ‘If they do not respond to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." They didn't believe Christ when he was alive, the wouldn't believe him after he rose from the dead.
Imagine claiming that people are trying to reinvent Christianity when the Bible you read isn't even close to the original texts. Hell was never mentioned in the original texts, the concept didn't even exist until nearly 400 years after Jesus.
God definitely overreacts. Eternal torture for finite 'crimes'? If any humans acted in the way God is supposed to have acted we would call them mass-murderers, psychopaths and genocidal maniacs. You just give God a free pass because you believe he made everything and therefore gets to do whatever he wants. Might = Right
@@MikeWinger It's not that I think you said this. I probably have misrepresented your opinion on why it's OK for God to allow people to be tortured for eternity or why it's OK for God to commit genocide. I'm sure your position will be much more nuanced than the way I've said it so I hold my hands up for that. I just don't see a way that it can be justified.
@@lizicadumitru9683 as it happens, I agree. Most of our ideas about hell are from Dante's Inferno and not from the Bible. An awful lot of Christians fully subscribe to the 'eternal torture' idea. You don't. Great.. I'm trying to disabuse the other Christians of this destructive notion.
Okay so we have to remember that the Catholic church is a mixture of all pagan religions and Christianity.. they're basically the iron mixing with clay.. we also have to realize what certain translations mean. For example hell in Hebrew is sheol which means the grave or the covering or the pit.. this is why King David said he will make his bed in hell / sheol.. we all go to the grave. But hell fire is different. Hellfire is reserved for judgment after the day of the Lord/when Christ returns.remember Sodom and Gomorrah are set forth as an example on what judgment will be like. God will reign fire and brimstone from heaven consuming the entire Earth until the wicked burn and they are ashes beneath our feet.. then the restart will happen. People are not burning in hell at the momentcuz they are asleep in the grave awaiting for the Lord's return.then the dead in Christ shall rise first and the ones who are alive and remain will be caught up. As for everyone else they will rise after the thousand year reign in heaven to be judged.
"God doesn't overreact." That's a thought provoking sentence.
It's thought-provoking because God supposedly killed all but 8 people, along with all but a few of each animal. Holding the idea in your head that this was done by an entity that doesn't overreact is what we call 'cognitive dissonance'.
@@ChrisFineganTunes it’s not an over reaction. Nothing God has done has ever been an over reaction. Throwing Adam and Eve out of the garden was not an over reaction. Burning Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground was not an over reaction. Killing every living creature but what God put on a boat was not an over reaction. Having animals sacrificed to take the punishment of your sin was not an over reaction. Having his son whipped, beat, spat upon, having nails drove through his feet and hands and then suffocated to death was not an over reaction. And when he comes back the judgement he brings will not be an over reaction.
@@theburlyburrito
Any of those things carried out by another human would result in them being locked up for life (or given the death penalty in many places).
These acts are psychopathically murderous.
@@ChrisFineganTunes So you don't think God should intervene when wickedness occurs?
@@ChrisFineganTunes Are we talking about a human? No, we’re talking about the creator of everything in existence. He is the perfect Judge.
Continue doing the good work
It was really smart to add some shorter segments on your channel. You will continue to reach more people with thoughtful, edifying discussion. Been listening for a few years on my long commute.
“If hell is bad, then sin must be *really* bad”
Agreed, and sin is transgression of Torah (the Law of God)
Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Yoḥanan Aleph (1 John) 3:4
Hey Mike! Thanks for your videos.
The last 20 seconds of this video! That was Gold. Thank you sir. I’ve started a channel where I teach the Bible simply, and simply teach The Bible. We need more of this.
Hey Mike, love the detail with which you approach Biblical answers to topics and questions you are asked.
I would love to see an in-depth video on what the Bible and more specifically Jesus teaches on Hell. I have biblically literate friends who don’t believe that hell isn’t a reality experienced by anyone today (post cross). Sounds like universalist ideas. You talk about the linguistic meanings of hell (that Jesus used?) and would love to learn more about the full teaching!
Bottom line there is no way to deconstruct hell.Hell is a real unpleasant (bad) place to end up...
And you know this, how?
@@colinmatts It’s a matter of accepting the authority of the Bible by faith and having a personal relationship with Jesus by Grace.Peace to you...
@@lolaparra9389 You can't KNOW anything by faith. Nor can you have a personal relationship with a prophet who's been dead for thousands of years. That's just weird.
@@colinmatts You don’t understand what I understand.Jesus is alive and well.Jesus is God.Surprisingly one day you will see him coming back.
@@lolaparra9389 Jesus said he was coming back 2000 years ago. People have spent lifetimes waiting. He's dead. Move on
I like the fact everything is backed up with scripture. It’s just sad when others try and twist scripture to get out of stuff. To get out of doing right. It’s frustrating when people want to argue you, when the Word of God is so clear.
Okay instead of arguing, just a thought experiment. If Hell is the alternative for not believing in God, than it is not a choice to believe in God or not, but something we get forced into out of fear of eternal torment. If God is a good God, a God of Love and Grace and He wants us to choose Him out of our free will, how can you reconsile believing in eternal torment for unbelievers?
BeautyBeliever, i can show you much more biblical back up to refuse this point of view.
I found this new channel it's amazing thanks pastor Mike
God is truly using you to advance his Kingdom brother. Keep it up ❤️💪🏽
I would really be interested in watching a discussion with both of you on how you would present the concept of hell to someone who A) Believes but struggles with idea of a physical place such as this and then also B) Someone who refuses to believe because an idea of hell would be unacceptable!
That’s what’s difficult for us mere humans to understand, Hell isn’t a physical place. It’s for lack of better terminology, Hell is a spiritual dimension, a place for people’s souls to go. There’s no way our physical body’s can go there.
It’s all unimportant to the gospel, the fact the Hell is a very real place not just some abstract thing, that is what’s important to the gospel message.
Simple. You take it or leave it. Like Jesus said. Let the dead bury their dead. You don’t want to believe then you will find ANY reason not too. Your choice and your consequences
I suggest watching American Gospel: Christ Crucified. It's the sequel to American Gospel: In Christ Alone, and Mike has a small part where he is interviewed on the topic of hell. The documentary explains hell very, very well and why it is justified.
Sin is unacceptable yet it is here. Hell was not made for us but for the fallen angels, who had utter glory yet abandoned it to sin.
God didn't create us all so he could watch us Rebel, but so that he could have people that genuinely love him and want to serve him on their own free will, despite all the enticements of the contrary.
The rest of humanity is thale tares of wheat. Useless, to be thrown out. Burned.
God created us for a reason and while we cannot possibly understand it entirely, I think we can grasp with the idea that he wants to be loved and worshipped genuinely, not artificially.
"The deepest darkest circle of Perdition is reserved for those who do not believe in Perdition." >_
So thankful for you both!! Keep preaching The Truth! Thank you both for your obedience!!! May God richly bless you both.
Well done, Mike and Alisa! I listen to both of your channels. “Love The Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself! ALL of the Law and the Prophets, hang on these two commandments”. Matthew 22:37-40
Another great video from Mike Winger! Keep up the good work.
Mike I love the way you explain
God bless you ❤️
Very good series,you both do a great job, God bless :-)
Why Does Hell exist? Easy Because not-existing is not sufficiently scary to Frighten some people into Believing in God so the idea of Hell was invented
Additionally, Greek philosophy came into Judaism and Christianity. But yeah, the church made a lot of money with its doctrine of hell.
The Bible actually clearly teaches the utter destruction of unbelievers.
You should do a study on on the times our apostle Paul taught on Hell. Since he was given the full and complete plan of God by the risen savior Christ, I am sure that would be quite a compilation of sermons. Can’t wait to tune in to those. Ill be listening for that notification bell. Thanks.
You will not find hell once in pauls writings. Because its not good news and its a lie and its evil. 💟
@@maylissbjerke9204 The odd thing is, progressive Christians usually de-emphasize the Apostle Paul and much of his writings in the Bible. 🤷♀ You know, they consider themselves the "Red Letter" Christians and all that. Christ's "Sermon on the Mount" (Matt. 5) is given ultimate place.
Wait a minute. Do you guys believe that hell is a geographical location?
Hi! Progressive Christian here & I 100% agree with the actual quote that you actually quoted him. Hell & heaven are spiritual experiences that we taste in this life but can experience deeply in the afterlife. Hell is the absence of God. Sin is choosing anything that is not God. Hell is where we walk torward every time we don’t choose God. God doesn’t send us to hell. We choose it. Sin is bad. But progressives aren’t consumed with legalism & keeping a list of sins. We’re obsessed with healing through a loving God... cleaning the inside so that the outside might be clean. Cure the cause of sin & you’ll cure sin. The presence of God pushes out sin.
Again. You really need to make this a dialogues with an actual progressive Christian. Because this isn’t beneficial.
@@bekahleah574 Yep. Every day. About 3 times a day.
Do you believe hell entails eternal suffering?
Thank you for this. Easing the mind in this life by saying Hell isn't a real place is dangerous, of course. I did that.. Thank you for your videos.
If Hell is the alternative for not believing in God, than it is not a choice to believe in God or not, but something we get forced into out of fear of eternal torment. If God is a good God, a God of Love and Grace and He wants us to choose Him out of our free will, how can you reconsile believing in eternal torment for unbelievers?
@@SuperJgiu Hell is more so the punishment for everyone for our sin, that punishment stays on you if you're not reconciled back to God through Jesus, Christians deserve Hell too, but we believe jesus paid the price for us
@@Valthegal04 I was a christian myself so I do understand the doctrine of hell. But I'm wondering how you reconsile the belief that billions of humans are going to a place where they are eternally tormented with the belief of a good God? Moreover, how can you reconsile the belief of *eternal!!!* punishment for *finite!!!! * sin, with the belief of a just God? Do you think we should throw people who commited a crime of any kind into prison forever or do you think justice means to punish people according to their crime? I'm also wondering what you think, who Jesus saved you from? Right from God, which is himself according to some ancient scriptures
@@SuperJgiu It's less from God and more so from ourselves, sin has eternal consequences even outside of hell we can't always see it but it creates ripples and effects other people, God wouldn't be just it he didn't punish, there are billions that might go there, but there's also many that will be saved if they want it so, but most people don't want to be, or rather don't see themselves of need of saving, which perfectly describes the human condition, we think we're good but we really aren't. It may seem unjust to you but there's also gonna be levels to it, a common atheist isn't gonna be punished like hitler for example, anyone can be saved and God wants everyone to be. But if you don't want saving or don't care for it He isn't gonna force Himself on you or anyone else, no one goes to heaven to be with God when they don't even want anything to do with Him, it's the pain of free will. It may be finite sin in our eyes, but we weren't made to act this way in the first place, we chose to however, and now there's consequences for it unfortunately. We are either offered eternal life or eternal death and each person has the ability to seek God and will find Him. God's standard for how we act is always higher than the human one, it's the ultimate moral standard, and therefore there is greater punishment. Trust me God loves people more than people ever can, but not many people love God or His ways, and thus a never ending cycle of rebellion.
Hell in the Bible is your grave, the death of body and soul and inability of spending eternity with God, not a place of torture. All you need to do is research the words for hell and their true meaning.
I've heard eastern orthodox christians believe that hell is the torment of being near God without being justified to him.
This is an interesting take, but o don't see the scriptural support for it, and bringing unjustified sinners closer to him doesn't seem to be in God's character. I think seperationism is more likely than that interpretation
Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.
Psalms 11:6-7 NKJV
If hell isn’t real, I got nothing to be concerned with if I do believe hell exists.
Oh Mike that you would have a sit down conversaion with Tim Mackie on a whole host of issues. It could be a whole series. You two are my favorite TH-cam teachers!
Big Mike! love these
This is totally off topic. You got enough pop filters on that microphone there brother LOL! Just teasing you man I love your videos a friend of mine who is a former worship leader that I served under at a Calvary chapel here in Dallas told me about you and I've been watching ever since
Two things can be true at once:
1. Hell is real
2. All biblical descriptions of hell are metaphorical
But metaphors for what?
The metaphors paint a portrait of misery, remorse, & pain in a life separate from God. C.S Lewis’ book The Great Divorce gives a glimpse of what it means for people to reject God and live in their own personal hell.
I don't see a reason in Scripture for it to be a personal hell, what do you mean by that? All it really needs to be is an unpleasant place that is completely separate from heaven and cut off from God's presence.
@@dahelmang I don’t mean personal in the “Dante’s inferno” sense, but rather that going to hell (i.e. being away from God’s presence) is a decision that people will make on their own volition. The story and scope of scripture tells a much more complex and nuanced view of heaven and hell than the pop-culture one we think about, and it’s not something that a person can simply prooftext. But to give an example of where western culture might misunderstand hell, when Jesus mentions what is translated “hell” in Matt 5, he actually says Gehenna which is an earthly geographic location that had cultural significance to Israel. You may already know or have heard this, but I think it illustrates the point that we take for granted English translators have taken interpretive liberties that aren’t always helpful. There is something deeper than just a location that Jesus is pointing to, it’s an idea that is also a spiritual reality. But we only come to a deeper understanding if we do the hard work of study and sympathizing with the author’s worldview rather than importing our own inherited assumptions about hell (and heaven).
@@austinlovelace2779 I think it doesn't help that the people saying that are usually trying to deny the obvious implications. But yeah we make it too simple in reaction to them.
"We have to be resurrected into new bodies to get there". In the New Age (I don't subscribe to this label, but I think that's how this will be perceived) this is exactly the belief. Through the expansion of consciousness, we raise our vibration, or our "light/energy" bodies. In doing so, perception shifts and 'heaven' is the perceived reality. In contrast, low vibrational energy bodies perceive a 'hell' reality. You can be looking at the same situation with the same pair of eyes, but based on your level of consciousness, your perception will be drastically different. This understanding was illustrated in The Hawkins Scale, in Dr. David R. Hawkins book, A Map of of Consciousness. It's a fascinating parallel, from my perspective. I enjoy listening to your videos Mike ❤️
If the rich man from the story of the rich man and Lazarus could speak to us, I wonder what he would tell us about his pain. Oh wait! He did mention an unquenchable thirst and torment. That sounds like a literal hell to me
And the key question here is this a parable or an actual event that Jesus referred to. My view is that this is literal and not a parable.
That passage was clearly a parable
@@discipledesigned Disagree. Parables do not reference names. In the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man , names, places and Father Abraham are mentioned , this is an actual story that happened.
@@joshuanun5317 no, Lazarus literally means “common name” Lazarus was not a specific name. Hence why Christ rose “Lazarus” from the dead.
@@joshuanun5317 also, it begins with the same “there was” which is found in all of the other parables. Also Christ Himself said He never spoke to the crowds unless it was in parables. He is speaking to a crowd in this passage. God bless.
Scary real.
Revelation 21:8
Matthew 10:28
As always, good stuff
Great series Mike and Alisa! Have you done any (or know of any) responses to Bishop Spong? So many led astray by his false teachings!
Thanks!
Ok so I haven't watched the vid yet, but wanted to say that the best understanding of hell I have heard yet is based on the verse "If I go down to sheol You are there" and the idea that when souls are in hell, it is actually not physical separation from God's love.. its being surrounded by it day and night and these souls not being able to accept or receive it. The lake of fire for the devil and the fallen angels is different and isn't intended for souls.
Correct, except after the resurrection, when we go to judgment, that's when you're either granted eternal life, or to be cast into gehenna (lake of fire)
If satan were to recruit people to his team, a logical start would be to convince people that hell is just unconsciousness.
I was just thinking of plantar fasciitis that feel like my heel is on fire, when Mike mentioned body pain and it felt like it was on fire!
There's no word hell in the Scriptures. It came from pagans from the time of Israel. In the old covenant when they died believers and unbelievers they knew they went to *sheol* ie Hades or the abode of the dead.
Mike should go through the Scriptures to find the truth.
Sheol & hades are what we call hell.
@@menknurlan The word "hell" has been used in place of "sheol", "grave", "pit", "tartarus", "hades", "gehenna" and "lake of fire". By conflating them all, people don't know the difference, and there is a big difference.
@@menknurlan As North of too Far said there's a huge difference between the Hebrew and Greek words and the word hell
Hades is also a pagan word, yet the Bible does use it.
Hell is real
True
Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Progressives. They are not Christians. Just cut to the chase. Jesus and the disciples did 2000-plus years ago.
So good!
bible project i noticed have a really twisted view of Hell. i used to watch there videos and hoped they would be a great source but to much false teaching.
I’m somewhat familiar with the Bible Project, but not sure I’ve seen their video about Hell, I will go look for it, but I’m interested to know more about what you saw as false teaching about Hell. This has been a challenging thing to discuss with several of my grown kids, and I find that this is actually one of many things I accepted at face value, when I first accepted Jesus as my Savior. So, I am tying to learn more, and make sure that I understand and am assured of the absolute truth of God, and can better discuss things like this difficult topic, in an attempt to see my kids return to what we have tried to bring them up to believe. They want to get into over my head philosophical discussions, and as I said, things that I have always accepted, even if I haven’t always like it or completely understood it, I have thought that God knows more about what He’s doing than me, and so I accept what the Bible says. I am continually trying to learn and better understand the Bible, and this is one of the topics that I want to better understand. I’d really like to know your thoughts about Hell. Thank you : )
@Jeremiah Lawson partership with false teachers also.
@@poppylove3673 Matthew 18:4 NKJV - “Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Hell is a really twisted view of reality
@@colinmatts Luckily it's just a state of mind 😉
Could you do a deep study on hell and the different views on it?
If he did, he might have to take down this video. He might actually find himself with questions that his fundie faith can't answer.
A deep study of hell? Oh dear, shouldn't you just prove it exists first?
@@colinmatts I can agree with you there. I don't believe in hell, at least not how the creator of this video does. So, pretty sure we are on the same side here.
@@jasonspencer8558
How can you not believe in hell when the Bible clearly and painfully teaches it, there's no need for a deep study if the Bible clearly teaches it
@@JasonLewis544 Wrong. By making that statement, you are ignoring the original languages, the history of interpretation, and the discussion of this topic for the last 2000 years. I'm sure you've read all sorts of books from various perspectives, right? Or did you just accept what you were fed?
Hell is annihilation. The wicked will be judged and perish and disappear.
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Mat 8:29 And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
The rich man and Lazarus was a parable, rev 20:10 explicitly says the devil and his angels are the receptive of the predicate “tormented forever and ever” not humans. Humans are mortal, always have been. This is why the gift of God is eternal life. If we were immortal, we wouldn’t need the gift of eternal life. The wages of sin is death- not eternal torment. The lake of fire for humans is known as the second death. Eternal punishment meaning the consequences of that punishment- death, will be eternal.
I would recommend inspiring philosophy's video called would god send people to hell his view on what hell is is very fascinating
as far as I understand, God created and sustains all... hell is being separate from God... no longer sustained... not everlasting life... but not sure everlasting death applies or what that would be... just not my preferance for myself unless it brings Glory to YHWH(God) in some way.
Everlasting life is a gift from God - Rom 6:23. Those who reject that gift do no receive eternal life. Conclusion?
Spong: I don’t think Hell exists. I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it’s got a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in a guilt-producing control business. And if you have Heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for you goodness, and Hell is a place where you’re punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the Hell out of a lot of people, throughout Christian history. And it’s part of a control tactic.
Morrison: But wait a minute. You’re saying that Hell, the idea of a place under the earth or somewhere you’re tormented for an eternity - is actually an invention of the church?
Spong: I think the church fired its furnaces hotter than anybody else. But I think there’s a sense in most religious life of reward and punishment in some form. The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. People don’t need to be born again. They need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world.
Morrison: What do you make of the theology which is pretty quite prominent these days in America, which is there is one guaranteed way not to go to hell; and that is to accept Jesus as your personal savior.
Spong: Yeah, I grew up in that tradition. Every church I know claims that ‘we are the true church’ - that they have some ultimate authority, ‘We have the infallible Pope,’ ‘We have the Bible.’… The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination for me.
I mean, God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition. But I don’t think my tradition defines God. It only points me to God.
I really like how he keeps the Dogmas of the Catholic Church 'back there on the ground.' Epic.
Hell is as real as god is. And so god isn't, so hell isn''t either.
How can I get ride of temptation. Because when I sin there is already a mindset in me that already knows that the action is not worth it and I am even more happy without it. The only thing that trips me up is the Fals assumption that I want to to the sin.
Seek the Spirit for strength
We will never get rid of temptation but we can fight it by praying and reading the word of God and building our relationship with God constantly and do whatever you can to avoid things that could cause you to give in to temptation. My favorite verse in a time like that is read this verse: No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
I Corinthians 10:13 NKJV
To know God’s love is to also know we are being saved from God’s righteous justice: separation from His grace, mercy, and love...
aka
-Lake of Fire.
-Eternal Punishment.
-Torment.
-Outer darkness.
-Weeping and gnashing of teeth.
-Where the worm does not die.
Repent, believe, & rejoice in our Savior!
1. ALL have sinned.
“for *all have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:12 ESV
2. Jesus came into the world to save sinners.
*"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"* 1 Timothy 1:15 KJV
Conclusion: If Jesus came to save sinners and all have sinned, *Jesus came to save all.* Are you suggesting he failed? Hell is a pagan teaching, and passing His children through the fire is not something YHWH God would even think of, said the prophet Jeremiah.
@@zachariah7114 with love and respect, are you saying we should just ignore all of the many warnings of Hell?
For example: Jesus’ words
“...it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire” you interpret that as...?
Side topic: I ask politely... do you also deny the Trinity because many who deny Hell often have a heterodox view of Jesus.
I agree that all have sinned and are w/o excuse. But justice must be served by a holy and righteous judge. What does justice look like to an unbeliever in your view?
God is basically an abusive father, I guess.
@@jasonspencer8558 respectfully disagree because I deserve all those things. I have broken God’s laws willfully and continually more times than I can count. A God who is just, holy, and righteous cannot leave my sin unpunished or he is none of those attributes and thus no longer good. He has provided a way for my sins to be atoned for by sending Jesus to die in my place. The Bible says all are w/o excuse therefore the abusive father remark cannot be supported. It is only through the grace of God that I have been saved.
May I ask what you believe happens to those who die in their sins? Do you believe annihilationism, universalism, or something else? Just curious.
@@Foreknown_ I am a Christian Universalist. I believe that God has the will to save all to a knowledge of himself, and therefore it will be done, as promised in Scripture many times. You are welcome to feel like you deserve punishment, but Jesus came to reveal God as Savior, not tormenter. God is Love, and any of his other character traits are 100% subservient to Love. Want to know the characteristics of Love? Ask Paul.
Well done
So today I've been attacked in my belief in Jesus. People claiming that those who believe that Jesus is God is sending me to hell. That only by leaving a sinless life and by our works are we saved.
What would you say to this?
So good thankyou so much!
I've had someone say hell dsnt exist religion has made it up to scare you into submission and how they know is you can't burn the spirit. Its wild what people think right now claiming to be Christian
As someone who identifies as a progressive Christian, I have to say that I disagree with many of the 23 "Ragamuffin claims". I reckon that Ragamuffin TV misrepresents progressive Christians just as much as he (they?) misunderstands conservative Christians.
As a progressive what do you believe compared to others I'd love to help you see the truth
@@JasonLewis544 <
It's difficult to know whether you are joking or not.
If you are not joking, then you have fallen at the first hurdle. As a progressive Christian, the whole idea that any random Christian (including myself) would somehow possess "the truth" is absurd.
As a progressive Christian, one of the things I am very suspicious of is the idea of received dogma. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe anything just because it is dogma. (Philippians 2:12 )
Don't get me wrong, I do believe in absolute truth; I just don't believe that either of us possess much of it. Life as a Christian is a walk, and on that walk we are nourished and pruned by Christ. The idea that any of us have arrived at "the truth" at any time before the resurrection is blasphemy.
There are many things that I believe that are also considered dogma; many of the ancient creeds for example. But I don't believe them because they are dogma. I believe them because I have been convinced of them by scripture, by discussion, and by prayer.
The "new evangelical dogmas" are even less to be trusted. The most extreme example is that we must vote for the party that will make abortion illegal. I'm an extreme pro-lifer, this is one of the most complex issues in modern Christian life, especially in the USA. It's not as simple as voting for a party based on this one policy; even if abortion is the only issue you care about.
If you had suggested that "As a progressive what do you believe compared to others. I'd love to discuss our faith in Christ together, to help us both see the truth more clearly", I would have been quite interested.
But the idea that you reckon you could somehow unilaterally "help me see the truth" makes you an arrogant fool.
But maybe you were joking. In which case, mildly amusing.
Mike, you should do a video with one of these people you disagree with. I know they are willing.
I've seen people act out hell more real than I could conjure up. Hell is very real and is meant for people you'll never wish to meet.
@agiflow Yes, all fell short of the Glory of God and so he sent Jesus that we may be saved without which we would be doomed, but hell was not originally meant for us but for the truly wicked, the devil, demons, and those who practice the devil's ways. People are not sent to hell because it was meant for them (I'm not saying they are not deserving of it) or God hates them, but because they chose hell over God (still baffled as to why). Those who hell is truly meant for are the people you never want to meet. I was not talking about the average person.
Anyone who does not believe on the Son is already condemned. John 3:18 I believe
The Fathers tell us that we are allowed to hope hell is empty. But having hope is different then saying hell doesn’t exist. I think progressives don’t think about how evil people can be.
Did you forget to photoshop her into the bookshelf
As a Roman Catholic I see the Pope kind of like American presidents. Popes are figureheads in a line of succession all the way back to Peter. As with presidents some are better than others, and can give statements that may or may not be in line with the church as a whole.
Keep up the good work Mike!!
What about the Catholic Church's teaching about whenever a Pope speaks on matters of faith or morals, that he is infallible? If the Pope is "infallible," then how in the world can he and his church be at odds?? 🤔🤷♀
Your current lot in life can be compared to a hellscape, so in that sense it's not only a state of mind.
This is really just more of that Heaven or hell is just a state of mind.
This is just a metaphor for how your thinking affects your well-being.
We use this because of the biblical concepts, and putting forth this idea of Heaven & hell is really circular thinking.
Heaven and hell are real places. Believe it in case you are wrong. Don’t take a chance. If you are right, it won’t hurt.
@Light4you John 3:16 (NKJV) “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Pascal’s wager? Weak
Solid. Thank you.
I don’t get it. Why would a father, who loves us, throw us in eternal pain, in case we choose to disobey. What kind of love does stuff like that.
Because we lost perfection when Adam CHOSE to sin in the Garden. He only had ONE rule to follow and he broke it, knowingly and willingly. So all of us are born in God's image (spirit) but with the sin NATURE. We still have to choose every day whether to go against God's Will or not. Willful disobedience is sin. God made the world, so He gets to make the rules. "The wages of sin is death." "All have sinned and come short...." But God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten SON that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish.
@@watchgoose Weren’t they seduced by Satan? I know we are sinners. I don’t understand why God loves us so much on one hand, but on the other hand he would punish us for all eternity. „Choose me lovingly, because otherwise I am throwing you in a lake of fire.“
@@thomasw1865 I mean I’m a Christian and even I have a hard time trying to wrap my head around it but I’m not God and I don’t make the rules id rather just accept his offer of eternal life and heaven seems like a pretty sweet deal to me but that’s just me though
@@davidordaz5251 thanks David. That’s at least an answer without a phrase or something :)
I am a christian, too. But I kinda look the atheist view on this, and think as a non believer, I would really really have a hard time to be attracted to a religion, which offers so much...but threatens so much, too
In the end, it is our free will to whether we accept God or not. I would not portray God as a being who enjoys giving pain. It is our decision to follow him and if we chose to not, we will go to a place where there isn't any of His presence which is Hell.
Well JESUS said both are real locations. Not just states of mind. He even said it was instant at the point of death, not waiting. He told the thief on the right side of the Cross, “ Today you will be with Me in Paradise”. (And Paradise is translated as Heaven, a place JESUS was going at death.) ...I’m going with what Jesus said.
That is not what he said, and Jesus did not go to Heaven at Death. He ascended into Sheol (Death) before he was resurrected, THEN when he left the Earth he went to Heaven. No where in Scripture does it state Jesus was in Heaven during those three days, nor is it slightly implied. The meaning of Christ's words to the thief on the Cross were changed with a COMMA. "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise" should read “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise" He was promising the thief would be with him in the New Kingdom/Paradise. NOT HEAVEN. And not on that day. Jesus really died! He had to be raised. Nowhere in the Bible are you promised to go to Heaven when you die. Nowhere is it even remotely implied. Quote me Scripture... You misunderstand what he said Beth.
Paradise is actually translated “the garden” which I think is profound.
No, he didn't. You are reading that into what Jesus said.
@@austinlovelace2779 very profound Austin. The Second Garden, like the Second Adam.
here is a question to anyone willing to answer. As a christian who reads the bible its pretty clear that hell is a real place according to God but Im starting to entertain the idea now that hell isnt eternal torment like so many believe but rather where God destroys the soul for good. The second death. The only time hell gets mentioned as eternal torment is in revelation when the bible says satan and the beast will be there forever and ever. Every other context in the bible its mentioned as a place where souls get destroyed. If im heading towards a lie can someone save me? im on the fence on this issue
People that do not want to believe will use any excuse not too. You can thank all the new age bibles for the added confusion.
Describing hell is quite a difficult task.
A believer that has communion with God should be quite familiar with the feeling of loosing this communion.
Hell is worse then that. In my opinion it is similar to a person that will have no communion with human beings, nevertheless with God as his prayers hit the literal ceiling. By ceiling I am referring to the chasm that Jesus mentions in Luke16 in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
God bless you Mike
upon the wicked he will rain coals; fire and brimstone and a burning wind shall be the portion of their cup. for the lord is righteous, he loves righteousness; his countenance beholds the upright.
psalms 11:6-7 nkjv
pretty simple and very sobering
@@JasonLewis544
The burning wind reminds me of the poem “Dolce Decorum by Wildred Owen
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS!”
3:25-3:36 And the book of Revelation has Heaven come to Earth and hades being the place of “second death.”
Yep
If heaven and hell are just states of mind and not geographical places, what does that mean? Does everyone just continue laying in their casket either in a conscious state of torment or state of peace?
0:31-0:37 Yes and no. Hell is a very real spiritual force that makes its home in many different geographical places.
Take away the Threats the Fears and Judgements from this Religion, and the Religion will lose its power its influence and its control eventually its followers 😊
Under our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross ,shed His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
If/when we awake to the afterlife we will know instantly how we responded to the Almighty during our earthly life...as in I believed and acted or didn't and remained rebellious or flat unbelieving...
Genesis verses 3-4
Wasn't it always about death, since the original sin? "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
Satan, "Eat it, Eve, YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE." [you will live in hell forever] traditional hell = believing the first lie of Satan himself, plainly shown in the word of God, from the very start.
A catholic priest once told me that heaven was a state of mind and not a physical place. I am an atheist now and I still find the idea of a state of mind comforting. I believe when you are dead that you are beyond experiencing anything. It's oblivion. That's not a bad state of mind.
I think the torture of mind may be the small experience the "dammed" have with the presence of God and knowing they will be missing out on it.
@@lizicadumitru9683 Your mind cannot be tortured when your brain is rotting away or turned to ash
If it was a state of mind then our body's wouldn't be ressurected at the rapture so the priest point was unbiblical. Also as an athiest could you please tell me why you fell to the deceptions of the devil and why you believe athiesm is the truth?
@@JasonLewis544 How do you KNOW your decomposed body will be resurrected at the rapture? I did not fall to any deceptions. I don't believe in a DEVIL. I simply outgrew the religion I was raised with and was unconvinced by the claims of other religions. Atheism does not make any truth claims. It is simply the label given to people who lack belief in a God.
@@colinmatts
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:40 NKJV
Athiesm is absolutely scientifically impossible, nothing can't create everything and a book can't write itself, remember scientists call DNA the blueprint of life. Athiesm was made up so some man could find an excuse for their sinful desires and excuse them because with no God there is no moral standard only what society's moral standard is.
Hell is death or the grave it is not a place. The lake of fire has HELL thrown into it as well as DEATH... Hell is no eternal place of torture. That is Greek paganism not Judaism or Christianity.
Thats a little comforting
Jesus body after the crucifiction went to the grave, aka Hades. Jesus' spirit went to Sheol (aka Abraham's Bosom), to Hell aka Tartarus/the Abyss, and also temporarily to heaven. Jesus went to Sheol aka Abraham's Bosom to deliver/preach to those OT saints held captive and take them to the Father in heaven. He also went to Hell/the Abyss to deliver a message to the Watchers chained in darkness there, "I have defeated death. You shall have no peace." Scripture effectively tells us that Jesus took the keys of the locked gates of the city of Sheol from Satan because Jesus took authority over death because he defeated it through the resurrection. Jesus will also be given full authority over the Nations upon His Second Coming. Jesus' reason for stopping by Hell was to see the Watcher's and deliver a reply to their message (delivered by Enoch to God centuries before Jesus' death.) The 1st book of Enoch says the Watchers wanted release from the Abyss, aka Hell in exchange would be a pledge of loyalty to GOD and return to their former station, aka abode. Jesus' message was, "You shall have no peace. I have defeated death and your sentence is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, the rest of the Fallen who fell at Babylon and those deceased disembodied spirits (demons) of the Nephilim and Raiphate, aka Men of Reknown." "I now hold the keys of Sheol because I defeated death with the help of My Father. I am resurrected with the aid of my Father and will return to the Father after my resurrection and sit on the Mercy Seat and will judge at my Second Coming and after the Millennium is done at the Great White Throne Judgment. Your sentence will be carried out in the Lake of Fire. You will have the company of the spirits of deceased human apostates and unbelievers there for all eternity." Jesus' appeared to many at the same time after his resurrection, why then is it not possible for him to be in the grave, Sheol, Hell, and heaven at the same time? God is outside time...that is what is meant by HIM being omnipresent, omnipotent. The Trinity is also Sovereign. GOD limits what the evil ones are allowed to do in our lives and the world. Jesus took all our sins, past, present, and future upon himself and paid for them on the cross. Our faith in Jesus as the Messiah and His completed work on the cross is our salvation. Death is what we inherited through Adam, but through faith in Jesus as the Messiah we are saved, so that no man can boast in keeping God's Moral Law. No man had ever kept the Law, but Jesus. The law is a personal guideline to see our progress in our walk with God.
Faith in Jesus as the Messiah is important. Why? Some people believe that Jesus was a man in history and that he was a prophet, but many more people living or dead believe that Jesus is the Messiah, our Lord and Savior.
Those that believe Jesus was the Son of God will inherit eternal life. Messianic Jews and Christians know their Messiah well and their Shepherd knows them well.
Hell isn't eternal damnation according to Greek and Hebrew but rather a " land of the barren and the dead ". It's not a place you go to be tortured eternally. Instead just a place void of God. And we don't even know how long that experience lasts because the Jews never used words like eternity. Furthermore, in early scripture they used the word " beyond what can be seen ' or " behind the horizon" which was then translated to eternity.... A poor translation. Imo. Maybe hell simply means to cease to exist. To perish. To disappear and be turned away from God forever. I think the fire metaphor isn't used to describe the sensation of what it feels like but rather to emphasize it's severity. The severity of sin.
Comments for TH-cam's algorithm~
Are we sure that human souls are automatically eternal? God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they couldn’t eat from the tree of life. On Judgement Day Jesus will allow His followers to eat from the tree of life. Maybe people who reject Jesus go to “the second death” meaning they cease to exist. After all hell was created for the fallen angels - not for humans.
Hell is described in Bible as lake of fire AND a cold outer darkness
Hell is a future place. It's not a geographic location we can point to on the map. Neither is heaven. They exist on a different plane of existence.
If you hadn't said it was from the Pope I would have thought Bill Johnson said this at a Bethel service
Thank You 🙏🏽 ❤️ 🇺🇸
Rob Bell trying to get you to a certain answer by using leading questions. Hmm, seems like I remember someone else doing that in the Bible to deceive.
In Hinduism we have "lokas" which are places gods and beings exist. The holy books talk about them as literal places - like hell and heaven (which would be two of many lokas). Some of these places you can see, some we can't, some look like earth, some don't. Its become very very commonplace now to say its all figurative, and they are just states of consciousness. So, when I saw they are doing the same with Christianity - I laughed! This has been debunked by many in Hinduism, as the moment you say they are not physical so many of the texts fail to make sense. This is a very new age influenced point of view. On the other hand, hell, heaven, lokas might be physical locations that can be used metaphorically. No reason why you can't have both methaphor and literal.
Well they'll believe in it one way or the other.
HELL IS FOREVER AND IT'S MEANT TO SUCK A LOT.
Jesus is exclusively the Savior but *believers aren’t exclusively the saved…* at least according to the Apostle Paul in his first letter to Timothy. He writes:
“For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, *who is the Savior of all people,* especially of those who believe.” 1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
*Especially never means exclusively.* Paul plainly says that God is the Savor of believers *and* unbelievers, but the Savior of believers in a special sense because they already know Him and experience His redemption, and testify of it. (God is the Savior of believers in this special sense because they are “his witnesses” like it says in Isaiah 43:10-11 understanding that there is no Savior but the living God.)
The Weymouth translation especially brings out the meaning of this verse. It reads: “and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, *who is the Saviour of all mankind,* and especially of believers.”
The word translated as "people" in the ESV and "mankind" in the Weymouth is 'anthropos' and mankind is actually a more accurate translation. Greek New Testament scholar Kenneth Wuest who writes, "There are two words in Greek which mean 'man,' anēr, which refers to a male INDIVIDUAL of the human race, and *anthrōpos,* which is the racial, generic term, and which has the general idea of *'mankind'* " (3, Great Truths to Live By, 46).]
Jesus is the Savior of Mankind, and his death, burial and resurrection were for the whole human race, not a select few.
“For there is one God, and one mediator *between God and men,* the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” 1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV
The same word used in 1 Timothy 4:10 for *men (anthrōpos)* is used here, meaning Paul is talking about how *mankind as a whole is represented by Christ, while Christ himself represents God to that same whole of humanity.* If Paul wanted to say men as a broad but still limited and numbered group of men, he would have used the word anēr as this word talks about individuals of the human race… but Paul didn’t use that word, he used anthrōpos. We see the word anēr used to refer to a multitude in the Gospel of Matthew, for example, when describing the five thousand men fed by Christ.
So to recap, *in 1 Timothy 2:5 and 1 Timothy 4:10, Paul says that God is the Savior of the entire human race, and that Jesus is the mediator between God and MANKIND.* His use of the word anthrōpos instead of the word anēr indicates Paul understood God to be more than the Savior of some men, and Christ to be more than the mediator between God and some men. Paul saw Christ’s work on the Cross as God’s act of love towards *the whole human race.*
Can we please get some comments on this to start a discussion? This is a very interesting take. Notice how people flock to comments that are easy for them to dismiss with straw man arguments, but a well thought-out and backed-up post like this requires a lot deeper thought and knowledgeable sources in order to take a reasonable stance against; hence nobody dares to comment and be forced to prove themselves right rather than simply proving another wrong.
Interesting take indeed. Yet how does this square with John 3:16 and other related passages that talk about believing and confessing Christ?
Once dead, judgment comes - Heb 9:27
@@lizicadumitru9683 fair questions but hope doesn’t end at death (and Hebrews 9:27 doesn’t say that we are judged immediately following our own moments of deaths, I understand it to mean the Resurrection)
All that said, without confessing Christ one will not experience salvation and God... luckily the NT says ALL will confess...
Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess
“Turn to me and be saved, *all you ends of the earth;* for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: *Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’ ” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.”* Isaiah 45:22-24 NIV
“at the name of Jesus *every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”* Philippians 2:10-11 ESV
“if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, *you will be saved.* For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” Romans 10:9-10 ESV
The most important part of Philippians 2:10-11 is that *all of this is done to the glory of God the Father.* And we also know from the prophet Ezekiel that God takes NO pleasure in the deaths of the wicked. How will He take glory from their eternal torture or destruction either?
If every tongue will confess, *every tongue will be saved.* If every heart will believe, *every heart will be saved.* And if every knee will bow, *every knee will be saved.*
@@zachariah7114 Great points, I'll have to look closer at the Isaiah passage's context. Like, does it speak of genuine confession or just an admission of the truth?
As for hope after death, not 100% that scripture teaches that seeing how the great commission and evangelism is set in the realm of the living.
Can conversion come after death? Depends on your theology of death I suppose. I just don't see scripture alluding to born again status after death beside that one obscure passage in Peter's epistle about Christ preaching to the spirits in "prison."
Awesome topic for sure and I'd like nothing more than your position to be true. I just don't see it spelled out clearly in scripture.
what do you think about the idea from case for faith that jp morland has that hell is more like a prison cell and that the flames are metaphores for being emotionaly in pain seperated from GOD but still seeing HIM and everyone in heven?
Lazarus and the rich man.
“Everything I disagree with is a metaphor.”
@@gradystein5765 what do you meme by that?
@@gradystein5765 wait no i see what your saying. pepol tend to try to get out of hard things to see as moral in the Bible by dismissing them as metaphores?
Well according to, Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.
Psalms 11:6-7 NKJV
That's not right
What about ANNIHILATION?
"Heaven and Hell aren't literal places, they're states of consciousness." I lost brain cells hearing that.
My interpretation of Hell (which could be completely wrong) is that it is eternal separation from God. We were created to be with God then man fell and we were sentenced to not only separation here on Earth but even separation after death, a true spiritual death, which to me is already awful. I can't imagine being eternally separated from the 1 thing you were created for. I thank God that he loved us and sent Christ to restore the original design. Now we have fellowship with God through Christ but also have fellowship with each other through his church.
I am not saying my belief is correct, there absolutely could be other punishment outside of spiritual death and separation from God but because of Christ I have no fear of finding out what is really out there.
The rich man opened his eyes in hell. He didn’t open his eyes and felt separated from God. Also a no hell doesn’t allow u to realize that you are sinner headed to hell and in need of a savior. If there is no hell to be saved from then need of salvation. Dangerous doctrine and ignorance of what the Bible teaches is why the this verse applies:
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
@@noles9998 I mean amen, I agree with you and what this verse is saying. However, until I have a revelation from the Lord on what exactly Hell consists of then I will fully say I have no idea. To me personally eternity of knowing I am separated from the God who created me and my redeemer who loved me despite my sin would be the worse punishment I can imagine. My belief isn't that those who live in this "hell" don't ever wake up and realize what they are separated from. I believe the opposite, they are fully aware of what they have missed and are now stuck living in isolations, separated from the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
@@masonjones3427 the bible is very clear on hell no need to guess, the wicked and all sin will be destroyed in the lake of fire and notice my words carefully destroyed meaning the results of the flames or punishment is forever, no one is burning forever as many like to claim yet have no scriptural support
@@masonjones3427 the rich man literally screams father Abraham let Lazarus dip his finger in water and put on my tongue cause I’m in torment. There is your revelation from the Lord, it doesn’t get any clearer. If that is a symbolic meaning or a parable what is it a parable of? Lol
How bout don’t fear man who can only kill the body but rather fear him who can kill the body and cast body and soul in hell.
@@noles9998 That parable is about the unbelieving leaders who EVEN IF A DEAD MAN CAME TO THEM THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE.
"The rich man said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 He replied to him, ‘If they do not respond to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."
They didn't believe Christ when he was alive, the wouldn't believe him after he rose from the dead.
Imagine claiming that people are trying to reinvent Christianity when the Bible you read isn't even close to the original texts. Hell was never mentioned in the original texts, the concept didn't even exist until nearly 400 years after Jesus.
God definitely overreacts. Eternal torture for finite 'crimes'?
If any humans acted in the way God is supposed to have acted we would call them mass-murderers, psychopaths and genocidal maniacs.
You just give God a free pass because you believe he made everything and therefore gets to do whatever he wants.
Might = Right
Chris, I think that you fundamentally don’t understand what I’ve said. Instead you tell me what I think and get it wrong.
@@MikeWinger
It's not that I think you said this.
I probably have misrepresented your opinion on why it's OK for God to allow people to be tortured for eternity or why it's OK for God to commit genocide. I'm sure your position will be much more nuanced than the way I've said it so I hold my hands up for that.
I just don't see a way that it can be justified.
@@MikeWinger So what HAVE you said???? Where do you stand on this. Is Hell real or not in your opinion???
@@ChrisFineganTunes Eternal conscious torment isn't taught in scripture.
@@lizicadumitru9683 as it happens, I agree. Most of our ideas about hell are from Dante's Inferno and not from the Bible.
An awful lot of Christians fully subscribe to the 'eternal torture' idea. You don't. Great.. I'm trying to disabuse the other Christians of this destructive notion.
God doesn’t overreact??
Can God UNCREATE human souls that He has created?
Okay so we have to remember that the Catholic church is a mixture of all pagan religions and Christianity.. they're basically the iron mixing with clay.. we also have to realize what certain translations mean. For example hell in Hebrew is sheol which means the grave or the covering or the pit.. this is why King David said he will make his bed in hell / sheol.. we all go to the grave. But hell fire is different. Hellfire is reserved for judgment after the day of the Lord/when Christ returns.remember Sodom and Gomorrah are set forth as an example on what judgment will be like. God will reign fire and brimstone from heaven consuming the entire Earth until the wicked burn and they are ashes beneath our feet.. then the restart will happen. People are not burning in hell at the momentcuz they are asleep in the grave awaiting for the Lord's return.then the dead in Christ shall rise first and the ones who are alive and remain will be caught up. As for everyone else they will rise after the thousand year reign in heaven to be judged.