Millerman Talks #12: Leo Strauss, Neoconservatism, and Noble Lies
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2018
- Some thoughts on Leo Strauss, neoconservatism, and noble lies. Sorry that the video is out of focus! I forgot to focus it but didn't want to rerecord it after the spontaneous talk. Also, I misspoke at one point when neglecting to mention the Phaedo as the dialogue that treats Socrates's end. But I trust viewers will still find some of the comments here interesting and helpful.
@M_Millerman - เพลง
Well done, well spoken. Organized. Concise. Clear. Well thought out. Thank you. I learned a lot in a brief time.
That's great that baby keeps interrupting. That woman chimes in as she is following along. I wish my wife was like that
Good talk, and I agree with you as far as it goes. But I think the more relevant text is The Republic, in which Socrates envisions a state governed by wise guardians who have escaped the cave of delusion. At a certain point, he asks whether it might not be necessary to deceive the people in order to get them to do something they would not otherwise want to do, and this for the greater good of the state. This, in my opinion, is what was guiding the neocons.
The great philosopher Lyndon LaRouche totally debunked Strauss, destroyed and demolished him.
I always found it curious that in the Crito (the dialogue which is mentioned in the video that takes place while Socrates is imprisoned) Socrates advises his followers to pay attention to the words of wise men, not the majority of men, but he then goes on to willingly submit himself to the death sentence (even after a bribe was successfully offered to the prison guard) which has been ordained for him by essentially what was majority rule - the Athenian state. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Good question. Socrates thought the unexamined life not worth living. But having examined his life philosophically, he found that he did not have knowledge. In the absence of knowing the truth, he found he had no reason to abandon the conventions of the time.
Not believing in the gods of the City sounds like not believing the Covid narrative.
And many, many others.
Hello Michael. I highly recommend reading Rediscovering Plato and the Mystical Science of Dialectic by Norman D Livergood. Additionally, I highly recommend watching lectures by Pierre Grimes. Best wishes.
Thank you for the recommendations.
Just subbed for all your content, started down this rabbit hole through Jordan Peterson, discovered John vervaeke and now I’ve discovered you.
I haven't heard of John Vervaeke, but I too wouldn't be here if I didn't get interested in Peterson a few years ago
@@crowstakingoff oh Peterson just spoke with vervaeke, he’s a cog sci teacher at u of t they’ve known each other for quite some time now., check out his meaning crisis series on TH-cam it’s probably just as good as Peterson’s biblical series
For a profound philosophical political interpretations within the sphere of the right, Millerman is way better than Peterson, and to be honest, regarding all the respect that I hold for Peterson, he is bad in politics, and his criticism of Marxist ideology is actually, well, superficial, and goes by the notion: "Marxism killed 100 million, marxism bad"...But I think that a Person who watch and read Peterson can formulate a coherent correlation between his philosophical and psychological analysis, that can be implicitly translated into a political stance.
Superb. Accessible to working people. If you do a video on neitzche I’d appreciate it.
He's made several Nietzsche videos?
@@SatSingh-mm4gg I haven’t found them?
Very inspiring to view the Noble Lie in this light. What about Plato’s use of the Noble Lie in the Republic re The Myth of the Metals, though? Not only is this a more explicit use of the NL in Plato, but it seems directed at a political goal. Thank you.
This is going a bit off subject but since you said you were Zionist, what's your take on the Transfer Agreement with Nazi Germany in the 30s?
I kind of raised an eye brown when you stated that your original thoughts about the neocons were positive because they tend to be positive about the statehood of Israel - is this really a wise starting point if one is to judge the various ideologies or political thoughts. I couldn’t’ care less whether or not the Jews find e.g. the Fourth Political Theory to be wise or the opposite - that goes for the people of Chile and Kenya as well.
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That said, I think your explanation about the noble lie - based on Socrates and Plato - were very good.
But… I also think you put this very good explanation into a wrong context - especially with your examples about the war against Iraq.
If the given explanations to go for a war against Iraq was for a better cause - and this cause was too difficult to explain to the masses of US - what was the noble cause then!?...
I don’t think that this lie was meant noble - I think the reason was much simpler. I think that the lie was to cover up for the real political purpose only - and certainly not to obtain any kind of wisdom.
I also believe that the true goal of this war was to get rid of one of Israel’s enemies (especially due to Iraq’s SCUD-missiles and because Israel feared they had ABC-weapons as well).
I also believe that the second goal of that war was to obtain yet another US military strong hole from where the US later could control the oil production and later expand their activities against (the Russian-friendly/Israel-hostile) Syria and Iran.
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I think that the true Strauss just tries to advocate in order to justify any actions taking by the world police - meaning that if… a country don’t comply with the United States goal to plant a Starbucks, a McD and a 7-11 on every corner in their society, then… there is a treat against USA and it's a “noble” cause to invade them.
That’s also why Russia is the number one enemy of USA - as they don't allow Monsanto to use GMO-crops in Russia, as they don't allow Goldman Sachs to control the financial system in Russia, as they don't allow US companies to take 90% of the profit from Russia natural resources et cetera et cetera…
Thank you for your comments. I only wanted to distinguish between the view that the noble lie has a primarily political goal, like invasion, enrichment, and so on, and the view that the nobility of the lie can have a philosophical, rather than a political dimension. That was my limited aim. I have noticed that Strauss's name is often dragged into discussions of neoconservatism in a way that makes it seem as though he was a supporter primarily or exclusively of the political lie, I mean the lie for a political end. I hope my presentation shows that it is not so simple. Thanks again.
@@millerman Dear Michael
1. Yes, I get it about the distinguishing between the view that the noble lie could have a primarily political goal, like invasion, enrichment, and so on, and the view that the nobility of the lie could have a philosophical, rather than a political dimension - and again you made a difficult subject easy to understand - I just think that the example with Iraq were a bad choice.
2. About the Jewish angle; Pls note that I personally rank Jews as high as all other human people - that being Danes or people from Singapore - neither less, neither more.
That said, I also see you tend to bring in some kind of Jewish angle to several of your talking points. By doing that I think you limit yourself - and thereby your frame for a true philosophical discussion about the subject.
Because… going back in times then; how do you measure the philosophical aspects of Denmark who, for thousands of years, didn’t had any Jews at all - or what about Asia, South America, what about the ethnic natives former gods in USA, et cetera et cetera.
Do we have to find a Jewish angle to explain The French Revolution - and what to do, if that's not possible!?...
[EDITED]
[and what if the French Revolution was not even a French phenomenon!? ... Please remember that when philosophers such as Jean-Jacques Rousseau talked about the social contract, why we were not monsters or about why artists exhibited their works, he never spoke of the French people, but about humans and human nature. Had Jean-Jacques Rousseau limited his philosophical observations to only Frenchmen (or from a Jewish or Danish angle), he had set an artificial framework for his findings. I kindly quote your own thoughts from “Millerman Talks Episode 8 - Inquiry and Moderation”; “…thought seeks to exceed boundaries and limitations”…]
In my book it’s completely legal to lean on your personal experience as a Canadian citizen regarding e.g. your student period in Canada or as a Jew (where it’s relevant) - in all other cases the Canadian and Jewish Michael Millerman should be filtered out in order to get a free philosophical analyse slash debate.
I look forward to your answer:-)
Kind regards
Tommy
Thanks for your comments. The main reason I thought it was appropriate to bring up the Jewish issue in this video is that neo-conservatism is often taken to be a broadly Jewish phenomenon by its opponents. I wanted to disclose and acknowledge what might seem relevant to some, while at the same time transcending that horizon in the course of the discussion itself. Anyway, it will not be a regular theme of my videos, especially the more philosophical ones. Thanks again for your comments and for watching.
@@millerman
Dear Michael
OK - noted. I’ll look forward to new videos slash writings from you and a (delayed) Happy New Year to you and your lovely family.
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The videos about political and philosophical topics are really good and I look forward to see the next in line.
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Kind regards
Tommy
Are you sure it's a noble lie and not esoteric writing
Esoteric writing is how noble lies are transmitted between the liars.
The invasion of Iraq was on the behalf of Israel… not oil.
Calling Leo strauss neoconservative is dumb
He is literally the main architect of america's foreign policy. All his followers are neoconservatives, aka zionists
You're not an entomologist?
Gadfly sting is so painful that most people would go into shock?
Ie like the stingray?
You dont know, bro.
You're simply forwarding memes?
Strauss did a better job in his debate against Dugin but bannon destroyed Strauss in that debate.
The noble lie sums up what conservatism has become. From Brexit to Trump, conservatives accepting that lying to the working class is needed inorder to win in a democracy.
Neocons opposed brexit and trump...