This showed up on my for you page. Thought I would share that because it means the algorithm chose you as a small creator to show me. I do agree mostly with the critting part of the argument, but I do think there are reasons to build shadowflame on some burst mages. First of all, the gold efficiency in shadowflame is more ap and pen, while stormsurge may have unwanted movespeed. Also, buying both on burst mages can be good with some builds. Flat magic pen is more effective against champs with low mr, and the only three items with flat magic pen (outside of malignance passive) are sorcerers boots, shadowflame, and stormsurge. Furthermore, shadowflame and stormsurge have great synergy with dartk harvest, as if they opponent survives the initial burst, they can die to the critting stormsurge and darkharvest proc for execute. Overall, I think it was a good video, and I like to hear your thoughts in response to these points. To be fair, most of this come from repeating what I've heard, as I am just a bronze player lol.
everything u said is right, i do think building both can be good especially if you are fed and can buy both rather quickly, though i do think of the movespeed from stormsurge as a very good bonus stat (on any champion besides yuumi i guess). i could have put this in the video but i was focusing on statistics: ofc shadowflame can be a good item if your purpose in the game is to hit people below 40% (for example your team will get them low first, THEN you finish them off) but most poke/burst mages arent executing people, they are simply chunking them or straight up killing them from full hp (and when they ARE executing people, they probably have enough damage anyway).
Thank you. I guess move speed is a decent stat. It's definitely not the most necessary item i build. Usually only build it on hwei or ap seraphine because of her q execute damage.
I think Shadowflames viability really depends on the percent of damage that falls under the threshold with stormsurge being better for melees and assassins and shadowflame being better for consistent. It also is enemy and itemisation dependant but a champ that does 5 instances of 19% max hp true damage wants stormsure more commonly than a champ that does 19 instances of 5%
im not entirely sure what you mean but any champ that does % hp damage such as a sol, singed, or gwen almost ALWAYS want shadowflame over stormsurge just bc the % hp dmg gets amplified by the % increase of shadowflame. gwen isnt as reliant on her passive damage anymore so stormsurge might be better but it is still OP to get a % increase on max hp% damage
personally i would ALWAYS go stormsurge on her because the stormsurge active (30sec cd) feels very nice on both her and orianna, not to mention syndra r eventually executes targets below 20% hp so the execute dmg of shadowflame is sort of wasted. BUT shadowflame is still good on syndra since she has sort-of-consistent damage so i can understand why some people would like it over stormsurge
Ever since Stormsurge got more and more hit after its resurgence, it has been a niche item for champions that care about squeezing as much magic penetration as possible or their play pattern is revolved around absolutely 100-0 their opponents (to which I maybe agree, Zoe falls into that category as Shadowflame does not activate if you deal your damage above the threshold but Zoe is a champion that I almost never see), even the mentioned Lux deals her damage in 3 spells plus if you include the auto attack/s to maximize damage. Outside of that, I disagree that it is better. Most of the mid lane mages that want to prioritize damage against squishies would go Luden's Companion into Shadowflame and we've seen plenty of times what the result is when you pair the two items alongside Sorcerer's Shoes against the targets in question. If you are unable to replicate the outcome, you wouldn't be able to replicate it with Stormsurge in place of Shadowflame. My examples here would be Syndra or Orianna for example. Both can deal a large amount of damage in a matter of a second, but neither deal it in a single spell that brings you from full health directly into a gray screen, even Syndra's ultimate orbs each deal separate damage and even if I'm not bringing my math notebook with me - I am also confident in thinking that Shadowflame will deal more damage than the approximate ~140 of damage that the funny effect of Stormsurge. You also fail to take into consideration the fact that the "active" of Stormsurge has a cooldown and unless you reach the takedown for the effect to hit others - it's simply used on a single champion and it's out for the next 30s. Shadowflame scales better in that regard as you can keep taking advantage of that effect as a fight keeps progressing. "Hwei is not a champion with low cooldowns" is a funny take given that you are looking at a singular point Q and saying that, it's already -2 seconds of cooldown with your current haste. To what you also mention in a comment "but most poke/burst mages arent executing people, they are simply chunking them or straight up killing them from full hp", I covered some of it in my own comment but also it's not about executing or not, it's the fact that you are dealing way more damage by going Shadowflame against the targets you are buying those items against. If you are looking to poke tanks, or champions with high maximum hp - then you are looking in the wrong category of items. In my eyes, the only time Stormsurge is includeed in a build is when you are trying to maximize the flat magic penetration on a champion that does not take slot for a Lost Chapter item (for example Akali or Elise, but there used to be that variant of a Syndra build back when Stormsurge was overtuned and now there is the one with Viktor that was popularized by Veigar v2). If it works for you, that is great. But that doesn't mean it is objectively correct. There is more to a game of League of Legends than absolutely min-max perfecting your build, as even pros lose to the Shopkeeper.
You need your first target of the fight to be 1) grouped with his teammates 2) someone you can burst 100-0 before the passive procs 3) safely accessible (obviously) I guess some champs can pull that off but that sounds generally inconsistent
both are good, it probably just depends on whether you plan to hit low hit targets or higher hp targets more (which if ur going a squishy item like shadow/storm that probably means ur planning to hit low hp people). diana is consistent dmg also (many mini-hits rather than a few big hits)
Personally I disagree with the assessment that a champion is either a shadowflame champion or a stormsurge champion. in terms of the items' unqiue effects, this is correct, but the main thing is the flat pen. flat pen is only good when you have a lot of it. only having 10 flat pen is very negligible in terms of its effect on your overall damage. additionally, flat pen is less effective the more mr the enemy team has. so, for me, i either go a pen build or a different build (depending on the champ) depending on what the team im facing is. if im going to buy shadowflame, i'm always going to buy stormsurge and sorc boots too. i go so far as to only buy sorc shoes if im going to go full pen. if i dont plan on getting stormsurge and shadowflame (or if the enemy team is tanky), then the 12 mpen from sorc shoes is negligible and i will go with different shoes
stacking pen is good i agree, since i play in high rank the games have less kills and dont last as long so i rarely get past 4 items (in which case id wanna get rabadon or voidstaff before the game ends) so i didnt think of this. i also just rarely buy sorc shoes cause they seem trash to me (12 mpen for 800 gold) and either stay on t1 boots or get lucidity/swifties if they fit my champ
This showed up on my for you page. Thought I would share that because it means the algorithm chose you as a small creator to show me. I do agree mostly with the critting part of the argument, but I do think there are reasons to build shadowflame on some burst mages. First of all, the gold efficiency in shadowflame is more ap and pen, while stormsurge may have unwanted movespeed. Also, buying both on burst mages can be good with some builds. Flat magic pen is more effective against champs with low mr, and the only three items with flat magic pen (outside of malignance passive) are sorcerers boots, shadowflame, and stormsurge. Furthermore, shadowflame and stormsurge have great synergy with dartk harvest, as if they opponent survives the initial burst, they can die to the critting stormsurge and darkharvest proc for execute. Overall, I think it was a good video, and I like to hear your thoughts in response to these points. To be fair, most of this come from repeating what I've heard, as I am just a bronze player lol.
everything u said is right, i do think building both can be good especially if you are fed and can buy both rather quickly, though i do think of the movespeed from stormsurge as a very good bonus stat (on any champion besides yuumi i guess).
i could have put this in the video but i was focusing on statistics: ofc shadowflame can be a good item if your purpose in the game is to hit people below 40% (for example your team will get them low first, THEN you finish them off) but most poke/burst mages arent executing people, they are simply chunking them or straight up killing them from full hp (and when they ARE executing people, they probably have enough damage anyway).
Thank you. I guess move speed is a decent stat. It's definitely not the most necessary item i build. Usually only build it on hwei or ap seraphine because of her q execute damage.
@@warfaregzn6620 i think move speed is one of the more broken stats in the game so having more of it cant be bad
@@warfaregzn6620 move speed is arguably the most op stat in the game, that's why cloud drake has more winrate over the other souls
thank you ckreborn
commenting to boost algorithm
this is a great video
I think Shadowflames viability really depends on the percent of damage that falls under the threshold with stormsurge being better for melees and assassins and shadowflame being better for consistent. It also is enemy and itemisation dependant but a champ that does 5 instances of 19% max hp true damage wants stormsure more commonly than a champ that does 19 instances of 5%
im not entirely sure what you mean but any champ that does % hp damage such as a sol, singed, or gwen almost ALWAYS want shadowflame over stormsurge just bc the % hp dmg gets amplified by the % increase of shadowflame. gwen isnt as reliant on her passive damage anymore so stormsurge might be better but it is still OP to get a % increase on max hp% damage
so what is syndra? you briefly mentioned her but im curious if you think shes a shadow flame champ or not
personally i would ALWAYS go stormsurge on her because the stormsurge active (30sec cd) feels very nice on both her and orianna, not to mention syndra r eventually executes targets below 20% hp so the execute dmg of shadowflame is sort of wasted. BUT shadowflame is still good on syndra since she has sort-of-consistent damage so i can understand why some people would like it over stormsurge
Its awesome on xerath and he is THE BURST MAGE
yeah but u said its low cooldown so it works
xerath does consistent dps since he has low cooldowns and a lot of abilities 🤓so ermmm yea i agree its good on xerath
Ever since Stormsurge got more and more hit after its resurgence, it has been a niche item for champions that care about squeezing as much magic penetration as possible or their play pattern is revolved around absolutely 100-0 their opponents (to which I maybe agree, Zoe falls into that category as Shadowflame does not activate if you deal your damage above the threshold but Zoe is a champion that I almost never see), even the mentioned Lux deals her damage in 3 spells plus if you include the auto attack/s to maximize damage.
Outside of that, I disagree that it is better. Most of the mid lane mages that want to prioritize damage against squishies would go Luden's Companion into Shadowflame and we've seen plenty of times what the result is when you pair the two items alongside Sorcerer's Shoes against the targets in question. If you are unable to replicate the outcome, you wouldn't be able to replicate it with Stormsurge in place of Shadowflame.
My examples here would be Syndra or Orianna for example. Both can deal a large amount of damage in a matter of a second, but neither deal it in a single spell that brings you from full health directly into a gray screen, even Syndra's ultimate orbs each deal separate damage and even if I'm not bringing my math notebook with me - I am also confident in thinking that Shadowflame will deal more damage than the approximate ~140 of damage that the funny effect of Stormsurge.
You also fail to take into consideration the fact that the "active" of Stormsurge has a cooldown and unless you reach the takedown for the effect to hit others - it's simply used on a single champion and it's out for the next 30s. Shadowflame scales better in that regard as you can keep taking advantage of that effect as a fight keeps progressing.
"Hwei is not a champion with low cooldowns" is a funny take given that you are looking at a singular point Q and saying that, it's already -2 seconds of cooldown with your current haste.
To what you also mention in a comment "but most poke/burst mages arent executing people, they are simply chunking them or straight up killing them from full hp", I covered some of it in my own comment but also it's not about executing or not, it's the fact that you are dealing way more damage by going Shadowflame against the targets you are buying those items against. If you are looking to poke tanks, or champions with high maximum hp - then you are looking in the wrong category of items.
In my eyes, the only time Stormsurge is includeed in a build is when you are trying to maximize the flat magic penetration on a champion that does not take slot for a Lost Chapter item (for example Akali or Elise, but there used to be that variant of a Syndra build back when Stormsurge was overtuned and now there is the one with Viktor that was popularized by Veigar v2).
If it works for you, that is great. But that doesn't mean it is objectively correct. There is more to a game of League of Legends than absolutely min-max perfecting your build, as even pros lose to the Shopkeeper.
read everything u said and forgot everything already but u prob right 👍
I just dislike the high cooldown on stormsurge.
It's good at bursting an isolated target but in teamfights shadowflame's passive has higher value
But if you get the Stormsurge explosion off in a teamfight that's pretty strong right
You need your first target of the fight to be
1) grouped with his teammates
2) someone you can burst 100-0 before the passive procs
3) safely accessible (obviously)
I guess some champs can pull that off but that sounds generally inconsistent
I know Diana is an assassin but what would be better for her shadowflame or stormsurge?
both are good, it probably just depends on whether you plan to hit low hit targets or higher hp targets more (which if ur going a squishy item like shadow/storm that probably means ur planning to hit low hp people). diana is consistent dmg also (many mini-hits rather than a few big hits)
Personally I disagree with the assessment that a champion is either a shadowflame champion or a stormsurge champion. in terms of the items' unqiue effects, this is correct, but the main thing is the flat pen.
flat pen is only good when you have a lot of it. only having 10 flat pen is very negligible in terms of its effect on your overall damage. additionally, flat pen is less effective the more mr the enemy team has. so, for me, i either go a pen build or a different build (depending on the champ) depending on what the team im facing is. if im going to buy shadowflame, i'm always going to buy stormsurge and sorc boots too.
i go so far as to only buy sorc shoes if im going to go full pen. if i dont plan on getting stormsurge and shadowflame (or if the enemy team is tanky), then the 12 mpen from sorc shoes is negligible and i will go with different shoes
stacking pen is good i agree, since i play in high rank the games have less kills and dont last as long so i rarely get past 4 items (in which case id wanna get rabadon or voidstaff before the game ends) so i didnt think of this. i also just rarely buy sorc shoes cause they seem trash to me (12 mpen for 800 gold) and either stay on t1 boots or get lucidity/swifties if they fit my champ
@@ck286reborn yes either sit on t1 or swifties is op but only the pros know this 👽