*THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ASTEL'S GOMENNASAI STREAM YESTERDAY* What do you guys think about this topic? I kinda agree with Astel. It's true that we are his fan but it's not like we can meet him in person and his actual real friend. Also when a vtuber gets big, it's true that we are influenced by them and just like Astel said, if they say something bad, it could affect their image. Especially, if it's a new viewer tuning in at a bad timing. So let's all be careful, think before we talk and stuff. Anw been thinking a lot of what I want to do in the future stuff + the moving out thingy as well, so yea sorry for not uploading, but I'm not disappearing chill 👻
I saw the gomennasai stream yesterday but i didn't understand much. Are you going to make a video about it to explain it more? I think many of us would appreciate it greatly I think it was something about him not being able to deliver the content he was hoping for and that he wanted to say sorry to the listeners, but it was all quite messyin the moment and there might have been poor translations, so i'd really like some more clarification on it. Especially since he even started to cry
Uh, so, the gomennasai stream is basically he had this plans(he didn't specify what plans) to do but management said he can't do it (yet, probably). He probably got a little bit depressed about it cuz he felt he can't fullfil his listeners expectations (which is not true at all) and that's why he did that stream, he apologized to us about it(the plans). I said he's really hard to himself, he always push himself to become more and more. For me, I'm happy if he's happy, I love him the way he is-not because of some specific things he has or anything. Fans already told their thoughts about him and said that they will support him doing whatever he wants. It's okay if the plans don't work out now cuz he has a long way ahead. It's okay to not be okay. Ngl I'm kinda glad he decided to share his feeling with us even tho it's probably hard for him to say Edit: also he's NOT graduating Edit: some typos
He pretty much explained how parasocial relationships work and his stance on them. When streamers say they love their fans, they mean "them" as a group of people, not as individuals. But of course, fans get the impression that the streamer loves them back on a personal level, when in reality they don't know you and you don't know them aside of what they've revealed about themselves. I've seen cases where fans try to contact a celebrity casually, then get offended/hurt when they get ignored and be like "I thought you cared about me!"
That example you mentioned is already happened to Izuru, well it's not like they tried to dm him or something, but the case is somewhat similar. It made Izuru ranted for more than 10 minutes
Something that isn’t discussed as often is that the parasocial relationship works both ways and that even the streamer/celebrity gets too caught up sometimes.
To be honest, they probably love us as individuals too. If someone decided to leave (who didn't give money) and never came back, I'm sure almost all of them would feel sad. It's just there are so many of us. We are not true friends because the fact is there are too many of us for them to care for. It doesn't matter if you're their biggest fan or not, they can't just magically create time for you and the 1000 other people hoping for the same. They care about us, but they can't be our friends.
This is something the Kizuna Ai fandom really failed at in 2018 when she split her actresses. She put in a lot of effort to carefully explain that Kizuna ai's charcater is something to be shared, the shallow end of parasocial relationship where we realize that the tatemae character is nothing but the sum of everything we push onto it. It is defined socially by others maybe even more so than by the person herself, and anybody whose shallowest side FITS Kizuna Ai, IS Kizuna Ai, that collection of connections is what creates her. The changes in how she is perceived is the process of growing as a social, not intimate, person, and that's the whole "artificial intelligence" lore foundation. But fans absolutely campaigned to bring that potential down, going so far as to lie about her being fired and pretend they're just compassionately white-knighting her interest as the "correct" Kizuna Ai. As the hard working creator, Non-chan was pushed to completely just be a puppet held by the strings of where "fans" want Kizuna Ai to be, just a fantasy of intimacy with the actress. If you've seen Plastic Memories, it's like not giving her that final visit to the park. Only in a shallow sense, but it's the same kind of cut to the heart.
Astel and Izuru are both close friends, and they are both savage, extremely blunt, and honest about things. But I love both of them for that. It is refreshing.
He's always been the blunt type, he and Izuru are. They speak with no filter about these things and that's what I like about them. No sugarcoating, just straightforward. Ig that's probably why they're close too, the same mindsets they share.
@@alexandriaorcld6365 I'm not familiar with these two, but this video was the furthest thing from savage or blunt. Heck, he even said he was putting it softly, clearly because he didn't want to upset his fans.
I remember this stream. If I recall correctly he tweeted “I’ll kill any lover than an astella has” right after the stream as a yandere joke lol. So like, we’re not his friend but also we can’t have any lovers 🔪🔪🔪
oooh thanks for the follow-up, Lil! That's a pretty-silly-but-creative-follow-up-joke from Astel, too! 1:04 So in this talk, Astel tried to be as clear and direct as possible in conveying what he thinks about the relationship between him and his fans (hinting at parasocial-relationship-dynamics), then later on Twitter he delivers that line... Hopping in and out the line between the serious and the silly... ganba Astel! Thanks for the comments, minna, and thanks for the clip, too, Takamaru!
Okay, but can we all acknowledge that just as much of a point he's making, his fans are also very considerate too? The whole time he's talking they are literally typing うん and そう meaning they are agreeing with him and actually listening to what he has to say, instead of arguing or being offended.
I'm not a content creator but this is exactly why I agree with Astel: a lot of content creators immediately act that they are very close with their fans or audiences, for the sake of more recognition. Fake reactions or overreactions and becoming a tryhard to provide content can be the consequence of that. In our boi Astel's case he's keeping it real, because from what he said, I assume he knows exactly the position he and his fellow holostars bois are in.
"a lot of content creators immediately act that they are very close with their fans or audiences, for the sake of more recognition" okay but conversely you see people saying the opposite, like Astel here, and fans get all upset and full of denial. let's not forget at the end of the day the real issue is viewers developing unhealthy relationships with the people they watch.
@@FBread-xj8qk It doesn't help that the world has been sucking for a good long while now, so there's a lot of sad and/or lonely people around these days.
A lot of content creators put on fake acts of being very friendly & close for the sake of recognition/popularity, but this behavior isn't always fake. Sure, there will always be that parasocial barrier, and content creators inevitably care about fans more in the abstract than as specific, recognized individuals, but some genuinely care more than others. A good example is Ironmouse: thanks to her chronic health condition, she has to stay at home all the time & gets virtually all of her socialization from the internet. Again, that parasocial barrier is still there, but she clearly cares more about her fans than most content creators, because her fans objectively mean more to her than they would to most content creators due to how restricted her life is. She, and people like her (emotionally and/or situationally), are obviously the exception, not the rule, but I still felt compelled to say this.
@@Harril8265 I agree with you, 100%. Despite what I said, it's not as if I can simplify everything to "Oh they're content creators, ALL of them are just faking their care for their viewers for likes bla bla". It would be an insult to content creators who do genuinely care for their fans. The sad part is that there are indeed, of course fans who have delusions that just because a content creator does indeed genuinely care, some fans would act as if they immediately have the right to interfere with the creator's personal life. The opposite is true, some creators use their fans' genuine care to manipulate them or do things that are regarded as bad or immoral. Thank you for your input mate, it made me realize that there are indeed content creators with genuine intent, care and even concern for their fans. I could not have worded it better.
Asstel seems to have handled this very well. This distance is just something that needs to exist tbh. There's no possible way someone can become friends and worry for more than 1000 people at the same time, I'm sure most people understand this. Respect for Astel has certainly gone Up!
Despite all the jokes and memes, Astel thinks the most rationally among the rest. The amount of thinking he does surprises me at times, but he keeps it real.
It isn't that he thinks more rationally he is just more open about it. I'm sure that other vtubers have similar thoughts as he does they jost don't want to talk about it in their streams. Astrel among many streamers and vtubers is someone who is more open when it comes to his thoughts about things. Which is ok but it isn't necessary. Streamers and vtubers don't have to speak out about their thoughts in things. They are entertainers who sole purpose is to entertain.
it's not that he is the only one who thinks this. Huge tracts of income depend on obsessed simps imagining they have a relationship with an idol. Especially idols. To shatter that illusion is to forgo hella money. The ones cultivating a parasocial following...they are just playing along for business' sake
He’s not the only one who thinks likes this but he address it more then the others. Marine also said something similar to this where fans shouldn’t depend on Vtubers a lot as well
We aren't friends, but we can be friendly with one another. Streamers see their audience as a collective, as a group. We see streamers as content to enjoy. On paper, it's a fairly simple relationship, but there are many pitfalls both fans and streamers should watch out for. In a way, it is sort of a bit like being a teacher. A good teacher should be close to their students, but also set boundaries so that you are still seen as a figure of authority by the students.
"You are simply a single person out of millions, they care about their audience as a group, but as an individual, you are a stranger." "You could stop watching their streams tomorrow and stop donating, and they wouldn't even notice you were gone at all." From a post I once read on r/VirtualTH-camrs about forming parasocial relationships with VTubers.
Pls don’t mind me, I’m just fascinating about the word “parasocial” and its meaning. This word gives me a vibe like a cold air of philosophy breaching from the air-conditioned room.
While I mostly agree, I think the 2nd statement is more accurate for large channels. I've been watching a lot of smaller groups these days, and they are very attentive when a person who used to regularly chat reappears after a long absence.
Yea, you'll have to be throwing red bricks at the streamer every 5 minutes for them to remember you. And even then they're not your friend or anything. Its just that they remember your name because it appears more often.
When he said "we aren't actual friends" Something inside me shake then I realized I made a made up world inside me that was about to reject his logic We are just their fans, nothing more nothing less, and will always will be just fans We will support, cry, be happy, be sad with them, laugh, joke, prank, effort, suprise and etc with them, but we are just fans and an idol, and that's what all there is to it
It is okay. Just do not make it akin to a co-dependent relationship where you rely on that other person so much that 'you' is gone. Also, the definition of friend varies from people to people, but they can never be a genuine true 'best friend'.
Straight fact. Thats why I really couldn't care less about aloe stuff back then, I like them as a content, not as a person. Some might hate me for this, but its a fact. What happen to us have zero value to them, and vice versa.
My respect sky rocketed for this man. Not only does he let his heart out being vulnerable about how hes feeling but he also has the balls to tell a community like Hololives who are filled with people that become obsessed with their favourite vtube star that he's not their friend. Hololive thrives on marketing towards lonely simps who need to escape reality in some form and in turn gets those said people to grow attached to these 2d characters. I cant think of a vtuber who's willing to break it to a community like this because he probably lost fans because of this and is a wake up call for a lot of vtuber fans in general. The man has morals and can't sit with the fact that people think they're close to him when in reality theyre just fans. Astel is truly a real one.
If he lost "fans" because of this then they're not fans. Those are just delusional people who can't face the reality. It's also not about thinking rationally, it's about having the balls to address this. I'm pretty sure most of them think like this, but given most of their non confrontational and introverted personality they choose not to talk about it.
@@scyred4568 um no most of the others don’t want to open up about this because they don’t want to lose fans and cause a stir and fans is a subjective terms doesn’t matter if they’re “real” fans or not but anyone who constantly comes to watch x streamer is a fan of them regardless of how “real” they are.
I can relate to him on hating the "distance" relationship. No matter how many people you talk to online (for my instance, my friends both irl and online that i can only talk to in chat), nothing beats having someone that you can actually meet in person. Especially for those people who are living alone, that "distance" relationship can really make you feel lonely. 😔
There’s another detail to it. Astel himself said that he can’t really have an intimate conversation with his audience. Like if they things that hurt the other’s feelings they cant really work it out. You can definitely those kinda talks with others online like in a private chat but not in certain settings like a livestream or a comment section.
Astel is incredibly based here. This is what every streamer should be saying to ensure that the members of the audience do not develop parasocial relationship with them. There was another Western Twitch Streamer who said a similar thing just much more bluntly. I will always respect this kind of serious honest talk, it shows responsibility and care for the fanbase.
I remember before he passed away, Totalbiscuit would have to say something like that every once in a blue moon. He tried to make it clear that they weren't friends: he was providing a service (entertainment), and we were his customers (only some of whom paid for the service being provided). I always respected his level-headed approach to streaming, and the lengths he went to informing his viewers about things happening within the gaming industry and gaming journalism as a whole. Especially even if the face of sometimes stiff resistance from the drama-filled industry and people who leeched off of it.
It's also not just about being friends with the streamer, but the streamer also can't be giving that kind of trust to random people they haven't met irl yet. Even if it's something like vrchat, if you haven't met that actual person face to face irl giving them that kind of trust is unwise.
I’ve had closer relationships with a lot people I’ve interacted with online than with a lot of people I’ve met irl but I’ve never been as close to someone online as some irl friends I’ve had.
@@Nadia-nt8gb i think the message he was trying to convey was that while he has more relationships or friendships online, it still doesn't compare with the closeness he has witht the few irl friends he has. At least that's what i think
huh? you dont get it. its not online vs irl. its about that he is an entertainer and we are viewers. theres a distance that needs to be kept. not because its online, but because thats the nature of this kind of relationship. theres many thousands of us, its impossible to have a relationship closer than this. it's nothing comparable to vrchat at all. i trust some of my vrchat friends more than anyone i've ever met irl. thats because they're my friends, and we've spent time building the trust between us. in a way vrchat is more real than real life, because people can present themselves how they see themselves, and can be themselves freely without worries. don't devalue those kinds of friendships. not to say irl friendships aren't great too, but i've never had one that could compare to the closeness and trust i have with some of my vrchat friends.
This is very important guys, gals, and that technicolor rainbow in between. Part of their job is pretty much to act like our friends, but its never actually possible. That is the very nature of a parasocial relationship. They are good, but they are *not* replacements for actual companionship for the viewer or the streamer. Its a social band-aid, not end goal. We as viewers must understand this.; if viewers stick to only forming online relationships as such, we will always have a hole in our hearts that will never be filled. Tough, but thems the breaks.
@@heerotomoe Thanks, got the idea from a song actually. And oh man, I could go so much deeper into this. Our generations Young Millennials to Gen Z are facing a problem unlike pretty much anything in history with the compartmentalization of our social and economic lives which contrasts with the way a human has biologically and societally evolved. At least its not war or famine, but its still a problem. Almost makes me want to become a vtuber to directly talk about this stuff.
This is really why I’m such a fan of Astel, even beyond his talent and ability to entertain. He’s so freaking genuine, and manages to be that while also conveying a sense of warmth and good will. I think the streamer-listener relationship has an important part in today’s society, especially this past year. It almost acts as an interim between traditional relationships of all sorts - whether that be family, lover, or friend. You can liken it to a temporary haven that gives you strength for the next part of your journey. But it’s important to know this new type of relationship is very different than the real give-and-take of a full on relationship. It’s not that the streamer-listener relationship is fake. I really don’t think it has to be; however, staying grounded and not falling into delusions is *absolutely* vital. Thanks so much for picking such an interesting clip to translate.
good on him to acknowledge the nature of parasocial relationships... i feel like some streamers and many, MANY fans can forget about this. it's especially heavy of a burden when people keep sending like "you saved my life, your videos are the only reason i'm still here" messages to streamers: these people DO NOT KNOW YOU and are not here for you in specific. It's always a wonderful thing when we can connect with someone's content and it can bring some light in our lives, but in the end it's no different from enjoying the music of your favorite artist or a book that you love. It is a relationship you develop with the content- not with the real person behind it, and that is normal and natural as long as you don't stake your entire wellbeing on that content. But it's always important to remember that this relationship does not flow both ways, and furthermore, that the person behind that content does not personally owe you anything.
This is the classic brutal honesty I've come to expect from Astel, but I'm glad he's saying it. It's an important message for people to hear and understand.
to me, it's not bad to send something like "you brought me out of depression because of your videos" but adding "your the only reason why I'm still alive" is just way too much and kills the heartfelt message. it's like saying "keep streaming or I'll k*ll myself" it just sounds really obsessive. the streamer doesn't know the fan and their problems, and they wont specifically keep streaming just so the one fan doesnt die.
always appreciating how honest astel is. hearing it might be painful for some people but it's an important thing to keep in mind and to avoid becoming over delusional and I think astel handled it really well
If one gets offended of his words, it means that they made theirselves believe that they had a co-independent relationship with him. It's a good thing that he talks about this time to time because people snap out of it, letting them know that in the end, they support astel just like everybody else is. I got offended after watching this long ago, but he made me realize that I built myself a world where it just evolved around vtubers and myself.
100% agree, he's spitting the fact. Streamers are entertainer, not your friend. If they stop streaming, you stop watching, you are not gonna be invited to their birthday party, gender reveal or even their funeral. They dont even know you are exist. The parasocial is a bit dangerous, Marine said "if you dont happy if you dont hear my voice, its a sign of bad things. Dont put your happines on someone else, that kind of dependency is really dangerous". I saw someone donated to streamer "you 'streamer X' saved my life from blablabla" saving from what? You are just escaping from reality for just 5 hours. This community still growing and cant be stopped at some point, hopefully a lot of people understand this kind of relationship. This also remembers me of clip that Twitch streamers hangs out with her biggest donators that she never seen them before, which resulting very awkward situation.
I completely agree, and I've unfortunately had an experience with what I'd guess you call a toxic fan. So I can kinda relate to him, just not on the same scale lol I'm a real small TH-camr & Twitch streamer, and I have a small discord to talk and interact with my mates and people who watch, the basic stuff y'know? A few months ago I got a new guy who became a regular in my streams and joined the discord. He'd try and talk with me almost anytime I was online and such. I felt obligated to always respond back, since I don't have many reoccurring viewers in the first place, and I believe it's also part of a streamer's job to interact with people in chat. However over time he got closer to what you'd call obsessive. I always had thoughts like "He might get out of hand eventually" but hoped it wouldn't happen. Eventually he changed twitch user to a joke name including my name. When I was watching one of my friends stream, he joined in chat and pretended to be my alt, and would very frequently ask to talk to me in the discord VC. I was kinda annoyed by the alt thing, but other than that I wasn't bothered much. Soon enough he had commented and liked every one of my videos, and was watching every stream of mine he could. As time went on he got more and more combative, as he tried to find new topics to talk about we'd argue more and more. It's hard tp really explain, but he pushed everyone away really. A couple of my personal friends didn't want to talk in my discord anymore because he'd hop right into the middle of the conversation and insert himself. Like Astel says in this clip, I was hesitant to really do anything because he hadn't broken any of my rules, and I didn't want him to hate me. And I didn't want to come to hate part of my small fanbase. The final straw came when he tried to come between me and one of my closest friends I've known for years saying "Why are you friends with this guy" and telling my friends to kill himself. I got onto him and had to break to him this hard truth. Even if I barely have a fanbase, I still don't know them personally. I got caught in between trying to make sure I'm not hated, and how close I'll let fans get to me. I don't use facecam and my name isn't readily available because I want some distance between things. So it made me uncomfortable when he'd repeatedly ask about my sexuality. When I got onto him and told him the difference between my friends I personally knew, and people who find me randomly on YT/Twitch, and how he has absolutely no say on who my friends are, he got very upset. "But I liked every one of your videos!" "I watch you stream all the time!" he said. He tried to use it as leverage because of all he's done for me. I told him I never asked him to do any of that, it was his own free will. He tried to guilt trip me (I'm not sure if he meant to or not tho) and eventually asked if I still wanted him here. I told him that he broke a rule, so I gave him his first warning, and that it's not up to if I want him to be here or not. If he broke the rules again, he'd be kicked, but if he doesn't, he's welcomed to stay. I knew he wanted me to say I wanted him here, and validate him, but I took the neutral stance. Because I didn't give him the validation he wanted, he got mad again and eventually left. Moral of the story, creators have to be careful about how close they let fans. Because if they don't set their own boundaries, someone will try to get as close as they can and they won't be self aware enough to see they're making the creator uncomfortable. I was kinda lucky that I dealt with something like this early on. It was a learning experience I guess lol. Unfortunately, some people won't care about the boundaries their favorite creator make. They'll write fanfics or smut when the creator is uncomfortable with it. Or they'll steal information and find out what they look like. I'm sure we all can think of horror stories of deranged fans. What Astel said really is a hard truth I think, especially in this branch of TH-cam. Since they're idols, many of them release voice packs saying things like "I love you" and such, and thank every superchatter at the end of streams. This closes the gap between them and the viewers, and because of it certain stan groups or individual crazed fans will try and use that as an excuse in their head to believe they really are friends with them. Oh God I really typed an essay huh? Well, maybe part of me just wanted to get it off my chest lol. Hopefully it was interesting or insightful if you read it all. Just my experience with something related to the clip.
There's some horror stories about what some obsessive and abusive fans have done to small creators that they've claimed ownership over. Good for you for recognizing the problematic behavior early and addressing it, responsibly.
Izuru also had an excellent rant about the relationship between fans and vtuber and it was pretty funny. Seems both Astel and Izuru know when to lay down the law and create boundaries.
This is called "Parasocial Relationship" and I'm glad that he is addressing it. Most fans got too hooked up and think they are the friends of the streamers while not understanding that the streamers have never even seen them before.
isnt that the whole anime maniac people thing?? some even make some character as their waifu either as a joke, virtually, and some even marry it for real in reality(i mean it's still virtual but they bring it to the physical places and to church n temple) that's why.. dealing with degenerates and maniacs is a dangerous thing. But hololive playing around with this region. That's why they got a lot of harassment this and that there.. and also weird people. Haato even call her fanbase degenelates and they love it. seems like the most concentrated degenerates is in haaton group.. the haato fanbase. the duality of hololive.. some talents keep trying to talk about corruption stuff like sexuality, swear words, etc, bu some talents just want to keep the fans polite, normal, no horni, etc. they want lewd n harsh but at the same time, they dont want to get troubles..
While it does admittedly hurt to hear “we aren’t friends” so bluntly, its still a logic that I recognize and adhere to. We exist as a Gestalt entity to them. While we can learn a surprising amount about them if they decide to share it, from their perspective we are an unknowable collective. But just because our relationship isn’t a particularly deep one doesn’t mean it can’t be a warm one. We laugh and cry and cheer together, and we support them through thick and thin. In return, a lot of content creators are incredibly fond of the collective of people that follow them, even if we will never truly know eachother. They push themselves almost to the breaking point because of that relationship. So yeah, just because our relationship with them is too distant to be properly considered “friends”, that doesn’t mean it is a cynical and cold relationship instead. Its when people forget that they are a face in a crowd or when the talents forget they are talking to a crowd that problems get born.
What he's saying is the most obvious thing in the world to someone on the outside. Some fans create their own illusions of a relationship as a defense mechanism to shield them from the harsh realities of their lives. They need help and real friends to turn to, not more super chats
The simple truth is that they give us entertainment, and in return we give them our support, and in some cases our money. We're buying a service, not forming a friendship, and it gets toxic when people don't acknowledge that fact. I think it's fine to feel the same affection for a streamer you'd feel towards a friend. After all you spend hours a day watching them, laughing with them and experience fun highs and lows with them, but you always have to remember that to them, you're just a stranger.
Massive respect to Astel for being willing to talk about this topic and being honest about it. Personally, I don't find his words offensive at all because I can sense the sincerity in them to maintain a good relationship with his viewers.
Thanks for the translation! Yeah this topic is kinda hard but its good for everyone to know what the relationship between a streamer and the viewers is.
sometimes I see people superchat with messages that get really intense and personal and I just think about how weird it must feel to get sent stuff like that from total strangers
Seeing some comments getting angry makes me chuckle a little bit. It's a harsh truth but it's the truth regardless.. I do wish these people will understand someday so they won't get stuck on the illusion of parasocial relationship.
Not only in vtubing, relationship on the internet itself is basically like this most of the time. You can care about a person, but ultimately they are across the world so you can't really help them or anything. Imo, the distance itself is important- it's because they are beyond reach that we can aim for them, it is because looking from afar is the only thing we can do is why we look out for them. And this is why, despite the distance, vtuber's happiness is the listener's happiness, and the vtuber's sadness is the listener's sadness too.
thats not true.. distance doesn't mean you can't help your friends. i can still talk to my friends and support them when they need it, in vrchat i can even hug them. if they need something, i can get them most things. i can't run to their house with food and spend the day with them, but we can get on vrchat or just call together and play all kinds of games or just chill watching videos together. i can order them food if they mention they're hungry. we can laugh together, cry together, spend our days together and fall asleep together. you really cant compare that to the distance between fans and vtubers.
I just realized how holostar is always genuine and direct they are, I can still remember this stream where Astel talk about vtuber-fans relationship, also izuru and Roberu they also talk about this issue no sugarcoat just straight fact
I think it's a great slap of reality, but it still hits like a truck I'll be honest, I tend to put a lot of value to the things or people that bring me happiness, but oftentimes I forget that I'm just a fan, they don't know me, I don't know them, I'll never be in any sort of relationship with them besides being one of thousands or millions of fans. It's great to have someone you look up to so much actually bring you back to reality to keep you from making those mistakes that can hurt you, and it's great advice in general, but it still makes my chest feel weird after hearing it. Anyways, thanks for the translation, It's really nice to know Astel's stance on this subject, I'll gladly take his advice
Simple rule on the internet: Don't get personal. I love these guys for what they do, but I understand that I am just another fan to them. I don't see them as friends because I don't know who they really are. They're like superheroes. Admire and love them for what they do, but don't get too close to them or you will put them and yourself in danger.
I'm shocked at how many people struggle with this. I love this community and do think of the girls (and guys) as being a part of it their own way, but ultimately I don't know them and they don't know me. It's kind of liberating that way. A true no strings relationship.
Hmm... as much as the word "we aren't friend" kinda hurt, I agree with it. There's a lot of content creators that I unsubscribe after they do something that I don't like. What I mean by "something I don't like" is something like putting up an unnecessary drama or giving a false information and don't bother to correct it. Like what Astel say, if I and those content creators are a true friend, I'll come back after maybe several days. But what I do (and still will do) is unsubscribe, then click on the "don't recommend this channel". They are an entertainer, while I'm their consumer. I won't waste my limited internet data and time for things that's not entertaining for me. Kinda cruel, but that's how things work.
Lol, we have never been friends of these vtubers. Never. At all. We are just fans that gives them feedback so that they can entertain us more. That is the harsh truth. That is why I never attach myself to them but watch them peacefully from afar. So, I can cheer for them at the sidelines while also being easy to detach from them once its necessary.
Tbh this is the exact thing I needed to hear at the right moment. I’ve been going through a phase where I think I needed to be famous and have a lot of fans in order to have fulfilling relationships. While not exactly the same thing Astel is talking about, there is a similar theme. Thank you for uploading this.
"Let's care for each other" I understand Astel's sudden periods of loneliness, the distance makes it hard for viewers to have the level of understanding about him that he wants. He is right, I'm glad he always has the courage to bring up topics like this.
I’m so happy he said this. There really needs to be a distance when it comes to creators and their fans. Even if they say you’re like a friend or family. The truth is you’re NOT. You don’t know this person, they’re just a character. I feel especially strong about this considering all the accusations coming forward about youtubers grooming fans. (Not at all saying Astel is a groomer. This can go both ways.) Please stay safe, everyone!
Astel's right and it goes both ways. It's easy for a vtuber/streamer to believe we are their friends, and it's also easy for us to believe they are our friends, but it's not true. However, I think it's completely okay that we are important to each other. Vtubers are entertainers, and we are the audience. There is a positive feedback relationship where we encourage them and want them to succeed, and they use that to make the experience more enjoyable. Hololive and vtubers in general are taking us for a ride, and one day it'll end, but it's a damn good ride.
Very well said. Unfortunately this is an issue that doesnt just affect vtubers but every form of media and content creation. And the times that people actually handle it correctly or address it in a non-hurtful manner are rare at best. I'm glad this exsists cause it can either fix the issue before it starts or give the oppurtunity for a creator to address it in their own community.
honestly i'm surprised so many people actually saw internet personalities as friends or someone they have a relationship with. i've always just seen people like vtubers as entertainers or people i think seem nice.
Yeah I feel this. Like I may really care about their content and like them but I never see them as friends. It’s kind of interesting how many ppl do see it like that tho
Thanks a lot for translating this almost year old stream. This really just made me like Astel more as a person, and somehow kinda "justify" my view/thoughts of him being a really genuine, deep-thought, well-spoken, and overall a very self-aware guy. As someone who's also self-aware, the way Astel's thought process goes, from what I've seen and heard, just shows how much he thinks about every sort of things carefully, in every possible perspective, rationally, objectively, and emotion-wise (especially, ESPECIALLY, with the other night's evening stream, and a certain son's sudden bankatsu(??)/late night stream, piece it together and you'll get an idea of the opinion I'm trying to relay here, don't wanna go too in depth about it 'cause i don't want to make assumptions as much as i see it to be a veeeeeerryy considerate move from the space seaweed, tl;dr: not putting words in his mouth). His beliefs and opinions as well (in this video), speaks the truth, as much as some people see it "harsh", etc., and him handling it this well, i think is one of his strongest suits. I don't really have any opinion about this whole streamer-viewer relationship thing aside from i definitely agree with it, since that's how i always see it, as well. I also want to take note that Astel bringing this up and giving a sort of "reality check" might have been influenced by gachikois or hard-core borderline or sometimes stalker-ish fans (someone please explain this term better), or maybe it's just his way of looking out for himself and his fans altogether, but then again, I'm not putting words in his mouth, this is just a little opinion of mine.
Yeah, it's harsh, but it's always better than not accepting the truth and keeping up an unhealthy mindset... I'm glad Astel knows about this and addressed it, because I've seen cases of people not being able to accept the truth or don't want to say it, making everything more complicated
It's sad that it can't replace existing concept of friends, but I am just glad to have this different kind of ...relationship? beside the traditional friendship. Like another option. Just gotta remind myself that they are different, and that this one is bit more limited and harsh, not because we wanted. I appreciate that he said he hates we can't get rid of the distance.
The reason why holostars and astel gachikois are silent. He's setting clear boundaries and keeping it real from the start and I love it. I may be a simp for vtubers but i don't want to know them irl like this illusion is ok for me
This is how it is for any content creator. Unfortunately some people are dillusional. It's fine to support or like them, and even look up to them. But they are in no way friends with us on a personal level.
I've been into this Holostars fandom recently and I kinda understand what he's saying. We are in an fan-idol relationship. We are not his friends but we act like we are one. It's merely for the purpose of entertainment which is something everyone should keep in mind. A lot of the fans forgot this and they ended up being so attached to their idols that when the news of them leaving, getting married or whatever sort, it actually break them because they build this idea that "these guys are my friends" or that "this guy/girl is my lover" etc which could really end up in a worse case scenario of dark intentions. That's why when I follow someone, I just look up to them but I never really attach any feelings. It's merely for the purpose of entertainment so I that I don't get hurt in the future
i know for some fans this topic can be a hard pill to swallow, but it’s the truth. you and your favorite streamer are not friends and most likely will never be. the relationship you have with them is purely of an entertainer and their fan. you may think you know them, but they do not know you. so no matter how you look at it you are still strangers. so at the end of the day, we are fans nothing more nothing less. honestly, i enjoy hearing astel talk because he shares his thoughts and always keeps it real. edit: it now make why he call us his wives and husbands
@@heerotomoe Actually it is possible fof you to be friends with them but it goes a long way and it take dedication. You do your work related to holo company determined to be notice if lucky they will noticed. Just like Kanauru, Mamaloni, KeenBiscuit, EbiBeam and Farhan who have dedicate since day 1 are like friends to them. Its extremely difficult but not impossible. So Astel little to know he says crap
Its indeed true (in almost all cases, albeit i think there could exist very rare exception where some streamer would think of listener's as close to-be friends, cus not all people are good with having social life\actual friends irl), its only a common sense after all (in this para-social interactions). We just 'The Fans", the group without face to Streamers\Vlivers\etc. We may influence one another in happy or sad moments but thats it, and its okay. Its a different option of interaction elationship, that in its distance - it can be fascinating. Also its totally a thing about whole 'trust' and 'ability' issue too - in the age we are living in. Thats the thing with whole internet. But, personally i feel, the most important thing is that, actual friends or not, as this Astel says, Streamers\Vlivers create such, could i say, kinda unique environment and sometimes, at least try to care for\help each other in some way (and just have fun), regardless of the actual status or etc (as some streamers, is at least seems to be, kinda genuine ppl too). We may not be actual friends but we can still be friendly with one another as it last. Tho of course, in reality, its just that cruel truth and listeners with streamers will be always strangers, and in the end it will be always bittersweet at best. Its important to not be over-delusional, to have common sense, and just have a good time while you can (support amazing ppl while you can), if you want to. So its good that Astel speaks about it in this environment(he takes my sub for sure, huh).
Good on him to speak about this. While this clip is from August 2020, I still hope more streamers and Vtubers talk more about parasocial relationships and discuss it in a way that Astel did: honest and firm but not harsh and condescending. At the same time, though, I feel like Astel can talk about this because he's a smaller Vtuber (at least compared to his colleagues at Hololive) and also a guy. I can only imagine the kind of backlash someone with a much higher subscriber count/audience and is a girl--like, say, Fubuki or Marine--would get if they were to address this. I feel like a lot of their toxic fans would lose their fucking minds and conduct a smear/doxxing campaign.
Parasocial relationships have been a big point of conversation for a lot of streamers over the past year, so it's been interesting seeing the topic come up in Hololive various ways too (both directly and indirectly).
this and his disdain for possessive "fans" are the reason why Astel is my favorite vtuber... plus his Apex karaoke stream is one of the best experience out there, too bad its mostly unarchive but I guess that's one of the reason people look forward to his streams... he is so unpredictable to a point that I don't remember him posting his schedule for a week
the loneliness of the idol... It's something all public people have to learn to live with. That's the price of fame. However I'm a little concerned that he says it's already bothering and scaring him (especially since there is still a long way ahead in his vtuber career) At least It's a good sign he's being frank and honest about this with his listeners. Gambatte Astel!
This is very responsible of him. Even if an online personality is casual, one must always remember that that is merely to ensure that you have a better time watching. It does not mean the relationship has become casual.
@@CheetoPuff111 it doesn't necessarily has to be a sad thing honestly it just set a boundary and a reminder to the viewers that 1. they don't have any power or whatsoever to control them 2. to support them or not it is our choice 3. know our limit
I never thought someone would actually point it out themselves, even from the host itself to boot. We may be fans to him, but we were never that close to them. A VTuber is an alternate animated persona created by a corporate entity. And a connection built between the VTuber and his fans is surface-level. After all, you only knew the person as the VTuber, not as the actual person behind the animated persona.
Ludwig? Toast? Is that you? For real though, Astel spitting facts. This should just be common knowledge among both viewers who NEED to know it, and streamers who may have to verbalize it now and then.
Its doesnt matter if we are friends or not, i didnt care for the start but... CAN WE APRECIATE WHAT REINA HAD DONE?!?! Holy shit, that fast translation
pewdiepie pretty much achieved this kind of listeners - content creator relationship already even tho he says controversial things people still really enjoy pewdiepie, which is amazing. no wonder hes famous all things considered, astel is spiting facts
It is sad but totally true, you can't be friends with thousands of people that are not even the same every day and that have different personalities as individuals. You can care about your audience as a whole but you will remember only, if any, a few names of common viewers and they may dissapear and stop watching you anytime and you can't do anything about it. It is better if you do not get involved as an individual with your viewers at personal level and I think it is tough cause viewers usually demonstrate too much love that you cannot return to them.
Astel is being blunt so as to cut down on parasocial behaviour. Nice. I commented this on a clip of the Norio marriage announcement yesterday, but I feel like a few VTubers are a little irresponsible with the parasocial stuff because the boundaries aren't clearly laid out. Of course, the blame does not solely lie on the streamer because some fans will get overly attached to their fave streamer regardless of the situation.
“We aren’t actual friends, right?” _I felt that..._ *It really hits hard because, you know it’s the truth...* _But still I’m supporting to the end! Until he recognized us his friends..._
@@TakamaruKun Actually, we don't know them too. Like he said, meeting irl is completely different from this fan-vtuber relationship. It's kinda sad but also applies to us fans (fan-fan), not everyone would like each other if we met irl. But it's also nice to think that we are all able to come together even tough we don't know each other.
We may not be friends, but we can be friendly. We can still care for one another in a different way and I don't think that's any less real. But it is different than a friend.
Very innocent and adorable way of thinking but please no, u should realise how unhealthy it is to have this kinda mindset dude. What these streamers are doing is just their job as an online entertainer and our only role there is that of an spectator that may like their "peformances" to a degree to become a fan of them and support them (with likes, donations, views etc.) so that they can continue on well making streams with their entertaining personality, that we so much enjoy. They may care and appreciate very much their fans and the support to an degree but never ever to where they would see us as "friends" in the future.
Why do we use aliases online? Because putting yourself in front of thousands of strangers is dangerous, it can also be fun, exciting, rewarding and helpful, but it's not a normal social interaction. Some people might think the rules change once someone starts streaming for a living but they don't, they're a stranger to you and you're a stranger to them, think of it like going to a club and watching a comedian, they want to entertain and you want to be entertained, there's a happy bond there where both parties are enjoying each others company but it's not a friendship. Spend more time with each other and the bond grows stronger, of course, but the original conditions haven't changed. Don't let this affect your enjoyment of the content, just don't think it's more than it is.
I think what Astel says should be like the standard for all fan + "celebrity" relationships. I know many people find comfort in thinking their idol cares for them and likes them but it‘s impossible for the idol to do so. That doesn‘t mean both parties can‘t care for each other but a distance should be there.
Astel is Astel. I love his honesty. Chat was great too agreeing with him every step of the way... until Astel said the relationship between streamers and viewers is like lovers then they went "????" hahaha I get what he meant though haha
I tought abou this recently. And i think the correct way to see it is like pekora always says, we should see them as an idol or celebrity. Ofcourse they are closer but no more closer than replying our question (chat/sc) I do think they love their fans but not individualy, buat as whole. But that's just my opinion.
![Astel's Thoughts On Not Invited To Holo ID and Holostars Among Us, And About Holo ID Girls [ENGSUB]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RwOh0vUBWmQ/mqdefault.jpg)
*THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ASTEL'S GOMENNASAI STREAM YESTERDAY*
What do you guys think about this topic? I kinda agree with Astel. It's true that we are his fan but it's not like we can meet him in person and his actual real friend. Also when a vtuber gets big, it's true that we are influenced by them and just like Astel said, if they say something bad, it could affect their image. Especially, if it's a new viewer tuning in at a bad timing. So let's all be careful, think before we talk and stuff.
Anw been thinking a lot of what I want to do in the future stuff + the moving out thingy as well, so yea sorry for not uploading, but I'm not disappearing chill 👻
This just lit my curious about what the gomennasai stream is about...
I saw the gomennasai stream yesterday but i didn't understand much. Are you going to make a video about it to explain it more? I think many of us would appreciate it greatly
I think it was something about him not being able to deliver the content he was hoping for and that he wanted to say sorry to the listeners, but it was all quite messyin the moment and there might have been poor translations, so i'd really like some more clarification on it. Especially since he even started to cry
Also good work with the video as always! bless you for making these good edits with good translations
Hmm let me think about it. True that he cried yesterday but he didn't clearly say what was wrong
Uh, so, the gomennasai stream is basically he had this plans(he didn't specify what plans) to do but management said he can't do it (yet, probably). He probably got a little bit depressed about it cuz he felt he can't fullfil his listeners expectations (which is not true at all) and that's why he did that stream, he apologized to us about it(the plans). I said he's really hard to himself, he always push himself to become more and more. For me, I'm happy if he's happy, I love him the way he is-not because of some specific things he has or anything. Fans already told their thoughts about him and said that they will support him doing whatever he wants. It's okay if the plans don't work out now cuz he has a long way ahead. It's okay to not be okay. Ngl I'm kinda glad he decided to share his feeling with us even tho it's probably hard for him to say
Edit: also he's NOT graduating
Edit: some typos
Astel keeping it real since day 1
It hurts, but the man speaks the truth.
yeah
@@TerrestrisVerita it doesn't hurt me. Because that's how I've been thinking. I'm just a fan and that's it
@@testingdefense2472 A fan who've been used like a tool? Yeah not gonna be that dumb
He pretty much explained how parasocial relationships work and his stance on them.
When streamers say they love their fans, they mean "them" as a group of people, not as individuals. But of course, fans get the impression that the streamer loves them back on a personal level, when in reality they don't know you and you don't know them aside of what they've revealed about themselves.
I've seen cases where fans try to contact a celebrity casually, then get offended/hurt when they get ignored and be like "I thought you cared about me!"
That example you mentioned is already happened to Izuru, well it's not like they tried to dm him or something, but the case is somewhat similar. It made Izuru ranted for more than 10 minutes
Something that isn’t discussed as often is that the parasocial relationship works both ways and that even the streamer/celebrity gets too caught up sometimes.
ah the darkside of idol culture that people ignore. Paper by intellectuals shall be written in the future about this.
To be honest, they probably love us as individuals too. If someone decided to leave (who didn't give money) and never came back, I'm sure almost all of them would feel sad. It's just there are so many of us. We are not true friends because the fact is there are too many of us for them to care for. It doesn't matter if you're their biggest fan or not, they can't just magically create time for you and the 1000 other people hoping for the same. They care about us, but they can't be our friends.
This is something the Kizuna Ai fandom really failed at in 2018 when she split her actresses. She put in a lot of effort to carefully explain that Kizuna ai's charcater is something to be shared, the shallow end of parasocial relationship where we realize that the tatemae character is nothing but the sum of everything we push onto it. It is defined socially by others maybe even more so than by the person herself, and anybody whose shallowest side FITS Kizuna Ai, IS Kizuna Ai, that collection of connections is what creates her. The changes in how she is perceived is the process of growing as a social, not intimate, person, and that's the whole "artificial intelligence" lore foundation.
But fans absolutely campaigned to bring that potential down, going so far as to lie about her being fired and pretend they're just compassionately white-knighting her interest as the "correct" Kizuna Ai. As the hard working creator, Non-chan was pushed to completely just be a puppet held by the strings of where "fans" want Kizuna Ai to be, just a fantasy of intimacy with the actress. If you've seen Plastic Memories, it's like not giving her that final visit to the park. Only in a shallow sense, but it's the same kind of cut to the heart.
Love him or hate him he's speaking facts.
Damn never thought i'd hear that from astel.
That's true, he's speaking facts and it's reality. For me, what Astel is one of the "realest" vtuber out there
Astel and Izuru are both close friends, and they are both savage, extremely blunt, and honest about things. But I love both of them for that. It is refreshing.
He's always been the blunt type, he and Izuru are. They speak with no filter about these things and that's what I like about them. No sugarcoating, just straightforward. Ig that's probably why they're close too, the same mindsets they share.
@@alexandriaorcld6365 I'm not familiar with these two, but this video was the furthest thing from savage or blunt. Heck, he even said he was putting it softly, clearly because he didn't want to upset his fans.
@@Lalalin26 This clip definitely wasn't blunt, unfiltered, or un-sugarcoated. He was clearly making an effort to put it nicely, and even said as much.
All these languages and my man Astel chooses to speak fact
Fubuki: You are my best friend.
Fubuki fans: *Slowly dying inside*
Astel: We aren't actual friends.
Astel fans: We know.
I remember this stream. If I recall correctly he tweeted “I’ll kill any lover than an astella has” right after the stream as a yandere joke lol. So like, we’re not his friend but also we can’t have any lovers 🔪🔪🔪
oooh thanks for the follow-up, Lil! That's a pretty-silly-but-creative-follow-up-joke from Astel, too!
1:04 So in this talk, Astel tried to be as clear and direct as possible in conveying what he thinks about the relationship between him and his fans (hinting at parasocial-relationship-dynamics), then later on Twitter he delivers that line...
Hopping in and out the line between the serious and the silly... ganba Astel!
Thanks for the comments, minna, and thanks for the clip, too, Takamaru!
Okay, but can we all acknowledge that just as much of a point he's making, his fans are also very considerate too? The whole time he's talking they are literally typing うん and そう meaning they are agreeing with him and actually listening to what he has to say, instead of arguing or being offended.
I'm not a content creator but this is exactly why I agree with Astel: a lot of content creators immediately act that they are very close with their fans or audiences, for the sake of more recognition. Fake reactions or overreactions and becoming a tryhard to provide content can be the consequence of that. In our boi Astel's case he's keeping it real, because from what he said, I assume he knows exactly the position he and his fellow holostars bois are in.
"a lot of content creators immediately act that they are very close with their fans or audiences, for the sake of more recognition" okay but conversely you see people saying the opposite, like Astel here, and fans get all upset and full of denial. let's not forget at the end of the day the real issue is viewers developing unhealthy relationships with the people they watch.
@@PandaXs1 yeah, I totally agree with you mate, the unhealthy relationships you mentioned happen way too many times, sadly
@@FBread-xj8qk It doesn't help that the world has been sucking for a good long while now, so there's a lot of sad and/or lonely people around these days.
A lot of content creators put on fake acts of being very friendly & close for the sake of recognition/popularity, but this behavior isn't always fake. Sure, there will always be that parasocial barrier, and content creators inevitably care about fans more in the abstract than as specific, recognized individuals, but some genuinely care more than others. A good example is Ironmouse: thanks to her chronic health condition, she has to stay at home all the time & gets virtually all of her socialization from the internet. Again, that parasocial barrier is still there, but she clearly cares more about her fans than most content creators, because her fans objectively mean more to her than they would to most content creators due to how restricted her life is. She, and people like her (emotionally and/or situationally), are obviously the exception, not the rule, but I still felt compelled to say this.
@@Harril8265 I agree with you, 100%. Despite what I said, it's not as if I can simplify everything to "Oh they're content creators, ALL of them are just faking their care for their viewers for likes bla bla". It would be an insult to content creators who do genuinely care for their fans. The sad part is that there are indeed, of course fans who have delusions that just because a content creator does indeed genuinely care, some fans would act as if they immediately have the right to interfere with the creator's personal life. The opposite is true, some creators use their fans' genuine care to manipulate them or do things that are regarded as bad or immoral. Thank you for your input mate, it made me realize that there are indeed content creators with genuine intent, care and even concern for their fans. I could not have worded it better.
Asstel seems to have handled this very well. This distance is just something that needs to exist tbh. There's no possible way someone can become friends and worry for more than 1000 people at the same time, I'm sure most people understand this.
Respect for Astel has certainly gone Up!
Despite all the jokes and memes, Astel thinks the most rationally among the rest. The amount of thinking he does surprises me at times, but he keeps it real.
It isn't that he thinks more rationally he is just more open about it. I'm sure that other vtubers have similar thoughts as he does they jost don't want to talk about it in their streams. Astrel among many streamers and vtubers is someone who is more open when it comes to his thoughts about things. Which is ok but it isn't necessary. Streamers and vtubers don't have to speak out about their thoughts in things. They are entertainers who sole purpose is to entertain.
it's not that he is the only one who thinks this. Huge tracts of income depend on obsessed simps imagining they have a relationship with an idol. Especially idols. To shatter that illusion is to forgo hella money. The ones cultivating a parasocial following...they are just playing along for business' sake
@@WallyBDO truth right here
He overthinks too much and it's affecting his mental health. He needs to treat himself better through more rest and more offline activities.
He’s not the only one who thinks likes this but he address it more then the others. Marine also said something similar to this where fans shouldn’t depend on Vtubers a lot as well
We aren't friends, but we can be friendly with one another. Streamers see their audience as a collective, as a group. We see streamers as content to enjoy. On paper, it's a fairly simple relationship, but there are many pitfalls both fans and streamers should watch out for. In a way, it is sort of a bit like being a teacher. A good teacher should be close to their students, but also set boundaries so that you are still seen as a figure of authority by the students.
"You are simply a single person out of millions, they care about their audience as a group, but as an individual, you are a stranger."
"You could stop watching their streams tomorrow and stop donating, and they wouldn't even notice you were gone at all."
From a post I once read on r/VirtualTH-camrs about forming parasocial relationships with VTubers.
Pls don’t mind me, I’m just fascinating about the word “parasocial” and its meaning. This word gives me a vibe like a cold air of philosophy breaching from the air-conditioned room.
I read that post too! It was really good.
While I mostly agree, I think the 2nd statement is more accurate for large channels.
I've been watching a lot of smaller groups these days, and they are very attentive when a person who used to regularly chat reappears after a long absence.
Yea, you'll have to be throwing red bricks at the streamer every 5 minutes for them to remember you. And even then they're not your friend or anything. Its just that they remember your name because it appears more often.
unless your name is "eating mike tysons ass", then the vtuber and her fans will realize you are gone and be sad
When he said "we aren't actual friends"
Something inside me shake then I realized I made a made up world inside me that was about to reject his logic
We are just their fans, nothing more nothing less, and will always will be just fans
We will support, cry, be happy, be sad with them, laugh, joke, prank, effort, suprise and etc with them, but we are just fans and an idol, and that's what all there is to it
Same, it hits fuccin hard
lol
It is okay. Just do not make it akin to a co-dependent relationship where you rely on that other person so much that 'you' is gone. Also, the definition of friend varies from people to people, but they can never be a genuine true 'best friend'.
Yeah dont be obsessed with your idols that it starts taking over your life, they dont own you and you dont own them.
Straight fact. Thats why I really couldn't care less about aloe stuff back then, I like them as a content, not as a person. Some might hate me for this, but its a fact. What happen to us have zero value to them, and vice versa.
My respect sky rocketed for this man. Not only does he let his heart out being vulnerable about how hes feeling but he also has the balls to tell a community like Hololives who are filled with people that become obsessed with their favourite vtube star that he's not their friend.
Hololive thrives on marketing towards lonely simps who need to escape reality in some form and in turn gets those said people to grow attached to these 2d characters.
I cant think of a vtuber who's willing to break it to a community like this because he probably lost fans because of this and is a wake up call for a lot of vtuber fans in general. The man has morals and can't sit with the fact that people think they're close to him when in reality theyre just fans. Astel is truly a real one.
If he lost "fans" because of this then they're not fans. Those are just delusional people who can't face the reality.
It's also not about thinking rationally, it's about having the balls to address this. I'm pretty sure most of them think like this, but given most of their non confrontational and introverted personality they choose not to talk about it.
@@scyred4568 um no most of the others don’t want to open up about this because they don’t want to lose fans and cause a stir and fans is a subjective terms doesn’t matter if they’re “real” fans or not but anyone who constantly comes to watch x streamer is a fan of them regardless of how “real” they are.
I can relate to him on hating the "distance" relationship. No matter how many people you talk to online (for my instance, my friends both irl and online that i can only talk to in chat), nothing beats having someone that you can actually meet in person. Especially for those people who are living alone, that "distance" relationship can really make you feel lonely. 😔
i disagree. friendship isn't something physical; it's emotional, and you can form a bond without being physically present around them.
@@nocturnal3427 I'm not disregarding the fact that you can build friendship online. I'm just saying that it still differs from being physically there.
There’s another detail to it. Astel himself said that he can’t really have an intimate conversation with his audience. Like if they things that hurt the other’s feelings they cant really work it out. You can definitely those kinda talks with others online like in a private chat but not in certain settings like a livestream or a comment section.
Astel is incredibly based here. This is what every streamer should be saying to ensure that the members of the audience do not develop parasocial relationship with them. There was another Western Twitch Streamer who said a similar thing just much more bluntly. I will always respect this kind of serious honest talk, it shows responsibility and care for the fanbase.
Ludwig?
I remember before he passed away, Totalbiscuit would have to say something like that every once in a blue moon. He tried to make it clear that they weren't friends: he was providing a service (entertainment), and we were his customers (only some of whom paid for the service being provided).
I always respected his level-headed approach to streaming, and the lengths he went to informing his viewers about things happening within the gaming industry and gaming journalism as a whole. Especially even if the face of sometimes stiff resistance from the drama-filled industry and people who leeched off of it.
@@diegolara6652 you mean Ludwig the holy blade? nah, he's a horse with a green sword. Apparently he loves the church
It's also not just about being friends with the streamer, but the streamer also can't be giving that kind of trust to random people they haven't met irl yet. Even if it's something like vrchat, if you haven't met that actual person face to face irl giving them that kind of trust is unwise.
I’ve had closer relationships with a lot people I’ve interacted with online than with a lot of people I’ve met irl but I’ve never been as close to someone online as some irl friends I’ve had.
@@MrMagnetron2 your statement is sort of contradicting
@@Nadia-nt8gb i think the message he was trying to convey was that while he has more relationships or friendships online, it still doesn't compare with the closeness he has witht the few irl friends he has.
At least that's what i think
@@renzjioshiiirooohipolito2954 ohh gotcha
huh? you dont get it. its not online vs irl. its about that he is an entertainer and we are viewers. theres a distance that needs to be kept. not because its online, but because thats the nature of this kind of relationship. theres many thousands of us, its impossible to have a relationship closer than this. it's nothing comparable to vrchat at all. i trust some of my vrchat friends more than anyone i've ever met irl. thats because they're my friends, and we've spent time building the trust between us. in a way vrchat is more real than real life, because people can present themselves how they see themselves, and can be themselves freely without worries. don't devalue those kinds of friendships. not to say irl friendships aren't great too, but i've never had one that could compare to the closeness and trust i have with some of my vrchat friends.
This is very important guys, gals, and that technicolor rainbow in between. Part of their job is pretty much to act like our friends, but its never actually possible. That is the very nature of a parasocial relationship. They are good, but they are *not* replacements for actual companionship for the viewer or the streamer. Its a social band-aid, not end goal. We as viewers must understand this.; if viewers stick to only forming online relationships as such, we will always have a hole in our hearts that will never be filled. Tough, but thems the breaks.
Social band-aid is a great way of putting it
@@heerotomoe Thanks, got the idea from a song actually. And oh man, I could go so much deeper into this. Our generations Young Millennials to Gen Z are facing a problem unlike pretty much anything in history with the compartmentalization of our social and economic lives which contrasts with the way a human has biologically and societally evolved. At least its not war or famine, but its still a problem. Almost makes me want to become a vtuber to directly talk about this stuff.
@@NovaGN as long as it's not a main content, I think it's okay.
some peeps wouldn't like always thought-provoking shit on their Vtubers lmao
This is really why I’m such a fan of Astel, even beyond his talent and ability to entertain. He’s so freaking genuine, and manages to be that while also conveying a sense of warmth and good will.
I think the streamer-listener relationship has an important part in today’s society, especially this past year. It almost acts as an interim between traditional relationships of all sorts - whether that be family, lover, or friend. You can liken it to a temporary haven that gives you strength for the next part of your journey.
But it’s important to know this new type of relationship is very different than the real give-and-take of a full on relationship. It’s not that the streamer-listener relationship is fake. I really don’t think it has to be; however, staying grounded and not falling into delusions is *absolutely* vital.
Thanks so much for picking such an interesting clip to translate.
To put simply friends or not lets care for each other...
-Astel kun
good on him to acknowledge the nature of parasocial relationships... i feel like some streamers and many, MANY fans can forget about this. it's especially heavy of a burden when people keep sending like "you saved my life, your videos are the only reason i'm still here" messages to streamers: these people DO NOT KNOW YOU and are not here for you in specific. It's always a wonderful thing when we can connect with someone's content and it can bring some light in our lives, but in the end it's no different from enjoying the music of your favorite artist or a book that you love. It is a relationship you develop with the content- not with the real person behind it, and that is normal and natural as long as you don't stake your entire wellbeing on that content. But it's always important to remember that this relationship does not flow both ways, and furthermore, that the person behind that content does not personally owe you anything.
To put it simply: Your waifu/husbando is ultimately there for your inspiration, not for your obsession.
This is the classic brutal honesty I've come to expect from Astel, but I'm glad he's saying it. It's an important message for people to hear and understand.
to me, it's not bad to send something like
"you brought me out of depression because of your videos"
but adding
"your the only reason why I'm still alive"
is just way too much and kills the heartfelt message. it's like saying
"keep streaming or I'll k*ll myself"
it just sounds really obsessive. the streamer doesn't know the fan and their problems, and they wont specifically keep streaming just so the one fan doesnt die.
always appreciating how honest astel is. hearing it might be painful for some people but it's an important thing to keep in mind and to avoid becoming over delusional and I think astel handled it really well
If one gets offended of his words, it means that they made theirselves believe that they had a co-independent relationship with him. It's a good thing that he talks about this time to time because people snap out of it, letting them know that in the end, they support astel just like everybody else is. I got offended after watching this long ago, but he made me realize that I built myself a world where it just evolved around vtubers and myself.
100% agree, he's spitting the fact. Streamers are entertainer, not your friend. If they stop streaming, you stop watching, you are not gonna be invited to their birthday party, gender reveal or even their funeral. They dont even know you are exist.
The parasocial is a bit dangerous, Marine said "if you dont happy if you dont hear my voice, its a sign of bad things. Dont put your happines on someone else, that kind of dependency is really dangerous".
I saw someone donated to streamer "you 'streamer X' saved my life from blablabla" saving from what? You are just escaping from reality for just 5 hours.
This community still growing and cant be stopped at some point, hopefully a lot of people understand this kind of relationship.
This also remembers me of clip that Twitch streamers hangs out with her biggest donators that she never seen them before, which resulting very awkward situation.
I completely agree, and I've unfortunately had an experience with what I'd guess you call a toxic fan. So I can kinda relate to him, just not on the same scale lol
I'm a real small TH-camr & Twitch streamer, and I have a small discord to talk and interact with my mates and people who watch, the basic stuff y'know? A few months ago I got a new guy who became a regular in my streams and joined the discord. He'd try and talk with me almost anytime I was online and such. I felt obligated to always respond back, since I don't have many reoccurring viewers in the first place, and I believe it's also part of a streamer's job to interact with people in chat.
However over time he got closer to what you'd call obsessive. I always had thoughts like "He might get out of hand eventually" but hoped it wouldn't happen. Eventually he changed twitch user to a joke name including my name. When I was watching one of my friends stream, he joined in chat and pretended to be my alt, and would very frequently ask to talk to me in the discord VC. I was kinda annoyed by the alt thing, but other than that I wasn't bothered much.
Soon enough he had commented and liked every one of my videos, and was watching every stream of mine he could. As time went on he got more and more combative, as he tried to find new topics to talk about we'd argue more and more. It's hard tp really explain, but he pushed everyone away really. A couple of my personal friends didn't want to talk in my discord anymore because he'd hop right into the middle of the conversation and insert himself. Like Astel says in this clip, I was hesitant to really do anything because he hadn't broken any of my rules, and I didn't want him to hate me. And I didn't want to come to hate part of my small fanbase.
The final straw came when he tried to come between me and one of my closest friends I've known for years saying "Why are you friends with this guy" and telling my friends to kill himself. I got onto him and had to break to him this hard truth. Even if I barely have a fanbase, I still don't know them personally. I got caught in between trying to make sure I'm not hated, and how close I'll let fans get to me. I don't use facecam and my name isn't readily available because I want some distance between things. So it made me uncomfortable when he'd repeatedly ask about my sexuality.
When I got onto him and told him the difference between my friends I personally knew, and people who find me randomly on YT/Twitch, and how he has absolutely no say on who my friends are, he got very upset. "But I liked every one of your videos!" "I watch you stream all the time!" he said. He tried to use it as leverage because of all he's done for me. I told him I never asked him to do any of that, it was his own free will. He tried to guilt trip me (I'm not sure if he meant to or not tho) and eventually asked if I still wanted him here. I told him that he broke a rule, so I gave him his first warning, and that it's not up to if I want him to be here or not. If he broke the rules again, he'd be kicked, but if he doesn't, he's welcomed to stay. I knew he wanted me to say I wanted him here, and validate him, but I took the neutral stance. Because I didn't give him the validation he wanted, he got mad again and eventually left.
Moral of the story, creators have to be careful about how close they let fans. Because if they don't set their own boundaries, someone will try to get as close as they can and they won't be self aware enough to see they're making the creator uncomfortable. I was kinda lucky that I dealt with something like this early on. It was a learning experience I guess lol. Unfortunately, some people won't care about the boundaries their favorite creator make. They'll write fanfics or smut when the creator is uncomfortable with it. Or they'll steal information and find out what they look like. I'm sure we all can think of horror stories of deranged fans.
What Astel said really is a hard truth I think, especially in this branch of TH-cam. Since they're idols, many of them release voice packs saying things like "I love you" and such, and thank every superchatter at the end of streams. This closes the gap between them and the viewers, and because of it certain stan groups or individual crazed fans will try and use that as an excuse in their head to believe they really are friends with them.
Oh God I really typed an essay huh? Well, maybe part of me just wanted to get it off my chest lol. Hopefully it was interesting or insightful if you read it all. Just my experience with something related to the clip.
There's some horror stories about what some obsessive and abusive fans have done to small creators that they've claimed ownership over.
Good for you for recognizing the problematic behavior early and addressing it, responsibly.
Izuru also had an excellent rant about the relationship between fans and vtuber and it was pretty funny.
Seems both Astel and Izuru know when to lay down the law and create boundaries.
This is called "Parasocial Relationship" and I'm glad that he is addressing it. Most fans got too hooked up and think they are the friends of the streamers while not understanding that the streamers have never even seen them before.
isnt that the whole anime maniac people thing?? some even make some character as their waifu either as a joke, virtually, and some even marry it for real in reality(i mean it's still virtual but they bring it to the physical places and to church n temple)
that's why.. dealing with degenerates and maniacs is a dangerous thing. But hololive playing around with this region. That's why they got a lot of harassment this and that there..
and also weird people.
Haato even call her fanbase degenelates and they love it. seems like the most concentrated degenerates is in haaton group.. the haato fanbase.
the duality of hololive.. some talents keep trying to talk about corruption stuff like sexuality, swear words, etc, bu some talents just want to keep the fans polite, normal, no horni, etc.
they want lewd n harsh but at the same time, they dont want to get troubles..
While it does admittedly hurt to hear “we aren’t friends” so bluntly, its still a logic that I recognize and adhere to. We exist as a Gestalt entity to them. While we can learn a surprising amount about them if they decide to share it, from their perspective we are an unknowable collective. But just because our relationship isn’t a particularly deep one doesn’t mean it can’t be a warm one. We laugh and cry and cheer together, and we support them through thick and thin. In return, a lot of content creators are incredibly fond of the collective of people that follow them, even if we will never truly know eachother. They push themselves almost to the breaking point because of that relationship. So yeah, just because our relationship with them is too distant to be properly considered “friends”, that doesn’t mean it is a cynical and cold relationship instead. Its when people forget that they are a face in a crowd or when the talents forget they are talking to a crowd that problems get born.
I was starting to think too cynically.
What he's saying is the most obvious thing in the world to someone on the outside. Some fans create their own illusions of a relationship as a defense mechanism to shield them from the harsh realities of their lives. They need help and real friends to turn to, not more super chats
The simple truth is that they give us entertainment, and in return we give them our support, and in some cases our money. We're buying a service, not forming a friendship, and it gets toxic when people don't acknowledge that fact.
I think it's fine to feel the same affection for a streamer you'd feel towards a friend. After all you spend hours a day watching them, laughing with them and experience fun highs and lows with them, but you always have to remember that to them, you're just a stranger.
Massive respect to Astel for being willing to talk about this topic and being honest about it. Personally, I don't find his words offensive at all because I can sense the sincerity in them to maintain a good relationship with his viewers.
Thanks for the translation! Yeah this topic is kinda hard but its good for everyone to know what the relationship between a streamer and the viewers is.
sometimes I see people superchat with messages that get really intense and personal and I just think about how weird it must feel to get sent stuff like that from total strangers
Seeing some comments getting angry makes me chuckle a little bit.
It's a harsh truth but it's the truth regardless.. I do wish these people will understand someday so they won't get stuck on the illusion of parasocial relationship.
Just to play with fans feelings and emotion of not being able to collab with them?
Not only in vtubing, relationship on the internet itself is basically like this most of the time.
You can care about a person, but ultimately they are across the world so you can't really help them or anything.
Imo, the distance itself is important- it's because they are beyond reach that we can aim for them, it is because looking from afar is the only thing we can do is why we look out for them.
And this is why, despite the distance, vtuber's happiness is the listener's happiness, and the vtuber's sadness is the listener's sadness too.
Never realized how lonely I really am. For years, I've made online friends and rarely any real friends.
thats not true.. distance doesn't mean you can't help your friends. i can still talk to my friends and support them when they need it, in vrchat i can even hug them. if they need something, i can get them most things. i can't run to their house with food and spend the day with them, but we can get on vrchat or just call together and play all kinds of games or just chill watching videos together. i can order them food if they mention they're hungry. we can laugh together, cry together, spend our days together and fall asleep together. you really cant compare that to the distance between fans and vtubers.
Different people has different experience, I guess.
Have you been in public servers?
I just realized how holostar is always genuine and direct they are, I can still remember this stream where Astel talk about vtuber-fans relationship, also izuru and Roberu they also talk about this issue no sugarcoat just straight fact
I'm glad he's aware of the dangers of parasocial relationship and warns his viewers about it in his own words.
I think it's a great slap of reality, but it still hits like a truck
I'll be honest, I tend to put a lot of value to the things or people that bring me happiness, but oftentimes I forget that I'm just a fan, they don't know me, I don't know them, I'll never be in any sort of relationship with them besides being one of thousands or millions of fans. It's great to have someone you look up to so much actually bring you back to reality to keep you from making those mistakes that can hurt you, and it's great advice in general, but it still makes my chest feel weird after hearing it.
Anyways, thanks for the translation, It's really nice to know Astel's stance on this subject, I'll gladly take his advice
Simple rule on the internet: Don't get personal. I love these guys for what they do, but I understand that I am just another fan to them. I don't see them as friends because I don't know who they really are. They're like superheroes. Admire and love them for what they do, but don't get too close to them or you will put them and yourself in danger.
I'm shocked at how many people struggle with this. I love this community and do think of the girls (and guys) as being a part of it their own way, but ultimately I don't know them and they don't know me. It's kind of liberating that way. A true no strings relationship.
I feel that this is a message we need. Its important for everyone to know and understand both parties relationship.
Hmm... as much as the word "we aren't friend" kinda hurt, I agree with it. There's a lot of content creators that I unsubscribe after they do something that I don't like. What I mean by "something I don't like" is something like putting up an unnecessary drama or giving a false information and don't bother to correct it. Like what Astel say, if I and those content creators are a true friend, I'll come back after maybe several days. But what I do (and still will do) is unsubscribe, then click on the "don't recommend this channel". They are an entertainer, while I'm their consumer. I won't waste my limited internet data and time for things that's not entertaining for me. Kinda cruel, but that's how things work.
Lol, we have never been friends of these vtubers. Never. At all.
We are just fans that gives them feedback so that they can entertain us more. That is the harsh truth. That is why I never attach myself to them but watch them peacefully from afar. So, I can cheer for them at the sidelines while also being easy to detach from them once its necessary.
It hits hard lol
It would hit specially hard for fubuki fans hahahaah
Tbh this is the exact thing I needed to hear at the right moment. I’ve been going through a phase where I think I needed to be famous and have a lot of fans in order to have fulfilling relationships. While not exactly the same thing Astel is talking about, there is a similar theme. Thank you for uploading this.
"Let's care for each other" I understand Astel's sudden periods of loneliness, the distance makes it hard for viewers to have the level of understanding about him that he wants. He is right, I'm glad he always has the courage to bring up topics like this.
He right and the way he explained it is very good too.
I think its good because it keeps the fans in check honestly
I’m so happy he said this. There really needs to be a distance when it comes to creators and their fans. Even if they say you’re like a friend or family. The truth is you’re NOT. You don’t know this person, they’re just a character. I feel especially strong about this considering all the accusations coming forward about youtubers grooming fans. (Not at all saying Astel is a groomer. This can go both ways.) Please stay safe, everyone!
He knew he'd lose viewers from saying what he felt needed to be said and he chose to say it anyway. Big respect.
Astel's right and it goes both ways. It's easy for a vtuber/streamer to believe we are their friends, and it's also easy for us to believe they are our friends, but it's not true. However, I think it's completely okay that we are important to each other. Vtubers are entertainers, and we are the audience. There is a positive feedback relationship where we encourage them and want them to succeed, and they use that to make the experience more enjoyable.
Hololive and vtubers in general are taking us for a ride, and one day it'll end, but it's a damn good ride.
Very well said. Unfortunately this is an issue that doesnt just affect vtubers but every form of media and content creation. And the times that people actually handle it correctly or address it in a non-hurtful manner are rare at best. I'm glad this exsists cause it can either fix the issue before it starts or give the oppurtunity for a creator to address it in their own community.
honestly i'm surprised so many people actually saw internet personalities as friends or someone they have a relationship with. i've always just seen people like vtubers as entertainers or people i think seem nice.
Yeah I feel this. Like I may really care about their content and like them but I never see them as friends. It’s kind of interesting how many ppl do see it like that tho
Thanks a lot for translating this almost year old stream. This really just made me like Astel more as a person, and somehow kinda "justify" my view/thoughts of him being a really genuine, deep-thought, well-spoken, and overall a very self-aware guy. As someone who's also self-aware, the way Astel's thought process goes, from what I've seen and heard, just shows how much he thinks about every sort of things carefully, in every possible perspective, rationally, objectively, and emotion-wise (especially, ESPECIALLY, with the other night's evening stream, and a certain son's sudden bankatsu(??)/late night stream, piece it together and you'll get an idea of the opinion I'm trying to relay here, don't wanna go too in depth about it 'cause i don't want to make assumptions as much as i see it to be a veeeeeerryy considerate move from the space seaweed, tl;dr: not putting words in his mouth). His beliefs and opinions as well (in this video), speaks the truth, as much as some people see it "harsh", etc., and him handling it this well, i think is one of his strongest suits. I don't really have any opinion about this whole streamer-viewer relationship thing aside from i definitely agree with it, since that's how i always see it, as well.
I also want to take note that Astel bringing this up and giving a sort of "reality check" might have been influenced by gachikois or hard-core borderline or sometimes stalker-ish fans (someone please explain this term better), or maybe it's just his way of looking out for himself and his fans altogether, but then again, I'm not putting words in his mouth, this is just a little opinion of mine.
👏👏👏👏
A reminder that we as listeners don't know them and they don't know us YET enjoy each other's company as a group
Yeah, it's harsh, but it's always better than not accepting the truth and keeping up an unhealthy mindset...
I'm glad Astel knows about this and addressed it, because I've seen cases of people not being able to accept the truth or don't want to say it, making everything more complicated
It's sad that it can't replace existing concept of friends, but I am just glad to have this different kind of ...relationship? beside the traditional friendship. Like another option. Just gotta remind myself that they are different, and that this one is bit more limited and harsh, not because we wanted.
I appreciate that he said he hates we can't get rid of the distance.
True
I find para-social stick kinda relaxing when you get the gist of it, it works well as different bonus option
The reason why holostars and astel gachikois are silent. He's setting clear boundaries and keeping it real from the start and I love it. I may be a simp for vtubers but i don't want to know them irl like this illusion is ok for me
He is not being harsh. He's just being honest.
This is how it is for any content creator. Unfortunately some people are dillusional. It's fine to support or like them, and even look up to them. But they are in no way friends with us on a personal level.
I have so much respect for this man fr
Astel be speaking some fire out there
I've been into this Holostars fandom recently and I kinda understand what he's saying. We are in an fan-idol relationship. We are not his friends but we act like we are one. It's merely for the purpose of entertainment which is something everyone should keep in mind. A lot of the fans forgot this and they ended up being so attached to their idols that when the news of them leaving, getting married or whatever sort, it actually break them because they build this idea that "these guys are my friends" or that "this guy/girl is my lover" etc which could really end up in a worse case scenario of dark intentions. That's why when I follow someone, I just look up to them but I never really attach any feelings. It's merely for the purpose of entertainment so I that I don't get hurt in the future
I like how that one person in his stream comment is trying to translate everything what he say in eng. I TRUTHFULLY RESPECT THAT PERSON.
credit for him talking about this topic because it is weird, tiring, overly complicated and existentially depressing all at the same time.
i know for some fans this topic can be a hard pill to swallow, but it’s the truth. you and your favorite streamer are not friends and most likely will never be. the relationship you have with them is purely of an entertainer and their fan. you may think you know them, but they do not know you. so no matter how you look at it you are still strangers.
so at the end of the day, we are fans nothing more nothing less.
honestly, i enjoy hearing astel talk because he shares his thoughts and always keeps it real.
edit: it now make why he call us his wives and husbands
A harem of listeners you can’t have a full relationship with is a fitting analogy, isn’t it?
@@heerotomoe Actually it is possible fof you to be friends with them but it goes a long way and it take dedication. You do your work related to holo company determined to be notice if lucky they will noticed. Just like Kanauru, Mamaloni, KeenBiscuit, EbiBeam and Farhan who have dedicate since day 1 are like friends to them. Its extremely difficult but not impossible. So Astel little to know he says crap
Respec for Aniki: UP
Worry that he might get hate for this: Also UP
I can assure you any hate this boy gets will definitely from Holostars/male idols haters as a whole, and that would be cleared quickly.
I mean it's like that meme about hating him because he told the truth (except Astel isn't jesus so)
Its indeed true (in almost all cases, albeit i think there could exist very rare exception where some streamer would think of listener's as close to-be friends, cus not all people are good with having social life\actual friends irl), its only a common sense after all (in this para-social interactions). We just 'The Fans", the group without face to Streamers\Vlivers\etc. We may influence one another in happy or sad moments but thats it, and its okay. Its a different option of interaction
elationship, that in its distance - it can be fascinating.
Also its totally a thing about whole 'trust' and 'ability' issue too - in the age we are living in. Thats the thing with whole internet.
But, personally i feel, the most important thing is that, actual friends or not, as this Astel says, Streamers\Vlivers create such, could i say, kinda unique environment and sometimes, at least try to care for\help each other in some way (and just have fun), regardless of the actual status or etc (as some streamers, is at least seems to be, kinda genuine ppl too). We may not be actual friends but we can still be friendly with one another as it last.
Tho of course, in reality, its just that cruel truth and listeners with streamers will be always strangers, and in the end it will be always bittersweet at best. Its important to not be over-delusional, to have common sense, and just have a good time while you can (support amazing ppl while you can), if you want to. So its good that Astel speaks about it in this environment(he takes my sub for sure, huh).
When it comes down to it, they're entertainers that are easy to interact with. I respect Astel for keeping it straight up 👍🏿
Good on him to speak about this. While this clip is from August 2020, I still hope more streamers and Vtubers talk more about parasocial relationships and discuss it in a way that Astel did: honest and firm but not harsh and condescending. At the same time, though, I feel like Astel can talk about this because he's a smaller Vtuber (at least compared to his colleagues at Hololive) and also a guy. I can only imagine the kind of backlash someone with a much higher subscriber count/audience and is a girl--like, say, Fubuki or Marine--would get if they were to address this. I feel like a lot of their toxic fans would lose their fucking minds and conduct a smear/doxxing campaign.
Parasocial relationships have been a big point of conversation for a lot of streamers over the past year, so it's been interesting seeing the topic come up in Hololive various ways too (both directly and indirectly).
this and his disdain for possessive "fans" are the reason why Astel is my favorite vtuber... plus his Apex karaoke stream is one of the best experience out there, too bad its mostly unarchive but I guess that's one of the reason people look forward to his streams... he is so unpredictable to a point that I don't remember him posting his schedule for a week
I don't remember him posting any schedule and I've been a holostars fan for more than a year now lol
i agree im just a fan i dont have to be your friend i just wanna listen
the loneliness of the idol... It's something all public people have to learn to live with. That's the price of fame. However I'm a little concerned that he says it's already bothering and scaring him (especially since there is still a long way ahead in his vtuber career) At least It's a good sign he's being frank and honest about this with his listeners. Gambatte Astel!
I respect him even more👌
This is very responsible of him. Even if an online personality is casual, one must always remember that that is merely to ensure that you have a better time watching. It does not mean the relationship has become casual.
well they're our entertainer and that's it
It is the sad truth
@@CheetoPuff111 it doesn't necessarily has to be a sad thing honestly
it just set a boundary and a reminder to the viewers that
1. they don't have any power or whatsoever to control them
2. to support them or not it is our choice
3. know our limit
@@hadihendra266 You have a point, it's just cool to think of them more as our pals than entertainers.
Yup
I never thought someone would actually point it out themselves, even from the host itself to boot. We may be fans to him, but we were never that close to them. A VTuber is an alternate animated persona created by a corporate entity. And a connection built between the VTuber and his fans is surface-level. After all, you only knew the person as the VTuber, not as the actual person behind the animated persona.
Ludwig? Toast? Is that you?
For real though, Astel spitting facts. This should just be common knowledge among both viewers who NEED to know it, and streamers who may have to verbalize it now and then.
Fubuki: *No waifu just friend*
Astel: *No friend just stranger*
He says its more like lovers. So like the reverse fubuki
I wonder if fubuki will ever say something like that
Astel - saying the obvious because for some isn't obvious.
Its doesnt matter if we are friends or not, i didnt care for the start but...
CAN WE APRECIATE WHAT REINA HAD DONE?!?! Holy shit, that fast translation
Reina rules
Big oof that she moved on from this community and went to chase after other stuff
damn this man literally explained the metaphysics about streaming
pewdiepie pretty much achieved this kind of listeners - content creator relationship already
even tho he says controversial things people still really enjoy pewdiepie, which is amazing.
no wonder hes famous
all things considered, astel is spiting facts
It is sad but totally true, you can't be friends with thousands of people that are not even the same every day and that have different personalities as individuals. You can care about your audience as a whole but you will remember only, if any, a few names of common viewers and they may dissapear and stop watching you anytime and you can't do anything about it. It is better if you do not get involved as an individual with your viewers at personal level and I think it is tough cause viewers usually demonstrate too much love that you cannot return to them.
So streamers and chat aren't actually real friends....
This is giving me a bit hope that Fubuki can be our waifu
Hmm true if you think it like that XD
Now that's what I call "optimism"
bruh. if Fubuki can't even be your friend, should she really be your wife?
Thats a really convenient and twisted way of thinking....
Big brain
fax be spittin in this household
Astel is being blunt so as to cut down on parasocial behaviour. Nice. I commented this on a clip of the Norio marriage announcement yesterday, but I feel like a few VTubers are a little irresponsible with the parasocial stuff because the boundaries aren't clearly laid out. Of course, the blame does not solely lie on the streamer because some fans will get overly attached to their fave streamer regardless of the situation.
“We aren’t actual friends, right?”
_I felt that..._
*It really hits hard because, you know it’s the truth...*
_But still I’m supporting to the end! Until he recognized us his friends..._
It's sad but he's speaking facts. Just like actors and fans, singers and fans, idols and fans. We know them but they don't actually know us 😭
Although we jokingly say the other way, they are just like idols in this regard.
@@TakamaruKun Actually, we don't know them too. Like he said, meeting irl is completely different from this fan-vtuber relationship.
It's kinda sad but also applies to us fans (fan-fan), not everyone would like each other if we met irl.
But it's also nice to think that we are all able to come together even tough we don't know each other.
We may not be friends, but we can be friendly. We can still care for one another in a different way and I don't think that's any less real. But it is different than a friend.
Very innocent and adorable way of thinking but please no, u should realise how unhealthy it is to have this kinda mindset dude. What these streamers are doing is just their job as an online entertainer and our only role there is that of an spectator that may like their "peformances" to a degree to become a fan of them and support them (with likes, donations, views etc.) so that they can continue on well making streams with their entertaining personality, that we so much enjoy. They may care and appreciate very much their fans and the support to an degree but never ever to where they would see us as "friends" in the future.
Something I love about this is that all of the people in his chat were saying un, if this were an en streamer the chat would be going batshit crazy
Why would they go crazy?
@@apricotmadness4850 I don't know how to explain it
I love how he keeps it real compared to other vtubers or strreamers
Why do we use aliases online? Because putting yourself in front of thousands of strangers is dangerous, it can also be fun, exciting, rewarding and helpful, but it's not a normal social interaction.
Some people might think the rules change once someone starts streaming for a living but they don't, they're a stranger to you and you're a stranger to them, think of it like going to a club and watching a comedian, they want to entertain and you want to be entertained, there's a happy bond there where both parties are enjoying each others company but it's not a friendship.
Spend more time with each other and the bond grows stronger, of course, but the original conditions haven't changed. Don't let this affect your enjoyment of the content, just don't think it's more than it is.
I think what Astel says should be like the standard for all fan + "celebrity" relationships. I know many people find comfort in thinking their idol cares for them and likes them but it‘s impossible for the idol to do so. That doesn‘t mean both parties can‘t care for each other but a distance should be there.
This has been a true fact since day 1
Astel is Astel. I love his honesty. Chat was great too agreeing with him every step of the way... until Astel said the relationship between streamers and viewers is like lovers then they went "????" hahaha I get what he meant though haha
Thank god for clippers. At least I can enjoy their content from a distance without ever developing that sort of relationship with streamers.
it was about damn time a vtuber adressed that problem
Like it or not Astel is spitting facts
Virgin Dream vs Chad Astel
I tought abou this recently. And i think the correct way to see it is like pekora always says, we should see them as an idol or celebrity.
Ofcourse they are closer but no more closer than replying our question (chat/sc)
I do think they love their fans but not individualy, buat as whole.
But that's just my opinion.
while we're here, don't forget, vtubers are not your therapist :U