I find the line about being a damsel in distress hilarious considering that in Frontiers she IS a damsel in distress. At that very moment, stuck halfway in cyberspace.
Amy is the closest thing to a "normal person" in the Sonic world when you think about it. Just a girl who Isn't superpowered but tries to do the right thing regardless. I really like those kinds of characters.
>Super strength, speed, reflexes, durability, can magically summon a destructive hammer and weaponizd cards >Has been a stalker with anger issues who claimed to be someones girlfriend against their will for ages >"CoMpLeTeLy NoRmAl." Like, bro. You're playing the wrong series. She was never meant to be nornal. You're projecting a completely different archetype for no reason.
I wouldn't say "normal" in terms of superpowers because she has to have crazy strength and speed to not only carry a hammer but to be able to keep up with Sonic at least for a while.
That last part about the fandom's defensiveness over the IDW writers is accurate and part of a more significant problem. For a long time, the fandom has had a lot of animosity towards Sega for many reasons. Be it because of their direction, the writing or gameplay, the casting of particular actors, or meddling in projects leading to problems, you name it. It's always seen as an attack towards them, leading to a subsection of the fandom harboring deep resentment towards the company as a whole. So, when you have people like the IDW staff, Tyson Hesse, and Tee Lopes, who started as fans and are now living the dream, you bet they will defend them. Because they started out as us, the fans don't see them as part of a faceless corporation. They have people they can relate to and project whatever insecurities or headcanons they have onto them. I remember witnessing this on a Reddit thread talking about Lanolin the Sheep. This character has been a polarizing subject since the comics debuted her as part of the main cast. Her negative attitude and tendency to jump to conclusions caused a large section of fans to find her unlikeable. Of course, many disagreed, but the number one defense they used was at Sega's expense, in which she doesn't abide by those pesky mandates because she's an OC. Therefore, she's written as more "human" and isn't supposed to be nice to the heroes and kiss their a**es like Sega would want them to. Never mind that these are meant to be flaws that the character is supposed to overcome. No, no, it's the writers sticking it to Sega because they're writing something different, therefore making it good. Now listen, regardless of what you think of that character, the takeaway from this is that it's very telling how fans hold IDW staff in ridiculously high regard. They've framed the playing field as this "us vs. them" diatribe over years of harbored resentment that's starting to get out of hand. I don't even need to explain how these writers aren't automatically better than Sega because they don't want to follow a mandate. They're not perfect, and they can make mistakes too. Ultimately, it's important to step back and recognize that idolizing one side while demonizing the other doesn't do anyone any good. Constructive criticism and balanced discussions are how we foster growth, not blind loyalty or antagonism. Whether it's Sega or the IDW staff, both are capable of creating something great and stumbling along the way. Fans would benefit more from embracing nuance instead of clinging to this divisive "us vs. them" mindset. After all, this franchise is supposed to bring us joy, not division.
100 percent agreed. Every time someone criticizes Ian or Evan people gaslight them and say theyre being unreasonable or "crazy haters" and will never listen to actual points people are making about the writing. I myself loathed the Misadventures arc with Lanolin/Silver/Mimic, it was a disaster and seemingly brought back the idiotic Archie era melodrama everyone was glad to be away from, but now suddenly people are all for it again to defend Stanley/Flynn. And hey, I'll be the first to say I actually do think theyre good writers, but they have _flaws_ in their writing and goals with the characters, and they either refuse to address them or the toxic positivity of their fans double down on it. I can recognize when they do good but will also point out when they do poorly. How can we make the content even better without negative feedback? You can't. It's also nothing personal or at least it _shouldn't_ be. I never made it personal when i complained about a specific story, but others did when fans started dunking on me and others for not liking everything.
@@ORLY911 I remember a lot of folks loosing it over Shadow getting knocked down a peg by the metal virus saga, but frankly it was nice to see him get his ego put in check. Plus I do find the way a lot of people justify Ian's writing is by saying, "At least its not Ken Penders".
@Cowboycomando54 I think peoples problem is Shadow having that ego to begin with. Shadow has an ego but its not born of pride but one of doing things his own way, he isn't Vegeta. People expected someone like Shadow to have more tact after all he's been through, a characterization demonstrated in 06 and Archie. Ken Penders had a lot of problems, but its also worth noting he did give us some good stories too and his art actually wasnt bad in some issues (a shame he regressed a lot since then). Penders was only one leg of the drama in Archie Sonic. He wasn't even responsible for the "slap" scene.
@ For me it is the issue of Shadow constantly calling him self the "ultimate lifeform" even though he will always loose to Sonic, and he knows that he can't beat Sonic. As for Penders, I did enjoy his exploration into darker themes and plots, but he crossed a line line with what he tried to do with Geoffrey and Sally (the skunk was an adult and she was a minor). I also had to roll my eyes at his anti gun propaganda through out the series.
I think there are some justified critiques of Ian and IDW, but at the same time a decent amount of times, you see people who complain about the writing doing it with bad faith. So I see why we may sometimes raise them to too high of a pedestal, but either way, things do seem to be looking up.
@@platanoluverhell nah. Amy been an inconsistent character since the 2000’s. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow don’t compare. And don’t bring up any adaptation of them outside the games or IDW comics cuz they don’t count
43:08 THANK YOU Sonic is NOT a superhero type of character, he’s just a guy who loves adventure and has a warm heart He doesn’t follow the authority of society or those around him and he doesn’t actively try to preach to ppl about they’re wrong doing and why they need to change, he just lives life his own way and does what he thinks is right He puts an end to Eggman’s plans because he has fun doing it and it restricts his freedom
Sonic is a brand, and by extension he's whatever Sega wants him to be, if Sega wants him to be a superhero character, he will be a superhero character, whether we like it or not we are owed to nothing and shouldn't act like it
@@cannonbyrd1755 Even Mario has a particular personality Nintendo wants him to stick to whether it be the standard non story centric games or the RPG games. Sonic is the same way and his Japanese voice actor has always portrayed sonic in a particular free spirited nature. This was emphasized in all Japanese sonic media up to Black Knight. Black Knight is still considered some of people's favorite writing for Sonic
Agreed, he is a roguish hero, not a boyscout. I assume you were also annoyed at his lectures at Surge and his weird sudden copification with Clutch in 75 wanting to "turn him in" and make him apologize, and then feel bad he was taken away by Eggman? Sonic he literally just tried to murder a whole city after being caught for fraud, kidnapping, coercion, theft, racketeering, and all the other lovely mob related crimes presumably on the thumb drive the Chaotix found. Give me a break.
@@cannonbyrd1755 yeah no. Sonic in the games is depicted for the most part how the first comment described him. Sonic even if his personality is altered or taken in a different direction will always keep certain core traits. His arrogance, love for adventure, and his free spirited nature. These are all traits that mostly remain consistent amongst Sonic in different adaptations too
I'm sick of the girlboss-ification of modern female characters. It's like companies are afraid their audience is afraid of seeing a woman act vulnerable or expressing romantic feelings for a guy who doesn't always reciprocate, like it would somehow portray her as weak when her schtick has always been that she's obsessed with Sonic. It's like the gaming industry is overcorrecting after Metroid Other M was slammed by critics
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game). The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game). The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
One youtuber who goes by the name pariah once said that sonic is not spiderman and amy is not nick fury in regards to ian flynn's writing. He nailed it on the spot
I have no stake in Amy but I'm so glad you mentioned Silver, as I am a little tired of him being a softboy when his original storyline in 06 was that he was basically the terminator. Yes he's a hedgehog with feelings and more expressive than Shadow, but he's still someone always carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders in a way Sonic and Shadow don't
His theme song doesn't exactly help your argument, but I see what you're saying. He came off as naive and curious since he didn't socially develop or experience things like a normal person would, but I never considered him "soft."
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT Silver's fanon/IDW interpretation goes back to the Eng localizations. Blaze said in 06's Eng script that Silver is insecure when he's alone and combined with Quinton Flynn's voice acting that pretty much made Fanon/IDW Silver a thing,
this video is actually so peak. if there was an essential sonic playlist than this should be one of the first videos to play. it incapsulates all my dislikes for the current writing, state of the fandom and more.
This is a franchise targeted to children, Sonic and Amy's dynamic is mostly played for laughs. It's also true that Sonic dislikes sadness, so if chasing him will make Amy happy then Sonic will (sometimes reluctantly) oblige.
Sonic was never targeted at children, but teens and the edgy. Look back at who he was advertised for in the 90s and the ads he appeared in. They have been trying to kiddify him and to a degree he could appeal to that, yet the edge was always there.
Sonic was always for teens. SEGA has always tried to portray the Sonic series as being for teens while (in their own words) Mario was for kids. Much of the style of Sonic is focused on that specific aspect. It's pretty apparent in the early 3D games like SA1 and SA2. It's also shown in the music typically being rock/rap that wasnt explicit and generally more positive in their message.
@blumiu2426 Sonic has been historically targeted to the same demographic group as Super Mario in Japan, which is children. The slight change in target demographics in the West was a consequence of "localization", and you could make the argument that Sega of America and Sega of Europe had a better idea seeing how the IP is a lot more successful there than in Japan. They tried doing a balancing act with Sonic Adventure, where the general presentation is targeted to teenagers while the writing and humor are targeted to children, then they leaned more on the teenager side with Sonic Adventure 2, but then they undid it with Heroes, then went back with Shadow and 2006, then went back... it's truly very inconsistent.
@@ChaosAngelZero most 3D Sonic games are E10+, which is moreso leaning onto the teen/preteen range. Here in Europe, some sonic games like 06, black knight, rush adventure, and shadow the hedgehog were given full blown pegi 12 rating. So I'd say Sonic definitely leans more towards preteens/early teen crowd, which are still children mind you...just not 3-6 year olds.
As much as I wanted Sega to not *exaggerate* her crush on Sonic to the point of it being a part of her personality (Hello, Sonic Free Riders) this is another extreme to how she was written. Amy’s overall character theme is about love and passion. She obviously loves Sonic, he is her hero and she has a crush on him and wants to surpass him in terms of fighting and wants to go on her own crazy adventures without repeating her mistakes from Sonic CD. Her crushing on Sonic wasn’t the problem, it was times where that aspect of her character was Flanderized like in Free Riders as well as awkward localization changes that just don’t work.
Sonic Heroes was fine. She was just joking and not being serious about and immediately in the fight she asked Sonic if he knew where Froggy and Cheese's brother was and after that she didn't bother Sonic only AFTER they found their friends and saw Sonic in the distance to go after him. It's playful. Sonic Free Riders... I... didn't fully play because the controls were the WORST!
There is a definitely a case of the modern trend of rejecting traditionally feminine characters. Ironically the push of feminism is the embrace of masculinity when characters are concerned. Amy being girly was never the problem, you don’t to need to remove her that to improve her, because it’s a core part of her character. Instead it would be better to add an additional element, build her character out instead of removing the foundation and starting again.
I'd rather her be the fixated girlfriend than what we have. It can at least be cute and enduring and not insufferable and never something we've seen from her.
@@DMAN99 She already had more to her though. Even when concerned about Sonic when not around him, she wanted to best him in some way to be noticed, yet simultaneously had that same level of concern for others even if not romantic. The characters have never been presented that deep and sufficient. The problem is trying to probe beyond that and create scenarios that aren't the vibe the series intended. I think spinoffs are fine for that, because then the characterization one way may end up taking over.
When people call Amy just female Sonic, I think that's the highest compliment you can give. Every other character is inspired by Sonic to go through a character arc and change themselves. Amy is the only one, other than Sonic himself, that acts as a catalyst to change others. But does it in her own way. She herself like Sonic is relatively static. I'd argue her only real change is Sonic awakening her inciting incident to be that catalyst counter part to him.
Woah, I never realized that she changes characters just like Sonic. Sonic Team had such a strong vision for these characters back then, man. One would think that every fan would appreciate that vision as an adult, but no. They still hold on to that childish, unempathetic hatred of Amy Rose.
Well she was designed as his female counterpart. From her Classic design being his if he was a girl and it continues to her modern design, just being a little more subtle about it. But yeah. She does change others and Sonic began doing it too, especially in more recent years. Though her character is inconsistent.
Man, I hope they don't mess up Amy in Sonic movie 4. They haven't let me down yet, but that's the character I'm most concerned about them adapting. What with how Hollywood absolutely sucks at writing female characters in this weird modern era.
@@johngonzalez2495 movie Amy rose saves Sonic from metal sonic and movie sonic makes heart eyes at her, they definitely are going with the bad ass Amy rose version
This video should be obligatory viewing for any Sonic fan. I'd like to post this on the r/SonicTheHedgehog subreddit, butthe mods have an aversion to any criticism towards IDW and Ian Flynn, and I would get banned, just like I was banned from the Hedgehog Mod Manager Discord server for criticizing Ian Flynn once.
@@CanaldoZenny for criticizing him or going of in a crazy rant where you want Flynn dead ? I’m on a very big sonic server and we had to ban Flynn haters from the channel not for critiquing but for saying Flynn fans aren’t sonic fans and calling the man a fat fuck whole pretending it’s just to criticize him
I swear it feels like these days people who are Sonic fans are so dismissive of criticism just because the writings "Better then the Meta Era". It's also just really ironic that so many people are so dismissive these days with replies like "Who Cares", when just a few games ago they were also the ones whining about the writing being so bad. The Tribalism and passes for Ian just because "He's one of the fans" is crazy.
It's stereotypical sonic fan behavior. Your so use do getting crap for so long that when you finally get something that's decent to good its like it's the second coming of Christ. Then if someone comes along with any form of criticism like "hey this game was pretty good, but I think "X" could use a little work and "y" could be better" and they'll come and eat you alove because you should shut up and be grateful. How do you expect the series to get better when your just content with "okay" and discredit criticism that will make it great. The sonic fans who do this thinks they're real sonic fans fighting for the franchise they love, but it's actually the opposite your keeping down the franchise you love and those who are giving constructive criticism care for the franchise more than you because they want it to be better and believe it can be better
The fear of corporate relapse can drive a fandom to madness, ESPECIALLY if it’s the Sonic fandom. “I don’t think Ian Flynn’s a good writer.” “What, so you want to go back to the wacky and apathetic adventures of Baldy McNosehair? Because that’s what Sega’s gonna do if you don’t keep your mouth shut!”
It's like it's a personal attack somehow when they don't fucking know him and his basis isn't even the games, it's archie?? Fucking maddening. I admit Ian's rise is inspiring but he doesn't fit the franchise
Criticism is fine but we also gotta address the people who disregard any improvements or attempts made by recent games whether it’s writing or the story and just complain endlessly
In my personal opinion you and Pariah understand the roots of Sonic the best. Never understood why people took Amy being a "stalker" and "toxic" so seriously.
It's a trope that doesn't click with people as well in english speaking territories. It also doesn't help that not every Amy interpretation is created equal. I think stuff like battle Amy is hilarious for how absurd it got, but for some it can feel like torture. This ends up with people who genuinely believe Amy is nothing but a nuisance with zero redeeming qualities. This isn't true obviously since Amy has more depth than people give her credit for. The issue I have with newer Amy is that it's extremely obvious they want to pivot the character into a new direction. However it was done in a messy way. One of the biggest issues I have with frontiers is that it feels too busy course correcting instead of making actually interesting interpretations of the characters. There's so many avenues you can go with Amy and instead we end up with a milquetoast version.
@@OverZeelous Pariah is EXTREMELY biased towards Shiro Maekawa and behaves as if he writes the only one true, authentic Sonic - despite Maekawa himself previously stating he rewrote Sonic's personality from the genesis games to suit his own vision. Which in a vacuum is fine, I believe Sonic works best as a Godzilla-like character that benefits from all sorts of different takes, but it's frustrating when people LIKE Pariah use his vision to bash other takes on the character. He misrepresented and slandered US interpretations/localizations like the Archie runs, SatAM and AoStH as somehow being "disrespectful corporate cash grabs" despite many aspects of these localizations being canonized and paid tribute to even before Ian Flynn's hiring - this was so bad that this actually pissed off Ken Penders and for once it made Ken actually the most reasonable person in the room. he also tries to pretend Sonic is this exclusively Japanese ethereal concept, despite it almost always being a joint venture between both sides of Sega and CLEARLY being inspired by western culture - to the point that Sonic's personality was originally influenced by Bill Clinton for god's sake. Also can't forget to mention his incredibly incendiary and hostile "you shouldn't care about Sonic canon and you're an idiot if you do" video that was deleted after everyone rightfully called it out for how bad it was. tl;dr while Pariah had some good takes and videos at times, his stuff really started to feel overly cynical and at times even bad faith the further he went on up until his recent retirement from Sonic.
I think it's an issue with Western Creators having kind of a bias against static characters. There are a lot of characters who are better off remaining as "Pillars of their Ideals" that are often pushed to change on the faulty idea of "they've been the same for too long, it's time to change the status quo!" Take Superman, for example.
This is part of it, but it wraps back around to Dimitri's point about writers not understanding the character to begin with, so natural character progression is impossible because you're operating from a false premise. In writing, there are always multiple paths to take depending on the story or circumstance, but there's also doing things because you feel you can get away with it, characterization be damned. See: the cuntification of Velma Dinkley in various projects since 2012. A lot of Dimitri's feelings echo mine in regards to that topic (and it's not necessarily tied to the idea of making her a lesbian, tho there's definitely a huge overlap in that Venn diagram). Being more cerebral and nerdy doesn't automatically make one straight or gay, and the idea that it means the latter is *personally* offensive in addition to evidence of (what I can charitably call) lack of life experience or personal interaction. It's not just a Western thing, but it's absolutely a facet in regards to the Sonic franchise (and always has been).
@@USSMarinerthe push to make Velma gay is so weird, man. Because everything people that push it list as evidence boils down to stereotypical behaviour and well, head canon. It’s even funnier because in her long history she’s always been super into dudes.
Exactly this. Mascot character of all should not be tampered with and really aren't meant to be taken seriously to such a great degree. They are what they are and stories can be told within those parameters. Look at how many manga do it. A spinoff is fine to explore, but just as that. Sonic Adventures was deep enough, but trying to make them too "real" has always seemed bizarre to me. The Western fandom has too many issues and furries are among them and why scrutiny is required.
pretty much, course, the people doing these don't understand the character at all outside a Surface Level, especially special individuals that just wanna destroy things or have inherit Agendas to 'em all out of Personal Gain or Personal Politics
I love how the core sonic friend group's (tails, knuckles, amy) character isn't defined by their relationship to sonic, but rather informed by it. Tails much like amy is inspired by the guy, he looks up to him and admires him so heavily he sometimes loses track of his own capabilities. but you know who doesn't? sonic. sonic is well aware that tails is incredibly capable and dependable, and is willing to put his faith in him at the drop of a hat " slot this fake emerald in to stop the cannon? you got it!" knuckles is rigid, he's bound by his duty to the master emerald, and because of this he contrasts and clashes with sonic's free spirit from time to time, but they both obviously have respect for each other even if they don't always see eye to eye and are willing to take jabs. sonic's core friends like sonic for a lot of the reasons fans come to like him, and as such that makes them relatable, just like how sonic likes them for equally relatable reasons in turn. it makes them reasonably come off as actual friends... or at least it did, and I miss it.
I kinda want to apply this to Dragon Ball with Goku's characterization as I feel like a good portion of the American fan base doesn't really understand Goku's personality or why he acts the way he does. I do somewhat blame it on the English dub
@@crestofhonor2349 somewhat? Is completely the dub fall, people act like people growing up with a complete dif character and react surprise when the character change, in there eye, create a lot conflict.
@@crestofhonor2349 YES! Very much the same issue. And for largely the same reasons too. The "fish out of water" that constantly seeks adventure turned dumb, tough guy. Though i also blame the popularity of "DBZ Abridged" as well. That did quite a lot of "reputation damage"
''The Sonic fandom cares a hell of a lot more about the fandom part than the actual content'' This is exactly what has made me tune out from the online discourse, it has been stuck in stagnating limbo for nearly two decades and the fanbase is only keeping alive a caricature of it built on headcanons, fanfics, fandubs (Snapcube did irreparable damage to this franchise) and other outside sources. Sonic now feels like a meme entity rather than a true character, where people will spend more time uttering references to that one funny video they saw to show they're hip than ever enjoying the actual content the series provide. How many times have I heard people talk about Shadow Gens (an actual good game for once, I'll give Sega that) compared to the number of people talking about Shadow's love for latinas? Or that one time I was having an actual discussion about Shadow 05 only to have someone interrupt it with a ''Hey Shadow it's me the devil'' and I get made the bad guy for calling out how unnecessary that is (''we're just having fun'' they'll say every time)? A joke is the only way I can describe the fandom, in all senses of the term. Nothing is serious yet it is the most serious thing in their lives, for any form of pushback is a threat to their existence. You nailed it perfectly, this series is just a brand now. Nothing more. Also wow, I haven't checked IDW in years but I had no idea the western lack of professionalism had settled there too. Can't say that helps the fans when the official people are also unhinged and validates their worldview.
@@MegaGlassguy At least I’m not alone in being tired of all of the dumb Snapcube references. It’s been so overdone and overused, it’s just annoying now and they’re not funny anymore. I’m not someone who’s big on Snapcube’s style of humor and I just find it to be quirky, trendy, Gen Z cringe humor and whatnot now. You can’t go a second without this fanbase quoting Snapcube or some other dumb trendy, quirky quote.
Something similar happens with JoJo's Bizzare Adventure. You have the surface level "IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE?!?!?!?!" type of fans, and the people who go more in depth and have some semblance of mental stability. Very common occurrence in many fandoms.
I always get annoyed at Snapcube references Also one time Snapcube tried to cause political controversy just because Tom Wachowski is a policeman in the Sonic movie which she tried framing it as “supporting police brutality” when Tom being part of the police is just a part of his character
@@TheKing-uu7jn Funny you mention that, cuz I sometime see a lot of Sonic fans on Twitter just being really mad or skeptical at the fact that Tom’s a cops who Sonic likes (or simply not portrayed in a bad light, in the movies For some reasons Even tho, I feel like apart from the first movie, it’s not even like a defining part of his character (could be wrong, being a long time since I saw Sonic Movie 1 and 2)
It literally confuses me how not even a few years ago, everyone was mocking and memeing on Pontaff’s writing and no one batted an eye, but when someone makes even the SLIGHTEST joke at the expense of Ian’s writing, it’s all-out war, and anyone who does make fun of his writing has to make it clear they don’t hate him as a person, it makes no damn sense
It's like it is said in the video. The [BRAND] is more important and anyone remotely around it. It reminds me when a semi-popular sonic fan named "PSY-GUY" was ousted as a scumbag and many people just defended him just because he was popular.
I have noticed this pattern recently of twitter people only being able to tolerate relatioships if it's the most safe, boring thing ever, no interesting dynamics no unorthodox interactions, just two people being extremely blunt about how in love they are to each other in the most bland couply couple way possible, to the point that they don't even feel like themselves when they are together just the example of what a happy couple should look like, except the gays of course they are allowed to be messy and chaotic because they're just so quirky you guys.
Tends to happen when men are labelled as abusive or wimps whenever they do anything in a relationship, and women drag each other through the mud whenever they focus on their relationship.
Sounds like autistic people are mad that irl relationships require learning and understanding people and not everything will be spelled out to you. And if they are it has to be some important statement on how a healthy relationship is suppose to be or how love is love when in reality it really does come off as people who don’t understand human interactions without cartoon animals doing dbz fights and crying about feeling inadequate
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. You get these guys who either can’t read to save their life unless the character looks directly at the camera and states in plain English what they want or you get the ones who treat vague dialogue as full confirmation of their own headcanons like “SHE SAID SHE CARES ABOUT HER, THAT MEANS THEYRE LESBIANS” platonic relationships don’t exist to people like that.
A lot of terminally online people who never had a relationship and have been gaslit by the 2010's way of writing in movies and TV shows, and the reaction to the Me Too movement that made people think any form of romantic relationship is toxic and wrong and everyone should be self-sufficient. Mix with lack of media literacy and you get these emotionally stunted folks who are averse of any kind of romance - unless it for some minority character they can fetishize. I truly fear how Amy will be written in the Sonic 4 movie, because I think Knuckles and Shadow were given proper respect, but Amy will not escape the girl boss trope Hollywood has been trying to push for a while.
@@CanaldoZenny I've been tempted to write a fanfic since seeing the movie because of this fear. I know Amy has a power now according to the ending of the movie, which will make her a bit different, but I wanna keep her crush on Sonic, her liking shopping and playing games, her being silly and fun, and her being compassionate. I also want to have scenes where she needs help.
It’s crazy to me that people ever got the idea of Amy being a damsel in distress when she’s running around with a giant hammer like it’s nothing. How is a character like that ever just someone always needing to be saved because they’re weak?
SA1 she was at the start, but even though she fights back with her Hammer and in the end takes down E-100 Zero by herself. Then SA2 she wasn't playable, but she was caught by Eggman at gun point. However before that Amy got onto Prison Island by herself, got the card key and free Sonic, even mentioned to help Shadow remember Maria's real promise and helped save the world in her own way. Sadly, a lot of people seem to forget this and focus solely on her crush and her not "doing much" as SEGA and Sonic Team listened to the outcry of "Sonic has too many friends" so Sonic is only playable. Honestly, I think Sonic Advance has the best Amy gameplay in the series and that's due to her technical moveset where if you use her hammer you can finish the stage faster than Sonic.
It’s because she has spent a non-zero amount of time being kidnapped or otherwise incapacitated throughout the series, because Lord forbid a girl needs help sometimes.
she was only a damsel in distress in one game, that being sonic cd. even then, sonic cd's interpretation of amy isnt the well known one, its the heroes interpretation.
Because she had to be rescued, or at least needed help, in CD, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Riders and Zero Gravity. Nevermind the fact that Amy had her growth in the Adventure games, accomplishing many things, and was playable in other games like Heroes and the Advance series where she shines. Nope, she was always either an annoying Sonic crusher or a damsel. I didn't like Amy in the 2000s, so I'm partially guilty on this, but in my opinion what needed change was writing her crush a bit better, not downright killing it.
The worst part about all this is that even if Sonic Team goes on to create Sonic games with brilliant gameplay and fun level design, we'll STILL have to worry about the writers ruining all the characters and adding their politics in the stories.
@ I do too but it’s dangerous when we’re implying certain writers have political Agendas because that is the same talk from idiots who get triggered when gay and black characters exist
@exchangediary968 well... he has a point. This is something you can confirm by yourself looking at the surface of ANY Sonic writer/artist's social media accounts, you can see their political alignment. Lgbt stuff, allies and safespaces (I SAW a post of Gigi saying her twitter account was a safespace for her "lgbt fans")... left leaning things... And I mean, it's okay to have your own opinions and stuff, but PLEASE, those guys aren't fans anymore... they're WORKERS, they can't just shoehorn their political views onto an established FRANCHISE! No wonder Archie Sonic is no more... too many weird things happening, no canon Sonic characterization...
I don't necessarily see how the addition of certain things like Tangle and Whisper becoming a couple can be interpreted as political and needing to be avoided. It's no different than if Knuckles and Rouge finally became an item (but society sucks so certain people would make a big deal out of it).
It's definitely some food for thought. It really seems that modern writers have a very shallow idea on what makes a character powerful, where Amy being able to completely shift the tides of several conflicts through her high emotional intelligence and got both sides to feel empathy for each other, and the courage to tag along and adventure alongside Sonic and friends even if she doesn't have any comparable power. But nah that's girly crap, she needs a literal magic superpower that lets her be physically as strong as everyone else because, of course, what does your talk-no-jutsu mean if you can't also punch a hole in their chest if it doesn't work? Not everyone needs to be a combatant in order to be "strong" character.
I will say something that will get me crucified by hoth Star Wars and Sonic Twitter, but I don't care. Ian is the Filoni of Sonic. A dude everyone initially believed to be the savior of the franchise, that can come up with new ideas and move it forward, but soon everyone will realize he is hack that just wants to write official fanfics about his OCs
I... You're so dumb holy shit. He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written and he's not even the only writer. Get over yourself
@galten7361 the worst part is that I can kinda see a version of the inhibitor chips working, where instead of it activating with every clone and we assuming they were all blindly loyal to their jedi generals, the inhibitor chip activated had the clone refused to follow Order 66. It would honestly add the tragedy to the clones while also making them more nuanced and realistic, because the clones who wouldn't follow the orders would become brainwashed, meaning they never truly had a choice. But fuck nuance, all the clones where good guys who loved their jedis
The push towards mass appeal by turning a beloved character into a brand, writers who don't value or respect the source material, toxic positivity in the fandom, dismissing valid criticism by labeling it as hatred or bullying... That's not even a Sonic problem; it seems to be everywhere. It's frustrating.
Man I'm reminded of some of the Team Fortress 2 arguments even before a TH-camr brought it up to the public (basically the game was filled with idle/trading bots even before the sniping bots were invading). It scares me because I view it as someone who views the brand as their identity. It's not just a fun hobby anymore, it's their personality. I feel like this is why I've been cutting ties from Fandoms bit by bit.
Alright look, I know you are trying your best to avoid saying it without offending half the fanbase, but we all know the glaring problem and pattern you are pointing out. This delusional defense of Ian's writing isn't out of nowhere.... we can't avoid the elephant in the room any longer. Let's spill the beans here. It's mostly just *American Sonic fans* ... and mostly them, putting their own bizarre unwittingly spin in a franchise that is inherently japanese. Lets face the reality. Absolutely ZERO Asain fans have any problems with Amy and feminine characters. Like no complaints at all. It's the Americans. It always have been the Americans stirring up stuff and infesting their polical world views into things(not you guys you're based bou know what I mean) Ian is an American writer, thus he pushes everything you see that just... don't fit in a franchise inherently japanese. You got people defending him to death because he's a good writer, which he is, but his appeal is only to an American lense to cause "subversion" to tropes (yeah annoying word i know) ....and as you see... it just doesn't work. And Sega is facing this paradox now. On one hand, they owe it to the Americans for saving their franchise since it wasn't really popular in Japan during it's conception, but on the other, that same issue doesn't exist anymore as now Japan starts to like Sonic again and Japan is where Sonic is conceived. Man.... what a dilemma this is. This franchise is going through and existential crisis. An American identity, vs a japanese one.
As an american sonic fan, this rings very true, especially now with the Gens rewrite, we tend to over analyze these characters when the “answers” we were looking for were standing right in our faces, a static character is not a bad one, it’s meant to symbolize something we can look up to, a shoulder for other characters like Elise or Chip to lean on when times are tough. They’re an ideal we should try to live up to in order to better ourselves, not stay in terminally online discourse about a blue hedgehog saying the wrong thing or sounding the wrong way. I’d like to say we had it better back then…but I might end up repeating myself another ten years from now.
Any actual citations or is this just another way of fetishing asian people? The fact that you even admitted that america saved sonic shows how sonic being ""fundumentally japanese"" is asinine.
As an American fan, They're easily the worst when it comes to Japanese properties. Always want to change it to fit their "westerm" sensibilities, which is nothing but marxist brain rot. Had to distance myself from multiple fandoms because of these tourists.
@@Ianadaya I argue we do have Western characters who show how we're supposed to live or how the world is supposed to work they're just ones like Rick Sanchez.
Kinda funny in removing all of her "negative" traits to make Amy better you just end up making her Girl Sonic. Which was Blaze…Ian has literally one female character he makes and it’s just Blaze. Tangle is Gray Blaze, Surge is Green Blaze, Amy is now Pink Blaze.
And he was on record wanting to fuse the Sol dimension to Sonic's world so that he could use Blaze whenever he wants. The guy has an obsession with her and it's glaringly obvious.
Whisper is brown blaze. She was unique at first then her Tangle arc came. Also Blaze has a duty as a princess and guardian of the sol emeralds. Just make a way for her and Silver to travel between worlds easier. Speaking of Surge, she's not really Blaze-like. She had potential to be unique and cool but became pathetic. He didn't know how to end her arc.
@@MegaGlassguy it’s incredibly obvious he wants Blaze as a Sally 2.0 or quite literally girl Sonic as a main character. Chalk it up with IDW Sliver being made a OwO soft boi and the constant crying every issue, Ian is obsessed with recreating the worst of Archie.
@@captkate-yz8kd surge is a Blaze. Ian mischaracterizes everyone. So of course Blaze is included, in Ian’s mind she’s girl Sonic, she can fight, she’s seen as non problematic unlike rouge or Pre IDW Amy. So of course Surge is written to be girl Sonic as well, boiled down to the most check listed attributes because that’s all Ian sees in Blaze, and every other not Blaze, just girl Sonic.
@Graymanlegend Tbf Surge is an evil clone. She has a unique goal too. But I can see what you're saying. He's reducing too many characters to one stereotype, which makes it hard to enjoy Surge. I just see her as too much of a loser to make a cool villain arc, and I don't like her clothing design. I just hope he doesn't redeem her. Also, Amy and Blaze could always fight (except Amy in CD). They were just unique. Rouge could too. Speaking of him reducing Sonamy, Knuckles and Rouge had one moment in IDW while two new characters get their ship pushed to no end. Even though Knuckles and Rouge had actual good development in the games and are a beloved ship.
Something about women not being trophies to be won (because clearly the only reason a man would save them is to get laid and not because it's the right thing to do) and being strong and independent or something.
It's a trope lends itself to flattening a female character's agency, by functionally turning into something akin to a mcguffin. It's not inherently the case, but it's historically and overwhelmingly the case, and it's not random but a natural expression of gendered expectations and assymetric focus.
Even as a simple casual Sonic enjoyer I have noticed a lot how there is a push by western writers in making sure Amy becomes a girl boss, even slowly getting rid of her more loving and caring nature. What is funny is that you don't even need to delete her love for Sonic to show what she can do. In other media it has been seen.
It’s not even out of some kind of ideological righting of wrongs this sort of thing with Amy’s character has been complained about for years now so I can COMPLETELY understand why some want to defend this iteration of the character under the notion of “We don’t want to go back to Sonic Heroes writing of her do we?”
@@dariusbrown7870 Sonic fans are too attached to the 4Kids era that they don't even remember that Amy spent each of those games screaming Sonic's name or flipping out when other characters weren't fans.
Glad someone else is tackiling this topic. A video posted a month ago by BigDripMike titled "The DAMAGED Characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog" similary talked about issues with Ian's writing. Both yours and his video really brought to life stuff I've been thinking and picked up on for a min and glad to see that theres a bunch of people who see the problem with Ian Flynns writing.
Actually sitting down and reading these comics for yourself, instead of just listening to Adrenaline Dubs or the Game Apologist makes you aware of the glaring issues of these comics. Those videos over hype how good these comics really are. I tried to get into IDW Sonic multiple times, but I always gave up after 3 issues due to how boring they are. Also, IDW's Sonic is easily my most hated version of the character, far more than Prime Sonic and Underground Sonic. Stuff like this makes me appreciate Movie Sonic more, despite also being different from Game Sonic. At least Movie Sonic has a clear character arc in all the movies, and he knows when it is time to drop the jokes and get serious. Also, he learns from his mistakes. IDW Sonic is badly written I honestly think it is character assassination, and Ian Flynn wanted Sonic to be the villain of the story.
@@CanaldoZenny Honestly you're far more vigilant than me, I constantly watch things and somehow miss alot of flaws and issues with it, even with me looking at the physical copies of the comics I still didn't notice the issues at first glance (probably because I'm not too familiar with how the characters are actually supposed to be characterised with the many takes on it.) But this video was a real eye-opener to me and helped me realise why I prefer the older amy than the new one.
it always has been a open secret the problem always has been that not only ian is more protected by fans but that when this things are called out people dissmis it as "le stupid rigthwing"
@@mechakirby9576 It's really exhausting how obsessed people are with politics, just let people voice their concerns about the writing without calling them "bigotted', or "insensitive". I honestly don't know if they're actually stupid or doing it on purpose so they can defend their echo chamber.
@@CanaldoZenny Actually the Heroes arc and the Metal Virus arc are pretty fun. Just skip the issue where Tangle sacrifices herself just so they could have Whisper throw a tantrum. After that the series goes downhill fast. I had to stop watching after Surge's second anticlimactic arc. Such a shame they didn't use that potential well.
As much as I highly dislike Amy Rose as a character and the Sonic-Amy dynamic (both pre and post meta-era btw), I have to agree with everything said throughout this video. I don't like the fact that Mr. Flynn is trying to turn SegaSonic's universe into Archie Sonic. As someone who's been a fan of this franchise since I was a toddler, I don't like the fact that a lot of the female character's femininity is being erased like this. The comment Ian made about Cream being "just a kid" rubs me the wrong way cause she's more than just a little girl. She's a normal girl who lives in a world where fighting is inevitable and grows to appreciate that while still being her kind self. This is especially shown in Sonic Battle and that one Cream-focused arc from Sonic X that correlated with the game. Again, I hate Amy Rose, but the good things she did throughout the series were because of the foundation of her being a relatively normal girl who just wants to do the right thing. She was willing to help a baby bird find its family while everyone else was too busy focusing on the big bad. She then inspired E-102 gamma through her feminine/child-like kindness and compassion to go out and do good in the world by saving his fellow robots (and becoming one of the best characters in the series imo). We also can't forget about the fact that she changed the perspectives of Shadow & Silver. With Shadow, she convinced him that people are worth protecting despite the sins of humanity and did a similar stunt with Silver when saving Sonic from getting beaten up by him. Amy's best traits were never "girl-boss" qualities that involved her being physically strong, it was her desire to just be a good friend. She was always someone who helped with the crisis by just being herself, and that is inspiring. I don't like Amy Rose, but I appreciate and even love some of the good things she did for stories she was featured in pre-2010s. Sure, I have the unpopular (or somewhat popular? idk) opinion that her "love" more like obsession for Sonic annoys the hell out of me, but she at least felt like a character with great traits like the rest of the Sonic cast. After Sonic Lost World, she because boring, uninspiring, and just...."strong girl" who happens to be mature now with no character development. The best characters I can compare to her have to be Captain Marvel and Rey from Star Wars. Those two are so perfect that they barely have any flaws or substance that makes them interesting. They're just there to be the stereotypical strong girl instead of actual characters. Amy has a dedicated fanbase and I feel sorry for them cause I understand the feeling of seeing your favorite character become a blank shell of their former selves. Sonic is my favorite character and I'm tired of seeing huge chunks of Movie Sonic, Archie Sonic, and Spiderman's characters being forced into him....especially in Frontiers and IDW...ew. Shadow is better than the edgefest he was during the Meta era, but I still feel salty that he's not as close with everyone as he should be, especially after the character arc he went through in Sonic 06. Idk how to end this...uh just learn how these characters should act please TvT
@bunnibunsanrio Shadow's arc in the Adventure Era wasn't about him seeing that mankind is great actually and needs to be protected. It was him finding something to live for beyond being a tool and understanding himself. Circa Forces Shadow doesn't care for mankind at all. Shadow's overall characterization in the game canon post-06 hasn't changed accounting for localization differences. They just stopped including him in anything where he's actually a protagonist after 06 until New Generations and otherwise turned down his spotlight thanks to the backlash against the Adventure Era that was cemented circa the 2010s.
I'm all for preventing Amy from being flanderized into a character who loves Sonic and nothing else. I don't recall that ever being an issue in the past though. Many of my favorite Amy scenes don't involve Sonic at all, especially ones from Sonic X.
Thank you so much for making this video. For years I have dealt with so much crap from blind fanboys of Ian Flynn, and any little criticism I've given of how he views or chooses to handle the characters ALWAYS leads to angry hate mobs who don't even know what they're defending or why. This isn't just a smoking gun for how he's gotten Amy and others so wrong, but also how straight-up malicious and egotistical he is with his own headcanons. Thanks to this I can confidently say he is terrible for the series and does NOT care for the franchise as it is. No writer should ever have the ego to morph an established IP into their wildly differing preferences that exist only to please themselves.
the censorship and defeminization of characters isn't unique, but it is unique that the japanese scripts refuse to buckle under the changes (even if they still censored my girl rouge). we can only hope things shift back in the right direction and twitter crazies all lose their jobs as game writers. please. if you wanna enact some change, i am dead serious, try to send a polite message to the japanese branches of the companies this happens to.
36:09 No wonder some of the female OC’s in the comics rubbed me the wrong way. Nearly all of them are cut from the same cloth; badass girls that kick butt. They even took Lanolin the Sheep, who started off as a cute little feminine sheep gal and turned her into a no-nonsense army woman. The latter has been received poorly so far because of her attitude. At least that’s finally getting some closure. But, at this point, Amy Cream and Vanilla are the only females who remain their feminine, bubbly selves. I guess Jewel might count, too, but she’s no Amy.
I personally like Tangle and Whisper and i do think they still embody feminine traits, just not the same ones as Amy or Rouge. Tangle is a thrill seeker similar to Sonic, a total adrenaline junkie, but she is also clumsy and has a very goofy, bubbly personality, and can get quite emotional. Whisper is soft spoken and has a motherly relationship with her Wisp friends, who is the last thing she had after her team was killed, and is probably one of the more kind characters in the comic, as a sniper she embodies a support role which is often attributed as feminine (shes also a not so subtle reference to Quiet from Metal Gear). As for Lanolin, it's a shame because she did actually have a good thing going in the Eggperial City arc. Character development and team building with Whisp/tangle, but Stanley decided to throw that out the window for le drama with the thing with Silver and Mimic. She herself is a mother hen kinda like Sally in Archie, having more leader traits after Sonic inspired her to become stronger. She is definitely thrown too far in one direction and it definitely annoyed me they went that direction with the Mimic plot at all. Left a mark on her character.
@@Fractorification Jewel the Beetle and Belle the Tinkerer exist and they don’t kick ass whatsoever, they never fight while Belle just has one defense mechanism Why are you fuckers so against women being able to handle themselves? Do you want them to be useless or something?
@@TechBlade9000 Belle is also not much of a fighter too She can only do that kick thing with her tail but other than that she’s only capable at fixing stuff like Tails
@@ORLY911 okay, fair enough. They aren’t as traditionally feminine as the vanilla girls. However, as pointed out in the video, it’s very telling how out of the most prominent OC girls in the comic, Ian and co’s first thought was to make them fighters. I also know we have Jewel and Bell, whom I like mind you, but because they’re not the badass girls/lesbian the writer are biased for, they don’t have nowhere near the same amount of screen time in the comic. Tangle and Whisper even got their own miniseries as soon as they were introduced before people even decided if they liked them or not. It seems pretty clear that the writers are playing favorites based on the traits the video described rather than the feminine traits they might posses. To put into perspective, I loathe most of Whisper’s dramatic stories, and the ones that I find myself enjoying are the ones when she’s happy, having fun or being a goober. But those moments are sadly rare just to make way for more Mimic drama. That’s just the type of stories they find appropriate for them.
Ian doesn't like girls being feminine anymore, it's obvious with how he does his female characters. Amy has always been a girly girl who has monster strength when it comes to protecting her friend. She'll go big sister mode or mother mode if it's needed. What he's trying to do is make amy Princess sally which I find annoying because AMY ISN'T SALLY. I swear if they remake sonic adventure they better not let Ian write her
To all current sonic fans who love the hedgehog like I do, this video isn’t a blind attack on your favorite writer, it’s a critique worth at least considering. You may appreciate what new changes have come to the story of sonic, maybe even more than ever, and that’s awesome, opinions and all that, but look… If you’ve ever felt like your view of the sonic world has been shunned for the past decade or so (2010’s), thennnn yeah…we were right there with you. So it’s understandable that we all welcomed Ian with open arms at first, but don’t stop there. As already discussed in this video that you DIDN’T skip to hate comment on…Ian has demonstrated a capacity to know about and (re)write sonic lore, but *please* don’t tell me that he outright “understands” it, he is SO quick to throw out anything that was fundamental to sonic’s world and characters just to show and tell his favored depiction of this blue hedgehog, both you and Ian share striking similarities on that front. Sonic didn’t really need a fixing in the 2000’s, just better management decisions and less crunch, Sonic was already well defined up til Free Riders. We’ll never have ANY grounds to harass people over their opinion on Sonic, so don’t you DARE think you can do the same to us when we share our grievances with the series’ current direction. Feel free to still yell at me though if you wanna get that off your chest, stay sane out there.
okay so then why did he call every frontiers fan a slopeater in his frontiers video? or how he calls out people for using sonic as a symbol for oppression or using him for comfort in the LGBTQ+ community? and you act like dimitri is someone that deserves the defense that's not to mention all the stuff people found out about him recently
Can't wait for everyone to label this video an anti-woke Ian Flynn hitpiece without watching it. Very interesting how you can shit on Pontac and Graff or treat Ken Penders like the Anti-Christ of the series just fine but saying Ian's comic book writing is too far. Hope this series will recover from this strange western-captured state it's in eventually but don't see it happening soon. I liked the movies as their own separate take but I can easily see them learning the wrong lesson and attempting to turn game Sonic into Movie Sonic in a similar way to Ian turning game Sonic into Archie Sonic and us ending up with some freak combination of Archie and Movie.
I agree. I love Archie sonic but game sonic isn't Archie sonic. I don't like how they messed up the entire thing making it feel so confusing with the variations of the character. I like all sonics but I don't wish to change anything about them. Let game sonic be game sonic
@@Karessertin103 Yea, and worth noting Archie sonic is an extension of SATAM Sonic, which existed in a period where there wasnt nearly as much game related lore to the characters traits, so they had to make up their own thing. It is a perfectly valid interpretation of the character, but it doesn't gel with what game Sonic is, who is established very cleanly in Adventure going a specific direction of being a free spirit, roguish hero rather than the as stated by the video, boyscout of Archie and Flynn's characterization.
If the trend keeps going, someone else will come write Sonic, make some improvements but still lack somewhere else, and we'll be finally allowed (and incentivized) to shit on Flynn and co. Rinse and repeat.
@TheShmish. Doubt the movies will impact how the games are beyond stuff like including skins/costumes from their universe or Eggman dancing around with Sage.
It's so funny how Western Sonic staff who are lauded for not putting Archie-tier stories in the comics actually all just want to make gay teenybopper drama plots and the only thing stopping them from making IDW Archie again is SEGA lol.
Accurate in a million levels. Also people forget Ian Flynn slipped in what I assume to be a lesbo fetish between Sally Acorn and Nicole after the first crossover with Mega Man
@arcticarduino Eggman alone in the Metal Virus arc is written as close as he can to how Flynn wrote him in Archie while still trying to be how Flynn sees the game version of the character (an incapable villain who never "plans ahead" and is easily outdone by "real" villains like Zavok).
5:26 This "Will they, won't they" is very interesting not just for Amy... ...Because I can certainly recall THAT HANDHOLDING within issue #63 of IDW between Blaze & Sonic as two hanging out just for fun without it feeling forced, a hidden crush... ...THAT was a carrot on a stick, a tease of something that will never get anywhere since Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure turning 20-18 years on November of 2025, the whole story of appreciating the world around you & being able to ask others for help without sacrificing your responsibilities.... In one specific way, Sonic showing Blaze freedom before Elise was even a thing. *...A tease with no resolve, a maze with no prize. Why include it?* Edit: I like Sonaze on a personal level not purely because she can kick in heels (certainly a thing), but MOSTLY because she's a ballerina *fiery* witch from another dimension, she didn't have too much friends, she was the only one trusted with responsibility of protecting her home in dire situation + an completely alien to her environment... Ironically, It was SONIC, who takes the pro-active role of Amy, he wanted what he does best, show her she can rely on others, he only fought her AFTER trying to convince her to work together... In comics, HE wanted to show her the beauty of Spagonia, HE enjoyed his time fighting and dodging dangers with Blaze. HE WANTED HER TO ENJOY HER VACATION OR LIFE. She brought elegance & getting the job done, He brought style and doing things the flashy way! **It's all about Blaze opening up to realize her true self, in a way that even Bayonetta would be proud** I don't have problem with Sonamy, I might as well accept Sonaze will never happen, but what Sega was trying to do all those years prior with Sonic Rush only to demolish her character in Sonic '06? Then releasing Sonic Rush Adventure to fix their mistakes? Then doing absolutely nothing? Amy is the *Heart* of the team, Blaze is the *So(u)l* of the Team Sonic works best with both of them, because neither of these two gals don't want to change Sonic, but to accept him as he is... just running along with him _If Ian Flynn wants Boom Amy back, then let him greenlight Sonic Boom Season 3 and see what he does with her..._
Because they know people will clip those panels and post on social media for clicks. This is what this comic has become, it is baiting for clicks. To be fair, the ending of Sonic Rush had some romantic implications with the way Sonic and Blaze were animated. I do believe Blaze is Sonic's "soulmate", because they compliment each so perfectly, yet they can never be with each other because they exist in separate worlds - this Sonic remaining free. But I think Amy is the perfect partner for Sonic, because she confronts Sonic instead of keeping him in his comfort zone.
@CanaldoZenny Both are confrontational but can't argue with tastes, you do you It's like that meme... "LEAVE ME ALONE" **Sonaze** "Ahh" **Sonaze** *_*AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH*_*
@@platanoluver Its true though and people need to admit many written queer relationships are poor caricatures of relationships or outright wish fulfillment. Im speaking as someone who like Tangle and Whisper as a ship, but I also am in favor of not pressing it into the comics, because the series is not about that and I feel it would flanderize the heck out of both of them.
@@ORLY911It's pretty funny how much relationship drama there is in the comic side of the franchise. I like Archie as a different interpretation, but damn does it feel like a teen drama at points. I fully understand why Sega effectively went no more relationships. So it's a ballsy move to try to push the envelope like that, but it comes off as tumblr writing with how much they want it to be real or saying characters secretly have a relationship. Kind of a weird contrast to the games where only few characters have relationships and it's due to aspects of Sonic bringing out the feelings in them.
You know this is something i have noticing . People are being blinded by the “ Good” That not one can criticize anything. If there is an issue or if you say something about a certain character you get a backlash. These writers are making more issues and many people in fan base is making it worse by defending them when you criticize their work,I’m a not hating these guys. However, looking at what you discussed it is way worse than I thought. Like , people are hype for the good things that came out last year. However , it does not change the situation we are in. The stuff that made this series special may not happen as much. I’m not saying this a fan , I’m saying as a person is worried about the future. That future is very uncertain, it has been like that for a long time. Thanks, for a great video Dimitri
“People are being blinded by the Good that no one can criticize anything.” Yeah. It’s called Toxic Positivity. Something that has been an issue within the Sonic Fanbase as of recent.
It reminds me of the myth of Icarus, the fanbase has been to close the sun question is. Is it going to make the fanbase and series fall into more issues.
@@Probably_CLOUDit happens a lot in fandom spaces, it’s extremely popular with the more progressive types. They infiltrate the normal fandoms because a lot of fandoms are friendly, they get in no problem but then they start finding things to complain about and because no one wants to cause issue they are allowed to keep causing trouble until they eventually succeed in pushing out the old audience and begin calling the original audience “tourists”. The guilty gear fandom is one of the best modern examples of this; a smaller, niche fighting game community that because of one game (strive) and especially one character (Bridget) suddenly became infested with genuine tourists who love to get in fights and cause disharmony.
@@DMAN99 Yup, every time. So much so some try to say Sonic was "always progressive" pointing to his hating oppression bit in a manual, while failing to understand their own politics are authoritarian, and Sonic is very much the polar opposite of that, since anyone truly embracing freedom would not be shutting down discussions and trying to oust people from fandom spaces for having different opinions.
17:12 This. This scene alone made me understand the intire dynamic of their relationship. I grew up with sonic, I hallways saw Amy running after sonic, at the time I didn't think much of it (I was a kid) but looking back on some games (not free riders her character there is horrible) it had some little details that tells the story of a girl who surpasses her limits to do what she loves. I kind of understand when people say Amy's character is just to run after sonic, os just a stalker, but that's just looking at the surfuce of the character the 2 best exemples are the adventure games in adventure 1 she had her own story it envolved sonic but it wasn't the main focus her main mission was to reunite a family of flickies and she asked sonic to help, in adventure 2 she had a small role but she was the one who released sonic from jail * and also the one who made shadow remember his promise to Maria if her only purpose was to run after sonic she wouldn't had made any of this possible. Like it's said in the video (great video btw) Amy follow Sonic not just because she loves him but also because she loves the adventures she goes on with him, and Sonic he doesn't like commitment buecause he is a free spirit but when Amy doesn't follow him he gets conflicted feellings, wich means (to me at least) that he loves Amy but doesn't know how to handel it or show it so he does what he always does and "just run", and I guess i likes when Amy runs with him. *(side note: if she really was a stalker she would never had let sonic out of jail until he really married her)
He's good at concepts, big ambitious ideas and writing grand epic plot. But he completely misunderstands the characters themselves. It's just that it's not to Pontiac's level of misunderstanding.
The comments here are abysmal, but I want you to know, this is one of the few Sonic video essays I actually watched and enjoyed fully. You entirely summarize my issues with Ian Flynn and his interpretation of Amy, and how even within the fandom, people will warp her character to suit their own agenda, with a lot of Amy haters going from "she's annoying" -> "she's too badass".
36:09 i would like to point out that Tangle share many traits with Amy, she is energetic, optimistic, silly, brave, impulsive, adventurous and was also inspired by Sonic to be stronger (but without any romantic aspects), the biggest differences is that Tangle is less emotional mature and way more tomboyish, so Flynn essentially created a character very like Amy but without the traditionally feminine parts, it says a lot about him Anyway great video, finally someone who understands Amy
Probably why I think Tangle wasn't necessary and don't like her too much. She only exists for Whisper. Whisper was ok until they made her all about Tangle, which ironically they were trying to avoid with Sonamy. We also already have a character with tail powers?! His name is Tails! Maybe different, but still. Also they way they ruined Silver for haha Whisper fanboy. I was so annoyed by people saying the issue with Whisper having a breakdown over Tangle getting the metal virus in an anticlimactic moment added for drama was so emotional they cried and completely ignored the issue where Cream called Amy her hero while Amy was struggling to be brave (one of the few good Amy moments) and how most of the Chaotix got the metal virus. Like, Whisper and Tangle's story wasn't really that tragic. It was over-dramafied after they spent ONE DAY OF ADVENTURE together. Personally the weakest during the Metal Virus arc for me, even worse than the Shadow one. Anyways, the Chaotix are family. And Amy and Cream are like sisters. Their moments were sadder, hands down. When I tried saying this to a friend at the time, teasing that I didn't cry over Tangle and Whisper after being told I would 500 times, that person responded annoyed.
@captkate-yz8kd genuinely Amy feel a lot less lively, because now Tangle is filling her role it sucks, Tangle also sucks as a character because all she does is being a watered down version of Amy and actually purely exist for ship bait, given how she is straight always glued to Whisper, Amy who is accused of just being a shipbait is never all the time glued with Sonic in other hand
@@Pikasurfing1 Exactly. If he wanted more Amy moments, have her spend time with Cream. And I think Tangle should've been scrapped. Whisper could work, but she'd need some writing improvement. Also Tangle's design is so bland. Like girl what is that outfit?! At least Whisper has a cool design. And Ian hates Amy's design?! Sure she could work with a slightly different design (not necessary), but something like a cute ponytail with a ribbon that resembles a heart or a nice sash, maybe a dress with frills (I would like this as an alternate outfit!), but not that ugly dull Boom design (Boom had really dull colors imo. Sonic Prime did colors better, even if the characterization was a little off sometimes.) Tangle adds nothing new either. We have a speedster who loves freedom, a flying two-tailed fox inventor, a strong big fist guardian, a sweet adventurous girl with a bigger hammer, etc. Then we have Tangle that borrows aspects from everyone else (living in a little boring village and wants adventure? Amy's first cutscene in SA1 is very similar), using tail to fight (Tails has used his tails before to hit I believe. Either way, his defining aspect is his tail), admiring Sonic's adventurous spirit that inspires her (a lot of characters, mainly Amy and Tails), being attached to someone's hip... Do I need to go on?
@@captkate-yz8kd Tangle's tangle ability was originally suposed to belong to Infinite, but since it was discarded during sonic forces development, they gave it to her, if you ask me, he would have done a far better use with it than her.
@Raincloud5137 That's actually pretty interesting. They could've done a lot with Infinite's ability to create illusions though more than that to the fact it wouldn't be necessary. Imagine him sending someone into their worst nightmare. Instead we get "oh no we're trapped in a weird empty void space... DOUBBBBBLLLLLLE..... BOOST!TOGETHERWECAN SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WE CAN DO-"
This video is pretty much everything that triggers those nu-Sonic fans you see all over twitter lol. I'm sure there will be tweets shit talking this video with over 60K likes. But I'm with you. I miss Amy acting like Amy.
Honestly, my biggest gripe is the knee-jerk reaction to ANY sort of criticism. I like the direction the series is currently going in, in fact I think the franchise as a whole is in the best spot its been in years, but that doesn't mean it can't be *much better* That doesn't mean strange or inconsistent writting choices shouldn't be called out and that the constant callbacks aren't shallow.
@@CanaldoZenny because it should've been the definitive version of the game that everyone's been asking for for years, with all of the content from fes and p3p, but instead it's mostly just a straight remake of the og game. you could buy fes and p3p for cheaper AND get more content.
well this changes how i see Amy entirely. i always thought she was weird since she was always chasing sonic and he was always running away from her, so she seemed like an obsessed fan while sonic just wanted to get away from her. i guess i never noticed he secretly liked her back.
One small step into the right direction. Maybe one day Sega will wake up and not have American writers handling Sonic stories. Or very least hire someone who truly understands Sonic and is far removed from fandom culture, like Pariah.
@@TheKing-uu7jnShiro Maekawa I believe is no longer at Sega. I think he is at Square Enix. They still other writers that could do a better job, like Tyson Hesse (when he is not busy with is job at Hollywood), and Takashi Iizuka (which understands Sonic character writing far better than Ian Flynn, as shown in Sonic Superstars).
The fucking description on the Sega channel nailed it, 1000000% That's exactly the charm of the relationship between the two. It should never change. It's evergreen just like Sonic's restleness and boundless energy as he runs to his next adventure. Simple things. Just like how Funimation doesn't "get" Goku's character and changed him into Superman. The only difference between Sonic and Goku is that one technically married and had kids and still did what he wanted but the other just isn't meant to since not even the humour of said series vees off to that direction and it's also why both series have so much overlap, whether they like it or not(the fans certainly do from what I gather). Hell, Oshima in his tweet basically said the loud part out loud about what could easily be Goku and Chichi's relationship that Toriyama didn't say(dunno if he actually did say it in an interview though). I think that if not for Sonic 06's infamous scene, many would have dismissed the various comics lines since they were largely confined in two different countries for a long time but 06 brought that attention and his relationship to Amy and others to a much more loud forefront. I could be wrong but it seems like ground zero for the current debates and changes around Amy that have lead to this video started there. PS : A note on the "Piko-Piko Hammer" or "Picohan(From Piko Piko Hanma, which means "Squeaky Hammer")" in the japanese versions, that seem to be in Tales as well is that either very feminine characters have it(such as Colette or Mint in Tales) or very sensitive boys(Leon Magnus for fuck's sake) compared to tomboys(Rutee Katrea) or the men and the boys(Stahn, who's very much like Sonic). The gameplay informs one of the story as well and the comics have always missed that. Double so when it comes to the Tales fanbase, not realising what lies in the hearts of characters. PPS : The thought of a Sonic writer not being able to identify the shitposting parody goodness of Sonic Boom and thinking it's progress, even when it comes to the designs, is comedy gold. Amy's design fits in Boom because she's being a parody of herself just as the show is a parody of Sonic in general, not just the games; it's laughing with the fanbase for some of the absurdities and bringing that kind of thing to the manstream games, loses its appeal.
@RiderWithTheScarf Even now I get the impression a lot the forced parallels made between Sonic and Dragon Ball go off the dubs (that and the ones doing it are just not that familiar with battle shonen).
This is why I don’t like Ian Flynn’s writing he’s trying to fix problems that weren’t even problems because it’s not what he thinks of these characters this is also why I don’t like IDW comic run of Sonic
It’s kinda like hiring a handyman to fix a sink but he starts replastering your wall because he didn’t like how it looked. Mate, the problem isn’t here, it’s in the bathroom with the leak.
@@SillyTron_ the problem is not how sega wants Ian and the others to write them…like the video it shows how Ian wants changes like the romance of Sonic and Amy when that was never a problem even Sega still wants it. But Ian Flynn didn’t want that so he tried to change it to just be friends until Sega stopped them
Im going to be entirely honest Modern sonic pisses me off The art direction, the characterization, the lack of gameplay quality It all frustrated me endlessly Idk who wrote the sonic adventure games Bring them back Please i beg This is why I like adventure games/designs the most. Thank you for putting everything that frustrates me about sonic into a video. Edit: i liked this video a lot btw, even if my comment is me bashing my skull into a wall yet again
couldn't agree more! atleast the meta era is over but so many issues are still left hanging. sonic was always about the edge and style and now it feels so sterile and same. i agree with what you said, the art direction, characterizations and the overall vibe is off. i understand people who just don't care enough but for me modern sonic suffers from so many small issues it actually worsens the series' quality overall
27:20 When Ian was asked about Silver being rude in Japanese he said that Silver "doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchise". I know he wrote him being polite in Archie but Ian seems to think that game Silver has NEVER been rude which is insane if you've ever even looked at the Rivals games or Sonic Colors DS.
@@solomonm.840 Silver is explicitly more rude than other characters in the Rivals games and other characters call him out on it all the time. Everyone does petty things so races can happen in Rivals but Silver has almost the same personality as Surge the Tenrec with how he talks and insults people. Silver's rude attitude is in his dialogue for every game he's in except the English dub of Team Sonic Racing. Even Sonic Speed Simulator has it. There's also Silver's Japanese pronouns and mannerisms like how he uses Ore and Anta instead of polite words like Boku and Kimi.
It always confused me how people would see Amy's more "eccentric moments" in her chase for Sonic as something they needed to take deathly serious and accuse her of being an abusive stalker. It's supposed to be funny, it's a cartoon hedgehog! Laugh a little.
Even if they don't think it's funny, what I find even more baffling is how they'll single out those moments as if she never did anything else. Heroes is a perfect example of this: she spends an entire game leading Big and Cream to find their missing friends but for some reason they act like her only moment in the game is the fight with Team Sonic.
Tbf I used to not like the Sonic vs Amy battle in Sonic Heroes. I just think it felt like finding Sonic was her main goal due to it being her first line in the first cutscene. Not that I dislike Amy as a whole and Sonic and Amy's relationship. It was just confusing back then. Plus, Amy seemed genuinely upset afterwards. And Sonic seemed like he actually didn't want to be bothered that time. Again, I'm not saying to make them into a typical couple or that Amy is a creepy stalker. It honestly could be that I misinterpreted it because I was younger and hadn't played as much Sonic yet, nor did I understand nuance.
In defence of the fans, the media also had a bias towards female representation in media for years. As well as always hating on Sonic games as the industry's biggest punshing bag. There's no telling how much of the hate was legit or exagerations doe to their political beliefs.
There's this one really funny tweet that I still think about that poked fun at Ian Flynn's "will they, won't they" comment: it basically said that if Ian Flynn were in charge of Tom and Jerry, he'd probably have Tom kill Jerry so that "the series can finally move on" lmao
Except that Sonic isn’t dependent on Sonamy being canon or getting rid of unlike a show like Tom and Jerry where you need Jerry for the series to go on because that’s the main premise
@@Strawberrynutt Sonic and Amy's dynamic may not be the crux of the entire series, but it certainly is the crux of their relationship. Viewing Sonic and Amy's relationship as a "will they, won't they" is too binary and it ignores the nuances of how they feel about each other. It's the same reason that asking why Sonic doesn't just kill Eggman and vice versa is ridiculous: because neither of them want to do that. Sonic may be ontologically opposed to Eggman, but he has fun putting a stop to his antics, and he doesn't really care what Eggman's up to once he's not hurting anybody anymore. Likewise, Eggman may be a genius, but he's also an egomaniac and loves a challenge. He sees Sonic's opposition as a chance to prove how great he is, and as annoying as he finds Sonic, he secretly respects him. The same thing goes for Sonic and Amy. They'll never "tie the knot" so to speak because that would ultimately undermine what they love about each other. Amy loves Sonic because he's a free spirit who does what feels right to him, and Sonic loves Amy because of her unwavering optimism and persistence. Amy loves the chase, and Sonic loves the adventure that comes from the chase. It may seem tragic from an outsider's perspective: two individuals who love each other, but what they love about each other is also what keeps a tantalizing distance between them. And yet, Sonic and Amy wouldn't have it any other way. There's no reason to canonize "SonAmy" because that dynamic IS SonAmy. For all intents and purposes, Sonic and Amy are romantically involved, even if it's in their own strange way. That way may seem a bit immature, and it certainly is to an extent, but that's also where the beauty lies. Their relationship is this encapsulation of young love, what it feels like to be overcome with infatuation for someone else and eager to show your affection, and also what it feels like to be overcome with embarassment and hesistant to reciprocate that affection. In that way, perhaps there's no better relationship for two hedgehogs to have, a "hedgehog's dilemma," if you will 😏
@Strawberrynutt it's actually a great example because they both have the same intended appeal. You don't watch Tom and Jerry because you wanna know if Tom will get him this time, as the answer is always "no." The fun is watching their dynamic bring about wacky hijinks as they try to one-up each other. In the same way, you don't watch Sonic and Amy's relationship because you wanna know if Sonic will agree to marry her this time, because again, the answer will always be "no." You watch their relationship because it's fun to see the lengths Amy will go to tease Sonic, and to then see a character who's so cool and confident in the face of danger suddenly get stunned by a girl trying to flirt with him.
I hope Ian goes to write for something else or gets corrected or forced to write her properly, because I want Amy back, and Miss "I don't need no man" is so bland and annoying. I mean... Even Sonic Speed Simulator has a correctly written Amy. The final dialogue from the crystal event is about not being able to be kept away from her Sonic.
Another banger dimitri. >Sonic is the wind, Amy is the soft breeze that follows behind. Perfect metaphor. Where oh where did that comforting breeze go…
As much as I love Frontiers and Shadow Generations, the writing flaws are there. Especially in Frontiers. And also, funnily enough, I’m in such a weird way, glad that the censorship of Rouge ripped off the facade of “anti-censorship” people have been wearing. Because why defend censorship? Did we not learn from the English Dub of Sonic X where scenes and character moments were removed? Did we not learn from video game history?
31:41 Yeah! I loved that character development for Amy in (game that doesn’t exist) it was great! Seriously, I don’t know why people make this argument that she had character development. What character development, what are you talking about? Shadow literally shows character development throughout multiple games, Amy on the other hand, changed out of the middle of nowhere.
Ian flynn changing the dialog in generations makes me think he doesn't really care about sonic, regardless of sega's restrictions the dialog doesn't feel meaningful. Fans main argument for why amy dosen't have an arc in frontires is she never comes to the realization that she wants to care about other people besides sonic. Instead of hinting at the change so it made more sense in frontires it was just removed for the most part. Its not even that sega is that stingy about their relationship, it was on full display in the ("murder of sonic the hedgehog")
As an ex-sonic fan, I would never wish for revisit the series in the state it's in now. For all the raw toxicity and childish whining, it was all just in the confines of fiction. As soon as it got political, it was over. Sonic is a cartoon character for children, he's not a slogan for gay people or any political faction (yes even libertarians). Unless ESGs get outlawed and/or the bad actors in and out of sega get removed from control of the franchise, there's no point having any hope for sonic getting revived. I played and enjoyed Sonic because he's unrealistic and fun. Not because he was "literally me".
@@D4RKL0RDARES LGBT+ is a political movement. And sexuality is an adult topic no matter how to twist it, and therefore ought not be in children's content/medium. Also it's *because* sonic is apolitical that it allow for all to enjoy his character/games. No sane person cares who and what type of person also plays Sonic games.
I like watching videos on what people don’t like about the comic’s writing because I want to write and draw whatever Sonic comics are running when I’m an adult, so I know what not to do.
Man, such a good video. You' ve encapsulated every problem i have with the current direction of sonic. The thing that anoys me the most is that they treat what is an essentially different character like if it was the same
When sega drives, they scratch all the paint off without damage the glass somehow... But when they hand the keys to someone else, they get a while of perfect driving but end up having to fish it out of a canyon suddenly after...
I feel like if Sonic did not want her there, she would be there at all. Sonic is not the type of dude to just hang around people he doesn't like, she would have been gone a long time ago if he didn't want her around.
Ian if he gets control of the designs: We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt off the menu. That's right! We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt OFF THE MENU!!
I had no idea the difference between the Japanese dub and the American one were becoming so great. I'll have to start checking these games out in Japanese
44:23 No one ever mentions this when talking about why the questions started needing moderation so I was under the assumption that it was just because some people were being mean spirited. That's kind of wild that he'd say that on a live stream that's most likely got children tuning in to watch.
Yeah people need to chill it and have failed over and over to understand, at the end of the day, this is an all ages property, keep it in your pants and it was wrong of Flynn to enable it.
Saying Amy was never a damsel is like saying Sonic CD (Amy’s first appearance) never happened & the whole point of her arc in Sonic Adventure was that she wanted to prove she wasn’t a damsel anymore didn’t happen
One of my big points I always put out too, her arc in Frontiers/sort of IDW is just a worse version of her Adventure arc, it's not as solidly told and it eschews her feminine traits in favor of girlbossing, as they say. Tails is in a similar boat that was more so to correct the huge problem of his Forces portrayal so it's not as big an issue (and entirely justified imo)
The statement very obviously is not supposed to be taken literally. This is if I said said Tails has never been stupid you come and point out times he made mistakes and were dumb. What Dimitri saying here is that Amy was not written to be character that just fills the Damsel role. A female character is not just a damsel simply becuase she was saved by the male lead.
You missed the point entirely willfully or otherwise. Men get saved all the time in media, so do women. It's how it is portrayed and what the character is in that world that matters.
the issue is the oversimplification. "media literacy" types soyface the fuck out when they can simplify a female character into a problematic trope because she has to be saved at any point, as though that's all she is now. it's a con. a grift. yes, she was damseled at times but she was never JUST a damsel. you get it yet?
There truly aren't many things out there as pathetic as seeing a dude in his 30s telling you to shut up about censorship in a franchise they supposedly care about, all because they never grew up out of high school and still are genuinely terrified of being called a "cringe weeaboo.". Whether it's Sonic or Fire Emblem or any other Japanese franchise, millennials will always find a way to make discussion around them 100x worse. Also great work here! If an Amy video was an hour, I fear for the Himari segment in your ba video
48:25 Don't call them that. My girl Korone shouldn't be lumped alongside these people. This video is excellent, and hopefully it can not only be a good point of debates about characterization in Sonic games moving forward, but also as feedback. That being said... I still can't help myself but love Sonaze, THEY'RE THE GOATS
LOL the actual brand ambassadors didn't even register in my mind. She's a good dog, I didn't mean it! And thanks, I have a acquaintance who loves sonaze, even has an OC for their kid. Definitely see the appeal!
I will say I came into this video completely on the other side of the argument, I genuenly felt like it was gonna be one of those “amy shouldn’t be her own person” kinda video, but i actually left mostly on your side lol, great video. I will say, I don’t think Ian being part of the fandom is the only reason for peopel defending him, me and others just felt happy that we were out of the “Sonic Forces” trenches in terms of writing and characterization. Ian Flynn was a breath of fresh air, even if not perfect, and I’m willing to give him a chance to maybe improve on what he’s done, because I truly believe he does care about the franchise. I also feel like places like Twitter are not places for conversations and discussions, people do not go into that app for anything other than internet points by dunking on others and rage bait, and I feel that warps the perception of the greater fandom that may have more nuanced takes and feelings on the franchise and the writing and Ian Flynn. I will also say that even though I understand your points, I feel like sometimes you were too antagonistic against Ian Flynn, again, I’m not here defending, but just something I felt. I believe he cares and tries his best, even if his best is not something you agree with, but its not an excuse to say he may not like the series at all, or that his thoughts from 2005 are emblematic of who he is today. Finally, I will just say that it was genuinely a great video, and I left with a new perspective, we may disagree on some stuff, but you made a good point and changed my views on the topic haha
This video made fall even more in love with the old Amy. It makes me miss her so much, it makes me angry with how current sega is treating her character.
It’s a shame about Sonic and Sally’s relationship since most of the original Archie staff left. Ian Flynn and Mike Pellerito never wanted Sonic and Sally to be together and instead wanted to ship Sally with Nicole in the reboot.
I enjoyed Frontiers and the IDW comics, but I had this concern when thinking about Sonic 4 (the movie). I’m afraid they might portray Amy as a stereotypical 'girl boss' who doesn’t have a crush on Sonic, while Sonic ends up being the one with a crush on her. This feels like a real possibility, and it would be SO bad. It’s funny, though, because I didn’t have any issues with Frontiers (probably because it felt like something different), and I enjoyed the IDW comics since there are many plot points I like. But with the movie, which should adapt Sonic CD, I really feel this concern-and I’m worried about it.
This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. It feels like it's really popular to make the woman super super dominant and the man is basically a simp or just acts like a normal "freind" to the woman. I understand not wanting to make Amy tooo crazy. However Amy and the rest of the Sonic characters are kind like kids. It wouldn't make sense for Amy to already be really mature and independent. They need to adapt the characters as faithfully as possible (which they have been doing well so far). Like you said taking some influence from Sonic CD. I can't stand that just because Amy was so open and direct about her love that it makes her less of a character to some people.
@perfectoblivion254 yes! Besides, I find her crush on Sonic cute. That's what I like about anime, they don't shy from showing crushes as something cute and adorable.
Most likely scenario: Paramount will not allow Amy to have romantic feelings for Sonic, but likewise, Sega will not allow Sonic to have romantic feelings for Amy. That would be a step too far, and always has been.
You know when some people say that shipping ruins a show or series? I also feel the same way about headcanons now. Some writers, artists, and fans just can’t help but try to force their headcanons onto characters and a series to the point where it’s no longer it’s normal self anymore. And if said thing doesn’t follow their headcanons, they get really angry and toxic online. I have come to hate headcanons just as much as I hate shipping. This kind of shit is why I stay outside of most fandoms of anything I’m a fan of. The current western writers such as Ian Flynn are not being “bullied” by Sega Mandates like what Sonic fans want to believe. They are just trying way too hard to force their personal headcanons and biases of the characters and such into the series and they’re just mad that Sega doesn’t simply allow that. But if you dare point that out, you’re evil and a “fake fan” I guess. Can’t say anything even slightly negative about our lord and savior, Ian Flynn. Nope, he’s just this untouchable god that can do no wrong that this fucking fanbase worships like a cult, I guess. The Sonic Franchise is an undeniable mess and that’s why some believe that the fans should have more control over it. But I think that if fans were to have full, unlimited control over the franchise, it would still be a fucking mess. Just a different kind of mess. Same thing to any other franchise if fans were to have full, unlimited control over it. Also, learning about that whole Krack932 situation in the video made me lose respect for IDW Sonic and the staff behind it. The fact that Ian Flynn liked that tweet from Daniel Barnes made me lose respect for him as a person. I don’t feel comfortable reading IDW Sonic now. It also felt off to me anyways, especially since they’re trying to push it as being part of the games’ canon. Such disgusting behavior. All of the toxic positivity going on in this fanbase will be its own undoing. That whole segment about the fanbase current toxicity reminds me of why the Sonic Fanbase still maintains its infamous and toxic image to this day. But at this point, they pretty much ask for it. Why does Sonic always attract the most toxic kind of people? Better yet, why does any franchise (especially ones aimed at kids) that primarily focuses on themes involving friendship, teamwork, love, kindness, enjoying life, acceptance, freedom, etc. always attract the most toxic kind of people in its fanbase? And well, this is pretty much why I stay outside of fanbases, including the ones that revolve around the franchises I love. That, and I personally don’t feel like I fit in well with them nor belong in them anyways. But I’ll still be a fan of the things that I love. If someone thinks that I’m a fake fan just because I’m not constantly worshiping and kissing the behind of a writer or because I personally don’t like a certain installment in a series or whatever, then that’s their problem. I decide what I am and am not a fan of personally, not them. I’ll be a fan of whatever I want to be a fan of.
For the last thing you said, I saw someone else speak about this way back. It could be because of how the franchise presents itself. I and some others have noticed that if a series is darker like Breaking Bad or Berserk, the fans tend to be calmer and more respectable. But for the more child friendly fanbases, they tend to be the most hostile and toxic out of all of them. It might be because of how each character lives their lives in their respective worlds. The reason Berserk fans are so calm is because no one wants to live the life Guts had and the reason Sonic fans are like that might be because of how happy that world is and the lives the characters live. Not many Sonic characters are too tragic. They'll have tragic backstories but their present and the future will be positive, with Silver once being the exception. It's always weird how the brighter ones are always like this, but years of being around them lets you see more and more how they are and why that's the case.
@ It was shown in the video through the screenshots and explained. Seeing that made me feel disgusted and lose respect for IDW Sonic and its staff. Though now, I kinda wish it had its own video going more in depth about it. To be honest, I don’t use Twitter either as I hate the platform and how toxic it is. But this whole thing reminded me of how toxic Sonic Twitter is and knowing how the people who work on the official product are like this is sad to see.
I love how true this video is, I've been in the Sonic "Fandom" and they are not real fans, I have been attacked for just enjoying the games, heck I've been on Discord servers afraid to talk about Sonic from fear of being bullied. these "Fans" are not real fans, they are bullies and morons that want to gate keep Sonic from the real fans and Ian Flynn, I don't hate him but I can say I don't like his style of writing, it just makes all my favorite characters feel like one dimensional and watered down. yet when someone brings it up suddenly we get attacked. I was even harassed on a live stream while watching someone over saying I enjoyed a Sonic game, I love and will always enjoy Sonic games but I stopped even trying to be around any large group of "Fans" because of this. Amy Rose is my favorite character because she is feminine and not that boring "Better then everyone else because Woman" nonsense. I love the cute hearts as she swings her hammer and her love for baking while she does her best to go after the guy she loves. Lyn Flynn needs to be replaced with someone that respects the material because he clearly doesn't.
ian flynn haters are no better, you have people like randomfox going arround saying flynn should die and that people who enjoy sonic idw are not real sonic fans,
@@exchangediary968 Your point? "Bad people are on both sides" is literally a no brainer. The main thing that is important is how bad it is to have toxic positively support something that, proven with evidence, won't be good for the franchise in the long run.
@ the problem this is Sonic Teams decision, not Flynn not some evil scary none Japanese westerner out to destroy a Japanese creation with his evil agenda lmao, it’s what sonic team believes the international world wants since they encouraged prime boom and other writers to make Amy that way
I'm not even a big fan of Amy Rose pre-IDW, but I certainly dislike her even more as she currently is. I feel like I have to go out of my way to defend her whenever I say that I don't like how she currently is because there are people that will just be like "uh, actually she's better now", but no one gets her. There's so much I can say about this video, but the shorthand is that I have no idea what Ian's thinking. Going into someone else's series and then just making it his own thing, it almost sounds like he didn't like the series at all. But the worshipping of Ian is the worst part, and it's hard to fight against it because it seems that lots of people prefer the current direction of Sonic and its characters. Honestly, the fandom is just anti-criticism if you ask me and this is part of the reason I really do not like the Sonic fanbase. Sure they make some great fangames at times, but it's very rare to see someone actually understand the series. I feel like people like you and Pariah695 have strong understandings of the series, which is why I like listening to your opinions.
I really loved hearing your prespective on Amy, it's such a wonderful take. The misunderstanding of Amy's character truly is the embodiment of "If a teenage girl likes something, it means it's bad". Including when she likes boys and plays around I guess. She can be a little silly, she's allowed to.
15:00 This was a really interesting perspective on Sonic and Amy's relationship and by anything it really makes Amy really cool. I feel like that aspect of her character is rarely touched on directly but it's always been there. 23:56 And looking at Amy as the one who can truly bring an end to the series is hilarious and sad.
I have a theory that you touched on about amy towards sexualization of girl characters in general The idea Amy loves Sonic to the degree she does and is ok with his choices makes them see her as weak, but supporting the person she loves isnt weak, not many people can stand between the treat of the week and sonic and live to tell the tale Likewise i find if a girl character is sexualized in any way(not objectified just because those terms get used interchangably) then people tend to see the girl as less than before even if shes strong or likable or smart, none of her characteristics or drive matter anymore because real men find her sexually stimulating, this is why characters like Laura Croft and Bayo get fans once the new target shows up, just look at 2B, at release its "why is she so sexy" to "why do people only see her as sexy, only i understand her not those gooners", Its just sad that by that same logic they should have been on the characters side from the get go but it ultimately comes down to they dont like that peoples fantasies can be fufiled just like Amy chasing Sonic is the fantasy of a girl chasing a guy
It is odd how they were the ones to talk about Amy's underwear more than the so-called perverts. I wonder if they would be happy if she ran around nude like Sonic and Tails do.
Am a fan of the IDW comics but yeah I dislike how Ian wants to try and make Amy a girl boss and sever the relationship between her and Sonic. Amy can be independent and awesome but it’s much more awesome if that spark of heroism came from Sonic. She can still love Sonic while showing independence and having her moments. On one hand, I like how they made Amy less “clingy” towards Sonic but at the same time I hate how people like Ian wants to completely sever the connection with Sonic. Hope the writing for Amy gets better in the future.
Dude Amy clearly has the feelings Ian and the Idw writers are just making her able to be a character outside of her crush which was horribly written in the past seeing she attacked sonic for not dating her in forces and constantly tackled hedgehogs with no regard of personal space. Also fym completely sever her connection with sonic? Is that what you somehow got from her saying she wanted to spread love to the whole world?
@@miniwhiffy3465 No, Amy spreading love to the world is something I love about her character. What I meant by “sever” was how Amy’s relationship towards Sonic seems less about her being inspired by her hero now. I think it was awesome how Amy deeply cared about Sonic and how he inspired her. Now, it seems less like that and writers like Ian wanting Amy to be more of a girlboss. Don’t get me wrong there’s moments with Ian’s writing of Amy that I love but I wish it’s emphasized more how much Sonic inspired her and she shows more of her care of Sonic (of course not by making her clingy and going “Oh, my Sonic!”). To me, it makes Amy more of an interesting character from when she first met Sonic in CD to now working with the blue blur on multiple occasions, helping the world thanks to Sonic with what he stands for.
@TheSnappo i feel like they got the inspired by sonic part down in frontiers but alright, also frontiers happens after the metal virus and a bunch of IDW stuff so it'd make sense amy would be a decent bit more self supporting and "girlboss"ish.
Amy is not a girlboss, though. And that's the problem. This is a grown ass man who needed to rub his tendencies of modern writing of fictional women, like his nuts, all across the product which is an IP's character. You know, if dogs give some owners that problem, the owners remove them.
honestly, it seems to come down to both Flynn and Modern Localizers for the games, heck, even the "SEGA Mandates" were made up by Flynn himself as an excuse, he tried to get rid of the Freedom Fighters in Archie and was a reason Sonic ScanF got rid of their Comic Section, but yes, I too miss when Amy did show her Feelings, it's called Moderation, in which, most people and SEGA themselves don't seem to get and to be fair, I'll first say Sonic games should Focus on the Adventure first and foremost, it's find for Amy to crush just make sure it's appropriate for the situation, that said, I can see Sonic and Amy getting married, but not settling down, and just going about their lives like usually, Sonic loves adventure and fighting for what's right and Amy enjoys that part of him, so I don't see her stopping him either way, no need for kids tho, so boyfriend and girlfriend really EDIT: and I don't care what anyone says, IDW is not cannon and never will be, heck, if we go by that logic, the Movies are Cannon because of the Shadow DLC and that's one hole SEGA doesn't want to be stepping into EDIT 2: I think Flynn trying to make his own headcanon "Cannon" because his actions points to it, he tried getting rid of the Freedom Fighters despite them being Prime for the Comics yet want the Comics to be like the Games, just sayin', can't play both sides unless you want something in return, and after hearing about the Vetting, SEGA should just fire him at this point
Fantastic video as always, I also enjoyed the little side tangent on Silver, another character who's been horribly mischaracterized, despite being one of the most powerful characters in the franchise and in spite of the game he debuted in, had such a strong foundation for what his character could be like. Only for that to all be dropped to make him some soft-boy, especially in the comics. Silver is naive, yes, and you can't blame him given the future he's from, desperately seeking any sort of way to save it, but he should be determined and even a bit cocky. After all, he might as well have been toying with Sonic when he fought him the two times before Amy and Shadow intervened respectively. Now enough on Silver... for now, back to Amy, with the state her character has been headed, not only am I worried for new mainline games that may include her, but especially the rumored Sonic Heroes remake everyone keeps talking about. It's one thing to rewrite dialogue for a game that was originally made to celebrate the franchise, in which majority of the cast just stand around in a white void (not saying I agree with the change), but it'll be a whole other thing to completely rewrite dialogue for an entire campaign in which Amy is majorly focused on finding Sonic due to her crush, and where we get more of that fun banter between the two when their teams run into each other.
@@jakahawk The video stated that Amy is mainly focused on finding her friends and that Sonic was a side thing, but you're stating that Amy was mainly after Sonic. Which is it? Because I prefer the former.
To link this to something that happened recently. It feels like the IDW staff is the polar opposite of eggman's VA. Where they'll bitch and moan about not being able to do whatever they damn well please, meanwhile eggamn's va beats people with sticks when they ask him to make an announcement because SEGA doesnt want to make that characterization of eggman "canon" in any way. He respects the characters (or at least the wishes of the people in charge of those characters.) And the idw team only respects the ocs they injected into the story, both the ones with original designs and the ones they snuck in by having them wear the skin of actual characters.
I really often compare Amy's character (funnily enough) to Rose Tyler from Doctor Who, chasing that fleet footed love, the danger, excitement, always running towards the next threat with her hero
I find the line about being a damsel in distress hilarious considering that in Frontiers she IS a damsel in distress. At that very moment, stuck halfway in cyberspace.
Hell doesn't Amy canonically and gameplay wise have the strongest base physical power by just swinging around a fucking mallet
No@@tatsumitwi348
@@tatsumitwi348 exactly lol
Flynn really wrote himself into a corner with that line. Of all the times to have her say that, too 😂
@ yeah ngl
Amy is the closest thing to a "normal person" in the Sonic world when you think about it. Just a girl who Isn't superpowered but tries to do the right thing regardless. I really like those kinds of characters.
Similar to Sakura Haruno as well in Naruto.
Atleast she has been training with very heavy weights, as told and shown in Sonic Battles.
I'm convinced she's part echidna. And her strength is busted to hell
>Super strength, speed, reflexes, durability, can magically summon a destructive hammer and weaponizd cards
>Has been a stalker with anger issues who claimed to be someones girlfriend against their will for ages
>"CoMpLeTeLy NoRmAl."
Like, bro. You're playing the wrong series. She was never meant to be nornal. You're projecting a completely different archetype for no reason.
I wouldn't say "normal" in terms of superpowers because she has to have crazy strength and speed to not only carry a hammer but to be able to keep up with Sonic at least for a while.
That last part about the fandom's defensiveness over the IDW writers is accurate and part of a more significant problem. For a long time, the fandom has had a lot of animosity towards Sega for many reasons. Be it because of their direction, the writing or gameplay, the casting of particular actors, or meddling in projects leading to problems, you name it. It's always seen as an attack towards them, leading to a subsection of the fandom harboring deep resentment towards the company as a whole. So, when you have people like the IDW staff, Tyson Hesse, and Tee Lopes, who started as fans and are now living the dream, you bet they will defend them. Because they started out as us, the fans don't see them as part of a faceless corporation. They have people they can relate to and project whatever insecurities or headcanons they have onto them.
I remember witnessing this on a Reddit thread talking about Lanolin the Sheep. This character has been a polarizing subject since the comics debuted her as part of the main cast. Her negative attitude and tendency to jump to conclusions caused a large section of fans to find her unlikeable. Of course, many disagreed, but the number one defense they used was at Sega's expense, in which she doesn't abide by those pesky mandates because she's an OC. Therefore, she's written as more "human" and isn't supposed to be nice to the heroes and kiss their a**es like Sega would want them to. Never mind that these are meant to be flaws that the character is supposed to overcome. No, no, it's the writers sticking it to Sega because they're writing something different, therefore making it good.
Now listen, regardless of what you think of that character, the takeaway from this is that it's very telling how fans hold IDW staff in ridiculously high regard. They've framed the playing field as this "us vs. them" diatribe over years of harbored resentment that's starting to get out of hand. I don't even need to explain how these writers aren't automatically better than Sega because they don't want to follow a mandate. They're not perfect, and they can make mistakes too.
Ultimately, it's important to step back and recognize that idolizing one side while demonizing the other doesn't do anyone any good. Constructive criticism and balanced discussions are how we foster growth, not blind loyalty or antagonism. Whether it's Sega or the IDW staff, both are capable of creating something great and stumbling along the way. Fans would benefit more from embracing nuance instead of clinging to this divisive "us vs. them" mindset. After all, this franchise is supposed to bring us joy, not division.
100 percent agreed. Every time someone criticizes Ian or Evan people gaslight them and say theyre being unreasonable or "crazy haters" and will never listen to actual points people are making about the writing. I myself loathed the Misadventures arc with Lanolin/Silver/Mimic, it was a disaster and seemingly brought back the idiotic Archie era melodrama everyone was glad to be away from, but now suddenly people are all for it again to defend Stanley/Flynn. And hey, I'll be the first to say I actually do think theyre good writers, but they have _flaws_ in their writing and goals with the characters, and they either refuse to address them or the toxic positivity of their fans double down on it. I can recognize when they do good but will also point out when they do poorly. How can we make the content even better without negative feedback? You can't. It's also nothing personal or at least it _shouldn't_ be. I never made it personal when i complained about a specific story, but others did when fans started dunking on me and others for not liking everything.
@@ORLY911 I remember a lot of folks loosing it over Shadow getting knocked down a peg by the metal virus saga, but frankly it was nice to see him get his ego put in check. Plus I do find the way a lot of people justify Ian's writing is by saying, "At least its not Ken Penders".
@Cowboycomando54 I think peoples problem is Shadow having that ego to begin with. Shadow has an ego but its not born of pride but one of doing things his own way, he isn't Vegeta. People expected someone like Shadow to have more tact after all he's been through, a characterization demonstrated in 06 and Archie. Ken Penders had a lot of problems, but its also worth noting he did give us some good stories too and his art actually wasnt bad in some issues (a shame he regressed a lot since then). Penders was only one leg of the drama in Archie Sonic. He wasn't even responsible for the "slap" scene.
@ For me it is the issue of Shadow constantly calling him self the "ultimate lifeform" even though he will always loose to Sonic, and he knows that he can't beat Sonic. As for Penders, I did enjoy his exploration into darker themes and plots, but he crossed a line line with what he tried to do with Geoffrey and Sally (the skunk was an adult and she was a minor). I also had to roll my eyes at his anti gun propaganda through out the series.
I think there are some justified critiques of Ian and IDW, but at the same time a decent amount of times, you see people who complain about the writing doing it with bad faith. So I see why we may sometimes raise them to too high of a pedestal, but either way, things do seem to be looking up.
When I'm in an inconsistency competition and my opponent is Amy Rose's characterization
When I'm in an inconsistency competition and my opponent is the entire Sonic Franchise
@@keiser1188 we're both cooked 💀
you're finished dawg
Meet tails and knuckles and shadow and sonic and wait...
@@platanoluverhell nah. Amy been an inconsistent character since the 2000’s. Tails, Knuckles and Shadow don’t compare. And don’t bring up any adaptation of them outside the games or IDW comics cuz they don’t count
43:08 THANK YOU
Sonic is NOT a superhero type of character, he’s just a guy who loves adventure and has a warm heart
He doesn’t follow the authority of society or those around him and he doesn’t actively try to preach to ppl about they’re wrong doing and why they need to change, he just lives life his own way and does what he thinks is right
He puts an end to Eggman’s plans because he has fun doing it and it restricts his freedom
Sonic is a brand, and by extension he's whatever Sega wants him to be, if Sega wants him to be a superhero character, he will be a superhero character, whether we like it or not we are owed to nothing and shouldn't act like it
@@cannonbyrd1755 Even Mario has a particular personality Nintendo wants him to stick to whether it be the standard non story centric games or the RPG games. Sonic is the same way and his Japanese voice actor has always portrayed sonic in a particular free spirited nature. This was emphasized in all Japanese sonic media up to Black Knight. Black Knight is still considered some of people's favorite writing for Sonic
Agreed, he is a roguish hero, not a boyscout. I assume you were also annoyed at his lectures at Surge and his weird sudden copification with Clutch in 75 wanting to "turn him in" and make him apologize, and then feel bad he was taken away by Eggman? Sonic he literally just tried to murder a whole city after being caught for fraud, kidnapping, coercion, theft, racketeering, and all the other lovely mob related crimes presumably on the thumb drive the Chaotix found. Give me a break.
@@cannonbyrd1755 yeah no. Sonic in the games is depicted for the most part how the first comment described him. Sonic even if his personality is altered or taken in a different direction will always keep certain core traits. His arrogance, love for adventure, and his free spirited nature. These are all traits that mostly remain consistent amongst Sonic in different adaptations too
Chaotic good.
I'm sick of the girlboss-ification of modern female characters. It's like companies are afraid their audience is afraid of seeing a woman act vulnerable or expressing romantic feelings for a guy who doesn't always reciprocate, like it would somehow portray her as weak when her schtick has always been that she's obsessed with Sonic.
It's like the gaming industry is overcorrecting after Metroid Other M was slammed by critics
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game).
The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
That's why I always loved Bayonetta and (ironically, given your comment) Samus. They are both badasses who know they're sexy and feminine and don't care if you hate them for it. They also never were afraid of showing more of their personalities and vulnerability (until Other M fucked Samus Over, fuck that game).
The thing I hate the most is the fact Samus and Bayonetta were marginally hated by feminists on the 2010s, when ironically they both are the most feminist characters on gaming, and Ellie and other generic girl bosses are shallow characters made to be nothing less of shallow diversity checklists
One youtuber who goes by the name pariah once said that sonic is not spiderman and amy is not nick fury in regards to ian flynn's writing. He nailed it on the spot
Dude, Pariah gets it. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but he understands what makes Sonic tick. He gets Sonic.
I have no stake in Amy but I'm so glad you mentioned Silver, as I am a little tired of him being a softboy when his original storyline in 06 was that he was basically the terminator. Yes he's a hedgehog with feelings and more expressive than Shadow, but he's still someone always carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders in a way Sonic and Shadow don't
His theme song doesn't exactly help your argument, but I see what you're saying. He came off as naive and curious since he didn't socially develop or experience things like a normal person would, but I never considered him "soft."
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT Silver's fanon/IDW interpretation goes back to the Eng localizations. Blaze said in 06's Eng script that Silver is insecure when he's alone and combined with Quinton Flynn's voice acting that pretty much made Fanon/IDW Silver a thing,
this video is actually so peak. if there was an essential sonic playlist than this should be one of the first videos to play. it incapsulates all my dislikes for the current writing, state of the fandom and more.
I wish I could like this video twice holy shoot
This is a franchise targeted to children, Sonic and Amy's dynamic is mostly played for laughs. It's also true that Sonic dislikes sadness, so if chasing him will make Amy happy then Sonic will (sometimes reluctantly) oblige.
Sonic was never targeted at children, but teens and the edgy. Look back at who he was advertised for in the 90s and the ads he appeared in. They have been trying to kiddify him and to a degree he could appeal to that, yet the edge was always there.
Sonic was always for teens. SEGA has always tried to portray the Sonic series as being for teens while (in their own words) Mario was for kids. Much of the style of Sonic is focused on that specific aspect. It's pretty apparent in the early 3D games like SA1 and SA2. It's also shown in the music typically being rock/rap that wasnt explicit and generally more positive in their message.
This is a good point to add
@blumiu2426 Sonic has been historically targeted to the same demographic group as Super Mario in Japan, which is children. The slight change in target demographics in the West was a consequence of "localization", and you could make the argument that Sega of America and Sega of Europe had a better idea seeing how the IP is a lot more successful there than in Japan.
They tried doing a balancing act with Sonic Adventure, where the general presentation is targeted to teenagers while the writing and humor are targeted to children, then they leaned more on the teenager side with Sonic Adventure 2, but then they undid it with Heroes, then went back with Shadow and 2006, then went back... it's truly very inconsistent.
@@ChaosAngelZero most 3D Sonic games are E10+, which is moreso leaning onto the teen/preteen range. Here in Europe, some sonic games like 06, black knight, rush adventure, and shadow the hedgehog were given full blown pegi 12 rating.
So I'd say Sonic definitely leans more towards preteens/early teen crowd, which are still children mind you...just not 3-6 year olds.
As much as I wanted Sega to not *exaggerate* her crush on Sonic to the point of it being a part of her personality (Hello, Sonic Free Riders) this is another extreme to how she was written. Amy’s overall character theme is about love and passion. She obviously loves Sonic, he is her hero and she has a crush on him and wants to surpass him in terms of fighting and wants to go on her own crazy adventures without repeating her mistakes from Sonic CD. Her crushing on Sonic wasn’t the problem, it was times where that aspect of her character was Flanderized like in Free Riders as well as awkward localization changes that just don’t work.
Sonic Heroes was fine. She was just joking and not being serious about and immediately in the fight she asked Sonic if he knew where Froggy and Cheese's brother was and after that she didn't bother Sonic only AFTER they found their friends and saw Sonic in the distance to go after him. It's playful.
Sonic Free Riders... I... didn't fully play because the controls were the WORST!
There is a definitely a case of the modern trend of rejecting traditionally feminine characters. Ironically the push of feminism is the embrace of masculinity when characters are concerned. Amy being girly was never the problem, you don’t to need to remove her that to improve her, because it’s a core part of her character. Instead it would be better to add an additional element, build her character out instead of removing the foundation and starting again.
I'd rather her be the fixated girlfriend than what we have. It can at least be cute and enduring and not insufferable and never something we've seen from her.
@@DMAN99 She already had more to her though. Even when concerned about Sonic when not around him, she wanted to best him in some way to be noticed, yet simultaneously had that same level of concern for others even if not romantic. The characters have never been presented that deep and sufficient. The problem is trying to probe beyond that and create scenarios that aren't the vibe the series intended. I think spinoffs are fine for that, because then the characterization one way may end up taking over.
Looks like someone didn't watch taro marshmellow's video about her! Now?
When people call Amy just female Sonic, I think that's the highest compliment you can give.
Every other character is inspired by Sonic to go through a character arc and change themselves.
Amy is the only one, other than Sonic himself, that acts as a catalyst to change others. But does it in her own way.
She herself like Sonic is relatively static. I'd argue her only real change is Sonic awakening her inciting incident to be that catalyst counter part to him.
Woah, I never realized that she changes characters just like Sonic.
Sonic Team had such a strong vision for these characters back then, man.
One would think that every fan would appreciate that vision as an adult, but no. They still hold on to that childish, unempathetic hatred of Amy Rose.
Well she was designed as his female counterpart.
From her Classic design being his if he was a girl and it continues to her modern design, just being a little more subtle about it.
But yeah. She does change others and Sonic began doing it too, especially in more recent years.
Though her character is inconsistent.
@@mrbanks456Amy hatred is rooted in sexism unironically
@@kendraroth1276 Sonic is the ideal boy (who's a hedgehog). Amy is the ideal girl (who's a hedgehog).
Man, I hope they don't mess up Amy in Sonic movie 4. They haven't let me down yet, but that's the character I'm most concerned about them adapting. What with how Hollywood absolutely sucks at writing female characters in this weird modern era.
@@johngonzalez2495 either really good or really bad. Maria was good in the movie, and I like Maddie. So we'll see.
@@johngonzalez2495 movie Amy rose saves Sonic from metal sonic and movie sonic makes heart eyes at her, they definitely are going with the bad ass Amy rose version
@@exchangediary968 like amy hasn't saved sonic before? did you not watch sonic x's the last resort??
They already ruined Sonic himself.
@ I agree that’s why I moved on to another franchise I don’t understand why so many can’t, it’s a kiddy franchise it’s fine to grow up really
This video should be obligatory viewing for any Sonic fan. I'd like to post this on the r/SonicTheHedgehog subreddit, butthe mods have an aversion to any criticism towards IDW and Ian Flynn, and I would get banned, just like I was banned from the Hedgehog Mod Manager Discord server for criticizing Ian Flynn once.
@@CanaldoZenny for criticizing him or going of in a crazy rant where you want Flynn dead ? I’m on a very big sonic server and we had to ban Flynn haters from the channel not for critiquing but for saying Flynn fans aren’t sonic fans and calling the man a fat fuck whole pretending it’s just to criticize him
Try posting it on smaller subreddits; the big ones are filled with, well, redditors.
15:57 - "If he's the wind, then she's the breeze that follows it." 🔥✍🏾
I swear it feels like these days people who are Sonic fans are so dismissive of criticism just because the writings "Better then the Meta Era". It's also just really ironic that so many people are so dismissive these days with replies like "Who Cares", when just a few games ago they were also the ones whining about the writing being so bad. The Tribalism and passes for Ian just because "He's one of the fans" is crazy.
It's stereotypical sonic fan behavior. Your so use do getting crap for so long that when you finally get something that's decent to good its like it's the second coming of Christ. Then if someone comes along with any form of criticism like "hey this game was pretty good, but I think "X" could use a little work and "y" could be better" and they'll come and eat you alove because you should shut up and be grateful. How do you expect the series to get better when your just content with "okay" and discredit criticism that will make it great. The sonic fans who do this thinks they're real sonic fans fighting for the franchise they love, but it's actually the opposite your keeping down the franchise you love and those who are giving constructive criticism care for the franchise more than you because they want it to be better and believe it can be better
The fear of corporate relapse can drive a fandom to madness, ESPECIALLY if it’s the Sonic fandom. “I don’t think Ian Flynn’s a good writer.” “What, so you want to go back to the wacky and apathetic adventures of Baldy McNosehair? Because that’s what Sega’s gonna do if you don’t keep your mouth shut!”
It's like it's a personal attack somehow when they don't fucking know him and his basis isn't even the games, it's archie?? Fucking maddening. I admit Ian's rise is inspiring but he doesn't fit the franchise
Criticism is fine but we also gotta address the people who disregard any improvements or attempts made by recent games whether it’s writing or the story and just complain endlessly
@@Abner-gu3vetrue there has to be a balance
In my personal opinion you and Pariah understand the roots of Sonic the best. Never understood why people took Amy being a "stalker" and "toxic" so seriously.
Please do not use pariah as a source, his criticism is some of the worst I've ever seen.
@@cannonbyrd1755 ?
It's a trope that doesn't click with people as well in english speaking territories. It also doesn't help that not every Amy interpretation is created equal. I think stuff like battle Amy is hilarious for how absurd it got, but for some it can feel like torture. This ends up with people who genuinely believe Amy is nothing but a nuisance with zero redeeming qualities. This isn't true obviously since Amy has more depth than people give her credit for. The issue I have with newer Amy is that it's extremely obvious they want to pivot the character into a new direction. However it was done in a messy way. One of the biggest issues I have with frontiers is that it feels too busy course correcting instead of making actually interesting interpretations of the characters. There's so many avenues you can go with Amy and instead we end up with a milquetoast version.
@@cannonbyrd1755 Of the games or of the characters..? Depends on how much I agree with you.
@@OverZeelous Pariah is EXTREMELY biased towards Shiro Maekawa and behaves as if he writes the only one true, authentic Sonic - despite Maekawa himself previously stating he rewrote Sonic's personality from the genesis games to suit his own vision. Which in a vacuum is fine, I believe Sonic works best as a Godzilla-like character that benefits from all sorts of different takes, but it's frustrating when people LIKE Pariah use his vision to bash other takes on the character.
He misrepresented and slandered US interpretations/localizations like the Archie runs, SatAM and AoStH as somehow being "disrespectful corporate cash grabs" despite many aspects of these localizations being canonized and paid tribute to even before Ian Flynn's hiring - this was so bad that this actually pissed off Ken Penders and for once it made Ken actually the most reasonable person in the room.
he also tries to pretend Sonic is this exclusively Japanese ethereal concept, despite it almost always being a joint venture between both sides of Sega and CLEARLY being inspired by western culture - to the point that Sonic's personality was originally influenced by Bill Clinton for god's sake. Also can't forget to mention his incredibly incendiary and hostile "you shouldn't care about Sonic canon and you're an idiot if you do" video that was deleted after everyone rightfully called it out for how bad it was.
tl;dr while Pariah had some good takes and videos at times, his stuff really started to feel overly cynical and at times even bad faith the further he went on up until his recent retirement from Sonic.
I think it's an issue with Western Creators having kind of a bias against static characters. There are a lot of characters who are better off remaining as "Pillars of their Ideals" that are often pushed to change on the faulty idea of "they've been the same for too long, it's time to change the status quo!" Take Superman, for example.
This is part of it, but it wraps back around to Dimitri's point about writers not understanding the character to begin with, so natural character progression is impossible because you're operating from a false premise. In writing, there are always multiple paths to take depending on the story or circumstance, but there's also doing things because you feel you can get away with it, characterization be damned.
See: the cuntification of Velma Dinkley in various projects since 2012. A lot of Dimitri's feelings echo mine in regards to that topic (and it's not necessarily tied to the idea of making her a lesbian, tho there's definitely a huge overlap in that Venn diagram). Being more cerebral and nerdy doesn't automatically make one straight or gay, and the idea that it means the latter is *personally* offensive in addition to evidence of (what I can charitably call) lack of life experience or personal interaction.
It's not just a Western thing, but it's absolutely a facet in regards to the Sonic franchise (and always has been).
@@USSMariner Yes. Yes exactly. And thank you for bringing up Velma in regards to this I feel the same way in many instances.
@@USSMarinerthe push to make Velma gay is so weird, man. Because everything people that push it list as evidence boils down to stereotypical behaviour and well, head canon. It’s even funnier because in her long history she’s always been super into dudes.
Exactly this. Mascot character of all should not be tampered with and really aren't meant to be taken seriously to such a great degree. They are what they are and stories can be told within those parameters. Look at how many manga do it. A spinoff is fine to explore, but just as that. Sonic Adventures was deep enough, but trying to make them too "real" has always seemed bizarre to me. The Western fandom has too many issues and furries are among them and why scrutiny is required.
pretty much, course, the people doing these don't understand the character at all outside a Surface Level, especially special individuals that just wanna destroy things or have inherit Agendas to 'em all out of Personal Gain or Personal Politics
I love how the core sonic friend group's (tails, knuckles, amy) character isn't defined by their relationship to sonic, but rather informed by it. Tails much like amy is inspired by the guy, he looks up to him and admires him so heavily he sometimes loses track of his own capabilities. but you know who doesn't? sonic. sonic is well aware that tails is incredibly capable and dependable, and is willing to put his faith in him at the drop of a hat " slot this fake emerald in to stop the cannon? you got it!" knuckles is rigid, he's bound by his duty to the master emerald, and because of this he contrasts and clashes with sonic's free spirit from time to time, but they both obviously have respect for each other even if they don't always see eye to eye and are willing to take jabs. sonic's core friends like sonic for a lot of the reasons fans come to like him, and as such that makes them relatable, just like how sonic likes them for equally relatable reasons in turn. it makes them reasonably come off as actual friends... or at least it did, and I miss it.
@@tvgg1 In the movies at least Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are literal brothers, which I always saw those three like that.
A western writer fundamentally misunderstanding japanese characterization?
What's next? Wet water?
I kinda want to apply this to Dragon Ball with Goku's characterization as I feel like a good portion of the American fan base doesn't really understand Goku's personality or why he acts the way he does. I do somewhat blame it on the English dub
@@crestofhonor2349 somewhat? Is completely the dub fall, people act like people growing up with a complete dif character and react surprise when the character change, in there eye, create a lot conflict.
@@crestofhonor2349 YES!
Very much the same issue. And for largely the same reasons too.
The "fish out of water" that constantly seeks adventure turned dumb, tough guy.
Though i also blame the popularity of "DBZ Abridged" as well.
That did quite a lot of "reputation damage"
Can you elaborate on what you mean
@@MaverickHunterXZA Abridged goku is more faithful to the japanese goku then dub goku lol they actively make fun of dub goku in abridged.
''The Sonic fandom cares a hell of a lot more about the fandom part than the actual content'' This is exactly what has made me tune out from the online discourse, it has been stuck in stagnating limbo for nearly two decades and the fanbase is only keeping alive a caricature of it built on headcanons, fanfics, fandubs (Snapcube did irreparable damage to this franchise) and other outside sources. Sonic now feels like a meme entity rather than a true character, where people will spend more time uttering references to that one funny video they saw to show they're hip than ever enjoying the actual content the series provide. How many times have I heard people talk about Shadow Gens (an actual good game for once, I'll give Sega that) compared to the number of people talking about Shadow's love for latinas? Or that one time I was having an actual discussion about Shadow 05 only to have someone interrupt it with a ''Hey Shadow it's me the devil'' and I get made the bad guy for calling out how unnecessary that is (''we're just having fun'' they'll say every time)? A joke is the only way I can describe the fandom, in all senses of the term. Nothing is serious yet it is the most serious thing in their lives, for any form of pushback is a threat to their existence. You nailed it perfectly, this series is just a brand now. Nothing more.
Also wow, I haven't checked IDW in years but I had no idea the western lack of professionalism had settled there too. Can't say that helps the fans when the official people are also unhinged and validates their worldview.
@@MegaGlassguy At least I’m not alone in being tired of all of the dumb Snapcube references. It’s been so overdone and overused, it’s just annoying now and they’re not funny anymore. I’m not someone who’s big on Snapcube’s style of humor and I just find it to be quirky, trendy, Gen Z cringe humor and whatnot now. You can’t go a second without this fanbase quoting Snapcube or some other dumb trendy, quirky quote.
Hot take: It has always been a brand. All IP are brands. Let people enjoy them how they please.
Something similar happens with JoJo's Bizzare Adventure. You have the surface level "IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE?!?!?!?!" type of fans, and the people who go more in depth and have some semblance of mental stability. Very common occurrence in many fandoms.
I always get annoyed at Snapcube references
Also one time Snapcube tried to cause political controversy just because Tom Wachowski is a policeman in the Sonic movie which she tried framing it as “supporting police brutality” when Tom being part of the police is just a part of his character
@@TheKing-uu7jn
Funny you mention that, cuz I sometime see a lot of Sonic fans on Twitter just being really mad or skeptical at the fact that Tom’s a cops who Sonic likes (or simply not portrayed in a bad light, in the movies
For some reasons
Even tho, I feel like apart from the first movie, it’s not even like a defining part of his character (could be wrong, being a long time since I saw Sonic Movie 1 and 2)
It literally confuses me how not even a few years ago, everyone was mocking and memeing on Pontaff’s writing and no one batted an eye, but when someone makes even the SLIGHTEST joke at the expense of Ian’s writing, it’s all-out war, and anyone who does make fun of his writing has to make it clear they don’t hate him as a person, it makes no damn sense
he used to write for archie , that's why
he was inconstant but not terrible
It's like it is said in the video. The [BRAND] is more important and anyone remotely around it. It reminds me when a semi-popular sonic fan named "PSY-GUY" was ousted as a scumbag and many people just defended him just because he was popular.
@ Who the hell is that?
@ Someone who never finished anything and still managed some fan group.
@ HOW?!
I have noticed this pattern recently of twitter people only being able to tolerate relatioships if it's the most safe, boring thing ever, no interesting dynamics no unorthodox interactions, just two people being extremely blunt about how in love they are to each other in the most bland couply couple way possible, to the point that they don't even feel like themselves when they are together just the example of what a happy couple should look like, except the gays of course they are allowed to be messy and chaotic because they're just so quirky you guys.
Tends to happen when men are labelled as abusive or wimps whenever they do anything in a relationship, and women drag each other through the mud whenever they focus on their relationship.
Sounds like autistic people are mad that irl relationships require learning and understanding people and not everything will be spelled out to you. And if they are it has to be some important statement on how a healthy relationship is suppose to be or how love is love when in reality it really does come off as people who don’t understand human interactions without cartoon animals doing dbz fights and crying about feeling inadequate
Yeah I’ve noticed that too. You get these guys who either can’t read to save their life unless the character looks directly at the camera and states in plain English what they want or you get the ones who treat vague dialogue as full confirmation of their own headcanons like “SHE SAID SHE CARES ABOUT HER, THAT MEANS THEYRE LESBIANS” platonic relationships don’t exist to people like that.
A lot of terminally online people who never had a relationship and have been gaslit by the 2010's way of writing in movies and TV shows, and the reaction to the Me Too movement that made people think any form of romantic relationship is toxic and wrong and everyone should be self-sufficient. Mix with lack of media literacy and you get these emotionally stunted folks who are averse of any kind of romance - unless it for some minority character they can fetishize.
I truly fear how Amy will be written in the Sonic 4 movie, because I think Knuckles and Shadow were given proper respect, but Amy will not escape the girl boss trope Hollywood has been trying to push for a while.
@@CanaldoZenny I've been tempted to write a fanfic since seeing the movie because of this fear.
I know Amy has a power now according to the ending of the movie, which will make her a bit different, but I wanna keep her crush on Sonic, her liking shopping and playing games, her being silly and fun, and her being compassionate. I also want to have scenes where she needs help.
It’s crazy to me that people ever got the idea of Amy being a damsel in distress when she’s running around with a giant hammer like it’s nothing. How is a character like that ever just someone always needing to be saved because they’re weak?
SA1 she was at the start, but even though she fights back with her Hammer and in the end takes down E-100 Zero by herself. Then SA2 she wasn't playable, but she was caught by Eggman at gun point. However before that Amy got onto Prison Island by herself, got the card key and free Sonic, even mentioned to help Shadow remember Maria's real promise and helped save the world in her own way.
Sadly, a lot of people seem to forget this and focus solely on her crush and her not "doing much" as SEGA and Sonic Team listened to the outcry of "Sonic has too many friends" so Sonic is only playable.
Honestly, I think Sonic Advance has the best Amy gameplay in the series and that's due to her technical moveset where if you use her hammer you can finish the stage faster than Sonic.
It’s because she has spent a non-zero amount of time being kidnapped or otherwise incapacitated throughout the series, because Lord forbid a girl needs help sometimes.
she was only a damsel in distress in one game, that being sonic cd. even then, sonic cd's interpretation of amy isnt the well known one, its the heroes interpretation.
Yes.
A toy hammer, look it up on Google. That's what a Biko Biko Hammer is.
Because she had to be rescued, or at least needed help, in CD, Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, Riders and Zero Gravity. Nevermind the fact that Amy had her growth in the Adventure games, accomplishing many things, and was playable in other games like Heroes and the Advance series where she shines. Nope, she was always either an annoying Sonic crusher or a damsel.
I didn't like Amy in the 2000s, so I'm partially guilty on this, but in my opinion what needed change was writing her crush a bit better, not downright killing it.
The worst part about all this is that even if Sonic Team goes on to create Sonic games with brilliant gameplay and fun level design, we'll STILL have to worry about the writers ruining all the characters and adding their politics in the stories.
@@August_Dust ‘politics’ oh that’s a red flag , let me guess you’re anti woke
@@exchangediary968
I just miss the old Sonic.
@ I do too but it’s dangerous when we’re implying certain writers have political
Agendas because that is the same talk from idiots who get triggered when gay and black characters exist
@exchangediary968 well... he has a point. This is something you can confirm by yourself looking at the surface of ANY Sonic writer/artist's social media accounts, you can see their political alignment.
Lgbt stuff, allies and safespaces (I SAW a post of Gigi saying her twitter account was a safespace for her "lgbt fans")... left leaning things...
And I mean, it's okay to have your own opinions and stuff, but PLEASE, those guys aren't fans anymore... they're WORKERS, they can't just shoehorn their political views onto an established FRANCHISE!
No wonder Archie Sonic is no more... too many weird things happening, no canon Sonic characterization...
I don't necessarily see how the addition of certain things like Tangle and Whisper becoming a couple can be interpreted as political and needing to be avoided. It's no different than if Knuckles and Rouge finally became an item (but society sucks so certain people would make a big deal out of it).
It's definitely some food for thought. It really seems that modern writers have a very shallow idea on what makes a character powerful, where Amy being able to completely shift the tides of several conflicts through her high emotional intelligence and got both sides to feel empathy for each other, and the courage to tag along and adventure alongside Sonic and friends even if she doesn't have any comparable power. But nah that's girly crap, she needs a literal magic superpower that lets her be physically as strong as everyone else because, of course, what does your talk-no-jutsu mean if you can't also punch a hole in their chest if it doesn't work? Not everyone needs to be a combatant in order to be "strong" character.
But I like big hammer go smash
@@irkendragonsame, I like when big hammer go smash and badniks go boom
But why are males always the combatants?
@@irkendragon this is my favorite take on the topic. if all else fails, big hammer go smash
I will say something that will get me crucified by hoth Star Wars and Sonic Twitter, but I don't care.
Ian is the Filoni of Sonic. A dude everyone initially believed to be the savior of the franchise, that can come up with new ideas and move it forward, but soon everyone will realize he is hack that just wants to write official fanfics about his OCs
I... You're so dumb holy shit. He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written and he's not even the only writer. Get over yourself
@@SillyTron_ this shit has been debunked multiple times stop spamming this
Pretty accurate ngl
@tiolloyd9555 Never getting over the retcon that the Clones needed some secret anti-Jedi tech installed in them to make them kill Jedi.
@galten7361 the worst part is that I can kinda see a version of the inhibitor chips working, where instead of it activating with every clone and we assuming they were all blindly loyal to their jedi generals, the inhibitor chip activated had the clone refused to follow Order 66.
It would honestly add the tragedy to the clones while also making them more nuanced and realistic, because the clones who wouldn't follow the orders would become brainwashed, meaning they never truly had a choice. But fuck nuance, all the clones where good guys who loved their jedis
The push towards mass appeal by turning a beloved character into a brand, writers who don't value or respect the source material, toxic positivity in the fandom, dismissing valid criticism by labeling it as hatred or bullying...
That's not even a Sonic problem; it seems to be everywhere. It's frustrating.
Man I'm reminded of some of the Team Fortress 2 arguments even before a TH-camr brought it up to the public (basically the game was filled with idle/trading bots even before the sniping bots were invading). It scares me because I view it as someone who views the brand as their identity. It's not just a fun hobby anymore, it's their personality. I feel like this is why I've been cutting ties from Fandoms bit by bit.
Alright look, I know you are trying your best to avoid saying it without offending half the fanbase, but we all know the glaring problem and pattern you are pointing out. This delusional defense of Ian's writing isn't out of nowhere.... we can't avoid the elephant in the room any longer. Let's spill the beans here. It's mostly just *American Sonic fans* ... and mostly them, putting their own bizarre unwittingly spin in a franchise that is inherently japanese.
Lets face the reality. Absolutely ZERO Asain fans have any problems with Amy and feminine characters. Like no complaints at all. It's the Americans. It always have been the Americans stirring up stuff and infesting their polical world views into things(not you guys you're based bou know what I mean)
Ian is an American writer, thus he pushes everything you see that just... don't fit in a franchise inherently japanese. You got people defending him to death because he's a good writer, which he is, but his appeal is only to an American lense to cause "subversion" to tropes (yeah annoying word i know) ....and as you see... it just doesn't work.
And Sega is facing this paradox now. On one hand, they owe it to the Americans for saving their franchise since it wasn't really popular in Japan during it's conception, but on the other, that same issue doesn't exist anymore as now Japan starts to like Sonic again and Japan is where Sonic is conceived.
Man.... what a dilemma this is. This franchise is going through and existential crisis. An American identity, vs a japanese one.
As an american sonic fan, this rings very true, especially now with the Gens rewrite, we tend to over analyze these characters when the “answers” we were looking for were standing right in our faces, a static character is not a bad one, it’s meant to symbolize something we can look up to, a shoulder for other characters like Elise or Chip to lean on when times are tough.
They’re an ideal we should try to live up to in order to better ourselves, not stay in terminally online discourse about a blue hedgehog saying the wrong thing or sounding the wrong way.
I’d like to say we had it better back then…but I might end up repeating myself another ten years from now.
Any actual citations or is this just another way of fetishing asian people? The fact that you even admitted that america saved sonic shows how sonic being ""fundumentally japanese"" is asinine.
As an American fan, They're easily the worst when it comes to Japanese properties. Always want to change it to fit their "westerm" sensibilities, which is nothing but marxist brain rot. Had to distance myself from multiple fandoms because of these tourists.
@@Ianadaya I argue we do have Western characters who show how we're supposed to live or how the world is supposed to work they're just ones like Rick Sanchez.
3:12 having trauma flashbacks to people saying "It's not Gamefreak's fault. It's The Pokémon Company's fault" in 2019.
But… isn’t Game Freak A PART of the Pokémon Company?
@RefreshingMirage Nope. It owns significant portion of the Pokémon company a third assuming an even split between them Creatures and Nintendo.
The Pokemon Company is three distinct parts; Creatures INC, GameFreak and Nintendo
@@alphamarigiGotcha, thanks
Now we just need the Sonic version of "Game footage not final"
Kinda funny in removing all of her "negative" traits to make Amy better you just end up making her Girl Sonic. Which was Blaze…Ian has literally one female character he makes and it’s just Blaze.
Tangle is Gray Blaze, Surge is Green Blaze, Amy is now Pink Blaze.
And he was on record wanting to fuse the Sol dimension to Sonic's world so that he could use Blaze whenever he wants. The guy has an obsession with her and it's glaringly obvious.
Whisper is brown blaze.
She was unique at first then her Tangle arc came.
Also Blaze has a duty as a princess and guardian of the sol emeralds. Just make a way for her and Silver to travel between worlds easier.
Speaking of Surge, she's not really Blaze-like. She had potential to be unique and cool but became pathetic. He didn't know how to end her arc.
@@MegaGlassguy it’s incredibly obvious he wants Blaze as a Sally 2.0 or quite literally girl Sonic as a main character.
Chalk it up with IDW Sliver being made a OwO soft boi and the constant crying every issue, Ian is obsessed with recreating the worst of Archie.
@@captkate-yz8kd surge is a Blaze. Ian mischaracterizes everyone. So of course Blaze is included, in Ian’s mind she’s girl Sonic, she can fight, she’s seen as non problematic unlike rouge or Pre IDW Amy.
So of course Surge is written to be girl Sonic as well, boiled down to the most check listed attributes because that’s all Ian sees in Blaze, and every other not Blaze, just girl Sonic.
@Graymanlegend Tbf Surge is an evil clone. She has a unique goal too. But I can see what you're saying. He's reducing too many characters to one stereotype, which makes it hard to enjoy Surge. I just see her as too much of a loser to make a cool villain arc, and I don't like her clothing design. I just hope he doesn't redeem her.
Also, Amy and Blaze could always fight (except Amy in CD). They were just unique. Rouge could too.
Speaking of him reducing Sonamy, Knuckles and Rouge had one moment in IDW while two new characters get their ship pushed to no end. Even though Knuckles and Rouge had actual good development in the games and are a beloved ship.
Why is the damsel in distress trope hated? like genuinely why is it seen as negative by a lot of people
Something about women not being trophies to be won (because clearly the only reason a man would save them is to get laid and not because it's the right thing to do) and being strong and independent or something.
Not only that she was only really one in her very first appearance lmao.
It's a trope lends itself to flattening a female character's agency, by functionally turning into something akin to a mcguffin. It's not inherently the case, but it's historically and overwhelmingly the case, and it's not random but a natural expression of gendered expectations and assymetric focus.
mostly modern western feminism and a little bit of "overused"
Exactly
Even as a simple casual Sonic enjoyer I have noticed a lot how there is a push by western writers in making sure Amy becomes a girl boss, even slowly getting rid of her more loving and caring nature. What is funny is that you don't even need to delete her love for Sonic to show what she can do. In other media it has been seen.
Tbh I’d say Amy still has her caring nature, instead they got rid of her bright and energetic nature
Nowadays she feels like a group mom
@lemon5000-tj6nvwhile I don’t really have a problem with Amy, that part I agree with
The group mom thing
It’s not even out of some kind of ideological righting of wrongs this sort of thing with Amy’s character has been complained about for years now so I can COMPLETELY understand why some want to defend this iteration of the character under the notion of “We don’t want to go back to Sonic Heroes writing of her do we?”
@@dariusbrown7870 Sonic fans are too attached to the 4Kids era that they don't even remember that Amy spent each of those games screaming Sonic's name or flipping out when other characters weren't fans.
I noticed, always disliked Amy because of how she was in Sonix X, and Sonic Heroes.
Glad someone else is tackiling this topic. A video posted a month ago by BigDripMike titled "The DAMAGED Characterization of Sonic the Hedgehog" similary talked about issues with Ian's writing. Both yours and his video really brought to life stuff I've been thinking and picked up on for a min and glad to see that theres a bunch of people who see the problem with Ian Flynns writing.
I never knew Ian Flynn and the Sonic IDW staff were like that until I saw this video. Now I'm questioning my loyalty to the comics after that.
Actually sitting down and reading these comics for yourself, instead of just listening to Adrenaline Dubs or the Game Apologist makes you aware of the glaring issues of these comics. Those videos over hype how good these comics really are. I tried to get into IDW Sonic multiple times, but I always gave up after 3 issues due to how boring they are. Also, IDW's Sonic is easily my most hated version of the character, far more than Prime Sonic and Underground Sonic.
Stuff like this makes me appreciate Movie Sonic more, despite also being different from Game Sonic. At least Movie Sonic has a clear character arc in all the movies, and he knows when it is time to drop the jokes and get serious. Also, he learns from his mistakes. IDW Sonic is badly written I honestly think it is character assassination, and Ian Flynn wanted Sonic to be the villain of the story.
@@CanaldoZenny Honestly you're far more vigilant than me, I constantly watch things and somehow miss alot of flaws and issues with it, even with me looking at the physical copies of the comics I still didn't notice the issues at first glance (probably because I'm not too familiar with how the characters are actually supposed to be characterised with the many takes on it.) But this video was a real eye-opener to me and helped me realise why I prefer the older amy than the new one.
it always has been a open secret the problem always has been that not only ian is more protected by fans but that when this things are called out people dissmis it as "le stupid rigthwing"
@@mechakirby9576 It's really exhausting how obsessed people are with politics, just let people voice their concerns about the writing without calling them "bigotted', or "insensitive". I honestly don't know if they're actually stupid or doing it on purpose so they can defend their echo chamber.
@@CanaldoZenny Actually the Heroes arc and the Metal Virus arc are pretty fun. Just skip the issue where Tangle sacrifices herself just so they could have Whisper throw a tantrum.
After that the series goes downhill fast. I had to stop watching after Surge's second anticlimactic arc. Such a shame they didn't use that potential well.
As much as I highly dislike Amy Rose as a character and the Sonic-Amy dynamic (both pre and post meta-era btw), I have to agree with everything said throughout this video. I don't like the fact that Mr. Flynn is trying to turn SegaSonic's universe into Archie Sonic. As someone who's been a fan of this franchise since I was a toddler, I don't like the fact that a lot of the female character's femininity is being erased like this. The comment Ian made about Cream being "just a kid" rubs me the wrong way cause she's more than just a little girl. She's a normal girl who lives in a world where fighting is inevitable and grows to appreciate that while still being her kind self. This is especially shown in Sonic Battle and that one Cream-focused arc from Sonic X that correlated with the game.
Again, I hate Amy Rose, but the good things she did throughout the series were because of the foundation of her being a relatively normal girl who just wants to do the right thing. She was willing to help a baby bird find its family while everyone else was too busy focusing on the big bad. She then inspired E-102 gamma through her feminine/child-like kindness and compassion to go out and do good in the world by saving his fellow robots (and becoming one of the best characters in the series imo). We also can't forget about the fact that she changed the perspectives of Shadow & Silver. With Shadow, she convinced him that people are worth protecting despite the sins of humanity and did a similar stunt with Silver when saving Sonic from getting beaten up by him. Amy's best traits were never "girl-boss" qualities that involved her being physically strong, it was her desire to just be a good friend. She was always someone who helped with the crisis by just being herself, and that is inspiring.
I don't like Amy Rose, but I appreciate and even love some of the good things she did for stories she was featured in pre-2010s. Sure, I have the unpopular (or somewhat popular? idk) opinion that her "love" more like obsession for Sonic annoys the hell out of me, but she at least felt like a character with great traits like the rest of the Sonic cast. After Sonic Lost World, she because boring, uninspiring, and just...."strong girl" who happens to be mature now with no character development. The best characters I can compare to her have to be Captain Marvel and Rey from Star Wars. Those two are so perfect that they barely have any flaws or substance that makes them interesting. They're just there to be the stereotypical strong girl instead of actual characters.
Amy has a dedicated fanbase and I feel sorry for them cause I understand the feeling of seeing your favorite character become a blank shell of their former selves. Sonic is my favorite character and I'm tired of seeing huge chunks of Movie Sonic, Archie Sonic, and Spiderman's characters being forced into him....especially in Frontiers and IDW...ew. Shadow is better than the edgefest he was during the Meta era, but I still feel salty that he's not as close with everyone as he should be, especially after the character arc he went through in Sonic 06.
Idk how to end this...uh just learn how these characters should act please TvT
@bunnibunsanrio Shadow's arc in the Adventure Era wasn't about him seeing that mankind is great actually and needs to be protected. It was him finding something to live for beyond being a tool and understanding himself. Circa Forces Shadow doesn't care for mankind at all.
Shadow's overall characterization in the game canon post-06 hasn't changed accounting for localization differences. They just stopped including him in anything where he's actually a protagonist after 06 until New Generations and otherwise turned down his spotlight thanks to the backlash against the Adventure Era that was cemented circa the 2010s.
I'm all for preventing Amy from being flanderized into a character who loves Sonic and nothing else. I don't recall that ever being an issue in the past though. Many of my favorite Amy scenes don't involve Sonic at all, especially ones from Sonic X.
Thank you so much for making this video. For years I have dealt with so much crap from blind fanboys of Ian Flynn, and any little criticism I've given of how he views or chooses to handle the characters ALWAYS leads to angry hate mobs who don't even know what they're defending or why. This isn't just a smoking gun for how he's gotten Amy and others so wrong, but also how straight-up malicious and egotistical he is with his own headcanons. Thanks to this I can confidently say he is terrible for the series and does NOT care for the franchise as it is. No writer should ever have the ego to morph an established IP into their wildly differing preferences that exist only to please themselves.
the censorship and defeminization of characters isn't unique, but it is unique that the japanese scripts refuse to buckle under the changes (even if they still censored my girl rouge). we can only hope things shift back in the right direction and twitter crazies all lose their jobs as game writers. please.
if you wanna enact some change, i am dead serious, try to send a polite message to the japanese branches of the companies this happens to.
I'd be down for that. I find many chronically online people are in too deep on things like this. People need to take the Internet less seriously.
36:09 No wonder some of the female OC’s in the comics rubbed me the wrong way. Nearly all of them are cut from the same cloth; badass girls that kick butt. They even took Lanolin the Sheep, who started off as a cute little feminine sheep gal and turned her into a no-nonsense army woman. The latter has been received poorly so far because of her attitude. At least that’s finally getting some closure. But, at this point, Amy Cream and Vanilla are the only females who remain their feminine, bubbly selves. I guess Jewel might count, too, but she’s no Amy.
I personally like Tangle and Whisper and i do think they still embody feminine traits, just not the same ones as Amy or Rouge. Tangle is a thrill seeker similar to Sonic, a total adrenaline junkie, but she is also clumsy and has a very goofy, bubbly personality, and can get quite emotional. Whisper is soft spoken and has a motherly relationship with her Wisp friends, who is the last thing she had after her team was killed, and is probably one of the more kind characters in the comic, as a sniper she embodies a support role which is often attributed as feminine (shes also a not so subtle reference to Quiet from Metal Gear).
As for Lanolin, it's a shame because she did actually have a good thing going in the Eggperial City arc. Character development and team building with Whisp/tangle, but Stanley decided to throw that out the window for le drama with the thing with Silver and Mimic. She herself is a mother hen kinda like Sally in Archie, having more leader traits after Sonic inspired her to become stronger. She is definitely thrown too far in one direction and it definitely annoyed me they went that direction with the Mimic plot at all. Left a mark on her character.
@@Fractorification Jewel the Beetle and Belle the Tinkerer exist and they don’t kick ass whatsoever, they never fight while Belle just has one defense mechanism
Why are you fuckers so against women being able to handle themselves? Do you want them to be useless or something?
Last I checked Jewel is Office Worker, not like a badass one no she's just an Office Worker
Honestly refreshing
@@TechBlade9000 Belle is also not much of a fighter too
She can only do that kick thing with her tail but other than that she’s only capable at fixing stuff like Tails
@@ORLY911 okay, fair enough. They aren’t as traditionally feminine as the vanilla girls. However, as pointed out in the video, it’s very telling how out of the most prominent OC girls in the comic, Ian and co’s first thought was to make them fighters. I also know we have Jewel and Bell, whom I like mind you, but because they’re not the badass girls/lesbian the writer are biased for, they don’t have nowhere near the same amount of screen time in the comic. Tangle and Whisper even got their own miniseries as soon as they were introduced before people even decided if they liked them or not.
It seems pretty clear that the writers are playing favorites based on the traits the video described rather than the feminine traits they might posses. To put into perspective, I loathe most of Whisper’s dramatic stories, and the ones that I find myself enjoying are the ones when she’s happy, having fun or being a goober. But those moments are sadly rare just to make way for more Mimic drama. That’s just the type of stories they find appropriate for them.
Ian doesn't like girls being feminine anymore, it's obvious with how he does his female characters.
Amy has always been a girly girl who has monster strength when it comes to protecting her friend. She'll go big sister mode or mother mode if it's needed. What he's trying to do is make amy Princess sally which I find annoying because AMY ISN'T SALLY.
I swear if they remake sonic adventure they better not let Ian write her
To all current sonic fans who love the hedgehog like I do, this video isn’t a blind attack on your favorite writer, it’s a critique worth at least considering.
You may appreciate what new changes have come to the story of sonic, maybe even more than ever, and that’s awesome, opinions and all that, but look…
If you’ve ever felt like your view of the sonic world has been shunned for the past decade or so (2010’s), thennnn yeah…we were right there with you. So it’s understandable that we all welcomed Ian with open arms at first, but don’t stop there.
As already discussed in this video that you DIDN’T skip to hate comment on…Ian has demonstrated a capacity to know about and (re)write sonic lore, but *please* don’t tell me that he outright “understands” it, he is SO quick to throw out anything that was fundamental to sonic’s world and characters just to show and tell his favored depiction of this blue hedgehog, both you and Ian share striking similarities on that front.
Sonic didn’t really need a fixing in the 2000’s, just better management decisions and less crunch, Sonic was already well defined up til Free Riders.
We’ll never have ANY grounds to harass people over their opinion on Sonic, so don’t you DARE think you can do the same to us when we share our grievances with the series’ current direction.
Feel free to still yell at me though if you wanna get that off your chest, stay sane out there.
"I'm not woke. I don't even care what woke is."
Sounds like you do there buddy. Sounds like you do.
@@ReSoule No yeah that was a flub on my part, was half asleep typing that, thx for the callout!
@Ianadaya that's fair. This video is pretty bad anyways.
okay so then why did he call every frontiers fan a slopeater in his frontiers video? or how he calls out people for using sonic as a symbol for oppression or using him for comfort in the LGBTQ+ community? and you act like dimitri is someone that deserves the defense
that's not to mention all the stuff people found out about him recently
@@ReSoule No examples. You in general is invalid.
Can't wait for everyone to label this video an anti-woke Ian Flynn hitpiece without watching it. Very interesting how you can shit on Pontac and Graff or treat Ken Penders like the Anti-Christ of the series just fine but saying Ian's comic book writing is too far.
Hope this series will recover from this strange western-captured state it's in eventually but don't see it happening soon. I liked the movies as their own separate take but I can easily see them learning the wrong lesson and attempting to turn game Sonic into Movie Sonic in a similar way to Ian turning game Sonic into Archie Sonic and us ending up with some freak combination of Archie and Movie.
Fucker what Ian isn’t turning sonic into Archie sonic how the hell did you come to that conclusion
I agree. I love Archie sonic but game sonic isn't Archie sonic. I don't like how they messed up the entire thing making it feel so confusing with the variations of the character. I like all sonics but I don't wish to change anything about them. Let game sonic be game sonic
@@Karessertin103 Yea, and worth noting Archie sonic is an extension of SATAM Sonic, which existed in a period where there wasnt nearly as much game related lore to the characters traits, so they had to make up their own thing. It is a perfectly valid interpretation of the character, but it doesn't gel with what game Sonic is, who is established very cleanly in Adventure going a specific direction of being a free spirit, roguish hero rather than the as stated by the video, boyscout of Archie and Flynn's characterization.
If the trend keeps going, someone else will come write Sonic, make some improvements but still lack somewhere else, and we'll be finally allowed (and incentivized) to shit on Flynn and co. Rinse and repeat.
@TheShmish. Doubt the movies will impact how the games are beyond stuff like including skins/costumes from their universe or Eggman dancing around with Sage.
Typical Dimitri
Making an hour long about amy
It's so funny how Western Sonic staff who are lauded for not putting Archie-tier stories in the comics actually all just want to make gay teenybopper drama plots and the only thing stopping them from making IDW Archie again is SEGA lol.
Accurate in a million levels.
Also people forget Ian Flynn slipped in what I assume to be a lesbo fetish between Sally Acorn and Nicole after the first crossover with Mega Man
@arcticarduino Eggman alone in the Metal Virus arc is written as close as he can to how Flynn wrote him in Archie while still trying to be how Flynn sees the game version of the character (an incapable villain who never "plans ahead" and is easily outdone by "real" villains like Zavok).
5:26 This "Will they, won't they" is very interesting not just for Amy...
...Because I can certainly recall THAT HANDHOLDING within issue #63 of IDW between Blaze & Sonic as two hanging out just for fun without it feeling forced, a hidden crush...
...THAT was a carrot on a stick, a tease of something that will never get anywhere since Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure turning 20-18 years on November of 2025, the whole story of appreciating the world around you & being able to ask others for help without sacrificing your responsibilities.... In one specific way, Sonic showing Blaze freedom before Elise was even a thing.
*...A tease with no resolve, a maze with no prize. Why include it?*
Edit: I like Sonaze on a personal level not purely because she can kick in heels (certainly a thing), but MOSTLY because she's a ballerina *fiery* witch from another dimension, she didn't have too much friends, she was the only one trusted with responsibility of protecting her home in dire situation + an completely alien to her environment...
Ironically, It was SONIC, who takes the pro-active role of Amy, he wanted what he does best, show her she can rely on others, he only fought her AFTER trying to convince her to work together...
In comics, HE wanted to show her the beauty of Spagonia, HE enjoyed his time fighting and dodging dangers with Blaze. HE WANTED HER TO ENJOY HER VACATION OR LIFE.
She brought elegance & getting the job done, He brought style and doing things the flashy way! **It's all about Blaze opening up to realize her true self, in a way that even Bayonetta would be proud**
I don't have problem with Sonamy, I might as well accept Sonaze will never happen, but what Sega was trying to do all those years prior with Sonic Rush only to demolish her character in Sonic '06? Then releasing Sonic Rush Adventure to fix their mistakes? Then doing absolutely nothing?
Amy is the *Heart* of the team, Blaze is the *So(u)l* of the Team
Sonic works best with both of them, because neither of these two gals don't want to change Sonic, but to accept him as he is... just running along with him
_If Ian Flynn wants Boom Amy back, then let him greenlight Sonic Boom Season 3 and see what he does with her..._
Because they know people will clip those panels and post on social media for clicks. This is what this comic has become, it is baiting for clicks.
To be fair, the ending of Sonic Rush had some romantic implications with the way Sonic and Blaze were animated. I do believe Blaze is Sonic's "soulmate", because they compliment each so perfectly, yet they can never be with each other because they exist in separate worlds - this Sonic remaining free.
But I think Amy is the perfect partner for Sonic, because she confronts Sonic instead of keeping him in his comfort zone.
@CanaldoZenny Both are confrontational but can't argue with tastes, you do you
It's like that meme...
"LEAVE ME ALONE"
**Sonaze**
"Ahh"
**Sonaze**
*_*AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH*_*
@@CanaldoZenny Blaze is the anti-Sonic. Amy is the ideal girl to Sonic's ideal boy.
If this video gets big, I wish you luck because the discourse is going to be ugly.
Out of context clips about the comic staff and people using sonic characters as their mouth pieces might spread like wildfire
Oh the gay stuff is going to be a bloodbath
@@platanoluver Its true though and people need to admit many written queer relationships are poor caricatures of relationships or outright wish fulfillment. Im speaking as someone who like Tangle and Whisper as a ship, but I also am in favor of not pressing it into the comics, because the series is not about that and I feel it would flanderize the heck out of both of them.
@@ORLY911It's pretty funny how much relationship drama there is in the comic side of the franchise. I like Archie as a different interpretation, but damn does it feel like a teen drama at points. I fully understand why Sega effectively went no more relationships. So it's a ballsy move to try to push the envelope like that, but it comes off as tumblr writing with how much they want it to be real or saying characters secretly have a relationship. Kind of a weird contrast to the games where only few characters have relationships and it's due to aspects of Sonic bringing out the feelings in them.
@@platanoluver oh if only you knew just how bad it was outside of the gay stuff...
You know this is something i have noticing . People are being blinded by the “ Good” That not one can criticize anything. If there is an issue or if you say something about a certain character you get a backlash.
These writers are making more issues and many people in fan base is making it worse by defending them when you criticize their work,I’m a not hating these guys. However, looking at what you discussed it is way worse than I thought.
Like , people are hype for the good things that came out last year. However , it does not change the situation we are in.
The stuff that made this series special may not happen as much.
I’m not saying this a fan , I’m saying as a person is worried about the future.
That future is very uncertain, it has been like that for a long time.
Thanks, for a great video Dimitri
“People are being blinded by the Good that no one can criticize anything.” Yeah. It’s called Toxic Positivity. Something that has been an issue within the Sonic Fanbase as of recent.
It reminds me of the myth of Icarus, the fanbase has been to close the sun question is.
Is it going to make the fanbase and series fall into more issues.
@@Probably_CLOUDit happens a lot in fandom spaces, it’s extremely popular with the more progressive types. They infiltrate the normal fandoms because a lot of fandoms are friendly, they get in no problem but then they start finding things to complain about and because no one wants to cause issue they are allowed to keep causing trouble until they eventually succeed in pushing out the old audience and begin calling the original audience “tourists”. The guilty gear fandom is one of the best modern examples of this; a smaller, niche fighting game community that because of one game (strive) and especially one character (Bridget) suddenly became infested with genuine tourists who love to get in fights and cause disharmony.
@@DMAN99 Yup, every time. So much so some try to say Sonic was "always progressive" pointing to his hating oppression bit in a manual, while failing to understand their own politics are authoritarian, and Sonic is very much the polar opposite of that, since anyone truly embracing freedom would not be shutting down discussions and trying to oust people from fandom spaces for having different opinions.
17:12 This. This scene alone made me understand the intire dynamic of their relationship. I grew up with sonic, I hallways saw Amy running after sonic, at the time I didn't think much of it (I was a kid) but looking back on some games (not free riders her character there is horrible) it had some little details that tells the story of a girl who surpasses her limits to do what she loves.
I kind of understand when people say Amy's character is just to run after sonic, os just a stalker, but that's just looking at the surfuce of the character the 2 best exemples are the adventure games in adventure 1 she had her own story it envolved sonic but it wasn't the main focus her main mission was to reunite a family of flickies and she asked sonic to help, in adventure 2 she had a small role but she was the one who released sonic from jail * and also the one who made shadow remember his promise to Maria
if her only purpose was to run after sonic she wouldn't had made any of this possible.
Like it's said in the video (great video btw) Amy follow Sonic not just because she loves him but also because she loves the adventures she goes on with him, and Sonic he doesn't like commitment buecause he is a free spirit but when Amy doesn't follow him he gets conflicted feellings, wich means (to me at least) that he loves Amy but doesn't know how to handel it or show it so he does what he always does and "just run", and I guess i likes when Amy runs with him.
*(side note: if she really was a stalker she would never had let sonic out of jail until he really married her)
His writing is better than the pontaff ages, but not quite there
He understands and misunderstands them
two or three steps forward and one step back is still a net gain in my opinion.
@@RobbyTheRoguebetter than pontaff it's not a high bar
One thing interesting Ian does understand is Shadow’s relationship with Amy
Yet he doesn’t seem to understand Amy entirely as a character
He's good at concepts, big ambitious ideas and writing grand epic plot. But he completely misunderstands the characters themselves. It's just that it's not to Pontiac's level of misunderstanding.
The comments here are abysmal, but I want you to know, this is one of the few Sonic video essays I actually watched and enjoyed fully. You entirely summarize my issues with Ian Flynn and his interpretation of Amy, and how even within the fandom, people will warp her character to suit their own agenda, with a lot of Amy haters going from "she's annoying" -> "she's too badass".
36:09 i would like to point out that Tangle share many traits with Amy, she is energetic, optimistic, silly, brave, impulsive, adventurous and was also inspired by Sonic to be stronger (but without any romantic aspects), the biggest differences is that Tangle is less emotional mature and way more tomboyish, so Flynn essentially created a character very like Amy but without the traditionally feminine parts, it says a lot about him
Anyway great video, finally someone who understands Amy
Probably why I think Tangle wasn't necessary and don't like her too much. She only exists for Whisper. Whisper was ok until they made her all about Tangle, which ironically they were trying to avoid with Sonamy. We also already have a character with tail powers?! His name is Tails! Maybe different, but still.
Also they way they ruined Silver for haha Whisper fanboy.
I was so annoyed by people saying the issue with Whisper having a breakdown over Tangle getting the metal virus in an anticlimactic moment added for drama was so emotional they cried and completely ignored the issue where Cream called Amy her hero while Amy was struggling to be brave (one of the few good Amy moments) and how most of the Chaotix got the metal virus. Like, Whisper and Tangle's story wasn't really that tragic. It was over-dramafied after they spent ONE DAY OF ADVENTURE together. Personally the weakest during the Metal Virus arc for me, even worse than the Shadow one.
Anyways, the Chaotix are family. And Amy and Cream are like sisters. Their moments were sadder, hands down.
When I tried saying this to a friend at the time, teasing that I didn't cry over Tangle and Whisper after being told I would 500 times, that person responded annoyed.
@captkate-yz8kd genuinely Amy feel a lot less lively, because now Tangle is filling her role it sucks, Tangle also sucks as a character because all she does is being a watered down version of Amy and actually purely exist for ship bait, given how she is straight always glued to Whisper, Amy who is accused of just being a shipbait is never all the time glued with Sonic in other hand
@@Pikasurfing1 Exactly. If he wanted more Amy moments, have her spend time with Cream.
And I think Tangle should've been scrapped. Whisper could work, but she'd need some writing improvement.
Also Tangle's design is so bland. Like girl what is that outfit?! At least Whisper has a cool design. And Ian hates Amy's design?! Sure she could work with a slightly different design (not necessary), but something like a cute ponytail with a ribbon that resembles a heart or a nice sash, maybe a dress with frills (I would like this as an alternate outfit!), but not that ugly dull Boom design (Boom had really dull colors imo. Sonic Prime did colors better, even if the characterization was a little off sometimes.)
Tangle adds nothing new either. We have a speedster who loves freedom, a flying two-tailed fox inventor, a strong big fist guardian, a sweet adventurous girl with a bigger hammer, etc.
Then we have Tangle that borrows aspects from everyone else (living in a little boring village and wants adventure? Amy's first cutscene in SA1 is very similar), using tail to fight (Tails has used his tails before to hit I believe. Either way, his defining aspect is his tail), admiring Sonic's adventurous spirit that inspires her (a lot of characters, mainly Amy and Tails), being attached to someone's hip... Do I need to go on?
@@captkate-yz8kd Tangle's tangle ability was originally suposed to belong to Infinite, but since it was discarded during sonic forces development, they gave it to her, if you ask me, he would have done a far better use with it than her.
@Raincloud5137 That's actually pretty interesting.
They could've done a lot with Infinite's ability to create illusions though more than that to the fact it wouldn't be necessary. Imagine him sending someone into their worst nightmare.
Instead we get "oh no we're trapped in a weird empty void space... DOUBBBBBLLLLLLE..... BOOST!TOGETHERWECAN SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WE CAN DO-"
This video is pretty much everything that triggers those nu-Sonic fans you see all over twitter lol. I'm sure there will be tweets shit talking this video with over 60K likes.
But I'm with you. I miss Amy acting like Amy.
Honestly, my biggest gripe is the knee-jerk reaction to ANY sort of criticism.
I like the direction the series is currently going in, in fact I think the franchise as a whole is in the best spot its been in years, but that doesn't mean it can't be *much better*
That doesn't mean strange or inconsistent writting choices shouldn't be called out and that the constant callbacks aren't shallow.
Problems with the company *Persona 3 remake appears
Based, you truly get how fucked sega is right now... today onwards we are brothers
God I hope those Sega revival IPs And Virtua Fighter 6 turn out good.
What's wrong with the Persona 3 remake? I thought it was good.
@@CanaldoZenny because it should've been the definitive version of the game that everyone's been asking for for years, with all of the content from fes and p3p, but instead it's mostly just a straight remake of the og game.
you could buy fes and p3p for cheaper AND get more content.
@@CanaldoZenny mostly FES fanboys complaining that is not a copy and paste of FES
@@CanaldoZennyThe game is also censored.
well this changes how i see Amy entirely. i always thought she was weird since she was always chasing sonic and he was always running away from her, so she seemed like an obsessed fan while sonic just wanted to get away from her. i guess i never noticed he secretly liked her back.
The chase was a game between them. Of course someone like flynn wouldn't understand running for fun
So glad Sega put a stop to Ian answering "lore questions" in his bunblecast. Was real tired of his fans putting his words in there as series fact
He doesnt even know how to explain his own decisions and dialogs and his fucking writting its like he doesnt know what the fuck he s doing.
One small step into the right direction. Maybe one day Sega will wake up and not have American writers handling Sonic stories. Or very least hire someone who truly understands Sonic and is far removed from fandom culture, like Pariah.
I hope they have some of the writers of the Adventure to Unleashed Eras return
@@TheKing-uu7jnShiro Maekawa I believe is no longer at Sega. I think he is at Square Enix. They still other writers that could do a better job, like Tyson Hesse (when he is not busy with is job at Hollywood), and Takashi Iizuka (which understands Sonic character writing far better than Ian Flynn, as shown in Sonic Superstars).
@@CanaldoZenny I don't think that Iizuka has that kind of role at Sonic team, am I wrong? And did he write for superstars?
I wish this phenomenon was exclusive to Sonic, it feels like almost every long running franchise has lost the plot.
The fucking description on the Sega channel nailed it, 1000000% That's exactly the charm of the relationship between the two. It should never change. It's evergreen just like Sonic's restleness and boundless energy as he runs to his next adventure. Simple things. Just like how Funimation doesn't "get" Goku's character and changed him into Superman. The only difference between Sonic and Goku is that one technically married and had kids and still did what he wanted but the other just isn't meant to since not even the humour of said series vees off to that direction and it's also why both series have so much overlap, whether they like it or not(the fans certainly do from what I gather). Hell, Oshima in his tweet basically said the loud part out loud about what could easily be Goku and Chichi's relationship that Toriyama didn't say(dunno if he actually did say it in an interview though).
I think that if not for Sonic 06's infamous scene, many would have dismissed the various comics lines since they were largely confined in two different countries for a long time but 06 brought that attention and his relationship to Amy and others to a much more loud forefront. I could be wrong but it seems like ground zero for the current debates and changes around Amy that have lead to this video started there.
PS : A note on the "Piko-Piko Hammer" or "Picohan(From Piko Piko Hanma, which means "Squeaky Hammer")" in the japanese versions, that seem to be in Tales as well is that either very feminine characters have it(such as Colette or Mint in Tales) or very sensitive boys(Leon Magnus for fuck's sake) compared to tomboys(Rutee Katrea) or the men and the boys(Stahn, who's very much like Sonic). The gameplay informs one of the story as well and the comics have always missed that. Double so when it comes to the Tales fanbase, not realising what lies in the hearts of characters.
PPS : The thought of a Sonic writer not being able to identify the shitposting parody goodness of Sonic Boom and thinking it's progress, even when it comes to the designs, is comedy gold. Amy's design fits in Boom because she's being a parody of herself just as the show is a parody of Sonic in general, not just the games; it's laughing with the fanbase for some of the absurdities and bringing that kind of thing to the manstream games, loses its appeal.
@RiderWithTheScarf Even now I get the impression a lot the forced parallels made between Sonic and Dragon Ball go off the dubs (that and the ones doing it are just not that familiar with battle shonen).
This is why I don’t like Ian Flynn’s writing he’s trying to fix problems that weren’t even problems because it’s not what he thinks of these characters this is also why I don’t like IDW comic run of Sonic
It’s kinda like hiring a handyman to fix a sink but he starts replastering your wall because he didn’t like how it looked. Mate, the problem isn’t here, it’s in the bathroom with the leak.
He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written. Get over yourself
@@SillyTron_ the problem is not how sega wants Ian and the others to write them…like the video it shows how Ian wants changes like the romance of Sonic and Amy when that was never a problem even Sega still wants it. But Ian Flynn didn’t want that so he tried to change it to just be friends until Sega stopped them
Im going to be entirely honest
Modern sonic pisses me off
The art direction, the characterization, the lack of gameplay quality
It all frustrated me endlessly
Idk who wrote the sonic adventure games
Bring them back
Please i beg
This is why I like adventure games/designs the most.
Thank you for putting everything that frustrates me about sonic into a video.
Edit: i liked this video a lot btw, even if my comment is me bashing my skull into a wall yet again
couldn't agree more! atleast the meta era is over but so many issues are still left hanging. sonic was always about the edge and style and now it feels so sterile and same. i agree with what you said, the art direction, characterizations and the overall vibe is off. i understand people who just don't care enough but for me modern sonic suffers from so many small issues it actually worsens the series' quality overall
27:20 When Ian was asked about Silver being rude in Japanese he said that Silver "doesn't act rude or disrespectful in any other media or in any other way throughout the history of the franchise".
I know he wrote him being polite in Archie but Ian seems to think that game Silver has NEVER been rude which is insane if you've ever even looked at the Rivals games or Sonic Colors DS.
To be fair, everyone in Rivals kinda acts like a jerk so that the races and fights can happen.
@@solomonm.840 Silver is explicitly more rude than other characters in the Rivals games and other characters call him out on it all the time. Everyone does petty things so races can happen in Rivals but Silver has almost the same personality as Surge the Tenrec with how he talks and insults people. Silver's rude attitude is in his dialogue for every game he's in except the English dub of Team Sonic Racing. Even Sonic Speed Simulator has it.
There's also Silver's Japanese pronouns and mannerisms like how he uses Ore and Anta instead of polite words like Boku and Kimi.
@Fubuki-ro3yv Flynn just sees Silver through the lens of Archie and/or fanon.
It always confused me how people would see Amy's more "eccentric moments" in her chase for Sonic as something they needed to take deathly serious and accuse her of being an abusive stalker. It's supposed to be funny, it's a cartoon hedgehog! Laugh a little.
Even if they don't think it's funny, what I find even more baffling is how they'll single out those moments as if she never did anything else. Heroes is a perfect example of this: she spends an entire game leading Big and Cream to find their missing friends but for some reason they act like her only moment in the game is the fight with Team Sonic.
True. It's like watching Tom & Jerry and seriously interpreting it as a story of two characters trying to murder each other.
Tbf I used to not like the Sonic vs Amy battle in Sonic Heroes. I just think it felt like finding Sonic was her main goal due to it being her first line in the first cutscene. Not that I dislike Amy as a whole and Sonic and Amy's relationship. It was just confusing back then.
Plus, Amy seemed genuinely upset afterwards. And Sonic seemed like he actually didn't want to be bothered that time.
Again, I'm not saying to make them into a typical couple or that Amy is a creepy stalker.
It honestly could be that I misinterpreted it because I was younger and hadn't played as much Sonic yet, nor did I understand nuance.
Maybe if so called sonic fans had not been disrespecting Amy's character for so long on the internet in the past this wouldn't be happening.
In defence of the fans, the media also had a bias towards female representation in media for years. As well as always hating on Sonic games as the industry's biggest punshing bag.
There's no telling how much of the hate was legit or exagerations doe to their political beliefs.
There's this one really funny tweet that I still think about that poked fun at Ian Flynn's "will they, won't they" comment: it basically said that if Ian Flynn were in charge of Tom and Jerry, he'd probably have Tom kill Jerry so that "the series can finally move on" lmao
Wait, seriously? Now I have to find that tweet.
Except that Sonic isn’t dependent on Sonamy being canon or getting rid of unlike a show like Tom and Jerry where you need Jerry for the series to go on because that’s the main premise
@@Strawberrynutt Sonic and Amy's dynamic may not be the crux of the entire series, but it certainly is the crux of their relationship. Viewing Sonic and Amy's relationship as a "will they, won't they" is too binary and it ignores the nuances of how they feel about each other. It's the same reason that asking why Sonic doesn't just kill Eggman and vice versa is ridiculous: because neither of them want to do that. Sonic may be ontologically opposed to Eggman, but he has fun putting a stop to his antics, and he doesn't really care what Eggman's up to once he's not hurting anybody anymore. Likewise, Eggman may be a genius, but he's also an egomaniac and loves a challenge. He sees Sonic's opposition as a chance to prove how great he is, and as annoying as he finds Sonic, he secretly respects him.
The same thing goes for Sonic and Amy. They'll never "tie the knot" so to speak because that would ultimately undermine what they love about each other. Amy loves Sonic because he's a free spirit who does what feels right to him, and Sonic loves Amy because of her unwavering optimism and persistence. Amy loves the chase, and Sonic loves the adventure that comes from the chase. It may seem tragic from an outsider's perspective: two individuals who love each other, but what they love about each other is also what keeps a tantalizing distance between them. And yet, Sonic and Amy wouldn't have it any other way.
There's no reason to canonize "SonAmy" because that dynamic IS SonAmy. For all intents and purposes, Sonic and Amy are romantically involved, even if it's in their own strange way. That way may seem a bit immature, and it certainly is to an extent, but that's also where the beauty lies. Their relationship is this encapsulation of young love, what it feels like to be overcome with infatuation for someone else and eager to show your affection, and also what it feels like to be overcome with embarassment and hesistant to reciprocate that affection.
In that way, perhaps there's no better relationship for two hedgehogs to have, a "hedgehog's dilemma," if you will 😏
@ so then the example was trash and not even close to being the same
@Strawberrynutt it's actually a great example because they both have the same intended appeal. You don't watch Tom and Jerry because you wanna know if Tom will get him this time, as the answer is always "no." The fun is watching their dynamic bring about wacky hijinks as they try to one-up each other. In the same way, you don't watch Sonic and Amy's relationship because you wanna know if Sonic will agree to marry her this time, because again, the answer will always be "no." You watch their relationship because it's fun to see the lengths Amy will go to tease Sonic, and to then see a character who's so cool and confident in the face of danger suddenly get stunned by a girl trying to flirt with him.
I hope Ian goes to write for something else or gets corrected or forced to write her properly, because I want Amy back, and Miss "I don't need no man" is so bland and annoying.
I mean... Even Sonic Speed Simulator has a correctly written Amy. The final dialogue from the crystal event is about not being able to be kept away from her Sonic.
Both are bland and boring. I want neither.
Another banger dimitri.
>Sonic is the wind, Amy is the soft breeze that follows behind.
Perfect metaphor. Where oh where did that comforting breeze go…
As much as I love Frontiers and Shadow Generations, the writing flaws are there. Especially in Frontiers. And also, funnily enough, I’m in such a weird way, glad that the censorship of Rouge ripped off the facade of “anti-censorship” people have been wearing. Because why defend censorship? Did we not learn from the English Dub of Sonic X where scenes and character moments were removed? Did we not learn from video game history?
31:41 Yeah! I loved that character development for Amy in (game that doesn’t exist) it was great!
Seriously, I don’t know why people make this argument that she had character development. What character development, what are you talking about?
Shadow literally shows character development throughout multiple games, Amy on the other hand, changed out of the middle of nowhere.
Ian flynn changing the dialog in generations makes me think he doesn't really care about sonic, regardless of sega's restrictions the dialog doesn't feel meaningful. Fans main argument for why amy dosen't have an arc in frontires is she never comes to the realization that she wants to care about other people besides sonic. Instead of hinting at the change so it made more sense in frontires it was just removed for the most part. Its not even that sega is that stingy about their relationship, it was on full display in the ("murder of sonic the hedgehog")
Amy Rose is my favorite character and I really dislike how Ian Flynn has been handling her character. Thank you for shedding light on this topic.
He and the other writers write these characters how SEGA wants them written. Get over yourself
@@SillyTron_ are you saying this in multiple places? If so, why?
Sonic occupies such a strange place in pop culture. I feel like every Sonic fan is simultaneously a furry and someone who hates furries.
So much tism attraction.
I do in fact dislike furries while wanting to fornicate with Sonic characters.
@@DimitriMonroe Huh?
"There are two wolves inside you"
@@DimitriMonroe This man knows
As an ex-sonic fan, I would never wish for revisit the series in the state it's in now. For all the raw toxicity and childish whining, it was all just in the confines of fiction. As soon as it got political, it was over. Sonic is a cartoon character for children, he's not a slogan for gay people or any political faction (yes even libertarians). Unless ESGs get outlawed and/or the bad actors in and out of sega get removed from control of the franchise, there's no point having any hope for sonic getting revived.
I played and enjoyed Sonic because he's unrealistic and fun. Not because he was "literally me".
Nothing about Sonic is poltical. Many LGBT people just happen to like Sonic and if that offends you, that's your problem.
@@D4RKL0RDARES LGBT+ is a political movement. And sexuality is an adult topic no matter how to twist it, and therefore ought not be in children's content/medium.
Also it's *because* sonic is apolitical that it allow for all to enjoy his character/games. No sane person cares who and what type of person also plays Sonic games.
@@D4RKL0RDARES Not all gay people are LGBT members or allies, so don't mistake the movement for the people themselves.
I like watching videos on what people don’t like about the comic’s writing because I want to write and draw whatever Sonic comics are running when I’m an adult, so I know what not to do.
Man, such a good video. You' ve encapsulated every problem i have with the current direction of sonic. The thing that anoys me the most is that they treat what is an essentially different character like if it was the same
Let them come, there is one based sonic fan who still draws breath
Uses anime clips tho... gotta put em down
@@marcxworld5708 ???
What's wrong with anime clips?
Finally some good perspective
@@marcxworld5708 L take
When sega drives, they scratch all the paint off without damage the glass somehow...
But when they hand the keys to someone else, they get a while of perfect driving but end up having to fish it out of a canyon suddenly after...
I feel like if Sonic did not want her there, she would be there at all. Sonic is not the type of dude to just hang around people he doesn't like, she would have been gone a long time ago if he didn't want her around.
Ian if he gets control of the designs:
We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt off the menu.
That's right!
We're going back in time to Sonic CD to get the hoop skirt OFF THE MENU!!
"... Who are you talking to?"
I was not expecting a Free Bird reference, but here we are.
I had no idea the difference between the Japanese dub and the American one were becoming so great. I'll have to start checking these games out in Japanese
44:23 No one ever mentions this when talking about why the questions started needing moderation so I was under the assumption that it was just because some people were being mean spirited. That's kind of wild that he'd say that on a live stream that's most likely got children tuning in to watch.
Yeah people need to chill it and have failed over and over to understand, at the end of the day, this is an all ages property, keep it in your pants and it was wrong of Flynn to enable it.
Saying Amy was never a damsel is like saying Sonic CD (Amy’s first appearance) never happened & the whole point of her arc in Sonic Adventure was that she wanted to prove she wasn’t a damsel anymore didn’t happen
One of my big points I always put out too, her arc in Frontiers/sort of IDW is just a worse version of her Adventure arc, it's not as solidly told and it eschews her feminine traits in favor of girlbossing, as they say. Tails is in a similar boat that was more so to correct the huge problem of his Forces portrayal so it's not as big an issue (and entirely justified imo)
The statement very obviously is not supposed to be taken literally. This is if I said said Tails has never been stupid you come and point out times he made mistakes and were dumb. What Dimitri saying here is that Amy was not written to be character that just fills the Damsel role. A female character is not just a damsel simply becuase she was saved by the male lead.
You missed the point entirely willfully or otherwise.
Men get saved all the time in media, so do women. It's how it is portrayed and what the character is in that world that matters.
the issue is the oversimplification. "media literacy" types soyface the fuck out when they can simplify a female character into a problematic trope because she has to be saved at any point, as though that's all she is now. it's a con. a grift. yes, she was damseled at times but she was never JUST a damsel. you get it yet?
There truly aren't many things out there as pathetic as seeing a dude in his 30s telling you to shut up about censorship in a franchise they supposedly care about, all because they never grew up out of high school and still are genuinely terrified of being called a "cringe weeaboo.".
Whether it's Sonic or Fire Emblem or any other Japanese franchise, millennials will always find a way to make discussion around them 100x worse.
Also great work here! If an Amy video was an hour, I fear for the Himari segment in your ba video
48:25 Don't call them that. My girl Korone shouldn't be lumped alongside these people.
This video is excellent, and hopefully it can not only be a good point of debates about characterization in Sonic games moving forward, but also as feedback.
That being said... I still can't help myself but love Sonaze, THEY'RE THE GOATS
LOL the actual brand ambassadors didn't even register in my mind. She's a good dog, I didn't mean it!
And thanks, I have a acquaintance who loves sonaze, even has an OC for their kid. Definitely see the appeal!
Never mess with the doggo and its people
I will say I came into this video completely on the other side of the argument, I genuenly felt like it was gonna be one of those “amy shouldn’t be her own person” kinda video, but i actually left mostly on your side lol, great video.
I will say, I don’t think Ian being part of the fandom is the only reason for peopel defending him, me and others just felt happy that we were out of the “Sonic Forces” trenches in terms of writing and characterization.
Ian Flynn was a breath of fresh air, even if not perfect, and I’m willing to give him a chance to maybe improve on what he’s done, because I truly believe he does care about the franchise.
I also feel like places like Twitter are not places for conversations and discussions, people do not go into that app for anything other than internet points by dunking on others and rage bait, and I feel that warps the perception of the greater fandom that may have more nuanced takes and feelings on the franchise and the writing and Ian Flynn.
I will also say that even though I understand your points, I feel like sometimes you were too antagonistic against Ian Flynn, again, I’m not here defending, but just something I felt. I believe he cares and tries his best, even if his best is not something you agree with, but its not an excuse to say he may not like the series at all, or that his thoughts from 2005 are emblematic of who he is today.
Finally, I will just say that it was genuinely a great video, and I left with a new perspective, we may disagree on some stuff, but you made a good point and changed my views on the topic haha
Thank you, glad you got something from it, some disagreement is always to be expected.
This video made fall even more in love with the old Amy. It makes me miss her so much, it makes me angry with how current sega is treating her character.
It’s a shame about Sonic and Sally’s relationship since most of the original Archie staff left. Ian Flynn and Mike Pellerito never wanted Sonic and Sally to be together and instead wanted to ship Sally with Nicole in the reboot.
why?
Amy is the ultimate anime girl and I'm here for it; I love their banter and body language
I enjoyed Frontiers and the IDW comics, but I had this concern when thinking about Sonic 4 (the movie). I’m afraid they might portray Amy as a stereotypical 'girl boss' who doesn’t have a crush on Sonic, while Sonic ends up being the one with a crush on her.
This feels like a real possibility, and it would be SO bad. It’s funny, though, because I didn’t have any issues with Frontiers (probably because it felt like something different), and I enjoyed the IDW comics since there are many plot points I like.
But with the movie, which should adapt Sonic CD, I really feel this concern-and I’m worried about it.
This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. It feels like it's really popular to make the woman super super dominant and the man is basically a simp or just acts like a normal "freind" to the woman.
I understand not wanting to make Amy tooo crazy. However Amy and the rest of the Sonic characters are kind like kids. It wouldn't make sense for Amy to already be really mature and independent.
They need to adapt the characters as faithfully as possible (which they have been doing well so far). Like you said taking some influence from Sonic CD. I can't stand that just because Amy was so open and direct about her love that it makes her less of a character to some people.
@perfectoblivion254 yes! Besides, I find her crush on Sonic cute. That's what I like about anime, they don't shy from showing crushes as something cute and adorable.
Most likely scenario: Paramount will not allow Amy to have romantic feelings for Sonic, but likewise, Sega will not allow Sonic to have romantic feelings for Amy. That would be a step too far, and always has been.
You know when some people say that shipping ruins a show or series? I also feel the same way about headcanons now. Some writers, artists, and fans just can’t help but try to force their headcanons onto characters and a series to the point where it’s no longer it’s normal self anymore. And if said thing doesn’t follow their headcanons, they get really angry and toxic online. I have come to hate headcanons just as much as I hate shipping. This kind of shit is why I stay outside of most fandoms of anything I’m a fan of. The current western writers such as Ian Flynn are not being “bullied” by Sega Mandates like what Sonic fans want to believe. They are just trying way too hard to force their personal headcanons and biases of the characters and such into the series and they’re just mad that Sega doesn’t simply allow that. But if you dare point that out, you’re evil and a “fake fan” I guess. Can’t say anything even slightly negative about our lord and savior, Ian Flynn. Nope, he’s just this untouchable god that can do no wrong that this fucking fanbase worships like a cult, I guess.
The Sonic Franchise is an undeniable mess and that’s why some believe that the fans should have more control over it. But I think that if fans were to have full, unlimited control over the franchise, it would still be a fucking mess. Just a different kind of mess. Same thing to any other franchise if fans were to have full, unlimited control over it.
Also, learning about that whole Krack932 situation in the video made me lose respect for IDW Sonic and the staff behind it. The fact that Ian Flynn liked that tweet from Daniel Barnes made me lose respect for him as a person. I don’t feel comfortable reading IDW Sonic now. It also felt off to me anyways, especially since they’re trying to push it as being part of the games’ canon. Such disgusting behavior. All of the toxic positivity going on in this fanbase will be its own undoing. That whole segment about the fanbase current toxicity reminds me of why the Sonic Fanbase still maintains its infamous and toxic image to this day. But at this point, they pretty much ask for it. Why does Sonic always attract the most toxic kind of people? Better yet, why does any franchise (especially ones aimed at kids) that primarily focuses on themes involving friendship, teamwork, love, kindness, enjoying life, acceptance, freedom, etc. always attract the most toxic kind of people in its fanbase?
And well, this is pretty much why I stay outside of fanbases, including the ones that revolve around the franchises I love. That, and I personally don’t feel like I fit in well with them nor belong in them anyways. But I’ll still be a fan of the things that I love. If someone thinks that I’m a fake fan just because I’m not constantly worshiping and kissing the behind of a writer or because I personally don’t like a certain installment in a series or whatever, then that’s their problem. I decide what I am and am not a fan of personally, not them. I’ll be a fan of whatever I want to be a fan of.
For the last thing you said, I saw someone else speak about this way back. It could be because of how the franchise presents itself. I and some others have noticed that if a series is darker like Breaking Bad or Berserk, the fans tend to be calmer and more respectable. But for the more child friendly fanbases, they tend to be the most hostile and toxic out of all of them. It might be because of how each character lives their lives in their respective worlds. The reason Berserk fans are so calm is because no one wants to live the life Guts had and the reason Sonic fans are like that might be because of how happy that world is and the lives the characters live. Not many Sonic characters are too tragic. They'll have tragic backstories but their present and the future will be positive, with Silver once being the exception.
It's always weird how the brighter ones are always like this, but years of being around them lets you see more and more how they are and why that's the case.
What's the Knack932 situation? I don't use Twitter and couldn't find anything about it.
@ It was shown in the video through the screenshots and explained. Seeing that made me feel disgusted and lose respect for IDW Sonic and its staff. Though now, I kinda wish it had its own video going more in depth about it. To be honest, I don’t use Twitter either as I hate the platform and how toxic it is. But this whole thing reminded me of how toxic Sonic Twitter is and knowing how the people who work on the official product are like this is sad to see.
@@amarvax3442 I’ve noticed this pattern for a while now. At this point, someone might as well make a psychological study on it.
I love how true this video is, I've been in the Sonic "Fandom" and they are not real fans, I have been attacked for just enjoying the games, heck I've been on Discord servers afraid to talk about Sonic from fear of being bullied. these "Fans" are not real fans, they are bullies and morons that want to gate keep Sonic from the real fans and Ian Flynn, I don't hate him but I can say I don't like his style of writing, it just makes all my favorite characters feel like one dimensional and watered down. yet when someone brings it up suddenly we get attacked. I was even harassed on a live stream while watching someone over saying I enjoyed a Sonic game, I love and will always enjoy Sonic games but I stopped even trying to be around any large group of "Fans" because of this. Amy Rose is my favorite character because she is feminine and not that boring "Better then everyone else because Woman" nonsense. I love the cute hearts as she swings her hammer and her love for baking while she does her best to go after the guy she loves. Lyn Flynn needs to be replaced with someone that respects the material because he clearly doesn't.
ian flynn haters are no better, you have people like randomfox going arround saying flynn should die and that people who enjoy sonic idw are not real sonic fans,
@@exchangediary968 Your point? "Bad people are on both sides" is literally a no brainer. The main thing that is important is how bad it is to have toxic positively support something that, proven with evidence, won't be good for the franchise in the long run.
@ the problem this is Sonic Teams decision, not Flynn not some evil scary none Japanese westerner out to destroy a Japanese creation with his evil agenda lmao, it’s what sonic team believes the international world wants since they encouraged prime boom and other writers to make Amy that way
I'm not even a big fan of Amy Rose pre-IDW, but I certainly dislike her even more as she currently is. I feel like I have to go out of my way to defend her whenever I say that I don't like how she currently is because there are people that will just be like "uh, actually she's better now", but no one gets her.
There's so much I can say about this video, but the shorthand is that I have no idea what Ian's thinking. Going into someone else's series and then just making it his own thing, it almost sounds like he didn't like the series at all. But the worshipping of Ian is the worst part, and it's hard to fight against it because it seems that lots of people prefer the current direction of Sonic and its characters.
Honestly, the fandom is just anti-criticism if you ask me and this is part of the reason I really do not like the Sonic fanbase. Sure they make some great fangames at times, but it's very rare to see someone actually understand the series. I feel like people like you and Pariah695 have strong understandings of the series, which is why I like listening to your opinions.
I really loved hearing your prespective on Amy, it's such a wonderful take. The misunderstanding of Amy's character truly is the embodiment of "If a teenage girl likes something, it means it's bad". Including when she likes boys and plays around I guess. She can be a little silly, she's allowed to.
15:00 This was a really interesting perspective on Sonic and Amy's relationship and by anything it really makes Amy really cool. I feel like that aspect of her character is rarely touched on directly but it's always been there.
23:56 And looking at Amy as the one who can truly bring an end to the series is hilarious and sad.
I have a theory that you touched on about amy towards sexualization of girl characters in general
The idea Amy loves Sonic to the degree she does and is ok with his choices makes them see her as weak, but supporting the person she loves isnt weak, not many people can stand between the treat of the week and sonic and live to tell the tale
Likewise i find if a girl character is sexualized in any way(not objectified just because those terms get used interchangably) then people tend to see the girl as less than before even if shes strong or likable or smart, none of her characteristics or drive matter anymore because real men find her sexually stimulating, this is why characters like Laura Croft and Bayo get fans once the new target shows up, just look at 2B, at release its "why is she so sexy" to "why do people only see her as sexy, only i understand her not those gooners",
Its just sad that by that same logic they should have been on the characters side from the get go but it ultimately comes down to they dont like that peoples fantasies can be fufiled just like Amy chasing Sonic is the fantasy of a girl chasing a guy
It is odd how they were the ones to talk about Amy's underwear more than the so-called perverts. I wonder if they would be happy if she ran around nude like Sonic and Tails do.
Am a fan of the IDW comics but yeah I dislike how Ian wants to try and make Amy a girl boss and sever the relationship between her and Sonic. Amy can be independent and awesome but it’s much more awesome if that spark of heroism came from Sonic. She can still love Sonic while showing independence and having her moments.
On one hand, I like how they made Amy less “clingy” towards Sonic but at the same time I hate how people like Ian wants to completely sever the connection with Sonic. Hope the writing for Amy gets better in the future.
Dude Amy clearly has the feelings Ian and the Idw writers are just making her able to be a character outside of her crush which was horribly written in the past seeing she attacked sonic for not dating her in forces and constantly tackled hedgehogs with no regard of personal space. Also fym completely sever her connection with sonic? Is that what you somehow got from her saying she wanted to spread love to the whole world?
@@miniwhiffy3465 No, Amy spreading love to the world is something I love about her character. What I meant by “sever” was how Amy’s relationship towards Sonic seems less about her being inspired by her hero now. I think it was awesome how Amy deeply cared about Sonic and how he inspired her. Now, it seems less like that and writers like Ian wanting Amy to be more of a girlboss. Don’t get me wrong there’s moments with Ian’s writing of Amy that I love but I wish it’s emphasized more how much Sonic inspired her and she shows more of her care of Sonic (of course not by making her clingy and going “Oh, my Sonic!”). To me, it makes Amy more of an interesting character from when she first met Sonic in CD to now working with the blue blur on multiple occasions, helping the world thanks to Sonic with what he stands for.
@TheSnappo i feel like they got the inspired by sonic part down in frontiers but alright, also frontiers happens after the metal virus and a bunch of IDW stuff so it'd make sense amy would be a decent bit more self supporting and "girlboss"ish.
Amy is not a girlboss, though. And that's the problem. This is a grown ass man who needed to rub his tendencies of modern writing of fictional women, like his nuts, all across the product which is an IP's character.
You know, if dogs give some owners that problem, the owners remove them.
@@TOUGHEYES what the fuck are you even saying?
honestly, it seems to come down to both Flynn and Modern Localizers for the games, heck, even the "SEGA Mandates" were made up by Flynn himself as an excuse, he tried to get rid of the Freedom Fighters in Archie and was a reason Sonic ScanF got rid of their Comic Section, but yes, I too miss when Amy did show her Feelings, it's called Moderation, in which, most people and SEGA themselves don't seem to get
and to be fair, I'll first say Sonic games should Focus on the Adventure first and foremost, it's find for Amy to crush just make sure it's appropriate for the situation, that said, I can see Sonic and Amy getting married, but not settling down, and just going about their lives like usually, Sonic loves adventure and fighting for what's right and Amy enjoys that part of him, so I don't see her stopping him either way, no need for kids tho, so boyfriend and girlfriend really
EDIT: and I don't care what anyone says, IDW is not cannon and never will be, heck, if we go by that logic, the Movies are Cannon because of the Shadow DLC and that's one hole SEGA doesn't want to be stepping into
EDIT 2: I think Flynn trying to make his own headcanon "Cannon" because his actions points to it, he tried getting rid of the Freedom Fighters despite them being Prime for the Comics yet want the Comics to be like the Games, just sayin', can't play both sides unless you want something in return, and after hearing about the Vetting, SEGA should just fire him at this point
Fantastic video as always, I also enjoyed the little side tangent on Silver, another character who's been horribly mischaracterized, despite being one of the most powerful characters in the franchise and in spite of the game he debuted in, had such a strong foundation for what his character could be like. Only for that to all be dropped to make him some soft-boy, especially in the comics. Silver is naive, yes, and you can't blame him given the future he's from, desperately seeking any sort of way to save it, but he should be determined and even a bit cocky. After all, he might as well have been toying with Sonic when he fought him the two times before Amy and Shadow intervened respectively.
Now enough on Silver... for now, back to Amy, with the state her character has been headed, not only am I worried for new mainline games that may include her, but especially the rumored Sonic Heroes remake everyone keeps talking about. It's one thing to rewrite dialogue for a game that was originally made to celebrate the franchise, in which majority of the cast just stand around in a white void (not saying I agree with the change), but it'll be a whole other thing to completely rewrite dialogue for an entire campaign in which Amy is majorly focused on finding Sonic due to her crush, and where we get more of that fun banter between the two when their teams run into each other.
Yeah, I’m absolutely horrified about what that theoretical Heroes remake will be like in the writing department.
@@jakahawk The video stated that Amy is mainly focused on finding her friends and that Sonic was a side thing, but you're stating that Amy was mainly after Sonic. Which is it? Because I prefer the former.
To link this to something that happened recently.
It feels like the IDW staff is the polar opposite of eggman's VA. Where they'll bitch and moan about not being able to do whatever they damn well please, meanwhile eggamn's va beats people with sticks when they ask him to make an announcement because SEGA doesnt want to make that characterization of eggman "canon" in any way.
He respects the characters (or at least the wishes of the people in charge of those characters.)
And the idw team only respects the ocs they injected into the story, both the ones with original designs and the ones they snuck in by having them wear the skin of actual characters.
I really often compare Amy's character (funnily enough) to Rose Tyler from Doctor Who, chasing that fleet footed love, the danger, excitement, always running towards the next threat with her hero
Come on, sega! Stop allowing American writers to work on the series.