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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- Over the years, Batman has had many origins and many villain's he faces as his first real threat in his crime fighting career. There is an argument to be made that it could be nearly any villain in his rogues gallery, as long as the story is written correctly. However, here is my suggestion.
Thanks to @goldenwigs3219 for the comment and leave your answers below for who you think Batman's first villain should be!
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I don’t know if this guy counts but I think Falcone makes the most sense. Start with a more traditional mobster before we move into the deranged super villains
But if you mean Super villains, like you said the penguin conserve this role quite well and he has a personal grudge against Bruce outside of the mask. Black Mask also wouldn’t be a bad choice
I agree. Black Mask or Penguin.
Great picks all around. 👊👊👌👌
Falcone as 'the past', Black Mask as 'the future' of crime in Gotham.
Throw in Batman hunting down Joe Chill & the pair of them getting caught in the middle.
While I do agree I think falcone will make penguin redundant so I think you might as well just start with penguin and then bring falcone on later for for Dicks story
@@bignoasted2701wasn't Falcone and penguin along with the Riddler the villains of the Robert Pattison batman movie
I wrote a synopsis for a 10-issue one-shot comic where Black Mask is the overarching villain of a year one sort of Batman story. The more I worked on it, the more I realized that Roman Sionis is a great fit. He's not the most popular, but he works wonders.
There's definitely a case to be made when it comes to Identity you know black mask is similar in that way but personality wise they don't bounce off each other I feel like a good villain counter balances the hero in multiple ways that's why he's always struck me as more of a Nightwing Villan
Im gonna go Black Mask. He's straight up Gangsta. Or Black Mask and Penguin Battling for Gotham.
A massive mob war would be interesting. Kind of like War Games.
@tyrellmultimedia And a perfect up. Gotham at war. No more than even ever Gotham needs a hero. Enter Batman.
I will say, going off of the idea you suggested that penguin could be Batman‘s first super villain, that would kind of add to why in Arkham night it was casually mentioned that in the eyes of a lot of people penguin is Batman‘s arch nemesis.
Admittedly that was during a scene where jokers personality was dealing with fear toxin so of course he would hate the idea that the penguin of all people was seen as a bigger villain than him, but you could totally take that information and say that with penguin being the first villain Batman ever fights the public might see him as Batman‘s nemesis.
Exactly like I said before about the Untouchables movie
I purpose an alternate idea for Scarecrow as Batman's first big villain to go up against
After going through the training to become the Batman and a good couple months of taking down low profile mobs and criminals, he first encounters Johnathan Crane one night and is faced with a new challenge. Someone who can utilize fear as much as he can. Scarecrow's goal is conquer his fear of the Batman in order to further control fear itself. A battle to see who is the better user of fear to Johnathan, and a battle to stop a fear obsessed doctor to Batman
Exactly. I feel like Scarecrow would be Batman's first villain as BATMAN. When he's facing criminals and mobsters he's more learning the ropes of how to be Batman. He's still Bruce Wayne.
When faced against a character embodying a monster, Bruce has to alter himself and become Batman.
I have no complaints, Scarecrow is my favorite DC character.
I think scarecrow should come a little later, like you Said, he also uses fear as a weapon, It makes more Sense to me if scarecrow was his First step up into The deranged supervillain World after fighting Mobsters and thugs for a living. Scarecrow hits harder to me If we see Batman make people fear him for some time before he himself has to face that fear, It breaks The formula which gives It more impact
What about Scarecrow? He uses fear (mirroring Batman). This could lead to some kind of character development for Bruce about fear in some way.
Honestly Batman and Scarecrow have much more common in their methods and motivation than with Joker vs Batman.
Hugo Strange should be the first supervillain in my opinion. Many writers have toyed with the idea that Batman mostly went up against basic mobsters before a bunch of nutcases started showing up, implying Batman's presence pushed some madmen over the edge into villainy. Hugo Strange has always been portrayed as an early villain and his obsession with Batman makes him perfect for this theme
Penguin I don't think should be major until after the more standard mobsters are weeded out, which takes a few years. The freaks replacing the standard gangsters is kinda the point of the Long Halloween
exactly penguin being the first villain or black mask being the first villain defeats the point of the escalation that batman brought to gotham's criminal element. if penguin or sionis were his first villain that would imply they'd have to be around for a long time even before batman which wouldn't work.
Personally I think that theme might work better as a slow burn. It might be better to have the early supervillains be doing regular crime but with a bit more freaky than usual. And it escalates more and more. I think someone who is blatantly obsessed with batman should come a little bit later, let someone else load the bases so he can send them home, you know?
Edit: my suggestion would be zsasz or firefly. Probably zsasz first then firefly. Maybe reference early comics with the mad monk.
I could imagin it now, Batman enters the abandoned amusement park. He follows the bloodtrail into the big attraction of the park "Alice and her adventures into Wonderland." Mad hatter being Batmans first villain would unnerve Batman enough so that he can understand what the criminals in Gotham will be like in the future
My first thought was Penguin too. Just a human, low tech & connected to the street level crime in Gotham. Plus Penguin starts as a villain.
This is a great question. The rogues gallery is filled with some amazing characters and it took me a while to think about who would fit. I was genuinely leaning on Hugo Strange because I really like his stories. I like Hugo getting his obsession with him just as Bruce is starting so that it can be a developing rivalry. I’m going with Penguin and I really didn’t want to because I wanted either an obscure villain or someone that has that ability to get you hooked. That’s not to say Penguin can’t get you hooked, but rather I feel my answer is generic.
I have always found Penguin to be one of his more generic villains too. But I do think he works here for this setting.
as for supervillains id say; doctor death, mad monk, riddler, joker
but for villains/antagonist in general the GCPD, catwoman, or any sort of organized crime
In my take, I'd have the first villains be Gotham's crime families. The Maronis and the Falcones. With Catwoman and the Penguin on the side, Penguin being a seed to grow into a bigger villain and possible ally. The Joker would act as the usher of the costumed criminals, appearing out of nowhere at the start of Batman's second year.
I know it's kinda of a boring answer, but I think it's got to be the Joker. That quote from Heath Ledger's Joker just stuck on my head and I think it's so perfect: "This city deserve a better class of criminals... It's not about the money, but sending a message." In my mind, Joker should always be the first to respond to Batman introducing Gotham from the age of cops vs criminals, to the age of heroes vs villains, and then the rest of the bunch should see him, and follow his lead. The way I see it, Cobblepot is just the Falcone that follow up with the new times!
I'm bias but I honestly think Scarecrow would be the most ideal first villain for Batman.
Both have the same core values when it comes to getting what they want. Which is embodying a figure of power and source of fear in their life. This also offers a cathartic way they can achieve vengeance by using that symbol to make others understand what they fear. In many respects, both Jonathan Crane and Bruce Wayne use childhood trauma and the pursuit of revenge as a source of their rage and ambitions. Both go through elaborative means to maintain the illusion that they are monsters and will subject their opponents to heavy physical and psychological torment if it's deemed necessary.
The difference is Batman disciplines himself and works to not recreate that pain for other people. His moral compass allows him to identify the issues he wants to confront and dedicates himself to that war, which is his crusade against crime.
Scarecrow has no more compass. the pain that Crane was subjected too as a child pretty much dominates his life and as such his main modus operandi is to subject people to the same trauma he was a victim towards. Rather than using his genius to improve his own life and prevent others from going through the pain he went through, he'd rather weaponize his skills to causing just as much horror as possible. In a sense he abandons his humanity to become what he perceives as more powerful.
One individual who was hurt decided to not create that moment again and better himself.
The other chose to define his entire his existence through his obsession and the pain of others.
I think that's a perfect dynamic for a first Arc of Batman, or at least one where it transitions from Bruce fighting Mob Crime to descending into the horrors of super villainy.
It also helps that Crane is not necessarily an "insane" villain. He's shown time and time again to be mentally sane. Which means he chooses to exhibit cruelty despite his academic success. Batman, despite having billions of dollars, dedicates most of his resources to helping others even if it weighs down his mentality and personal happiness.
I'm not saying Scarecrow should replace Joker as Batman's true and ultimate foe, but I do think Crane and Bruce are more parallels to each other than Joker and Batman. What makes Joker an interesting rival to Batman (imho) is that they CONTRAST each other. Yes Joker and Batman have many similarities but that's not what exclusively makes Joker so iconic. Batman parallels a lot of his villains like Catwoman or Two Face, hell you can even stretch similarities of Bruce's struggles with more minor villains like Baby Doll and Black Mask if you really wanted to.
I know that you chose penguin as Batman's first actual villain to deal with in fact if I remember correctly in Batman Earth One penguin technically was the first guy that he ever fought against in his career.
But if I had to choose anybody to be like a Kingpin of crime I would definitely go with black mask since he'll be like the Wilson Fisk of the mob in fact this concept was actually thought of during the Batman Arkham Origins where Batman was thinking that black mask was killed by penguin because of a Turf War.
I think it would be the Monarch of Menace would be the perfect first or second super villian for a year one Batman story to feature. Then for the "third year" or season, depending on the medium. You could have the story where Batman finally suceeds in catching the Monarch who was the only one to get away. Much like his original comic. I honestly think it just works.
As the other guy said, start out with your mobsters like Maroni and Falcone, then after the appearance have the mob bosses escalate with the likes of Black Mask and the Penguin, then start to introduce the criminally insane villain's.
I think the only exceptions to this general guideline are Harvey Dent, Ra's Al Ghul and maybe even Shiva, seeming as they all have pretty strong ties to the early days of Batmans career.
I think you could use Falcone and Maroni as a mid way point where Batman realizes the chain of command goes much higher. And then that's where he elevates to Penguin and/or Black Mask.
@tyrellmultimedia yeah that's fair true. Maybe the start of his career could be the more generic but more serial killer like villains. Like Zsasz, Professor Pyg or Dollmaker, Deacon Blackfyre etc.
Good idea either way 👍
This was an awesome watch! Idk if you’d actually do this, but if you decided to make a series detailing the supervillains who’d show up throughout these early years of Batman sort of as continuations of this that’d be so cool!
Blob Clayface hunting down Daggett executives and senators. Daggett hires either enhanced assassin Philo Zeiss or Deathstroke to stop both Clayface and Batman from figuring out things. Batman being the best detective to ever exist figures out what happens, and beats both Clayface and either Philo Zeiss or Deathstroke revealing to the world the corruption used by senators across the US leading to the arrest of many. Batman also gets to flex his scientific prowess as he can develop a cure for Clayface after discovering that Clayface's condition isn’t sustainable and will soon lead to his death if not taken care of.
i think the first villain batman would face is Mr Freeze. he is usually depicted as a much older gentleman. he is old enough to be Bruce's grandfather. what if he was a scientist at Wayne Enterprises before Thomas and Martha got killed. after their deaths, many employees at Wayne Enterprises got laid off. victor spends the next 15 years working at gothcorp. after victor turned 85, ferris boyle tried to get victor to retire. victor spent over 50 years of his life trying to find a cure for nora. Boyle kicked victor into a table of chemicals, turning him into Mr Freeze. batman stops Victor from getting his revenge by appealing to Victor's conscience and talking him out of killing Boyle. afterwards, Bruce takes control of Wayne Enterprises and hires Victor back to work for him and find a cure for nora. and then it is revealed that Bruce knew Victor when he was a kid.
my comment was supposed to be longer but i accidentally deleted it so i had to type it all over again
That makes sense, start with the more regular criminals, and then as Batman shows up, some of those regular criminals like the Penguin start to innovate to try to keep up, while the emergence of a hero starts to attract or even form villains, eager to take up the challenge of this so-called hero (Riddler would be a great case for this) or even possibly inspired by the hero in a twisted way (such as The Dark Knight's take on the Joker), and then finally the more fantastical villains are folded in, possibly even created by some of the prior 'wave' of villains just to add more chaos or to potentially serve as henchmen. Some could still be legitimate accidents, but it would be interesting if someone like Hugo Strange or the Joker decided to experiment a bit. Man-Bat in particular I could see being some sort of twisted joke the Joker would come up with.
I like the mob as the first one and frankly. black mask makes sense for me as the first supervillain tho i think penguin works very well, with maybe like. the riddler being there in a non antagonist role. i'm a big fan of the riddler being a more neutral figure as opposed to be a pure villain so him being around and doing shady stuff but also solving issues (because he loves solving mysteries) works for me. I like it so in the origin it's just the mob but the supercriminals or to-be supercriminals are doing stuff already
love your channel fr man 💯
Thanks man! Glad to have you here!
The first villain for Batman any Batman Origin story should always be Holiday in an adaptation of The Long Halloween. The ideal villain for Batman is Ghost Maker. Ghost Maker is a mirror image of Batman.
I think exploring Red Hood as Batman's first costumed villain could be interesting setting up the dynamic Batman and his pre-Joker nemesis. Red Hood can also have Joker traits such as manipulating people to join his crimes and maybe creating the Royal Flush Gang from that or adding to his more theatrical side in order to challenge the police and the mysterious Batman. Red Hood could be seen as a communist Robin Hood. To those who follow the government and society's rules he's a villain and to those who feel oppressed by the government and societal rules he's a hero when really he does what he wants because he can. He represents nothing, he believes in nothing other than doing what makes him happy. I see him as almost like a Hannibal Lecter to Batman someone who is intelligent but not like a detective but like a surgeon who pokes and prods at people's minds finding out everything about them.
I think some sort of mob boss like Black Mass or Penguin makes decent sense.
This is only a slight change but what if falcone went against the orders of the mob and killed them but its later revealed that penguin knew about it and allowed it to happen and penguins stubbly protects falcone that's the action that penguin took over is when falcone went against the family
I like black mask just bc personally I think the character has untapped potential as potential being the first costumed villain
Honestly, either Penguin or Black Mask. Maybe even both, with both of them maybe putting differences to the side to take out this new vigilante that threatens both of their organizations.
With Batman breathing down the mobs neck, it would make them do things out of desperation. There's nothing worse then seeing your empire fall.
I actually have several answers to this, so hold tight.
As the first adversary in Bruce's mission, I'd say it would have to be Carmine Falcone or someone of his variety - hell Rupert Thorne could work.
However, when it comes to legitimate supervillains, it's a bit more complicated. I've always liked the concept of escalation and how, as Bruce pushes forward, Gotham throws another new threat his way, each time getting worse and worse. In this case, I'd say some of Batman's serial killing oriented villains like Zsasz, Calendar-Man, or Professor Pyg would probably make the most sense, however if we're talking the first major supervillain threats to Gotham I'd say Penguin, Black Mask, or even the Great White Shark if you really wanted to could work. I think you could make a real argument for Two-Face, too, as he's the DA and sometimes even the mayor, who is obsessed with taking down organized crime in Gotham City and the climate of early days Batman definitely fits that narrative.
Some might find this suggestion a little strange, but the Court of Owls in my eyes is perfect for early Batman. They're so engrained in Gotham’s history and presumably in control of everything, and while some might find it more appropriate for a finale of sorts because of that fact, I ask, hasn't Falcone served a similar position and he's early days? I feel it speaks for itself. You can even have Falcone or whoever your major mob figure is, be a member of the Court if you'd like. However, I feel if you separate the two and claim one was above the other, it somewhat cheapens the respective impacts they had. At least, in my opinion.
Those are just a few options that came to my mind, though I feel if you tweak the character enough, you could probably have any one of the rogues take the role of the first. That being said, I encourage you not to jump to the Joker. We all love him, but he's not the only rogue that matters.
Who would be the first ideal supervillain for SUPERMAN?
• And by “supervillain” I meant one with powers that are equal and/or greater than Superman’s. I imagine this villain would be his greatest challenge in his early career as Metropolis’ first superhero. That villain would (indirectly)force Superman to think outside the box and use his powers and abilities more properly and in the most creative and imaginative way possible.
For me, I would start Batman’s career as Mafia and Crime Family to Costumed Crime Gangs to Supervillians. So if it’s counting mafias, I would say Falcone, but if I’m going typical villains, I would also go Penguin. I like the idea of Gotham just getting weirder and louder with the villains over the years, so the ones like Penguin and Black Mask who are the “transitional” villains should go before. The only exception I could think would be Red Hood though.
Two-Face and Hugo Strange without a shadow of a doubt
I'm going with Catwoman. I like them being intrinsically tied from day one.
Surely he took down enemies before coming back to Gotham? You could argue David Cain or one of his mentors was his first villain. He would have met Penguin or Carmine Falcone in Gotham but he wouldn’t have been able to take them down for awhile. So maybe Two-Face. I think Harvey Dent was disfigured by Maroni so he still hadn’t taken down Maroni and Falcone so wasn’t up to Penguin or Black Mask yet. Also maybe Joker because the Red Hood gang was taken down quite early in his career before the major gangs
Do you think Pengiun was underused in The Batman movie and if so are excited to see The Penguin series this year? Or were you not really a fan of Matt Reeves dipction of Penguin or Batman for that matter?
I thought the movie was amazing. And as fantastic as it is I still think it's the one of the most overrated great films out there (I do have context to what I mean by that lol). But yes the movie opened many doors for Penguin to branch out in Gotham, so I'm interested to see what they do.
I think Gotham itself is Batman’s first villain, I think that’s best represented in Batman year one and Batman begins.
The mad monk might be a good option?
Well like I said before is that I always felt that Batman and Penguin should be like Eliot Ness and Al Capone from the Untouchables as he seems like the 90’s action movie villains and saying that he is the zoological opposite as a bat is a flying mammal and a penguin is a flightless birds
When you did that Justice League threat level video I was wondering if you could do Marvel like there are some Spider-Man villains that have or could be Avengers threat levels.
Darkseid obviously.
I don’t think you should ever mess with Bruce’s motivation to become Batman by having Joe Chill be a hired gun. When you do that, you take away the desperation of Gotham. If everyone is working for a criminal empire, all Batman has to do is take down the empire and he has resolved his own personal motivations.
Crime itself should be Batman’s motivation to suit up every night. He could never solve his parents murder so he devoted himself to solving every other murder he can so nobody ever has to go through what he did.
This also presents some
SERIOUS consequences when you get to Dick as a character. Why does Dick turn out any different than Bruce if solving his parents murder didn’t brighten his outlook on life as it does for most contemporary Dick Grayson stories?
Batman should never resolve his parents murder and that is why he is so obsessive and devoted to crime fighting. He can’t ever truly move on, giving him the strongest will to be Batman.
There are two scarecrows in the thumbnail lol
Damn one snuck in right behind Joker 😂
@@tyrellmultimedia the more crane the better
Personally, i've always thought the court of owls would be the best starting batman villans. it'd be an amazing first step to dismantling gotham's corruption, and since Talon is dick grayson's grandfather (in the new 52 at least) and could introduce robin natrually. this could also tie in with carmine and penguin really well, making it a mystery to figure out how to fix gotham. if you really wanted to, you could start introducing the crazies, and have batman's first insane person be mr freeze (he was in court/city of owls), but that's just my choice.
Yeaaaah, idk about that, The Court has always felt like an endgame enemy for Bats, a threat that blindsides him when he's at a point of his career where he thought he knew Gotham the best after all those years, only to find out he had never known the full truth
I guess telltale got it right in that regard, unless you count Lady Arkham or Falcon.
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I agree with Batman taking on mobsters and crime families first, I agree with Penguin being his first supervillain, I disagree with tying it back to the murder of his parents. Let Joe Chill just be some asshole with a gun, he doesn't need a more expansive backstory or connections.
I didn't really think of it as Joe Chill having anything too in depth story wise. I just saw it as a broke low life who was offered a couple grand to off two rich people.