a lot of good comments., especially the ones telling you NOT to do what this guy did and hook the ground up to the neutral. The previous owner of my home did this and now I'm having to rewire all my switches
As a license electrician do not tie a neutral wire to your ground system unless it is in your main electrical panel where your neutral and your ground are supposed to be bonded. Does this work Yes but he is putting neutral power through his ground system which creates a fire hazard.
in addition to that you'll probably want to start explaining the people that in most smart switches what that neutral wire is actually doing is supplying a small amount of power to the Wi-Fi unit inside of that smart switch which it needs to actually "be smart"... so I speak from experience when I say "turns out if you just ground your neutral wire that becomes a really good way to just ruin your smart switch"
I feel compelled to point out that depending on which smart switch you've purchased what the neutral wire is actually doing is supplying a constant stream of a tiny bit of electricity to the Wi-Fi unit inside the smart switch... and I've made a "grave error in judgment" thinking that I could just install smart switches that have Wi-Fi in them that require a neutral wire and ground out that neutral wire --which ended up just being a really good way to ruin all my smart switches the first time there was a storm...
Yeah I too thought that would work... but it turns out if there's a Wi-Fi unit inside your smart switch and you ground your neutral wire that's a really good way to just ruin your smart switch... lol
correct. and I speak from experience when I say that neutral wire is supposed to be supplying power to the Wi-Fi unit inside the smart switch... and it turns out if you just ground out that neutral? that ends up being a really good way to just ruin your smart switch.
@@christianzagarskas8425 Hi! I have a quick question. I dont have any ground wire to plug in my smart switch, can I nail my ground wire in the box directly?
@@user-un9ne9zw7d first off, a disclaimer "I am just some guy on TH-cam, not an electrician" now thats outa the way: your answer is MAYBE? So, in theory if your box is grounded, sure, go ahead and do some risky shit like "nail a ground wire into the junction box"... that is... if your stuff is not all that important to you - but uh, seriously? if your "fancy electronic wall installed stuff" is even remotely important to you? then hire an electrician to just do it right.
@@motaheri The neutral wires are tied to ground in your electrical box. It's not a matter of causing "electricity depletion to earth", it's a matter of bypassing the proper circuit for that breaker and creating a fire and shock hazard.
Hello I want to install a smart switch and I have 3 cable at the switch and 3 cable at the light will it work for me and does that mean I have a neutral
I have a TP-Link Kasa wifi switch that requires a neutral such as your switch but do not have a neutral in the wall. Isn't it dangerous to bolt the neutral on the wifi switch to the box? Won't that send current through the ground circuit throughout the home? It seems that it did not for you but I'm unsure as to why. Can you explain if this is safe or not? From what I've read you are not supposed to attach a neutral wire to ground ever but perhaps that's just a neutral wire that already exists in the wall? Thoughts? Thanks!
I had the same thought as you see I tried to obtain a voltage off of the box at the end of the video. Here are my thoughts. If that neutral wire represents that of a 120v AC circuit (which I don’t believe it to be that) then 120v would flow through that. However, it would be and is grounded to 0V. Regardless, you will never be a better path to ground than the actual ground. None of that matters though. Most three way switches do not have a common/neutral wire as part of the circuitry. It just doesn’t make sense. I believe this wifi switch runs on DC. Therefore it transforms the incoming AC to DC without being able to complete the circuit with the absence of a neutral/common. I believe this to be the purpose of this wire (to complete the DC circuit). Therefore, the current zeroing out to ground should be low voltage DC. I recommend checking this theory with a multimeter set to DC after wiring.
@@gjdct Well, I decided to try these switches at my other house that has more modern wiring and neutral wires. I still couldn't get it to work I'm not sure why. I was able to power the switch, control the switch turn the switch on and off but I couldn't get power to the actual light. Something must be funky with my wiring in that house. I've put in single pole and three-way switches before without a hitch. I may just buy some smart switches that don't require a neutral wire if I could find some that don't need a smart hub. I like the tp-link casa switches but they're apparently a hassle for some home wiring installs.
@@MaxSpeedMediaLive the smart 3-way switch should be the first in line of the circuit to get consistent power (which you won’t be able to tell without a multimeter and the power on, or trial and error). The second 3-way switch typical only gets power from the travlers and not the black screw (if that make sense). images.app.goo.gl/fLK51np9kdY1NiXp8
@@gjdct wow that shows how much you know about electrical circuits a neutral wire is what allows you to actually have a device operate because it completes your circuit That's why you don't see them in most switches most switches don't require power they are just breaking the power toggling it whereas some lighted dimmers do require being connected to a neutral in order to produce the backlight. There's a specific reason that they say if there's no neutral in your box contact an electrician 😂
I have this same switch and read this, got curious, so did some testing. First, I asked myself what voltage is present on the white wire coming from the switch that I am potentially charging my home's ground with? So... With everything but the neutral connected and power turned back on, I measured O.12 vdc (one tenth of a dead AAA battery) between the open (not connected to anything) end of the neutral (white) wire coming out of the switch, and ground. When connecting the neutral wire to the ground wire in the electrical box, the smart switch performed completely normally with set up and operation exactly according to directions. Next I wanted to know the current draw. Measuring current through that little white wire from the switch to the ground was tricky but I got a high enough impedance shunt that indicated a reliable measurement of 0.2 micro amps. Numbers were verified with the switch and its companion in all four possible states. It is clear that this neutral wire is simply the return for the wifi radio and digital circuitry. It, in no configuration, was in any way capable of applying household voltage or current to ground.
This is a Meross switch. The neutral wire needs to complete circuit. If you are using standard romex 14/3 (required for a 3-way switch) with a red, white, black and ground you would just add this to the commons (white) already tired together. In my situation, I have BX cable with no common. Since the metal sheathing/metal box of the BX act as the ground I made a connection to that which is another way to complete the circuit.
I used this method, i connected my ground and neutral it works! I tested the screw that holds the switch with a non contact tester, there's a current but when i touched it no shock... how is this possible? Is this safe?
Yeah I too thought that would work "I'll just take this neutral wire and ground it". lol. turns out if you have a Wi-Fi device inside that smart switch that needs power that's a really great way to ruin your smart switch...
Sir, Hello From India. My House Has No Grounding But Has Neutral Wire. Can i use my Tplink kasa smart switch by attaching ground wire to metal switch box in brick and cement wall ??
I'm a little confused. The neutral is how the smart switch stays powered to receive on/off signals from your hub even when the device the switch controls is off. So if you are able to power the switch by connecting the neutral wire on the switch to your ground, that means that your ground is carrying enough current to power the switch. But it's my understanding that there's not supposed to be any current on the ground under normal circumstances; it's only supposed to carry current in an emergency. Doesn't that mean that there's something wrong (and potentially dangerous) with your wiring?
There should not be current on the ground. Connecting the neutral and ground anywhere beyond the main panel will put current on the ground. Am I wrong here?
The ground is intended to route AC current in a faulty circuit directly to the ground rather than through a person. In this case, it’s grounding out the DC circuitry of the plug, much like how frame of a car is the negative. Is this up to code? I’m not sure, you’d have to check with your electrician. Is it safe to touch and does it work, yes.
@@gjdct Meant most constructively - If I can use your analogy of the car chassis - you do understand that all the circuits connected to that chassis actually flows the sum of their total current through that chassis to the battery negative, right? Similarly you are flowing the AC current from that device through that conduit back to the panel. But regardless with your situation it's actually NOT grounding out the DC circuitry, you are absolutely grounding the AC Neutral and current WILL flow down that ground line. In this case it happens to be a fairly small current (because that devices electronics is a fairly small load) but that does not make it right. Definitely a code violation. Incidentally about the only Smart Device I know of that does not require a Neutral is a Shelly 1L Relay which can install inside the box and utilizes std switches (you can use the SPDT 3-way switches but they are wired up a little differently to only use one output)
@@decosse01 there are a few no-neutral switches out there these days. I use some Zigbee ones. Hot, Neutral, Ground is all they have and work perfectly.
@@thatsux0rz Read your reply again, particularly your last sentence. 😁 My main part of the response was to highlight that the Ground should not have been used. I'm sure there ARE some devices that do not require N, I was just providing the only example I knew of personally. as an alternative.
Sr am a pilipino.give me a sample por 3way smart switch and 3way non SMart switch 1 bulb control 3way smart switch end non SMart switch Thank u watching in the Philippines
In short, if you have white wires tied together as you would in a modern, correctly wired system, add the neutral to that existing wire nut. If you have metal cables/antiquated not entirely wired correctly system, you can add to a grounded surface which is the metal box.
Oh wow, this just goes to show you that there really is a lot of bad info on the internet. If you have the neutral wire in your other box then simply put the wi-fi switch in the other box but don't ever attach the neutral wire to your metal box!!
You Never ever want to install a WiFi, Zwave, Zigbee, RF/IR, or even a Bluetooth device into a switch/junction metal box unless it’s a last resort situation or the device has a mount/screw for an external antenna. What firmware did you flash your switch with? I wouldn’t imagine your recommend viewers install a device that’s fully dependent on 3rd party cloud services. Both tasmota and esphome have a ton of options that allow to customize a three way switch configuration. You can technically use the one installed 3 way switch to control other devices in the garage with things like long press/double press. For example, You could use the long press to open the garage door while the short press works with the dumb switch as a standard 3 way config.
I did not flash the firmware nor do I have an exterior antenna. In my instance, the metal box has not affected the connectivity of this switch at all. The fact that the front of the metal box is completely open and faces towards the interior of the house (where my router is) I’m sure plays a role.
Your installation breaks a lot of code rules. The purpose the neutral line is so that the power line with the neutral line "power" the electronics of the switch itself. Your check of what line is power is not done by a continuity checker- that just say what lines are connected by the switch based on the position of the switch. To find which is power, use a circuit tester after the switch is removed when the circuit breaker off (the cheap ones with the red/orange neon line in them). FYI most often the black screw on the switch is a power candidate and the brass ones are the traveler but that depends on which 3 way you is first in the circuit so that why you need to really test and you text without the switch so it doesn't make a circuit between the wires itself. Touch one line of the tester wire to the wire and touch the other to a ground.... which you may have via the metal housing. If it lights up, the wire may be the power but it still may not be. So check them all and keep track each wire that lights up. Now go to the other 3 way switch. a flip it once. Go back to the switch you're replacing and test the two power line candidates... if there is one that still lights up... it's the power most likely (unless there is some other wiring issue). You should really check at the other 3way switch as well. if you get a power candidate at each one, somethings not right with your original wiring. By the way, the metal housing even if it is grounded is not a suitable neutral. Neutrals are to be tied together in the big electrical panel, so using the ground to make the switch work, though it works, it's not good practice. If you had GFCIs on the same circuit you could cause them to fail. That's my comments... use at your own risk. I make no guarantees regarding my comments and I accepts no liability for how/if you use them. Thanks.
More like really dumb solution to a dumb problem. People that don't know what they are doing teaching other people how to do really dumb things. Do not connect a neutral wire to ground. Will it work. Yes, but it is against code for a reason. Learn how to fish a wire instead.
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a lot of good comments., especially the ones telling you NOT to do what this guy did and hook the ground up to the neutral. The previous owner of my home did this and now I'm having to rewire all my switches
As a license electrician do not tie a neutral wire to your ground system unless it is in your main electrical panel where your neutral and your ground are supposed to be bonded. Does this work Yes but he is putting neutral power through his ground system which creates a fire hazard.
in addition to that you'll probably want to start explaining the people that in most smart switches what that neutral wire is actually doing is supplying a small amount of power to the Wi-Fi unit inside of that smart switch which it needs to actually "be smart"... so I speak from experience when I say "turns out if you just ground your neutral wire that becomes a really good way to just ruin your smart switch"
Amazing video saved me tons of time thanks
I too have an old house and couldn't figure out what to do with the neutral wire. Thank you for the explanation.
Did it work when you screwed the neutral wire to the box ? I am thinking of giving it a shot myself.
@@Chaptay23 yes, the instructions in this video was the solution.
I feel compelled to point out that depending on which smart switch you've purchased what the neutral wire is actually doing is supplying a constant stream of a tiny bit of electricity to the Wi-Fi unit inside the smart switch... and I've made a "grave error in judgment" thinking that I could just install smart switches that have Wi-Fi in them that require a neutral wire and ground out that neutral wire --which ended up just being a really good way to ruin all my smart switches the first time there was a storm...
This is EXACTLY what I have been looking for all day. Thank you VERY much for sharing!!!
Yeah I too thought that would work... but it turns out if there's a Wi-Fi unit inside your smart switch and you ground your neutral wire that's a really good way to just ruin your smart switch... lol
Great video well done!
You should not use ground as a neutral, it is against code. In addition to being dangerous, and cause circuit imbalances and ground loops
correct. and I speak from experience when I say that neutral wire is supposed to be supplying power to the Wi-Fi unit inside the smart switch... and it turns out if you just ground out that neutral? that ends up being a really good way to just ruin your smart switch.
@@christianzagarskas8425 Hi! I have a quick question. I dont have any ground wire to plug in my smart switch, can I nail my ground wire in the box directly?
@@user-un9ne9zw7d first off, a disclaimer "I am just some guy on TH-cam, not an electrician"
now thats outa the way: your answer is MAYBE?
So, in theory if your box is grounded, sure, go ahead and do some risky shit like "nail a ground wire into the junction box"... that is... if your stuff is not all that important to you - but uh, seriously? if your "fancy electronic wall installed stuff" is even remotely important to you? then hire an electrician to just do it right.
Neutral is a return current from the plant and ground is your emergency excess. Neutral to ground causes electricity depletion to earth.
@@motaheri The neutral wires are tied to ground in your electrical box. It's not a matter of causing "electricity depletion to earth", it's a matter of bypassing the proper circuit for that breaker and creating a fire and shock hazard.
Hello I want to install a smart switch and I have 3 cable at the switch and 3 cable at the light will it work for me and does that mean I have a neutral
Thank you sir u saved my life, was going crazy trying figure out my 3 way switch because I didn't have any neutral
all i needed.....is that a kasa switch?
Hey is it safe every Where and if I want 3way smart switch can you tell me-what to do for the All switch please thank you
I have a TP-Link Kasa wifi switch that requires a neutral such as your switch but do not have a neutral in the wall. Isn't it dangerous to bolt the neutral on the wifi switch to the box? Won't that send current through the ground circuit throughout the home? It seems that it did not for you but I'm unsure as to why. Can you explain if this is safe or not? From what I've read you are not supposed to attach a neutral wire to ground ever but perhaps that's just a neutral wire that already exists in the wall? Thoughts? Thanks!
I had the same thought as you see I tried to obtain a voltage off of the box at the end of the video. Here are my thoughts. If that neutral wire represents that of a 120v AC circuit (which I don’t believe it to be that) then 120v would flow through that. However, it would be and is grounded to 0V. Regardless, you will never be a better path to ground than the actual ground.
None of that matters though. Most three way switches do not have a common/neutral wire as part of the circuitry. It just doesn’t make sense. I believe this wifi switch runs on DC. Therefore it transforms the incoming AC to DC without being able to complete the circuit with the absence of a neutral/common. I believe this to be the purpose of this wire (to complete the DC circuit). Therefore, the current zeroing out to ground should be low voltage DC. I recommend checking this theory with a multimeter set to DC after wiring.
@@gjdct Well, I decided to try these switches at my other house that has more modern wiring and neutral wires. I still couldn't get it to work I'm not sure why. I was able to power the switch, control the switch turn the switch on and off but I couldn't get power to the actual light. Something must be funky with my wiring in that house. I've put in single pole and three-way switches before without a hitch. I may just buy some smart switches that don't require a neutral wire if I could find some that don't need a smart hub. I like the tp-link casa switches but they're apparently a hassle for some home wiring installs.
@@MaxSpeedMediaLive the smart 3-way switch should be the first in line of the circuit to get consistent power (which you won’t be able to tell without a multimeter and the power on, or trial and error). The second 3-way switch typical only gets power from the travlers and not the black screw (if that make sense). images.app.goo.gl/fLK51np9kdY1NiXp8
@@gjdct wow that shows how much you know about electrical circuits a neutral wire is what allows you to actually have a device operate because it completes your circuit That's why you don't see them in most switches most switches don't require power they are just breaking the power toggling it whereas some lighted dimmers do require being connected to a neutral in order to produce the backlight. There's a specific reason that they say if there's no neutral in your box contact an electrician 😂
What would you do if you have a plastic box and no neutral wire?
I have this same switch and read this, got curious, so did some testing. First, I asked myself what voltage is present on the white wire coming from the switch that I am potentially charging my home's ground with? So... With everything but the neutral connected and power turned back on, I measured O.12 vdc (one tenth of a dead AAA battery) between the open (not connected to anything) end of the neutral (white) wire coming out of the switch, and ground. When connecting the neutral wire to the ground wire in the electrical box, the smart switch performed completely normally with set up and operation exactly according to directions. Next I wanted to know the current draw. Measuring current through that little white wire from the switch to the ground was tricky but I got a high enough impedance shunt that indicated a reliable measurement of 0.2 micro amps. Numbers were verified with the switch and its companion in all four possible states. It is clear that this neutral wire is simply the return for the wifi radio and digital circuitry. It, in no configuration, was in any way capable of applying household voltage or current to ground.
The neutral is used for the switch to power itself along with the hot wire and have it's own circuit.
Also... just wait until there is a real short somewhere and what all gets damaged... those switches aren't cheap.
What brand Smart switch is that? I’m running into a similar situation. Thanks for this very helpful video.
This is a Meross switch. The neutral wire needs to complete circuit. If you are using standard romex 14/3 (required for a 3-way switch) with a red, white, black and ground you would just add this to the commons (white) already tired together. In my situation, I have BX cable with no common. Since the metal sheathing/metal box of the BX act as the ground I made a connection to that which is another way to complete the circuit.
How is the switch working?... Meaning, is it still performing okay? Any issues due to the neutral being grounded?
Switch still working well to this day. No issues.
I used this method, i connected my ground and neutral it works! I tested the screw that holds the switch with a non contact tester, there's a current but when i touched it no shock... how is this possible? Is this safe?
Tell me more about the current you’re measuring. AC? DC? Voltage?
@@gjdct AC , i just used a non contact voltage tester klein tools.
@@ac_tv2050 my guess is that you would be getting a low voltage DC current. 5-10 volts.
I’m not an electrician, but it seems to me at 2:49 you used the positive lead on your multimeter as the ground and the negative lead as the positive.
Yeah I too thought that would work "I'll just take this neutral wire and ground it". lol. turns out if you have a Wi-Fi device inside that smart switch that needs power that's a really great way to ruin your smart switch...
Would it work for a 2 way switch
Single pole smart switch? It should, yes.
Switch the circuit of the switch (and light) to one with a proper neutral and ground
Sir, Hello From India.
My House Has No Grounding But Has Neutral Wire.
Can i use my Tplink kasa smart switch by attaching ground wire to metal switch box in brick and cement wall ??
I’m not sure how wiring is in India, but a metal box usually is the ground. Confirm with a multimeter.
@@gjdct Ok…Thank You Sir.
I'm a little confused. The neutral is how the smart switch stays powered to receive on/off signals from your hub even when the device the switch controls is off. So if you are able to power the switch by connecting the neutral wire on the switch to your ground, that means that your ground is carrying enough current to power the switch. But it's my understanding that there's not supposed to be any current on the ground under normal circumstances; it's only supposed to carry current in an emergency. Doesn't that mean that there's something wrong (and potentially dangerous) with your wiring?
Hello, I'm a Little Confused, (odd name but ok) I am Aztec Warrior. The answer to your question is "42". You are welcome.
There should not be current on the ground. Connecting the neutral and ground anywhere beyond the main panel will put current on the ground. Am I wrong here?
The ground is intended to route AC current in a faulty circuit directly to the ground rather than through a person. In this case, it’s grounding out the DC circuitry of the plug, much like how frame of a car is the negative. Is this up to code? I’m not sure, you’d have to check with your electrician. Is it safe to touch and does it work, yes.
@@gjdct Meant most constructively - If I can use your analogy of the car chassis - you do understand that all the circuits connected to that chassis actually flows the sum of their total current through that chassis to the battery negative, right? Similarly you are flowing the AC current from that device through that conduit back to the panel. But regardless with your situation it's actually NOT grounding out the DC circuitry, you are absolutely grounding the AC Neutral and current WILL flow down that ground line. In this case it happens to be a fairly small current (because that devices electronics is a fairly small load) but that does not make it right. Definitely a code violation. Incidentally about the only Smart Device I know of that does not require a Neutral is a Shelly 1L Relay which can install inside the box and utilizes std switches (you can use the SPDT 3-way switches but they are wired up a little differently to only use one output)
@@decosse01 there are a few no-neutral switches out there these days. I use some Zigbee ones. Hot, Neutral, Ground is all they have and work perfectly.
@@thatsux0rz Read your reply again, particularly your last sentence. 😁 My main part of the response was to highlight that the Ground should not have been used. I'm sure there ARE some devices that do not require N, I was just providing the only example I knew of personally. as an alternative.
Um. Neutral to ground? Dude. I hope you've since fixed that.
Sr am a pilipino.give me a sample por 3way smart switch and 3way non SMart switch 1 bulb control 3way smart switch end non SMart switch
Thank u watching in the Philippines
So you just screwed the neutral into the box?
In short, if you have white wires tied together as you would in a modern, correctly wired system, add the neutral to that existing wire nut. If you have metal cables/antiquated not entirely wired correctly system, you can add to a grounded surface which is the metal box.
Oh wow, this just goes to show you that there really is a lot of bad info on the internet. If you have the neutral wire in your other box then simply put the wi-fi switch in the other box but don't ever attach the neutral wire to your metal box!!
You Never ever want to install a WiFi, Zwave, Zigbee, RF/IR, or even a Bluetooth device into a switch/junction metal box unless it’s a last resort situation or the device has a mount/screw for an external antenna. What firmware did you flash your switch with? I wouldn’t imagine your recommend viewers install a device that’s fully dependent on 3rd party cloud services. Both tasmota and esphome have a ton of options that allow to customize a three way switch configuration. You can technically use the one installed 3 way switch to control other devices in the garage with things like long press/double press. For example, You could use the long press to open the garage door while the short press works with the dumb switch as a standard 3 way config.
I did not flash the firmware nor do I have an exterior antenna. In my instance, the metal box has not affected the connectivity of this switch at all. The fact that the front of the metal box is completely open and faces towards the interior of the house (where my router is) I’m sure plays a role.
Your installation breaks a lot of code rules. The purpose the neutral line is so that the power line with the neutral line "power" the electronics of the switch itself. Your check of what line is power is not done by a continuity checker- that just say what lines are connected by the switch based on the position of the switch. To find which is power, use a circuit tester after the switch is removed when the circuit breaker off (the cheap ones with the red/orange neon line in them). FYI most often the black screw on the switch is a power candidate and the brass ones are the traveler but that depends on which 3 way you is first in the circuit so that why you need to really test and you text without the switch so it doesn't make a circuit between the wires itself. Touch one line of the tester wire to the wire and touch the other to a ground.... which you may have via the metal housing. If it lights up, the wire may be the power but it still may not be. So check them all and keep track each wire that lights up. Now go to the other 3 way switch. a flip it once. Go back to the switch you're replacing and test the two power line candidates... if there is one that still lights up... it's the power most likely (unless there is some other wiring issue). You should really check at the other 3way switch as well. if you get a power candidate at each one, somethings not right with your original wiring. By the way, the metal housing even if it is grounded is not a suitable neutral. Neutrals are to be tied together in the big electrical panel, so using the ground to make the switch work, though it works, it's not good practice. If you had GFCIs on the same circuit you could cause them to fail. That's my comments... use at your own risk. I make no guarantees regarding my comments and I accepts no liability for how/if you use them. Thanks.
More like really dumb solution to a dumb problem. People that don't know what they are doing teaching other people how to do really dumb things. Do not connect a neutral wire to ground. Will it work. Yes, but it is against code for a reason. Learn how to fish a wire instead.
Um. Neutral to ground? Dude. I hope you've since fixed that.