This is great advice Paul thanks. I'd just bought acoustic panels and installed them yesterday before I saw this. I had some absorbers on the front wall (behind speakers). I took your advice and moved them all onto the back wall and the improvements have been massive. Thanks very much!
I think the answer is also dependent on the guys room size. Diffusion on the Front wall, Absorption on the Rear wall. I found when doing my room the Ceiling (which is commonly ignored) really helped. Its hugely important and should be treated in a way that corresponds with the room height.
I (and most people) usually don't have the luxury of placing the speakers 1/3rd the way out into the room... so therefore, I am a big fan of putting absorption directly behind, and slightly inside of each speaker, to kill the first reflection off the back wall. My speakers are typically 18-24" from the back wall, so that first reflection really smears the imaging. Absorption behind the speakers has always improved my sound. I'd like to try diffusion at some point.
We all really enjoy Pauls' input. but. I think he's off on this one. I'm a big believer in absorption behind the speakers. PERIOD. It's just irrelevant noise.
Thank you for your soothing videos. I'm proud to earn my living as a professional audio engineer since 95. Most of your videos are general knowledge to me now but I just love your relaxing tone and smooth voice.
Some speakers are designed for near wall or even corner placement. I just got to know my JBL4365 are designed to be in the wall or at least close to it. Made a big difference.
A wall can be solid, but it could be hollow as well, like metal stud or timber framed. Solid heavy walls do not absorb sound. However the hollow types of walls do. Metal stud is designed to do so, and at the same time not to pass it to the next room. The absorption (of mostly lower frequencies) will be greater if your front wall has a hollow build typology.
In practice, it depends on the speakers and the room. Smaller rooms usually benefit with greater absorption behind the speakers if your goal is enhancing front to back depth.
many of us have to use our rooms for more than one activity and often a flat screen TV gets put behind and between the speakers. I should think a covering of some sort over that large glass screen might not be a bad idea.
Logically, yes, but try an experiment: Get yourself a nice, heavy blanket and throw it over the front of the TV, and listen. Now remove it. Do you hear a difference? If so, then yes, it may need it. When I've tried it, in MY room it didn't make a difference.
I always thought the acoustic holograph was formed by the forward radiated sound ( where all the detail is ) So how can much detail exist BEHIND the speakers ? I am aware those IRS MF/HF towers do have a single rear facing MF driver but that alone won't induce much imaging other than just a slight improvement in spaciousness.
It is formed primarily by the sound radiating toward the listener. But the illusion appears to be behind the speakers. In my case the speakers are 4 feet out from the wall. The illusion is behind the wall as if there was no wall. The speakers and the wall are in my room acoustically invisible. If you get up and walk to a speaker, it all of a sudden becomes the source of sound. Go back to the chair and the speakers just disappear and the sound illusion is wide and deep behind the plane of the speakers.
Man, those rows of EMIT's and EMIM's always get to me. I wish someone would design a line-source (or semi-line-source) speaker like those again. Also, this answer is confusing as I see MANY audiophiles with acoustic absorbing panels on that "behind the speakers" wall. Are they all doing it incorrectly? I have some up myself...
My $0.02: I listen mostly to classical music in a medium-sized listening room. I have PSB Stratus Gold speakers. For this type of music, in that room, with those speakers, I have mounted: (a) absorption panels on the side walls at the first/second reflection points, (b) a couple of absorption panels between the speakers on the front wall, and (c) a couple of absorption panels behind the speakers (not directly behind them but offset by a couple of feet). This setup works well for me, as it has improved the imaging and tamed some of the mid-range/treble harshness on some vinyl/CDs. My suggestion would be to experiment a little with your stereo and listening room to see what works. This reflection/absorption stuff is as much an Art as a Science. Your mileage may vary. Happy Listening. 👍🏼
Was it? I heard an answer but not really an explanation. Why shouldn’t we put absorbers (or even diffusers) on the front wall? A lot of people seem to disagree, so some justification is warranted.
hi Paul watched all your videos over the years .what about room placement for speakers designed for close to wall placement .what your take on those type of speakers gettings from scotland .😊😊😊
Great book and cd. Its written very well. Personally l would call it a beginners guide and not an audiophiles guide. Its goes over the basics and if your system is less than $1,500 then l really recommend it. If your someone whose prepared to invest more then l would expect them to know whats in the book already. However the CD is a very useful tool for everyone and a must have for all audiophiles. Especially the center channel bass and depth tracks. When you need to get the balance equal you need to have a track you can trust is exactly in the middle. Big thank you for caring and wanting to make a difference.
Absolutely true Paul, SETUP is a MUST. Thanks to the Audiophile Guide and SACD it worked perfectly in my listening Room. Much appreciate all your efforts to help us reaching the HiFi (High End) Nirvana!!! Greetings, Marc
All my wife’s knick knacks, brick-a-brack, and artwork hanging all over the place makes for great diffusion and absorption. If Santana sounds like they’re playing in the room then she knows it’s been setup properly LOL
After she did some rearranging and then twice my knocking glasses off of shelves behind the speakers, the added sounds of glass breaking is how she knew. So now listening time setup includes taking some glasses down first.
I still struggle with your comments about the singer who should appear behind the loudspeakers. Especially with close miked singers this for me would ruin the whole illusion of a singer appearing in my room and my immersement into the soundstage. A closed miked singer has to have the illusion of being INFRONT of the stereo basis to be believable. Another thing is with ranged miked appearances like singers in opera or classic music in general. They can appear behing the speakers. For me a big part of the sensation of using a highend music system is the possibility of being literally able to give the singer a hand and hearing slightest breathing sounds when he or she is singing. So I would like to hear a more specific comment about singer placement.........
Next week is my time to order your book...😃 Sadly we got in Denmark 50% taxes, so yes it become a quiet an investment...in knowledge...😁 I’ve got the sacd but wait’s to listen till the book arrive...😇🙂
@@trutmaasfull A decent Audi is not bad. I live in Thailand with up to 200% tax on imported cars. And here are still enough Ferraris and Lamborghinis on the roads. I would prefer and Audi or BMW.
Treating the front wall is unnecessary unless you have a dipole speaker with rear radiating transducers. Above about 300 Hz most speakers are radiating forward. Treating the rear wall behind your listening position is essential and critical. In summary: Treat corners with base traps, treat first reflection points in front of speakers and the rear wall behind the listener and this will be optimal in 99% of cases.
This is true for conventional speakers; dipoles don't need treatment at first reflection points, and virtually no dipole likes anything on the wall behind them, that reflection is a key part of what makes dipole sound unique. The only time you should place panels behind dipoles is if you can't have them a proper distance out into the room.
@@VideoArchiveGuy Thx - I appreciate the correction. I guess I never really understood the purpose of dipole speakers except as surround speakers to create a diffuse sound (which they do very well)
@@jeremyhughes6485 Planar dipoles are a magic all to themselves. My main speakers were planars for about twenty-five years, after which I switched to a two different pairs of increasingly better conventional cone speakers. While I loved them, after just six years I had to jump back into the planar universe because I missed that magic so very much. Do they have their downsides? Of course they do, but one of their big benefits is that I got to take all of my acoustic treatments off my walls except for my corner bass traps. With the conventional speakers I was forever adding absorption here and diffraction there and had even thought about treating my ceiling. Not an issue with planar dipoles.
@@VideoArchiveGuy I liked what I have heard from Martin Logan’s mid range but felt they lacked a bit of weight on heavy stuff. Gordon Holt loved the big Soundlabs - but I have never been lucky enough to hear them
Except for bass traps in corners; that can throw things off even with dipoles if you have bass buildup in a corner. But no panels on walls or first reflection points.
Yes but you're using cancellation with being open battle, and as you say room and structure of the walls brick especially has to be damp between the speakers and corners, And of course the ceiling above the speakers and slightly in front. you can put homemade quadratic diffusers behind your speakers what would be tune to your room and coustic issues, by using the quadratic calculator.
Yes but you're using cancellation with being open battle, and as you say room and structure of the walls brick especially has to be damp between the speakers and corners, And of course the ceiling above the speakers and slightly in front. you can put homemade quadratic diffusers behind your speakers what would be tune to your room and coustic issues, by using the quadratic calculator. What Paul alluded to he has on the side of his walls are quadratic diffusers but they're not tuned I don't believe!
Paul, love almost all your videos. but. I think TOTAL ABSORTION behind the speakers is crucial. Reflection behind the speakers is just noise. PERIOD. WORST CASE. A glass window in the imaging space. PERIOD. Sorry.
I love a strong opinion even if I don't agree with it. :) Your argument has many followers. We call this the live-end, dead-end argument and both means have their good and bad points. Glad you found one that matches your tastses.-
Those speakers should have their own postal code.
This is great advice Paul thanks. I'd just bought acoustic panels and installed them yesterday before I saw this. I had some absorbers on the front wall (behind speakers). I took your advice and moved them all onto the back wall and the improvements have been massive. Thanks very much!
The Book is Nice, The CD is awesome and more important.
Very simple, thanks Paul, greetings from the Philippines.
I think the answer is also dependent on the guys room size. Diffusion on the Front wall, Absorption on the Rear wall. I found when doing my room the Ceiling (which is commonly ignored) really helped. Its hugely important and should be treated in a way that corresponds with the room height.
I (and most people) usually don't have the luxury of placing the speakers 1/3rd the way out into the room... so therefore, I am a big fan of putting absorption directly behind, and slightly inside of each speaker, to kill the first reflection off the back wall. My speakers are typically 18-24" from the back wall, so that first reflection really smears the imaging. Absorption behind the speakers has always improved my sound. I'd like to try diffusion at some point.
We all really enjoy Pauls' input. but. I think he's off on this one. I'm a big believer in absorption behind the speakers. PERIOD. It's just irrelevant noise.
Thank you for your soothing videos. I'm proud to earn my living as a professional audio engineer since 95. Most of your videos are general knowledge to me now but I just love your relaxing tone and smooth voice.
Some speakers are designed for near wall or even corner placement. I just got to know my JBL4365 are designed to be in the wall or at least close to it. Made a big difference.
Hi Paul! I'm one of your listener and from Philippines too. 👍
Regardless of speaker type? Maggie’s should have no front wall absorption?
Thanks for saving me money and from over damping sound on an AT Screen LCR setup 👌
A wall can be solid, but it could be hollow as well, like metal stud or timber framed. Solid heavy walls do not absorb sound. However the hollow types of walls do. Metal stud is designed to do so, and at the same time not to pass it to the next room. The absorption (of mostly lower frequencies) will be greater if your front wall has a hollow build typology.
In practice, it depends on the speakers and the room. Smaller rooms usually benefit with greater absorption behind the speakers if your goal is enhancing front to back depth.
Small room. Absorption panels behind listener and leave front wall further from the speaker.
If you have extra cash, qrd panel front wall
Another great video. I have learned so much from your channel. Thank you for all the priceless information.
many of us have to use our rooms for more than one activity and often a flat screen TV gets put behind and between the speakers. I should think a covering of some sort over that large glass screen might not be a bad idea.
Logically, yes, but try an experiment:
Get yourself a nice, heavy blanket and throw it over the front of the TV, and listen.
Now remove it.
Do you hear a difference? If so, then yes, it may need it.
When I've tried it, in MY room it didn't make a difference.
what about rear wall .. like the one behind the listener ?
Thanks!
depends on whether or not the speakers have rear ports
I always thought the acoustic holograph was formed by the forward radiated sound ( where all the detail is )
So how can much detail exist BEHIND the speakers ? I am aware those IRS MF/HF towers do have a single rear facing MF driver but that alone won't induce much imaging other than just a slight improvement in spaciousness.
It is formed primarily by the sound radiating toward the listener. But the illusion appears to be behind the speakers. In my case the speakers are 4 feet out from the wall. The illusion is behind the wall as if there was no wall. The speakers and the wall are in my room acoustically invisible. If you get up and walk to a speaker, it all of a sudden becomes the source of sound. Go back to the chair and the speakers just disappear and the sound illusion is wide and deep behind the plane of the speakers.
Man, those rows of EMIT's and EMIM's always get to me. I wish someone would design a line-source (or semi-line-source) speaker like those again.
Also, this answer is confusing as I see MANY audiophiles with acoustic absorbing panels on that "behind the speakers" wall. Are they all doing it incorrectly? I have some up myself...
It depends upon your room; when I had conventional coned speakers I definitely needed them back there.
Sound like you agree the Bose 901 design
Put some curtains on the front wall and sit in between and in close proximity of your front firing speakers and you will have your magic.
My $0.02: I listen mostly to classical music in a medium-sized listening room. I have PSB Stratus Gold speakers. For this type of music, in that room, with those speakers, I have mounted: (a) absorption panels on the side walls at the first/second reflection points, (b) a couple of absorption panels between the speakers on the front wall, and (c) a couple of absorption panels behind the speakers (not directly behind them but offset by a couple of feet). This setup works well for me, as it has improved the imaging and tamed some of the mid-range/treble harshness on some vinyl/CDs. My suggestion would be to experiment a little with your stereo and listening room to see what works. This reflection/absorption stuff is as much an Art as a Science. Your mileage may vary. Happy Listening. 👍🏼
Great explanation. Thank you!
Was it? I heard an answer but not really an explanation. Why shouldn’t we put absorbers (or even diffusers) on the front wall? A lot of people seem to disagree, so some justification is warranted.
Thanks Paul! One word about rear wall???? Thanks and take care!!!!
hi Paul watched all your videos over the years .what about room placement for speakers designed for close to wall placement .what your take on those type of speakers gettings from scotland .😊😊😊
Do the speakers need stands?
Great book and cd. Its written very well. Personally l would call it a beginners guide and not an audiophiles guide. Its goes over the basics and if your system is less than $1,500 then l really recommend it. If your someone whose prepared to invest more then l would expect them to know whats in the book already.
However the CD is a very useful tool for everyone and a must have for all audiophiles. Especially the center channel bass and depth tracks. When you need to get the balance equal you need to have a track you can trust is exactly in the middle. Big thank you for caring and wanting to make a difference.
Absolutely true Paul, SETUP is a MUST. Thanks to the Audiophile Guide and SACD it worked perfectly in my listening Room. Much appreciate all your efforts to help us reaching the HiFi (High End) Nirvana!!! Greetings, Marc
All my wife’s knick knacks, brick-a-brack, and artwork hanging all over the place makes for great diffusion and absorption. If Santana sounds like they’re playing in the room then she knows it’s been setup properly LOL
After she did some rearranging and then twice my knocking glasses off of shelves behind the speakers, the added sounds of glass breaking is how she knew. So now listening time setup includes taking some glasses down first.
i agree,based on experience wih my room
Paul McGowan: Every audiophile's wife favorite youtuber since 2008!
Different music is mastered with different optimization in terms of room acoustics.
👍
I still struggle with your comments about the singer who should appear behind the loudspeakers. Especially with close miked singers this for me would ruin the whole illusion of a singer appearing in my room and my immersement into the soundstage. A closed miked singer has to have the illusion of being INFRONT of the stereo basis to be believable. Another thing is with ranged miked appearances like singers in opera or classic music in general. They can appear behing the speakers. For me a big part of the sensation of using a highend music system is the possibility of being literally able to give the singer a hand and hearing slightest breathing sounds when he or she is singing. So I would like to hear a more specific comment about singer placement.........
Next week is my time to order your book...😃
Sadly we got in Denmark 50% taxes, so yes it become a quiet an investment...in knowledge...😁
I’ve got the sacd but wait’s to listen till the book arrive...😇🙂
50% tax on a book? Crazy!
@@edgar9651 a supercar in my hometown is an Audi...😂
Lambo’s and ferrari Don’t even Think about it...😢😌
@@trutmaasfull A decent Audi is not bad. I live in Thailand with up to 200% tax on imported cars. And here are still enough Ferraris and Lamborghinis on the roads. I would prefer and Audi or BMW.
Treating the front wall is unnecessary unless you have a dipole speaker with rear radiating transducers. Above about 300 Hz most speakers are radiating forward. Treating the rear wall behind your listening position is essential and critical. In summary: Treat corners with base traps, treat first reflection points in front of speakers and the rear wall behind the listener and this will be optimal in 99% of cases.
This is true for conventional speakers; dipoles don't need treatment at first reflection points, and virtually no dipole likes anything on the wall behind them, that reflection is a key part of what makes dipole sound unique.
The only time you should place panels behind dipoles is if you can't have them a proper distance out into the room.
@@VideoArchiveGuy Thx - I appreciate the correction. I guess I never really understood the purpose of dipole speakers except as surround speakers to create a diffuse sound (which they do very well)
@@jeremyhughes6485 Planar dipoles are a magic all to themselves.
My main speakers were planars for about twenty-five years, after which I switched to a two different pairs of increasingly better conventional cone speakers.
While I loved them, after just six years I had to jump back into the planar universe because I missed that magic so very much.
Do they have their downsides? Of course they do, but one of their big benefits is that I got to take all of my acoustic treatments off my walls except for my corner bass traps. With the conventional speakers I was forever adding absorption here and diffraction there and had even thought about treating my ceiling.
Not an issue with planar dipoles.
@@VideoArchiveGuy I liked what I have heard from Martin Logan’s mid range but felt they lacked a bit of weight on heavy stuff. Gordon Holt loved the big Soundlabs - but I have never been lucky enough to hear them
Dipoles should have *no* front wall treatment!
Except for bass traps in corners; that can throw things off even with dipoles if you have bass buildup in a corner.
But no panels on walls or first reflection points.
Keep talking about your book. In fact, occasionally remind us of your other book too!
Yes but you're using cancellation with being open battle, and as you say room and structure of the walls brick especially has to be damp between the speakers and corners,
And of course the ceiling above the speakers and slightly in front. you can put homemade quadratic diffusers behind your speakers what would be tune to your room and coustic issues, by using the quadratic calculator.
Um... I think he's asking about the other rear wall. Not Paul's rear wall.
Please ship my regenerater
Yes but you're using cancellation with being open battle, and as you say room and structure of the walls brick especially has to be damp between the speakers and corners,
And of course the ceiling above the speakers and slightly in front. you can put homemade quadratic diffusers behind your speakers what would be tune to your room and coustic issues, by using the quadratic calculator.
What Paul alluded to he has on the side of his walls are quadratic diffusers but they're not tuned I don't believe!
yeah, early reflection directly behind the speaker - what a nonsense! and I want the singer in the middle of the room instead behind it
wat a sweetheart!
🇵🇭😘
Paul, love almost all your videos. but. I think TOTAL ABSORTION behind the speakers is crucial. Reflection behind the speakers is just noise. PERIOD. WORST CASE. A glass window in the imaging space. PERIOD. Sorry.
I love a strong opinion even if I don't agree with it. :) Your argument has many followers. We call this the live-end, dead-end argument and both means have their good and bad points. Glad you found one that matches your tastses.-