I wish there was a multiplier on the thumbs up! Psychopaths pass polygraph tests and because they can pass the test they are dismissed as suspects. Only a person who feels guilt for doing something wrong, like lying, might be suspect but feeling guilt about something does not necessarily equate to criminality.
My Dad is retired from the USMC. He's always told us that polygraphs are junk science. That 50% of their investigative value lies in observing how a suspect reacts to being asked to take the "test" and the other 50% has to do with making someone so overwhelmed with anxiety that they slip up and say something incriminating.
I feel it was premeditated murder. The phone call lying about the Bobby's dinner, lying about babysitting and having a knife. Not to mention, once Kirsten got away the first time, she chased her down again.
@@michaelterango3074I always thought it was odd that she claimed that she used the knife in the car. You’d cut your vegetables to bring w/ you in the car. Total lie….
@@michaelterango3074I don't understand how the sister's story was actually believed by a judge! You have to be relatively intelligent to get through the schooling required to earn a law degree and also to pass the BAR exam. You can't become a judge if you're a total moron. Yet this judge not only took the sister's ridiculous story to be credible, but also failed to connect the act of hunting down the victim after she initially got away with being evidence of premeditated murder. There are elderly women in prison serving 40+ years to life for killing violent husbands in self defense after suffering brutal and systematic abuse at his hands for 10, 15, 20 or more years. And this little psychopath creates a murder plan that includes multiple elements / steps, lures her victim out to get her alone, pursues the victim when she initially manages to get away, stabs the victim until she's incapacitated, delivers two more stab wounds to her back after she's already down, flees the scene and lies to everybody in her life every single day until she's caught. And the victim, though probably an entitled, snobby, arrogant bully, was not abusing Bernadette. Also she was just 16! She murdered a 16 year old girl who's worst offense was being a teenage snob, the death was violent, the victim suffered, and the whole thing was obviously premeditated. And she was out in 7 years at the age of just 23. I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH SO MANY ASPECTS OF THE US LEGAL SYSTEM!!
I remember the hurt from being laughed at for being poor when I was a kid; it still angers me to think about it. But even so, the idea of committing murder over it is unimaginable.
My husband died when our son was a baby so obviously for a while there money was going to be a bit of a struggle, especially when he as young. Our son went to a school in which the majority of the kids where from quite well off parents. I remember being thoroughly irked when my son told me that some of the kids were mocking his shoes for being cheap and from a store here known to sell cheap stuff. I did tell my son that those kids making fun of him haven't achieved anything at all as it's their parents who have the money and not the kids. While we know that's true it's still irksome though that they can be so smug about other peoples money like it makes them more special.
Orinda in the 1980s was a particularly toxic environment, being one of the wealthiest towns in the country, and completely status driven. I grew up in Clayton, CA in the 80s, same age as these girls, and I remember completely relating to Bernadette at the time. I was also the youngest in a large Catholic family. I was never going to be popular or accepted into anything in school because I wasn’t able to afford designer clothes. Luckily for me I found New Wave and Punk music, developed my own personal style, and eventually became cooler than the “popular” kids. But when I was 15, youngest in a large working class family and surrounded by wealthy people, and reading about this story in the news, I definitely related to the perpetrator and could almost understand why this would happen.
😢😢 I'm so sorry. I know when you're in the situation at the time being bullied can be totally devastating. I've always bristled up whenever I hear the now-popular "It gets better" advice aimed at bullied teens. 20 years out of high school, I'm certainly aware the advice rings true... that it does get better... it does. But I remember being that age. "It gets better" wasn't around 20 years ago, but when I imagine being a kid in the middle of such a crisis and hearing "It gets better" all I can think about is how close to zero help it would actually be in the moment, hearing that.
@@Kirk_Hammett_Bit_Me G-d bless you for stepping up. You were courageous then. Although I am certainly not advocate of violence, you rescued a victim in high school and were a true friend, showing heroism then. Bullying should not be brooked. Then you suffered for your act of protection, and made a lifelong friend.
I live in Orinda, and my home is located in close proximity to the place where Kirsten was tragically stabbed and discovered by our next door neighbor, Emilio (“the neighbor”), who is now in his mid 90’s. Emilio is such a sweet and kind man and a very captivating storyteller. Listening to his recollection of finding her that night is bone chilling. Regrettably, he couldn't rescue her, but I believe that in those moments before she passed, he provided comfort and did his utmost to ease her suffering.
I grew up in Orinda and lived close to the location of the murder. I was younger, still in elementary school at the time, but I remember the case clearly because it was so close to us and it took so long to be solved. It shook the whole town.
Kirsten's poor mom. Imagine having to live with knowing that you accidentally helped set your own child up for murder. That would destroy any mother. I hate that Bernadette involved her in her sick plan. Horrific.
That's a really good observation. I hadn't caught the significance of that element of Bernadette's CLEARLY PREMEDITATED crime. (What a doofus of a judge!) I watched my aunt and uncle deal with losing their 17 year old son in a car accident in 1997. Kirstin's mom obviously did nothing wrong, but you are correct to say involving her in the rouse to lure Kirstin out that night probably haunted her every day of her life. It's a particularly cruel element to add to an already vicious and senseless murder. In my cousin's case, his dad (my uncle) had scolded him over something the night he died in the car accident. My cousin left the house in a huff over the argument and my uncle has blamed himself for the past 26 years. Even though a) my cousin was killed on his way home, 4 hours after the argument (meaning he didn't die because his dad angered him and he drove away carelessly because he was mad) and b) he 100% would've driven that exact road at that exact time that night regardless of getting into it with his Dad. He had plans already. All the fight impacted was that my cousin headed out to meet his friends probably 10 or 15 minutes sooner than he would have otherwise left the house. But understanding intellectually that nothing you did makes you at fault for your child's death is something very different from how you feel about your role in the death. My uncle KNOWS nothing he did led to losing his son that night. He knows it. But that awareness has had zero effect whatsoever on the sad reality that he suffers intense guilt over it to this day. I'm certain anyone who ever spoke to Kirsten's mother offered intensive reassurance that she didn't do anything wrong. I'm also fairly certain those words did absolutely nothing to make her feel better. It's a very tragic crime, all around.
@@icturner23 The sentence of nine years for pre-meditated murder was an outrage. I think that Bernadette should have been tried as an adult and sentenced to life in prison without parole.
I actually had a friend who admitted to feeling guilty for her daughter’s murder because the young girl picked a boyfriend like her dad and the boyfriend killed her.
HEATHERS! I was in high school at the same time. In my high school, the faculty cheered on the bullies and the "popular" kids. Everybody else "lacked character." Real classist suburban garbage.
Unfortunately this type of jealousy is quite common among teenagers. Popularity contests are superficial pursuits that speaks to much deeper issues such as feelings of insecurity or inadequacy. Thank you, Dr. Grande.❤
I think they took into consideration the fact that Bernadette herself was a teen girl. Personally, I feel she should have served more time because it doesn't seem like she's very remorseful for what she did- but it's so common for child/teenaged killers to get out the moment they are twenty one. There's a woman in Canada who came up with the plan to murder her entire family which was carried out by her and her boyfriend. I think she should still be rotting away in prison because not once has she ever expressed remorse for what she did. She committed the murders when she was 12 and got out when she was 21 or 22. So many people think that this particular monster should be given a chance when there are so many others saying that she needs to still be in prison.
@@derkeheath5172 I almost purposely failed a prep school after sophomore year and then slept through my second HS and had a permanent girlfriend by junior year (whom I'm still married to 54 years later) and I still have problems speaking to pretty girls even at my age ....go figure.
Wise words. Yet many are trapped in that mindset, as their pinnacle of identity development and may NEVER develop a broader world view nor an alternative life path.
No what she was afraid of was Kirsten would tell everyone what a whack job Bernadette for her actions of faking a dinner out just to get Kirsten to be her friend.
I agree. It's obviously ridiculous in hindsight, but I can recall at least 5-6 different instances during high school where I was convinced my life was ruined forever. Being a teenager is a crazy time. You have many of the freedoms of an adult, you are capable of keeping up with a busy schedule, you can develop deep emotional attachments to friends and significant others, you can fall in love, you're beginning to take on real and important responsibilities... but you are also functioning via a brain that's not fully developed, hormones that can be all over the place, very little to zero real life experience, and no idea how to regulate your emotions once they've reached a certain intensity. Honestly, it's somewhat perplexing that we've all managed to live through that particular stage of life.
The talk about "not making the cheerleading team" is spot on. i remember the girls took that very seriously. One girl who was the captain junior year had a falling out with a couple of the girls and didnt even make the squad her senior year. Highschool girls can be vicious. I dont think any of them got murdered though......awesome video!!
I think you made an excellent point about the amount of time that Bernadette had before committing the stabbing. Had it been a crime of passion, she had time to rethink her actions. You also mentioned that Bernadette may’ve had romantic interest in Kirsten, and I think that’s plausible. At the very least, she was obsessed. Given Bernadette’s obsession with social status and acceptance, I can see how her being rejected lead to her irrationally coming to the conclusion that had to kill Kirsten to keep whatever she expressed a secret. Whether Kirsten was a nice person or not is irrelevant to me, because she still didn’t deserve to be murdered. Even if she had been a vicious bully, why did Bernadette isolate herself with someone who was supposedly cruel to her? I believe that the murder was premeditated, and my heart is still broken for Kirsten’s family.
I worked in three High Schools. One large school in a fairly small town, One new school in another small town with a small population of students and the third a trade school in a large city. None of these factors made a difference. It's all about popularity and social influence. Parental involvement with your children, their friends and other parents, teachers, etc. seem to be a deciding factor when it comes to raising children.That and a lot of luck.
Happens for women across the US everyday. They get like 2 or 3 real fuck-ups before they’re held accountable for anything seriously. Men, we aren’t as lucky. We get half a baby fuck up and get more time than that. My brother got 14 years in prison for strong arming an Xbox 360 off a guy back in the day. Justice system my ass.
@@cat-e2p5bYeah, Kirsten sounds like an entitled, arrogant brat for sure. But for all her negative traits and vile bullying behavior, she certainly never killed anybody.
@@TheLastHappyPlace id say the girl rotting in the ground after being murdered and her family would disagree with the sentence being "just". Absolutely ridiculous and sickening she got out, she should STILL be rotting in prison
Totally correct.. this was completely premeditated. I dont know how the judge could even keep a straight face when saying otherwise. As Dr Grande pointed out, Bernadette literally chased her down in a car and then on foot.
@@carlotapuigno one gets bullied near as much as the pretty awkward girl. Nothing fuels bullying like jealousy. Sorry but she probably wasn't that bullied because she looked safe and common. That's just the truth.
This is why I don't have many friend. Only few that I can trust. You have to learn, observe, and sense with pure instinct, who hates your existence and envy of what you have/possess. Once you figure out who hates you for existing, you can avoid them.
The 1994 movie is appalling. They try to paint the killer as the true victim. Even if Kirsten was a bit snobby (not saying she definitely was), she most likely would have grown out of that. But she was robbed of growing up!
I like the observation of turning schools into popularity contests. Most if not all public schools allow students to dress in regular everyday clothing as opposed to uniforms. One psychological aspect behind the wearing of uniforms is that it eliminates the competition factor to a large degree, but not altogether. Wearing uniforms somehow gives the students a conscious sense of a level playing field. Even if underprivileged parents cannot afford to buy their kids high range attire, if they value the educational opportunity, they can make the necessary sacrifice to buy good uniforms for their kids.
I often wondered what would have happened if my school had had uniforms, it it would have given most kids a sense of belonging to the school instead of a separation.
As a former teacher, I am sorry to say that academic achivment can too be turned into a contest. Popular or otherwise! But I agree with you, schools cannot let up on vigilance, to keep the constant one-upmanship in check, that students, parents and even teachers, heck, all of humanity are so fond of, despite hating it so! It's difficult! *sigh*
And another girl who was initially blamed went through hell & had to leave the school. She never got an apology from anyone & fell into substance abuse.
Hey, Dr. Grande! Still watching all of your videos and loving them. Came to the comment section to *THANK YOU* for finally covering this case; I had been asking you sporadically to cover this particular case. I’ve delved so deeply into this one that I could have assisted you with details, lol. But, I’ve always pondered the deep psychology behind Bernadette (and that particular community, honestly…) and I’ve always been so curious as to what they discussed/what took place in that Pinto. Dr. Grande (and anyone reading this), may you have an amazing 2024! Rest peacefully, Kirsten Costas. PPS: Brilliant dry quips per usual, Todd. 😅
Dr.Todd, I really enjoy your videos, and understand your analysis of cases. Last night, I was watching one of my favorite shows on TV. INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY. I closed my eyes for a few minutes, and I heard a familiar voice! Lo and behold, it was you! I felt like I knew you from watching your videos. Hope to see you on more shows!!
I can still remember things lots of kids went through in high school. It was miserable. Many kids from wealthy families attended there and they ran everything. I was glad to graduate and get away from the snobbery and constant status symbolism.
Hey Todd! We have seen often in your episodes your criticism against criminal profilers. Many of us wonder why. How about making a special episode exemplifying instances where the profilers got it all wrong and why? That‘d be super cool :)
As i mentioned to another comment i don't believe either. Different culture, upbringing,autistic people,etc might sound or seemed guilty. Me when i am telling something I don't look the other person in the eyes, I don't lie i just try to concentrate. I have lied to cops ver successfully,but i acted guilty in another incident for no reason I am bilingual hopefully my comment makes sense.
Profilers are not even a step up from self-proclaimed psychics. Everything a profiler contributes is so generic and interpretations so malleable that no matter who is proven guilty, the "profile" fits. Such profiles are, in essence, "answers in search of questions." We can go through the writings of Nostradamus and find the same pattern. How many world events would a given quatrain fit?
@@SeaBlue1976 oh exactly! I have a very slight lazy eye that sometimes doesn't look in the same direction as the other, especially when I'm tired. Not super apparent to anyone unless they know about it already, but I am self conscious sometimes, and if I realize it's not focusing properly, I will quickly look away so that the other person won't notice. I never thought about it before, but it would probably make me look guilty as sin if I did that around law enforcement. 🤣
I already know of a case...the Green River serial killer. An FBI profiler was brought in and seemed to be actively aiding and abetting this monster. He was eventually apprehended by an astute local cop.
@@lizbensoncox so true my friend,u cannot just decide especially in an interrogation room if someone acts guilty ,we wouldn't need courts,just cops Behaviour experts and profilers telling me nothing, debunked
Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! Your true fans love your humour and sarcasm. January 9 is National Apricot Day, Feast of the Black Nazarene, Remembrance Day for Rauld the Strong, National Cassoulet Day, National Static Electricity Day, Balloon Ascension Day, and Play God Day.
Dr. Grande, you sure are getting popular.....Seen you on the episode of "Who the Bleep did I marry (the babysitter killer) last night! Congratulations on your stardom ⭐
Dr Granda, I really enjoy your channel and your opinion on the cases. Just wondering if you could do a video on Arial Castro who held 3 Cleveland girls hostage for over 10 yrs.
I'll second this request! I would really like to hear this particular analysis given that case occurred back when I was 12... I guess I just feel connected to it as I live quite close to the area.❤
I am so glad this was posted! I was wondering when this would end up covered. Bernadette deserved prison for life. She should NEVER have been released!
I live in this area, Orinda is extremely wealthy mixed with middle class. Its a town you dont want to be middle class in. Which tbh is most of the bay area. Orinda is ruled by the sheriffs dept, as are all 5 wealthy towns in contra costa county. The contra costa county sheriffs dept does not arrest "residents" of these towns. They have extremely "low" *cough* rates of crime because of this.
@@deborahblackvideoediting8697 Exactly. If you don't ever arrest anyone, and keep saying "it's your word against their's" then the crime rate stays low. the sheriffs out here are a joke. I know it gets over-used in this age, but the sheriffs out here are corrupt and derelict. One town in the county had 50% of its officers sidelined in a current fbi investigation. (Antioch PD)
Did anybody else ever see the Lifetime movie (back in the 90s or so 😂) based on this movie with Tori Spelling?!? Never knew about the actual story, thanks Dr. G!
Schools have always been & remain today just a big "popularity contest". Thankfully I survived high school in the late 80s by being blissfully invisible. My own teen daughter chose to attend a special STEM High School where academics were the main focus & most of the drama teens experience in high school didn't exist there. My son, who is a senior this year has had a rough High School experience...he is very happy he is almost done with it.
i specifically remember when I was in grade school my classmate laughed at my thin plastic pencil case because it had a hole on the bottom, it is amazing how a person rudeness or kindness can have a lasting impression. We should choose Kindness 🙏❤️
I agree with you. I knew them both and was in their class. I just need to say this because Kirsten's name has been dragged through the mud. From everything I remember about Kirsten, she was very sweet. I never saw either of them bully anyone, which isn't to say they didn't. I just never saw it. I didn't know Bernadette as well, but she was in the same clique and never spoke to me because I wasn't popular.
When I was in high school I resented the entire hierarchy of popularity and complained about it, but there were always adults that assured me when I grew up that such high school rules would mean nothing, and the popular people would not mean much as adults in our working worlds. But what I found as an adult is there is still always this hierarchy of popularity in any group whether at the office, at sports clubs, at any social or academic group, anywhere there is a group of people, and mostly the basis of popularity remains the same; first it is looks, those people that look the most beautiful or handsome draw alot of friends and invitations to parties, then of course comes money, those who didn't necessarily look good but showed off their money with clothing, cars, bragging about work position, etc., then if the group really has sensible people, the one's with great personalities and senses of humor, who deserve to be popular, may become popular with the group. But it always continues, the desire to be popular and liked; as it seems like a survival instinct to have the herd like you so they can protect you at a time of need I suppose. I don't know if the items that make someone seem popular will ever change. I think since humans have existed, the best looking ones (whatever is considered good looking for that group) is always the most popular. I don't think that will change, it appears to be a natural instinct to gravitate towards attractive people. I have even seen babies smile more and get more bubbly at the better looking human being, just on instinct. As Keats said "A thing of beauty is a joy forever" I guess. I've always been somewhere in the middle, not ugly but not gorgeous so I never resented society's favoritism over looks but I still believe it is so superficial given that I have known some really stupid, annoying, mean-spirited human beings who looked beautiful. And it is so sad that people would kill over something so superficial.
I've observed the same and I really believe the real privileged class in America is the good-looking. I'm actually glad I'm not part of it because while they live according to their lived experience they don't live in reality and it adds a layer of difficulty for them to attain actually virtuous traits. As a young adult I studied abroad and two of my roommates were beautiful girls from eastern Europe and I was surprised to find they did not have the arrogance and haughtiness that pretty girls in the US have. It really made me think about it. My bf is chubby and middle-aged now. As a child he was overweight but then as a young man he was in excellent shape and very good-looking. He says people treat you very differently and want you for everything (friendship, romance, jobs, etc) when you're pretty. He tries to be equally friendly with everybody.
The desire to be popular is an extrovert thing... people who enjoy their own company typically don't care about that kind of stuff. For many, being part of a herd is totally undesirable. But a lot of people are conditioned to care what other people think.
Thank you for this analysis. I watched "Death of a Cheerleader" (or "A Friend To Die For") and I hated how they made Kirsten's character into some stereotypical "mean girl" who somehow deserved her death and Bernadette's character into some poor, put-upon "victim" who we're supposed to root for. It's a sick, sad case. Rest in peace.
From the description of Bernadette I thought she was going to look very unattractive but honestly I don't think she was. Her envy and jealousy got the better of her, she took that to the extreme and murdered her idol. Reminds me of my pre teen years, looking up to an older better looking girl and wishing I could be like her and have her confidence, whereas I was shy and wanted blending into the scenery 😂
I have carried a couple sets of silverware, butter and steak knives included, in my glove box for when I’m eating lunch or dinner on the road. I’ve done that for at least 50 years and never once thought it to be strange. It started when I had braces on and had to cut my food and plastic utensils just didn’t work.
This is the tragedy of "high school clique culture". It is sad that Bernadette Protti felt such despair at not being on a cheerleader that she resorted to murder.
@@gusgrizzel8397, true.. and there are far often cases where "the former popular girl" is the killer. Multiple episodes of *_Deadly Women_* have segments like that.
Ahree. I didn’t make cheerleader plus I was bullied for a year by two witches and then the following year I was bullied by jerk guys. But I never committed murder. This was in the 80’s too. Im the same age as them
"The Tragedy of Mimetic Desire"- Professor Girard and the Bloody Deeds of Bernadette Protti Whenever we spend time reflecting on human actions and human behaviors we make judgements based on first principles. Dr. Grande has his first principle: "do no harm"-a sort of Hippocratic Oath and Professor Girard had his: "desire is always learned by watching others desire something, not for the thing itself." We can immediately apply this second principle to the case of Bernadette Protti. What did Bernadette want? She wanted all the things that Kirsten Costas had. No one "wanted" the things that the Protti family enjoyed. At least not in this scenario. Someone living in the slums of Oakland might actually find a reason to envy Bernadette. When desire becomes aware of itself in someone's mind it then becomes a driving force dissolving one's appreciation of the things one actually has. So then you see, murder becomes the only way to relieve the hell of desiring what others desire. Thank you.
I'm glad you did this video,I had only seen the movie and it made the murder victim look like this terrible person, which if she was no reason to stab her anyway,in the movie it showed the murderer in a good light ,kind of strange,I guess they just went based on what the killer said, which is unfair because the victim obviously couldn't take up for herself to say what happened
Bernadette Protti changed her name to Jeanette Tomanka. She moved to Oklahoma and received a degree in nursing. She also writes/ edits medical textbooks. She now lives in Northwest Oregon with her husband.
Dr. Grande, thank you for your analysis. I find your assessment accurate and well-thought-out. The goal-oriented behavior of the subject starting from the point of grievance all through the investigation and the trial, even in the attempts to blur the signs of premeditation, is quite disturbing and seems to have been downplayed by the system.
Interesting video as always Dr. Grande! For some reason this reminded me of the story of Kaitlyn Arquette, who was killed here in Albuquerque in 1989. Her mother was the famous young adult fiction author Lois Duncan.
Hey Dr. Grande! I’m wondering if you could analyze the case of Cedric Marks in Killeen Texas? He was recently given a death sentence after being found guilty of double homicide (both of which his victims I knew), and is suspected of having also killed a couple other people back in Oklahoma several years ago. I hope today finds you well, and God bless from Texas!
@@Reclaim-the-Rainbow not in Killeen, but in a very close-by town to it! (apologies for being vague, i just don’t wanna accidentally doxx myself online or anything lol)
I saw the movie with Kellie Martin and Tori Spelling. Kellie did an excellent job playing the part of the murderer. Difficult to understand why someone would be that jealous of someone else. Live your own life.
I knew them both and was in their class. I'm just going to keep saying this when someone brings up that movie (and it's probably going to annoy everyone): Please do not believe that garbage. Both girls are portrayed as very different from who they were. The killer in that was based on a girl who was severely bullied, not on Bernadette. From everything I remember about Kirsten, she was very sweet. I didn't know Bernadette as well, but she was in the same clique and never spoke to me.
@@ssdfgardiner1233thank you for telling the truth! I am tired of people saying Kirsten bullied Bernadette. She was jealous and killed her due to being jealous. She should still be in prison if you ask me!
I always thought that this movie villianized the victim, Kirstin, and tried to shine a light of innocence on Bernadette. I myself was painfully shy and from a poor family, I was bullied a lot but I never thought that high school bullies need to die. I was hesitant to watch this video but I'm glad that I saw it through to the end, thank you for making it
Unfortunately, if you have a group of teenaged girls in any area, you are going to see a popularity contest going on. What makes one popular may vary a bit from different decades (cheerleading is almost always the crowning feature of popularity, but today's teens also follow who has the most involved gender expression and the most ridiculous new "name") and in different regions (city vs rural; midwest vs east; weslthy area vs lower middle class; etc). I don't see this changing anytime soon.
I wonder why Kirsten didn't just stay at home when she got dropped off. If only she hadn't decided to walk to her friend's house she would have been safe. Maybe she didn't have a key to get in when her parents were away. It's crazy how one tiny insignificant decision can change your whole life or even end it without you even being aware of it.
Kirsten’s parents were not home yet, so I’m guessing she didn’t think it was safe there to be alone at her house so she was trying to get her neighbors that was at home.
Kirsten couldn’t get into her house bc she didn’t have the keys. Her parents were away at her brothers baseball game. She was not walking to a friends house. That’s why Kirsten headed to her neighbors house to stay until they got back but as she was approaching her neighbors front door is when Bernadette attacked her.
Painfully obvious that this was premeditated. Involving Kirsten’s mother in this plan is demonic. Maybe she won’t kill again, but where is the justice? Rip Kirsten 💔
As a native San Franciscan, I can confirm that Orinda is one of those really creepy rich suburbs that every major metro area has, where pressure to conform and be "popular" is intense. It's the pretty much the opposite of the free-spirited, open-minded environment where I grew up in The City. I've only been there very briefly maybe twice in my life that I can remember (and I'm pretty sure I was only at the BART station one of those times), but that place seriously gives me uncanny Truman Show vibes, so I hope I never have to go there again for any reason.
I studied this case a lot... An article was written about Bernadette called "Borderline" but I honestly disagree, I believe she is a sociopath: I see BPD individuals as capable of feeling remorse, Bernadette still to this day doesn't feel any remorse for what she did, she described herself as a 'life hacker' cause she changed her identity, she is now Jeannette Tomanka, that is why she was able to pass the polygraph test... Other students were accused for this brutal murder and she allowed that to happen hoping to get away with it. If the FBI didn't make that matching profile we probably wouldn't know who the killer was, that's how far she went to cover her actions. Also there is no proof Kirsten bullied her, Bernadette was actually described as popular, even though she didn't become a cheerleader, she was part of the popular group, she was obsessed with Kirsten and lured her out of her house under false pretenses, just try to imagine if a guy did that not a girl, people would have a very different opinion about this case! They wanted to sensationalize the case with the mean girl Hollywood stereotype but the sad reality is that she was a psycho obsessed with her poor classmate... I feel bad for her neighbours honestly, imagine if she doesn't take meds, I think she could kill again or she might have done it, before she was released she was evaluated as dangerous, she has a trigger in her mind that can snap whenever she doesn't get what she wants from a relationship or a situation. More importantly I feel bad for Kirsten, her family and friends...
I was bullied from literally the time I entered, pre-K up until I left school because of the bullying at age 16 in my junior year. I had one more year and it was so bad that I could not take it anymore. Throughout those years I would have thoughts creep in occasionally about hurting others, but Those thoughts went away just as fast as they came in because I could never hurt another human being. No matter how much they hated and hurt me. And as a kid and as a teen I figured they bullied me because I was worth nothing because I was the things they said, and the only person I was most likely to hurt was myself. I would love to be able to go back and do it again with the confidence I have now but even then, feeling like the dirt beneath some filth pot’s fingernails I never could’ve killed someone just because I wished I had what they had. There is truly something wrong with Bernadette. Something in her head, in her entire being wasn’t and may still not be right.
Thank you! I agree. Just to be clear, I was in their class and knew both of them. I feel like Kirsten's name has been dragged through the mud. I never saw her bully anyone. I was unpopular, and she was sweet to me while I found Bernadette to be quite snobby. I was bullied, too, by the way, but I usually had a smart insult ready to fight back with--not always, though. I think it is still very common. It's good to teach kids not to bully--nobody stopped it back then--but I think it would be good to teach kids how to deal with a bully, too. Glad to hear you got your well-deserved confidence!
I've seen a number of pictures of Bernadette Protti and she looked quite attractive, imo. I don't know where these [only ordinary looking] descriptions came from, but I'm guessing from other 16-year-old female students that thought they were better than her because their families had more money than hers.
I agree. I was surprised when I first saw pictures of the girls, after watching the movie on lifetime for years. IMO Bernadette was prettier than Kirsten. But I guess their personalities had a lot to do with their popularity and what not.
Unsweetened Most don’t look like Kim and Beyoncé but the point is BP wasn’t as unattractive as some people thought she was. She just didn’t have confidence and wanted to be Kirsten
I don’t understand how the judge concluded that the proper conviction was second degree murder. In my opinion, this crime was clearly premeditated. I think it was premeditated and carefully planned from the beginning.
I can so remember the feelings of competition in school. Even in Band the first players in a section( clarinets, flutes etc.) were envied! Never mind the insanity over becoming a cheerleader! 🏈📣👗
Unbelievable what will trigger someone to murder 😢, My mother insisted that we move into a neighborhood where everyone had more money than we did, my sister and I made friends with 2 other sisters ( they had a Lot of money) and during our younger years the 4 of us were inseparable, until suddenly in junior high school they started running with the “ in crowd “ and we were dropped from their friends circle, it was very hurtful but life goes on.
Thanks for covering this case Dr. Grande. I've always been interested in it since I saw the movie in the 90s. I'd be cool if you could cover the Missy Avila murder, which was also dramatized into a movie by Lifetime.
I’ll never get sick of hearing you call polygraphs “pseudoscientific nonsense”
I wish there was a multiplier on the thumbs up! Psychopaths pass polygraph tests and because they can pass the test they are dismissed as suspects. Only a person who feels guilt for doing something wrong, like lying, might be suspect but feeling guilt about something does not necessarily equate to criminality.
My Dad is retired from the USMC. He's always told us that polygraphs are junk science. That 50% of their investigative value lies in observing how a suspect reacts to being asked to take the "test" and the other 50% has to do with making someone so overwhelmed with anxiety that they slip up and say something incriminating.
Definitely junk science. Laughed at by the rest of the world.
But if you refuse to take one you are presumed guilty.
It’s more of a psychological tool, used to get suspects to talk. That’s why they’re inadmissible in court.
I feel it was premeditated murder. The phone call lying about the Bobby's dinner, lying about babysitting and having a knife. Not to mention, once Kirsten got away the first time, she chased her down again.
she owes her sister big time. the sister bailed her by saying the knife was hers, otherwise first degree
@@michaelterango3074I always thought it was odd that she claimed that she used the knife in the car. You’d cut your vegetables to bring w/ you in the car. Total lie….
@@michaelterango3074I don't understand how the sister's story was actually believed by a judge! You have to be relatively intelligent to get through the schooling required to earn a law degree and also to pass the BAR exam. You can't become a judge if you're a total moron. Yet this judge not only took the sister's ridiculous story to be credible, but also failed to connect the act of hunting down the victim after she initially got away with being evidence of premeditated murder.
There are elderly women in prison serving 40+ years to life for killing violent husbands in self defense after suffering brutal and systematic abuse at his hands for 10, 15, 20 or more years. And this little psychopath creates a murder plan that includes multiple elements / steps, lures her victim out to get her alone, pursues the victim when she initially manages to get away, stabs the victim until she's incapacitated, delivers two more stab wounds to her back after she's already down, flees the scene and lies to everybody in her life every single day until she's caught. And the victim, though probably an entitled, snobby, arrogant bully, was not abusing Bernadette. Also she was just 16! She murdered a 16 year old girl who's worst offense was being a teenage snob, the death was violent, the victim suffered, and the whole thing was obviously premeditated. And she was out in 7 years at the age of just 23.
I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH SO MANY ASPECTS OF THE US LEGAL SYSTEM!!
absolutely
@@michaelterango3074 Absolutely.
I remember the hurt from being laughed at for being poor when I was a kid; it still angers me to think about it. But even so, the idea of committing murder over it is unimaginable.
Me too and I had a very dysfunctional family! Plus Narcissistic mother ‼️
My husband died when our son was a baby so obviously for a while there money was going to be a bit of a struggle, especially when he as young. Our son went to a school in which the majority of the kids where from quite well off parents. I remember being thoroughly irked when my son told me that some of the kids were mocking his shoes for being cheap and from a store here known to sell cheap stuff.
I did tell my son that those kids making fun of him haven't achieved anything at all as it's their parents who have the money and not the kids. While we know that's true it's still irksome though that they can be so smug about other peoples money like it makes them more special.
@@It-is-me...Melsie 'The love of money is the root of all evil' . . .
Poverty, Narcissist, Grandiosity, plus having ugly face, when combined, are the ultimate recipe for disaster.
Orinda in the 1980s was a particularly toxic environment, being one of the wealthiest towns in the country, and completely status driven. I grew up in Clayton, CA in the 80s, same age as these girls, and I remember completely relating to Bernadette at the time. I was also the youngest in a large Catholic family. I was never going to be popular or accepted into anything in school because I wasn’t able to afford designer clothes. Luckily for me I found New Wave and Punk music, developed my own personal style, and eventually became cooler than the “popular” kids. But when I was 15, youngest in a large working class family and surrounded by wealthy people, and reading about this story in the news, I definitely related to the perpetrator and could almost understand why this would happen.
I was viciously bullied in HS in 1984. I was beaten and chased and ran off the road. I felt this one. How heartbreaking. Rest in peace. 😢
😢😢 I'm so sorry. I know when you're in the situation at the time being bullied can be totally devastating. I've always bristled up whenever I hear the now-popular "It gets better" advice aimed at bullied teens. 20 years out of high school, I'm certainly aware the advice rings true... that it does get better... it does. But I remember being that age. "It gets better" wasn't around 20 years ago, but when I imagine being a kid in the middle of such a crisis and hearing "It gets better" all I can think about is how close to zero help it would actually be in the moment, hearing that.
Jesus. And I thought the locker room taunting was bad.
Wow. I'm very sorry you went through that. 😢 Being bullied is horrendous. My hope is that you find a pathway to completely heal from this.
Daniel-san??
@@Kirk_Hammett_Bit_Me G-d bless you for stepping up. You were courageous then. Although I am certainly not advocate of violence, you rescued a victim in high school and were a true friend, showing heroism then.
Bullying should not be brooked.
Then you suffered for your act of protection, and made a lifelong friend.
I live in Orinda, and my home is located in close proximity to the place where Kirsten was tragically stabbed and discovered by our next door neighbor, Emilio (“the neighbor”), who is now in his mid 90’s. Emilio is such a sweet and kind man and a very captivating storyteller. Listening to his recollection of finding her that night is bone chilling. Regrettably, he couldn't rescue her, but I believe that in those moments before she passed, he provided comfort and did his utmost to ease her suffering.
she actually died later in the hospital.
@@adotintheshark4848 I know, but he comforted her until they took her to the hospital where she passed
I grew up in Orinda and lived close to the location of the murder. I was younger, still in elementary school at the time, but I remember the case clearly because it was so close to us and it took so long to be solved. It shook the whole town.
😢
@@adotintheshark4848 Actually, no. I am Emidio's daughter, and I was there that night. She was declared DOA, but she died in another neighbor's arms.
Kirsten's poor mom. Imagine having to live with knowing that you accidentally helped set your own child up for murder. That would destroy any mother. I hate that Bernadette involved her in her sick plan. Horrific.
That's a really good observation. I hadn't caught the significance of that element of Bernadette's CLEARLY PREMEDITATED crime. (What a doofus of a judge!)
I watched my aunt and uncle deal with losing their 17 year old son in a car accident in 1997. Kirstin's mom obviously did nothing wrong, but you are correct to say involving her in the rouse to lure Kirstin out that night probably haunted her every day of her life. It's a particularly cruel element to add to an already vicious and senseless murder.
In my cousin's case, his dad (my uncle) had scolded him over something the night he died in the car accident. My cousin left the house in a huff over the argument and my uncle has blamed himself for the past 26 years. Even though a) my cousin was killed on his way home, 4 hours after the argument (meaning he didn't die because his dad angered him and he drove away carelessly because he was mad) and b) he 100% would've driven that exact road at that exact time that night regardless of getting into it with his Dad. He had plans already. All the fight impacted was that my cousin headed out to meet his friends probably 10 or 15 minutes sooner than he would have otherwise left the house.
But understanding intellectually that nothing you did makes you at fault for your child's death is something very different from how you feel about your role in the death. My uncle KNOWS nothing he did led to losing his son that night. He knows it. But that awareness has had zero effect whatsoever on the sad reality that he suffers intense guilt over it to this day.
I'm certain anyone who ever spoke to Kirsten's mother offered intensive reassurance that she didn't do anything wrong. I'm also fairly certain those words did absolutely nothing to make her feel better.
It's a very tragic crime, all around.
I’m sure a bigger thing for her to bear was that her daughter’s murderer was out in seven years.
If your child becomes a murderer, you failed as a parent. Like it or not.
@@icturner23 The sentence of nine years for pre-meditated murder was an outrage. I think that Bernadette should have been tried as an adult and sentenced to life in prison without parole.
I actually had a friend who admitted to feeling guilty for her daughter’s murder because the young girl picked a boyfriend like her dad and the boyfriend killed her.
Chunky with stringy blonde hair is a devastating personal description lmao
Interestingly, it describes most women now
@@myusernamerocks3yes, with the addition of tattoos nowadays 😉
Don’t forget the bull ring piercings and funky attitudes🤣
0@@maggiesamson337
@@maggiesamson337yall sad asf 😭💀
HEATHERS! I was in high school at the same time. In my high school, the faculty cheered on the bullies and the "popular" kids. Everybody else "lacked character." Real classist suburban garbage.
Was the movie "Heathers" based on this case?
@@olilumgbalu5653 I don't think so.
Dang!
America has a strange high school culture of supporting bullies who are often the popular kids . Very shallow values and encourages narcissism!
@@PeleRana-pp6zc I agree.
Unfortunately this type of jealousy is quite common among teenagers. Popularity contests are superficial pursuits that speaks to much deeper issues such as feelings of insecurity or inadequacy.
Thank you, Dr. Grande.❤
Murder a innocent teen girl and serve only 7 years? The court system is a joke.
I think they took into consideration the fact that Bernadette herself was a teen girl. Personally, I feel she should have served more time because it doesn't seem like she's very remorseful for what she did- but it's so common for child/teenaged killers to get out the moment they are twenty one.
There's a woman in Canada who came up with the plan to murder her entire family which was carried out by her and her boyfriend. I think she should still be rotting away in prison because not once has she ever expressed remorse for what she did. She committed the murders when she was 12 and got out when she was 21 or 22.
So many people think that this particular monster should be given a chance when there are so many others saying that she needs to still be in prison.
That's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to disparity in sentencing between men and women that commit the same crime.
California 😂
The 80s was a weird time
@@toquita3dEdmund Kemper only served 6 years for murdering both grandparents at age 15.
Thank you for analyzing this story! I remember the Lifetime movie Death Of A Cheerleader starring Tori Spelling and Kellie Martin.
You beat me to it! 😂 I thought of the same movie, but Kellie's character was called Angela Delvecchio.
Another spot-on "Dr. Grande zinger!" (The acting in that movie was so bad!] Lol 😅😅
Yes, I remember watching that movie as a preteen when it came out! I can still recall some of the scenes. Such a relatable yet deranged story...
I liked Kellie Martin’s acting. And she was the voice of Roxanne from A Goofy Movie. lol
I watched the movie too!! I felt as if the villain was painted as a victim, and that the real victim was painted as somewhat a villian…
Your final comment that school should be about academic achievement vs a popularity contest really gets to the crux of the issue.
Yes, it is. My friend was not popular in high school. She had a mustache and unibrow. The other students made fun of her.
typical America.
I graduated second in my high school class and didn't get laid ONCE for it!
@@derkeheath5172 I almost purposely failed a prep school after sophomore year and then slept through my second HS and had a permanent girlfriend by junior year (whom I'm still married to 54 years later) and I still have problems speaking to pretty girls even at my age ....go figure.
High schoolers, I assure you, no one cares about what happens in high school; neither what you did nor what you didn’t do.
And when you start working no one cares where you went to college
@@willnill7946true that
Wise words. Yet many are trapped in that mindset, as their pinnacle of identity development and may NEVER develop a broader world view nor an alternative life path.
For a short time the college admissions people care.
true but we always remember the classmate that vomited in the classroom
Yeah, being bullied happens in high school. Doesn't mean you murder someone. Zero sympathy for the murderer.
nearly all people, bullies and the bullied, don't commit murder.
Disagree bullies have no rights
Thank you Dr. Grande! It's so sad that teens think that their life is doomed if they don't make cheerleader.
This was years and years ago. But yeah “teens these days” 🙄
Crime happened in 1984 per the Good Doctor.
No what she was afraid of was Kirsten would tell everyone what a whack job Bernadette for her actions of faking a dinner out just to get Kirsten to be her friend.
I agree. It's obviously ridiculous in hindsight, but I can recall at least 5-6 different instances during high school where I was convinced my life was ruined forever. Being a teenager is a crazy time. You have many of the freedoms of an adult, you are capable of keeping up with a busy schedule, you can develop deep emotional attachments to friends and significant others, you can fall in love, you're beginning to take on real and important responsibilities... but you are also functioning via a brain that's not fully developed, hormones that can be all over the place, very little to zero real life experience, and no idea how to regulate your emotions once they've reached a certain intensity.
Honestly, it's somewhat perplexing that we've all managed to live through that particular stage of life.
@@Tingley19they didn’t even say “teens these days”, they said “teens”
The talk about "not making the cheerleading team" is spot on. i remember the girls took that very seriously. One girl who was the captain junior year had a falling out with a couple of the girls and didnt even make the squad her senior year. Highschool girls can be vicious. I dont think any of them got murdered though......awesome video!!
I think you made an excellent point about the amount of time that Bernadette had before committing the stabbing. Had it been a crime of passion, she had time to rethink her actions. You also mentioned that Bernadette may’ve had romantic interest in Kirsten, and I think that’s plausible. At the very least, she was obsessed. Given Bernadette’s obsession with social status and acceptance, I can see how her being rejected lead to her irrationally coming to the conclusion that had to kill Kirsten to keep whatever she expressed a secret. Whether Kirsten was a nice person or not is irrelevant to me, because she still didn’t deserve to be murdered. Even if she had been a vicious bully, why did Bernadette isolate herself with someone who was supposedly cruel to her? I believe that the murder was premeditated, and my heart is still broken for Kirsten’s family.
I worked in three High Schools. One large school in a fairly small town, One new school in another small town with a small population of students and the third a trade school in a large city. None of these factors made a difference. It's all about popularity and social influence. Parental involvement with your children, their friends and other parents, teachers, etc. seem to be a deciding factor when it comes to raising children.That and a lot of luck.
It is sad she got away with murder….only seven years in jail isn’t justice.
Happens for women across the US everyday. They get like 2 or 3 real fuck-ups before they’re held accountable for anything seriously. Men, we aren’t as lucky. We get half a baby fuck up and get more time than that. My brother got 14 years in prison for strong arming an Xbox 360 off a guy back in the day. Justice system my ass.
The cheerleader was a bully too though
Yeah, she was charged as a juvenile and not an adult and she got the maximum allowed by law at the time in CA
@@cat-e2p5bYeah, Kirsten sounds like an entitled, arrogant brat for sure. But for all her negative traits and vile bullying behavior, she certainly never killed anybody.
@@TheLastHappyPlace id say the girl rotting in the ground after being murdered and her family would disagree with the sentence being "just". Absolutely ridiculous and sickening she got out, she should STILL be rotting in prison
Totally correct.. this was completely premeditated. I dont know how the judge could even keep a straight face when saying otherwise. As Dr Grande pointed out, Bernadette literally chased her down in a car and then on foot.
As a wise Time Doctor once said: “For a while, there was peace. Narcissistic, self-congratulatory peace”
Neeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrd.
@@blaisebaileyfinnegan8202Hey, did you get a load of the nerd?!
Pardon me?
Its Terrible how kids get bullied at School. R.I.P to all the Angels who were bullied to death.
In this case the (slightly) bullied girl was the murderer. Very often the murderers are the bullied, not the bullies. Life is complicated.
Since all this " anti-bullying" nonsense, bullying is worse than ever.
Thank you. I tried to take my life for the first time at 12. 😢 It feels good that some people have compassion for what people like us went through
@@carlotapuigno one gets bullied near as much as the pretty awkward girl. Nothing fuels bullying like jealousy. Sorry but she probably wasn't that bullied because she looked safe and common. That's just the truth.
@@LilyFlowers-hh3sc Your comment has nothing to do with my comment above. Did you even read it?
This is why I don't have many friend. Only few that I can trust. You have to learn, observe, and sense with pure instinct, who hates your existence and envy of what you have/possess. Once you figure out who hates you for existing, you can avoid them.
The 1994 movie is appalling. They try to paint the killer as the true victim. Even if Kirsten was a bit snobby (not saying she definitely was), she most likely would have grown out of that. But she was robbed of growing up!
I respect that you are NOT diagnosing, but only speculating on a situation like this Dr Grande.But it feels so sad and suspect. 😥
I’m not commenting, I’m only speculating on what I would comment if I commented 😊
Agree Doc and it's only gotten worse with social media bullying.
My daughter is 5 and picking up things on her kids shows that are scary for me, her mother.
Kirsten found bernadette to be be creepy and weird....this was an accurate assessment. Best line to date.
I like the observation of turning schools into popularity contests. Most if not all public schools allow students to dress in regular everyday clothing as opposed to uniforms. One psychological aspect behind the wearing of uniforms is that it eliminates the competition factor to a large degree, but not altogether. Wearing uniforms somehow gives the students a conscious sense of a level playing field. Even if underprivileged parents cannot afford to buy their kids high range attire, if they value the educational opportunity, they can make the necessary sacrifice to buy good uniforms for their kids.
I often wondered what would have happened if my school had had uniforms, it it would have given most kids a sense of belonging to the school instead of a separation.
I used to be against uniforms because we didn't have them in the 80s buy I think they are useful.
As a former teacher, I am sorry to say that academic achivment can too be turned into a contest. Popular or otherwise!
But I agree with you, schools cannot let up on vigilance, to keep the constant one-upmanship in check, that students, parents and even teachers, heck, all of humanity are so fond of, despite hating it so!
It's difficult! *sigh*
*It's
Kind of takes the cheer part out of cheerleader. Thanks for all your work Dr. Grande.
Who else saw the Lifetime movie on this case starring Tori Spelling way back in the day? I still watch it from to time.
I saw it and the whole movie made the killer into the victim and the victim in to the villian. Something about that just didn’t sit right with me.
I agree with your analysis of another sad & strange case. Congrats on 1.39 million!! 🎈🎉🎊Thanks Dr G😊💙💙
Getting outrun by a Ford Pinto is pretty bad.
I like how Dr. Grande downplays the FBI profilers assessments..🤣😊
To think she got out after 7 years, when she was 23 and started a new life is unreal. She's CEO or something now, married with kids.
Jeanette Tomanka is her name now
And another girl who was initially blamed went through hell & had to leave the school. She never got an apology from anyone & fell into substance abuse.
She's not a CEO, her sister is.
@@rolandm9750of what?
@@rolandm9750 yup her sister is. Jeanette used to be a nurse practioner TAKING CARE OF PATIENTS, but allowed her license and certification to expire!
Hey, Dr. Grande! Still watching all of your videos and loving them. Came to the comment section to *THANK YOU* for finally covering this case; I had been asking you sporadically to cover this particular case. I’ve delved so deeply into this one that I could have assisted you with details, lol. But, I’ve always pondered the deep psychology behind Bernadette (and that particular community, honestly…) and I’ve always been so curious as to what they discussed/what took place in that Pinto. Dr. Grande (and anyone reading this), may you have an amazing 2024! Rest peacefully, Kirsten Costas.
PPS: Brilliant dry quips per usual, Todd. 😅
Dr.Todd, I really enjoy your videos, and understand your analysis of cases. Last night, I was watching one of my favorite shows on TV. INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY. I closed my eyes for a few minutes, and I heard a familiar voice! Lo and behold, it was you! I felt like I knew you from watching your videos. Hope to see you on more shows!!
I can still remember things lots of kids went through in high school. It was miserable. Many kids from wealthy families attended there and they ran everything. I was glad to graduate and get away from the snobbery and constant status symbolism.
Interesting to think that it’s a narcissistic trait to look up to narcissists. I’ve definitely been guilty of that.
Omg you’re kidding horrible
Most narcissists would never admit to possessing a narcissistic trait, so I'd say there's hope for you. 😊
We all learn by such illuminations
@@grangrampa832What’s horrible? Self reflection? Growing as a person? Ironic.
I mean, that explains Trump's base, doesn't it.
I’m a firm believer that parents should know who their child is friends with in or out of school.
Bernadette wasn’t really a friend and Bernadette didn’t give her name to Kirsten’s mom
Dr. Grande, this is one of those cases impossible to shake - thank you for covering it. RIP Kirsten.
Hey Todd! We have seen often in your episodes your criticism against criminal profilers. Many of us wonder why. How about making a special episode exemplifying instances where the profilers got it all wrong and why? That‘d be super cool :)
As i mentioned to another comment i don't believe either.
Different culture, upbringing,autistic people,etc might sound or seemed guilty.
Me when i am telling something I don't look the other person in the eyes, I don't lie i just try to concentrate.
I have lied to cops ver successfully,but i acted guilty in another incident for no reason
I am bilingual hopefully my comment makes sense.
Profilers are not even a step up from self-proclaimed psychics. Everything a profiler contributes is so generic and interpretations so malleable that no matter who is proven guilty, the "profile" fits. Such profiles are, in essence, "answers in search of questions." We can go through the writings of Nostradamus and find the same pattern. How many world events would a given quatrain fit?
@@SeaBlue1976 oh exactly! I have a very slight lazy eye that sometimes doesn't look in the same direction as the other, especially when I'm tired. Not super apparent to anyone unless they know about it already, but I am self conscious sometimes, and if I realize it's not focusing properly, I will quickly look away so that the other person won't notice. I never thought about it before, but it would probably make me look guilty as sin if I did that around law enforcement. 🤣
I already know of a case...the Green River serial killer. An FBI profiler was brought in and seemed to be actively aiding and abetting this monster. He was eventually apprehended by an astute local cop.
@@lizbensoncox so true my friend,u cannot just decide especially in an interrogation room if someone acts guilty ,we wouldn't need courts,just cops
Behaviour experts and profilers telling me nothing, debunked
Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! Your true fans love your humour and sarcasm. January 9 is National Apricot Day, Feast of the Black Nazarene, Remembrance Day for Rauld the Strong, National Cassoulet Day, National Static Electricity Day, Balloon Ascension Day, and Play God Day.
It’s also Law Enforcement Officer Appreciation Day in the USA.
@@ReSearcherSusie Thanks.
Feast of the Baptism of the Lord is celebrated on Monday, January 9.
Dr. Grande, you sure are getting popular.....Seen you on the episode of "Who the Bleep did I marry (the babysitter killer) last night! Congratulations on your stardom ⭐
Dr Granda, I really enjoy your channel and your opinion on the cases. Just wondering if you could do a video on Arial Castro who held 3 Cleveland girls hostage for over 10 yrs.
I'll second this request! I would really like to hear this particular analysis given that case occurred back when I was 12... I guess I just feel connected to it as I live quite close to the area.❤
I am so glad this was posted! I was wondering when this would end up covered. Bernadette deserved prison for life. She should NEVER have been released!
Who drives around with a knife in their car? This was premeditated!
Her sister claims that she used the knife to cut vegetables in her car during lunch breaks at work..... that's not bizarre at all...........
Right?
Lots of people keep a knife in their car.
Even if the knife was legitimately left in the car, Bernadette still grabbed it before confronting Kiersten. There was some premeditation.
Yup, Bernadette's sister was cutting cucumbers !
Your logic is actually scary considering the culture we live in please keep these videos coming!
I live in this area, Orinda is extremely wealthy mixed with middle class. Its a town you dont want to be middle class in. Which tbh is most of the bay area. Orinda is ruled by the sheriffs dept, as are all 5 wealthy towns in contra costa county. The contra costa county sheriffs dept does not arrest "residents" of these towns. They have extremely "low" *cough* rates of crime because of this.
That's one way for them to keep the crime rate down! I guess that's why they never bothered to check her alibi!
@@deborahblackvideoediting8697
Exactly. If you don't ever arrest anyone, and keep saying "it's your word against their's" then the crime rate stays low.
the sheriffs out here are a joke. I know it gets over-used in this age, but the sheriffs out here are corrupt and derelict. One town in the county had 50% of its officers sidelined in a current fbi investigation. (Antioch PD)
Did anybody else ever see the Lifetime movie (back in the 90s or so 😂) based on this movie with Tori Spelling?!? Never knew about the actual story, thanks Dr. G!
HELLL YEA.... My childhood..... they also did a remake after that tori spelling version
Yes! With Girl from life goes on . I did not know it was based on actual event
Yeah, I saw it. I think the remake though.
Schools have always been & remain today just a big "popularity contest". Thankfully I survived high school in the late 80s by being blissfully invisible. My own teen daughter chose to attend a special STEM High School where academics were the main focus & most of the drama teens experience in high school didn't exist there. My son, who is a senior this year has had a rough High School experience...he is very happy he is almost done with it.
Single sex schools are better for everyone but they keep forcing everyone together. I think that's weird.
How tragic. I love your take on this story. I’m curious what you think a proper sentence would be. I agree that the one she got was too light
Reminds me of why I hated high school.
We saw you on investigation discovery the other day! My husband started clapping 👏🏼
i specifically remember when I was in grade school my classmate laughed at my thin plastic pencil case because it had a hole on the bottom, it is amazing how a person rudeness or kindness can have a lasting impression.
We should choose Kindness 🙏❤️
I agree with you. I knew them both and was in their class. I just need to say this because Kirsten's name has been dragged through the mud. From everything I remember about Kirsten, she was very sweet. I never saw either of them bully anyone, which isn't to say they didn't. I just never saw it. I didn't know Bernadette as well, but she was in the same clique and never spoke to me because I wasn't popular.
Rejection and rage go together, she was enraged at her rejection and acted on it
When I was in high school I resented the entire hierarchy of popularity and complained about it, but there were always adults that assured me when I grew up that such high school rules would mean nothing, and the popular people would not mean much as adults in our working worlds. But what I found as an adult is there is still always this hierarchy of popularity in any group whether at the office, at sports clubs, at any social or academic group, anywhere there is a group of people, and mostly the basis of popularity remains the same; first it is looks, those people that look the most beautiful or handsome draw alot of friends and invitations to parties, then of course comes money, those who didn't necessarily look good but showed off their money with clothing, cars, bragging about work position, etc., then if the group really has sensible people, the one's with great personalities and senses of humor, who deserve to be popular, may become popular with the group. But it always continues, the desire to be popular and liked; as it seems like a survival instinct to have the herd like you so they can protect you at a time of need I suppose. I don't know if the items that make someone seem popular will ever change. I think since humans have existed, the best looking ones (whatever is considered good looking for that group) is always the most popular. I don't think that will change, it appears to be a natural instinct to gravitate towards attractive people. I have even seen babies smile more and get more bubbly at the better looking human being, just on instinct. As Keats said "A thing of beauty is a joy forever" I guess. I've always been somewhere in the middle, not ugly but not gorgeous so I never resented society's favoritism over looks but I still believe it is so superficial given that I have known some really stupid, annoying, mean-spirited human beings who looked beautiful. And it is so sad that people would kill over something so superficial.
I've observed the same and I really believe the real privileged class in America is the good-looking. I'm actually glad I'm not part of it because while they live according to their lived experience they don't live in reality and it adds a layer of difficulty for them to attain actually virtuous traits. As a young adult I studied abroad and two of my roommates were beautiful girls from eastern Europe and I was surprised to find they did not have the arrogance and haughtiness that pretty girls in the US have. It really made me think about it. My bf is chubby and middle-aged now. As a child he was overweight but then as a young man he was in excellent shape and very good-looking. He says people treat you very differently and want you for everything (friendship, romance, jobs, etc) when you're pretty. He tries to be equally friendly with everybody.
The desire to be popular is an extrovert thing... people who enjoy their own company typically don't care about that kind of stuff. For many, being part of a herd is totally undesirable. But a lot of people are conditioned to care what other people think.
I think you nailed it in this one. Thank you for such clear and concise analysis.
Everyone has someone who sees you as their competition and a threat. Very few are any serious competition or threat... it only takes one.
I enjoy hearing your analysis and clever remarks! Thank you
Thank you for this analysis. I watched "Death of a Cheerleader" (or "A Friend To Die For") and I hated how they made Kirsten's character into some stereotypical "mean girl" who somehow deserved her death and Bernadette's character into some poor, put-upon "victim" who we're supposed to root for. It's a sick, sad case. Rest in peace.
That is what Kristen was. How can you imagine anything different? You must have been in the in crowd in school.
From the description of Bernadette I thought she was going to look very unattractive but honestly I don't think she was. Her envy and jealousy got the better of her, she took that to the extreme and murdered her idol. Reminds me of my pre teen years, looking up to an older better looking girl and wishing I could be like her and have her confidence, whereas I was shy and wanted blending into the scenery 😂
I followed this case back in the day & Bernadette got off so lightly after murdering an innocent girl due to her jealousy
I have carried a couple sets of silverware, butter and steak knives included, in my glove box for when I’m eating lunch or dinner on the road. I’ve done that for at least 50 years and never once thought it to be strange. It started when I had braces on and had to cut my food and plastic utensils just didn’t work.
This is the tragedy of "high school clique culture". It is sad that Bernadette Protti felt such despair at not being on a cheerleader that she resorted to murder.
I feel more sad for the person she murdered.
@@blaisebaileyfinnegan8202, no one is not feeling sad for her. However, the school "clique culture" is how we have people have such askew views.
Once everyone graduates and goes to college, that's all gone. The popular people aren't so popular at a big college.
@@gusgrizzel8397, true.. and there are far often cases where "the former popular girl" is the killer. Multiple episodes of *_Deadly Women_* have segments like that.
Ahree. I didn’t make cheerleader plus I was bullied for a year by two witches and then the following year I was bullied by jerk guys. But I never committed murder. This was in the 80’s too. Im the same age as them
"The Tragedy of Mimetic Desire"- Professor Girard and the Bloody Deeds of Bernadette Protti
Whenever we spend time reflecting on human actions and human behaviors we make judgements based on first principles. Dr. Grande has his first principle: "do no harm"-a sort of Hippocratic Oath and Professor Girard had his: "desire is always learned by watching others desire something, not for the thing itself." We can immediately apply this second principle to the case of Bernadette Protti.
What did Bernadette want? She wanted all the things that Kirsten Costas had. No one "wanted" the things that the Protti family enjoyed. At least not in this scenario. Someone living in the slums of Oakland might actually find a reason to envy Bernadette. When desire becomes aware of itself in someone's mind it then becomes a driving force dissolving one's appreciation of the things one actually has. So then you see, murder becomes the only way to relieve the hell of desiring what others desire. Thank you.
Bernadette and Kirsten were both average. Part of the issue is how Americans perceive success and assign self-worth.
I'm glad you did this video,I had only seen the movie and it made the murder victim look like this terrible person, which if she was no reason to stab her anyway,in the movie it showed the murderer in a good light ,kind of strange,I guess they just went based on what the killer said, which is unfair because the victim obviously couldn't take up for herself to say what happened
Very informative review of this case. Thanks Dr. Grande!
I just watched the death of a cheerleader film here free on TH-cam a few days ago! I was actually wondering if you covered the case! ☕
It’s possible the utensils were in the car as the sister stated, i used to leave silverware and such in the care when i was super busy in school
Bernadette Protti changed her name to Jeanette Tomanka. She moved to Oklahoma and received a degree in nursing. She also writes/ edits medical textbooks. She now lives in Northwest Oregon with her husband.
Dr. Grande, thank you for your analysis. I find your assessment accurate and well-thought-out. The goal-oriented behavior of the subject starting from the point of grievance all through the investigation and the trial, even in the attempts to blur the signs of premeditation, is quite disturbing and seems to have been downplayed by the system.
Interesting video as always Dr. Grande! For some reason this reminded me of the story of Kaitlyn Arquette, who was killed here in Albuquerque in 1989. Her mother was the famous young adult fiction author Lois Duncan.
Hey Dr. Grande! I’m wondering if you could analyze the case of Cedric Marks in Killeen Texas? He was recently given a death sentence after being found guilty of double homicide (both of which his victims I knew), and is suspected of having also killed a couple other people back in Oklahoma several years ago.
I hope today finds you well, and God bless from Texas!
Are you in Killeen? I’m watching from Round Rock. 🪨
@@Reclaim-the-Rainbow not in Killeen, but in a very close-by town to it! (apologies for being vague, i just don’t wanna accidentally doxx myself online or anything lol)
Thanks!
I saw the movie with Kellie Martin and Tori Spelling. Kellie did an excellent job playing the part of the murderer. Difficult to understand why someone would be that jealous of someone else. Live your own life.
I knew them both and was in their class. I'm just going to keep saying this when someone brings up that movie (and it's probably going to annoy everyone): Please do not believe that garbage. Both girls are portrayed as very different from who they were. The killer in that was based on a girl who was severely bullied, not on Bernadette. From everything I remember about Kirsten, she was very sweet. I didn't know Bernadette as well, but she was in the same clique and never spoke to me.
@@ssdfgardiner1233thank you for telling the truth! I am tired of people saying Kirsten bullied Bernadette. She was jealous and killed her due to being jealous. She should still be in prison if you ask me!
I always thought that this movie villianized the victim, Kirstin, and tried to shine a light of innocence on Bernadette. I myself was painfully shy and from a poor family, I was bullied a lot but I never thought that high school bullies need to die. I was hesitant to watch this video but I'm glad that I saw it through to the end, thank you for making it
My first car was a bright orange Pinto. I want to make it clear that not all kids who drove a Pinto are murderers.
The movie is an oldie but goodie. Going to watch it tonight. Great video once again!
Agreed Doc. Jealous, envious, planned.
Except for the knife. That just happened cuz her sister sliced cucumbers in the car
Unfortunately, if you have a group of teenaged girls in any area, you are going to see a popularity contest going on. What makes one popular may vary a bit from different decades (cheerleading is almost always the crowning feature of popularity, but today's teens also follow who has the most involved gender expression and the most ridiculous new "name") and in different regions (city vs rural; midwest vs east; weslthy area vs lower middle class; etc). I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Now it’s based off of how many “followers” you have. My hs was riddled with influencers
I wonder why Kirsten didn't just stay at home when she got dropped off. If only she hadn't decided to walk to her friend's house she would have been safe. Maybe she didn't have a key to get in when her parents were away. It's crazy how one tiny insignificant decision can change your whole life or even end it without you even being aware of it.
Did he not say in this video that she could not get into her family home?
Kirsten’s parents were not home yet, so I’m guessing she didn’t think it was safe there to be alone at her house so she was trying to get her neighbors that was at home.
This is heartbreaking
Kirsten couldn’t get into her house bc she didn’t have the keys. Her parents were away at her brothers baseball game. She was not walking to a friends house.
That’s why Kirsten headed to her neighbors house to stay until they got back but as she was approaching her neighbors front door is when Bernadette attacked her.
Love all episodes!
I do wonder how many "situations like this" there could be, however...
Painfully obvious that this was premeditated. Involving Kirsten’s mother in this plan is demonic. Maybe she won’t kill again, but where is the justice? Rip Kirsten 💔
Your educational videos really help me understand all these things. Gives me a new perspective when I am a passenger on an airplane. Thanks.
As a native San Franciscan, I can confirm that Orinda is one of those really creepy rich suburbs that every major metro area has, where pressure to conform and be "popular" is intense. It's the pretty much the opposite of the free-spirited, open-minded environment where I grew up in The City. I've only been there very briefly maybe twice in my life that I can remember (and I'm pretty sure I was only at the BART station one of those times), but that place seriously gives me uncanny Truman Show vibes, so I hope I never have to go there again for any reason.
I grew up in a poor rural farm town and it’s no different than how you describe the “rich” suburbs. This is human nature. You live in a bubble.
@@svenskanorskI can assure you, no one that grows up in the city of San Francisco lives in a bubble. Quite the opposite!
That's a very detailed opinion to have of a place you've barely been to.
Kirsten died as a result of a preponderance of reasons, though the last factor was Bernadette’s envy.
I agree with you about the degree of murder and that lie detection is largely pseudoscience
I studied this case a lot... An article was written about Bernadette called "Borderline" but I honestly disagree, I believe she is a sociopath: I see BPD individuals as capable of feeling remorse, Bernadette still to this day doesn't feel any remorse for what she did, she described herself as a 'life hacker' cause she changed her identity, she is now Jeannette Tomanka, that is why she was able to pass the polygraph test... Other students were accused for this brutal murder and she allowed that to happen hoping to get away with it. If the FBI didn't make that matching profile we probably wouldn't know who the killer was, that's how far she went to cover her actions. Also there is no proof Kirsten bullied her, Bernadette was actually described as popular, even though she didn't become a cheerleader, she was part of the popular group, she was obsessed with Kirsten and lured her out of her house under false pretenses, just try to imagine if a guy did that not a girl, people would have a very different opinion about this case! They wanted to sensationalize the case with the mean girl Hollywood stereotype but the sad reality is that she was a psycho obsessed with her poor classmate... I feel bad for her neighbours honestly, imagine if she doesn't take meds, I think she could kill again or she might have done it, before she was released she was evaluated as dangerous, she has a trigger in her mind that can snap whenever she doesn't get what she wants from a relationship or a situation. More importantly I feel bad for Kirsten, her family and friends...
I was bullied from literally the time I entered, pre-K up until I left school because of the bullying at age 16 in my junior year. I had one more year and it was so bad that I could not take it anymore. Throughout those years I would have thoughts creep in occasionally about hurting others, but Those thoughts went away just as fast as they came in because I could never hurt another human being. No matter how much they hated and hurt me. And as a kid and as a teen I figured they bullied me because I was worth nothing because I was the things they said, and the only person I was most likely to hurt was myself. I would love to be able to go back and do it again with the confidence I have now but even then, feeling like the dirt beneath some filth pot’s fingernails I never could’ve killed someone just because I wished I had what they had. There is truly something wrong with Bernadette. Something in her head, in her entire being wasn’t and may still not be right.
Thank you! I agree. Just to be clear, I was in their class and knew both of them. I feel like Kirsten's name has been dragged through the mud. I never saw her bully anyone. I was unpopular, and she was sweet to me while I found Bernadette to be quite snobby. I was bullied, too, by the way, but I usually had a smart insult ready to fight back with--not always, though. I think it is still very common. It's good to teach kids not to bully--nobody stopped it back then--but I think it would be good to teach kids how to deal with a bully, too. Glad to hear you got your well-deserved confidence!
If you commit murder you should never be permitted to change your name.
Always interesting.
Thank you
Excellent analysis Dr Grande. What a shame she was let out so early. Wonder what became of her?
It’s pretty easy to find Bernadette’s new identity with a quick search. The resemblance is uncanny.
I've seen a number of pictures of Bernadette Protti and she looked quite attractive, imo. I don't know where these [only ordinary looking] descriptions came from, but I'm guessing from other 16-year-old female students that thought they were better than her because their families had more money than hers.
I agree. I was surprised when I first saw pictures of the girls, after watching the movie on lifetime for years. IMO Bernadette was prettier than Kirsten. But I guess their personalities had a lot to do with their popularity and what not.
Maybe the photos are flattering and she looking different in real life
She looks average at best...
She was no Beyonce or Kim K...
Unsweetened Most don’t look like Kim and Beyoncé but the point is BP wasn’t as unattractive as some people thought she was. She just didn’t have confidence and wanted to be Kirsten
I don’t understand how the judge concluded that the proper conviction was second degree murder. In my opinion, this crime was clearly premeditated. I think it was premeditated and carefully planned from the beginning.
I can so remember the feelings of competition in school. Even in Band the first players in a section( clarinets, flutes etc.) were envied! Never mind the insanity over becoming a cheerleader! 🏈📣👗
Thank you again Dr. Grande 🙏
Unbelievable what will trigger someone to murder 😢, My mother insisted that we move into a neighborhood where everyone had more money than we did, my sister and I made friends with 2 other sisters ( they had a Lot of money) and during our younger years the 4 of us were inseparable, until suddenly in junior high school they started running with the “ in crowd “ and we were dropped from their friends circle, it was very hurtful but life goes on.
Thanks for covering this case Dr. Grande. I've always been interested in it since I saw the movie in the 90s. I'd be cool if you could cover the Missy Avila murder, which was also dramatized into a movie by Lifetime.
I remember that movie.