The horror of ‘assisted dying’ | spiked podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2024
- Jacob Reynolds, Tom Slater and Fraser Myers discuss the assisted-dying bill and the Labour MP demanding a blasphemy law.
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This is the government’s cheap alternative to providing access to good palliative care
💯 Ultimately that's exactly where this may lead - anything 'incurable' could be considered a 'suffering' that could be alleviated.
Thank you for pushing a wider public debate on assisted suicide. I was once in favour. I changed my mind when I read about MAID (Canada). It's shocking that a piece of legislation with such profound ramifications is being rushed through Parliament. I don't trust either politicians or, sad to say, medical professionals to make decisions on ending the lives of vulnerable people. A commission should be established to thoroughly investigate the issue.
I will donate.
And an added extra is now the request for blasphemy laws which will only apply to one religion. Why didn’t the PM state NO…we have free speech in this country…oh I forgot we don’t anymore.
Watch the lotus eaters podcasts Starmer. It's very revealing. Starmer is a full-blown communist. This channel is very much to the left. Lotus eaters is a pure right-wing channel and is excellent.
I think it was 2017 Canada had a paper stating how much money would be saved by legalising MAID
Palliative care and hospice care should be prioritised
Euthanasia will become the biggest cost cutting mechanism for NHS budgets. It is naive to think that after a decade or two euthanasia will be so normalised that chronically ill patients who don’t ‘choose’ it will be seen as wasting NHS money and being selfish. Palliative care could become a post-code lottery or the privilege of those who can afford private medical care.
Anyone who doesn’t believe this could happen needs to look at the secret rollout of the Liverpool Care Pathway where the deaths of patients were significantly hastened without consent from either the patient or their next of kin. Drs took it upon themselves to determine that someone’s life needed to end and secretly placed them on the “care” pathway. A BBC investigation found that hospitals were incentivised to meet targets of patients being put on the LCP - that was when euthanasia was illegal. It’ll happen far more when it’s not illegal.
YES & it's significant that murderous Midazolam Matt of the Macarbe Hancock is backing the Assisted Suicide Bill.
So WELL said. I was my late father's carer. He was given 3-5 years to live at diagnosis. He lived (a good and purposeful life) for a further 20 years.
Can you give me some links to look into the Liverpool case? I haven't heard about it before
@@RenegadeContext TH-cam does not allow links. Please just put the phrases into a search engine.
@@sookibeulah9331 can you give me the best phrase to find the situation you're talking about? Is there a hospital name or such?
Canadian here, FIGHT IT or it will end up like Canada.
OR the Netherlands & the 27 yo Amelia Brouwers...
I have researched maid, and it is horror how people die. I can see Starmer, who is identical to the Canadia PM. I hope the Canadians kick him and the coalition party out. They need to vote in the Conservatives. Trudeau has destroyed Canada. Expanding maid to kill mentally ill people, homeless people, and people poverty is pure evil. Any Dr involved in the programme should stand trial for murder.
Why, what happened in Canada in breif? (e.g. Futurama style suicide booths)
Two foreign Drs will have no qualms about signing it off to clear beds
Strange how the ads don't feature terminally ill people, wracked by agony..
Abortion was legalised in the UK; they said it would be very rare and for exceptional circumstances only...9 million dead babies later.
What about the horror of dying extremely painful and slowly?
You always have that right. I'm dying slowly from sequential organ failure due to diabetes (40 years now.) I plan to suffer for another 10-15 years if I can.
I fear a horror where in a decade or two the chronically ill are coerced into accepting Euthanasia because it’s become the socially expected choice. Where those who don’t choose to die are seen as wasting NHS money or burning through their children’s inheritance. Such coercion needn’t be explicit to be effective - asking someone for the umpteenth time “as you sure you wouldn’t be more comfortable if we just give you this injection?”until they relent. Or “Mum we can’t keep paying for this care home we’ll never be able to buy a house”
The problem is that, in a system with publically funded healthcare, is that, while very few people would disagree that someone who has had cancer spread to his bones and pain medicine no longer controls the pain and he has less than 2 months to live- few would disagree that he should be allowed to die, the problem that arises is that he will be expected to choose death and save the healthcare system money.
You mean being alive?
Nothing is stopping you from taking your own life. What this bill allows is for doctors to murder you.
You mean being alive?
Life is terminal: we're all going to die
Keir Starmer reacts like a rabbit in headlights whenever he's confronted with a controversial issue that might lose him votes, that's why he will probably never come out and state categorically that blasphemy laws have no place in Britain.
I'm getting visions of logan's run..as the criteria expands.
and Solyent Green
The notion that suicide is an unacceptable solution to suffering is curiously eurocentric. I suppose it comes from the Christian idea that only God has the right to decide when your number is up; that personaly autonomy and human agency stop where matters of God and the soul begin. I'm kinda surpsised Spiked goes in for that sort of thing.
It is ironic that in every other area of life autonomy us under attack by busy bodies and nannies who want to save us from our sins. Autonomy is almost a taboo word, except if you want to kill yourself. Then the virtue of "autonomy" is re-discovered. Here's the thing, there is no "autonomy" when you are dead. We've all heard the stories of geriatrics in hospital denied a beer only to die the following day.
There is also a big difference from an individual giving up, and society collectively giving up. That is why when a distressed person is standing on a ledge, we don't all shout "jump". Many people, even with relatively minor ailments, can get depressed and give up. That is often because they do not get the support they need. Now it seems we are prioritising funding for death on the NHS over palliative care and social care. That really is chilling.
That advert in the tube is sick , no one who wants to die looks like that woman. Its pure lies 😒
The imagery on the assisted suicide tube poster is extremely sinister.
What made me support euthanasia in certain circumstances was some years ago watching a documentary on the experiences of an average man with locked in syndrome. He ended up starving himself. What has made me consider the consequences is MAID in Canada and the abuses that have resulted from it.
Have we done enough to make the lives of those suffering worth living before we grant their wish to die?
Nope, we have not.
Would have to agree I’ve watched two family member’s suffer for months with a terminal illness one who asked if they could be put out their misery i understand the objections on the ground of the way Canada’s systems has become but this is the UK and we can rule over our own system
@martycarter8203 I think the issue is that ultimately you are putting that trust in the hands of bureaucrats. Delicate and sensitive things like this never end well in their hands. Just look at the current state of the NHS. Do you really trust them to do the right thing if handed more paperwork?
If we had a smoothly running system in a well functioning society then I would seriously think about supporting it but as it stands the amount of medical abuse that people suffer under the current system would shock you. The last thing we need is telling them they can encourage people to off themselves
@@martycarter8203 Is that how it works? If you had a terminally ill family member then you get to manipulate people's feelings into agreeing with you?
I cared for a terminally ill relative as well. Does that mean I get to play that as a card for denouncing other people's arguments?
Does that mean I get to ignore the historical precendents set in Germany, Soviet Union, and now Canada?
In principle, I agree with assisted dying but I know how evil humans are and bureaucrats will absolutely abuse this.
my body, my life, my choice.
At the moment, that may be true. The Covid "period" showed us where we are headed.
You expect other people to make it possible.
@@aethellstan until it no longer is your free choice. Look up the “Liverpool Care Pathway scandal”
It’s where Drs hastened the deaths of frail and terminally ill people by withdrawing food and water WITHOUT consent from the patients or next-of-kin.
If you care to look it up one bit of info you may see: “Some say that hospitals were bribed to use the LCP. A BBC investigation found that some hospitals were offered money to meet targets related to the LCP.”
So that’s hospitals being incentivised to meet targets for an illegal procedure. If you don’t recognise that will eventually happen to an even greater extent once euthanasia is legal and normalised you are very naive.
I cared for both of my parents as they died of cancer. I’ve seen the hell and the pain and dread going through something similar myself. However, I dread even more a post-code lottery on palliative care, or it becoming the purview of the wealthy. I dread being told that the Drs can’t do any more, that my care is costing too much and the only medical assistance I will now be given is euthanasia even more than dying as my parents died.
Sure, until a doctor or politician decides otherwise.
@@richardneedham13 you have no idea what you're talking about.
9:57 I suppose if you want to take this idea to its conclusion, 'being alive' is terminal.
The key moral horror here is the nanny on the left of your screen inserting himself into the lives of others because HE knows better than they do about their own lives and deaths. What a jerk.
?? Tom 😂
If we're to restore balsphemy laws then we're going to have to consider that Islam is blasphemy.
I wish Spiked would have the same attitude to abortion
One can eliminate many of the objections re government cost-cutting incentives by privatising the health sector. Moreover; My life, my death.
If it was me I would want to have the choice, you can argue about the details of the legislation and worry about a 'slippery slope' but to deny someone the choice is inhumane and i suspect if it directly affected many of those currently so strongly opposed they would experiance a Damascene conversion.
So you are arguing for state-administered suicide to be universally available?
@@vthompson947 I would like those who are terminally ill who's daily existence consists of discomfort and pain with no hope of recovery to have a choice yes.
Legislation needs to look beyond the individual to the societal impacts & risks. I also would want this option on an individual level but the risks on a macro level are too much. As long as we have basic physical abilities than we can take our own lives without state assistance
@@SpikeyMikey341i have chronic arthritis and alot of pain. I still work part time. We can't legislate our way out of life itself.
@@jayjaydubful Society allows young healtly individuals to be slaugthered en masse in times of war and allows abortion but can't bring itself to end the suffering of a few terminally ill people in pain with no quality of life who's express wish is to be allowed to die?
I am praying this Bill will not be passed.
So was I !
Social care no longer exists. My local hospital has approx 1000 beds ,at any one time between 150 and 250 beds are filled with patients who are discharged by the Dr.but are waiting for Care Home/Residential home or family members to take them in.etc.they are mainly elderly.If these patients didn't exist it would go along way to keeping the NHS ticking along!!
I've watched many Canadians pass away due to medical intervention before these laws were passed in Canada.
They've been doing this for decades.
You have to ask what's currently wrong with dying for us to be looking for a solution to it. I mean there's a 100% success rate as is.
We should all be afraid "phobia" of radical religious ideologues who push their beliefs on non-believers especially when they want to entrench it in law. There seems to be only one religion that threatens others with physical harm, even within their own community. It is time to say NO NO NO and NO to those who would attempt to use democracy to advance religious law.
Sorry but your wrong! This is a choice that MUST be given! This decision is for the individual NOT anyone else! Your quite simply wrong!
Please take the time to read up on MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying, Canada).
@@annys4797Canada is nuts. That is not what is being proposed here.
@@hayley7090Canada’s initial laws were very similar to what is being proposed here. In just a decade the parameters/ requirements for euthanasia has changed to such a degree that you describe it as nuts. Why do you think that after a decade the UK’s laws regarding euthanasia will have ‘progressed’ less than Canada’s laws have done in that time frame?
What I fear is a post-code lottery of palliative care, or it becoming the prevue of the wealthy. I don’t want scenarios in 20-30’years where it the only ‘care’ the NHS funds. That because a chronically ill patient been offered a way to relieve their suffering via euthanasia a health authority does have to continue paying for long term medical or personal care. This is what disability groups fear.
@@sookibeulah9331 Rich folk already have that option
Just pop over to Switzerland
I have £10k in a ccount saved just for that
It is a far better option then the NHS and cheaper then private
Maybe YOU are "simply wrong"? The real risk is that the chronically ill are coerced into accepting euthanasia because it’s become the socially expected choice - where those who don’t choose to die are seen as wasting NHS money or burning through their children’s inheritance. Such coercion needn’t be explicit to be effective. Families who can't afford homing and feeding their elderly? The dispossessed and homeless? The bankrupt? Would you trust an authority that currently stalks the UK? (I know I wouldn't.)
Rules to legalise killing . Pre Shipman I think this happened tacitly. Now it will be explicit and made a lifestyle choice. Feels weird after the ruinous efforts made to save octagenerians who naturally die. every Winter. More pathological empathy and will be a political mire for Starmer. This law cannot be made moral by more and more rules.
Greatest episode in ages well said on all that was said
I'm not against the notion of assisted dying in principle, if we're talking about whether or not to let someone live in untold agony for an undetermined period of time. I don't think a stranger has the right to tell someone else that they just have to put up with whatever hell that their body has visited upon them.
But having seen how this kind of thing has been implemented elsewhere, particularly in Canada, there's no way that this isn't going to end up as the same kind of horror show.
Given how uniquely shit our current government is, it may actually be significantly worse than anywhere else.
The only issue I have is that we have drugs for pain, It's not as if people are being left at the end of their life in pure unmitigated pain, which is what seems to be being suggested.
@@MJeeEm-fg8md
I don't know if people aren't being left in pain actually, but that's probably more to do with the state of the NHS more generally.
There are some situations where pain meds don't cut it though, where a person has such a low quality of life with no hope of improvement, that I wouldn't blame someone for wanting to end that misery, nor do I think that anyone should stop them if that's their choice.
Ideally these kinds of scenarios would be uncommon though, and assisted suicides would not be happening at the rate that we hear from countries like Canada, and certainly not for some of the relatively trivial reasons we hear about.
Guys, I thought it was time that I should start contributing to your channel so I went tot the donate page but there doesn't seem to be a monthly subscription option, only a once-off donation.
Happy to do the one-off but I'd like to contribute more regularly without the faff of doing it through a donation every time.
Encouraged dying you mean
What a one sided discussion of assisted dying. You really should have tried to find a guest who could argue the other side. I take it that none of you guys support the abortion laws? If you do then the hypocrisy is astounding. If this bill becomes law, you do not have to avail yourself of a slightly earlier exit as you sink in to helplessness or unbearable pain. I fully support your right to hang on as long as possible. Please don't interfere with those of us that might choose to check out a bit earlier with dignity.
Life itself is terminal, we are all slowly dieing
If anyone hasn't read it, may I recommend 'Being Mortal' by Atul Gawande.
Spiked sees the problem with assisted dying, but not @bortion. Why? Why is one "personal autonomy" good, but not the other? Ella - now a mum - has spent years justifying inf@nticide.
In an earlier article Spiked were talking about the risks and lack of dignity to women of gender recognition of trans in police strip-searches, totally ignoring the same impact on men.
They claim to be anti-woke but at times come across as controlled opposition.
A pheotus doesn't know it is alive and has no concept of personal choice, no conciousness, no concept of anything. Until it is born it is part of its mother's life, it has no life of its own. Hardly the same thing.
@MB-st7be until it is born it has no life of its own? That isn't a fact at all but an opinion. Of course it has life before then for goodness sake. It is living.
@MJeeEm-fg8md we've such a dysgenic group without us, they value bird eggs on the galapagos more than their own species. They believe fossilised squiggles on Martian rocks to be "life", but not an 8 month pre born baby from their own species
@@MJeeEm-fg8md It is made of living cells sure, just like the mother's liver is made from living cells, but it does not yet have *a life*.
THE HORROR OF FORCING SOMEONE TO LIVE WHO WANTS NOTHING OF IT
Noone is forcing them to live, they are alive. What of the horror of introducing the possibility of state assisted suicide into palliative care?
Anti-life, anti-reality, machine thinking. The horror of cultural vandals coming in the name of our own good.
@@Gorbyrev YOU are imposing YOUR will onto those who do NOT wish to live.
SHAME ON YOU
@tallard666 And you are advocating that every terminally ill person has to navigate a series of brutal choices. There is no pain free way through this.
Wtf is happening with Uk? Omg its full of people from outside of Europe.. its tragic and sad.. while crime have risen A LOT, specially agaisnt woman.
Communism. Call it what it is.
Why add. "specially against women"?
Crime against men is not important?
@inthegutterstaringathestars It is too. But gov gives a fck about both, men tend to be able to defend themselves much better. If you cant use any sort of self defense weapon but the criminals can then you are at a disadvantage. Stop the male crying, go fight and win and then woman will follow. Woman cant lead as men.. that is a 20 century experiment that will fail
Sir Keir Starmer has many principles. If you don’t like these he has others. Muslims do not recognise Jesus Christ as the true and Son of God, nor in the Virgin Birth. Isn’t that blasphemy? Nor do they regularly incant the Nicene Creed. Who is calling who a blasphemer?
Where is the Church in all of this? Apparently silent.
Cheering it on as some Anglican priests have done in debates. A lot of them are lost.
Who cares what the Church thinks?
Are you F kidding me??? Adverts for dying??!!! WTF
*adverts for the rights of the individual
I believe in Philip Nitschke's Sarco.
I could use some assistance right now
The reason why people get pissed off with this channel is because they are a left-wing channel. Spiked on line, discribe themselves as left wing, Wikipedia say spike is left wing. Spiked is pro immigration and more. The reason I stopped watching Spiked, I was confused by their podcasts on TH-cam with how issues were reported on.
Most channels referred to as "Far Right" are just disaffected left-wing.
Triggernometry, Konstantin Kisin, Jordan Peterson. They are not conservatives, they are just left-wingers who disagree with woke and have been excommunicated.
Left and right has almost become meaningless at this point. They don't remotely mean what they once meant.
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