I could watch this sort of stuff for hours! toolmaking is one of the most interesting trades one could do!!! It's - can't wait to get up & go to work in the morning type of interesting.
Great to have you back. I'd like to add one small point: in geometry, only straight lines and planes can be considered parallel. Lines and planes which are a constant distant distance apart, but which are not themselves straight, are equidistant but not parallel. Not to be too pedantic, but in order to think clearly, it helps to have your head on straight.
I have recently purchased an inexpensive (new) granite plate, calibrated AA. Its opened up a whole new world for me.Now, as Don has pointed out, I can test objects to see if they are flat. However, the nightmare is making a cube!A cube that is 90 degrees on ALL corners. Perfectly square at all points.I can grind a cube. test the cubes opposite face on the table to a 10th'. BUT, have I made a parallelogram type shape? Are the upright faces, perfectly square to the surface plate?You can take an engineers square to the side face and physically see a problem. (Gap at the top, no gap at bottom).If your dealing with THOU's, no problem. Use a feeler gauge.If you need to check the problem to 2 tenths or less and actually measure the piece, from bottom to top (up and down), so you can adjust the block for re grinding. That I have NOT found a solution to.Winding a height gauge up and down is no good unless you know the height gauge is 100% up right to a factor of nothing. Otherwise you could be measuring the deflection of the height gauge.I seriously would love to know how to measure bottom to top, with precision.TIP for curved pieces on a known flat surface table.Clean everything to the last.Place piece on table and gently twist it on the surface. Just touch the corner and rotate the piece.Turn it over and twist it again.If its bent you can feel the piece SPIN on the high spot in the middle, even if the piece is a thou off.You can tell your piece is curved in a instant and grinding can often cause curvature.My Thanks once again to Don, who has made me THINK about problems and to stride to achieve perfection.
This is a great learning experience for "Flatness & Parallelism" with GD&T Surface-plate Inspection. Thank You! T T (Tom) Vanderloop, Author, Mechanical Designer & Consultant: ATEA, AWS & SME-Life Membership/Leader
I LOVE IT! I am from Poland so we actually use metric system here, and it gets confusing very quickly when you have to switch from the world of milimeters/microns to 0.0001 of an inch... But anyways, I would really love to watch an in-depth explanation of how to measure perpendicular surfaces and potential factors that distort measurement. Thank you for your work!
So glad to see you're making more videos! Watching you, OxTools, and Abom79 has inspired me to apply for a toolmaker's apprenticeship. Your videos have been very informative and I've watched nearly every one of them! Thanks again!
you made my day ;> i build limit plug gauges by hand-lapping. sometimes i have to make an absolutly parallelism. that is realy a good show to understand what i have to do.
Nice to see you and Glen again. There are a lot of different factors to look at when measuring. Good demo on why the surface plate has to be flat to start with.
As always very well explained Don. And really happy your back.It took me a long time to learn, but blindly trusting anything new in the shop as being correct without a check to be sure will sooner or later ruin your day. Inaccuracy's can't be compensated for unless you know what and where they are.
thanks don, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise. I bought a abrasive machine company # 1 1/2 I think it's 1946 ish. I trying to make my world a little flatter.
bcbloc02 gauling can also happen on cast iron, granite being hard and non crystalline or metallic can prevent some possible gauling keeping tenth measurements more true. granite is easier to lap and certify to an a+ or a++
I had to grind these 16 tool steel cutting rings that were 8mm thick and the tolerance was 4 microns (0.004mm) and when these rings (10 inch in diameter) can back from hardening they worped and bent. The magnetic chuck would pull them flat but after I ground them they would ping back to the bent shape. I had to play around with the chuck to get them flat. So much work involved
Sahkram - I mean it sounds great in theory - it might force the object to recrystalize (if enough heat and time) and equalize in an unwarped state but what if there are still some tensions left that will warp the item even after it has been ground after some time? that would kind of defeat the purpose right?
Correct, and a better table for our surface plate other than a cart :) For the purpose of our demonstration, though, this worked just fine. Thanks for the message, and thanks again for watching!
Don thanks for a great video. I have a question. When a print calls out for flat but does not give a tolerance, what would be except-able on crs that will not be machined to make it more flat?
Thank you Don for taking the time to pass on your knowledge.
You're welcome, glad it's of value to you . Thanks again for watching!
I could watch this sort of stuff for hours! toolmaking is one of the most interesting trades one could do!!! It's - can't wait to get up & go to work in the morning type of interesting.
Great to have you back. I'd like to add one small point: in geometry, only straight lines and planes can be considered parallel. Lines and planes which are a constant distant distance apart, but which are not themselves straight, are equidistant but not parallel. Not to be too pedantic, but in order to think clearly, it helps to have your head on straight.
Right you are. Thanks for sharing, and thanks again for watching!
Curved lines can be parallel.
@@SuburbanToolInc Depends on the wording of the definition, you were not wrong I don't think.
I have recently purchased an inexpensive (new) granite plate, calibrated AA. Its opened up a whole new world for me.Now, as Don has pointed out, I can test objects to see if they are flat. However, the nightmare is making a cube!A cube that is 90 degrees on ALL corners. Perfectly square at all points.I can grind a cube. test the cubes opposite face on the table to a 10th'. BUT, have I made a parallelogram type shape? Are the upright faces, perfectly square to the surface plate?You can take an engineers square to the side face and physically see a problem. (Gap at the top, no gap at bottom).If your dealing with THOU's, no problem. Use a feeler gauge.If you need to check the problem to 2 tenths or less and actually measure the piece, from bottom to top (up and down), so you can adjust the block for re grinding. That I have NOT found a solution to.Winding a height gauge up and down is no good unless you know the height gauge is 100% up right to a factor of nothing. Otherwise you could be measuring the deflection of the height gauge.I seriously would love to know how to measure bottom to top, with precision.TIP for curved pieces on a known flat surface table.Clean everything to the last.Place piece on table and gently twist it on the surface. Just touch the corner and rotate the piece.Turn it over and twist it again.If its bent you can feel the piece SPIN on the high spot in the middle, even if the piece is a thou off.You can tell your piece is curved in a instant and grinding can often cause curvature.My Thanks once again to Don, who has made me THINK about problems and to stride to achieve perfection.
This is a great learning experience for "Flatness & Parallelism" with GD&T Surface-plate Inspection. Thank You!
T T (Tom) Vanderloop, Author, Mechanical Designer & Consultant: ATEA, AWS & SME-Life Membership/Leader
Thank you for your kind words.
This guy is amazing. He knows so much and even better, he can explain things clearly.
I LOVE IT! I am from Poland so we actually use metric system here, and it gets confusing very quickly when you have to switch from the world of milimeters/microns to 0.0001 of an inch... But anyways, I would really love to watch an in-depth explanation of how to measure perpendicular surfaces and potential factors that distort measurement. Thank you for your work!
So glad to see you're making more videos! Watching you, OxTools, and Abom79 has inspired me to apply for a toolmaker's apprenticeship. Your videos have been very informative and I've watched nearly every one of them! Thanks again!
you made my day ;>
i build limit plug gauges by hand-lapping.
sometimes i have to make an absolutly parallelism. that is realy a good show to understand what i have to do.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
Hi Glen and Don.
Great to have you back.
Thanks,
John
It's great to be back. Thanks for sticking with us, we really appreciate it.
Nice to see you and Glen again. There are a lot of different factors to look at when measuring. Good demo on why the surface plate has to be flat to start with.
As always very well explained Don. And really happy your back.It took me a long time to learn, but blindly trusting anything new in the shop as being correct without a check to be sure will sooner or later ruin your day. Inaccuracy's can't be compensated for unless you know what and where they are.
Good to see you back ....
happy to see that you are back making videos.
We're happy to be back. Thanks again for watching!
Great to see you again! Awesome Video!
Welcome back BOYS!!!, Great quick thought provoker. Thanks for the videos as always. Take Care.
You're welcome, thanks for sticking around!
Glen is like a mad scientist!! Cool dude
Good to see you back again
Thank you, it's good to be seen. Thanks for watching!
thanks don, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise. I bought a abrasive machine company # 1 1/2 I think it's 1946 ish. I trying to make my world a little flatter.
That will certainly do the trick! Thanks again for watching, I really appreciate the support.
Thanks Don. Enjoyed your very informative video and for passing on your experience and knowledge.
You're welcome, and thanks again for watching.
Glad to see you back making videos! I was wondering what if any advantages would a large cast iron surface plate have vs a granite surface plate?
bcbloc02 cast iron rusts, use granite if possible.
oils used to keep the cast surface in good condition can also skew a precise measurement.
bcbloc02 gauling can also happen on cast iron, granite being hard and non crystalline or metallic can prevent some possible gauling keeping tenth measurements more true. granite is easier to lap and certify to an a+ or a++
feliz año nuevo , un saludo desde Argentina.
Thanks a bunch, Don, for sharing with us! :)
You're welcome! Thank you for watching!
As always, tons of useful information.
Glad you found some use in it! Sorry for the late response, thanks again for watching.
I had to grind these 16 tool steel cutting rings that were 8mm thick and the tolerance was 4 microns (0.004mm) and when these rings (10 inch in diameter) can back from hardening they worped and bent. The magnetic chuck would pull them flat but after I ground them they would ping back to the bent shape. I had to play around with the chuck to get them flat. So much work involved
Right you are, it's certainly much more challenging than it would seem. Thanks for your comment, and thanks again for watching!
a way to help keep flatness during hardening is to stack them and clamp them between two thick flat pieces, this will minimizes distortion.
Sahkram - I mean it sounds great in theory - it might force the object to recrystalize (if enough heat and time) and equalize in an unwarped state but what if there are still some tensions left that will warp the item even after it has been ground after some time? that would kind of defeat the purpose right?
chronok not really as they would wear out before it warped. I make them every now and then so they do get replaced when they get blunt.
thansk for the info mate
That is a great video for Students, well done.
I'm glad you think so, feel free to share it to any teachers, students, or apprentices. We're here to teach. Thanks again for watching.
Nice to see you back again. We all know why you have a white smock... But what about Glen ????
Glen likes to stay clean too!
Great discussion!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
Great to see you boys back!!!! Have you ever found a parallel to have an S bend in it Don?
Very interesting. Thank you!
Thanku so much
Hi, it's good to see you. M.K.S.
It's good to be seen. Thanks again for watching!
Tq.
the tolerances you are talking about surely would require,what we called a "standards room" with a standard temperature.
Correct, and a better table for our surface plate other than a cart :) For the purpose of our demonstration, though, this worked just fine. Thanks for the message, and thanks again for watching!
Please provide elaborate information regarding how to measure size of NPT TAP. PLEASE
Don,
I enjoy the Metrology portion of machine shop work and wold be interested in seeing how to check for the parallel being perpendicular.thanks
You would run test indicator up the side of the parallel, you would need height gage that is calibrated for checking perpendicularity.
can you make a video on lapping Gage surfaces for wringing
whats the name of that tool you used to measure flatness
Does anyone know of any video's that demonstrate rounding mandrels with the "3 rounds method"?
So how to check the squareness? How people made the world-first perfect 90 degrees angle?
Here is Part 1 on checking for squareness, Part 2 should be linked after this video: th-cam.com/video/LOaAMvGjUTk/w-d-xo.html
Thank you. But how did mankind made the world-first precise cylinder-square?
Maybe we were given it by aliens? ( I'm just joking. ; ))) )
Nice video. But I like when you show some interesting work on the mashine.:))) Thank colleague for you chanel.
Great lesson Don! I like your height gage what kind is it? I'm a tool junky haha!
When will you do a video about keeping things perpendicular particularly on the grinder
We actually already have something in mind for this, stay tuned.
Don thanks for a great video. I have a question. When a print calls out for flat but does not give a tolerance, what would be except-able on crs that will not be machined to make it more flat?
You need to check with your steel supplier
Are the tools you are making available in Europe, guys ? Great videos!
Yes they are.
It would be nice if you share a link or something like that....Thanks!
subtool.com
Wow, wondering wich applications require such precision, not automotive I guess
what is a perfect surface?
Dave Goodrich , the one that is within tolerance for the job you do... Every job requires different level of tools and accuracy
"Lambs to the cosmic slaughter!!"
dad taught me these things as a child
I don’t understand how tenths change to millionths?
Patience and skill, I'm going to the moon
Going to the moon is the crazy part, patience, skill, crazy!
..