Back when the Mig-29 was initially going to be added, it was going to have the objectively better flight model. To get the release version F-16 to compete you had to do 3-5 turns and loops to get the advantage. Pairing that with the R-73 with even it’s current version (the dev server version was so impossible to flare you could turn your engine off and drop your entire flare load and it would still hit) against a plane not only with a rigid FM but only 60 countermeasures would’ve led to an unavoidable dominance in favour of Russia.
I remember the F16 being maneuverable but locked up beyond mach, like it became a brick; and that is why gaijin removed the AOA limiter on it to begin with, but as always, like it should, F16 won in the 2 circle while 29 won in the 1 circle.
@@Silent_WTand now the F16 behave like a UFO being better in both 2c and 1c. F16 UFO problems have been going on for a while since they can’t FLCS instability modeled
I think there is a more elegant solution: give the MiG-29-13, MiG-23MLD and Yak-141 R-73s they could use (MiGs in reality, Yak - tested with them), but take away the MiG-29 R-27ERs. And after that change the BRs to 12.3 for the MiG-29 and Yak-141, and 11.7 for the Mig-23MLD. The MLD will take its rightful place, but won't be bait in rare fights at 12.7, and the USSR will get its dogfighter and light support fighter at 12.3. You'll have a choice of either only 4 of the best missiles in the game on a weirdish platform, or 6 missiles but a much shorter engagement range.
yak-141 defiantly not i personally don't even think it should be in game since it never was equipped with weapons guns or radars, yes their are photos of parked ones with weapons but those never flew, and the fact that Russia gets stuff 10-20 years newer than the American counterparts in both ground and air. (i disagree with the idea that fictional vehicles should be added into war thunder)
@@Silent_WTYes but they nerfed the 9Ls through the ground at a similar time (take the current state of 9Ls), so it’s unreasonable to say that them performing better before the update would justify this.
The thing is if the early variants of the mig29 get the r73 then its useless to get the smt or the g cause they are basicly the same plane with one being newer but worse flight Performance and the other being the same but with slightly stronger engines. And its easy to defeat the er you have to stay low an manuver a little.
Not really, the smt has another suite of upgrades that make it a viable option to go for, it has a vastly better radar, r77 capability, should also have 2 degrees more of standard AoA limit and full ground ordinance (still lacking any of its optical pods it can take but when they come, which bug reports have been accepted for, they will also finally gain access to all the standard Russian laser guided atg weapons too making it much more effective as a modern multirole fighter). I have also heard it might potentially have an fcs beyond the semi mechanical base Migs however we dont have enough information to make any solid claims about this currently. 9.13 should have gotten the r73 a while ago and moved up to top tier same as the G, if gaijin wants to keep a 29 at 12.0 either let it be the German one or add a 9.12 for russia and limit 9.12's armament to r60's and r27(not E variants). Regardless there are more mig29's to be added yet so we can be sure many of them will be foldered with reduced grind required
@@skilz2kil528 damn man bro wrote the whole damn bibel and most of it i already know! The comment i wrote is pretty old, still i will reply later when i have more time
I think it was a mistake to put the mig29smt instead of just giving the r73 to the mig29-9-13 and 9-12 because now Russia has a mig29 that turns well but doesn't have r73 and another that doesn't turn well but has r73 and the Germany has a fucking mig29 that has both r73 and turn good gaijin just did a joke
Honestly, the cope and seethe from the "Big 3" have been the root cause of many of this games faults... A bunch of US/German/Russian mains (Especially US though) who just bitch and complain about stuff they don't fully understand. You know it's bad when 80% of the complaining you run across can be countered simply with "Skill Issue" The story of the ER coming early is literally US mains bitching, Gaijin listening and replacing it with ER to still give Mig-29 something, and US mains bitching anyway. It never ends...
Yeah. US mains are annoying and pure cringe. The Soviet mig 29 and su27 got the FM nerfed to the ground and the US mains are still crying about the r27er. Like just shut up. We had to deal with the fact that none of the Russian 4th gen’s can win dogfights for almost a year now.
Isn’t it’s FM still a little sad? It stands no chance versus an F-16, and is at a disadvantage versus the F-14 in a dogfight. It’s still super fast though. Maybe they could improve its FM, give it R-73s, remove the 27ERs and move it to 12.3. It’s in a weird spot currently. It’s got 2 insane missiles and the rest just suck.
I mean the FM aint that bad tbh, for the current BR that is. Wins against f16/f14 in the first circle and that is it. I mean its literally no different from the mig29G and that is at top tier with its full loadout.
@@wongarnold2879 yeah it’s pretty sad. The MiG-29 used to be capable, but not anymore. The Su-27 was released in a poor state. Maybe it’s the fault of the instructor because some people say it does fine in sim, but either way it needs to be improved.
@@Boris_The_Turtle I don’t want to play or grind new soviet 4th gen’s, if gaijin keep giving us r27er flying bricks. It’s just not fun and is super boring.
Yea I’d rather have r73 with 27R on the MiG 29 but we got 2 ER and four mid missiles compared to everything else. However the 29A can’t really go above 12.3 12.7 with r60’s and nerfed FM you can tango but everything you fight will just be better. So gaijin should raise the BR TO 13.0 and raise the 29 and F15A to 12.7.
just wait for the four strikes video to drop where he whinges about 'another brainless russian main' bear in mind that's what he called me for having this pfp despite not playing russian air in the slightest lmao
People keep acting like the MiG-29 wouldn't be an issue; that the R-73 could've been balanced at the time of its arrival compared to now. Let me remind all of you that the MiG-29 and Su-27's Flightmodels are still super terrible as of now and those crazy R-73 shots never happen because in a dogfight these Russian planes will never have enough energy or AOA to launch R-73s at you. If we go back to apex predators the MiG-29A's flight model was objectively better than the F-16A "Oh just rate fight him", that's a death sentence in top tier and rate fighting a MiG-29 would take forever to do because it could still hold its energy very well, combine that with straight better missile upgrades, R-27R and R-73 > Aim-7M and Aim-9L, and HMD and it wouldn't even be a contest. The only strength the F-16A would have at that point would be CAS but that's not what Top tier ARB players care about. There was nothing Gaijin could do to balance these planes other than not adding the F-16A at all instead adding the F-15A as a better counter but ofc we have to have the DCS comparison: F-15 vs Su-27, F-18 vs Su-33, F-16 vs MiG-29 standard for updates
1. You can't and won't have crazy r-73 shots because there are no prolonged dogfights in top tier, so flight model doesnt matter too much in this context. 2. The F-16 can easily rate fight a mig-29 and im talking about the days of apex. 3. Aim9L had IRCCM for the longest time and even before Apex, actually it got removed when just a bit after Apex dropped. 4. F15 would have been demolished by the 29 in war thunder, at least in ARB so that would be useless and players would even complain more ( I know this because I tested both in a controlled dogfight )
@@Silent_WT 1. Flight performance still matters a lot in top tier. The ability to hold energy in high AOA turns lobbing off missiles as you fly through fireballs, responsive controls and rolls, and there are still moments in top tier where there are 3-1 players left on one team where flight performance becomes a necessity to win game ending dogfights. 2. With full real controls the MiG-29 wipes the floor on the F-16 and MiG-29 player can still reset the 2 circle so if the MiG-29 player is smart enough it will be very hard to simply "rate fight the MiG-29" 3. The Aim-9L never had IRCM, it was a flare responsiveness value in the stat card that was very high on the Aim-9L, before the R-73 came to the game the Magic 2 had the highest flare responsiveness value in the game while the Aim-9L was a close second 4. The F-15A would be a very balanced counter to the MiG-29 and would solve the R-73 missile issue, 2 R-27 and 4 R-73 vs 4 Aim-7M and 4 Aim-9L would be a well balanced quantity vs quality argument. The F-15 would be faster with better energy while the MiG-29 would be more agile with better turn performance. Both aircraft are strikingly similar already and the F-15A would have more strengths over the MiG-29 than the F-16A did but that's all my thoughts.
@@Silent_WT Also not to mention that at the time of Apex predators most aircraft had 60 flares so a MiG-29 with R-73s would exhaust everyone's flare supply fast hence why a 240 flare F-15A would've been better than a 60 flare F-16A
This is kinda wrong and not exactly what happened, the mig 29 when it was first added had a horrible w/L ration, like the f15 so they decided to give the mig 29 r 27ers and that changed the game, so how are u.s mains the cause of the r27er being added if the Russian players stats tell a different tell? Bc I remember how it actually happened
@@Silent_WT a.k.a "cherry pick" facts, like the R-73 fiasco (that was true) and forgot to mention (1)the extra bad performance of the R-27R, that tho this day is worst then even the R-23R... and (2)the bad/buged radar and (3) FM, that the MiG-29 had at launch... 1-3 ware "imortant parts".
Like any of the tech around the would would actually do anything agianst the US but but but Russian tech is good !!! Yea I love Russian tech because it looks sexy imo but the current war says their tech is absolute shit.
The MiG-29A had neither the R-73 nor the R-27ER when it entered service (1983). The R-73 entered service one year later in 1984, and the R-27ER 7 years later in 1990. The F-16A had the AIM-9L and AIM-7F when it entered service in 1980. The AIM-9L entered service in 1977, and the AIM-7F in 1976. Giving the MiG-29 the R-27R would be generous to begin with, because it did not carry the R-27R when it entered service either in 1987.
they fitted the mig-29 9.13 with R-73s and ERs/ETs, it can have a loadout with those or you can even have a loadout with R-60s,R73s and one ET and one ER. that is historical too you can look it up.
@@Silent_WT yes, the MiG-29A carried the R-73 and R-27ER, however what I’m saying is that it did not carry them when it initially entered service, because when it initially entered service, the missiles weren’t.
From my time playing u.s mains are the worst they always complain about Russian and dont even play any other tree to see that they struggle to and there are time that the u.s tree is Superior like the f104 and how they are the top dog for a while in the br range. I'm not on right now I think it's 9.3. it really feels like they want ever other country nerfed to the ground so they can roll around be be over powered and not die to anything.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | กลุ่มสีเหลืองวันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I_FdxGT3WV4/mqdefault.jpg)
Back when the Mig-29 was initially going to be added, it was going to have the objectively better flight model. To get the release version F-16 to compete you had to do 3-5 turns and loops to get the advantage.
Pairing that with the R-73 with even it’s current version (the dev server version was so impossible to flare you could turn your engine off and drop your entire flare load and it would still hit) against a plane not only with a rigid FM but only 60 countermeasures would’ve led to an unavoidable dominance in favour of Russia.
I remember the F16 being maneuverable but locked up beyond mach, like it became a brick; and that is why gaijin removed the AOA limiter on it to begin with, but as always, like it should, F16 won in the 2 circle while 29 won in the 1 circle.
@@Silent_WTand now the F16 behave like a UFO being better in both 2c and 1c.
F16 UFO problems have been going on for a while since they can’t FLCS instability modeled
@@Silent_WT I remember when the F-16 barely turned 2 degrees a second above 900km/h and would struggle also at
That’s honestly one of the most brutally honest and logical opinions about this situation that I heard in a while
Don't let them know the french 530D bias 🤫
👀 time to make a video! xDD jk
honestly if the mig-29 9-13 should be raised in br it should probably get r-73 missles because it goes up against aim-9m and r-73 magic 2 and so on
The bureaucrat strikes again. Good content as always!!!!!!!! Them R-60 shots were nasty!!!!
Yes I fired them from my Yacht, it has the war thunder logo on it x)
xDDDDD@@Silent_WT
@@Silent_WT the habibi prince of the snail gets all the silver
I think there is a more elegant solution: give the MiG-29-13, MiG-23MLD and Yak-141 R-73s they could use (MiGs in reality, Yak - tested with them), but take away the MiG-29 R-27ERs. And after that change the BRs to 12.3 for the MiG-29 and Yak-141, and 11.7 for the Mig-23MLD.
The MLD will take its rightful place, but won't be bait in rare fights at 12.7, and the USSR will get its dogfighter and light support fighter at 12.3. You'll have a choice of either only 4 of the best missiles in the game on a weirdish platform, or 6 missiles but a much shorter engagement range.
Totally agree with this expect for the MiG 23mld one cuz some planes at 10.7 doesn’t have flares
yak-141 defiantly not i personally don't even think it should be in game since it never was equipped with weapons guns or radars, yes their are photos of parked ones with weapons but those never flew, and the fact that Russia gets stuff 10-20 years newer than the American counterparts in both ground and air. (i disagree with the idea that fictional vehicles should be added into war thunder)
@@BAM_BAM_XCII mean who cares it’s a game lol
I would be up for that just as a test to see how things will turn out really.
@@mostafamohammedahmed3404 Planes on 10.7 are already meeting R-73s. Even 10.3 planes do this, because the Su-25T's combat rating is 11.3.
The aim9L was not close to irccm when mig29 first came out.
it had irccm not close to.
The non toxic DEFYN version, I like it😊😊
Dyfen being toxic? Naw
glad you enjoyed!
12.0 is cracked right now its like 70% downtiers
11.0 is pain and suffering it's 70% up tiers
why 12.7 for the 9.12 mig? not 12.3 like the F-15?
The mig-29G has access to R-73s just like the SMT that is why
What would you say to it getting R73s and having the ERs removed?
On this plane, noo right now at 12.0 R-73s would be potent at the BR.
At least they learn to fly low and learn to use their plane
Fox1 Aim120Cs vs Aim7s. . . Lmfao what a godamn joke 🤣
USA main got what they wanted, as always. but this time they didn`t liked it xD
They surely did hahahaah
So what was gaijin gonna give other nations if they gave soviets r73? nothing?
At the time? aim9Ls had IRCCM on them, making them a slightly worse pulling, less flare resistant M.
@@Silent_WTYes but they nerfed the 9Ls through the ground at a similar time (take the current state of 9Ls), so it’s unreasonable to say that them performing better before the update would justify this.
The thing is if the early variants of the mig29 get the r73 then its useless to get the smt or the g cause they are basicly the same plane with one being newer but worse flight Performance and the other being the same but with slightly stronger engines. And its easy to defeat the er you have to stay low an manuver a little.
Well gaijin should select the planes they want to add with more care.
Not really, the smt has another suite of upgrades that make it a viable option to go for, it has a vastly better radar, r77 capability, should also have 2 degrees more of standard AoA limit and full ground ordinance (still lacking any of its optical pods it can take but when they come, which bug reports have been accepted for, they will also finally gain access to all the standard Russian laser guided atg weapons too making it much more effective as a modern multirole fighter). I have also heard it might potentially have an fcs beyond the semi mechanical base Migs however we dont have enough information to make any solid claims about this currently. 9.13 should have gotten the r73 a while ago and moved up to top tier same as the G, if gaijin wants to keep a 29 at 12.0 either let it be the German one or add a 9.12 for russia and limit 9.12's armament to r60's and r27(not E variants).
Regardless there are more mig29's to be added yet so we can be sure many of them will be foldered with reduced grind required
@@skilz2kil528 damn man bro wrote the whole damn bibel and most of it i already know! The comment i wrote is pretty old, still i will reply later when i have more time
"Accidentally"
"Accidentally"
I think it was a mistake to put the mig29smt instead of just giving the r73 to the mig29-9-13 and 9-12 because now Russia has a mig29 that turns well but doesn't have r73 and another that doesn't turn well but has r73 and the Germany has a fucking mig29 that has both r73 and turn good gaijin just did a joke
I like when US main crying
Honestly, the cope and seethe from the "Big 3" have been the root cause of many of this games faults... A bunch of US/German/Russian mains (Especially US though) who just bitch and complain about stuff they don't fully understand. You know it's bad when 80% of the complaining you run across can be countered simply with "Skill Issue"
The story of the ER coming early is literally US mains bitching, Gaijin listening and replacing it with ER to still give Mig-29 something, and US mains bitching anyway. It never ends...
Yeah. US mains are annoying and pure cringe. The Soviet mig 29 and su27 got the FM nerfed to the ground and the US mains are still crying about the r27er. Like just shut up. We had to deal with the fact that none of the Russian 4th gen’s can win dogfights for almost a year now.
@@wongarnold2879 when do you dogfight in toptier?
@@B83N SIM.
Isn’t it’s FM still a little sad? It stands no chance versus an F-16, and is at a disadvantage versus the F-14 in a dogfight. It’s still super fast though.
Maybe they could improve its FM, give it R-73s, remove the 27ERs and move it to 12.3. It’s in a weird spot currently. It’s got 2 insane missiles and the rest just suck.
I mean the FM aint that bad tbh, for the current BR that is. Wins against f16/f14 in the first circle and that is it. I mean its literally no different from the mig29G and that is at top tier with its full loadout.
What?? Both the mig 29 and su27 got nerfed to the ground, while the f16 got buffed with no g limiter.
NONE OF THE SOVIET 4TH GENS CAN DOGFIGHT.
@@wongarnold2879 yeah it’s pretty sad. The MiG-29 used to be capable, but not anymore. The Su-27 was released in a poor state. Maybe it’s the fault of the instructor because some people say it does fine in sim, but either way it needs to be improved.
@@Boris_The_Turtle I don’t want to play or grind new soviet 4th gen’s, if gaijin keep giving us r27er flying bricks.
It’s just not fun and is super boring.
Sim is just filled with grippen and f16. Because of the deck hugging and dogfighting meta.
Yea I’d rather have r73 with 27R on the MiG 29 but we got 2 ER and four mid missiles compared to everything else. However the 29A can’t really go above 12.3 12.7 with r60’s and nerfed FM you can tango but everything you fight will just be better. So gaijin should raise the BR TO 13.0 and raise the 29 and F15A to 12.7.
With 27r you can't do 50 km kill .it has no energy to fly far
just wait for the four strikes video to drop where he whinges about 'another brainless russian main' bear in mind that's what he called me for having this pfp despite not playing russian air in the slightest lmao
People keep acting like the MiG-29 wouldn't be an issue; that the R-73 could've been balanced at the time of its arrival compared to now. Let me remind all of you that the MiG-29 and Su-27's Flightmodels are still super terrible as of now and those crazy R-73 shots never happen because in a dogfight these Russian planes will never have enough energy or AOA to launch R-73s at you. If we go back to apex predators the MiG-29A's flight model was objectively better than the F-16A "Oh just rate fight him", that's a death sentence in top tier and rate fighting a MiG-29 would take forever to do because it could still hold its energy very well, combine that with straight better missile upgrades, R-27R and R-73 > Aim-7M and Aim-9L, and HMD and it wouldn't even be a contest. The only strength the F-16A would have at that point would be CAS but that's not what Top tier ARB players care about. There was nothing Gaijin could do to balance these planes other than not adding the F-16A at all instead adding the F-15A as a better counter but ofc we have to have the DCS comparison: F-15 vs Su-27, F-18 vs Su-33, F-16 vs MiG-29 standard for updates
I can rate fight a 29 easily
1. You can't and won't have crazy r-73 shots because there are no prolonged dogfights in top tier, so flight model doesnt matter too much in this context.
2. The F-16 can easily rate fight a mig-29 and im talking about the days of apex.
3. Aim9L had IRCCM for the longest time and even before Apex, actually it got removed when just a bit after Apex dropped.
4. F15 would have been demolished by the 29 in war thunder, at least in ARB so that would be useless and players would even complain more ( I know this because I tested both in a controlled dogfight )
@@Silent_WT I agree, 29 looses to an F15 easily lol.
@@Silent_WT 1. Flight performance still matters a lot in top tier. The ability to hold energy in high AOA turns lobbing off missiles as you fly through fireballs, responsive controls and rolls, and there are still moments in top tier where there are 3-1 players left on one team where flight performance becomes a necessity to win game ending dogfights.
2. With full real controls the MiG-29 wipes the floor on the F-16 and MiG-29 player can still reset the 2 circle so if the MiG-29 player is smart enough it will be very hard to simply "rate fight the MiG-29"
3. The Aim-9L never had IRCM, it was a flare responsiveness value in the stat card that was very high on the Aim-9L, before the R-73 came to the game the Magic 2 had the highest flare responsiveness value in the game while the Aim-9L was a close second
4. The F-15A would be a very balanced counter to the MiG-29 and would solve the R-73 missile issue, 2 R-27 and 4 R-73 vs 4 Aim-7M and 4 Aim-9L would be a well balanced quantity vs quality argument. The F-15 would be faster with better energy while the MiG-29 would be more agile with better turn performance. Both aircraft are strikingly similar already and the F-15A would have more strengths over the MiG-29 than the F-16A did but that's all my thoughts.
@@Silent_WT Also not to mention that at the time of Apex predators most aircraft had 60 flares so a MiG-29 with R-73s would exhaust everyone's flare supply fast hence why a 240 flare F-15A would've been better than a 60 flare F-16A
So the American mains cried about it, then it doesn't get added with what it's supposed to have, gets a even more OP missile, then compression hits
pretty much.
waaaaaa op waaaaaaaa 😢😢😢
Compression at its finest
Why is tom flying the mig29
i was busy with irl so i asked for his help
the f4s has hmd
True but its limited to premium and aim9H doesnt have all aspect sadly :/ so its kinda, kinda meh
@@Silent_WT F4J has hmd
This is kinda wrong and not exactly what happened, the mig 29 when it was first added had a horrible w/L ration, like the f15 so they decided to give the mig 29 r 27ers and that changed the game, so how are u.s mains the cause of the r27er being added if the Russian players stats tell a different tell? Bc I remember how it actually happened
Yeah I condensed the story to highlight the important parts.
@@Silent_WT a.k.a "cherry pick" facts, like the R-73 fiasco (that was true) and forgot to mention (1)the extra bad performance of the R-27R, that tho this day is worst then even the R-23R... and (2)the bad/buged radar and (3) FM, that the MiG-29 had at launch... 1-3 ware "imortant parts".
Like any of the tech around the would would actually do anything agianst the US
but but but Russian tech is good !!!
Yea I love Russian tech because it looks sexy imo but the current war says their tech is absolute shit.
The MiG-29A had neither the R-73 nor the R-27ER when it entered service (1983). The R-73 entered service one year later in 1984, and the R-27ER 7 years later in 1990.
The F-16A had the AIM-9L and AIM-7F when it entered service in 1980. The AIM-9L entered service in 1977, and the AIM-7F in 1976.
Giving the MiG-29 the R-27R would be generous to begin with, because it did not carry the R-27R when it entered service either in 1987.
they fitted the mig-29 9.13 with R-73s and ERs/ETs, it can have a loadout with those or you can even have a loadout with R-60s,R73s and one ET and one ER. that is historical too you can look it up.
@@Silent_WT yes, the MiG-29A carried the R-73 and R-27ER, however what I’m saying is that it did not carry them when it initially entered service, because when it initially entered service, the missiles weren’t.
@@ANDREWISNTSOGOODER oh yeah I see now sorry for the misunderstanding.
From my time playing u.s mains are the worst they always complain about Russian and dont even play any other tree to see that they struggle to and there are time that the u.s tree is Superior like the f104 and how they are the top dog for a while in the br range. I'm not on right now I think it's 9.3. it really feels like they want ever other country nerfed to the ground so they can roll around be be over powered and not die to anything.