A lot of these tips have helped me with modeling transition era BR in Trainz Simulator. Earlier today, I was playing a session on the Settle & Carlisle route, and had all of the fitted wagons up front, and four ex-PO 8-planks at the very rear, while running a pickup goods between Appleby and Horton (with a trip up the Hawes branch, since the session I was playing was focused on dropping cattle vans at Kirkby Stephen, Garsdale, and Hawes, also picking up other loose wagons, then continuing on to Horton to pick up lime powder and limestone, while unloading the aforementioned 8-planks of coal to fire the kilns; TRS2019 has the option to edit trains while in Driver, which is how I was able to add extra work, swap the Fowler 4F for a Stanier 8F, and put a Jinty as a shunter at Horton).
I can only say what everyone else has said before me, this a great insight on how freight trains should be put together, i did know a few bits and bobs. but this will be a even greater help in the future. thanks again Tony
Thanks for a very informative video. A couple of points I picked up on though. 'Shockvans and Opens' were vacuum braked vehicles and could be used to increase the 'fitted head' of frieght trains if desired. Barrier wagons attached to tank wagons may be loaded with non combustible materials, eg. brick, sand, ores, but not coal. Gunpowder vans are quite popular too, they also have barrier wagons when loaded, and should be placed near the middle of a train. When loaded there was also a limit to the number of vans coupled together. Many years ago I wrote a rule book for a model railway, with extracts from the 1936 GWR Rule Book and appendix. It was fun to do, and and operate to. The rule books would have been very similar to all of the big four, but the appendices would have varied to suit each location. It served me well when working on BR in the 1980s too.
This is just the job, as my main interest is in modelling freight trains - and, d'you know, in all the modelling books / magazines I've read, these points have never even been mentioned - so many thanks!
Plenty of good advice, and the art of goods train operation is a black art to the container world. Cattle wagons were all fitted, and screw linked, and when loaded would travel behind the loco, but when empty, or as often in later years loaded with perishables such as broccoli, could travel further down the train, but piped up. Empty wagons were often included (such as Hibars) in express freights when there was an urgent demand and a local shortage. Cheers.
Thank you for the info. I haven't got a clue. I haven't even got my track laid yet. Still waiting for my purpose built train room to be started. I have boxes & boxes of model train equipment waiting to be unpacked from a recent move to our new home. But, watching your videos has brought home to me the need to get things up & running.
A highly informative video covering many important aspects of freight train operations often either not understood or simply missed by some modellers - Well Done in assisting with the propagation of railway knowledge! 🙂 In support of your video, it is worth reminding modellers that the Southern’s headcode discs carried route information rather than the train’s classification. 😉 As for the direction of a sheeted van (etc) there are so many examples of things that took place on the railways that shouldn't have and I completely agree with your sentiments. It is always wise never to use the phrase 'this never happened' as a contradictory example will inevitability emerge soon after! 😀 Look forward to more videos.... 😺
Just a few more things : 1.The need for runner wagons depends on the degree of overhang. Anything less than 1 ft 6 in doesn't need a runner wagon. 2.Trains conveying explosives must not carry any other hazardous materials or highly flammable liquids. Nor can bolster wagons loaded with metals be coupled to liad tank wagons. 3. Barrowmore MRG and Limit of Shunt have lots of interesting documents for raikway modellers.
Just discovered your channel, and subbed. Bite size, informative videos such as this are very helpful. Especially for those wanting to make the move from train set to model railway. Another one commonly seen, is trains ignoring signals, or none at all.
Hi. Thanks for your sub. I regret that, until now, I have only had static signals so for Yarslow, making them work will be a big challenge! Especially as some of them will be complex.
Hi, on one video you asked for more video ideas, could you please explain the function of all the signs and boxes and small buildings, found in the yards, depots and along the tracks, in the early days of steam and later into early BR days, if you can, I realy enjoy your commentary and all the great knowledge you share with us all. Many thanks, David from New Zealand
Nice work - as you say this is an express freight, so really more applicable to longer distance freight. If you're modelling a local line, then the rules may be discarded in favor of practicality - with wagons placed in a sequence to allow easy drop off with the minimum of shunting.
Certainly Neil - especially for the local "Pick-up" or stopping freight trains. The wagons were put in the order that made shunting easy. It would run under J or K lamps so just wander down the line.
Thanks for the information on goods formations - will make a list of your points and try to follow them. Harking back to your video on pick up goods from 2016 which I just found the other day, you said you would explain why slot 6 on your wagon table was empty. Maybe I missed something but I couldn't find an explanation anywhere. Slowly working my way through your videos and finding them most interesting. Regards Peter
Hi Peter. Each train runs with a specific number of "blocks" - say 5. Some contain 4 wagons, some 3, some 2 etc etc. Some are empty. The blocks each contain specific wagons and this make up does not change. For example, block 1 is a cattle wagon and a 16T open. When the train runs, it always contains 5 blocks but the number and consist differs every time. The use of empty wagons helps the length of the train vary and has the added advantage that it does not cost anything to add the block to the system!! Hope that helps. Barry
Excellent introduction to the subject. Essentially this is the difference between playing with trains -- run it if it looks nice -- and railway modelling, where the aim is to accurately reproduce as much of the real thing as possible. You can do a little research or a lot, depending on what makes you happy, but once you know some details it seems -- to me -- silly not to incorporate them if you can. On the other hand, as when I started out with Hornby Dublo, ignorance is bliss. Though even then I was mildly irritated by having to operate more than one wagon with the same running number...
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 David Jenkinson called it 'historical modelling.' My point is that even for historical modellers, if you don't know the rules you feel no pain -- but once you've discovered a rule then following it gives you additional satisfaction.
In addition on model railways, do not put heavy wagons on the end of light trains. Physics dictate tension load will take the easiest path independent of where the rails go and cause derailments. Something that happens on a regular basis in the US with empty well cars in the middle of full trains. Also the wagon carrying the plate, death trap, Beighton train accident in WW2, caused by plate being dislodged and slewed out of running gauge into live line running gauge. Large loads require restraint in all directions and be inspected regularly for cold or heat generated effects. In our area we had a regular industrial gas train with barrier wagon on each end with fire fighting equipment. (also 1500v electric locos) ran for years till they closed Woodhead and the steel works.
Hi Barry - That was absolutely fascinating, not long enough, keep them coming please. Looking forwards to having trains running and you telling me what is right and what is wrong as it is the only way I am going to learn. One thing comes to mind, what if the train is pulling a number of oil tanks, how does that work? Regards Chris
I think empty tankers that carry flamables might need a barrier even when empty. They would have some residue?? I will look into this and come back to you.
Hi - a very good question! Some vans were found to have rooves that leaked in the rain when running on faster trains and others leaked around doors and vents. The solution, when conveying something that had to be kept dry, was to sheet the van - usually a decision made by the porter/foreman in charge of loading. It would have been unusual to have spare vans lying about so they had to work with the vehicles they had. Hope that helps.
As much as I enjoyed your post, I wish I hadn’t seen it, cos now I’m Analysing the Consists of the the other train videos I watch, usually to Relax, but Now it’s caused me Stress - I will probably need counselling 😢😅
Hi Lennon - my Bite Size Bits video on Classes of Train from March 2022 gives the various AVERAGE speeds for freight train classes. Do bear in mind that I model late 50's/early 60's so modern trains run a lot faster and older trains may run slower.
@yarslowmodelrailway1 nice one thank you. I'll check that out. I've been working my way through them in a non-chronological order. Enjoying the series so far!
A lot of these tips have helped me with modeling transition era BR in Trainz Simulator. Earlier today, I was playing a session on the Settle & Carlisle route, and had all of the fitted wagons up front, and four ex-PO 8-planks at the very rear, while running a pickup goods between Appleby and Horton (with a trip up the Hawes branch, since the session I was playing was focused on dropping cattle vans at Kirkby Stephen, Garsdale, and Hawes, also picking up other loose wagons, then continuing on to Horton to pick up lime powder and limestone, while unloading the aforementioned 8-planks of coal to fire the kilns; TRS2019 has the option to edit trains while in Driver, which is how I was able to add extra work, swap the Fowler 4F for a Stanier 8F, and put a Jinty as a shunter at Horton).
Hi. Modellers can learn a lot about operation, speed etc from TrainSims programmes.
I can only say what everyone else has said before me, this a great insight on how freight trains should be put together, i did know a few bits and bobs. but this will be a even greater help in the future. thanks again Tony
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for a very informative video. A couple of points I picked up on though. 'Shockvans and Opens' were vacuum braked vehicles and could be used to increase the 'fitted head' of frieght trains if desired. Barrier wagons attached to tank wagons may be loaded with non combustible materials, eg. brick, sand, ores, but not coal. Gunpowder vans are quite popular too, they also have barrier wagons when loaded, and should be placed near the middle of a train. When loaded there was also a limit to the number of vans coupled together. Many years ago I wrote a rule book for a model railway, with extracts from the 1936 GWR Rule Book and appendix. It was fun to do, and and operate to. The rule books would have been very similar to all of the big four, but the appendices would have varied to suit each location. It served me well when working on BR in the 1980s too.
Thanks Robert - every day is a school day as they say!!!
This is just the job, as my main interest is in modelling freight trains - and, d'you know, in all the modelling books / magazines I've read, these points have never even been mentioned - so many thanks!
Thanks for your comment
Plenty of good advice, and the art of goods train operation is a black art to the container world.
Cattle wagons were all fitted, and screw linked, and when loaded would travel behind the loco, but when empty, or as often in later years loaded with perishables such as broccoli, could travel further down the train, but piped up. Empty wagons were often included (such as Hibars) in express freights when there was an urgent demand and a local shortage. Cheers.
Thanks for your added information - every day is a school day!!
Lovely short video on wagon formations 👍🏻
Glad you liked it
Thank you for the info. I haven't got a clue. I haven't even got my track laid yet. Still waiting for my purpose built train room to be started. I have boxes & boxes of model train equipment waiting to be unpacked from a recent move to our new home. But, watching your videos has brought home to me the need to get things up & running.
Hi James. I am so with you - you are where I was in 2019/20. Keep on my friend, it will all come together!!
A highly informative video covering many important aspects of freight train operations often either not understood or simply missed by some modellers - Well Done in assisting with the propagation of railway knowledge! 🙂
In support of your video, it is worth reminding modellers that the Southern’s headcode discs carried route information rather than the train’s classification. 😉
As for the direction of a sheeted van (etc) there are so many examples of things that took place on the railways that shouldn't have and I completely agree with your sentiments. It is always wise never to use the phrase 'this never happened' as a contradictory example will inevitability emerge soon after! 😀
Look forward to more videos.... 😺
Hi. Not an expert on SR headcodes so thanks for sharing.
Great video, clearly put. It’s added some really useful stuff into the odd bits I already knew. Thanks for that.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just a few more things :
1.The need for runner wagons depends on the degree of overhang. Anything less than 1 ft 6 in doesn't need a runner wagon.
2.Trains conveying explosives must not carry any other hazardous materials or highly flammable liquids. Nor can bolster wagons loaded with metals be coupled to liad tank wagons.
3. Barrowmore MRG and Limit of Shunt have lots of interesting documents for raikway modellers.
Thanks for this - I am always happy to learn about prototypical working and will have a look at the sites suggested
Just discovered your channel, and subbed. Bite size, informative videos such as this are very helpful. Especially for those wanting to make the move from train set to model railway. Another one commonly seen, is trains ignoring signals, or none at all.
Hi. Thanks for your sub. I regret that, until now, I have only had static signals so for Yarslow, making them work will be a big challenge! Especially as some of them will be complex.
Hi, on one video you asked for more video ideas, could you please explain the function of all the signs and boxes and small buildings, found in the yards, depots and along the tracks, in the early days of steam and later into early BR days, if you can, I realy enjoy your commentary and all the great knowledge you share with us all. Many thanks, David from New Zealand
Makes a huge amount of sense, thanks for the information
No problem!
Nice work - as you say this is an express freight, so really more applicable to longer distance freight. If you're modelling a local line, then the rules may be discarded in favor of practicality - with wagons placed in a sequence to allow easy drop off with the minimum of shunting.
Certainly Neil - especially for the local "Pick-up" or stopping freight trains. The wagons were put in the order that made shunting easy. It would run under J or K lamps so just wander down the line.
Thanks for the information on goods formations - will make a list of your points and try to follow them. Harking back to your video on pick up goods from 2016 which I just found the other day, you said you would explain why slot 6 on your wagon table was empty. Maybe I missed something but I couldn't find an explanation anywhere. Slowly working my way through your videos and finding them most interesting. Regards Peter
Hi Peter. Each train runs with a specific number of "blocks" - say 5. Some contain 4 wagons, some 3, some 2 etc etc. Some are empty. The blocks each contain specific wagons and this make up does not change. For example, block 1 is a cattle wagon and a 16T open. When the train runs, it always contains 5 blocks but the number and consist differs every time. The use of empty wagons helps the length of the train vary and has the added advantage that it does not cost anything to add the block to the system!! Hope that helps. Barry
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Thanks for that - think I follow it now. Everything ends up at the beginning again after 21 days - very clever! Regards Peter.
Excellent introduction to the subject. Essentially this is the difference between playing with trains -- run it if it looks nice -- and railway modelling, where the aim is to accurately reproduce as much of the real thing as possible. You can do a little research or a lot, depending on what makes you happy, but once you know some details it seems -- to me -- silly not to incorporate them if you can. On the other hand, as when I started out with Hornby Dublo, ignorance is bliss. Though even then I was mildly irritated by having to operate more than one wagon with the same running number...
Not everyone wants to follow the rules but for those of us who do, knowing the rules is important.
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 David Jenkinson called it 'historical modelling.' My point is that even for historical modellers, if you don't know the rules you feel no pain -- but once you've discovered a rule then following it gives you additional satisfaction.
Very informative. Some bits I knew but there was still bits to learn
Glad you enjoyed it!
In addition on model railways, do not put heavy wagons on the end of light trains. Physics dictate tension load will take the easiest path independent of where the rails go and cause derailments. Something that happens on a regular basis in the US with empty well cars in the middle of full trains. Also the wagon carrying the plate, death trap, Beighton train accident in WW2, caused by plate being dislodged and slewed out of running gauge into live line running gauge. Large loads require restraint in all directions and be inspected regularly for cold or heat generated effects. In our area we had a regular industrial gas train with barrier wagon on each end with fire fighting equipment. (also 1500v electric locos) ran for years till they closed Woodhead and the steel works.
Thanks for the extra info Brian. Always happy to get useful contributions that aid us make better models!!
Hi Barry - That was absolutely fascinating, not long enough, keep them coming please.
Looking forwards to having trains running and you telling me what is right and what is wrong as it is the only way I am going to learn.
One thing comes to mind, what if the train is pulling a number of oil tanks, how does that work?
Regards Chris
Hi Chris. From the comments I have received, it looks like "part 2" might be in the offing soon!!
All I ever knew was a barrier wagon between steam loco and tanks. Well done.
Unless running empty, good way to change it up if you have up and down lines is take the barrier wagon out when it goes past in one direction.
or gunpowder 😊
I think empty tankers that carry flamables might need a barrier even when empty. They would have some residue?? I will look into this and come back to you.
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 Some flammables are worse when empty, as you end up with vapor!
Hello. I was wondering what is the utility of sheeting a closed Van? Is it to prevent water getting into the van?
Hi - a very good question! Some vans were found to have rooves that leaked in the rain when running on faster trains and others leaked around doors and vents. The solution, when conveying something that had to be kept dry, was to sheet the van - usually a decision made by the porter/foreman in charge of loading. It would have been unusual to have spare vans lying about so they had to work with the vehicles they had. Hope that helps.
@ Yes that does help. Makes sense!. Thank you.
As much as I enjoyed your post, I wish I hadn’t seen it, cos now I’m Analysing the Consists of the the other train videos I watch, usually to Relax, but Now it’s caused me Stress - I will probably need counselling 😢😅
Sorry! Stay cool.
@@yarslowmodelrailway1 ok wildo 😆 - I’ll let you know when I’ve been thru a few more of your back catalogue 😂👍🏻
What speed should the freight train train run at?
Hi Lennon - my Bite Size Bits video on Classes of Train from March 2022 gives the various AVERAGE speeds for freight train classes. Do bear in mind that I model late 50's/early 60's so modern trains run a lot faster and older trains may run slower.
@yarslowmodelrailway1 nice one thank you. I'll check that out.
I've been working my way through them in a non-chronological order. Enjoying the series so far!
Thanks, good information. 🚂🙂
Cheers!
Very helpful video, thanks.
You're welcome!
Thankyou for the information and thankyou for the video
No worries!
Mixed Trains Passengers and Freight 😉
Hi I will cover this in a later video. Thanks for the suggestion