BIZARRE Lightroom Trick Shouldn't Work... But It Does.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2023
- Learn to use the strange lightroom bug that make your AI masks & Lightroom adjustment layer selections WAY more accurate.
If you use Lightroom's AI masking features to auto select your sky, auto select background, intelligently select people or subjects & objects, this editing technique is going to blow your mind. With just a few simple adjustments you can make ALL of your masks much better.
Let's dive in!
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I love how you took the inverted sky selection trick and expanded beyond it in different ways! And thank you so much for the shout out and kind words! I really appreciate that. 😊
Thank you so much Brian! ONE for an amazing trick, TWO for sharing it with the world 😊 Let's connect! DM me if you're down
@brianmatias I'm glad you noted in your original video to select *only* the "masks" when preparing to save as a preset. That's an important step in keeping the preset for sky instead of applying other develop panels.
Very professional of both of you. Great to see on this dog-eat-dog world. Speaks volumes for your characters and integrity.
@@michaelmcphee2930 I agree 100%. It's great when creators lift each other up, and I am very grateful for this example of it.
Two wholesome dudes.
A valuable enhancement to consider is subtracting the inverted sky 2 to 3 times, which, based on my experience, can significantly improve the quality of your mask. With each subtraction iteration, you are likely to observe a gradual reduction in unwanted bleed, thereby refining the overall outcome.
Definitely worth a shot! I found in my tests that most of the time the first invert is the sweet spot, but on images it doesnt do enough, for sure you can stack and see what happens!
I have been using this technique for several months. You will find the law of diminishing returns applies to the repeated inverted sky subtraction. You will end up with areas you want to keep in the mask as getting masked out. Generally, I find more than 3 inverse subtractions does more harm than good. Like I mentioned I have been using this method for more than 6 month so I am speaking from experience :) .
Dayum, i was sooo close to understanding that . Thanks for filling in the masking gaps!
Absolutely love the toolkit. It has sped up my workflow so much, so thank you for that!
After watching this video, I immediately went and grabbed the updated toolkit files, so I wouldn't have to make the refined presets myself. I was hoping the other style/masking presets would have been updated with refined selections too, but apparently not. Would be a nice addition to the toolkit as a whole, but it's no biggie to refine the masks manually. Still saving tons of time with it!
Great to hear! Hmmm that’s a good point! 🤔 I better go update to add this as an option! The reason I didnt was 1) didnt want to have too many presets 2) this trick works most of the time but not ALL the time 😅 But yes, I think i will go update the rest of em! Give me the next 48hrs
That's crazy! I run into that so often....thanks you!
I subtract then select subject and that gets the job done for me almost every time
Glad to hear it!
All good and I agree that this will have useful applications. But I find in many landscapes that the bleed is intelligent so that when a sky dehaze (for example) is made, there is NOT a sudden and unatural border. I have been certain that this is an amazing feature by design. Of course, it works for some (eg with a hazy background) and not for others, so I grant that this approach you demonstrate will have a lot of uses (I would imagine often with selecting subject or certain kinds of object). Thank you for the video.
You’re spot on! Im sure the AI has a built in feather setting just like in Ps masking, except in Lr we arent able to adjust it.
Thanks for the comment!!
@@SignatureEdits Thank you. But I think it is not editable because it isn't a straightforward feathering but is responding to the specific conditions at the edge (but maybe I am wrong). In reality I am often so impressed with how natural the edits are, if not overdone, which with a clean break might make the haziness etc. just below the horizon seem odd when it has been reduced by the sky having been dehazed. As you say though every photo is different and having the manual fix as you describe is a great additional string to the bow; and easy and quick once you practise a bit!
I think you’re right, but I also think it still bleeds too much. The select subject examples in the video are a good example. It doesn’t remove all the bleed and potentially leaves enough for that graduation between the layers.
Great to learn how to make the brilliant LR tools even better! Thanks for sharing! 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I watched Brian's video just before I went to bed and then the first one I watch this morning was yours. Such a cool trick.
Oh man you're on a roll! Haha. Thanks for the comment and the watch Brett!
Although it may be apparent to many, it is well worth remembering the process works equally well in ACR.
Absolutely! Should have mentioned this for any ACR users :)
Thanks for sharing this! Something new for me.
Mind blown! Actually it happened in the seventies. This will save so much time. Spent so many hours trying to fix this. Thank You!
Insanely good tip! Love anything that helps our work be more refined like this!
Absolutely! 🎉💯
This changes everything! Thank you!
Yes it does!
I was just dealing with this issue earlier this morning. I resolved it a different way, but this is so much better. Thank you!
Amazing! Glad it helped :)
Wow! sooo good!
Thanks heaps for sharing
Glad you liked it!
Thank you man! You have veryyy good tutorials!
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching 🙏🏻💯
Well done, both of you!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching Stefan!
Incredible 🙌 thank you for this!
You bet! Thanks for the comment ❤️
Great tips that I actually did not know about. That deserves a follow!
Awesome! Thanks for the follow Ken :)
thank you for sharing this!
Of course!! Thanks for watching :)
Cool trick delivered in a charismatic way. Thumbs up 👍
🤯😵💫🤯 okay, this video did NOT disappoint!
hahaha THANK YOU Sonia!
This is amazing. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful Damon! Thanks!
WOW! Simple and very effective!!!!! THANKS!!!
Glad it was helpful Burt! Thanks for watching 🙌🏻
Thanks, I'll try your blending idea.
Let me know how it goes!
Really appreciate the information!
Glad it was helpful Butch!!
Thank you. I need to try that function sequence. On landscape photos with trees I would select sky but have bleed around the leaves. I would then have to expand the photo display and use subtract -brush and carefully remove unwanted areas, very time consuming. This will speed up that process.
100% Mike! This is EXACTLY where I'm finding it can save a ton of time... Although to be fair, it's also these EXACT images that I'm seeing 50/50 results in terms of sometimes it works, sometimes not so much. Still an awesome tool to have and use when it does!
Great! I've learnt a lot. Thank you.😄👍
Such a useful educational video man!! Thanks a lot
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
This is great. I very much appreciate this
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for commenting :)
Definitely one to try. Thanks.
Have fun! Thanks for watching 👌🏻
Incredible easy tip. Many thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I saw Brian's post the other day and it woks quite well in some situations.
Agreed! What did you think of parts 2-4 for the other applications? Have you tried it?! Would love to hear other people's results on this one :)
I learned more than I was expecting to.....now I'm tired but smiling! Lol, thank you!
Oh man what a comment! 🙂🙏🏻 Glad it helped u thomas!
Hi, I subscribe to Brian Matish, the guy comes up with some great ideas and I`d already viewed his video showing how to do this hack, but I love that you've hacked his hack and expanded it to include subjects and backgrounds. Thank you and once again a big big thank you to Brian Matish for discovering this hack in the first place.
100% Steve! Love how a community can work an idea and come up with more ideas than we ever could on our own :) Grateful for this trick from Brian
Wow!!! That's actually really funny, but also so awesome good!
Thanks! 😄 I agree!
Amazing!!!!!! Thank you🙏🏻
I saw this when Brian first shared it a while back. On his more recent video someone had commented about doing an intersect with sky instead of doing a subtract and invert. I gave this a try on a photo and seemed to get the same result. I haven't done extensive testing to see if one is better than the other. Seems to save at least one click by doing the intersect.
Great tip Craig! Ive now built the premade invert into all my AI editing presets so it’s all done with one click 👌🏻🙂
Wow! Brilliant.
Right?! Glad you liked it!
Holy crap this is actually so helpful!! And here I’ve been avoiding the select sky mask whenever I can when I could have just been doing this all along 😂
🎉🎉🎉🎉 Lol I agree. So many photos to re-edit ;)
Dude .....OMG this works insanely good -Thank you
Right?!! It’s been massive for me too!
Great one! Thx!
Glad you liked it!
I watched Brian’s original video. Was a little fuzzy with the steps. Just watched this video and with a slightly different demo. Between these two tutorials I now understand the steps.
Two is better than one! Glad it helped fill in the blanks Stephen :) Appreciate the watch and comment!
Thanks for the video
You bet!
Very cool! Thank you.
You bet!
Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
wow! great tip!
Glad it was helpful!
Holy shit that's awesome !
Now I'm gonna have some fun with editing, thanks for the tips.
Great tip thanks
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
There you go! Nice
👌🏻
Really great!
Thanks for watching!
Awesome !!!! Liked & subscribed
Thanks for the sub! And the comment!! 🙏🏻❤️
I was having this problem just yesterday with the trees in my photo now I am going to try this as soon as I get home... ❤
Have fun! Let me know how it goes Doug!
¡¡¡Genial❤ Muchas Gracias!!!!!
Denada!
@Signature Edits Another way to do the same trick is to intersect the mask with select sky, subject etc - no need to invert as it does the same thing.
Oh man! I'll have to check this out 😊 Cheers!
UPDATE* I tried it and don't see how it's doing the same... So if I have a sky selection that is bleeding onto the mountains etc, I would go intersect with.... select background?
What am I missing haha
UPDATE: Right. Select Sky. Then intersect with select sky. It removes the bleed just like the invert method.
Is there a video out there that shows what you're talking about? I am lost at what you mean by "intersect the mask" 😳
I just did this trick and it works amazingly!!!!
Amazing! Glad you found it helpful 👌🏻
Life saver ❤🎉
🎉🎉🎉 Glad it helped ya!
Very interesting. Thank you very much. I agree it’s a little too fast, especially for not English speakers, but that can easily be fixed slowing down the video to 0,75. Great job 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for the feedback 🙂👌🏻
I watched Brians video and as you stated, it's not 100%. But it does produce better results. Thanks for the tip on making a preset. I've already made them and it's a time saver. If it's not better, a quick delete. I think Photoshops masking is a little better but what we can now do in Lightroom is amazing. Thanks again.
Glad it was helpful! PS definitely has a lot of options... I wish I knew it better because I'm always frustrated when it's object select or quick selections seem to be incapable of doing the simplest masks haha. I'm sure it's a me thing. What are you using inside PS to select?
I use different selection tools for different photos. Like Lightroom, you have to try different techniques. I start with the auto section be hovering over the subject.@@SignatureEdits
Interesting trick that will very quickly be fixed. I'm betting that the add/subtract options causes the AI to use different initial starting points and training.
I hope so, but I’m not so sure! I’m pretty sure it’s been like this for a long time, the only differences now I know what to do when it happens 😅
my theory is that just like in Photoshop when you have feather and sensitivity controls over your mask, Lightroom has something like that built into the AI settings that we can’t adjust and the folks at Adobe decided works best for most images.
perhaps every time we edit an image, it’s training the algorithm, or perhaps, like you say this trick helps it figure out what’s going on better… I guess we’ll wait-and-see :)
Thanks for the comment!
AI mask + preset is soooooooooo great.
Want to try on face masking if it can be better. Currently I select the face skin and substract the eyes and other things to make it better.
Fantastic
Thank you! Cheers!
Wonder if you could subtract and intersect a third time and get even better results?
Amazing tipp, thanks a Lot
Hmmm now THAT is a great question! Let me try...
*UPDATE* Just tried... You CAN do it a third or fourth or even fifth time, and it WILL grab more... But I'm finding it's actually taking the effect too far instead of making it more accurate.
Your results might be different depending on the photo - Can you try it and let me know?!
I’ve been using Chanel’s in PS, I’ll try this now!!
Right on!
This is a brilliant hack, thank you, though the subject mask on you on the mountain wasn’t great. 👏👏 Shame that Adobe is seeing this an fixing the masking in the first place
I totally agree! Like I said, my results have been varied... It works on a LOT of photos, but sometimes the AI masking just doesn't know what it's looking for I guess? Who knows, maybe between this video & Brian's it will catch Adobe's eye! Would be great to have a "feather" or "detail" control under the auto mask
Nice work
Thank you! Cheers!
Neat trick👌
Thanks!
Muchas gracias.
Denada!
You're right -- that shouldn't work....
hahaha yep. blew my mind the first time i saw it
Thanks for video. I watched Brian Matiash's video a few days ago and remembered seeing something similar from Todd Dominey a couple of months ago. It took a while for me to understand what he was doing. He also duplicated the revised sky mask and inverted it to get the foreground and then inverted that to get a more accurate foreground mask. I did start getting some halo around my tree branches though. How do you guys figure this out?
Hey Charlie! I think the halo comes down to some kind of built in mask feathering Adobe has. This trick contracts the feather and leaves a halo on certain images. No idea why some but not others.
Overall the best fix I've come up with is you can BLEND between the original AI Mask and your updated one by creating TWO masks (One with the original, one with the updated) then adjusting the strength of the effect on each.
It's clunky and not great, but it's my best fix for now!
How interesting. I have been doing some event photography of late photographing speakers. So often when I use the AI to select the person, it also selects the bright screen (grrr). I must try this to see if this trick works in this situation.
Awesome idea! Id love to hear how it goes!
Maybe my images aren't as "complex" but I have never experienced this much bleed in using any of those options. Every time I've used the "Select Sky" option, it does a darn good job. And the only thing I deal with when using "Select Subject" is it gets a bit fuzzy around the feet, but my adjustments are generally so subtle it isn't noticeable anyway.
Super interesting! Honestly I thought the same with my images up until I zoomed in and reaaaaally looked close like in this video! My hunch is your images probably have this too, but like you said for subtle adjustments it’s likely you wouldnt ever notice
@@SignatureEdits I actually just edited an image and yup, it does it, just never, ever noticed.
Great Video, and many thanks. I bought all your presents just now. I can load the AI presents to Lightroom CC , but into Classic. I can't load the other presents into Classic or CC, even after reading the PDF that came with AI Presents.
Hi Coatsey! Shoot Im sorry you’re having trouble installing! Can you send me a message via the contact option on signatureedits.com, with a couple screenshots showing where you have placed the presets so I can double check everything is in the right spot? :) Most of the time it is a simple fix!
@@SignatureEdits hi, it was a frustrating time but it was a combination of 'USER' error, Lightroom not behaving and a little bit of ease of installation. So much appreciated for responding. 👍🏾
Great tip! Do you have any recommendations for using Lightroom's Enhance for both getting rid of noise and upscaling?
Hey Svet! Honestly I've found enhance doesn't have a ton of options other than just selecting the amount you want to apply... My results have generally been pretty good just with the stock settings, but trial and error is definitely the best to find what works for you! Every situation for ISO lighting, MP of your camera etc is going to be different :)
Thanks!
Wow amazing
well done
Thanks for watching!
Could have used this on my last session edit.
I feel you 😅👌🏻 Me too!
Plus tip: you can do the same trick over and over again if you are not satisfied with the first results ( the same sky mask + subtract + invert, then you repeat the Subtract sky and invert as many times as you need in the same mask)
Awesome point Sary! This is true :)
Love it. But Adobe should be able to build this into their algorithm.
Agreed! Maybe a future update? 🙏🏻
Interesting trick
👌🏻❤️
Great video thanks for the tip. I almost wanna report this as a bug to adobe. Seems like they should do a better job the first time.
Glad you enjoyed! I think they did it the way they did on purpose, as it probably gives better results a lot of the time by having the higher blend like they do… But yeah, some of the artefacts - THOSE are definitely buggy 😅Hope they fix!
Awesome intro
Thanks so much! Hope the rest lived up to it! 😉
Using Brians Technique for a while now, I believe, that Adobes bleeding Masks are better if your edges have no sharp focus. Whenever you e.g. have leaves of trees with a bouquet or similar in the foreground, the Refinement-Masks (aka Brians way) will lead to al ot of halo (depending what U use them for.
100% agree. In moooost cases this can do a great job... until those few situations where they are much worse!
A quicker way is to intersect instead of subtract and invert
i have since learned this! thanks for the pointer! :)
Genious.
Thanks!!
Is there a similar hack for selecting the sky in PhotoShop? I do a lot of night sky blends in there and struggle with the selection tools. Thanks!
Hmm sadly I'm not a PS guru. You can certainly select the sky and play with the selection controls to expand the mask, expand the feather etc. But I don't know of anything like this! If you find it PLEASE SHARE :) I'd love to know!
Brian. One consideration. You didn't mention using the 'Amount' slider to control the preset selection that doesn't quite work. Have you tried this and what was the result? Thanks for all your videos.
Goddamn it thats so cool im so gonna try that out thank you for seeing this and then showing us this is awesome thank the other person that you seen it from to
very nice
❤️👌🏻
Super
Thanks!
Nog nooit gezien maar ontzettend handig als het mij lukt ga ik het zeker gebruiken
Awesome, so glad it was helpful for you!
Thanks for sharing. Is it possible to invert on LR for iPadOS?
I don't quite understand the part about "so you can go back and forth between the two different edits." Can you provide a bit more detail? Thanks! BTW - Once again you prove that "the we is smarter than the me!"
Hey Jeff! What I mean is you can alternate between Adobe’s original automask and the updated new mask :)
Makes sense. It works with a smaller selection and not the whole photo to analyze and on top of it it probably is coded to not subtract 100% of the parent mask. The issues you highlight are that subsequent uses of the mask is forced to remove a certain amount of the parent mask. If the first mask was good enough a subsequent map is forced to take too much from the parent mask making it effectively worse.
So first mask determines the broad subsection of the photo that represents the thing you want to mask.
The second pass refines it because it can dedicate more power to refining a smaller area than the whole photo and it is forced by it's algorithms to find something as to not reselect 100% of the parent mask.
Third pass is where the issues could come since the algorithms are forced to find something that is not 100% of the parent selection. It could remove actual sky since it has to create enough difference to the parent selection.
Holy Moly.
Agreed Christopher! :) Thanks for the watch and for the comment!
This works with intersecting the mask too if you want specific areas like objects etc. I just assumed this is what people did haha
@amasi75 said this as well... But I'm not seeing how it does the same job of refining a sloppy mask? Help me! Haha
@@SignatureEditsYeah it's not the same thing, people seem to be missing that what's happening here is the same operation being completed differently, and the second time being more accurate due to the nature of the algorithm. When we invert the sky selection, Lightroom subtracts all subjects/objects on its own and calls that an inverted sky, instead of just inverting the initial sky mask. Things are finally getting really easy editing wise, and automation is becoming a reality which is a lifesaver with many photos, esp with people in them. Nowadays, the longest part of the edit is waiting for the various ai/generative operations to complete :D
@@SignatureEdits ah! I seem to be confusing, I mean "as well as" so once you have done the new mask redefine, you can then intersect to protect areas it doesn't work as well on. Like the leaves example you said it "didn't work as good as lightroom mask" well, you can intersect the mask and use the new way on just the skyline and Lightrooms mask on the leaves. to have best of both worlds :)
So would you put Brian’s video link in your details for this video?
looked good as presented but when I tried it caused unacceptable halos. Perhaps the bleed is intentional in order to prevent an unnatural looking cut off between adjustment areas? Perhaps Adobe knows what it is doing?🤔
Agreed John! As I showed later on, it’s a mix of whether or not it works. Sometimes adobes version is MUCH better, while other times this trick cleans things up a lot.
Im sure adobe put the feather in on purpose to get more consistent results - The only thing I wish is we had a slider to control it :)
Yeah fair enough, another way of achieving the same result though is to simply intersect the first sky mask with another sky mask. This can be done very easily if needed and is quicker than making a preset that you find doesn’t work well and then having to start from scratch 🤷♂️
When compositing it is necessary to “match colour” in order to make the composite look natural. I truly believe the feather is necessary to blend that necessary “match colour” between areas of differing adjustments.
Thanks for the info though, I’ll keep trying it in various scenarios 👍