In a nutshell this boils down to; "They totally had guns, its just that compared to bending, hand-cannons were far slower and clunkier, meaning no one thought to improve the basic design, thus never achieving the level of destruction posed by modern firearms."
Except.... what about non-benders? Why'd they never really explore guns further? Would probably still take longer for them to develop, as benders would be too ahead of the curve on the battlefield, but renegades and curious minds might continue to pursue the technology.
@@olimar7647 didn't you see? in the show they pretty much used exclusively bender armies, because well, bending is a weapon, and it's superior, so why would you employ someone that isn't a bender as a soldier?
@@matheusGMN Yeah, that's what I meant to refer to when I mentioned the tech would probably develop slower. Armies wouldn't have much use for guns until they got highly advanced, and so a huge chunk of the incentive would be taken out. However, a non-bender renegade or innovator may still pursue gun tech for their own purposes, whether that be the hope of rivaling benders (before metal bending cropped up and threw another hindrance at guns) or the insatiable desire to test what might be possible. And as a result of these individuals, guns could slowly advance to be more practical.
The presence of the Avatar also had an impact on weapon development. The Avatar's goal is to keep the world balanced/at peace. Wartime speeds up the invention of weapons. Without constant threat of war due to the Avatar's efforts, there would be no incentive to mass develop advanced weaponry.
@@oinkytheink1228 Dude. Tech development requires lots of people and resources. If an Organizational is hidden enough that the Avatar doesn't know, they likely are too small to make significant headway in technology.
Fun fact: Their was a guy who fought WW2 with a bow and arrow. This video made me think of that fact. This video makes a lot of sense and is extremely compelling to watch, particularly the combination of history and how it relates to the show. Among the best videos I've seen on an Avatar topic. Oh and I just learned that the guys name is Jack Churchill September 16 1906- March 8 1996. He also had bagpipes and a Scottish broadsword. Rest in peace sir, you were quite brave as was my grandpa and all other WW2 vets.
He also went into battle playing a bag pie.....mad lad charging into machine gun fire blowing on some cow guts. And his reaction to the Americans dropping the nuclear weapons on Japanese was "we could have kept this going another 5 years if it wasn't from those dam Americans ......capita jack was definitely at home on the battlefield
The other reason is that they were a feudal society with a clear class structure based in no small part on magic ability. Meaning that not only were the primitive guns not as effective as bending but the rulers had a vested interest in not giving the lower orders a weapon that would level the power divide even a little. In the real world the rulers of many countries banned peasants from owning military weapons like swords and latter guns but they also had to use them themselves because they did not have magic powers that were inherently unavailable to the people at large. This meant that the weapons could not be suppressed completely like it can in a fantasy setting since they were still present in the military and among the upper classes meaning when there was a rebellion or relaxing of the oppression the common people knew what guns were and they were still being made.
Very true but I also will say that I fantasy sending can go both ways pretty damn easily of either it's a class based society that would outright punish, inprison, or kill anyone who would dare overthrow that power difference and Legend of Korra was The Logical endpoint of such an idea because just as the gauntlets were made to help level the playing field against benders, it's in that same vein that you can't stop the people at large from being intelligent or being clever enough to figure out how to make something either like a gun or something that has a similar amount of power as a gun. On the inverse there's the other side of the spectrum where it's a world that doesn't have such a class to buy or if it does it doesn't really care to enforce it but rather it's more so just a "it is how it is..." Type situation. Basically in such a situation is that kind of like how we see with for example the people who were traveling across the Earth nation and needed to get past the Great Divide, in the Avatar World there is a absolute metric shit ton of giant ass monsters that could destroy anyone in an instant southern people pretty damn good reason someone would want to try to develop a weapon to fight such monsters and be able to travel across the world safely. Basically no matter what there will always be good justification in my mind in a fantasy story for guns to exist and quite often fantasy settings honestly make it more likely guns will exist at some point in some fashion even though people for some reason hate the idea of even just basic ass Flintlock pistols and rifles.
This is an excellent observation and it plays into my views on guns. I am not a hardcore 2nd amendment gun owner. Realistically I could never fight the government. However, casual gun ownership has the effects you mentioned simply because the government can't magically make them go away.
@@timbrwolf1121 My view is similar there are plenty of historical and political precedents for gun ownership in the real world and that casual gun ownership tends to be on the whole a good thing for the society. I will say however that the toxic relationship many of the gun nuts have developed with guns in recent years is even more unhealthy then a complete ban would be.
This argument doesn't really hold up because firearms allows for a monarch to easily centralize authority by allowing them to equip a relatively large standing army on the cheap. It's much faster to train someone to use a firearm than it is a sword, or to use bending. Relying solely on bending would be unreliable as not everyone is a bender, most people, in fact, are nonbenders. Only in the air nation did everybody have the ability to bend. Once a weapon is invented, it cannot be uninvented. And firearms are a huge game changer. They would be more effective than swords and spears, and much easier to train recruits with. Months worth of training could be reduced to weeks. The idea that they didn't use guns was to keep them out of the peasants hands also doesn't really hold up. Either they are less effective, in which case them having guns isn't going to give a peasant much of an advantage over, say, bows, spears, and swords, or they ARE effective, in which case all it would take is one king within the Earth Kingdom to see their advantages and decide that they wanted a competitive advantage over the other kings in the Earth Kingdoms.
@@minutemansam1214 that's just it though is that the Fire Nation was an island luck Nation much akin to Japan with a lot of mountainous regions again like Japan meaning they were in the issue of not really being able to have too much land in general so they had to do their best to make it so it was mostly agricultural and use the space they had most efficiently and this is also why the Fire Nation started trying to take over the Earth Kingdom because the Earth Kingdom just had so much land and so much more places for them to actually properly much larger amounts of metal as well as much more land for things like agriculture or things of that nature. Basically it was more cost effective to rather than paying for all the guns to be made to fill up this giant army of basically peasants who can only fight so long as they have their guns or they could just take a smaller pop portion of the population and use them with their natural fire bending abilities to outperform those peasants. Beyond that since the guy who actually had the gun in the tabletop game was a Fire Nation member, it seems to imply that that Innovation was only made in the fire nation which again is the place where it was least likely to take off
I always wondered if humanity having super powers like in these fictional worlds could hinder our technological development. I guess this is a case in which it did happen.
Well, probably not so much hinder as redirect. In a world of telepaths, we probably wouldnt bother inventing cranes, but we might get all kinds of creative with our engineering and architecture since the problem of "getting big heavy thing up to tall place" is no longer a factor. In the same way, looking at ATLA, there is one faction in the world with easy access to the heat required to power all kinds of foundries and steam engines for heavy industry, so they ended up far technologically superior to any other nation, yet other nations can be far more flexible in the construction of their cities and infrastructure, because theyre capable to manipulate large parts of their buildings and environment with little effort. We develop technology to solve problems we couldnt on our own, if you have the ability to solve those problems already, that lets you move on to other problems instead.
I've seen plotlines of wizards being commonplace made technology regress back to the dark ages. Since most problems could just be solved with magic, why even use the resources for technology?
Republic City in Korra's time is actually the perfect origin point for guns to suddenly be relooked at. In the era of bender vs nonbender rights, more and more nonbenders are gonna look at ways to level the playing field. Sure the mechsuits and electric gloves play a part in that, but guns eventually will too. ALTHOUGH, going through the tedious years of figuring out handgonne -> matchlock -> flintlock etc., basically gunpowder in general is a nonstarter. If only they saw some super powerful cannon that could annihilate anything in it's path that could be fired by anyone... That's right, I think Avatar's world is gonna progress down developing and miniaturizing spirit energy cannons to eventually develop spirit laser guns. Not only does this make sense in terms of worldbuilding, not only does it bypass the "guns are too violent for a kids show" regulation with lasers, but it introduces a really interesting conflict for the next Avatar's society, exploiting the natural (spirit) world for a short term advantage heedless of long term damage. Sound pretty topical~
With the new Earth Kingdom Avatar show being on streaming, as well as set in a more modern setting, they might just go ahead and have guns too. So far, I think all the antagonists have been benders. A non bender who is a true threat and the main antagonist would be interesting. I doubt the bender versus non bender sentiments disappeared with Amon.
My analysis: If the Fire Nation had discovered the power of modern artillery, then the war would have been a lot shorter. Their range and accuracy would have improved dramatically, along with the types of ammunition they'd use. They would most likely be using HE (Highly Explosive) Ammunition, as it would cause the most devastation. If Aang still succeeded in ending the war, then the Fire Nation's Navy, as seen in Season 1, their efficiency in combat would be much better. Aman (season 1 antagonist) would also have been easier to deal with, unless he got this technology into his and his followers hands as well. In short, firearms would have been both good and bad for the world. It would have been cool to see, but if in the wrong hands it could have been significantly worse for the 4 nations.
@@PelafinaLievreWhat you said about an antagonist using firearms, that could work out well. Make him a skilled gunslinger, he'd be a force to be reckoned with.
There was a kid in one of the books that used sling bullets and earth bending to aimbot. In real life, the only reason guns replaced slings, and then eventually bows was how little training you needed, and the psychological effect the pyrotechnics had.
Bullets would be faster and take far less effort than using a sling would. increasing calibers and making bullets go faster would also make slings obsolete.
@matthaeuspoeta6461 Increasing caliber doesn't make a bullet go faster. Usually it does the opposite unless you increase the powder load to go with it. And slings were the original bullet launching device. And were about as powerful as a musket. Guns are great because you don't need to learn to use it as a little kid for it to be a serious weapon when you are an adult. But if you can earth bend, you can get the power of a gun shot, with a small, feather weight weapon that looks like a bracelet or headband when you're not using it.
@@matthaeuspoeta6461 slingstones can still rival modern .45 acp for kinectic energy. Dont underestimate the sling. The sling is not the slingshot. You know David and goliath, the story of the kid bringing a sling to a biblical duel with a giant? people in the modern day tell it as a slingshot and act like its some crazy divine intervention that he won. The reality is he basically brought a gun to a swordfight and just shot the guy in the head at the start of the 'duel'.
The boring answer is that it was still technically a kids show, so guns were more or less a no no depending on the network at the time. But still a really cool video nonetheless
Sure there's that, but....the Video has a point. Coffee was originally created by the Muslims, but it took Europeans to understand it's Potential. The Muslims just used it to help with Prayer during special times. The Europeans were like "Oh hey we can use this to stay up late!" An it wasn't until later that the Muslims began to use Coffee as a more Every Day Beverage AFTER it being REintroduced. If there's a Cheaper & Easier way to do things, humans will just do that instead. We get LAZY. ALSO: It's 100% possible that someone DID think of this in the Fire Kingdom, since they became more Technologically Advanced, but it would have been seen as a HUGE threat to the Benders. An thus it would have been destroyed and hidden. 1 Bender of Average Talent would EASILY be worth 10+ soldiers. Now imagine what would happen if one could be easily killed by 1 NON-Bender. I mean the Catholic Church BANNED Crossbows, due to how easily they could be used by Peasants to kill Knights, who were the Wealthy Elite. It was deemed too dangerous for how it Disrupted the Status Quo. Thus it's 100% possible that some Rogue Inventor could have created it, but it was Covered Up, like a Conspiracy.
You're video didn't get to why they didn't make bullets in LOK. Although they had invented guns of sorts (ie. net cannons and electrified gloves), metal bullets would have been useless against the police who could just metalbend them away. Instead they invented weapons that targeted the police's weakness. It goes back to your point of there being a problem to fix, and the Equalists' first problem was taking down the metalbending police force, and the best way would be to use their power against them; metal conducts electricity
oh, I absolutely love this - great point! I wonder if metal benders would be able to react fast enough to deflect a bullet though. Bullets from hand cannons (and even 1920s era rifles) moved slower than modern day rounds, but you'd still need insane reflexes. I feel like Toph might be able to with her seismic sense, but who knows for the rest.
@@BabyLionTurtle That's true, but they could also just have metal shields protecting themselves at all times jic. Then they wouldn't need reflexes necessarily, but forethought
True but those are very different fields of technology, the ATLA universe had literal TANKS who could shoot BULLETS, yet had no guns? that makes no sense (though i understand why they did, because instead of bending you could just shoot someone, and the universe’s magic system would be rendered useless)
@@Forit26 All the tanks in ATLA use firebender, just aimed through a barrel. There's also a few large crossbows with explosive arrows. Definitely no bullets though.
@@BabyLionTurtle actually this kinda depends, Before explaining outright a fire, air, and earth(metal) bender could hypothetically stop a bullet, but in order for a bending type to be active said chakra must be lit(the avatar is technically not the only one who can light more than one chakra, just the only one who can light them all at once)you’d also need to have been passed down the bending type genetically,by a lion turtle or by a spirit as these are the only ways we’ve seen bending given, and you’d need a spiritual connection to the elements you’re given or they don’t work. Now to explain, depending on the bullet a bender can stop it regardless because once their chakra is lit they can create a shield like ball out of their element without moving,so it’s safe to say that though you need a movement to move a element you don’t need a movement to control one near you, so the second the bullet gets near them they can just stop it, a water benders a exemption as they actually need water to bend and blood bending has never been showed to work at a large distance.It also seems that a bender can’t control something another bender is already moving unless they’re the avatar or said bender has more power, so the easiest way to make a bullet that no bender can mess with is by having multiple metal benders give the bullet a slight boost as it comes out of the chamber making it impossible to bend back unless your power is greater than that of multiple benders. So pretty much only the avatar could technically stop a bullet that was actually built with bending in mind.....
They never used them because of Sokka had access to a gun the show would’ve ended in three episodes, with the last two being about Aang and Katara trying to stop Sokka using his gun
The main advantages of early firearms were that lesser trained people could be effective with them, and they could penetrate armour. Nether of those thing are common in this setting.
9:25 Yeah the US and others used swords, but obviously we also used guns much more frequently. Swords were used for cavalry, and the trench warfare seen in WWI makes highly mobile horse troops pointless. And self-powered machine guns weren't first used in WWI either, the Maxim was in wide use since the 1880s during the Scramble for Africa as well as the Russo-Japanese War in 1904. The invasion of Guantanamo Bay during the Spanish-American War was the US' first use in combat. The Colt-Browning was used as well
I think it should be noted that even when firearms came to Europe it took another couple hundred years for Europeans to begin using them in quantity, and this was during a period with constant warfare between states which created pressure for military innovation. The Swiss were the first to make effective military use of firearms with their "Pike & Shot" formations but it was not until the advent of flintlocks and bayonets in the 18th century that mass infantry armed with muskets dominated the battlefields of Europe and beyond. China, in comparison, where gunpowder had originated, lacked the pressure for military innovation present in Europe and thus lagged behind
"Pike & Shot" formation originates from Holy Roman Empire and Spain. It first appeared at the end of 15th century and was replaced by bayonets which came in 17th century
@@flamefox6236 Hold up, it took TWO FUCKING CENTURIES for people to think: "Y'know what would be a good idea? Attaching a blade to the end of my gun." Seriously?
It’s actually really cool seeing people who are missing limbs substitute them in The Avatar universe, Ming-Hua’s water tentacles and now The Razor’s stone hand.
I'm just imagining an Indiana Jones moment where a bender drops into a fighting stance and waves their arms around to bend their element. Then the non-bender they are fighting just whips out a pistol and drops them on the spot.
@@Betito1171 korra was in Pain to metal bend something out her body,now imagine something struck ur vital organs halfway and you have to metal bend it out without seeing it
@@brandonlyon730 Just develop hard plastic rounds. As long as it pierces through muscle, a shot to the chest will kill. I'd be more worried about metal benders causing the gun to jam.
I never understood why Earth benders don't just hurl small pieces of rock toward there enemies. Especially after metal bending was discovered, and they could make small metal arrow heads basically.
They did, as told in Kyoshi books. One of the earth benders threw a tiny, almost invisible to the naked eye piece of stone straight trough his opponent's neck killing him almost instantly. It's definitely a technique used in the universe. The shows were just too PG to show them :v
Because its a kids-show in the end. A new series and movies are coming soon. It would be nice if there was an r-rated film to show how brutal bending can be. Not all of course, the series should continue to be for younger audiences. But one movie like that would be epic. And it would certainly be worth it, they must know that parts of their audience have aged with them.
@@kacarek2402 Actually I think that kind of thing was actually a specialized skill. Precise work seems pretty difficult for benders in general. We see those smaller movements more from advanced benders who have trained to do it. So yeah, its probably a skill issue.
"When we hear gun, we think of this" *proceeds to show the most American pastime.* They never used them because if Sokka had access to a gun the show would’ve ended in three episodes, with the last two being about Aang and Katara trying to stop Sokka using his gun. All jokes aside, metal benders using their skill to curve and direct bullets and other metallic ammunition towards targets would be absolutely terrifying and an interesting concept.
Ahora que lo pienso imagínate una persona que controla el metal desarmada enfrentándose sola a un montón de personas con pistolas modernas simplemente redirigiendo las balas como si nada
Basically, Fire nation: “Why should I use a gun, when my hands ARE guns.” Non fire benders: “Why should I use what my comrade can turn into *friendly fire?”*
the biggest advantage guns gave was the fact that you could quickly train soldiers to use them unlike bows or crossbows (crossbows at the time had better penetrative power and took less time to reload than the first rifle muskets) so having guns would mean you could put non benders on the battle field massively increasing your own nation's firepower
Good point, but at the same time you have lots of logistical issues as your army increases. The fire nation is the one most likely to develop guns but at the same time they are invading and we can see that they have only a handful of men in most places because firebenders can control a population very easier. The non-benders are likely just a mean of surveillance in their army to ensure the firebenders are always in the right place. And if you arm them with low skill weapons, then the weapons can be stolen making the gun a net negative for occupation. Though for home defense in the fire nation, I think your point makes a good case for why they should be common.
given that benders are a larger chunk of the population than military to civilians has ever been at any point in history, recruiting non benders for frontline roles just seems stupid in the ATLA universe
@Viperstriker4 plus there are always some classism involved too. It's mentioned quite extensively in the aang comics that non benders are somewhat a second class citizens in some nations or regions, even in labor because earthbender can easily mine minerals and metals, before the invention of machineries.
This video is a master class analysis on the relationship between politics and technological progress, which demonstrates the non-linearity of hisotircal progress, perhaps inadvertently showing the flaws in Hegel's theory of history. Amazing video!
The last sentence actually made me laugh out loud. I love how you brought the beginning joke about the pipebomb back once more. Caught me completely of guard, ngl.
@@Baconator5642 I was thinking wheatlock to flintlock tier firearms(including the versatile blunderbuss aka portable cannon) tech for Aang's era, Korra's could use revolvers, early semi automatic and automatic firearms and so on.
I do wonder if there could be a colony of non-benders somewhere in the world, maybe some evil non-bending empire that wanted to conquer the world but obviously couldn't, because they just straight up can't fight benders, so they actually started investing into the gun technology and managed to get it to WW1 level. I guess that could make for an interesting post-Korra series.
"Oh so you're a bender,and you prefer close range combat." *sitting 400 meters away in a bush with m107 and ballistic tracker* "Too bad i have a .50 bmg sniper."
@@platinumchromee3191 ya that would be a interesting concept but in that case would weapons that specifically enhance benders ability be researched by benders what they would look like I don’t know but that could lead to a lot of interesting technology.
When people canonically dodge/react fast enough to lightning it kind of makes sense that a highly inaccurate black powder weapon wouldn't catch on very well since people will just dodge it if you would hit your target. As a result its likely that firearms wouldn't see much use or development because you'd have a better chance of hitting people with a sword, in Saka's case a boomerang. Heck that boomerang is probably traveling multiple times the speed of sound from his throw.
Arguably it depends on situation. Sure, a single guy with a hand cannon... well let's face it, your an idiot. A line 30 men across and 5 ranks deep from a nation that figured out volley fire? Now the bender may have a problem....
Well, the characters we watch that could do that are all highly skilled martial arts masters, I assume if you used a gun on a regular Firebender they wouldn't do well against them.
1v1 using smooth bore rifle doesn't make sense both in the avatar world and real world. They're just too inaccurate. That's why back then people fight in lines so that some of them have a chance to hit someone.
In theory, thanks to lightning bending, fire benders can technically used railguns. A team of metal bender and lightning benders can increase the speed of the railgun too!
Exactly. Funny is that if we had access to magic now we'd make it giant leap in Teh because our Energy Problems will be met easily for such technology.
There was an even bigger obstacle to guns in Avatar the censors. It is very hard to get the censors to let you show guns in a kid's show. The makers of Batman: TAS were able to do it because they had a network executive who was really supportive of the show and helped bend the rules with the censors.
To those who think metal benders can just bend the bullet. Sure, they can but let's see you use bendung to deflect a small projectile being shot at you at top speed
Against sniping, no. But in close range fighting, a metalbender could probably bend all of the bullets together in the magazine. Or they could flatten the barrel, turning the gun into a backfiring explosive. Or they could simply summon the gun from distance. All of these tactics would likely result from the proliferation of guns.
@@markusbiewer9721 At that point the bender could just smash a rock into the skull of the shooter. But, I mean, it's a gun. Its whole schtick is far-away combat.
Yea, everyone in the show gets hit by ranged attacks at some point, even from bending of their own type. Earthbenders hit each other with rocks all the time, firebenders hit each other with fireballs. They wouldn't be able to handle projectiles past a certain speed without great level of preparation. Also, we know from LoK that metalbenders cannot bend metal of high purity.
I’d love to see the next avatar need to deal with guns. Trying to stay incognito to avoid assassination while questioning their purpose in the world. Simple revolvers (called the equalist) and lever action rifles (called the Yuyan). Unfortunately they jumped the shark in Korra with giant mechs and hummingbird helicopters which cant even be built today so…
Yeah essentially. ATLA is pretty much early 1800s Industrial Revolution while TLOK is the 1920s which is why you get that jump in technology. It makes sense if you look at it from the perspective of real world inventions that exist in the show as well and the time that passes.
@@ghostlain exactly people get mad at LOK cause of the technology yet they don’t pay attention to the fact that tech was already becoming a thing in TLA, we see war tanks, submarines, trucks, air balloons: thanks to Sokka and in the Commics there were forklifts too. It’s thanks to Aang era that we got an industrial revolution in Korra’s.
@@fazbrogaming7776 the problem is the technology got to far, cars and electricity makes sense. But laser canons and giant robots just destroy the aesthetic and theme of the show.
@@sunshineskystar laser canons I get your point, but I think that giant robots, in a universe where people can bend metal and electricity, makes some sense
During the Wan story in Korra, there are gun noises when they're talking about the war. It could be that they were just like "These are sounds people will recognize as war." but, it could also be that guns were being used during that war 10,000 years before Korra.
@@azmah8523 I mean in the real world, we had rockets that could put people on the moon at the same time as when our best cameras were 144p, black & white, and filled with static. One of the Wright brothers was still alive when the atomics bombs were used. Harvard University is older than the concept of calculus. That's not one correct path. Maybe our real work technological disparity is what makes no sense lol
@@azmah8523 I completely disagree. In real life what gets invented is pretty random especially around the world. They even mention in the video about how steam engines were "invented" at least 4 times independently by societies in Massively different tech levels. If the first steam engines caught on 2000 years ago you would probably you say it is unrealistic that people would be too stupid to figure it out until only 200 years ago. Also the fire nation has trains and even tanks fighting people that don't even have guns... That happened all the time in real life. The fire nation is just the most advanced nation fighting nations that are less advanced, it makes perfect sense.
@@azmah8523 i mean, it kinda does make sense when you think about it. ATLA is set in the middle of an industrial evolution, considering Sokka invents hot air baloons in the show, and that the firt recorded flight was in 1783, it make sense to consider ATLA as being set in the early 19th century; now, 20 years have passed between ATLA and TLOK, which despite being less than a century timeskip which could have brought us from the first industrial revolution to the early 1900s, is still only about a 20 years difference from our own world. I wouldn't say it's that farfetched
This gave me an idea for a Avatar title that could tie firearms in, "The Legend of the Avatar: One in the Chamber." It'd be about a new Avatar who has to combat a new age full of bullets and benders who are out to kill the avatar and they are stronger than anything either Korra or Aang has ever faced. I feel like if Korra would be World War 1, this new age would be World War 2 so we build around that. I think the rest of the bits could fall easily into place.
Firebenders catch lightning out of the air and metalbending is a thing, so I think bullets aren't really as big of a deal as ppl think they are, at least in LoK.
I don't think even a metalbender would stand a chance stopping a bullet from an early gunpowder weapon, even if they'd be able to bend the bullet, the reflexes necessary just aren't within human capacity. To prove this, you can play a simple game with a friend: let them hold out a dollar bill and place your hand JUST below it, ready to pinch it out of the air when your friend decides to let go, you may not move your hand down in order to catch it and your friend may give you no warning when they let go. Even though you KNOW and fully anticipate him to drop the bill, ready to do a simple pinch to stop it, you'll find yourself unable to catch it most of the time simply because your brain has to perceive when the dollar gets dropped, then decide to do the pinch in time, all of which is a much simpler process than slapping bullets out of the air with an arm motion. These weapons are meant for close range, meaning that a metalbender would already have to be in the process of making the bending move required to avert the bullet before it exits the weapon, at the moment that they hear a "BANG", it takes only a tenth of a second before a ball of lead embeds itself into their squishy bodies. Bending certainly is a more powerful and versatile weapon, but that goes for any non-bender alternative out there so far, besides, early guns were built to serve as melee weapons considering how slow and clumsy the reload process was, so you'd still have a club/billhook when after you take your shot, which is a big step up from a sword. However, it is still possible that their use dried up because of the fire nation's enormous demand for fresh troops on the field and drilling guys in the use of spears is simply much quicker than training them for handguns, its a logistical concession, probably based on most benders opting for lighter armour in favor of easier bending so handbows and crossbows would still suffice as a ranged option.
You talk about early gunpowder weapons but tgen use the feats of modern ones to prove your point. Early hand cannons projectiles weren't a fraction as fast as the ones we have today, and if compared to what firebending could do at the same time in a easier way, it wouldn't be worth persuing the idea.
@@plotylty They literally didn't use the feats of modern weapons to prove their points? Even if a black powder weapon is only a fraction of the speed of modern smokeless spitzer rounds, you're vastly underestimating their speed. Even a crossbow is too fast for a human to reasonably react to, and you can see the distinct shape of the bolt move through the air. Even with black powder weapons a lead ball will be an indistinct blur you have to train your eyes to catch in flight
@@Ezekiel_Allium Except in the Avatar universe we regularly see benders reacting fast enough to dodge and/or intercept arrows and crossbow bolts with their bending. Clearly, the Avatar universe is operating under ninja movie rules where skilled humans can very much intercept something as fast as a bullet. Not to mention, a single skilled bender already accomplishes everything a medieval pike-and-shot formation does, but better. Why make a squad with a hundred dudes armed with hand cannons when you can hire a handful of skilled earth benders to lob rocks at people with pinpoint accuracy and a sustained fire rate that only a machine gun could hope to match?
@@furrytrash8399 I feel like you may have missed the point of me saying a black powder weapon is still an order of magnitude faster than a crossbow bolt.. somehow. And my counterpoint to your eathbender, even if he could react faster than a bullet (I doubt it even by avatars very anime standards) itwould take one guy in a concealed position with a gun to put him down instantly, not to mention the earth bender can also use a gun. Bending takes effort, time, and an open, convenient position, a gun can be shot from cover or while prone, or if you're caught off guard and need a convenient instant kill button to back you up. The earthbender could literally use his bending to complement the gun, give himself a temporary pillbox he can fire from. Also like, skilled earth/metal bender snipers could produce rifled barrels much easier, could reshape a bullet from a shape convenient to load into an aerodynamic one in flight to make effective use of smoothbore weapons etc.
@@Ezekiel_Allium Except it isn't lol. A medieval firearm was not shooting bullets at 1000+ FPS, it was firing much larger rounds at a few hundred feet per second. Certainly faster than the heavy and extremely sluggish crossbow bolts of the day, but not much faster than a modern lightweight bolt can fly. Certainly not so fast that you can just claim without evidence that an avatar character with already superhuman reflexes couldn't possibly react to it. Overall I think you just have an extremely inaccurate picture of just how shitty medieval firearms actually were. Nobody was using hand cannons as sniper rifles, that would've been ridiculous. The very concept of a rifle took hundreds of years to develop, and hundreds more years to develop into something that could actually be used in the ways you're describing. And again, why would anyone in the avatar universe spend all this time trying to develop the fairly shitty hand cannon into a usable weapon when it's made completely irrelevant by the firepower and flexibility of any competent bender? Who would look at their fireworks mortars and say "I bet I could develop this into a military weapon that matches the guy who can shoot fireballs out of his hands for lethality"
Well I think you are neglecting one of greatest benefits guns would have in the AtLA universe that being the ability to make your non-bending population combat viable. If one powerful fire bender fought 10 schmucks with swords who haven't had a day of training in their entire life the bender would wipe the floor with them, but if you were in the exact same situation the 10 schmucks had hand cannons (also swords because people generally had a back up close quarters weapon such as bayonets or swords) the bender would probably go down instantly
idk youd have to have people making those guns first tho. if they start out awful and more easily countered than swords, then nobody wants to use guns, and nobody wants to make better guns, so nobody has guns that work against firebenders
@@leori-7477 Well yes most guns well before rifling was invented were incredibly inaccurate, (Rifling was the process of adding spiral grooves into the barrel to give the bullet a spin and make it more accurate and travel farther.) But when you have a large mass of hand cannons that problem is negated. The other large benefit at the time was ambushes, if your enemy was marching on a road forest you could set up hand cannons at the edge and be ready to fire at a moments notice with the smoke and sound only adding to the surprise and panic
a mediocore rock bender could neutralize an early rifle so could a water bender a fire bender an air bender and for non-bender soldiers, they had other range weapons that were still a lot more effective in most settings.
@@malashebad6181 Well considering the Yuyan archers are shown as very combat effective despite being as easily countered as a rifleman also how would a fire bender and airbender stop a bullet
@@Otto_Von_Beansmarck Exactly, that just seems like nonsense. Maybe you can argue that an Airbender could use their ability to change the trajectory of the bullet while traveling. But I doubt one could react fast enough to do that to the projectile, let alone a volley of them.
Excellent argument. After all, in our world, with muskets and early firearms, we would have lines of men march up to each other and fire at what we’d consider point blank range. Look at 178th to 19th centurywarfare. To sum t up, till the American Civil War or World War I, guns were very in accurate and not exactly that powerfully, compared to bending,
A smoothbore musket can be accurate up to 50 yards if the ball is the same size as the bore. Besides, with spears, you need to get even closer, and we know that most militaries in the Avatar universe used spears as their dominant weapon. Any argument against firearms apply moreso to spears. Also, if you look up 17th and 18th century warfare, typical engagement distances were in the range of several hundred yards. They didn't shoot each other point blank. A smoothbore musket has an effective range of 300 yards, even if it isn't that accurate, 3,000 people shooting in one direction is going to cause a lot of death.
To be honest, they should of modified the electric gloves Asami Sato or the Equalists used in the Legend of Korra, to shoot out repulsor rays or electrobolts kind of like Iron Man. So that way it would serve as a firearm for the Modern Day Avatar universe. I mean Mai had those Knife Projectile darts coming out of her sleeves in Avatar The Last Airbender, why not this one?
Excellent analysis, Very informative. It makes me think about the antikythera mechanism, it also must have been written off as a niche technology or too expensive for mass production in it's time but they really had no idea how close they were to saving the species a thousand years haha.
Considering the Equalists’ whole deal was leveling the playing field, wouldn’t non-benders be particularly interested in guns since they have no other handy means to protect themselves against benders?
They would be, assuming that firearm technology would be a leveller. It's likely that firearms meant to kill are pretty primitive even in Korra's time because early firearms are... kinda shit. Like, in real life, firearms didn't immediately supplant archery and melee combat because they had so many drawbacks. It's dubious that any military would think too much into such a then-unreliable technology, even one specifically focused on countering bending. Why bother using a weapon that isn't accurate (smoothbore), takes several minutes to reload, is extremely loud and gives away your position with a plume of smoke, and doesn't even hit as hard as the already-established corp of soldiers you have that can scythe through infantry lines with a wall of fire, or smash a wall and every single bone in front and behind with a single attack?
@@lozm4835 LoK time period is supposed to be like our 1920’s. If everything else is as advanced, then it should be safe to assume guns would be too. Sure, maybe the reliance on bending would’ve set it back a bit in progress, but I doubt much. Realistically, once a nonbender discovers technology that gives them coveted “firepower”, they would probably become obsessed with developing it. It’s human nature-a desire for power and self-preservation. But this raises another interesting theoretical-perhaps an Avatar and/or the Order of the White Lotus somehow conspired to suppress this discovery, knowing its implications, and that could [at least in part] explain the lack of guns seen in the world of the series? 🤔
@@brentgarner993 We actually see how LoK's time period differs dramatically from our own's technological development, both blowing past us and lagging behind. They have access to mechanisation that blows past what we were capable of in the 1920's, but all their electricity is generated by people manually lightningbending, which suggests that they haven't yet invented the electrical generator, despite that being considerably more efficient in terms of generating power over a long period of time. A human desire for power and self preservation might drive somebody to invent a primitive cannon, yes, but they'd also likely die pretty quickly if they took it to an actual fight given the fact that they'd probably miss and then be a sitting duck for several minutes as they replace the gunpowder, reload the projectile, pack this all in place, and replace the fuse, which they need to remain still for due to the complexity of the process. If they're not intentionally picking off a single lone bender (assuming they even manage to hit) then they'll be a sitting duck. By comparison, training to be good at archery gives you a similar rate of fire as a skilled bender, allows you to remain hidden to avoid counterattacks and is extremely precise. You don't match a bender in power (hence why we don't see archers as primary military), but you do have a niche most benders aren't well equipped to fight against.
Love this video, a lot of good points made, though I do have an issue with one, on the statement of the US Army still using swords into the 1900s. The reason for this is far more cultural than practical, swords after (and even during really) the 1800s were rarely used, but in previous centuries it had been made a custom that swords were a symbol of officers. So, yes officers of many European/American armies carried swords at their hip into battle, or even pointed/waved them around to look intimidating or inspiring, but by the 1880s pretty much any soldier in his right mind would prefer his rifle, and an officer would sooner sheath that sword and draw a revolver. Still, as I said before, other points made in this are pretty good! Definitely fitting for the ATLA setting.
Thanks for the context! Yeah, I figured they weren't use practically at that point, but it was still interesting to me that they were still issued at all up until 1918.
@@BabyLionTurtle sometimes a weapon gains heavy symbolism in some interesting ways. Another example outside of swords in character design is giving spears to quick, efficient, no-nonsense types. Or, the revolver for your cowboy gunslinger heroes. In a way its the same as using badges/hats/flags to show soldiers reflecting their nations in popular media. Or all the earth kingdom warriors wearing green, for example.
@@Haduuna_Wrur It wasn't "made a custom", officers were equipped with swords such that they could more easily defend against spear or bayonet attacks-- which became unnecessary with the improvement of firearms, and was finally rendered obsolete by the tight trenches of WW1. Melee fighting still happened even in WW1, but the trenches were tight enough that daggers, hatchets, and other super-close-quarters weaponry was utilized instead. Plus, waving the sword around left officers vulnerable to sniper fire.
@@williamchristy9463 Officers in ancient days were of course also equipped with swords, this is true, but it has grounds back then far more in practicality than tradition like in the 1800s to the world wars. In medieval warfare, an officer was rarely at the front and thus could afford to have a shiny expensive sword, that would not at all compete with spears, the king of all melee weapons. But, because of this status as a wealthy weapon, someone with a sword could be easily identified as an officer. (or sometimes a mercenary cuz they don't play by the rules) In the days of early firearms there was still some practicality to it, an officer could be distinguished on a battlefield by his sword in some cases, or alternatively he could make gestures and signals with his sword while aiming and firing his pistol in the other hand. Swords entering the 1900s were purely symbolic, aside from folks like Jack Churchill. On average, as you mentioned, swords didn't compete with firearms and more compact trench knives/axes/clubs. Still, to claim a sword would be an officers sword was there with the purpose of fending off spears would be incorrect, spears have far more reach, power, and speed to them, and were in the hands of the common soldier for a reason. If an officer came up against a spearman without any of his own troops nearby, he was doing something very wrong.
@@Haduuna_Wrur Which is precisely why they were used for the deflection of stray spears or bayonets in the worst case scenario. They still had *some* practical purpse. An officer was never supposed to get into a fight, but if they had to, it was deemed fit that they had a more defensive weapon capable of more flexibility in defense. Note, I'm not saying he could offend against the spear-- the reach advantage makes that impossible, especially against pike, but the sword is capable of knocking aside a thrust, even against a committed attacker, if caught nearer to the hilt. And it could do this without encumbering the pistol hand if need be. I'd also point out that even in the medieval era, swords were typically sidearms, and the soldiers who carried them would wield something else like a pollaxe.
Btw. if anyone is wondering which problem early guns were solving in the real world: Effective ranged (light) infantry (aka archers with a high rate of fire who actually hit things) was extremely expensive and hard to replace due to the excessive training times required to master a bow, both in terms of skill and strength. Only heavy cavalry was even more expensive, because you had to breed and feed the horse on top, plus heavy armour. Polearm infantry however was comparatively cheap. So the goal was to develop a type of ranged infantry which was easy and quick to train. And they did - the Crossbowmen. However, they were later replaced by the Arquebusier due to being even easier to train and having more penetration power. The Musketeer with bayonets finally combined the ranged infantry and the pikemen in one unit.
you're missing a bit: crossbows were more effective at killing throughout the entire time muskets were used and they _knew_ it the big reason that guns caught on is because they tended to shock people and scare the hell outta horses. there was also a big indoctrination aspect to it: handing some teenage totally-not-a-kid a crossbow and telling them they're a soldier now had a lot less impact than handing them a gun, guns made them feel *special* heck, for a good bit of that period _slings_ were more effective at killing than muskets but again basically zero psychological impact on foe _or_ friend so they were terrible for drumming up an army.
@@evernewb2073 No, they actually tested the potential of a musket ball to punch through steel plates. It is generally more likely to cause fatal injuries.
@@Alias_Anybody yep! but they couldn't aim for shit to the point where you couldn't even reliably aim in the general direction of a large group of people no matter how skilled you were (looooots of shots going high or low) and fired a bit more than half as often as a high-draw crankbow so the end result was that they just plain didn't connect nearly as often if the crossbowmen were any good at all, and crossbows are nearly as quick to pick up as guns and far cheaper to train with. likewise with the slings I mentioned the reason that they were so silly effective at killing people was that you could have every soldier in the army armed with one and good enough at using it to get a projectile into the general location of a target group and at the end of the day even a clump of dirt hitting a helmet has a real chance of doing real damage let alone a rock hitting something that wasn't covered so ammunition was _quite literally_ everywhere allowing the entire army to take part in that section of ranged combat every time.
@@evernewb2073 That was actually also debunked. On 50 meters, an experienced marksman could have reasonably hit a door sized target with around 80% accuracy. That was a modern test with something from around 1700 I think. They were about as accurate as many modern handguns. However, in formation and with the stress of a battle, with sometimes low quality powder, guns or bullets, pre 19th century fire arms were usually used exclusively in volleys, at least if you had field battles. Intimidation was a big factor, and you couldn't risk your own troops panicking, therefore you had to start firering as early as possible. Napoleon tested it back in the day too, his troops had 60% hits on 75m and 40% on 150m, but those were ideal conditions while firering on a broad target (like, the whole formation), and not every hit even took out the target. They basically determined that the primary way to increase damage was a higher fire rate. 18th century muskets actually had a higher fire rate than crossbows btw. Also, they took a look at the wounds, arrows and bolts are less lethal if they don't hit vital organs. Musket bullets punch such massive holes you'll often just bleed out regardless. Oh, and Musketeers don't need more training than Crossbowmen either, and the focus was, as mentioned, often on fire rate more than accuracy.
this is some of the best analysis of how and why the industrial revolution happened that ive ever heard. you should be proud, this was really nuanced and very well researched. youve earned a sub.
The convenience of bending should have also slowed down the earth kingdoms weapons as well. Mainly they should be mostly using stone weapons still and not metal. Since an earth bender can probably mass produce such weapons from any earth by just stomping. No finding a big enough rocks, no hours of bashing said rocks together to make a knife, just stomp and 5 plus stone knives and a dozen arrow head jump out of the ground.
the problem there is you have to ask "who are the earth Kingdoms most often using their weapons against?" the answer would be their own people, rebels and other earth kingdoms, who all would have had earth benders who could easily break or otherwise render useless weapons made of earth and stone. Metal weapons, which could not be bended by your enemies, would be substantially more feasible and thereby desirable for the earth kingdoms. While they could not be easily mass produced when comapred to earthen weapons, they would have been leagues more effective. Even against external foes, fire benders would be able to blast apart earthen weapons while water benders could cut them apart.
@@captainslender12 fair points kinda forgot about those factors. don't want to try and swing you war club only to have it swing right back at you with a new spike.
Not all the population of the earth kingdom is a bender, even their king isn't one. They still need metal based weapons to arm the non bender part of the army.
The use of metal bending can be an effective countermeasure and a major obstacle in developing firearms during the time of Korra. Sure you can use platinum or other pure metals to make guns, but it's very expensive to produce large amounts for armies, but then again that doesn't stop Kuvira from building an army of mechas and one giant mecha.
the best gun would probobly be a sniper because if you are in the metalbenders line of sight, ur guns gonna become useless when they bend a firing pin or damage any internals. Mabye you can get a shot in before but the chances are still stacked against you a sniper whole point is to kill someone from really fucking far away, so that solves that problem, it also fires a bullet really really fucking fast, so they cant exactly bend the bullet
Eh not really? I mean bullets can go 2x the speed of sound far faster for any human to react in close distance or even medium distances, it would be outwards of 3km for a metal bender to affectively counter a bullet, even then a gattiling gun could put more bullets down range then a metal bender could reasonably react to.
@@meh8817 Unless your the Avatar. I can see a Metal Bending Earth Avatar just going all Magneto on them. The added Air Bending means they can sense the bullet the precise moment it leaves the barrel as well so they can counter snipers as well.
@@zhongxina9420matchlocks not muskets you’re talking about muskets in the 1700’s firearms you were talking about were matchlocks which were available to the samurai in the 1500’s
i would also assume that in a world where people can apparently react and dodge bursts of flames or lightning, you wouldn't want to shoot rocks or use fire at someone who could easily blow those back at you
The reason why the steam-engine did catch on in antiquity is large parts due to advancements in metallurgy that were required to really make it economically viable, as well as the availability of coal (due to the use of coal in the steel industry). A small toy steam engine for rich people to play with is one thing, but creating industrial steam engines would require huge amounts of high quality metal in very large work-pieces without impurities, which would be a major challenge for any pre-industrial society. Sure there were church-bells and cannons, but those things were expensive. More expensive than the little work an unoptimized steam-engine would do anyway. There is also the fact that in antiquity there was not really a formalized scientific method either and figuring out a steam engine without thermodynamics kinda sucks.
I have something I would like to add. It was not the self powered machine gun that allowed the move from swords to guns. But it is a related invention. The invention of the cartridge bullet allowed the move to guns from swords. The cartridge bullet allows for that self powered machine gun to work reliably. No more having to carry separate powder, balls and wadding. It's now all contained in a small water resistant heat resistant, safe cartridge. So any Gun that used that standard sized bullet could fire it. You are right in saying that any invention won't see enough use unless until there is a need.
It's not the brass cartridge that allowed the move from swords to guns, it's the centuries long process of trial and error on what doctrine and practice works. Guns were already a prevalent tool even in the 16th century with their origins in the 14th century. There's a big reason why pike and shot formations were so terrifying, especially with the Dutch interpretation, they would have effectively been able to contend even with bender armies Cartridges(specifically in paper form) by themselves have been a product since the Harquebus to speed up reloading and were even used in gatling guns which was way past when guns took over swords, so one can get a sense that ATLA's producers just didn't use conventional guns because it's a TV show
@@tandemcharge5114 It's not centuries of doctrine experimentation that allowed the evolution of guns to swords, it's the evolution of polearms that meant that nobody ever used swords as primary battlefield weapons in the first place.
@@williamchristy9463 It's pretty obvious that I was referring to the whole host of melee weapons in the first place in context of the original comment. And your comment isn't even accurate in the first place, there's several instances throughout history where swords were used as primary battlefield weapons in the face of even longer pikes, caveat being that they've been specialized in design
@@tandemcharge5114 I think the problem is that he said "american army used mostly swords until 1919" which is just not true? I dont know where he heard that from or how he came up with that
@@squakasog995 That's actually true on their part, it wasn't until the 1920s when the US Army took off cavalry swords as official combat weapons while other militaries took until the late 1930s to discard swords
@@BabyLionTurtle It does weirdly fit that the polar and swamp "water civilizations" are the only two based on North American cultures rather than Asian ones
For the ATLA it's true...but for TLOK, in the first book, in a group of non-benders, Looking for all ways to get one up on benders, led by one of the wealthiest and most industrial men of their time with access to factories, Their idea of an idiotic mech suit not suitable for the time that is easily immobilized by any earth bender with an IQ of at least 4, was more in line than a gun with some modifications to be used at semi long range. Especially if they could use metal so refined that even metal benders couldn't bend. It's more expensive, needs more training, is in small numbers compared to normal firearm, hard to store and distribute, not concealable at all, and uses same bola mechanism like the one the poachers used but bigger and mounted to a mech arm. But hey its "cooler", so writers went with that.
the first machine guns came out in the late 1890s it was designed by Browning it was called the potato digger as it used a underbarrel mechanism that diverted the gas to operate the gun with a spring to bring the mechanism back up to be ready for the next round
Considering how insane metal benders get, I figure that changes everything too. Imagine trying to send a shelling only for it to gently set aside every time you fired it.
here's my take on this: the roman steam engine wasn't only useless because it didn't solve a problem, but because it was missing other core technologies that would make it useful, like the chains and sprockets or transmissions. the same happens with the firearm line; the firearm wasn't developed also because it was missing a very important core technology: the cartridge. without the cartridge, there is no way to develop a firearm to self load, or to load from a magazine. all the firearms in the avatar world are muzzle loaders, because there was no need to develop the firearm, and because of that the cartridge, which is the real important invention, couldn't have been invented.
early guns were not commonly used because of 1) the precision you needed to load and reload 2) expense of the ammo. So it didn't matter. "Learn to use a boomerang/sword for free, or pay $100 a shot" so I can see this in a world where a lot of weaponry was developed AROUND bending and not other weaker weaponry.
Counterpoint: We were shown non-bending fire nation soldiers in the siege of the north, who had to use miniature catapults on mount back to fight. Guns would be a great way to increase the number of fire nation soldiers, as well as increase the non-benders' firepower. With just a little more development, they could have been made smaller and issued en masse, so a soldier could be sent out with several "pistols" to use and discard
In a world where close combat is usually fought with melee weapons and bending, it would be a waste using a gun. Bombing or artillery would work better cause long range and/or higher range.
A gun is just a piece of artillery that you hold in your hand. Imagine if you everyone in your army can kill your foes from at least 50 yards away. Instead of just a small portion of highly trained benders.
@@aweeeeh5255 even the Airbender can be good recon and fighter with their speed and water with healing capabilities. Ironically firebenders would be useless since whatever they do, modern guns do better.
@@sunshineskystar Except lighting. Although it shouldn't be too hard to defend against, your entire army would need 20 extra pounds of insulation in their armor. All that extra work just encase they have a lighting bender.
Meanwhile, we have a proud military and a missile program, and yet I wish I was a master firebender. Jumping off an airship and just flying around via firebending while showing my muscles and destroying the surrounding environment just sounds so epic. Even more epic to have a gigantic Gundam mobile suit to march into battle with. The drawing from the real life history and using the wisdom from that to the show is what all critics should do. Most people will write off things as bad writing when actually they just don’t understand it.
This is also a great insight to how just the smallest chance in history, would chance everything we know and take forgranted today. And most of the time, it depends on the indeviduals.
Also note that the West was improve firearm technology while the East (or Asia) didn’t. Like up until mid-19th century, East Asia still use flintlock and even matchlock firearms when the West already experimenting and eventually using guns that fire cartridge bullets.
It makes perfect sense. Weapons are typically made for armies as a way to mass arm people, but were in a world where people have magic element powers that can shoot stuff anyways, we have seen stuff like long range mortars used by the fire nation that work by them make a explosion in a barrel thing. Guns seem like a huge waste of time then. By not having guns it also reduces civilian violence. Because of bending you don't really see that many weapons in general because of that. I mean why pay money to arm a guy with a expensive gun when we can just get a guy who can fling boulders for free?
Also the firebending foot soldiers with the swords and spears were non benders, so itd be even more impractical to use a hand cannon. After Korra's era or probably after the events of the show, i could see equalists inventing more practical firearms.
The only way I'd see firearms in the Avatar world developing as they did with us in the real world if there was a small kingdom or small nation which possesses no benders what so ever. Meaning they have no choice but focus on developing firearms to their logical ends since they don't have any other means of defending themselves. But, I don't know how lore friendly that scenario would be to the Avatar universe.
I think guns might still be used in places like the earth kingdom where bending is relatively rare to defend walls and arm their foot soldiers against fire benders.
The issue is the industry and supply chains for gunpowder don't exist. Most of the towns we see are still isolated farmers. Ba Sing Se is the only place I would expect to have the means and the need, but their government definitely banned them.
It's not just the tech doesn't progress on a linear path but also that technology progress is also reliant on other technologies. Basically you need the infrastructure to make the technology viable. Having a lot of steam engines means you need a LOT metal of good quality properly worked and shaped into the engine. Something that Roman and Ancient china didn't really have in abundance. The other issue is pointed out in the video in that you need fuel for those engines. Since steam engines were used to help mine coal they help make their own fuel where as in Roman and China it would have likely been wood, so why have a bunch of lumberjacks cut down trees to burn for some engine when you can just directly do the work? Also in a lot of areas wood or other fuel had to be stockpiled to stay warm in winter so couldn't afford to use it on some fancy contraption. If you look through history there are a lot of items like the steam engine and fire arms that were "invented" much earlier but never caught on because the infrastructure to make them viable wasn't there. Sure one can argue if only they had known the power for fire arms they would have put more focus in it but you also need the tools and machines to manufacture them as well as smelters to process steel so you don't went up with a bunch of exploding pipes in your troops hands. It's not one invention that brings us up to the industrial revolution, it's a dozen or more all coming together.
It always made sense to me, even as a kid, they have fireworks, blasting jelly always seemed like it could be used as a replacement for gun powder, and one of the Rough Rhinos even uses grenades.
Makes sense how their technology went to tasers instead of pistols, with martial arts and close range combat being the norm it was more worth it to invest in something that knocks out your opponent with a slap, long range combat is dominated by bending and large artillery
Early firearms were inferior to every other battlefield weapon at basically everything except armor penetration. It wasn't until armor manufactures began mass producing plate armor capable of defeating things like bows and swords that the firearm was given any real time and attention. In the avatar universe armor is surprisingly rare and isn't developed enough to require the kind of power only a firearms can produce to defeat it.
Also, didn’t the dark age prevent innovation (And the further use of the steam engine in the earlier days) from happening? After years of war and possibly disease, the idea would have been either forgotten or needed to be found again to be used
Not really. Not in the way you’re thinking at least. New information and ideas spread still, and the gun was introduced into Europe and used while it was still in the dark ages. It was probably only treated as a novelty, whos true power wasn’t especially comprehended until much later
innovation drives advancement, but nessesity leads to progress. A prototype steam engine is a marvel,but if it doesn't provide enough output to replace current technology then people will be very hesitant to adopt it. If your waterwheel can power your mill or sawmill, and here comes a guy with this stinky noisy clattering thing that requires a fire or even coal to function and it can barely muster enough oomph to power a millstone at 10% of your current waterwheel. Would you buy it/adopt it? Technology must prove itself superior to the current established standard before it is widely adopted.
!["สนธิ" ห่วงมีขบวนการปกป้อง "ทนายตั้ม" : [THE MESSAGE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2GQNp3EoMc0/mqdefault.jpg)
Sokka with a Glocka
Chopper go blocka
glokka
Bro im dead
it rhymes with a dead rocka
because i have a glocka
@@josh800 he would name it that lol
In a nutshell this boils down to; "They totally had guns, its just that compared to bending, hand-cannons were far slower and clunkier, meaning no one thought to improve the basic design, thus never achieving the level of destruction posed by modern firearms."
you nailed it!
@@BabyLionTurtle Thanks!
Except.... what about non-benders? Why'd they never really explore guns further? Would probably still take longer for them to develop, as benders would be too ahead of the curve on the battlefield, but renegades and curious minds might continue to pursue the technology.
@@olimar7647 didn't you see? in the show they pretty much used exclusively bender armies, because well, bending is a weapon, and it's superior, so why would you employ someone that isn't a bender as a soldier?
@@matheusGMN Yeah, that's what I meant to refer to when I mentioned the tech would probably develop slower. Armies wouldn't have much use for guns until they got highly advanced, and so a huge chunk of the incentive would be taken out.
However, a non-bender renegade or innovator may still pursue gun tech for their own purposes, whether that be the hope of rivaling benders (before metal bending cropped up and threw another hindrance at guns) or the insatiable desire to test what might be possible. And as a result of these individuals, guns could slowly advance to be more practical.
Think of how easy it would’ve been for Zuko in season one if he just mastered Glock bending
You made me laugh, thanks!
*_☠️_*
But he needed the Avatar alive, so that’s a no.
@@mikeval1525 you can shoot the legs
Avatar, the last gunbender
The presence of the Avatar also had an impact on weapon development. The Avatar's goal is to keep the world balanced/at peace. Wartime speeds up the invention of weapons. Without constant threat of war due to the Avatar's efforts, there would be no incentive to mass develop advanced weaponry.
Exactly. Perhaps for the better. Just look at the Fire nation. No Avatar to stop them means they were able to advance their war weapons.
@@silverhawkscape2677 what about cults or hidden organizations that the avatar has no knowledge of
@@oinkytheink1228 Dude. Tech development requires lots of people and resources. If an Organizational is hidden enough that the Avatar doesn't know, they likely are too small to make significant headway in technology.
@@silverhawkscape2677 like season 1 of legend of Korra?
@@oinkytheink1228 How often do you see inventions made by terrorist cells no one knows of?
Fun fact: Their was a guy who fought WW2 with a bow and arrow. This video made me think of that fact. This video makes a lot of sense and is extremely compelling to watch, particularly the combination of history and how it relates to the show. Among the best videos I've seen on an Avatar topic. Oh and I just learned that the guys name is Jack Churchill September 16 1906- March 8 1996. He also had bagpipes and a Scottish broadsword. Rest in peace sir, you were quite brave as was my grandpa and all other WW2 vets.
He also went into battle playing a bag pie.....mad lad charging into machine gun fire blowing on some cow guts.
And his reaction to the Americans dropping the nuclear weapons on Japanese was "we could have kept this going another 5 years if it wasn't from those dam Americans ......capita jack was definitely at home on the battlefield
Yep! They called em Mad jack, and not only did he go with a bow but a sword too
I know this is a serious comment, but that's just Demoman TF2
@@notageologist3022 or rather, Demoknight.
Minus the eyepatch.
he also founded the sas
The other reason is that they were a feudal society with a clear class structure based in no small part on magic ability. Meaning that not only were the primitive guns not as effective as bending but the rulers had a vested interest in not giving the lower orders a weapon that would level the power divide even a little. In the real world the rulers of many countries banned peasants from owning military weapons like swords and latter guns but they also had to use them themselves because they did not have magic powers that were inherently unavailable to the people at large. This meant that the weapons could not be suppressed completely like it can in a fantasy setting since they were still present in the military and among the upper classes meaning when there was a rebellion or relaxing of the oppression the common people knew what guns were and they were still being made.
Very true but I also will say that I fantasy sending can go both ways pretty damn easily of either it's a class based society that would outright punish, inprison, or kill anyone who would dare overthrow that power difference and Legend of Korra was The Logical endpoint of such an idea because just as the gauntlets were made to help level the playing field against benders, it's in that same vein that you can't stop the people at large from being intelligent or being clever enough to figure out how to make something either like a gun or something that has a similar amount of power as a gun.
On the inverse there's the other side of the spectrum where it's a world that doesn't have such a class to buy or if it does it doesn't really care to enforce it but rather it's more so just a "it is how it is..." Type situation. Basically in such a situation is that kind of like how we see with for example the people who were traveling across the Earth nation and needed to get past the Great Divide, in the Avatar World there is a absolute metric shit ton of giant ass monsters that could destroy anyone in an instant southern people pretty damn good reason someone would want to try to develop a weapon to fight such monsters and be able to travel across the world safely. Basically no matter what there will always be good justification in my mind in a fantasy story for guns to exist and quite often fantasy settings honestly make it more likely guns will exist at some point in some fashion even though people for some reason hate the idea of even just basic ass Flintlock pistols and rifles.
This is an excellent observation and it plays into my views on guns. I am not a hardcore 2nd amendment gun owner. Realistically I could never fight the government. However, casual gun ownership has the effects you mentioned simply because the government can't magically make them go away.
@@timbrwolf1121 My view is similar there are plenty of historical and political precedents for gun ownership in the real world and that casual gun ownership tends to be on the whole a good thing for the society. I will say however that the toxic relationship many of the gun nuts have developed with guns in recent years is even more unhealthy then a complete ban would be.
This argument doesn't really hold up because firearms allows for a monarch to easily centralize authority by allowing them to equip a relatively large standing army on the cheap. It's much faster to train someone to use a firearm than it is a sword, or to use bending. Relying solely on bending would be unreliable as not everyone is a bender, most people, in fact, are nonbenders. Only in the air nation did everybody have the ability to bend.
Once a weapon is invented, it cannot be uninvented. And firearms are a huge game changer. They would be more effective than swords and spears, and much easier to train recruits with. Months worth of training could be reduced to weeks.
The idea that they didn't use guns was to keep them out of the peasants hands also doesn't really hold up. Either they are less effective, in which case them having guns isn't going to give a peasant much of an advantage over, say, bows, spears, and swords, or they ARE effective, in which case all it would take is one king within the Earth Kingdom to see their advantages and decide that they wanted a competitive advantage over the other kings in the Earth Kingdoms.
@@minutemansam1214 that's just it though is that the Fire Nation was an island luck Nation much akin to Japan with a lot of mountainous regions again like Japan meaning they were in the issue of not really being able to have too much land in general so they had to do their best to make it so it was mostly agricultural and use the space they had most efficiently and this is also why the Fire Nation started trying to take over the Earth Kingdom because the Earth Kingdom just had so much land and so much more places for them to actually properly much larger amounts of metal as well as much more land for things like agriculture or things of that nature. Basically it was more cost effective to rather than paying for all the guns to be made to fill up this giant army of basically peasants who can only fight so long as they have their guns or they could just take a smaller pop portion of the population and use them with their natural fire bending abilities to outperform those peasants. Beyond that since the guy who actually had the gun in the tabletop game was a Fire Nation member, it seems to imply that that Innovation was only made in the fire nation which again is the place where it was least likely to take off
I always wondered if humanity having super powers like in these fictional worlds could hinder our technological development. I guess this is a case in which it did happen.
Well, probably not so much hinder as redirect.
In a world of telepaths, we probably wouldnt bother inventing cranes, but we might get all kinds of creative with our engineering and architecture since the problem of "getting big heavy thing up to tall place" is no longer a factor.
In the same way, looking at ATLA, there is one faction in the world with easy access to the heat required to power all kinds of foundries and steam engines for heavy industry, so they ended up far technologically superior to any other nation, yet other nations can be far more flexible in the construction of their cities and infrastructure, because theyre capable to manipulate large parts of their buildings and environment with little effort.
We develop technology to solve problems we couldnt on our own, if you have the ability to solve those problems already, that lets you move on to other problems instead.
@@TheSpeep telepaths? Did you mean telekinesis?
@@MondeSerenaWilliams Oh, right, woops, I'm dumb, but you get what I mea..
Take the Empire of Man in Warhammer Fantasy. What makes the Empire great? Faith, Steel, and Gunpowder!
And also the Colleges of Magic.
I've seen plotlines of wizards being commonplace made technology regress back to the dark ages. Since most problems could just be solved with magic, why even use the resources for technology?
Love the use of Overanalyzing Avatar's "Oh, and there goes the staff." and changing it to be hand cannon instead.
I noticed that too, it was great!
That caught be off guard and made me laugh
The thumbnail said cannon but I said gun
Republic City in Korra's time is actually the perfect origin point for guns to suddenly be relooked at. In the era of bender vs nonbender rights, more and more nonbenders are gonna look at ways to level the playing field. Sure the mechsuits and electric gloves play a part in that, but guns eventually will too. ALTHOUGH, going through the tedious years of figuring out handgonne -> matchlock -> flintlock etc., basically gunpowder in general is a nonstarter. If only they saw some super powerful cannon that could annihilate anything in it's path that could be fired by anyone...
That's right, I think Avatar's world is gonna progress down developing and miniaturizing spirit energy cannons to eventually develop spirit laser guns. Not only does this make sense in terms of worldbuilding, not only does it bypass the "guns are too violent for a kids show" regulation with lasers, but it introduces a really interesting conflict for the next Avatar's society, exploiting the natural (spirit) world for a short term advantage heedless of long term damage. Sound pretty topical~
With the new Earth Kingdom Avatar show being on streaming, as well as set in a more modern setting, they might just go ahead and have guns too.
So far, I think all the antagonists have been benders. A non bender who is a true threat and the main antagonist would be interesting. I doubt the bender versus non bender sentiments disappeared with Amon.
My analysis:
If the Fire Nation had discovered the power of modern artillery, then the war would have been a lot shorter. Their range and accuracy would have improved dramatically, along with the types of ammunition they'd use. They would most likely be using HE (Highly Explosive) Ammunition, as it would cause the most devastation.
If Aang still succeeded in ending the war, then the Fire Nation's Navy, as seen in Season 1, their efficiency in combat would be much better. Aman (season 1 antagonist) would also have been easier to deal with, unless he got this technology into his and his followers hands as well.
In short, firearms would have been both good and bad for the world. It would have been cool to see, but if in the wrong hands it could have been significantly worse for the 4 nations.
@@PelafinaLievreWhat you said about an antagonist using firearms, that could work out well. Make him a skilled gunslinger, he'd be a force to be reckoned with.
Guns laws would be an interesting topic in a world where people can throw rocks with their minds and shoot fire from their hands.
instead they made a giant mech.
There was a kid in one of the books that used sling bullets and earth bending to aimbot.
In real life, the only reason guns replaced slings, and then eventually bows was how little training you needed, and the psychological effect the pyrotechnics had.
oh yeah do you mean lek?
Bullets would be faster and take far less effort than using a sling would. increasing calibers and making bullets go faster would also make slings obsolete.
@matthaeuspoeta6461 Increasing caliber doesn't make a bullet go faster. Usually it does the opposite unless you increase the powder load to go with it.
And slings were the original bullet launching device. And were about as powerful as a musket.
Guns are great because you don't need to learn to use it as a little kid for it to be a serious weapon when you are an adult. But if you can earth bend, you can get the power of a gun shot, with a small, feather weight weapon that looks like a bracelet or headband when you're not using it.
@@matthaeuspoeta6461 slingstones can still rival modern .45 acp for kinectic energy. Dont underestimate the sling. The sling is not the slingshot. You know David and goliath, the story of the kid bringing a sling to a biblical duel with a giant? people in the modern day tell it as a slingshot and act like its some crazy divine intervention that he won. The reality is he basically brought a gun to a swordfight and just shot the guy in the head at the start of the 'duel'.
The boring answer is that it was still technically a kids show, so guns were more or less a no no depending on the network at the time. But still a really cool video nonetheless
Sure there's that, but....the Video has a point. Coffee was originally created by the Muslims, but it took Europeans to understand it's Potential. The Muslims just used it to help with Prayer during special times. The Europeans were like "Oh hey we can use this to stay up late!"
An it wasn't until later that the Muslims began to use Coffee as a more Every Day Beverage AFTER it being REintroduced.
If there's a Cheaper & Easier way to do things, humans will just do that instead. We get LAZY.
ALSO: It's 100% possible that someone DID think of this in the Fire Kingdom, since they became more Technologically Advanced, but it would have been seen as a HUGE threat to the Benders. An thus it would have been destroyed and hidden. 1 Bender of Average Talent would EASILY be worth 10+ soldiers. Now imagine what would happen if one could be easily killed by 1 NON-Bender.
I mean the Catholic Church BANNED Crossbows, due to how easily they could be used by Peasants to kill Knights, who were the Wealthy Elite. It was deemed too dangerous for how it Disrupted the Status Quo. Thus it's 100% possible that some Rogue Inventor could have created it, but it was Covered Up, like a Conspiracy.
It’s kinds crazy tho, how rango has that many guns while still being pg
@@Volonanostress Also Regular Show. There was an episode where the FBI unloaded miniguns, anti-material rifles and a rocket launcher on some robots
@@Volonanostress Batman TAS got away with it by using Tommyguns
@@TheAyanamiRei
It also contradicts all the insanely fast development in technology in a time of peace!
You're video didn't get to why they didn't make bullets in LOK. Although they had invented guns of sorts (ie. net cannons and electrified gloves), metal bullets would have been useless against the police who could just metalbend them away. Instead they invented weapons that targeted the police's weakness. It goes back to your point of there being a problem to fix, and the Equalists' first problem was taking down the metalbending police force, and the best way would be to use their power against them; metal conducts electricity
oh, I absolutely love this - great point!
I wonder if metal benders would be able to react fast enough to deflect a bullet though. Bullets from hand cannons (and even 1920s era rifles) moved slower than modern day rounds, but you'd still need insane reflexes. I feel like Toph might be able to with her seismic sense, but who knows for the rest.
@@BabyLionTurtle That's true, but they could also just have metal shields protecting themselves at all times jic. Then they wouldn't need reflexes necessarily, but forethought
True but those are very different fields of technology, the ATLA universe had literal TANKS who could shoot BULLETS, yet had no guns? that makes no sense (though i understand why they did, because instead of bending you could just shoot someone, and the universe’s magic system would be rendered useless)
@@Forit26 All the tanks in ATLA use firebender, just aimed through a barrel. There's also a few large crossbows with explosive arrows. Definitely no bullets though.
@@BabyLionTurtle actually this kinda depends,
Before explaining outright a fire, air, and earth(metal) bender could hypothetically stop a bullet, but in order for a bending type to be active said chakra must be lit(the avatar is technically not the only one who can light more than one chakra, just the only one who can light them all at once)you’d also need to have been passed down the bending type genetically,by a lion turtle or by a spirit as these are the only ways we’ve seen bending given, and you’d need a spiritual connection to the elements you’re given or they don’t work.
Now to explain, depending on the bullet a bender can stop it regardless because once their chakra is lit they can create a shield like ball out of their element without moving,so it’s safe to say that though you need a movement to move a element you don’t need a movement to control one near you, so the second the bullet gets near them they can just stop it, a water benders a exemption as they actually need water to bend and blood bending has never been showed to work at a large distance.It also seems that a bender can’t control something another bender is already moving unless they’re the avatar or said bender has more power, so the easiest way to make a bullet that no bender can mess with is by having multiple metal benders give the bullet a slight boost as it comes out of the chamber making it impossible to bend back unless your power is greater than that of multiple benders.
So pretty much only the avatar could technically stop a bullet that was actually built with bending in mind.....
They never used them because of Sokka had access to a gun the show would’ve ended in three episodes, with the last two being about Aang and Katara trying to stop Sokka using his gun
“You can’t stop me from shooting those scum to kingdom come”
*Shoots melon lord*
sokka got the glokka
pov: fathom and clearsight trying to keep darkstalker good in wof
Well if sokka in the south pole had a gun then i can't fanthom what the firenation would have
The main advantages of early firearms were that lesser trained people could be effective with them, and they could penetrate armour. Nether of those thing are common in this setting.
Especially when all/most soldiers are benders
They also scared people. But good luck scaring someone who can explode you back or throw a tank sized bolder at your head.
9:25 Yeah the US and others used swords, but obviously we also used guns much more frequently. Swords were used for cavalry, and the trench warfare seen in WWI makes highly mobile horse troops pointless. And self-powered machine guns weren't first used in WWI either, the Maxim was in wide use since the 1880s during the Scramble for Africa as well as the Russo-Japanese War in 1904. The invasion of Guantanamo Bay during the Spanish-American War was the US' first use in combat. The Colt-Browning was used as well
Good comment but on that cavalry bit a wonderful lad by the name of Brandon F. Made a video on it, it's a good video you should check it out.
Also the gattling gun though not self powered still has a machine gun like effect
Wait, you like Avatar too, Avery?
I think it should be noted that even when firearms came to Europe it took another couple hundred years for Europeans to begin using them in quantity, and this was during a period with constant warfare between states which created pressure for military innovation. The Swiss were the first to make effective military use of firearms with their "Pike & Shot" formations but it was not until the advent of flintlocks and bayonets in the 18th century that mass infantry armed with muskets dominated the battlefields of Europe and beyond. China, in comparison, where gunpowder had originated, lacked the pressure for military innovation present in Europe and thus lagged behind
"Pike & Shot" formation originates from Holy Roman Empire and Spain. It first appeared at the end of 15th century and was replaced by bayonets which came in 17th century
@@flamefox6236 thank you, I didn't realize that it had come from the HRE and Spain
@@flamefox6236 Hold up, it took TWO FUCKING CENTURIES for people to think: "Y'know what would be a good idea? Attaching a blade to the end of my gun." Seriously?
@@bobwilson679 To be fair they were busy killing eachother.
@@bobwilson679 Not really, a bayonet back then wouldnt be as effective as it was 2 centuries later
It’s actually really cool seeing people who are missing limbs substitute them in The Avatar universe, Ming-Hua’s water tentacles and now The Razor’s stone hand.
toph kind of replace her eyes with earth bending
Yeah, and Aang replacing Gyatso's 1992 Crown Victoria with the air scooter
I'm just imagining an Indiana Jones moment where a bender drops into a fighting stance and waves their arms around to bend their element.
Then the non-bender they are fighting just whips out a pistol and drops them on the spot.
Metal benders be like
@@Poppyblender Their not going to react fast enough to stop it or even see it.
@@brandonlyon730 yah you hear it and it’s already in you
@@Betito1171
korra was in Pain to metal bend something out her body,now imagine something struck ur vital organs halfway and you have to metal bend it out without seeing it
@@brandonlyon730 Just develop hard plastic rounds. As long as it pierces through muscle, a shot to the chest will kill.
I'd be more worried about metal benders causing the gun to jam.
I never understood why Earth benders don't just hurl small pieces of rock toward there enemies. Especially after metal bending was discovered, and they could make small metal arrow heads basically.
Skill issue
They did, as told in Kyoshi books. One of the earth benders threw a tiny, almost invisible to the naked eye piece of stone straight trough his opponent's neck killing him almost instantly. It's definitely a technique used in the universe. The shows were just too PG to show them :v
Because its a kids-show in the end. A new series and movies are coming soon. It would be nice if there was an r-rated film to show how brutal bending can be. Not all of course, the series should continue to be for younger audiences. But one movie like that would be epic. And it would certainly be worth it, they must know that parts of their audience have aged with them.
@@kacarek2402 Actually I think that kind of thing was actually a specialized skill. Precise work seems pretty difficult for benders in general. We see those smaller movements more from advanced benders who have trained to do it. So yeah, its probably a skill issue.
That's why the fire nation used full metal armor probably. I mean stone is hard but against steel it breaks
"When we hear gun, we think of this" *proceeds to show the most American pastime.* They never used them because if Sokka had access to a gun the show would’ve ended in three episodes, with the last two being about Aang and Katara trying to stop Sokka using his gun. All jokes aside, metal benders using their skill to curve and direct bullets and other metallic ammunition towards targets would be absolutely terrifying and an interesting concept.
Ahora que lo pienso imagínate una persona que controla el metal desarmada enfrentándose sola a un montón de personas con pistolas modernas simplemente redirigiendo las balas como si nada
Basically,
Fire nation: “Why should I use a gun, when my hands ARE guns.”
Non fire benders: “Why should I use what my comrade can turn into *friendly fire?”*
more importantly if a firebender shoots the spear it is more screwed.
It’s funny that the friendly firebender (a good thing) could be responsible for friendly fire (a very similar sounding bad thing)
*firebender ally bends the fire from a gun to swoop behind the attacker*
gunner: "you literally stole my thunder"
METAL BENER: THANKS FOR THE BULLET
Earthbenders: Haha gravel bucket go *brrrrrrrrrrrr-*
Avatar: The Last Airbender if people used guns:
"It's blank!" - Po, after reading the dragon scroll.
@@Badgerinary more like a just few pages.
Epside 1 & 2 go normally until Zuko pulls out an MP5
@@azekia nah, better if it was Flintlock level tech or cap and ball revolver level tech.
the biggest advantage guns gave was the fact that you could quickly train soldiers to use them unlike bows or crossbows (crossbows at the time had better penetrative power and took less time to reload than the first rifle muskets)
so having guns would mean you could put non benders on the battle field massively increasing your own nation's firepower
Good point, but at the same time you have lots of logistical issues as your army increases. The fire nation is the one most likely to develop guns but at the same time they are invading and we can see that they have only a handful of men in most places because firebenders can control a population very easier. The non-benders are likely just a mean of surveillance in their army to ensure the firebenders are always in the right place. And if you arm them with low skill weapons, then the weapons can be stolen making the gun a net negative for occupation.
Though for home defense in the fire nation, I think your point makes a good case for why they should be common.
What a raw deal for the nonbenders.
given that benders are a larger chunk of the population than military to civilians has ever been at any point in history, recruiting non benders for frontline roles just seems stupid in the ATLA universe
@@greensike8516 fire air water and earth still get beat by bullet though
@Viperstriker4 plus there are always some classism involved too. It's mentioned quite extensively in the aang comics that non benders are somewhat a second class citizens in some nations or regions, even in labor because earthbender can easily mine minerals and metals, before the invention of machineries.
This video is a master class analysis on the relationship between politics and technological progress, which demonstrates the non-linearity of hisotircal progress, perhaps inadvertently showing the flaws in Hegel's theory of history.
Amazing video!
I wonder how Hegel's explained the ebbs and flow of fascist movements and increased autonomy derived from technological progress
The last sentence actually made me laugh out loud. I love how you brought the beginning joke about the pipebomb back once more. Caught me completely of guard, ngl.
honestly sokka just using a gun seems a lot more like him than a sword
why not but sword and gun for Sokka?
Hell, a fintlick level firearm tech with Lorenzoni crank systems for more shots could work.
@@drivanradosivic1357 Or a straight up revolver
@@carso1500 if it was the cap and ball tech, yes. Black powder cartridge guns with internal magazines would also work.
@@drivanradosivic1357 Could be something like a caplock, single action early industrial, or a late wheel-lock?
@@Baconator5642 I was thinking wheatlock to flintlock tier firearms(including the versatile blunderbuss aka portable cannon) tech for Aang's era, Korra's could use revolvers, early semi automatic and automatic firearms and so on.
I do wonder if there could be a colony of non-benders somewhere in the world, maybe some evil non-bending empire that wanted to conquer the world but obviously couldn't, because they just straight up can't fight benders, so they actually started investing into the gun technology and managed to get it to WW1 level. I guess that could make for an interesting post-Korra series.
"Oh so you're a bender,and you prefer close range combat."
*sitting 400 meters away in a bush with m107 and ballistic tracker*
"Too bad i have a .50 bmg sniper."
The British Empire Avatar edition
@@platinumchromee3191 ya that would be a interesting concept but in that case would weapons that specifically enhance benders ability be researched by benders what they would look like I don’t know but that could lead to a lot of interesting technology.
It reminds me of shingeki no kyojin that by the end stretch of the series the titan power was rivaled by technology and weapons
America
When people canonically dodge/react fast enough to lightning it kind of makes sense that a highly inaccurate black powder weapon wouldn't catch on very well since people will just dodge it if you would hit your target. As a result its likely that firearms wouldn't see much use or development because you'd have a better chance of hitting people with a sword, in Saka's case a boomerang. Heck that boomerang is probably traveling multiple times the speed of sound from his throw.
Arguably it depends on situation. Sure, a single guy with a hand cannon... well let's face it, your an idiot. A line 30 men across and 5 ranks deep from a nation that figured out volley fire? Now the bender may have a problem....
Well, the characters we watch that could do that are all highly skilled martial arts masters, I assume if you used a gun on a regular Firebender they wouldn't do well against them.
Do they react to lightning or the move that throws lightning?
I feel like Sokka would annihilate a metal airship if the boomerang did go past Mach 1.
1v1 using smooth bore rifle doesn't make sense both in the avatar world and real world. They're just too inaccurate. That's why back then people fight in lines so that some of them have a chance to hit someone.
In theory, thanks to lightning bending, fire benders can technically used railguns. A team of metal bender and lightning benders can increase the speed of the railgun too!
Exactly. Funny is that if we had access to magic now we'd make it giant leap in Teh because our Energy Problems will be met easily for such technology.
There was an even bigger obstacle to guns in Avatar the censors. It is very hard to get the censors to let you show guns in a kid's show. The makers of Batman: TAS were able to do it because they had a network executive who was really supportive of the show and helped bend the rules with the censors.
To those who think metal benders can just bend the bullet. Sure, they can but let's see you use bendung to deflect a small projectile being shot at you at top speed
It's like catching a fly with chopsticks. Except the fly is moving several times the speed of sound.
Against sniping, no. But in close range fighting, a metalbender could probably bend all of the bullets together in the magazine. Or they could flatten the barrel, turning the gun into a backfiring explosive. Or they could simply summon the gun from distance. All of these tactics would likely result from the proliferation of guns.
@@markusbiewer9721 At that point the bender could just smash a rock into the skull of the shooter. But, I mean, it's a gun. Its whole schtick is far-away combat.
Yea, everyone in the show gets hit by ranged attacks at some point, even from bending of their own type. Earthbenders hit each other with rocks all the time, firebenders hit each other with fireballs. They wouldn't be able to handle projectiles past a certain speed without great level of preparation.
Also, we know from LoK that metalbenders cannot bend metal of high purity.
@@markusbiewer9721 In one fanfic I read, Asami states that there were small parts in guns where if it was crushed or bent, it'd make the gun useless.
I’d love to see the next avatar need to deal with guns.
Trying to stay incognito to avoid assassination while questioning their purpose in the world.
Simple revolvers (called the equalist) and lever action rifles (called the Yuyan).
Unfortunately they jumped the shark in Korra with giant mechs and hummingbird helicopters which cant even be built today so…
Yeah
i mean tbf the giant mech was metalbent
@@Lank2Tank Though there are still the small mechs.
@@Lank2Tank they had big ass mechs that were not metal bent
Hopefully there is not going to be any more sequel after Korra's garbage
Avatar TLA to me feels like it’s in the Wild West era while LOK is early 1900s so it makes sense that guns did exist during both their eras.
Yeah essentially. ATLA is pretty much early 1800s Industrial Revolution while TLOK is the 1920s which is why you get that jump in technology. It makes sense if you look at it from the perspective of real world inventions that exist in the show as well and the time that passes.
@@ghostlain exactly people get mad at LOK cause of the technology yet they don’t pay attention to the fact that tech was already becoming a thing in TLA, we see war tanks, submarines, trucks, air balloons: thanks to Sokka and in the Commics there were forklifts too. It’s thanks to Aang era that we got an industrial revolution in Korra’s.
@@ghostlain The tech we see in ATLA is closer to the 1870s than the 1800s.
@@fazbrogaming7776 the problem is the technology got to far, cars and electricity makes sense. But laser canons and giant robots just destroy the aesthetic and theme of the show.
@@sunshineskystar laser canons I get your point, but I think that giant robots, in a universe where people can bend metal and electricity, makes some sense
Brike runs the avatar cannon into the ground
“Let me explain why this was smart and always the case”
During the Wan story in Korra, there are gun noises when they're talking about the war. It could be that they were just like "These are sounds people will recognize as war." but, it could also be that guns were being used during that war 10,000 years before Korra.
If a civilization can build tanks airships and a giant drill they can definitely make a Maschine gun.
Yea the technological disparity within ATLA and LOK doesn’t really make any sense.
But in the end, it’s supposed to be a kids show.
@@azmah8523 I mean in the real world, we had rockets that could put people on the moon at the same time as when our best cameras were 144p, black & white, and filled with static. One of the Wright brothers was still alive when the atomics bombs were used. Harvard University is older than the concept of calculus.
That's not one correct path. Maybe our real work technological disparity is what makes no sense lol
@@azmah8523 The great thing about fantasy is that it doesn’t need to make sense.
@@azmah8523 I completely disagree. In real life what gets invented is pretty random especially around the world.
They even mention in the video about how steam engines were "invented" at least 4 times independently by societies in Massively different tech levels.
If the first steam engines caught on 2000 years ago you would probably you say it is unrealistic that people would be too stupid to figure it out until only 200 years ago.
Also the fire nation has trains and even tanks fighting people that don't even have guns... That happened all the time in real life. The fire nation is just the most advanced nation fighting nations that are less advanced, it makes perfect sense.
@@azmah8523 i mean, it kinda does make sense when you think about it.
ATLA is set in the middle of an industrial evolution, considering Sokka invents hot air baloons in the show, and that the firt recorded flight was in 1783, it make sense to consider ATLA as being set in the early 19th century; now, 20 years have passed between ATLA and TLOK, which despite being less than a century timeskip which could have brought us from the first industrial revolution to the early 1900s, is still only about a 20 years difference from our own world. I wouldn't say it's that farfetched
This gave me an idea for a Avatar title that could tie firearms in, "The Legend of the Avatar: One in the Chamber." It'd be about a new Avatar who has to combat a new age full of bullets and benders who are out to kill the avatar and they are stronger than anything either Korra or Aang has ever faced. I feel like if Korra would be World War 1, this new age would be World War 2 so we build around that. I think the rest of the bits could fall easily into place.
And then the enemy is hitler with earth bending that can create Stone Nazi Army.
Firebenders catch lightning out of the air and metalbending is a thing, so I think bullets aren't really as big of a deal as ppl think they are, at least in LoK.
Not everyone is a metal bender though. Shoot the fire, wind and water guy. Electrocute the metal guys.
@@dustingaethje1332 you act like they could react to a bullet
@@X_RayLT its not realistic, but it *is* realistic for this particular universe. if people can react to lightning why not bullets
Combustionbending was the "safe" route of initiating firearms -- literally -- cos everyone can "shoot" BUT can they "blast?"
I imagine this happening.
Sokka: I have metal bending!
Toph: No you don’t?
Sokka just whips out the 1911
I mean, even a bolt-action rifle would give a significant advantages to non benders
I don't think even a metalbender would stand a chance stopping a bullet from an early gunpowder weapon, even if they'd be able to bend the bullet, the reflexes necessary just aren't within human capacity.
To prove this, you can play a simple game with a friend: let them hold out a dollar bill and place your hand JUST below it, ready to pinch it out of the air when your friend decides to let go, you may not move your hand down in order to catch it and your friend may give you no warning when they let go.
Even though you KNOW and fully anticipate him to drop the bill, ready to do a simple pinch to stop it, you'll find yourself unable to catch it most of the time simply because your brain has to perceive when the dollar gets dropped, then decide to do the pinch in time, all of which is a much simpler process than slapping bullets out of the air with an arm motion.
These weapons are meant for close range, meaning that a metalbender would already have to be in the process of making the bending move required to avert the bullet before it exits the weapon, at the moment that they hear a "BANG", it takes only a tenth of a second before a ball of lead embeds itself into their squishy bodies.
Bending certainly is a more powerful and versatile weapon, but that goes for any non-bender alternative out there so far, besides, early guns were built to serve as melee weapons considering how slow and clumsy the reload process was, so you'd still have a club/billhook when after you take your shot, which is a big step up from a sword.
However, it is still possible that their use dried up because of the fire nation's enormous demand for fresh troops on the field and drilling guys in the use of spears is simply much quicker than training them for handguns, its a logistical concession, probably based on most benders opting for lighter armour in favor of easier bending so handbows and crossbows would still suffice as a ranged option.
You talk about early gunpowder weapons but tgen use the feats of modern ones to prove your point. Early hand cannons projectiles weren't a fraction as fast as the ones we have today, and if compared to what firebending could do at the same time in a easier way, it wouldn't be worth persuing the idea.
@@plotylty They literally didn't use the feats of modern weapons to prove their points? Even if a black powder weapon is only a fraction of the speed of modern smokeless spitzer rounds, you're vastly underestimating their speed. Even a crossbow is too fast for a human to reasonably react to, and you can see the distinct shape of the bolt move through the air. Even with black powder weapons a lead ball will be an indistinct blur you have to train your eyes to catch in flight
@@Ezekiel_Allium Except in the Avatar universe we regularly see benders reacting fast enough to dodge and/or intercept arrows and crossbow bolts with their bending. Clearly, the Avatar universe is operating under ninja movie rules where skilled humans can very much intercept something as fast as a bullet. Not to mention, a single skilled bender already accomplishes everything a medieval pike-and-shot formation does, but better. Why make a squad with a hundred dudes armed with hand cannons when you can hire a handful of skilled earth benders to lob rocks at people with pinpoint accuracy and a sustained fire rate that only a machine gun could hope to match?
@@furrytrash8399 I feel like you may have missed the point of me saying a black powder weapon is still an order of magnitude faster than a crossbow bolt.. somehow.
And my counterpoint to your eathbender, even if he could react faster than a bullet (I doubt it even by avatars very anime standards) itwould take one guy in a concealed position with a gun to put him down instantly, not to mention the earth bender can also use a gun. Bending takes effort, time, and an open, convenient position, a gun can be shot from cover or while prone, or if you're caught off guard and need a convenient instant kill button to back you up. The earthbender could literally use his bending to complement the gun, give himself a temporary pillbox he can fire from.
Also like, skilled earth/metal bender snipers could produce rifled barrels much easier, could reshape a bullet from a shape convenient to load into an aerodynamic one in flight to make effective use of smoothbore weapons etc.
@@Ezekiel_Allium Except it isn't lol. A medieval firearm was not shooting bullets at 1000+ FPS, it was firing much larger rounds at a few hundred feet per second. Certainly faster than the heavy and extremely sluggish crossbow bolts of the day, but not much faster than a modern lightweight bolt can fly. Certainly not so fast that you can just claim without evidence that an avatar character with already superhuman reflexes couldn't possibly react to it.
Overall I think you just have an extremely inaccurate picture of just how shitty medieval firearms actually were. Nobody was using hand cannons as sniper rifles, that would've been ridiculous. The very concept of a rifle took hundreds of years to develop, and hundreds more years to develop into something that could actually be used in the ways you're describing.
And again, why would anyone in the avatar universe spend all this time trying to develop the fairly shitty hand cannon into a usable weapon when it's made completely irrelevant by the firepower and flexibility of any competent bender? Who would look at their fireworks mortars and say "I bet I could develop this into a military weapon that matches the guy who can shoot fireballs out of his hands for lethality"
Well I think you are neglecting one of greatest benefits guns would have in the AtLA universe that being the ability to make your non-bending population combat viable. If one powerful fire bender fought 10 schmucks with swords who haven't had a day of training in their entire life the bender would wipe the floor with them, but if you were in the exact same situation the 10 schmucks had hand cannons (also swords because people generally had a back up close quarters weapon such as bayonets or swords) the bender would probably go down instantly
idk youd have to have people making those guns first tho. if they start out awful and more easily countered than swords, then nobody wants to use guns, and nobody wants to make better guns, so nobody has guns that work against firebenders
@@leori-7477 Well yes most guns well before rifling was invented were incredibly inaccurate, (Rifling was the process of adding spiral grooves into the barrel to give the bullet a spin and make it more accurate and travel farther.) But when you have a large mass of hand cannons that problem is negated. The other large benefit at the time was ambushes, if your enemy was marching on a road forest you could set up hand cannons at the edge and be ready to fire at a moments notice with the smoke and sound only adding to the surprise and panic
a mediocore rock bender could neutralize an early rifle
so could a water bender
a fire bender
an air bender
and for non-bender soldiers, they had other range weapons that were still a lot more effective in most settings.
@@malashebad6181 Well considering the Yuyan archers are shown as very combat effective despite being as easily countered as a rifleman also how would a fire bender and airbender stop a bullet
@@Otto_Von_Beansmarck Exactly, that just seems like nonsense. Maybe you can argue that an Airbender could use their ability to change the trajectory of the bullet while traveling. But I doubt one could react fast enough to do that to the projectile, let alone a volley of them.
Excellent argument. After all, in our world, with muskets and early firearms, we would have lines of men march up to each other and fire at what we’d consider point blank range. Look at 178th to 19th centurywarfare.
To sum t up, till the American Civil War or World War I, guns were very in accurate and not exactly that powerfully, compared to bending,
A smoothbore musket can be accurate up to 50 yards if the ball is the same size as the bore.
Besides, with spears, you need to get even closer, and we know that most militaries in the Avatar universe used spears as their dominant weapon. Any argument against firearms apply moreso to spears.
Also, if you look up 17th and 18th century warfare, typical engagement distances were in the range of several hundred yards. They didn't shoot each other point blank. A smoothbore musket has an effective range of 300 yards, even if it isn't that accurate, 3,000 people shooting in one direction is going to cause a lot of death.
him: *explains a full on paragraph about guns not being used in avatar*
me: it's a kids show
To be honest, they should of modified the electric gloves Asami Sato or the Equalists used in the Legend of Korra, to shoot out repulsor rays or electrobolts kind of like Iron Man.
So that way it would serve as a firearm for the Modern Day Avatar universe.
I mean Mai had those Knife Projectile darts coming out of her sleeves in Avatar The Last Airbender, why not this one?
Excellent analysis, Very informative. It makes me think about the antikythera mechanism, it also must have been written off as a niche technology or too expensive for mass production in it's time but they really had no idea how close they were to saving the species a thousand years haha.
Considering the Equalists’ whole deal was leveling the playing field, wouldn’t non-benders be particularly interested in guns since they have no other handy means to protect themselves against benders?
They would be, assuming that firearm technology would be a leveller. It's likely that firearms meant to kill are pretty primitive even in Korra's time because early firearms are... kinda shit. Like, in real life, firearms didn't immediately supplant archery and melee combat because they had so many drawbacks. It's dubious that any military would think too much into such a then-unreliable technology, even one specifically focused on countering bending. Why bother using a weapon that isn't accurate (smoothbore), takes several minutes to reload, is extremely loud and gives away your position with a plume of smoke, and doesn't even hit as hard as the already-established corp of soldiers you have that can scythe through infantry lines with a wall of fire, or smash a wall and every single bone in front and behind with a single attack?
@@lozm4835 LoK time period is supposed to be like our 1920’s. If everything else is as advanced, then it should be safe to assume guns would be too. Sure, maybe the reliance on bending would’ve set it back a bit in progress, but I doubt much. Realistically, once a nonbender discovers technology that gives them coveted “firepower”, they would probably become obsessed with developing it. It’s human nature-a desire for power and self-preservation.
But this raises another interesting theoretical-perhaps an Avatar and/or the Order of the White Lotus somehow conspired to suppress this discovery, knowing its implications, and that could [at least in part] explain the lack of guns seen in the world of the series? 🤔
@@brentgarner993 We actually see how LoK's time period differs dramatically from our own's technological development, both blowing past us and lagging behind. They have access to mechanisation that blows past what we were capable of in the 1920's, but all their electricity is generated by people manually lightningbending, which suggests that they haven't yet invented the electrical generator, despite that being considerably more efficient in terms of generating power over a long period of time.
A human desire for power and self preservation might drive somebody to invent a primitive cannon, yes, but they'd also likely die pretty quickly if they took it to an actual fight given the fact that they'd probably miss and then be a sitting duck for several minutes as they replace the gunpowder, reload the projectile, pack this all in place, and replace the fuse, which they need to remain still for due to the complexity of the process. If they're not intentionally picking off a single lone bender (assuming they even manage to hit) then they'll be a sitting duck. By comparison, training to be good at archery gives you a similar rate of fire as a skilled bender, allows you to remain hidden to avoid counterattacks and is extremely precise. You don't match a bender in power (hence why we don't see archers as primary military), but you do have a niche most benders aren't well equipped to fight against.
@@lozm4835 meh. I’m not convinced.
@@brentgarner993 why should guns also be just as advanced? They were too easy to beat with bending, especially early models
Love this video, a lot of good points made, though I do have an issue with one, on the statement of the US Army still using swords into the 1900s. The reason for this is far more cultural than practical, swords after (and even during really) the 1800s were rarely used, but in previous centuries it had been made a custom that swords were a symbol of officers. So, yes officers of many European/American armies carried swords at their hip into battle, or even pointed/waved them around to look intimidating or inspiring, but by the 1880s pretty much any soldier in his right mind would prefer his rifle, and an officer would sooner sheath that sword and draw a revolver. Still, as I said before, other points made in this are pretty good! Definitely fitting for the ATLA setting.
Thanks for the context! Yeah, I figured they weren't use practically at that point, but it was still interesting to me that they were still issued at all up until 1918.
@@BabyLionTurtle sometimes a weapon gains heavy symbolism in some interesting ways. Another example outside of swords in character design is giving spears to quick, efficient, no-nonsense types. Or, the revolver for your cowboy gunslinger heroes. In a way its the same as using badges/hats/flags to show soldiers reflecting their nations in popular media. Or all the earth kingdom warriors wearing green, for example.
@@Haduuna_Wrur It wasn't "made a custom", officers were equipped with swords such that they could more easily defend against spear or bayonet attacks-- which became unnecessary with the improvement of firearms, and was finally rendered obsolete by the tight trenches of WW1.
Melee fighting still happened even in WW1, but the trenches were tight enough that daggers, hatchets, and other super-close-quarters weaponry was utilized instead.
Plus, waving the sword around left officers vulnerable to sniper fire.
@@williamchristy9463 Officers in ancient days were of course also equipped with swords, this is true, but it has grounds back then far more in practicality than tradition like in the 1800s to the world wars. In medieval warfare, an officer was rarely at the front and thus could afford to have a shiny expensive sword, that would not at all compete with spears, the king of all melee weapons. But, because of this status as a wealthy weapon, someone with a sword could be easily identified as an officer. (or sometimes a mercenary cuz they don't play by the rules)
In the days of early firearms there was still some practicality to it, an officer could be distinguished on a battlefield by his sword in some cases, or alternatively he could make gestures and signals with his sword while aiming and firing his pistol in the other hand. Swords entering the 1900s were purely symbolic, aside from folks like Jack Churchill. On average, as you mentioned, swords didn't compete with firearms and more compact trench knives/axes/clubs.
Still, to claim a sword would be an officers sword was there with the purpose of fending off spears would be incorrect, spears have far more reach, power, and speed to them, and were in the hands of the common soldier for a reason. If an officer came up against a spearman without any of his own troops nearby, he was doing something very wrong.
@@Haduuna_Wrur Which is precisely why they were used for the deflection of stray spears or bayonets in the worst case scenario. They still had *some* practical purpse. An officer was never supposed to get into a fight, but if they had to, it was deemed fit that they had a more defensive weapon capable of more flexibility in defense. Note, I'm not saying he could offend against the spear-- the reach advantage makes that impossible, especially against pike, but the sword is capable of knocking aside a thrust, even against a committed attacker, if caught nearer to the hilt.
And it could do this without encumbering the pistol hand if need be.
I'd also point out that even in the medieval era, swords were typically sidearms, and the soldiers who carried them would wield something else like a pollaxe.
Btw. if anyone is wondering which problem early guns were solving in the real world: Effective ranged (light) infantry (aka archers with a high rate of fire who actually hit things) was extremely expensive and hard to replace due to the excessive training times required to master a bow, both in terms of skill and strength.
Only heavy cavalry was even more expensive, because you had to breed and feed the horse on top, plus heavy armour. Polearm infantry however was comparatively cheap.
So the goal was to develop a type of ranged infantry which was easy and quick to train. And they did - the Crossbowmen. However, they were later replaced by the Arquebusier due to being even easier to train and having more penetration power. The Musketeer with bayonets finally combined the ranged infantry and the pikemen in one unit.
you're missing a bit: crossbows were more effective at killing throughout the entire time muskets were used and they _knew_ it the big reason that guns caught on is because they tended to shock people and scare the hell outta horses. there was also a big indoctrination aspect to it: handing some teenage totally-not-a-kid a crossbow and telling them they're a soldier now had a lot less impact than handing them a gun, guns made them feel *special*
heck, for a good bit of that period _slings_ were more effective at killing than muskets but again basically zero psychological impact on foe _or_ friend so they were terrible for drumming up an army.
@@evernewb2073
No, they actually tested the potential of a musket ball to punch through steel plates. It is generally more likely to cause fatal injuries.
@@Alias_Anybody yep! but they couldn't aim for shit to the point where you couldn't even reliably aim in the general direction of a large group of people no matter how skilled you were (looooots of shots going high or low) and fired a bit more than half as often as a high-draw crankbow so the end result was that they just plain didn't connect nearly as often if the crossbowmen were any good at all, and crossbows are nearly as quick to pick up as guns and far cheaper to train with.
likewise with the slings I mentioned the reason that they were so silly effective at killing people was that you could have every soldier in the army armed with one and good enough at using it to get a projectile into the general location of a target group and at the end of the day even a clump of dirt hitting a helmet has a real chance of doing real damage let alone a rock hitting something that wasn't covered so ammunition was _quite literally_ everywhere allowing the entire army to take part in that section of ranged combat every time.
@@evernewb2073
That was actually also debunked. On 50 meters, an experienced marksman could have reasonably hit a door sized target with around 80% accuracy. That was a modern test with something from around 1700 I think.
They were about as accurate as many modern handguns. However, in formation and with the stress of a battle, with sometimes low quality powder, guns or bullets, pre 19th century fire arms were usually used exclusively in volleys, at least if you had field battles. Intimidation was a big factor, and you couldn't risk your own troops panicking, therefore you had to start firering as early as possible.
Napoleon tested it back in the day too, his troops had 60% hits on 75m and 40% on 150m, but those were ideal conditions while firering on a broad target (like, the whole formation), and not every hit even took out the target. They basically determined that the primary way to increase damage was a higher fire rate.
18th century muskets actually had a higher fire rate than crossbows btw. Also, they took a look at the wounds, arrows and bolts are less lethal if they don't hit vital organs. Musket bullets punch such massive holes you'll often just bleed out regardless. Oh, and Musketeers don't need more training than Crossbowmen either, and the focus was, as mentioned, often on fire rate more than accuracy.
When bro said hand cannon I thought of a deagle
this is some of the best analysis of how and why the industrial revolution happened that ive ever heard. you should be proud, this was really nuanced and very well researched. youve earned a sub.
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words :D
@@BabyLionTurtle :)
The convenience of bending should have also slowed down the earth kingdoms weapons as well. Mainly they should be mostly using stone weapons still and not metal. Since an earth bender can probably mass produce such weapons from any earth by just stomping. No finding a big enough rocks, no hours of bashing said rocks together to make a knife, just stomp and 5 plus stone knives and a dozen arrow head jump out of the ground.
the problem there is you have to ask "who are the earth Kingdoms most often using their weapons against?" the answer would be their own people, rebels and other earth kingdoms, who all would have had earth benders who could easily break or otherwise render useless weapons made of earth and stone.
Metal weapons, which could not be bended by your enemies, would be substantially more feasible and thereby desirable for the earth kingdoms. While they could not be easily mass produced when comapred to earthen weapons, they would have been leagues more effective. Even against external foes, fire benders would be able to blast apart earthen weapons while water benders could cut them apart.
@@captainslender12 fair points kinda forgot about those factors. don't want to try and swing you war club only to have it swing right back at you with a new spike.
Not all the population of the earth kingdom is a bender, even their king isn't one. They still need metal based weapons to arm the non bender part of the army.
The use of metal bending can be an effective countermeasure and a major obstacle in developing firearms during the time of Korra. Sure you can use platinum or other pure metals to make guns, but it's very expensive to produce large amounts for armies, but then again that doesn't stop Kuvira from building an army of mechas and one giant mecha.
the best gun would probobly be a sniper
because if you are in the metalbenders line of sight, ur guns gonna become useless when they bend a firing pin or damage any internals. Mabye you can get a shot in before but the chances are still stacked against you
a sniper whole point is to kill someone from really fucking far away, so that solves that problem, it also fires a bullet really really fucking fast, so they cant exactly bend the bullet
Eh not really? I mean bullets can go 2x the speed of sound far faster for any human to react in close distance or even medium distances, it would be outwards of 3km for a metal bender to affectively counter a bullet, even then a gattiling gun could put more bullets down range then a metal bender could reasonably react to.
@@meh8817 Unless your the Avatar. I can see a Metal Bending Earth Avatar just going all Magneto on them. The added Air Bending means they can sense the bullet the precise moment it leaves the barrel as well so they can counter snipers as well.
My theory is that since characters talks about honor a lot it's probably because they consider that using guns in a fight was dishonorable
That’s only Zuko
Bro the samurai were honorable and they were the first MFs to field muskets in war
The samurai used guns as soon as it was available to them by the Portuguese
With guns you could win more battles than honor
@@zhongxina9420matchlocks not muskets you’re talking about muskets in the 1700’s firearms you were talking about were matchlocks which were available to the samurai in the 1500’s
All team Avatar uses guns minus Sokka, because he isn't in Fornite.
Thank you for these videos :) im really enjoying this channel and ty for keeping us updated with the live action series and the movies too
Omg this so interesting to hear 👂 everything based on a gun in a canon game of ATLA 🙏 Iove it so much excited for the next video ❤️
I always wondered about the absence of guns in the series. Especially in LoK where you have airships, cars, radios, and movies as canon technologies.
Enclave here.
@@alreadyblack3341 sneedclave here
@@dankmemes8619 Why isn't your video feed working?
i would also assume that in a world where people can apparently react and dodge bursts of flames or lightning, you wouldn't want to shoot rocks or use fire at someone who could easily blow those back at you
The reason why the steam-engine did catch on in antiquity is large parts due to advancements in metallurgy that were required to really make it economically viable, as well as the availability of coal (due to the use of coal in the steel industry). A small toy steam engine for rich people to play with is one thing, but creating industrial steam engines would require huge amounts of high quality metal in very large work-pieces without impurities, which would be a major challenge for any pre-industrial society. Sure there were church-bells and cannons, but those things were expensive. More expensive than the little work an unoptimized steam-engine would do anyway.
There is also the fact that in antiquity there was not really a formalized scientific method either and figuring out a steam engine without thermodynamics kinda sucks.
I have something I would like to add.
It was not the self powered machine gun that allowed the move from swords to guns. But it is a related invention.
The invention of the cartridge bullet allowed the move to guns from swords. The cartridge bullet allows for that self powered machine gun to work reliably. No more having to carry separate powder, balls and wadding. It's now all contained in a small water resistant heat resistant, safe cartridge. So any Gun that used that standard sized bullet could fire it.
You are right in saying that any invention won't see enough use unless until there is a need.
It's not the brass cartridge that allowed the move from swords to guns, it's the centuries long process of trial and error on what doctrine and practice works. Guns were already a prevalent tool even in the 16th century with their origins in the 14th century. There's a big reason why pike and shot formations were so terrifying, especially with the Dutch interpretation, they would have effectively been able to contend even with bender armies
Cartridges(specifically in paper form) by themselves have been a product since the Harquebus to speed up reloading and were even used in gatling guns which was way past when guns took over swords, so one can get a sense that ATLA's producers just didn't use conventional guns because it's a TV show
@@tandemcharge5114 It's not centuries of doctrine experimentation that allowed the evolution of guns to swords, it's the evolution of polearms that meant that nobody ever used swords as primary battlefield weapons in the first place.
@@williamchristy9463 It's pretty obvious that I was referring to the whole host of melee weapons in the first place in context of the original comment.
And your comment isn't even accurate in the first place, there's several instances throughout history where swords were used as primary battlefield weapons in the face of even longer pikes, caveat being that they've been specialized in design
@@tandemcharge5114 I think the problem is that he said "american army used mostly swords until 1919" which is just not true? I dont know where he heard that from or how he came up with that
@@squakasog995 That's actually true on their part, it wasn't until the 1920s when the US Army took off cavalry swords as official combat weapons while other militaries took until the late 1930s to discard swords
I mean, the swamp benders was based on Americans, so they'd need to include guns
In Avatar, you've got representation for Tibet, Taiwan, Japan, China, Inuit natives, and.... Florida (naturally)
@@BabyLionTurtle YAS
@@BabyLionTurtle of course
@@BabyLionTurtle It does weirdly fit that the polar and swamp "water civilizations" are the only two based on North American cultures rather than Asian ones
There are also the sun warriors who are clearly based Aztec, Mayan, and Incan culture
For the ATLA it's true...but for TLOK, in the first book, in a group of non-benders, Looking for all ways to get one up on benders, led by one of the wealthiest and most industrial men of their time with access to factories,
Their idea of an idiotic mech suit not suitable for the time that is easily immobilized by any earth bender with an IQ of at least 4, was more in line than a gun with some modifications to be used at semi long range. Especially if they could use metal so refined that even metal benders couldn't bend.
It's more expensive, needs more training, is in small numbers compared to normal firearm, hard to store and distribute, not concealable at all, and uses same bola mechanism like the one the poachers used but bigger and mounted to a mech arm.
But hey its "cooler", so writers went with that.
It's all fun and games til Big Pop Sokka roll up on ya hood to spin the block.
the first machine guns came out in the late 1890s it was designed by Browning it was called the potato digger as it used a underbarrel mechanism that diverted the gas to operate the gun with a spring to bring the mechanism back up to be ready for the next round
I came here for avatar lore but instead I got a history lesson disguised as avatar lore. Thanks fellow nerd for this intriguing information 👍
The video's not-so-secret agenda 😅
Firebenders literally own firearms
Considering how insane metal benders get, I figure that changes everything too. Imagine trying to send a shelling only for it to gently set aside every time you fired it.
The use of Overanalyzing Avatar in the video is hilarious
everybody gangsta 'till the boomerang kid gets the glock
This video just blew my mind. What a clever analysis. Great job!!
here's my take on this:
the roman steam engine wasn't only useless because it didn't solve a problem, but because it was missing other core technologies that would make it useful, like the chains and sprockets or transmissions. the same happens with the firearm line; the firearm wasn't developed also because it was missing a very important core technology:
the cartridge.
without the cartridge, there is no way to develop a firearm to self load, or to load from a magazine. all the firearms in the avatar world are muzzle loaders, because there was no need to develop the firearm, and because of that the cartridge, which is the real important invention, couldn't have been invented.
No guys, they totally had guns, I promise!
early guns were not commonly used because of 1) the precision you needed to load and reload 2) expense of the ammo.
So it didn't matter. "Learn to use a boomerang/sword for free, or pay $100 a shot"
so I can see this in a world where a lot of weaponry was developed AROUND bending and not other weaker weaponry.
Counterpoint:
We were shown non-bending fire nation soldiers in the siege of the north, who had to use miniature catapults on mount back to fight. Guns would be a great way to increase the number of fire nation soldiers, as well as increase the non-benders' firepower. With just a little more development, they could have been made smaller and issued en masse, so a soldier could be sent out with several "pistols" to use and discard
Or like mount huge cannons on the ships and destroy the city from the horizon
The discussion about evolution not being linear as it’s depicted in media is not the type of question I expected in a Avatar lore video
In a world where close combat is usually fought with melee weapons and bending, it would be a waste using a gun. Bombing or artillery would work better cause long range and/or higher range.
A gun is just a piece of artillery that you hold in your hand. Imagine if you everyone in your army can kill your foes from at least 50 yards away. Instead of just a small portion of highly trained benders.
@@minutemansam1214 having benders in an infantry unit sounds useful, especially if they're an earth bender. Foxholes and trenches galore.
@@aweeeeh5255 even the Airbender can be good recon and fighter with their speed and water with healing capabilities. Ironically firebenders would be useless since whatever they do, modern guns do better.
@@sunshineskystar Except lighting. Although it shouldn't be too hard to defend against, your entire army would need 20 extra pounds of insulation in their armor. All that extra work just encase they have a lighting bender.
“A giant fucking mech and other modern inventions”
EXCUSE ME MODERN?
I appreciate editing Overanalyzing Avatar's Aang losing his staff bit
Meanwhile, we have a proud military and a missile program, and yet I wish I was a master firebender. Jumping off an airship and just flying around via firebending while showing my muscles and destroying the surrounding environment just sounds so epic. Even more epic to have a gigantic Gundam mobile suit to march into battle with. The drawing from the real life history and using the wisdom from that to the show is what all critics should do. Most people will write off things as bad writing when actually they just don’t understand it.
This is also a great insight to how just the smallest chance in history, would chance everything we know and take forgranted today.
And most of the time, it depends on the indeviduals.
Also note that the West was improve firearm technology while the East (or Asia) didn’t.
Like up until mid-19th century, East Asia still use flintlock and even matchlock firearms when the West already experimenting and eventually using guns that fire cartridge bullets.
Background music for this video was AMAZING and it was quite nice
It makes perfect sense. Weapons are typically made for armies as a way to mass arm people, but were in a world where people have magic element powers that can shoot stuff anyways, we have seen stuff like long range mortars used by the fire nation that work by them make a explosion in a barrel thing. Guns seem like a huge waste of time then. By not having guns it also reduces civilian violence. Because of bending you don't really see that many weapons in general because of that. I mean why pay money to arm a guy with a expensive gun when we can just get a guy who can fling boulders for free?
Also the firebending foot soldiers with the swords and spears were non benders, so itd be even more impractical to use a hand cannon. After Korra's era or probably after the events of the show, i could see equalists inventing more practical firearms.
The only way I'd see firearms in the Avatar world developing as they did with us in the real world if there was a small kingdom or small nation which possesses no benders what so ever. Meaning they have no choice but focus on developing firearms to their logical ends since they don't have any other means of defending themselves. But, I don't know how lore friendly that scenario would be to the Avatar universe.
I think guns might still be used in places like the earth kingdom where bending is relatively rare to defend walls and arm their foot soldiers against fire benders.
The issue is the industry and supply chains for gunpowder don't exist. Most of the towns we see are still isolated farmers. Ba Sing Se is the only place I would expect to have the means and the need, but their government definitely banned them.
“Ugly looking useless ball” except it was actually just a novelty, like someone building a science fair volcano that uses actual lava.
Not ugly
It's not just the tech doesn't progress on a linear path but also that technology progress is also reliant on other technologies. Basically you need the infrastructure to make the technology viable. Having a lot of steam engines means you need a LOT metal of good quality properly worked and shaped into the engine. Something that Roman and Ancient china didn't really have in abundance.
The other issue is pointed out in the video in that you need fuel for those engines. Since steam engines were used to help mine coal they help make their own fuel where as in Roman and China it would have likely been wood, so why have a bunch of lumberjacks cut down trees to burn for some engine when you can just directly do the work? Also in a lot of areas wood or other fuel had to be stockpiled to stay warm in winter so couldn't afford to use it on some fancy contraption.
If you look through history there are a lot of items like the steam engine and fire arms that were "invented" much earlier but never caught on because the infrastructure to make them viable wasn't there. Sure one can argue if only they had known the power for fire arms they would have put more focus in it but you also need the tools and machines to manufacture them as well as smelters to process steel so you don't went up with a bunch of exploding pipes in your troops hands. It's not one invention that brings us up to the industrial revolution, it's a dozen or more all coming together.
It always made sense to me, even as a kid, they have fireworks, blasting jelly always seemed like it could be used as a replacement for gun powder, and one of the Rough Rhinos even uses grenades.
Fun fact: the use of spear style warfare is still used by the Armed Forces today. FIX BAYONETS!
But not really, and no military has really drilled bayonet fighting for over a century.
Avatar the last gunbender
Imagine how funny it would’ve been if in one episode sokka whipped out a gun and shoots a dude
I'm pretty sure they just didn't add guns because its a nickelodeon show
_Came for the Magic Blick, stayed for the History._
Makes sense how their technology went to tasers instead of pistols, with martial arts and close range combat being the norm it was more worth it to invest in something that knocks out your opponent with a slap, long range combat is dominated by bending and large artillery
wat da heck? that was awesome
nickelodeon didnt want guns appearing on their channel, thats why they didnt show it.
Early firearms were inferior to every other battlefield weapon at basically everything except armor penetration. It wasn't until armor manufactures began mass producing plate armor capable of defeating things like bows and swords that the firearm was given any real time and attention.
In the avatar universe armor is surprisingly rare and isn't developed enough to require the kind of power only a firearms can produce to defeat it.
Also, didn’t the dark age prevent innovation (And the further use of the steam engine in the earlier days) from happening? After years of war and possibly disease, the idea would have been either forgotten or needed to be found again to be used
Not really. Not in the way you’re thinking at least. New information and ideas spread still, and the gun was introduced into Europe and used while it was still in the dark ages. It was probably only treated as a novelty, whos true power wasn’t especially comprehended until much later
innovation drives advancement, but nessesity leads to progress.
A prototype steam engine is a marvel,but if it doesn't provide enough output to replace current technology then people will be very hesitant to adopt it.
If your waterwheel can power your mill or sawmill, and here comes a guy with this stinky noisy clattering thing that requires a fire or even coal to function and it can barely muster enough oomph to power a millstone at 10% of your current waterwheel.
Would you buy it/adopt it?
Technology must prove itself superior to the current established standard before it is widely adopted.
The dark ages is a misnomer. Modern historians no longer use that phrase to refer to the middle ages.