i played the original version of this game called just "phoenotopia" when i was like 8 on my old as fucking grandpa's mac, and i followed the remake like 4 years before release on the official creators dev blog, and it just makes me so sad that this game isnt loved by more people, thank you for showing this game off to others, it means alot to me.
Phoenotopia: Awakening is the second best Metroidvania I've ever played and comes right after Hollow Knight. Try to change my mind. And yes, I played all the genre defining classics.
A Phoenotopia. It's too bad the game never really got a following when it was first released. It's pretty solid, the puzzles are good, the characters are funny, the background art is gorgeous. Hidden gem is definitely a great description for this one.
I actually love how deliberate and systemic the combat in this game is. As an example. You might've noticed that you can stop pretty much any projectile with a projectile of your own, but did you know that the best way to use bombs is to put them in front of you and hurl them towards enemies with your bat? Your every tool has something of the sort. Little things like that make you feel like a complete badass when you figure the system out and can apply it. And when it comes to exploration, the game's just jam-packed with small things. Every crevice have a story you can find somewhere in the game, most of the enemy types have some interaction with the world and/or a hidden mechanic. It's just incredible.
Oh man, I played this game years ago and I loved it. I had to decrease the difficulty to easy at a few of the bosses, but I especially loved the soundtrack and still listen to it at times. The Cosette theme and related music pieces give me some kinda Anodyne vibes.
Played the game on my Switch a few months ago and I completely loved it. It has a lot of charm. I also agree with you when it comes to its genre. And I honestly hope that we get more "Zelda II-likes" games in the future, as the style has *a* *lot* of potential that the original Zelda II wasn't able to reach.
i played the original flash game when i was young, and it instantly became a favorite! when i found out that awakening was coming out, i immediately pulled out my wallet. turns out it wasnt out yet but i waited so many years for it to hit that point so i was willing to wait a lot longer! when i played it i love it! i even started a second save! i struggle replaying games though... never remember to keep playing them. i do plan to try and go back though!
Same for me, I loved the flash game back in the day. So much that I even downloaded it, and used a decompiler to translate all of it into french hahaha! Yeah, I’m a tad crazy at times.
The real question is: at what point does the Batman: Arkham series _stop_ being a Metroidvania? That said, it is a little weird that the genre is named partially after a series that was only actually a Metroidvania for like 30% of the series.
I never finished the second Arkham game or even played the third, but Arkham City felt more open-world than metroidvania. The high amount of freedom kind of goes against the feeling of the style in my mind, strangely enough.
@@ingeniousclown Strongly agreed with this. Arkham Asylum was a Metroidvania, City/Knight really weren't, they were both more open-world and ironically more linear. Also, hot-take, Arkham Origins is actually the best of the four Arkham games.
3D games are not Metroidvanias, period. Those are 3D Zelda clones. Just because a game has you finding hidden items via tools does not mean it's Metroid. We clearly know what 2D Metroid and Castlevania look like and it's not the Arkham games.
To me is the combination of three key aspects: Exploration + Puzzles + Atmosphere (graphics, music, sfx, etc). The map is very well designed, and practically each and every zone is unique (from the happiness of the village, the mystery of the forest, to the creepiness of the abandoned town). Also, the game is HARD AF. Love it!
I played this back when it was a flash game and had a good time with it. Can't remember a ton of it, but I remember I found the characters enjoyable. Often amusing.
Reminds me of Order of Ecclesia with puzzles, and I'm really glad this review made me give it a go, because it's now among my favs. Despite the overworld, it *felt* more like a metroidvania than many metroidvanias, because of all the side locations you could explore, be mystified by (like the caves in the starting area). I had two ouroboros scrolls before even seeing quest giver, the game had already let me stray off the main path to some extent. Which felt neat, that there was so much to see wandering around.
If anyone is interested in a Zelda II like that is more like a proper metroidvania. Look up Chronicles of Teddy: Harmony of Exidus or Finding Teddy 2( they are the same game but got renamed at some point).
I played and completed the original flash game pretty much immediately after it got released. I actually replayed through it on Flashpoint before Christmas 2020. I had no idea that the game had been remade for a commercial Switch release, and had never googled anything about it since 2014, until it appeared in my Steam recommended list the day after it got it's PC release in early 2021. I don't even own any other platformers on Steam! Spooky...
as someone with 60+ hours in the game (and probably soon to be more since when i moved laptops i lost my save data), this is easily one of my favourite games. it’s up there with blaster master zero, another game that really doesn’t get the recognition i think it needs. also im currently writing a phoenotopia fic on ao3, shameless plug is shameless, but thats why a replay is double urgent.
I played this game and Iconoclasts in the same year and was pretty much overwhelmed by how well-put-together and immersive both games were. Iconoclasts definitely edges this one out in terms of boss fights, character writing, and crazy design ideas, but this one had some of the best world-building, overall vibes, and memorable moments that I've experienced in ANY game EVER. I agree that this game's puzzles/secrets were far superior to a lot of the ones that have appeared in Zelda games. As well, I found this game's level of challenge very satisfying. Especially as I got into the later parts of the game, I walked away from some of the boss fights and dungeons feeling like I needed a nap. I sank almost 70 hours on my playthrough and reached an 85% completion rating.
This is not a Metroid clone or Metroidvania. It's a Zelda 2 clone, plain and simple and the inspirations are obvious, even down to the dungeon designs and random encounters. Yes, that is its own little sub-genre as there's a number of Zelda-2 clones with side-scrolling action that doesn't quite reach the maze-like qualities of the Metroid. Other examples are Elliot Quest or Chronicles of Teddy.
Awesome review! Also, just a heads up, but the Adventure Time 3DS game "Hey Ice King! Why'd You Steal Our Garbage?!!" is essentially a Zelda II like. And a great one at that.
Hmmmm.... an adventure of link like game. NICE! I loved AOL and I wanted more of games like that. Yeah, it was my introduction to to the Zelda franchise.
It’s such a shame that this game flew under the radar. It’s absolutely my second favorite 2d game (before the eminent hollow knight, obviously) and it was made so well by such a small team. The worldbuilding is also really interesting.
This game is so underrated. I stumbled upon it by accident last month. Zelda 2 happens to be my nostalgic crush. It's the game I played as a toddler more than any other game. It's really sad to see it go unnoticed under the radar. I've been wanting a game like this for years to find out that this one has existed for years. I'd hope that it's a slow burner that will be a timeless classic in the future..
The label of genre I absolutely love that is just so ridiculously broad and convoluted, but I can't be bothered to care is Immersive Sim. Like so many different titles that are so different are under the Immersive Sim umbrella. From things like Ultima 7 or Underworld. To Crtl-Alt-Ego or more notable titles like Prey, Bioshock, and Dues Ex. Like, I feel like I know what an Immersive Sim is, but it feels so ridiculous with how you have to classify them sometimes. And which ones I consider immersive Sims that other don't and vice versa at times. But I don't personally if labels get more broad. I like that the genres themselves get pushed and stretched to their absolute limits on being attached to their genre by innovating and metamorphosizing into some crazy chimera of genres. It's awesome.
I hear puzzle, see some particular design clues, I stop looking at the video (I still listened! lol). I’ve not heard of this game, but it seems like something I’d enjoy.
I loved this game, it's sad that it seemingly was a flop according to the devs when it was released. I've been recommending it on Reddit since I first played it, I hope it has sold better by now, I want a sequel for this masterpiece. Also, I liked the combat, I don't understand why people hated it. I didn't like that the devs made the easier modes remove mechanics from the game, and how they then labeled the normal difficulty as the hardest difficulty, it's pretty misleading, I didn't realized at first I was playing an inferior version of the game by choosing the normal difficulty as I usually do because I'm not a super hardcore gamer.
I think peoples' dislike for the combat is 3 things: 1. the stubby melee range feels bad a lot of the time (though admittedly awesome in a couple of key fights) 2. the stamina system feels off, especially early in the game when you're just trying to understand the game; not a great first impression of the combat 3. the analogue aiming for ranged weapons is something that i almost never want to see in a side-scroller, personally. plus I was using a controller with a messed up deadzone which made it feel even WORSE
It took me 60 hours to finish this incredible piece of software and i didn't get bored for a second, the ending was disappointing though and i don't know if i'm not going to buy everything Cape Cosmic releases just to see Phoenotopia 2 one day.
I've been preaching the fuck out of phenotopia awakening since it realed. It's one of my favorite games I've ever played. Unfortunately, I've not actually gotten anybody to even give it a chance I've always described it as "Zelda 2 but if Zelda 2 was actually fuckin amazing"
I really stopped going for completionism around halfway through, the latter half of the game definitely seems like it would inflate the playtime a LOT with all the backtracking and puzzle solving.
It was an incredible game!!! but for me, it fails on the climax of the story. Through the whole game you get the sense of a building and culminating battle with monsters and humans, but it didnt happen
I find very important to distinguish linear Metroidvanias from nonlinear ones. That's because nonlinear metroidvanias like Hollow Knight (and kinda Ori 2) are my favorite genre. At some point, the intended path becomes non-existent and sometimes not every ability is even required (not including speedrun exploits). Please give me recommendations for more of these! I don't know at what point a linear metroidvania stops being a metroidvania, but I like them more when they have sequence breaks and/or multiple paths to the same exact location. Otherwise the exploration feeling gets completely lost as I run into dead end after dead end. I'm playing Prime Remastered and it seems to fall into this linear category. So does Dread, but I think Fusion crosses a line that will disappoint anyone looking for a metroidvania
Holy hell, this got buried! I didnt get a notification, a slot in the feed or anything. I just got the idea to look manually. Good work, though it must be disheartening.
Genre definitions need to be honored, hard agree. Just look at what happened to roguelike. Listen, Risk of Rain 2 is a phenomenal game, but it is NOT a roguelike.
This is why I don't like genres in general. When I hear metroidvania I am not actually looking for a metroidvania, but for a Metroid. When I am looking for a soulslike, I am not looking for a soulslike, but for a Dark Souls. When I then try one of theese games, I like them less, because I expected the exact same thing, instead of looking at it without my own "genre-bias". I think I very rarely discover new games via actually looking for a specific genre, because in the end I won't find what I am actually looking for. Instead I find everything else.
Putting things into boxes makes it easier to find. Genres die and are born once they're able to explain what the players are actually looking for, it's in the same vein as of writing rules and writing (especially English).
VSauce had a good video about this ("Is cereal soup?"). Basically we put things boxes because it helps find similar things. Sometimes you look at the wide definition (and then cereal is a kind of soup), but sometimes you want a specific thing i.e. a soup soup, even without defining it, you know what that means. Dark Souls might have Metroidvania aspects (hardly, really. Metroidvanias are more about abilities opening areas), but sometimes you want a "Metroidvania Metroidvania", you know... something like Metroid or Castlevania...
Honestly when i think of my favourite metroidvanias......i always like the vania ones more than the metroid ones, leveling, weapon drops, secret techniques, transfromations, bestiaries...stuff like that just tickles my fancy infinitely more than any metroid inspired game
The game to me has a lot of decent and even very very good things. But there are 2 detrimental thing that just made me ugh… the main weapon, the bat, is just awful. The more i play the less i want to use the bat. The second thing is the story. Its decent but the ending is ass. I think i enjoy this game more than ori 2 and crosscode (which are both good btw). But sometimes, the game frustrate me too much
Most of the classic Zelda games have Metroidvania aspects. Enter an area, see unreachable places/item, find the special item, reach said places with the item, fight the boss, use that special item in other places that are now open to you.
@@Soul-Burn not necessarily, because like ingeniousclown say the dungeons are so self-contained, it never gave me that Metroidvania feel, more like an open world JRPG feel.
Here's the thing. Keys are not enough. Metroidvanias rely on gear/abilities that player can use on a whim. Abilities are player-controlled and have uses in both combat and explorations. Keys activate in preset places (doors) and their only purpose is to overcome a preset obstacle.
That's why Zelda is tricky, because it has both. A lot of metroidvanias have both keys _and_ ability gates, and games like ALttP and Zelda 2 do too. The main difference is really the way dungeons are constructed, and (at least with the later Zelda titles) how narrow the use-case of many of the items are.
i played the original version of this game called just "phoenotopia" when i was like 8 on my old as fucking grandpa's mac, and i followed the remake like 4 years before release on the official creators dev blog, and it just makes me so sad that this game isnt loved by more people, thank you for showing this game off to others, it means alot to me.
Phoenotopia: Awakening is the second best Metroidvania I've ever played and comes right after Hollow Knight. Try to change my mind. And yes, I played all the genre defining classics.
Try La-Mulana. It has a similar focus on puzzles and deliberate somewhat clunky combat.
I think phoenotopia is better than hollow knight but most people have never heard of phoenotopia
I actually totally agree with you. 2nd to HK. It’s a masterpiece.
A Phoenotopia. It's too bad the game never really got a following when it was first released. It's pretty solid, the puzzles are good, the characters are funny, the background art is gorgeous.
Hidden gem is definitely a great description for this one.
I actually love how deliberate and systemic the combat in this game is.
As an example. You might've noticed that you can stop pretty much any projectile with a projectile of your own, but did you know that the best way to use bombs is to put them in front of you and hurl them towards enemies with your bat? Your every tool has something of the sort. Little things like that make you feel like a complete badass when you figure the system out and can apply it.
And when it comes to exploration, the game's just jam-packed with small things. Every crevice have a story you can find somewhere in the game, most of the enemy types have some interaction with the world and/or a hidden mechanic. It's just incredible.
Oh man, I played this game years ago and I loved it. I had to decrease the difficulty to easy at a few of the bosses, but I especially loved the soundtrack and still listen to it at times. The Cosette theme and related music pieces give me some kinda Anodyne vibes.
More people need to play this game, I had a blast with it when it came out and it's a shame it didn't take off
Played the game on my Switch a few months ago and I completely loved it. It has a lot of charm.
I also agree with you when it comes to its genre. And I honestly hope that we get more "Zelda II-likes" games in the future, as the style has *a* *lot* of potential that the original Zelda II wasn't able to reach.
Glad you're still making video game analysis videos, that's what I like best about your channel
i played the original flash game when i was young, and it instantly became a favorite! when i found out that awakening was coming out, i immediately pulled out my wallet. turns out it wasnt out yet but i waited so many years for it to hit that point so i was willing to wait a lot longer! when i played it i love it! i even started a second save! i struggle replaying games though... never remember to keep playing them. i do plan to try and go back though!
Same for me, I loved the flash game back in the day. So much that I even downloaded it, and used a decompiler to translate all of it into french hahaha! Yeah, I’m a tad crazy at times.
The real question is: at what point does the Batman: Arkham series _stop_ being a Metroidvania? That said, it is a little weird that the genre is named partially after a series that was only actually a Metroidvania for like 30% of the series.
I never finished the second Arkham game or even played the third, but Arkham City felt more open-world than metroidvania. The high amount of freedom kind of goes against the feeling of the style in my mind, strangely enough.
@@ingeniousclown Strongly agreed with this. Arkham Asylum was a Metroidvania, City/Knight really weren't, they were both more open-world and ironically more linear. Also, hot-take, Arkham Origins is actually the best of the four Arkham games.
3D games are not Metroidvanias, period. Those are 3D Zelda clones. Just because a game has you finding hidden items via tools does not mean it's Metroid. We clearly know what 2D Metroid and Castlevania look like and it's not the Arkham games.
Elliot Quest evokes Zelda ii as well.
To me is the combination of three key aspects: Exploration + Puzzles + Atmosphere (graphics, music, sfx, etc). The map is very well designed, and practically each and every zone is unique (from the happiness of the village, the mystery of the forest, to the creepiness of the abandoned town). Also, the game is HARD AF. Love it!
Love this game! Need a part two!
wow you awakened a memory.
I played this years ago in my browser. such a lovely game.
I remember the music was incredible.
many hours well spent.
This is not a browser game. It's a full standalone remake.
I played this back when it was a flash game and had a good time with it. Can't remember a ton of it, but I remember I found the characters enjoyable. Often amusing.
Reminds me of Order of Ecclesia with puzzles, and I'm really glad this review made me give it a go, because it's now among my favs.
Despite the overworld, it *felt* more like a metroidvania than many metroidvanias, because of all the side locations you could explore, be mystified by (like the caves in the starting area). I had two ouroboros scrolls before even seeing quest giver, the game had already let me stray off the main path to some extent. Which felt neat, that there was so much to see wandering around.
I love this game so much. To me, it feels like a metroidvania. I have over 150 hrs on this game. Charming as all get out.
If anyone is interested in a Zelda II like that is more like a proper metroidvania. Look up Chronicles of Teddy: Harmony of Exidus or Finding Teddy 2( they are the same game but got renamed at some point).
It's still in development, but another game with heavy Zelda 2 influence is Sheep Lad. Definitely worth following.
I played and completed the original flash game pretty much immediately after it got released. I actually replayed through it on Flashpoint before Christmas 2020. I had no idea that the game had been remade for a commercial Switch release, and had never googled anything about it since 2014, until it appeared in my Steam recommended list the day after it got it's PC release in early 2021. I don't even own any other platformers on Steam! Spooky...
as someone with 60+ hours in the game (and probably soon to be more since when i moved laptops i lost my save data), this is easily one of my favourite games. it’s up there with blaster master zero, another game that really doesn’t get the recognition i think it needs.
also im currently writing a phoenotopia fic on ao3, shameless plug is shameless, but thats why a replay is double urgent.
I've had my eyes on this game for years but not jumped on it for no real reason. Time to change that!
I played this game and Iconoclasts in the same year and was pretty much overwhelmed by how well-put-together and immersive both games were. Iconoclasts definitely edges this one out in terms of boss fights, character writing, and crazy design ideas, but this one had some of the best world-building, overall vibes, and memorable moments that I've experienced in ANY game EVER. I agree that this game's puzzles/secrets were far superior to a lot of the ones that have appeared in Zelda games. As well, I found this game's level of challenge very satisfying. Especially as I got into the later parts of the game, I walked away from some of the boss fights and dungeons feeling like I needed a nap.
I sank almost 70 hours on my playthrough and reached an 85% completion rating.
This is not a Metroid clone or Metroidvania. It's a Zelda 2 clone, plain and simple and the inspirations are obvious, even down to the dungeon designs and random encounters. Yes, that is its own little sub-genre as there's a number of Zelda-2 clones with side-scrolling action that doesn't quite reach the maze-like qualities of the Metroid. Other examples are Elliot Quest or Chronicles of Teddy.
Awesome review!
Also, just a heads up, but the Adventure Time 3DS game "Hey Ice King! Why'd You Steal Our Garbage?!!" is essentially a Zelda II like. And a great one at that.
Holy damn, never expected a youtuber i like to cover my favorite game, love phoenotopia, its a lovely game that i cant recommend enough
Hmmmm.... an adventure of link like game. NICE! I loved AOL and I wanted more of games like that. Yeah, it was my introduction to to the Zelda franchise.
Fantastic game! I highly recommend more people play it
It’s such a shame that this game flew under the radar. It’s absolutely my second favorite 2d game (before the eminent hollow knight, obviously) and it was made so well by such a small team. The worldbuilding is also really interesting.
You sound so much like super bunny hop and I love it. Good job man
i love phoenotopia awakening so much
Keep it up and were gonna start calling semi linear games with optional item pickups "metroid-lites"
How'd you get that great looking Zelda 2 footage? Looks like AI upscaling?
This game is so underrated. I stumbled upon it by accident last month. Zelda 2 happens to be my nostalgic crush. It's the game I played as a toddler more than any other game. It's really sad to see it go unnoticed under the radar. I've been wanting a game like this for years to find out that this one has existed for years. I'd hope that it's a slow burner that will be a timeless classic in the future..
The label of genre I absolutely love that is just so ridiculously broad and convoluted, but I can't be bothered to care is Immersive Sim. Like so many different titles that are so different are under the Immersive Sim umbrella. From things like Ultima 7 or Underworld. To Crtl-Alt-Ego or more notable titles like Prey, Bioshock, and Dues Ex. Like, I feel like I know what an Immersive Sim is, but it feels so ridiculous with how you have to classify them sometimes. And which ones I consider immersive Sims that other don't and vice versa at times.
But I don't personally if labels get more broad. I like that the genres themselves get pushed and stretched to their absolute limits on being attached to their genre by innovating and metamorphosizing into some crazy chimera of genres. It's awesome.
2:21 is where the review starts
Thanks bro
Hello! Would you mind streaming 'Bunker 21'? I'm interested in seeing your strategies.
I've always wanted to see a zeldoidvania
Pretty Nifty Video! Even though I'm not a Metroidvania guy, it was still intriguing! :)
I hear puzzle, see some particular design clues, I stop looking at the video (I still listened! lol). I’ve not heard of this game, but it seems like something I’d enjoy.
Can you make a list of your favorite Metroidvanias?
Metroids, hollow knight: yes/ dead cells, harmony of despair: no
Such an underrated game its so charming to me
Another game like Zelda 2 is the Summon NIght: Swordcraft story series. One of my favourite GBA games.
I loved this game, it's sad that it seemingly was a flop according to the devs when it was released. I've been recommending it on Reddit since I first played it, I hope it has sold better by now, I want a sequel for this masterpiece.
Also, I liked the combat, I don't understand why people hated it. I didn't like that the devs made the easier modes remove mechanics from the game, and how they then labeled the normal difficulty as the hardest difficulty, it's pretty misleading, I didn't realized at first I was playing an inferior version of the game by choosing the normal difficulty as I usually do because I'm not a super hardcore gamer.
I think peoples' dislike for the combat is 3 things:
1. the stubby melee range feels bad a lot of the time (though admittedly awesome in a couple of key fights)
2. the stamina system feels off, especially early in the game when you're just trying to understand the game; not a great first impression of the combat
3. the analogue aiming for ranged weapons is something that i almost never want to see in a side-scroller, personally. plus I was using a controller with a messed up deadzone which made it feel even WORSE
The lack of range on your attack single handedly ruined this game for me
I disagree. It's something to get used to. ❤🎉
It took me 60 hours to finish this incredible piece of software and i didn't get bored for a second, the ending was disappointing though and i don't know if i'm not going to buy everything Cape Cosmic releases just to see Phoenotopia 2 one day.
Talking about what is and is not a metroidvania, have you ever played Noita?
I've been preaching the fuck out of phenotopia awakening since it realed. It's one of my favorite games I've ever played. Unfortunately, I've not actually gotten anybody to even give it a chance
I've always described it as "Zelda 2 but if Zelda 2 was actually fuckin amazing"
dark souls doesnt get the metroidvania treatment just because of the maps tho, just think about healing at a station and enemies respawning again
Wait 26 hours? How? I think my first run was like 70 hours haha
I really stopped going for completionism around halfway through, the latter half of the game definitely seems like it would inflate the playtime a LOT with all the backtracking and puzzle solving.
@@ingeniousclownthe beauty of this game is there are so many hidden things and secrets. I never 100% games but I just kept going in phenotopia
Put in 90 hours just to make the secret boss fight.
Loved this game, slamed it last year and wildy suprised.
It was an incredible game!!! but for me, it fails on the climax of the story.
Through the whole game you get the sense of a building and culminating battle with monsters and humans, but it didnt happen
1:21 same
I just watched you hollow knight DLC ranking, it’s incomplete now……the community has made their own DLC….you must try it
I find very important to distinguish linear Metroidvanias from nonlinear ones. That's because nonlinear metroidvanias like Hollow Knight (and kinda Ori 2) are my favorite genre. At some point, the intended path becomes non-existent and sometimes not every ability is even required (not including speedrun exploits). Please give me recommendations for more of these!
I don't know at what point a linear metroidvania stops being a metroidvania, but I like them more when they have sequence breaks and/or multiple paths to the same exact location. Otherwise the exploration feeling gets completely lost as I run into dead end after dead end. I'm playing Prime Remastered and it seems to fall into this linear category. So does Dread, but I think Fusion crosses a line that will disappoint anyone looking for a metroidvania
Try GRIME it has some optional stuff and a bit of nonlinearity.
What the game's name in 00:26 ?
Ghost 1.0
@@bandoneondeneon great thanks
Man did I miss you 2Baldo4ZaWardo
Holy hell, this got buried! I didnt get a notification, a slot in the feed or anything. I just got the idea to look manually. Good work, though it must be disheartening.
That's just my life on TH-cam unfortunately. Glad you enjoyed it!
@@ingeniousclown I did, its great you make these despite everything!
Zelda 2 is the best Zelda game hands down!
Won’t be accepting Zelder puzzle slander
Genre definitions need to be honored, hard agree. Just look at what happened to roguelike. Listen, Risk of Rain 2 is a phenomenal game, but it is NOT a roguelike.
If you want puzzles that require you to get out a notebook and theorycraft give The Spiral Scouts a shot.
hi, i like your videos
This is why I don't like genres in general. When I hear metroidvania I am not actually looking for a metroidvania, but for a Metroid. When I am looking for a soulslike, I am not looking for a soulslike, but for a Dark Souls. When I then try one of theese games, I like them less, because I expected the exact same thing, instead of looking at it without my own "genre-bias".
I think I very rarely discover new games via actually looking for a specific genre, because in the end I won't find what I am actually looking for. Instead I find everything else.
Putting things into boxes makes it easier to find. Genres die and are born once they're able to explain what the players are actually looking for, it's in the same vein as of writing rules and writing (especially English).
VSauce had a good video about this ("Is cereal soup?"). Basically we put things boxes because it helps find similar things. Sometimes you look at the wide definition (and then cereal is a kind of soup), but sometimes you want a specific thing i.e. a soup soup, even without defining it, you know what that means.
Dark Souls might have Metroidvania aspects (hardly, really. Metroidvanias are more about abilities opening areas), but sometimes you want a "Metroidvania Metroidvania", you know... something like Metroid or Castlevania...
Honestly when i think of my favourite metroidvanias......i always like the vania ones more than the metroid ones, leveling, weapon drops, secret techniques, transfromations, bestiaries...stuff like that just tickles my fancy infinitely more than any metroid inspired game
The game to me has a lot of decent and even very very good things. But there are 2 detrimental thing that just made me ugh… the main weapon, the bat, is just awful. The more i play the less i want to use the bat. The second thing is the story. Its decent but the ending is ass. I think i enjoy this game more than ori 2 and crosscode (which are both good btw). But sometimes, the game frustrate me too much
I always thought Zelda 2 was a metroidvania, that moment when you go to a place but you need a key to advance
Most of the classic Zelda games have Metroidvania aspects. Enter an area, see unreachable places/item, find the special item, reach said places with the item, fight the boss, use that special item in other places that are now open to you.
@@Soul-Burn not necessarily, because like ingeniousclown say the dungeons are so self-contained, it never gave me that Metroidvania feel, more like an open world JRPG feel.
Here's the thing. Keys are not enough.
Metroidvanias rely on gear/abilities that player can use on a whim.
Abilities are player-controlled and have uses in both combat and explorations. Keys activate in preset places (doors) and their only purpose is to overcome a preset obstacle.
That's why Zelda is tricky, because it has both. A lot of metroidvanias have both keys _and_ ability gates, and games like ALttP and Zelda 2 do too. The main difference is really the way dungeons are constructed, and (at least with the later Zelda titles) how narrow the use-case of many of the items are.
can we please just use the term action exploration instead
you're gonna have to convince a lot of people