This is how the Eastern Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity should be taught but isn't: "Theos" God "God" in Trinitarian doctrine can mean various things at different times. "God" can refer to God the Father(1). "God" can refer to God the Son(2). "God" can refer to the Holy Spirit(3). "God" can refer to the Triune being(4). "God" can refer to the divine Ousia(5). An aprioristic ambiguity that stems from the term theos having five distinct meanings. No theology book will tell you this, it will just assume that a catechumen will comprehend this as being a mystery. Each of these definitions of God are distinct from the others. God the Father is not God the Son and is not God the Holy Spirit and is not God the Triune Being and is not God the divine ousia. You can't say God the Father is God the Holy Spirit or you wouldn't have three persons anymore. You also can't say God the Father is God the Triune being because that would be saying the Father is a three person being. You also can't say God the Father is the divine ousia because that confuses person and being. You can say God the Father is divine by nature, and you can say the Father has a divine nature, but you can't say God the Father is the divine nature. In Trinitarianism, God the Father is a who; God the divine nature is a what. And if you said God the Father is the divine nature, you would also be saying Jesus' divine nature is the Father. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, God the Triune being, and God the divine nature, are all different things and you cannot identify one as the other or equate one with the other. A further distinction is made concerning God the Son. God the Son according to the divine nature descended from the heavens into the womb of Mary and assumed human flesh, a second nature. God the Son, was manifested in the flesh. So God the Son has two natures, a divine nature, and a human nature. So God the Son does not have a God according to his divine nature; God the Son does have a God according to his human nature, God's God. And God's God is the same God as his God. But there is always only one person in view: God the Son aka Jesus aka Christ. So whenever you read the New Testament, and you see "Jesus" or "Christ" or "the Son" or "the Lord" or "the Word," and other appellations, the Bible is referring to God the Son according to Trinitarian doctrine. In Trinitarianism, he is "God the Son" whether you want to say he is God the Son according to the divine nature, or God the Son according to flesh. Either way, he is the same identity: God the Son, that is, "God." In other words, you can ALWAYS refer to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son, as "God." And you must do so otherwise you will end up denying that a person known as God the Son descended from heaven and assumed human flesh and that man of flesh was "God." This what the Eastern Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity would actually read if it were explained in layman's terms without theological vocabulary. The Divine Ousia is God The Father is God The Son is God The Holy Spirit is God The Triune Being is God The Divine Ousia is not the Father, not the Son, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being. The Father is not the Divine Ousia, not the Son, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being. The Son is not the Divine Ousia, not the Father, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being. The Holy Spirit is not the Divine Ousia, not the Father, not the Son, not the Triune Being. The Triune Being is not the Divine Ousia alone, not the hypostases of the Father, not the hypostases of the Son, not the hypostases of the Holy Spirit. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are co equal, co eternal, co substantial. The Father is the Monarch, the Son is the eternal generation of the Father, Holy Spirit indwells in the Father and the Son. And the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father Alone. When Jesus Incarnated he became 100% God and 100% man. The God-Man Jesus is One hypostases two ousias: divine AND human. When Jesus ate, slept, grew tired, cried, did not know the time or the hour. he was displaying his human nature nature. When Jesus healed, resurrected the dead, walked on water. turned water into wine, transfigured, he was displaying his God nature. When Jesus was crucified his human nature died. But his God nature cannot die.
I know this is off topic, Florian. But Mysterium Fasces, along with MRJ’s extensive material, is what brought me into Orthodoxy back in 2019. I cannot thank you enough, brother.
I would add that the subsistence of the hypostasis of the Son is His eternal generation (begotteness) of\within the Father, while the subsistence of the hypostasis of the Spirit is eternal procession, resting on the Son. The subsistence of the Father is as the eternal source of the eternal generation and procession. The relationship as we see it (in scripture) is paternal filial spiritual, hence the terms Father, Son, Spirit. When we use the term "Godhead" that is not a person or substance but an operation. The single and without beginning operation of the Trinity. EDIT: I say this because people gut hung up on the terms "Father, Son, Begotten".
@florian What is the difference between #4 & #5? (When I hear that God can be referred to as “the Triune Being” or “the Divine Ousia,” I hear the same thing.) Thank you in advance.
Can you elaborate on how Triune Being is not Divine ousia?The essence is what being is and since all Persons are one essence and are also one Being,logical conclusion is that Triune Being is the Divine being and therefore the Divine essence.
Hi David, you said about making a detailed version about explaining Trinity using biblical verses. I actually want to watch that for much better understanding.. Is it out there already?
Jay Dyer has a 3 hour video called "Is Jesus God? Is God a Trinity? Response to Critics" which has many biblical references. Also Jay's Gospel of John lectures show all of the Trinitarian verses in the Gospel
Though not being EO, EO approach to Trinity makes more sense in many ways. In your videos you adressing sometimes Calvinism (I am not) . There is a new growing tide now of opposite -open theism (I am not) making God almost fully or fully imanent with time. I believe EO has a very good framework via Essence-Energies and God’s self-limitation to adressing both aspects of God’s transcendence (above time) and immanence (meaningful interaction with creation). Would be great to see a video one day on that topic.
Bibliography of Scripture and Church hymns which illuminate the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which can only be understood fully by experience. This list is not remotely comprehensive: And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you (Exodus 3:13-14). In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3). Here the Trinity is referred to with "God" being the Father, Spirit being mentioned, and the Word (another name for Jesus, the Son of God) being mentioned by "God said." Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen (Matthew 28:19-20). And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:16-17). The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen (2 Corinthians 13:14). This is a model for many of our prayers in church. Almost all "exclamations" (the ending of prayers) by the priest are a doxology (hymn of praise) to the Holy Trinity, which is explicitly mentioned. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all (Ephesians 4:4-6). Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied (1 Peter 1:1-2). But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:4-7) t. pravoslavie.ru/81714.html
I have a question regarding the verse Isaiah 44:24 where God says he alone made everything . How do we reconcile that with the Son and Father being the creator , are they both speaking at the same time or can the Father say he’s alone but that kinda encompasses the Son and Spirit too . I know it’s a basic question but thank you 🙏
If you read Genesis you have God, Logos, and the Spirit, all there participating in creation. Hope that helps, I'm sure someone can give you a better answer.
Bibliography of Scripture and Church hymns which illuminate the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which can only be understood fully by experience. This list is not remotely comprehensive: And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you (Exodus 3:13-14). In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3). Here the Trinity is referred to with "God" being the Father, Spirit being mentioned, and the Word (another name for Jesus, the Son of God) being mentioned by "God said." Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen (Matthew 28:19-20). And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:16-17). The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen (2 Corinthians 13:14). This is a model for many of our prayers in church. Almost all "exclamations" (the ending of prayers) by the priest are a doxology (hymn of praise) to the Holy Trinity, which is explicitly mentioned. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all (Ephesians 4:4-6). Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied (1 Peter 1:1-2). But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:4-7)
Christ is begotten of the Father before all creation. They both exist in eternity together with the spirit. Creation was initiated by the Father, manifested by Christ (the pre-incarnate Logos), and made perfect (deified, indwelled by) the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit operates through the Father and the Son, but strictly speaking, the Holy Spirit proceeds solely from the Father. Proceeding and being begotten are two different modes which distinguish two distinct persons in God. It is still the one God in nature with a single divine mind. The will of the three persons is one, and Christ has a secondary human will after the incarnation which is deific. Christ is the example of deified human nature which we aspire to as men with fallen human nature who require resurrection after the fall. Our mind and will being lead by God, we are connected with the Father through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the communion with Christ. This three-mode relationship with God is necessary for our resurrection. The hierarchy of the Church is actually based on the monarchic structure of the Trinity in the Kingdom.
The trinity is reality Himself, hence the trinity is the core dogma which all the other dogma of the Church spirals out from. The revelation of Christ as God was when the Trinity manifested in time and space for the first time in history (Matt 3).
Do you have a plan to debate Jake Brancatella the Muslim Metaphysician? He argued monarchia solved the identity question but not tritheism problem. When answered the Father alone is Ase Jake then asked how could the Son and the Spirit co-equal in divinity if they lacked Ase? Beau Branson had a debate with Jake on whether Ase is necessary for consubstantiality. Maybe Jay Dyer would be interested in debating Jake as well
@DavidErhan Would you please answer a clarifying question, so Christ has two wills 1 human 1 divine, and The Triune God has only 1 Divine will? (Just trying to understand better)
Christ has two wills because He has 2 natures,being is directly connected with the nature and will comes from the nature.Trinity is 1 Being,because it's 1 God.Because it's 1 Being Trinity has 1 essence and from that 1 will.All 3 Persons share the Divine essence and from that they have by Their Divine essence one Divine will,but since Christ as 1 Person decided to assume human nature as well,He took on everything that comes with human nature and one of those is human will,but He didn't loose His Divine nature,so he has 2 wills from 2 natures.
If people who are watching this episode about the trinity and do not understand it, well they either robots who do not dream, or just do not like the idea of a God or do not know him, For people like that, this is confusing. Me holding and moving something physically, is way different from me thinking about it. It is not the same thing, physical energy and mental energy are spent and are 2 different things but they are done by my one mind. This is what I think when it comes to the Trinity in understanding it
It’s so confused with this doctrine of the Trinity. How can Jesus who has always existed have an origin? Or how can if he’s always existed have a generation? Or how can a Jesus who’s always existed be considered having derived anything from anyone else? It doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s like trying to tell me something that’s created. Always existed.
A question for the Orthodox if cause is said to be the only substancial difference then the other two, and you hold to the Holy order of Father son and spirit...How is the spirit considered not be with the Son second in order? Or is the spirit third in caues?
@johnnyd2383 So father prime cause, son second from the father begotten before all ages, spirit third somehow sent out from the father without the co-operation of his Logos(who is before the spirit in order)?
@@gtepp031387 We know that there is a difference between the Son and the Holy Spirit because the Son is begotten, while the Spirit comes forth the Father.
@@pop_kiril comes forth from the father without the co-operation of his spoken word/mental thought? The Son is second in order he is not only Son but Logos of the father. Spirit is third in order and he is sent forth from the father by his mental thought (Logos)
@@InfraGerusut This comment was made two years ago (it says) and I don't have time to listen again to an hour to remember exactly what you said to prompt it. Direct me to where you said it so I can see what was the context, but it seems to be a flippant, disrespectful thing to say on the subject of the Holy Trinity.
I ask If the Will and Divinity are specifically the Father's, how are the Son and Spirit equal to Him? Even if they share in the nature, that nature is defined by a specific Person, making Him superodinate to the others. I have to be misunderstanding something but I can't figure out what
hello david... i want to ask u important question about saint flavian the patriarch of Constantinople.... I couldnt know how he died?! whats the truth about it? some say he was beaten till death,,, some say nobody knows.... pleaaaaaaaaaase give me a evidence based answer!!! I need to know the history of chalcecon and this question is so important for me!
Good job. The only question I have: don't you think that it would be more correct to put "Word" (Logos) instead of "Son" in to the Ontologic Trinity? Because Word became flesh (Son) in the result of incarnation. Hipostasis of Jesus is the Word of God. When we say: the Trinity one in essence and undivided we talk about Ontologic Trinity. Jesus as the Son of God has two essences, Divine and human. So it's not "one in essence". The incarnation didn't change the Holy Trinity, and hipostasis of the Word wasn't changed. Logos is still Logos. I don't insist, but that is my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@franklinclinton_1988FC I don't mind that, I'm just quoting John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." He didn't say "In the beginning was the Son and the Son was with God, and the Son was God." I know that it's the same hypostasis/person, but for the missionary purpose, especially among Muslims, when we discuss the Trinitarian God, I personally use the term "Word". Because for the Muslim mind when they hear "God the Father gives birth to His Word" it's easier to understand and to agree than when they hear "God gives birth to the Son".
What do the orthodox do with the verse where Jesus said he would send the holy spirit? As that verse seems to deny the anti filioque clause perspective in the orthodox church?
@@prayunceasingly2029 I'm slightly out of touch about that particular verse but sending holy spirit is not the same as processing, and we know God's will is one in trinity, so Christ's divine will is one will of all three parts of Trinity I mean - Holy Spirit is eternally processing from the Father, not will be processed in the future, I'm not sure Christ saying he would send in the future makes sense in this context
One true and most high God = the father Yahweh. He has a true and litteral son = Jesus. The holy spirit = the spirit of God as he is holy and spirit. Would probably take 15 seconds to explain in a video. The truth is so simple a child would understand. 😊😊
This is not biblical. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three distinct people. Jesus is not His Spirit, but He is incarnate of the Spirit of His Father. He is also not His Father, as He speaks as if the Father is a different person.
THE TRINITY INVENTION REVISITED It's absolutely sure that no trinity exists because it's absolutely sure that NO THIRD DIVINE PERSON EXISTS. Jesus states "I am in the Father and the Father in me" and "I and the Father are one," Jesus would have never made those important statements if a third divine person existed! Then Jesus in the four gospels goes on CONFIRMING - in all possible different ways and in absolute consistent manner - that God is only made by Him and by the Father. Even UNEQUIVOCALLY "You will leave me ALONE. Yet, I am not ALONE because the FATHER is with me." Jesus does not even KNOW what a triune God is! (by the way, Jesus is God due to his tight union with the Father and because He is the KING of heaven. The almighty God is NOT the King because He is only a spirit, NOBODY is here). But the inventors of the trinity had a problem, they couldn't figure out who is the Holy Spirit mentioned in the gospels. They couldn't grasp that He simply is the "FATHER in the form of SPIRIT" ("God is a spirit", Jn. 4:23,24), who sometimes is called "Holy Spirit" by Jesus, sometimes "Holy Father." The Father in the form of a spirit comes from the Father (normal, absent) whom nobody ever SAW "the world has not known you". They thought the "Holy Spirit" were an ADDITIONAL divine person, but unfortunately (for them) they were unable to locate that divine person in the gospels. Panicking, what do we do now? At first the inventors resorted to the lame invention of the almighty (but dumb) "Lord who gives life" (not even a scent of him in the whole bible), then a "sly, philanthropic little hand" added three words, "ho hagios pneuma" (the Holy Spirit) to verse 14:26 of John's, after the word "The Comforter."
Nobody understands the Trinity because it is not Biblical. That is why Trinitarians have to use their imagination and eisegesis to explain away the obvious verses. If Jesus is THE God Almighty, than what is the Father?
@@avoider707 You can't have two or three Almighty's. Know why? Because they share might!!! You can only have one Almighty and that's the God and Father of Jesus Christ. See, how you have to admit that you have three gods? The Bible teaches none of that mess.
@@toomanymarys7355 trinity comes from the story of Nimrod and semiramis and tammuz. Then when constantine legalized christianity the church became infiltrated with pagan customs like sunday Sabbath trinity and crosses. Pagan gods like apollo became peter. Saints worship. Then the 4 councils like nyccea and ephesus. Then then athenasian creed. Then false preachers and tampering with the bible. 1 jn 5:7 is the coma johanneum. God is only one. Rom 3:30. Dei 4:2. 1 Tim 2:5. Now 95% of christianity is tricked into sun worship.
@@billcur3654 - no it comes from the Incarnate Logos born of Holy Mary. this is the Lord Jesus who gave this doctrine to His Church. don't believe the lies you have been fed
@@marcokite the trinity is a lie. I have 13 yrs research. When I say something it is true and not from me but God. Read enoch-satans war dogma against Christ. Read the true witness of revelation the rising of the son
No trinity exists, evidence is given by the fact that neither the Son, nor the alleged "third God person" know the future. God in a very distant time (before the world was born) knew the whole future. He then just COMMANDED his power "LET ALL THIS BE, BUT WITHOUT ME". This happened because the almighty God (A) always uses the MOST DIRECT AND EFFECTIVE WAY to get what He wants (this is the straightest way) and (B) wanted to AVOID being OBLIGED afterwards to PERSONALLY PERFORM all the God's actions set out in that well-determined future (actions and words). After his command, God became FREE of any other duties. Thus, the God's words in that future shall NOT be personally spoken by God. Since God is not here personally speaking, it means that those words are spoken by a spirit instead. He is the "Spirit of God" (the Holy Spirit). "God is a spirit" means that God is here with us ONLY in the form of a spirit. No one ever saw God in his "normal form": "the world has not known you". Who is the "Son" of God? You can guess it, see above "God became FREE of any other duties...".
Have you even read the bible? What nonsense are you speaking about, no one had ever seen God... Okay Christ wasn't God and et cetera, complete nonsense
This is how the Eastern Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity should be taught but isn't:
"Theos" God
"God" in Trinitarian doctrine can mean various things at different times. "God" can refer to God the Father(1). "God" can refer to God the Son(2). "God" can refer to the Holy Spirit(3). "God" can refer to the Triune being(4). "God" can refer to the divine Ousia(5). An aprioristic ambiguity that stems from the term theos having five distinct meanings. No theology book will tell you this, it will just assume that a catechumen will comprehend this as being a mystery.
Each of these definitions of God are distinct from the others.
God the Father is not God the Son and is not God the Holy Spirit and is not God the Triune Being and is not God the divine ousia. You can't say God the Father is God the Holy Spirit or you wouldn't have three persons anymore. You also can't say God the Father is God the Triune being because that would be saying the Father is a three person being. You also can't say God the Father is the divine ousia because that confuses person and being.
You can say God the Father is divine by nature, and you can say the Father has a divine nature, but you can't say God the Father is the divine nature. In Trinitarianism, God the Father is a who; God the divine nature is a what. And if you said God the Father is the divine nature, you would also be saying Jesus' divine nature is the Father. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, God the Triune being, and God the divine nature, are all different things and you cannot identify one as the other or equate one with the other.
A further distinction is made concerning God the Son. God the Son according to the divine nature descended from the heavens into the womb of Mary and assumed human flesh, a second nature. God the Son, was manifested in the flesh. So God the Son has two natures, a divine nature, and a human nature. So God the Son does not have a God according to his divine nature; God the Son does have a God according to his human nature, God's God. And God's God is the same God as his God. But there is always only one person in view: God the Son aka Jesus aka Christ. So whenever you read the New Testament, and you see "Jesus" or "Christ" or "the Son" or "the Lord" or "the Word," and other appellations, the Bible is referring to God the Son according to Trinitarian doctrine. In Trinitarianism, he is "God the Son" whether you want to say he is God the Son according to the divine nature, or God the Son according to flesh. Either way, he is the same identity: God the Son, that is, "God." In other words, you can ALWAYS refer to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son, as "God." And you must do so otherwise you will end up denying that a person known as God the Son descended from heaven and assumed human flesh and that man of flesh was "God."
This what the Eastern Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity would actually read if it were explained in layman's terms without theological vocabulary.
The Divine Ousia is God
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God
The Triune Being is God
The Divine Ousia is not the Father, not the Son, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being.
The Father is not the Divine Ousia, not the Son, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being.
The Son is not the Divine Ousia, not the Father, not the Holy Spirit, not the Triune Being.
The Holy Spirit is not the Divine Ousia, not the Father, not the Son, not the Triune Being.
The Triune Being is not the Divine Ousia alone, not the hypostases of the Father, not the hypostases of the Son, not the hypostases of the Holy Spirit.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit are co equal, co eternal, co substantial.
The Father is the Monarch, the Son is the eternal generation of the Father, Holy Spirit indwells in the Father and the Son. And the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father Alone.
When Jesus Incarnated he became 100% God and 100% man. The God-Man
Jesus is One hypostases two ousias: divine AND human.
When Jesus ate, slept, grew tired, cried, did not know the time or the hour. he was displaying his human nature nature. When Jesus healed, resurrected the dead, walked on water. turned water into wine, transfigured, he was displaying his God nature.
When Jesus was crucified his human nature died. But his God nature cannot die.
I know this is off topic, Florian. But Mysterium Fasces, along with MRJ’s extensive material, is what brought me into Orthodoxy back in 2019. I cannot thank you enough, brother.
I would add that the subsistence of the hypostasis of the Son is His eternal generation (begotteness) of\within the Father, while the subsistence of the hypostasis of the Spirit is eternal procession, resting on the Son. The subsistence of the Father is as the eternal source of the eternal generation and procession. The relationship as we see it (in scripture) is paternal filial spiritual, hence the terms Father, Son, Spirit. When we use the term "Godhead" that is not a person or substance but an operation. The single and without beginning operation of the Trinity. EDIT: I say this because people gut hung up on the terms "Father, Son, Begotten".
@Florian So what you’re really saying is that you are a polytheist who worships five Gods! Great!! Got it. This dogma is an idol of men’s minds.
@florian
What is the difference between #4 & #5? (When I hear that God can be referred to as “the Triune Being” or “the Divine Ousia,” I hear the same thing.) Thank you in advance.
Can you elaborate on how Triune Being is not Divine ousia?The essence is what being is and since all Persons are one essence and are also one Being,logical conclusion is that Triune Being is the Divine being and therefore the Divine essence.
Perfect timing. Thank you David!
Hi David, you said about making a detailed version about explaining Trinity using biblical verses. I actually want to watch that for much better understanding.. Is it out there already?
Jay Dyer has a 3 hour video called "Is Jesus God? Is God a Trinity? Response to Critics" which has many biblical references. Also Jay's Gospel of John lectures show all of the Trinitarian verses in the Gospel
th-cam.com/play/PLG8ujnM0COm6TzQc8YwjQzYEizTOX4bkC.html
Though not being EO, EO approach to Trinity makes more sense in many ways.
In your videos you adressing sometimes Calvinism (I am not) . There is a new growing tide now of opposite -open theism (I am not) making God almost fully or fully imanent with time. I believe EO has a very good framework via Essence-Energies and God’s self-limitation to adressing both aspects of God’s transcendence (above time) and immanence (meaningful interaction with creation). Would be great to see a video one day on that topic.
This really helped me conecptualize the trinity in my mind, God bless you.
Thanks for explaining this. Quotes and references can disrupt the train of thought. Good job.
Really appreciate this video.
Bibliography of Scripture and Church hymns which illuminate the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which can only be understood fully by experience. This list is not remotely comprehensive:
And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you (Exodus 3:13-14).
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3).
Here the Trinity is referred to with "God" being the Father, Spirit being mentioned, and the Word (another name for Jesus, the Son of God) being mentioned by "God said."
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen (Matthew 28:19-20).
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:16-17).
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen (2 Corinthians 13:14).
This is a model for many of our prayers in church. Almost all "exclamations" (the ending of prayers) by the priest are a doxology (hymn of praise) to the Holy Trinity, which is explicitly mentioned.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied (1 Peter 1:1-2).
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:4-7)
t. pravoslavie.ru/81714.html
I have a question regarding the verse Isaiah 44:24 where God says he alone made everything . How do we reconcile that with the Son and Father being the creator , are they both speaking at the same time or can the Father say he’s alone but that kinda encompasses the Son and Spirit too . I know it’s a basic question but thank you 🙏
If you read Genesis you have God, Logos, and the Spirit, all there participating in creation. Hope that helps, I'm sure someone can give you a better answer.
all persons are speaking there
Bibliography of Scripture and Church hymns which illuminate the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, which can only be understood fully by experience. This list is not remotely comprehensive:
And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you (Exodus 3:13-14).
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3).
Here the Trinity is referred to with "God" being the Father, Spirit being mentioned, and the Word (another name for Jesus, the Son of God) being mentioned by "God said."
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen (Matthew 28:19-20).
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:16-17).
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen (2 Corinthians 13:14).
This is a model for many of our prayers in church. Almost all "exclamations" (the ending of prayers) by the priest are a doxology (hymn of praise) to the Holy Trinity, which is explicitly mentioned.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all (Ephesians 4:4-6).
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied (1 Peter 1:1-2).
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:4-7)
Christ is begotten of the Father before all creation. They both exist in eternity together with the spirit. Creation was initiated by the Father, manifested by Christ (the pre-incarnate Logos), and made perfect (deified, indwelled by) the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit operates through the Father and the Son, but strictly speaking, the Holy Spirit proceeds solely from the Father. Proceeding and being begotten are two different modes which distinguish two distinct persons in God. It is still the one God in nature with a single divine mind. The will of the three persons is one, and Christ has a secondary human will after the incarnation which is deific. Christ is the example of deified human nature which we aspire to as men with fallen human nature who require resurrection after the fall. Our mind and will being lead by God, we are connected with the Father through the grace of the Holy Spirit and the communion with Christ. This three-mode relationship with God is necessary for our resurrection. The hierarchy of the Church is actually based on the monarchic structure of the Trinity in the Kingdom.
The trinity is reality Himself, hence the trinity is the core dogma which all the other dogma of the Church spirals out from. The revelation of Christ as God was when the Trinity manifested in time and space for the first time in history (Matt 3).
Hey bro please i need ur presentation pawor point pls help me out?
Do you have a plan to debate Jake Brancatella the Muslim Metaphysician? He argued monarchia solved the identity question but not tritheism problem. When answered the Father alone is Ase Jake then asked how could the Son and the Spirit co-equal in divinity if they lacked Ase? Beau Branson had a debate with Jake on whether Ase is necessary for consubstantiality. Maybe Jay Dyer would be interested in debating Jake as well
excellent breakdown thank you!
@DavidErhan Would you please answer a clarifying question, so Christ has two wills 1 human 1 divine, and The Triune God has only 1 Divine will? (Just trying to understand better)
You are correct
@@margaretthompson8114 Thank God.
Christ has two wills because He has 2 natures,being is directly connected with the nature and will comes from the nature.Trinity is 1 Being,because it's 1 God.Because it's 1 Being Trinity has 1 essence and from that 1 will.All 3 Persons share the Divine essence and from that they have by Their Divine essence one Divine will,but since Christ as 1 Person decided to assume human nature as well,He took on everything that comes with human nature and one of those is human will,but He didn't loose His Divine nature,so he has 2 wills from 2 natures.
If people who are watching this episode about the trinity and do not understand it, well they either robots who do not dream, or just do not like the idea of a God or do not know him,
For people like that, this is confusing.
Me holding and moving something physically, is way different from me thinking about it. It is not the same thing, physical energy and mental energy are spent and are 2 different things but they are done by my one mind.
This is what I think when it comes to the Trinity in understanding it
great analogy!
It’s so confused with this doctrine of the Trinity. How can Jesus who has always existed have an origin? Or how can if he’s always existed have a generation? Or how can a Jesus who’s always existed be considered having derived anything from anyone else? It doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s like trying to tell me something that’s created. Always existed.
Can someone explain what contemplation is?
by the Holy Spirit In heart, mind and reason, not only by physical senses !
A question for the Orthodox if cause is said to be the only substancial difference then the other two, and you hold to the Holy order of Father son and spirit...How is the spirit considered not be with the Son second in order? Or is the spirit third in caues?
That is how the order is set in the Scriptures. Read (Matthew 28,19).
@johnnyd2383 So father prime cause, son second from the father begotten before all ages, spirit third somehow sent out from the father without the co-operation of his Logos(who is before the spirit in order)?
@@gtepp031387 We know that there is a difference between the Son and the Holy Spirit because the Son is begotten, while the Spirit comes forth the Father.
@@pop_kiril comes forth from the father without the co-operation of his spoken word/mental thought? The Son is second in order he is not only Son but Logos of the father. Spirit is third in order and he is sent forth from the father by his mental thought (Logos)
". . . and what not . . ."
Whats the problem with that
@@InfraGerusut What is a "what not"?
@@MyMacsam I dont see the problem with “what not”
@@InfraGerusut This comment was made two years ago (it says) and I don't have time to listen again to an hour to remember exactly what you said to prompt it. Direct me to where you said it so I can see what was the context, but it seems to be a flippant, disrespectful thing to say on the subject of the Holy Trinity.
@@MyMacsam oh well my apologies sir, I thought you were just disrespecting the video so I asked. I wasn’t trying to be disrespectful.
I ask
If the Will and Divinity are specifically the Father's, how are the Son and Spirit equal to Him? Even if they share in the nature, that nature is defined by a specific Person, making Him superodinate to the others.
I have to be misunderstanding something but I can't figure out what
do you still need an answer
@@pop_kiril I think I've got it by this point. Been doing a lot of reading and listening
@@RageMagikarp Alright brother
Thanks david
hello david... i want to ask u important question about saint flavian the patriarch of Constantinople.... I couldnt know how he died?! whats the truth about it? some say he was beaten till death,,, some say nobody knows.... pleaaaaaaaaaase give me a evidence based answer!!! I need to know the history of chalcecon and this question is so important for me!
Good job. The only question I have: don't you think that it would be more correct to put "Word" (Logos) instead of "Son" in to the Ontologic Trinity? Because Word became flesh (Son) in the result of incarnation. Hipostasis of Jesus is the Word of God. When we say: the Trinity one in essence and undivided we talk about Ontologic Trinity. Jesus as the Son of God has two essences, Divine and human. So it's not "one in essence". The incarnation didn't change the Holy Trinity, and hipostasis of the Word wasn't changed. Logos is still Logos.
I don't insist, but that is my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Word is the Son because of his relationship to the God. So God is the Father and the Word is the Son because of their relationship.
@@javierthompson78 I understand that. But still, "In the beginning was the Word, ..."
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"
The Word didnt become the Son via incarnation the Word was always the Son because hes begotten by the Father eternally.
@franklinclinton_1988FC I don't mind that, I'm just quoting John 1:1
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
He didn't say "In the beginning was the Son and the Son was with God, and the Son was God."
I know that it's the same hypostasis/person, but for the missionary purpose, especially among Muslims, when we discuss the Trinitarian God, I personally use the term "Word". Because for the Muslim mind when they hear "God the Father gives birth to His Word" it's easier to understand and to agree than when they hear "God gives birth to the Son".
BERNADETTE ROBERTS: NOW AVAILABLE - RECORDED TALKS
Very good👍
❤ from Brasil
What do the orthodox do with the verse where Jesus said he would send the holy spirit? As that verse seems to deny the anti filioque clause perspective in the orthodox church?
Temporal manifestation not hypostatic origin, if 2 hypostasis make a hypostasis then it's internal partialism
@@shiningdiamond5046
Can you plesse explain what you mean by temporal manifestation as well as internal partialism? Thanks!
@@prayunceasingly2029 I'm slightly out of touch about that particular verse but sending holy spirit is not the same as processing, and we know God's will is one in trinity, so Christ's divine will is one will of all three parts of Trinity
I mean - Holy Spirit is eternally processing from the Father, not will be processed in the future, I'm not sure Christ saying he would send in the future makes sense in this context
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc
Good point.
@@prayunceasingly2029 Thank you very much
One true and most high God = the father Yahweh. He has a true and litteral son = Jesus. The holy spirit = the spirit of God as he is holy and spirit.
Would probably take 15 seconds to explain in a video.
The truth is so simple a child would understand.
😊😊
Hello
You refer to God as “he”
How many persons is “he”??
Does anyone refer to God as “they” or “them”??
God is a single HE
The Father
They’re all male, Knave
That’s right, to Christians at least, there is “one God the Father.”-1 Cor. 8:6 So simple.
Homoiousios is my doctrine
What is Homoiousios? Please explain?
@@hrd708 sub ordinasionisme ontology
@@homoiousios6503 i don't understand, can you elaborate more?
@@hrd708 i have Chanel in Indonesian language
@@homoiousios6503 do you have subtitle on your video?
I'm the 666th view. WTF
God is One and ALONE
His name is JESUS
This is not biblical.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."
The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three distinct people. Jesus is not His Spirit, but He is incarnate of the Spirit of His Father. He is also not His Father, as He speaks as if the Father is a different person.
THE TRINITY INVENTION REVISITED
It's absolutely sure that no trinity exists because it's absolutely sure that NO THIRD DIVINE PERSON EXISTS. Jesus states "I am in the Father and the Father in me" and "I and the Father are one," Jesus would have never made those important statements if a third divine person existed!
Then Jesus in the four gospels goes on CONFIRMING - in all possible different ways and in absolute consistent manner - that God is only made by Him and by the Father. Even UNEQUIVOCALLY "You will leave me ALONE. Yet, I am not ALONE because the FATHER is with me." Jesus does not even KNOW what a triune God is! (by the way, Jesus is God due to his tight union with the Father and because He is the KING of heaven. The almighty God is NOT the King because He is only a spirit, NOBODY is here).
But the inventors of the trinity had a problem, they couldn't figure out who is the Holy Spirit mentioned in the gospels. They couldn't grasp that He simply is the "FATHER in the form of SPIRIT" ("God is a spirit", Jn. 4:23,24), who sometimes is called "Holy Spirit" by Jesus, sometimes "Holy Father." The Father in the form of a spirit comes from the Father (normal, absent) whom nobody ever SAW "the world has not known you". They thought the "Holy Spirit" were an ADDITIONAL divine person, but unfortunately (for them) they were unable to locate that divine person in the gospels. Panicking, what do we do now?
At first the inventors resorted to the lame invention of the almighty (but dumb) "Lord who gives life" (not even a scent of him in the whole bible), then a "sly, philanthropic little hand" added three words, "ho hagios pneuma" (the Holy Spirit) to verse 14:26 of John's, after the word "The Comforter."
John 15:26, John 14:26, you're embarrassing
Nobody understands the Trinity because it is not Biblical. That is why Trinitarians have to use their imagination and eisegesis to explain away the obvious verses. If Jesus is THE God Almighty, than what is the Father?
also God almighty
@@avoider707 You can't have two or three Almighty's. Know why? Because they share might!!! You can only have one Almighty and that's the God and Father of Jesus Christ.
See, how you have to admit that you have three gods? The Bible teaches none of that mess.
The trinity comes from sun worship. Nimrod.
lol
@@toomanymarys7355 trinity comes from the story of Nimrod and semiramis and tammuz. Then when constantine legalized christianity the church became infiltrated with pagan customs like sunday Sabbath trinity and crosses. Pagan gods like apollo became peter. Saints worship. Then the 4 councils like nyccea and ephesus. Then then athenasian creed. Then false preachers and tampering with the bible. 1 jn 5:7 is the coma johanneum. God is only one. Rom 3:30. Dei 4:2. 1 Tim 2:5. Now 95% of christianity is tricked into sun worship.
no it comes from the Lord Jesus Christ who we Christians believe is the Eternal Son made man
@@billcur3654 - no it comes from the Incarnate Logos born of Holy Mary. this is the Lord Jesus who gave this doctrine to His Church. don't believe the lies you have been fed
@@marcokite the trinity is a lie. I have 13 yrs research. When I say something it is true and not from me but God. Read enoch-satans war dogma against Christ. Read the true witness of revelation the rising of the son
No trinity exists, evidence is given by the fact that neither the Son, nor the alleged "third God person" know the future.
God in a very distant time (before the world was born) knew the whole future. He then just COMMANDED his power "LET ALL THIS BE, BUT WITHOUT ME". This happened because the almighty God (A) always uses the MOST DIRECT AND EFFECTIVE WAY to get what He wants (this is the straightest way) and (B) wanted to AVOID being OBLIGED afterwards to PERSONALLY PERFORM all the God's actions set out in that well-determined future (actions and words). After his command, God became FREE of any other duties. Thus, the God's words in that future shall NOT be personally spoken by God. Since God is not here personally speaking, it means that those words are spoken by a spirit instead. He is the "Spirit of God" (the Holy Spirit). "God is a spirit" means that God is here with us ONLY in the form of a spirit. No one ever saw God in his "normal form": "the world has not known you". Who is the "Son" of God? You can guess it, see above "God became FREE of any other duties...".
Have you even read the bible? What nonsense are you speaking about, no one had ever seen God... Okay Christ wasn't God and et cetera, complete nonsense
Sweet, a schizo post!