Was Modernism Inevitable? | Jonathan Pageau

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Jonathan Pageau Q&A with Royal Northern College of Music: • Jonathan Pageau Q&A wi...
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[@gianni206]

“Modernism is now about those extreme images on the margins”
Really puts the phrase “you’re missing the bigger picture” in a new perspective

[@RNCM_Philosophy]

Thanks for posting our clip!!

[@chriswalth]

Good question, great answer. And thanks for pointing out Arvo Pärt!

[@RodrigoMera]

The margins at the center... that's all about Modern world, and nowadays American culture.

[@keithjohnsonYT]

I’m still struggling with The Flintstones, “gay old time.”
(With axiomatic presuppositions like language itself, I think it’s amazing we can even believe we understand each other…forget knowing we understand each other.)
They say, “all things shall pass” (except that one car), so what wisdom is there in a black hole being the center of our universe? …and, what IS in that black box in Mecca?!

[@bruhbruh9990]

Can someone give an example of the 13th century French music he referred to?

[@josephbremer6485]

Check out Guillame de Machaut 'Messe de Notre Dame'. So close to having this at my wedding... so close

[@brandoncooper2421]

I can't give you anything in the way of particular examples, but, being a student of music history, when Pageau mentions 13th century French music my mind immediately jumps to a composer named Guillaume de Machaut. Search this name in youtube and you will find many examples; Wikipedia isn't very helpful on this topic. Sadly, Medieval music/art is under great political scrutiny in academic circles these days, there is a strong will to rewrite history to downplay the influence of Christianity and favor secular influences.

[@brandoncooper2421]

@@ComposerJan-PeterdeJager the birth of polyphony...is this also the birth of secularism?

[@bruhbruh9990]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions!

[@bradspitt3896]

Look up early French Motets. The late medieval early Renaissance is what it sounds like he meant.

[@liseb.4485]

Not necessarily related to what you're saying here, but a conversation between you and Mary Harrington at some point would be great, I don't know if you've heard of her. It seems to me that people like you, Kingsnorth and her are very much of a same "family of minds".

[@HeloIV]

Who's the musician Jonathan mentions at the end?

[@stillnessinthewest]

Arvo Part. His music is astounding. Well worth checking out.

[@HeloIV]

@@stillnessinthewest thanks, I will

[@mysteriev7071]

Also, like Jonathan Pageue hinself Arvo Pärt is also an Orhodox Christian and his music is mainly inspired from that.
Check out: Arvo Pärt - Passio

[@liseb.4485]

Check out the « Magnificat » 👌

[@Cyrus_II]

Can someone explain to me what modernism is and how it's different from post modernism? In pageuvian language please

[@brandoncooper2421]

I have heard so many different definitions of modernism recently that it makes my head spin, but as for postmodernism- the concept originated in the field of literary criticism and reached peak influence in popular culture in the 1970's. Its main idea is that it is impossible to assert objective truth in the interpretation of reality- i.e. no one can say that a given thing (say, a given piece of art) has any definite meaning; any person's interpretation is just as valid as any other person's interpretation. So, according to postmodernism, when an artist duct tapes a banana to a wall and calls it art, this has to be regarded as just as meaningful as the Mona Lisa, or what have you. A postmodernist would call you ignorant if you objected to that statement. I dunno if this helps answer your question at all, I am still perplexed by the contemporary meaning of modernism myself.

[@brandoncooper2421]

@4:38 to 5:10 I think he really gets to the heart of modernism

[@m.h.744]

Was modernism inevitable?
• Yes, it was always there because it is a fractal pattern. What modernism is, has always been there in some way (as an excess). There are cycles. 13 century high music; rhythms; mathematical relation. Church architecture - saint’s, biblical images in the center; fringes, margins: crazy stuff, monsters, nude imagines (there was a place for them; the margin). Modernism took the margin (the extremes) an put it in the center.
• Late roman republic: they would make mosaics of crumbs; it looked like someone had eaten and left the crumbs on the table (very marginal, weird). The weird as decoration. What we call modern has happened before (Ovid’s Metamorphosis could be seen as a “modern” text - that is why Augustus hated it).
• It [modernism] exposes the pattern. In a normal traditional world people don’t ask these questions, they live their life. Like animals, they don’t ask themselves about the patterns in which they live. But when things go astray, when they go to extremes, idiosyncrasies one can kind of see what is going on. But because one can see it now, this can lead to making the world more embodied in the end. The future will be an integration of embodied art with an understand of what modernism proposed, to integrate it (in a way that does not call attention to the weirdness completely). Example: father Silouan Justiniano - icon painter; he integrates color field theory with expressionism. The best modern writers have deep understood of both pattern, abstraction and idiosyncrasy. Another example: “Beast” by Paul Kingsnorth.