UPDATE July 1st, 2024: Charlotte the stingray has passed away. This is devastating news and quite frankly appalling considering how she has been treated over the last 8 months. Will make an update in video form soon.
Just saw it on the BBC site this morning, absolutely disrespectful that they want to take time 'to mourn the loss,' with what little professional care they had her put through. Good luck on the video, TM!
I have a degree in aquarium maintenance, though I will say I specialize more with freshwater animals. But to answer your question, they absolutely should’ve separated her when they saw bite marks. Certain animals are incompatible in a contained setting like that, and any sign of aggression towards each other should result in a separation of the fish both for stress reasons and their literal health. It can be mating behavior yes…but ongoing attacks/marks and literal DIFFERENT species doing that to each other is not something to ignore.
Thank you for your input!! I imagined that the biting would be something to separate them over but I didn't want to state an assumption as fact since I didn't know for sure.
@TehMimi It's like having a cat and a dog in the same place, and the cat has marks. Your first thought shouldn't be kittypups, but instead, oh crap hes tryna kill her.
@@TehMimiwith any animal that can have aggressive behaviors you have to, I have about 10 fish tanks and over 50 pets (reptiles, amphibians, insects, a HOLE lot of fish, way too many different types of mammals) including cichlids (aggressive fish you have to monitor) guppies, fighting fish (ran a successful sorority (wouldn’t recommend)), tetras, cories, plecos so many different assortments, and a couple of assortments came to mind, my plecos got into a fight, so I separated them and put them into treatment to avoid bacterial infection, a certain type of tetra nipped at my beta, became turtle food (were being bred for turtle food) and hospital tanked my betta for bacterial infection. And besides that I’ve looked into owning fresh water sting rays and sharks (legal but won’t do unless I’m rich) and the worry signs of the sting ray that is being missed is so surprising for an aquarium
I hadn't watched any of the videos from the aquarium, but seeing them claim they saw the bite marks on Charlotte and assumed it was from mating, and not... biting as an attack? what? that's absolutely wild to watch, not removing Charlotte at the first sign of harm is such a poor choice. Poor Charlotte.
Did any professionals ever confirm that the ultrasound showed an actual pregnancy? Because if not, considering them mentioning overfeeding her and not knowing how to read an ultrasound. It kind of makes me wonder if they mistook her as pregnant and they just kept overfeeding her, which could explain why she has trouble swimming properly..
To be honest I’m not surprised that a member of staff was completing the ultrasound (but one member of staff should have known how to operate and read it properly) as many keepers of reptiles, livestock etc do this on a regular basis. It’s notoriously difficult depending on where you live to find a veterinarian who is willing or experienced to care for animals that are not "common" eg dogs, cats - pet birds can even be hard to find experienced vets for. Having said that - this is not a pet, this is an exhibit animal at an aquarium. They should have a qualified veterinarian/marine biologist on call to check out ALL of their animals.
@@Deadpool4president yeah, I saw some other people saying what showed up on the ultrasound could be tumors or cysts. Definitely seems like she's not being taken care of 😰
what's worse is she was actually sick and instead of getting her ACTUAL help they milked the fake pregnancy to make easy money while she suffered for months until she died....
it is completely impossible for sharks to cross breed with literally anything outside of the genus, and currently the ONLY crossbreeding EVER historically recorded between sharks happened (in 2012 actually) in Australia and the species was a hybrid of Australian BlackTips and Common BlackTip sharks (same genus of shark)
@@benjaminsmit781 sand tiger sharks have the lowest reproduction rate of any shark genus, so while not impossible sense they're just a different tiger shark (meaning by all technicalities that would be crossbreeding), due to their low reproductive rate. i dont think thats a high possibility
I dont think hybrids across different genera are even possible in general, not only with sharks. If they are, the parents would likely be from the same family, something a ray and shark do not share
@@ArrowsSpecter I got ONE result looking for it with my google robot overlord trained to feed me academic papers: - Natural hybridization between genera that diverged from each other approximately 60 million years ago (PMID: 25674696, DOI: 10.1086/679662 ) "A fern from the French Pyrenees-×Cystocarpium roskamianum-is a recently formed intergeneric hybrid between parental lineages that diverged from each other approximately 60 million years ago (mya; 95% highest posterior density: 40.2-76.2 mya). This is an extraordinarily deep hybridization event, roughly akin to an elephant hybridizing with a manatee or a human with a lemur. In the context of other reported deep hybrids, this finding suggests that populations of ferns, and other plants with abiotically mediated fertilization, may evolve reproductive incompatibilities more slowly, perhaps because they lack many of the premating isolation mechanisms that characterize most other groups of organisms." As stingrays and sharks are not ferns (isn't that a wild sentence to see), yeah probably not a thing to get stingshark babies.
With them talking about her having cancer/a reproductive disease, I think it's possible she's had this from the beginning. Since the team seemed new to reading ultrasounds, and ultrasounds are easy to misread, it could be that they were looking at cysts or other growths inside Charlotte, thinking it was pups.
That's what I'm wondering, if it's been the disease this entire time... I haven't read the word cancer anywhere (at the time of writing this). If that's the case however, I could easily see them mistaking tumors for babies. Another reason why veterinary experts should have been involved sooner...
Between ignoring signs of aggression and not knowing enough they actually considered it possible that the sharks were the father, these people should not be in charge of the care of houseplants, much less any fish or wildlife. "We started seeing bite marks on her and didn't think anything of it." Newbie home aquarium keepers show more care and concern for their pets than what these "scientists" and marine life "experts" showed for Charlotte.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens yeah, i have no fish but i have dogs, reptiles, equines and when she said they "thought nothing of it" about the shark bites, that to me was a HUGE red flag.
My fighting fish had the tiniest of holes in his tail fin once and I freaked out for days thinking I might have put something in the tank that could have snagged his fin. I still don't know what he snagged it on because I took care not to put anything with sharp edges in there. Heck, maybe he even did it to himself for some reason. I can't imagine seeing bite wounds on my fish and thinking that's normal.
@@Pipkiablo Yep, betta fish love to get hurt one time mine decided to shove himself i to a crevace i had to get hik unstuck and rearrage the rocks so he couldn't do that again and he was missing a few scales for a day or two I can't imagine not immediately separating animals when agression is shown, i get nervous letting my cats work out their differences! If i noticed my stingray was being bit I'd immediately seperate the two of them
regardless if she's actually pregnant or not its devastating how this poor stingray has to suffer due to the aquarium's blatant greed :( all that money she's raised for them and not even a fraction of it is going towards bettering her quality of life
It’s odd to me that sperm retention was never suggested. The females of several fish species, including rays, can retain sperm for a time after they mate and use it to become pregnant when they decide the time is right. Something like this happened in 2011 at the London aquarium when two stingrays gave birth after having no contact with a male for two years. The conclusion their keepers drew was that the animals had retained sperm from past encounters. True, eight years would be a very long time to retain the sperm, but it still seems way more likely to me than parthenogenesis or mating with a shark. The fact they never mentioned this as a possibility is odd to me, but I’m not a marine biologist.
That was my first thought as well when they said they had multiple options. The shark option was so outlandish when there's a known way that could happen
This is a thing that happens, yes. It can occur in snakes, too. I would theorize that eight years is a bit too long, as genetic material breaks down over time. With each year, the chances of pregnancy decreases, until it's pretty much zero. I can't imagine it'd last longer than 3, maybe 4 if we're generous, years, based on what little I know. 8 years of retention would be... ground breaking, in my opinion
@@thatradfailure5197 yeah, I agree that it’d be crazy. I just think it’s less crazy than mating with a shark, lol. I read about a rattle snake once that retained for 6 years and had fertile eggs, so maybe it’s possible? And/or maybe that’s why the pups didn’t make it to term? No idea. Just seemed like it should have been part of the conversation, but I suppose “stingray retains sperm for eight years” would get less publicity than “stingray immaculate conception” or “stingray mates with shark.” I agree it seems unlikely. It just think it seems the most likely of the three scenarios.
@@Grobohalic It's millions of times more likely than mating with a shark, yeah. Could've been an excellent teaching moment, as well. But judging by how Team Echo behaved, I don't think that's what they wanted to do. In fact, after watching the video through and reading some comments, I have my doubts that Charlotte was even pregnant in the first place
Checking Team ECCO's website today, there's a big message: "The Aquarium will be closed tomorrow, 6/1/24, to have consultation with Charlotte's Care Team." And they confirmed to the media today that she is not pregnant.
I'm a marine biologist. My first thought about this situation was how zoos/animal attractions have to keep "innovating" to draw people/money in. Okay, a lot of us have seen a stingray... BUT A STINGRAY PREGNANT? WITH SHARK BABIES? That bit was all marketing they fell victim to imo, but now they're also the scummy perpetrators. From the beginning they should have gotten a real ultrasound tech. Also a better enclosure would improve her quality of life a lot :-( her dorsal side does not look good at all poor thing.
i really hope the aquarium is investigated, this sounds like blatant abuse of an animal for internet clicks and attention. wishing the best for charlotte's wellbeing, pregnant or not, the poor thing needs PROPER care from experienced and professional veterinarians
unfortuantly she was sick during this whole time and because they simply refused to get her help in order to milk the fake pregnancy for easy money she died... a slow and most likely painful death
This reminds me so much of a current situation my boyfriend and I are going through with a "Horse Rescue" Run only by volunteers, over 70 horses that don't get proper time outside, fed enough, socialized, or stalls cleaned out enough and constant begging for donations only to go "save" another horse from the kill pens.
@@-xxMelissaxx-Didn't receive the notification for this, but thank you for your kind words. We've reported her to the Department of Agriculture and have gotten other volunteers' statements.
My cynical theory is that they’re frantically trying to obtain another female ray to swap into the tank after Charlotte dies. Then they’ll say oops she wasn’t pregnant she was sick but she’s miraculously recovered now.
Sadly I worry that it's probably always been a tumor, cyst, or other medical condition...and in an effort to attempt to avoid getting in trouble for neglecting to do anything to take care of the ray, they are trying to pass it off as something so unique they can pretend they don't have to have a timeline, until they can find a marine veterinary surgeon that is willing to sign an NDA and go along with their cover story.
@@-xxMelissaxx-That why they're trying to keep things covered up though - these people have no understanding of how to take care of these animals and they run an aquarium. It's not "not that deep" when it's negligence to this degree; they know they're in a lot of trouble if they get caught.
@@-xxMelissaxx- I might have been willing to consider that, IF a vet visit wasn't considerably cheaper than buying a whole ultrasound machine (that they don't even know how to properly interpret) ..... or if they hadn't repeatedly turned down known experts willing to help for free. Both scream intentional actions.
i think she got bitten by the sharks and had some reaction to it, and left untreated she's gotten worse. that is swelling , in my opinion. They have neglected her severely and she deserved much better
Don't they have mandated animal wellfare checks for aquariums in that state? Like, how are they so successful in stemming the flood of professional marine biologists and veterinarians voicing their concerns by just blocking them (or, as in that one case, calling the cops)? Can nobody call a supervising agency to get a wellness check or something? Well, that said, I just remembered how long SeaWorld managed to mistreat animals before any action was taken, so maybe I'm just too optimistic
I live in NC and I doubt they do. It’s been years since I’ve heard or seen anything about charlotte. I forgot about her until I saw this video pop up on my feed. No news stations have mentioned her at all for the last few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve done nothing.
Stories like this is why I’ll never support zoos or aquariums without an AZA certification. If a zoo or aquarium skips the process of accreditation, I don’t want to know what else they may be skipping
Biochemist here- you said parthenogenesis just fine! Edit: ok, not a marine biologist but I do know embryos can become metastatic- become cancerous. Alternatively, Charlotte was never pregnant (more likely) and it was cancer the entire time. Hence the ulcerating wound that wouldn't heal. Poor Charlotte!
Animal neglect is extremely prevalent across the globe, and it’s even bad in America, where you wouldn’t think it would be bad. Full developed country with completely overbooked shelters. Cats running rampant in the fucking streets. It’s insane. And it’s horrible.
@@ellenh3064 There are people who will glue objects (either with hot glue or super glue) in order to video themselves removing the objects in an attempt to look like they're helping the turtles. I forget which channel calls them out on it but it's a very good video if you can find it
Whats so sad is that with their theme of lying and denying, this may end in Charlotte's untimely end... They wont admit that anything is wrong, or to any lies...
Ive been to the Newport Aquarium in the U.S. which has actual sharkrays on display. The thing about sharkrays is that theyre just rays that have a body plan similar to sharks. They're not actually hybrids. Knowing that i got a bad feeling as soon as it was legitimately proposed that sharks might have gotten a ray pregnant
@@ArcadeOrca Same for me! I grew up about an hour-ish from Newport, and seeing Keiko as a kid was a pivotal moment in my life. I still tell my kids about him all the time, his life, the failed reintegration, his eventual death, and why some animals should _never_ be kept in captivity. Seeing him in that tank was spectacular, and so very sad
@@anonymouse9833 I felt happy for him because compared to where he came from that was a massive upgrade. And from research it wasn't a failed reintegration. He did find a pod and swam across that Atlantic. It was unfortunate because by the time he was wild and accepted in a pod he was already old in captivity standards. Most captive orcas pass before 25 unfortunately. Idk I'd say it overall was a reintegration win because he got to experience the real ocean again and was accepted into a group. He was likely to pass away regardless. So at least he had freedom for his last bit of life. Super cool you got to see him too! Such an amazing moment for me too!
Best not to support any zoo. Like I said in another reply, the AZA has been seen perpetrating the abuse, whether making threats to close zoos that are trying to do right by the animal(s) in question (like with happened with the Elephants) or giving known abusers too many slaps on the wrists, essentially letting them abuse more animals.
Ooooh we got zoology drama!!! Finally a topic I’m invested and knowledgeable about! So, my area of expertise is herpetology and pre vet, but I am also an aquarium hobbyist . it’s not normal, at all, to keep a community together when a certain fish is the target of aggression. The first action usually taken is isolation, which in social fish like rays should not be a permanent solution for any length of time longer than what’s absolutely necessary. Certain fish species can actually pass away from loneliness! There’s also the fact that Charlotte would need very specific parameters and medications to treat open sores, so adding other fish to the mix would make maintaining those water parameters trickier than need be. I am not familiar with the protocol for Ray pregnancies, but the people’s concern that it is no longer viable is on point, and all it would take is a simple ultrasound to determine whether the pups are still alive or not. If she’s deteriorating, my absolute first question would be “is she’s stressed? What’s the cause of that stress?” Stress is incredibly common in captive fish because of how delicate water ecosystems are, and it can lead to other diseases. Ecco was/ is behaving incredibly strange during all of this. These should be clear cut factual answers with not a whole lot of room for opinions. Can pregnancies take longer than expected? Yes. Are the water parameters alright? Yes, no, whatever. Are the embryos alive? Yes, no, or we don’t know, there hasn’t been an ultrasound yet. It’s not rocket science. It’s zoology..one of the most innately understandable sciences. You know, because we all have a lifetime experience being animals. We sort of have this pretty fortunate advantage of knowing what it’s like to be animals. This reeks of someone covering their butts for some sort of entirely preventable mistake, and because of the high profile of the pregnancy they would appear unprofessional and negligent if the truth came out. That last part is my personal opinion, but an educated one.
The Aquarium: There were bite marks on Charlotte Me: oh man maybe you should separate them that sounds like some serious aggression- The aquarium: sharks do this when they want to mate ❤❤ Me: Me: how are you in business
There are so many reasons why sharks may bite that aren't related to breeding, these people just come across as ignorant.. They may have been bullying the ray
Yeah how did they not immediately jump to "oh the bitey boys were bullying the kicky boy i should seperate them for the time being and keep an extra close eye on them to see if aby behavior changes" Im not sea guy but like... yk??? I mean id assume that for a ray getting bullied by a shark is more stressful than getting bullied by another ray
The sharks sensed she was ill. They are opportunistic feeders! If my pet fish had bite wounds from other fish it's usually some health problem going on. Especially because I don't keep species together that show aggression. Common sense is remove poor Charlotte as soon as those marks were seen 😢
Why do they not have a vet on staff? A trained professional? They have lots of animals living there and they don't even have a vet on staff...? Is that normal? I know that my local zoo has several vets on site daily that specialize in each type of animal that lives there. I can't imagine an aquarium being different. Isn't an aquarium just a wet zoo? Edit for clarification: My "local zoo" is the St. Louis Zoo. Their entire goal is conservation and education so that means they definitely have people trained in keeping these guys happy and healthy. (A very good friend of mine being one of them...) I honestly don't trust anybody housing all those animals that don't have at least one trained veterinarian on site or at the very least, on call.
Not gonna lie, it's pretty noticeable. Looks choppy with maybe a 0.5 second delay with audio? All clips look good and audio is super clear though! And the video is awesome regardless ❤
The aquarium needs to be investigated and charged. I don't care if they had good intentions in the beginning. They are being willfully negligent by refusing Charlotte care from trained professionals. The fact they haven't named the disease is suspect. The fact the mainstream media is only reporting on what the aquarium is saying rather than the unethical treatment of Charlotte disgusts me. So much for investigative journalism.
Parthenogenesis can actually be very common in some species! I once worked with a siberian eagle owl who produced another owl asexually (confirmed by DNA testing), though it's much better documented in chickens than owls.
@@Macachee Birds can also do this cool thing called "gynandromorphism". They have a "simpler" sex differentiation system (IIRC in birds it's ZZ and ZW?) that allows for them to have cells that give them entire organs or limbs that are a different sex, up to and including being divided neatly down the middle with one half getting male patterning and the other half getting the female one. In general birds can do some REALLY COOL things (like spontaneously get an ancient trait like dinosaur teeth showing back up because a "modernizing" gene didn't work, or getting some wing-like feathering on their legs, which is also atavistic-- an ancient trait popping back up).
The fact these people don't know that these animals can't crossbreed baffles me. They lack the possibility of doing such a thing. Sea life is amazing and deserves just as much care as other animals. I hope Charlotte is going to be okay and is seen by a team who actually have proper veterinarian care, instead of aquarium volunteers who want clout. Save the sea. Edit: This is why I do intense research on aquariums, because there's so many that don't care for their animals. And no, Sea World isn't a real aquarium. Never support Sea World.
I randomly looked up “how long can stingrays be pregnant” and it took me straight to something about Charlotte saying “three to four months When was Charlotte expected to give birth? According to Perlman, in a typical stingray pregnancy - wherein a female has been impregnated by a male -the expected period of gestation is three to four months.”
I haven't seen the ultrasound video before now. I am a biologist, and although I am no expert in stingray anatomy or reproduction, I know that stingray babies do not look like white habanero peppers on an ultrasound like the lumps in Charlotte ultrasound. Baby stingrays look like black kidney beans on screen until they are ready to pop when they look like little black stingrays on the ultrasound screen. And when the "zoo" did the ultrasound live stream Charlotte would have been ready to pop, by the "zoo"'s timeline. The bite marks left by the sharks looked more like a "get the hell away from me or I will eat you" bite mark rather than a mating bite mark because sharks don't mate with non-sharks. The sharks should have been moved to another tank after the first bite. I am also concerned about the *overfeeding* comment the "zoo" made because they could have overcorrected themself and are now underfeeding her. That could explain the muscle loss, bite wounds not healing, and swimming pattern changing, if not completely then partially. Charlotte and all of the other animals in that "zoo" need to be moved to a facility that knows what they are doing
I have a feeling this was all a publicity stunt and they rented a male ray from another aquarium to mate with her. EDIT: ...her pups (love that baby stingrays are called that) probably never existed from the very beginning...
With the recent pretend pregnancy/miscarriage OF page promotion, I can see why they'd be hesitant to come out and say it was never a real pregnancy. However, with a vulnerable animal still being involved, the public would be more supportive if they just admitted their mistake.
I love how they said “we saw bite marks on Charlotte and didn’t think anything of it” like excuse me? WTF??? Anyone who knows anything about animals should know that you separate animals that are being aggressive towards other animals from said other animals. Like bruh, once again, wtf
Stingrays can, rarely, make themselves pregnant in the same style as the "lesbian lizards", parthenogenesis for stingrays though can have higher complications compared to species who've had more generations to evolve/adapt around pathenogenisis
As someone who is a zoologist and a stingray caretaker in Oklahoma. Yes stingrays will wait to give birth till threat and stressing things are out of the area. If she was ever getting bitten by the sharks in the environment then she will not give birth. Having cuts can happen offton on the face when dealing with textured side walls but one on the back is more of a sign that something is attacking her. Normally the plan of action is a smaller quarantine pool by herself in the back area where she can get medication in the water. I have never seen someone keep them on display and with other animals for that matter wile getting treatment. But happy to see the injury is looking better now. It's hard for me to do a forsure claim what is going on or happening just off what I can find on their posts and videos. But can say I'm not liking what I'm seeing and overall hating the miss information being handed out so willingly.
And to think… if they weren’t so gung-ho on insisting it was possible for their sharks to breed with a stingray, no one would have investigated or critiqued Charlotte’s mistreatment.
I am a Biologist, and based on the details of this story I don't think anyone needs to be one to know what likely happened here. Most of it to me just seems like the same kind of issues we see covered on this channel. 1. Negligence & Ego: Charlotte always had this "reproductive issue" from the start, and these [fantastic professionals] tried to do everything in-house (ego, wanting the only key to the kingdom hence BLOCKING scientists) without a single marine vet on board to run actual tests to rule out that exact thing. There are certainly conditions that can appear like pregnancies. The countless scientists who wanted to help would have definitely checked her in several ways. This is honestly the most charitable explanation I could give, and it's still heinous. These people should not have animals. or 2. Clout & Abuse: Charlotte's whole "pregnancy" was never real, it was a hoax, and now the team gets a "convenient way out" of the lie ("oh no, actually she lost them and cannot get pregnant again!") that forces our empathy when people started catching onto the B.S. This would ALSO explain the staunch aggression towards scientists literally offering to help for FREE-because they'd immediately find out what was going on here. This would mean her injuries were just due to lack of care, which is evil. The way they constantly refused explanations that didn't fit the one they wanted says they were never interested in the truth, which makes me think this one is more likely. The initial post where they say "not to show off your knowledge to other users" was a bit of a red flag for me even not knowing about this story before this video lol. Science is discussion. No normal person, if they want the best for the animal AND aren't lying about the animal's status, would deny pro-bono expert assistance especially when said animal is actively deteriorating.
17:04 The team doing this LARP of the stingray typing out a social media post reminds me of an old down the rabbit hole video where he talked about this cat cafe and how the owner mismanaged it into the ground, she also did this same stunt on Facebook with her cats.
You pronounced it WAY better then team ECCO. The sharks should NOT have been in there with her when they discovered she was pregnant (or thought they did) or saw the bite. They should also absolutely know EXACTLY how much they're feeding her. There is SO much wrong here. The fact they never considered something like cancer using only an ultrasound (that no one who is trained to read them read) to confirm is very concerning. I live near a facility that does what ECCO claims to in a nearby state and they would definitely NOT do something like this if they had a weird "pregnancy" on their hands no matter how historic. They would document it and share it AFTER they had pups or sharks or shups (shark/pups) not least because a ton of kids go see these animals and so much can go wrong even if the pregnancy is completely normal.
this is a rough watch; i love aquariums but only those that are well managed. according to the AZA website it doesn't look like team ECCO is an accredited organization, which goes against their credibility in being able to take care of their animals. looks like this is just a poorly managed aquarium trying to exploit an animal
I can honestly tell you, just from my experience as an aquarium visitor-her tank is too small; the water is most likely not only the wrong temperature, but the wrong ph with it; the sharks should never have been allowed to be in the tank with her as they eat rays-depending on sz vs sz, clearly; and the shadiness of the employees/volunteers really tells me that the pups were a lie and the gap in updates was to give them a chance to treat the ignored ulcer and cover their butts.
who tf sees shark bites on a different species and thinks "omg they mated! hybrid babies!!! 🤗😍🥰" and not "omg we need to separate them because they can't cohabitate"? like wha?
Never heard of Charlotte before, poor girl. I hope she gets the help she needs ASAP or that this is just a massive misunderstanding that can be fixed. Glad to see her ulcer has healed a little bit though
This is why things like the AZA and being acredited through them MATTERS. Even if she was pregnant they waited away too long after her "due date" to be getting any help for her. It's just been a display of irresponsible keeping and honestly a publicity stunt. Backyard zoos and aquariums are the worst for breeding and providing to improper places/establishments, they don't follow the same guidelines for breeding and protecting genetic diversity in their offspring. The zoo/aquarium might look nice but without AZA there's no way to know what behind the scenes care looks like.
it's kinda odd how they didn't seperate charlotte from the sharks that were biting her too much. shame on the very people who were SUPPOSED to be taking care of her for not separating her!! 🙎🏻♀️
So i just had a baby and they only give you two ultrasounds so i was looking into those places that you can go get extra ultrasound pictures and i was reading that ultrasounds use heat and they can cause harm if not opperated by someone officially medically trained to do it safely.....so i hope they didnt cause harm to charlotte by "learning" how to use the ultrasound machine.
I'm not a specialist but I have my own theory about what was going on. This happened to my mom when she had a tumor in her ovary and it made her look pregnant, I'm worried that it may be a tumor or a growth of some sort. That's where I get very worried, loss of muscle mass and reproductive issues are signs of cancer. What I this is a cancerous tumor was growing in her reproductive system and mistaken for pregnancy and is slowly killing that innocent stingray. Or maybe she miscarried and has a non-cancerous infection from the pups not being removed due to reproductive issues. Either way, this stingray needs urgent care and this place needs to be investigated. On top of that, this is common sense, you do not put young male animals with older female animals, even if they can't produce offspring. The males will attempt to breed with the female and can lead to injuries or even death of the female, I a giant tank with many different animals, sure it's fine. But no, not in this case, I go to aquariums a lot and it is a bad idea to do that. I've asked and yes, in smaller takes even animals of the same species are separated and only breeding pairs are put together. I saw this with sturgeon. I could be wrong, but this sting ray needs help, and fast. I'm afraid the next update with be an obituary
I did not realize this aquarium was in my hometown like 10 minutes away from my childhood home. I wish i could say they're an exception, but this is what I expect from my hometown. Knowing they're based in Hendersonville makes sense. Doesn't excuse what happened to Charlotte though
Well thanks, your old neighbors here appreciate that. For anyone reading your comment, not all of us are trying to sketchy things and it's actually a lovely place.
With this timeline, I can almost perfectly pinpoint the moment that Team Ecco realized that what they (genuinely, ignorantly) thought was pup(s) was actually a tumor. They uploaded a few more videos and played along with the pregnancy narrative for fear of repercussions. And honestly, I get it. If they came out and said “ohh.. we just realized it’s actually that Charlotte’s had cancer for over a year now”, they would be sued for fraud out the wazoo, and likely jailed for animal abuse with the exposure that they are unqualified to be handling stingrays, and likely any other marine life. They definitely spent all that donation money on a new car, gifts/education for the kids, etc. They can’t afford all those lawsuits! The LAST thing they would want would be for actual scientists to come in and confirm what they already knew, because even asking the scientist to sign an NDA before their evaluation would look too suspicious. They chose to save face over Charlotte’s health and let her continue to suffer to save themselves from their own dumbass mistake.
One thing I find very questionable now that we know the truth is that if Team ECHO actually thought she was pregnant, then why wasn’t she induced when she passed her “due date”?
This is honestly upsetting, since I love sharks and stingrays to my knowledge are the cousins(?) of sharks. I still remember my anger learning about the Monterey Bay Aquarium keeping great white sharks in captivity then releasing the sharks once they began to show signs of poor health. Its great they're releasing them but its obvious that such a shark can't be kept in captivity because they aren't built for a contained space, they're built for the open ocean. I don't know if they still do this, but I haven't looked into it in years. Also, when it comes to sharks, I only know that hammerheads will hunt stingrays but I don't doubt that other species would do the same. Its generally a good idea to keep stingrays and sharks separate as a precaution. There's a reason why small sharks are seperated from Octopus as well due to a discovery many years ago where the aquarium staff found out that the disappearances of many small sharks in an exhibit was traced back to a SINGLE octopus in the same exhibit. There's a video of it and it was honestly hard to watch since, again, I love sharks
Are there no inspections for aquariums? Im very concerned for the treatment of their other animals given their treatment of this one shows they dont seem to involve vetinary care in their routine care of these animals, arent interested in FREE professional assistance when dealing with a niche situation and havent even done enough research or planning in the daily running of their aquarium to know how much they should or are feeding their animals. These people should not be allowed to care for exotic animals as they only seem to care about what use they can get out of them, be it money from displaying them in the aquarium or status and advertising by treating their animals as an experiment entirely unethically. Also im sick of these people associating their abuse with the scientific process, of course scientific DISCOVERY can be made in any horrific way, but this is not how scientists in this century conduct themselves, their not even applying the basic scientific method you learn in like 7th grade correctly.
Inspections are required for AZA accreditation. Sadly, this aquarium seems not to be. Shows the importance of *only* support AZA accredited ones, or else they can be messes like this (or the godawful "roadside zoos" full of clearly distressed animals in depressingly tiny cages). Good point about "for science" too - Mengele & Unit 731 may have made scientific discoveries, but only thru war crimes & ghastly abμse.
The “blobby stuff” that they point out looks like a cyst. I found a few clear images of her ultrasounds. Comparing to a healthy ray ultrasound I think shes had this the whole time. (Im not qualified i am still studying so any fully qualified biologists i would love to hear your thoughts!) I personally believe they knew its either this or they didn’t realize. Which would be fully their fault for not letting the proper people help. Honestly the research I’ve been doing on this has taught me a lot about rays! And I appreciate that learning experience but this also just makes me more concerned for her health just from what i have learned. I pray for this rays health.
I live in the area where the aquarium is and I have been following Charlotte’s case for months. I have been waiting for someone to make a video about this topic for a while now. Thank you for informing others about the reality of the situation ❤️
I'm a zoologist, specializing in wildlife husbandry, and I suspected that Charlotte was diseased from the very beginning (and I did comment on many of Team ECCO's posts to say so). Reproductive illness is common across the animal kingdom, including fish. Older female fish in particular are susceptible to cysts and tumors in the reproductive tract, which often cause localized swelling. I can understand why inexperienced people can see this occur and think "pregnancy!" but any experienced aquarists should know better, especially when no pups are ever born. Ultrasounds can be used to gain an understanding of what's happening where, and a biopsy is the next step towards identifying the cause (infection, cancer, etc). If a veterinarian had performed Charlotte's ultrasound, she could have been diagnosed months ago. Your comments on the aquarium's asinine statements on Charlotte's bite woulds were definitely reasonable. However, depending on the severity of the bites, seperation might not have been necessary. Some minor aggression is normal, especially if injuries are minimal. Then again, the aquarium never showed anybody the bite marks. As for intervention: the government does not care whatsoever that a stingray is being neglected or abused. Animal welfare legislation is practically non-existant in the US, especially for fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds. Even when laws do exist, enforcement is lax at best. Take a look at the Miami Seaquarium's infamous history if you want a really scandalous story. No spoilers, but the mayor ordered the Seaquarium evicted from the property, and the Seaquarium refused. Now they're going to court, and the City of Miami is preparing to forcibly take possession of the animals if necessary. And that's just the newest update to a 70-year-long story of neglect and cruelty.
I never really looked into this story after I heard about it. I just heard "Stingray pregnant without male interaction!" and assumed it was parthenogenesis. The details are so interesting now that I'm hearing more. Thank you for covering this. I'm going to get religious really quick here and just mention that the "Immaculate Conception" does not refer to Mary concieving Jesus without having relations with a man (that's just referred to as the incarnation). The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being concieved without the stain of Original sin. Her soul was immaculate (pure and unstained) from conception. It's a very, VERY, common misattribution of the term and I fault no one for not knowing the technicalities.
@@artbeeverythingif she was ever really pregnant, those pups are dead and have turned cancerous by now, hence why the wound on her back isn’t healing. I honestly believe she has a massive tumor that they’re pretending are her pups- if there were really any in there to begin with.
Thank you so much for shedding light on this. I keep supporting you most of all, for your love and advocacy of animals. It’s exactly what I try to do every day of my life but IRL lol I’m too too shy for TH-cam.
As a person who works on Main Street only 2 blocks away, all of us locals believe it was a hoax or something along those lines. She may have been pregnant at one point, but they have been so shady with her and the information that they post that its hard to believe they took care of her well before/during/after the pregnancy. I've never been to the aquarium, though my sister and her son have, and they say it's not well taken care of, and it's just sketchy, tbh. I don't trust that they take care of their animals, so thats why I've refused to go in. Before Charlotte was pregnant, she was in the touch tanks, which i have strong opinions about. All in all, it's any extremely sketchy situation and I hope Charlotte gets the care that she needs.
I cannot find the Hendersonville aquarium on the Association of Zoo’s and Aquariums website which means they are not accredited. Which makes me feel even worse about this situation. Supporting aquariums is not a bad thing in fact a ton of them do amazing things for conservation efforts. But zoos and aquariums like these that are not AZA accredited give zoos and aquariums a bad name :(
I wonder if she was truly pregnant at first, but due to the staff neglecting to separate her from the other animals like some cohabitating tanks/exhibits would probably do, she probably paused or 'miscarried' (I dunno if they can experience a miscarriage Im not a ray expert) due to the stress of being harassed by the sharks. And then she was unable to reabsorb the pup(s) and developed a disease because of no medical intervention because of staff neglect. The whole thing could've been avoided from the start if the team went to a specialist the moment they found something wrong or when Charlotte was 'overdue'
as someone who loves fish and hopes to have large aquariums someday, its definitely weird that they wont separate her from the sharks. she should NOT just be swimming around with wounds like it doesnt matter, especially with the guys who gave her the wounds.
I’ve seen one video from them about her but never remembered how to find them again. I cannot believe that they’re doing this but I thank you for covering this. I hope the agency covering welfare for aquatic life get involved
Charlotte reminds me of my favorite snake. Shes a rainbow boa in the local zoo that went through parthogenisis, she was the FIRST recorded incident of a rainbow boa in captivity going through parthogenisis, it was so exciting waiting for those little snakes The more and more ive heard of Charlotte's journey, the sadder and sadder i feel for her. Instead of something amazing like those boa babies, its just. Painful.
I always assumed they were joking about the Shark bit….but they still didn’t handle everything right. They neglected to act or update us and the pups didn’t make it. It revealed to us all that they have no clue what they were doing and err’d by not getting her to a true marine vet in time :(
i’ve had the opportunity to see stingrays in person many times (the big local pet hobby shop has a giant tank for them) and the fact they continue to obviously mistreat this beautiful creature just breaks my heart. don’t get an animal if you can’t take care of them, this is especially *vital* for educational facilities like zoos or aquariums. i’m so worried for their other animals too, charlotte could just be the more obvious case of neglect & abuse. they should have had an in-house or a call-in vet or marine biologist on charlotte the moment they noticed anything was wrong, not buy an ultrasound machine and teach themselves to read it. people go to *school* to learn how to properly read the readings from those machines, you can’t just buy one and read a manual and expect to be able to read the state of an animal. ultrasounds need second opinions of trained professionals, they need to understand the proper anatomy of the animal and what pregnancy actually looks like and how it affects their organs and body. i hate people and companies like this: those who think they know better than others, especially people trained in the actual science they are trying to justify neglect for. the outcry for charlotte does warm my heart because there is at least some people out there who care for animals, and hold people accountable that obviously don’t care about the beautiful creature they have in their care. i hope charlotte is taken from their care, because they obviously haven’t cared about her enough in the 8 years they say they’ve had her.
Charlotte needs to go into better care. They're not equipped to care for her and I'm curious to see their reptiles I know a lot about them and freshwater fish.
In some cases, dead babies still inside the mother will start to rot and kill the mother. Maybe the mass is something more dangerous, seeing as that Charlotte is losing weight/losing muscle mass
I'm not on tiktok, so was unaware of Charlotte's existence before today but i don't think she was ever pregnant. I don’t think they knew how to read an ultrasound and just interpreted whatever they saw as a pregnancy. I hope they consult the necessary experts to improve her treatment.
I am a behavioural marine scientist (specialise in keeping and the sleep of marine animals) and this was incredibly sketchy but also a small part of me was curious but my alarm bells went off the second shark was mentioned
UPDATE July 1st, 2024: Charlotte the stingray has passed away. This is devastating news and quite frankly appalling considering how she has been treated over the last 8 months. Will make an update in video form soon.
oh wow right as I clicked to watch the video 💀
Came here to share the news, glad you got to it first
Just saw it on the BBC site this morning, absolutely disrespectful that they want to take time 'to mourn the loss,' with what little professional care they had her put through. Good luck on the video, TM!
#JusticeForCharlotte
Oh noooooo :( they were so worried about her pregnancy they forgot about regular health issues. At least she's at peace now.
I have a degree in aquarium maintenance, though I will say I specialize more with freshwater animals. But to answer your question, they absolutely should’ve separated her when they saw bite marks. Certain animals are incompatible in a contained setting like that, and any sign of aggression towards each other should result in a separation of the fish both for stress reasons and their literal health. It can be mating behavior yes…but ongoing attacks/marks and literal DIFFERENT species doing that to each other is not something to ignore.
Thank you for your input!! I imagined that the biting would be something to separate them over but I didn't want to state an assumption as fact since I didn't know for sure.
@TehMimi It's like having a cat and a dog in the same place, and the cat has marks. Your first thought shouldn't be kittypups, but instead, oh crap hes tryna kill her.
@@TehMimiwith any animal that can have aggressive behaviors you have to, I have about 10 fish tanks and over 50 pets (reptiles, amphibians, insects, a HOLE lot of fish, way too many different types of mammals) including cichlids (aggressive fish you have to monitor) guppies, fighting fish (ran a successful sorority (wouldn’t recommend)), tetras, cories, plecos so many different assortments, and a couple of assortments came to mind, my plecos got into a fight, so I separated them and put them into treatment to avoid bacterial infection, a certain type of tetra nipped at my beta, became turtle food (were being bred for turtle food) and hospital tanked my betta for bacterial infection. And besides that I’ve looked into owning fresh water sting rays and sharks (legal but won’t do unless I’m rich) and the worry signs of the sting ray that is being missed is so surprising for an aquarium
I hadn't watched any of the videos from the aquarium, but seeing them claim they saw the bite marks on Charlotte and assumed it was from mating, and not... biting as an attack? what? that's absolutely wild to watch, not removing Charlotte at the first sign of harm is such a poor choice. Poor Charlotte.
Also: if the sharks attack an adult stingray why risk the pups being born in a tank where sharks are literrally attacking their mother?
Did any professionals ever confirm that the ultrasound showed an actual pregnancy?
Because if not, considering them mentioning overfeeding her and not knowing how to read an ultrasound. It kind of makes me wonder if they mistook her as pregnant and they just kept overfeeding her, which could explain why she has trouble swimming properly..
I accidentally deleted my own reply- sorry!
Until recently, it seems that the only ones doing the ultrasounds were aquarium staff.
To be honest I’m not surprised that a member of staff was completing the ultrasound (but one member of staff should have known how to operate and read it properly) as many keepers of reptiles, livestock etc do this on a regular basis. It’s notoriously difficult depending on where you live to find a veterinarian who is willing or experienced to care for animals that are not "common" eg dogs, cats - pet birds can even be hard to find experienced vets for.
Having said that - this is not a pet, this is an exhibit animal at an aquarium. They should have a qualified veterinarian/marine biologist on call to check out ALL of their animals.
My thought was tumor. Would explain the declining health
@@Deadpool4president yeah, I saw some other people saying what showed up on the ultrasound could be tumors or cysts. Definitely seems like she's not being taken care of 😰
what's worse is she was actually sick and instead of getting her ACTUAL help they milked the fake pregnancy to make easy money while she suffered for months until she died....
it is completely impossible for sharks to cross breed with literally anything outside of the genus, and currently the ONLY crossbreeding EVER historically recorded between sharks happened (in 2012 actually) in Australia and the species was a hybrid of Australian BlackTips and Common BlackTip sharks (same genus of shark)
I thought i heard something about a sand tiger shark and another shark breeding? Could be wrong tho
@@benjaminsmit781 sand tiger sharks have the lowest reproduction rate of any shark genus, so while not impossible sense they're just a different tiger shark (meaning by all technicalities that would be crossbreeding), due to their low reproductive rate.
i dont think thats a high possibility
That got my attention REAL fast. How the heck could they possibly believe that.
I dont think hybrids across different genera are even possible in general, not only with sharks. If they are, the parents would likely be from the same family, something a ray and shark do not share
@@ArrowsSpecter I got ONE result looking for it with my google robot overlord trained to feed me academic papers:
- Natural hybridization between genera that diverged from each other approximately 60 million years ago (PMID: 25674696, DOI: 10.1086/679662 )
"A fern from the French Pyrenees-×Cystocarpium roskamianum-is a recently formed intergeneric hybrid between parental lineages that diverged from each other approximately 60 million years ago (mya; 95% highest posterior density: 40.2-76.2 mya). This is an extraordinarily deep hybridization event, roughly akin to an elephant hybridizing with a manatee or a human with a lemur. In the context of other reported deep hybrids, this finding suggests that populations of ferns, and other plants with abiotically mediated fertilization, may evolve reproductive incompatibilities more slowly, perhaps because they lack many of the premating isolation mechanisms that characterize most other groups of organisms."
As stingrays and sharks are not ferns (isn't that a wild sentence to see), yeah probably not a thing to get stingshark babies.
With them talking about her having cancer/a reproductive disease, I think it's possible she's had this from the beginning. Since the team seemed new to reading ultrasounds, and ultrasounds are easy to misread, it could be that they were looking at cysts or other growths inside Charlotte, thinking it was pups.
That's what I'm wondering, if it's been the disease this entire time... I haven't read the word cancer anywhere (at the time of writing this). If that's the case however, I could easily see them mistaking tumors for babies. Another reason why veterinary experts should have been involved sooner...
Exactly
I thought a tumor pretty early into the video. Would explain the declining health
exactly this
Between ignoring signs of aggression and not knowing enough they actually considered it possible that the sharks were the father, these people should not be in charge of the care of houseplants, much less any fish or wildlife.
"We started seeing bite marks on her and didn't think anything of it." Newbie home aquarium keepers show more care and concern for their pets than what these "scientists" and marine life "experts" showed for Charlotte.
Totally agree
Ikr? Like they didn't think anything of freaking *shark bites* that thwy said "were happening", i.e. not just once. Heccn sheesh.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens yeah, i have no fish but i have dogs, reptiles, equines and when she said they "thought nothing of it" about the shark bites, that to me was a HUGE red flag.
My fighting fish had the tiniest of holes in his tail fin once and I freaked out for days thinking I might have put something in the tank that could have snagged his fin. I still don't know what he snagged it on because I took care not to put anything with sharp edges in there. Heck, maybe he even did it to himself for some reason. I can't imagine seeing bite wounds on my fish and thinking that's normal.
@@Pipkiablo
Yep, betta fish love to get hurt one time mine decided to shove himself i to a crevace i had to get hik unstuck and rearrage the rocks so he couldn't do that again and he was missing a few scales for a day or two
I can't imagine not immediately separating animals when agression is shown, i get nervous letting my cats work out their differences! If i noticed my stingray was being bit I'd immediately seperate the two of them
regardless if she's actually pregnant or not its devastating how this poor stingray has to suffer due to the aquarium's blatant greed :( all that money she's raised for them and not even a fraction of it is going towards bettering her quality of life
It is utterly despicable
Yes
It’s odd to me that sperm retention was never suggested. The females of several fish species, including rays, can retain sperm for a time after they mate and use it to become pregnant when they decide the time is right. Something like this happened in 2011 at the London aquarium when two stingrays gave birth after having no contact with a male for two years. The conclusion their keepers drew was that the animals had retained sperm from past encounters. True, eight years would be a very long time to retain the sperm, but it still seems way more likely to me than parthenogenesis or mating with a shark. The fact they never mentioned this as a possibility is odd to me, but I’m not a marine biologist.
That was my first thought as well when they said they had multiple options. The shark option was so outlandish when there's a known way that could happen
This is a thing that happens, yes. It can occur in snakes, too. I would theorize that eight years is a bit too long, as genetic material breaks down over time. With each year, the chances of pregnancy decreases, until it's pretty much zero. I can't imagine it'd last longer than 3, maybe 4 if we're generous, years, based on what little I know. 8 years of retention would be... ground breaking, in my opinion
@@thatradfailure5197 yeah, I agree that it’d be crazy. I just think it’s less crazy than mating with a shark, lol. I read about a rattle snake once that retained for 6 years and had fertile eggs, so maybe it’s possible? And/or maybe that’s why the pups didn’t make it to term? No idea. Just seemed like it should have been part of the conversation, but I suppose “stingray retains sperm for eight years” would get less publicity than “stingray immaculate conception” or “stingray mates with shark.” I agree it seems unlikely. It just think it seems the most likely of the three scenarios.
@@Grobohalic It's millions of times more likely than mating with a shark, yeah. Could've been an excellent teaching moment, as well. But judging by how Team Echo behaved, I don't think that's what they wanted to do. In fact, after watching the video through and reading some comments, I have my doubts that Charlotte was even pregnant in the first place
Parthenogenesis actually is not that crazy in the animal world tho. They discover recently that even CONDORS do it.
Checking Team ECCO's website today, there's a big message:
"The Aquarium will be closed tomorrow, 6/1/24, to have consultation with Charlotte's Care Team." And they confirmed to the media today that she is not pregnant.
Thank you for sharing that update. Hopefully proper care for Charlotte is in order soon.
Needs to be pinned or top comment
I'm a marine biologist. My first thought about this situation was how zoos/animal attractions have to keep "innovating" to draw people/money in. Okay, a lot of us have seen a stingray... BUT A STINGRAY PREGNANT? WITH SHARK BABIES? That bit was all marketing they fell victim to imo, but now they're also the scummy perpetrators. From the beginning they should have gotten a real ultrasound tech. Also a better enclosure would improve her quality of life a lot :-( her dorsal side does not look good at all poor thing.
Definitely a case of neglect. That enclosure is sketchy.
What is wrong with the enclosure? I've seen enclosures much more barren and the stingray inhabitants seem fine
@@Fidionfine ≠ thriving
@@Fidionthe enclosure is full of sharks
I’m no Marine Biologist, but I knew as soon as I heard ‘shark’ this sounded sketchy
@UTTP-142WOAH- CHILL OUT BRO YOU DIDNT HAVE TO USE THE HARD R LIKE THAT
Dawg... im black @UTTP-142
Report it dont reply to them@@Insert_something_here
@UTTP-142i know this is a bot but dude. What the hell.
Same, it makes no logical sense!
i really hope the aquarium is investigated, this sounds like blatant abuse of an animal for internet clicks and attention. wishing the best for charlotte's wellbeing, pregnant or not, the poor thing needs PROPER care from experienced and professional veterinarians
Yes there needs to be an animal welfare check done on that aquarium STAT
unfortuantly she was sick during this whole time and because they simply refused to get her help in order to milk the fake pregnancy for easy money she died... a slow and most likely painful death
This reminds me so much of a current situation my boyfriend and I are going through with a "Horse Rescue"
Run only by volunteers, over 70 horses that don't get proper time outside, fed enough, socialized, or stalls cleaned out enough and constant begging for donations only to go "save" another horse from the kill pens.
Hopefully you've reported them to a relevant animal welfare agency... that's so sad and frustrating
@@-xxMelissaxx-Didn't receive the notification for this, but thank you for your kind words. We've reported her to the Department of Agriculture and have gotten other volunteers' statements.
I just want to say that a lot of people probably underestimate how expensive it is to run animal rescues.
My cynical theory is that they’re frantically trying to obtain another female ray to swap into the tank after Charlotte dies. Then they’ll say oops she wasn’t pregnant she was sick but she’s miraculously recovered now.
hard to do that when everyone now knows she's dead
Sadly I worry that it's probably always been a tumor, cyst, or other medical condition...and in an effort to attempt to avoid getting in trouble for neglecting to do anything to take care of the ray, they are trying to pass it off as something so unique they can pretend they don't have to have a timeline, until they can find a marine veterinary surgeon that is willing to sign an NDA and go along with their cover story.
Tbh I don't think it's that deep. Don't think it was some master plan. I think they were just dumb and completely out of their depth the entire time.
@@-xxMelissaxx-That why they're trying to keep things covered up though - these people have no understanding of how to take care of these animals and they run an aquarium. It's not "not that deep" when it's negligence to this degree; they know they're in a lot of trouble if they get caught.
@@sourgreendolly7685 exactly
@@-xxMelissaxx- I might have been willing to consider that, IF a vet visit wasn't considerably cheaper than buying a whole ultrasound machine (that they don't even know how to properly interpret) ..... or if they hadn't repeatedly turned down known experts willing to help for free. Both scream intentional actions.
i think she got bitten by the sharks and had some reaction to it, and left untreated she's gotten worse. that is swelling , in my opinion. They have neglected her severely and she deserved much better
Yes, the wound looks infected!
Don't they have mandated animal wellfare checks for aquariums in that state? Like, how are they so successful in stemming the flood of professional marine biologists and veterinarians voicing their concerns by just blocking them (or, as in that one case, calling the cops)? Can nobody call a supervising agency to get a wellness check or something?
Well, that said, I just remembered how long SeaWorld managed to mistreat animals before any action was taken, so maybe I'm just too optimistic
I live in NC and I doubt they do. It’s been years since I’ve heard or seen anything about charlotte. I forgot about her until I saw this video pop up on my feed. No news stations have mentioned her at all for the last few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve done nothing.
I don’t believe that the Hendersonville aquarium is AZA accredited which means they most likely are not getting that thorough once a year inspection
I mean look at SeaWorld. You'd think if they had animal welfare checks there wouldn't be any dolphins in captivity 🤷♀️
-Clones self
-Pops out a mini copy of self(?)
-Refuses to elaborate
-Leaves
Stories like this is why I’ll never support zoos or aquariums without an AZA certification. If a zoo or aquarium skips the process of accreditation, I don’t want to know what else they may be skipping
Many abusive zoos with an AZA certificate exist, with the AZA even going along with the abuse in the case of Elephants.
Biochemist here- you said parthenogenesis just fine!
Edit: ok, not a marine biologist but I do know embryos can become metastatic- become cancerous. Alternatively, Charlotte was never pregnant (more likely) and it was cancer the entire time. Hence the ulcerating wound that wouldn't heal. Poor Charlotte!
sigh... FFS well, we went from abusing turtles in fake rescue vid to neglecting a stingray smh.🤦🏼♂
Animal neglect is extremely prevalent across the globe, and it’s even bad in America, where you wouldn’t think it would be bad. Full developed country with completely overbooked shelters. Cats running rampant in the fucking streets. It’s insane. And it’s horrible.
What what happened with turtles?
@@ellenh3064 There are people who will glue objects (either with hot glue or super glue) in order to video themselves removing the objects in an attempt to look like they're helping the turtles. I forget which channel calls them out on it but it's a very good video if you can find it
Not just turtles, I'm convinced at this point that no animal is safe from human depravity :(
@@ellenh3064 Some glue stuff to the turtle shells and do a fake rescue vides , like taking the stuff that got stuck to the shell "naturally"
Whats so sad is that with their theme of lying and denying, this may end in Charlotte's untimely end... They wont admit that anything is wrong, or to any lies...
I’d be surprised if they swap Charlotte out with a similar-looking ray when she passes, and try to play it off.
Ive been to the Newport Aquarium in the U.S. which has actual sharkrays on display. The thing about sharkrays is that theyre just rays that have a body plan similar to sharks. They're not actually hybrids. Knowing that i got a bad feeling as soon as it was legitimately proposed that sharks might have gotten a ray pregnant
Newport Oregon? If so I saw Keiko there as a kid! That was probably the best experience I ever had!
@@ArcadeOrca Same for me! I grew up about an hour-ish from Newport, and seeing Keiko as a kid was a pivotal moment in my life. I still tell my kids about him all the time, his life, the failed reintegration, his eventual death, and why some animals should _never_ be kept in captivity. Seeing him in that tank was spectacular, and so very sad
@@anonymouse9833 I felt happy for him because compared to where he came from that was a massive upgrade. And from research it wasn't a failed reintegration. He did find a pod and swam across that Atlantic. It was unfortunate because by the time he was wild and accepted in a pod he was already old in captivity standards. Most captive orcas pass before 25 unfortunately. Idk I'd say it overall was a reintegration win because he got to experience the real ocean again and was accepted into a group. He was likely to pass away regardless. So at least he had freedom for his last bit of life.
Super cool you got to see him too! Such an amazing moment for me too!
This has to be the sketchiest aquarium I've heard of, and sadly there are a lot of them. Please support AZA aquariums and not this mess
Best not to support any zoo. Like I said in another reply, the AZA has been seen perpetrating the abuse, whether making threats to close zoos that are trying to do right by the animal(s) in question (like with happened with the Elephants) or giving known abusers too many slaps on the wrists, essentially letting them abuse more animals.
JUSTICE FOR CHARLOTTE
Tf??
@@digitalmania6966 bots are getting whack af these days
This aquarium gives me “Sea World” vibes with the misinformation they are spreading.
YES💀
don't forget the abuse and neglect
Ooooh we got zoology drama!!! Finally a topic I’m invested and knowledgeable about!
So, my area of expertise is herpetology and pre vet, but I am also an aquarium hobbyist . it’s not normal, at all, to keep a community together when a certain fish is the target of aggression. The first action usually taken is isolation, which in social fish like rays should not be a permanent solution for any length of time longer than what’s absolutely necessary. Certain fish species can actually pass away from loneliness!
There’s also the fact that Charlotte would need very specific parameters and medications to treat open sores, so adding other fish to the mix would make maintaining those water parameters trickier than need be.
I am not familiar with the protocol for Ray pregnancies, but the people’s concern that it is no longer viable is on point, and all it would take is a simple ultrasound to determine whether the pups are still alive or not. If she’s deteriorating, my absolute first question would be “is she’s stressed? What’s the cause of that stress?” Stress is incredibly common in captive fish because of how delicate water ecosystems are, and it can lead to other diseases.
Ecco was/ is behaving incredibly strange during all of this. These should be clear cut factual answers with not a whole lot of room for opinions. Can pregnancies take longer than expected? Yes. Are the water parameters alright? Yes, no, whatever. Are the embryos alive? Yes, no, or we don’t know, there hasn’t been an ultrasound yet. It’s not rocket science. It’s zoology..one of the most innately understandable sciences. You know, because we all have a lifetime experience being animals. We sort of have this pretty fortunate advantage of knowing what it’s like to be animals.
This reeks of someone covering their butts for some sort of entirely preventable mistake, and because of the high profile of the pregnancy they would appear unprofessional and negligent if the truth came out. That last part is my personal opinion, but an educated one.
The Aquarium: There were bite marks on Charlotte
Me: oh man maybe you should separate them that sounds like some serious aggression-
The aquarium: sharks do this when they want to mate ❤❤
Me:
Me: how are you in business
Literally my exact thought process
There are so many reasons why sharks may bite that aren't related to breeding, these people just come across as ignorant..
They may have been bullying the ray
Yeah how did they not immediately jump to "oh the bitey boys were bullying the kicky boy i should seperate them for the time being and keep an extra close eye on them to see if aby behavior changes"
Im not sea guy but like... yk??? I mean id assume that for a ray getting bullied by a shark is more stressful than getting bullied by another ray
It’s quite literally common sense that you separate aggressive animals from other animals… like idk what they were thinking
The sharks sensed she was ill. They are opportunistic feeders! If my pet fish had bite wounds from other fish it's usually some health problem going on. Especially because I don't keep species together that show aggression. Common sense is remove poor Charlotte as soon as those marks were seen 😢
So they basically did that misogynistic “he’s harassing and assaulting her because he _likes_ her” thing but to a sting ray
Why do they not have a vet on staff? A trained professional? They have lots of animals living there and they don't even have a vet on staff...? Is that normal? I know that my local zoo has several vets on site daily that specialize in each type of animal that lives there. I can't imagine an aquarium being different. Isn't an aquarium just a wet zoo?
Edit for clarification: My "local zoo" is the St. Louis Zoo. Their entire goal is conservation and education so that means they definitely have people trained in keeping these guys happy and healthy. (A very good friend of mine being one of them...) I honestly don't trust anybody housing all those animals that don't have at least one trained veterinarian on site or at the very least, on call.
Hey there everyone! I've been trying to fix my camera frame rate issue. Please let me know if it looks any better in this video!
It's still pretty apparent i am afraid
I can’t really notice anything but again that’s probably just me
Not gonna lie, it's pretty noticeable. Looks choppy with maybe a 0.5 second delay with audio? All clips look good and audio is super clear though! And the video is awesome regardless ❤
It's a bit off on some points
Yeah it's pretty noticeable but not bothersome
The aquarium needs to be investigated and charged. I don't care if they had good intentions in the beginning. They are being willfully negligent by refusing Charlotte care from trained professionals. The fact they haven't named the disease is suspect.
The fact the mainstream media is only reporting on what the aquarium is saying rather than the unethical treatment of Charlotte disgusts me. So much for investigative journalism.
Parthenogenesis can actually be very common in some species! I once worked with a siberian eagle owl who produced another owl asexually (confirmed by DNA testing), though it's much better documented in chickens than owls.
Partho can happen in birds???
Am I reading what you said right? Birds can self reproduce?
@@QueenofthatankYes, you are reading correctly
@@Macachee Birds can also do this cool thing called "gynandromorphism". They have a "simpler" sex differentiation system (IIRC in birds it's ZZ and ZW?) that allows for them to have cells that give them entire organs or limbs that are a different sex, up to and including being divided neatly down the middle with one half getting male patterning and the other half getting the female one.
In general birds can do some REALLY COOL things (like spontaneously get an ancient trait like dinosaur teeth showing back up because a "modernizing" gene didn't work, or getting some wing-like feathering on their legs, which is also atavistic-- an ancient trait popping back up).
Thank you for covering this, i had not heard of charlotte.
i love your channel so much man
Thank you!!
The fact these people don't know that these animals can't crossbreed baffles me. They lack the possibility of doing such a thing. Sea life is amazing and deserves just as much care as other animals.
I hope Charlotte is going to be okay and is seen by a team who actually have proper veterinarian care, instead of aquarium volunteers who want clout.
Save the sea.
Edit: This is why I do intense research on aquariums, because there's so many that don't care for their animals.
And no, Sea World isn't a real aquarium. Never support Sea World.
Calling the police about a journalist asking questions is wildly inappropriate and they should be fined for waisting services.
I randomly looked up
“how long can stingrays be pregnant” and it took me straight to something about Charlotte saying
“three to four months
When was Charlotte expected to give birth? According to Perlman, in a typical stingray pregnancy - wherein a female has been impregnated by a male -the expected period of gestation is three to four months.”
TehMimi stingray video was definitely not on my list of videos I expected to watch today but here we are
I haven't seen the ultrasound video before now. I am a biologist, and although I am no expert in stingray anatomy or reproduction, I know that stingray babies do not look like white habanero peppers on an ultrasound like the lumps in Charlotte ultrasound. Baby stingrays look like black kidney beans on screen until they are ready to pop when they look like little black stingrays on the ultrasound screen. And when the "zoo" did the ultrasound live stream Charlotte would have been ready to pop, by the "zoo"'s timeline.
The bite marks left by the sharks looked more like a "get the hell away from me or I will eat you" bite mark rather than a mating bite mark because sharks don't mate with non-sharks. The sharks should have been moved to another tank after the first bite.
I am also concerned about the *overfeeding* comment the "zoo" made because they could have overcorrected themself and are now underfeeding her. That could explain the muscle loss, bite wounds not healing, and swimming pattern changing, if not completely then partially.
Charlotte and all of the other animals in that "zoo" need to be moved to a facility that knows what they are doing
Thank you, I immediately picked up on the unusual ultrasound as well. I wish this comment had more likes!
I have a feeling this was all a publicity stunt and they rented a male ray from another aquarium to mate with her.
EDIT: ...her pups (love that baby stingrays are called that) probably never existed from the very beginning...
With the recent pretend pregnancy/miscarriage OF page promotion, I can see why they'd be hesitant to come out and say it was never a real pregnancy. However, with a vulnerable animal still being involved, the public would be more supportive if they just admitted their mistake.
Really don't think it was that deep. They aren't the brightest bulbs so I don't think they had a master plan like that.
@@kismetcaffet9862
*ahem*
The fucking *what?*
@@-xxMelissaxx-turning off comments wasn't sketchy enough for you? They knew what they were doing
@@kismetcaffet9862 no shot they collaborated with only fans
I love how they said “we saw bite marks on Charlotte and didn’t think anything of it” like excuse me? WTF??? Anyone who knows anything about animals should know that you separate animals that are being aggressive towards other animals from said other animals. Like bruh, once again, wtf
I have family on the board with AZA I'm putting an official complaint in for team ecco thanks for raising awareness tehmimi
Stingrays can, rarely, make themselves pregnant in the same style as the "lesbian lizards", parthenogenesis for stingrays though can have higher complications compared to species who've had more generations to evolve/adapt around pathenogenisis
As someone who is a zoologist and a stingray caretaker in Oklahoma. Yes stingrays will wait to give birth till threat and stressing things are out of the area. If she was ever getting bitten by the sharks in the environment then she will not give birth. Having cuts can happen offton on the face when dealing with textured side walls but one on the back is more of a sign that something is attacking her. Normally the plan of action is a smaller quarantine pool by herself in the back area where she can get medication in the water. I have never seen someone keep them on display and with other animals for that matter wile getting treatment. But happy to see the injury is looking better now. It's hard for me to do a forsure claim what is going on or happening just off what I can find on their posts and videos. But can say I'm not liking what I'm seeing and overall hating the miss information being handed out so willingly.
And to think… if they weren’t so gung-ho on insisting it was possible for their sharks to breed with a stingray, no one would have investigated or critiqued Charlotte’s mistreatment.
I am a Biologist, and based on the details of this story I don't think anyone needs to be one to know what likely happened here. Most of it to me just seems like the same kind of issues we see covered on this channel.
1. Negligence & Ego: Charlotte always had this "reproductive issue" from the start, and these [fantastic professionals] tried to do everything in-house (ego, wanting the only key to the kingdom hence BLOCKING scientists) without a single marine vet on board to run actual tests to rule out that exact thing. There are certainly conditions that can appear like pregnancies. The countless scientists who wanted to help would have definitely checked her in several ways. This is honestly the most charitable explanation I could give, and it's still heinous. These people should not have animals.
or
2. Clout & Abuse: Charlotte's whole "pregnancy" was never real, it was a hoax, and now the team gets a "convenient way out" of the lie ("oh no, actually she lost them and cannot get pregnant again!") that forces our empathy when people started catching onto the B.S. This would ALSO explain the staunch aggression towards scientists literally offering to help for FREE-because they'd immediately find out what was going on here. This would mean her injuries were just due to lack of care, which is evil. The way they constantly refused explanations that didn't fit the one they wanted says they were never interested in the truth, which makes me think this one is more likely. The initial post where they say "not to show off your knowledge to other users" was a bit of a red flag for me even not knowing about this story before this video lol. Science is discussion.
No normal person, if they want the best for the animal AND aren't lying about the animal's status, would deny pro-bono expert assistance especially when said animal is actively deteriorating.
Bro this is literally just the "when I go online and spread misinformation" meme-
Why'd they leaver her with sharks that are attacking her? 😢
Parthenogenesis typically occurs in species undergoing stressful situations so I never found this topic amazing but rather sketchy and sad😭
the news we need!! thank you!!
17:04 The team doing this LARP of the stingray typing out a social media post reminds me of an old down the rabbit hole video where he talked about this cat cafe and how the owner mismanaged it into the ground, she also did this same stunt on Facebook with her cats.
Yeah, calling this sketchy is the understatement of the century.
You pronounced it WAY better then team ECCO. The sharks should NOT have been in there with her when they discovered she was pregnant (or thought they did) or saw the bite. They should also absolutely know EXACTLY how much they're feeding her. There is SO much wrong here. The fact they never considered something like cancer using only an ultrasound (that no one who is trained to read them read) to confirm is very concerning. I live near a facility that does what ECCO claims to in a nearby state and they would definitely NOT do something like this if they had a weird "pregnancy" on their hands no matter how historic. They would document it and share it AFTER they had pups or sharks or shups (shark/pups) not least because a ton of kids go see these animals and so much can go wrong even if the pregnancy is completely normal.
this is a rough watch; i love aquariums but only those that are well managed. according to the AZA website it doesn't look like team ECCO is an accredited organization, which goes against their credibility in being able to take care of their animals. looks like this is just a poorly managed aquarium trying to exploit an animal
I can honestly tell you, just from my experience as an aquarium visitor-her tank is too small; the water is most likely not only the wrong temperature, but the wrong ph with it; the sharks should never have been allowed to be in the tank with her as they eat rays-depending on sz vs sz, clearly; and the shadiness of the employees/volunteers really tells me that the pups were a lie and the gap in updates was to give them a chance to treat the ignored ulcer and cover their butts.
who tf sees shark bites on a different species and thinks "omg they mated! hybrid babies!!! 🤗😍🥰" and not "omg we need to separate them because they can't cohabitate"? like wha?
Never heard of Charlotte before, poor girl. I hope she gets the help she needs ASAP or that this is just a massive misunderstanding that can be fixed. Glad to see her ulcer has healed a little bit though
This is why things like the AZA and being acredited through them MATTERS. Even if she was pregnant they waited away too long after her "due date" to be getting any help for her. It's just been a display of irresponsible keeping and honestly a publicity stunt. Backyard zoos and aquariums are the worst for breeding and providing to improper places/establishments, they don't follow the same guidelines for breeding and protecting genetic diversity in their offspring. The zoo/aquarium might look nice but without AZA there's no way to know what behind the scenes care looks like.
it's kinda odd how they didn't seperate charlotte from the sharks that were biting her too much. shame on the very people who were SUPPOSED to be taking care of her for not separating her!! 🙎🏻♀️
So i just had a baby and they only give you two ultrasounds so i was looking into those places that you can go get extra ultrasound pictures and i was reading that ultrasounds use heat and they can cause harm if not opperated by someone officially medically trained to do it safely.....so i hope they didnt cause harm to charlotte by "learning" how to use the ultrasound machine.
21:58 Mote Marine Labatory and Aquarium was founded by a woman called “the shark lady” and a ton of their research revolves around sharks and rays.
I'm so stressed hearing this, I really hope that someone saves Charlotte.
As a general update, Charlotte the Stingray has passed away as of late June 30th of the rare disease.
This is devastating
BRUH I just searched her up just now and she died like 3 days ago. After this video was posted a month ago.
I'm not a specialist but I have my own theory about what was going on. This happened to my mom when she had a tumor in her ovary and it made her look pregnant, I'm worried that it may be a tumor or a growth of some sort. That's where I get very worried, loss of muscle mass and reproductive issues are signs of cancer. What I this is a cancerous tumor was growing in her reproductive system and mistaken for pregnancy and is slowly killing that innocent stingray. Or maybe she miscarried and has a non-cancerous infection from the pups not being removed due to reproductive issues. Either way, this stingray needs urgent care and this place needs to be investigated.
On top of that, this is common sense, you do not put young male animals with older female animals, even if they can't produce offspring. The males will attempt to breed with the female and can lead to injuries or even death of the female, I a giant tank with many different animals, sure it's fine. But no, not in this case, I go to aquariums a lot and it is a bad idea to do that. I've asked and yes, in smaller takes even animals of the same species are separated and only breeding pairs are put together. I saw this with sturgeon. I could be wrong, but this sting ray needs help, and fast. I'm afraid the next update with be an obituary
I did not realize this aquarium was in my hometown like 10 minutes away from my childhood home. I wish i could say they're an exception, but this is what I expect from my hometown. Knowing they're based in Hendersonville makes sense. Doesn't excuse what happened to Charlotte though
Well thanks, your old neighbors here appreciate that. For anyone reading your comment, not all of us are trying to sketchy things and it's actually a lovely place.
@@_Amanda_Lynn that's a strawman. I never said everyone was trying to do sketchy things. This is about an aquarium. Not individual people.
With this timeline, I can almost perfectly pinpoint the moment that Team Ecco realized that what they (genuinely, ignorantly) thought was pup(s) was actually a tumor. They uploaded a few more videos and played along with the pregnancy narrative for fear of repercussions. And honestly, I get it. If they came out and said “ohh.. we just realized it’s actually that Charlotte’s had cancer for over a year now”, they would be sued for fraud out the wazoo, and likely jailed for animal abuse with the exposure that they are unqualified to be handling stingrays, and likely any other marine life. They definitely spent all that donation money on a new car, gifts/education for the kids, etc. They can’t afford all those lawsuits! The LAST thing they would want would be for actual scientists to come in and confirm what they already knew, because even asking the scientist to sign an NDA before their evaluation would look too suspicious. They chose to save face over Charlotte’s health and let her continue to suffer to save themselves from their own dumbass mistake.
Shark stingrays would be horrifying
They exist. Look up guitarfish
Imagine a shark with a barb they can whip around at prey. 😬
@@SoManyRandomRamblings that makes me want to go in the ocean or anybody of water ever again
Not really
Rhina ancylostoma
Maybe they're waiting until they can get their hands into some stingray pups
One thing I find very questionable now that we know the truth is that if Team ECHO actually thought she was pregnant, then why wasn’t she induced when she passed her “due date”?
That is terrifying that a aquarium doesnt know they are over feeding a stingray!! They should have records of all animals normal eating and weight
This is honestly upsetting, since I love sharks and stingrays to my knowledge are the cousins(?) of sharks.
I still remember my anger learning about the Monterey Bay Aquarium keeping great white sharks in captivity then releasing the sharks once they began to show signs of poor health. Its great they're releasing them but its obvious that such a shark can't be kept in captivity because they aren't built for a contained space, they're built for the open ocean. I don't know if they still do this, but I haven't looked into it in years.
Also, when it comes to sharks, I only know that hammerheads will hunt stingrays but I don't doubt that other species would do the same. Its generally a good idea to keep stingrays and sharks separate as a precaution. There's a reason why small sharks are seperated from Octopus as well due to a discovery many years ago where the aquarium staff found out that the disappearances of many small sharks in an exhibit was traced back to a SINGLE octopus in the same exhibit. There's a video of it and it was honestly hard to watch since, again, I love sharks
Afaik Monterey stopped doing that a long time ago once they realized there was no way to keep a great white in captivity without them getting sick.
Mistakes made, but charalotte is baletent negaliegence
Charlotte has sadly passed due to "reproductive disease" last night June 30 at 10 PM they announced it
Just found out about this. This is devastating
I remember this, defs not believing team echo from the jump.
Sharks and stingrays are cool, and I hope Charlotte will be ok!
fantastic vid. lots of research and a very calming voice. got me subbed!
Are there no inspections for aquariums? Im very concerned for the treatment of their other animals given their treatment of this one shows they dont seem to involve vetinary care in their routine care of these animals, arent interested in FREE professional assistance when dealing with a niche situation and havent even done enough research or planning in the daily running of their aquarium to know how much they should or are feeding their animals.
These people should not be allowed to care for exotic animals as they only seem to care about what use they can get out of them, be it money from displaying them in the aquarium or status and advertising by treating their animals as an experiment entirely unethically.
Also im sick of these people associating their abuse with the scientific process, of course scientific DISCOVERY can be made in any horrific way, but this is not how scientists in this century conduct themselves, their not even applying the basic scientific method you learn in like 7th grade correctly.
Inspections are required for AZA accreditation. Sadly, this aquarium seems not to be. Shows the importance of *only* support AZA accredited ones, or else they can be messes like this (or the godawful "roadside zoos" full of clearly distressed animals in depressingly tiny cages).
Good point about "for science" too - Mengele & Unit 731 may have made scientific discoveries, but only thru war crimes & ghastly abμse.
I can't believe misogyny killed a stingray.
The “blobby stuff” that they point out looks like a cyst. I found a few clear images of her ultrasounds. Comparing to a healthy ray ultrasound I think shes had this the whole time. (Im not qualified i am still studying so any fully qualified biologists i would love to hear your thoughts!) I personally believe they knew its either this or they didn’t realize. Which would be fully their fault for not letting the proper people help.
Honestly the research I’ve been doing on this has taught me a lot about rays! And I appreciate that learning experience but this also just makes me more concerned for her health just from what i have learned. I pray for this rays health.
I live in the area where the aquarium is and I have been following Charlotte’s case for months. I have been waiting for someone to make a video about this topic for a while now. Thank you for informing others about the reality of the situation ❤️
thank you for this
I'm a zoologist, specializing in wildlife husbandry, and I suspected that Charlotte was diseased from the very beginning (and I did comment on many of Team ECCO's posts to say so). Reproductive illness is common across the animal kingdom, including fish. Older female fish in particular are susceptible to cysts and tumors in the reproductive tract, which often cause localized swelling. I can understand why inexperienced people can see this occur and think "pregnancy!" but any experienced aquarists should know better, especially when no pups are ever born. Ultrasounds can be used to gain an understanding of what's happening where, and a biopsy is the next step towards identifying the cause (infection, cancer, etc). If a veterinarian had performed Charlotte's ultrasound, she could have been diagnosed months ago.
Your comments on the aquarium's asinine statements on Charlotte's bite woulds were definitely reasonable. However, depending on the severity of the bites, seperation might not have been necessary. Some minor aggression is normal, especially if injuries are minimal. Then again, the aquarium never showed anybody the bite marks.
As for intervention: the government does not care whatsoever that a stingray is being neglected or abused. Animal welfare legislation is practically non-existant in the US, especially for fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds. Even when laws do exist, enforcement is lax at best. Take a look at the Miami Seaquarium's infamous history if you want a really scandalous story. No spoilers, but the mayor ordered the Seaquarium evicted from the property, and the Seaquarium refused. Now they're going to court, and the City of Miami is preparing to forcibly take possession of the animals if necessary. And that's just the newest update to a 70-year-long story of neglect and cruelty.
I never really looked into this story after I heard about it. I just heard "Stingray pregnant without male interaction!" and assumed it was parthenogenesis. The details are so interesting now that I'm hearing more. Thank you for covering this.
I'm going to get religious really quick here and just mention that the "Immaculate Conception" does not refer to Mary concieving Jesus without having relations with a man (that's just referred to as the incarnation). The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being concieved without the stain of Original sin. Her soul was immaculate (pure and unstained) from conception. It's a very, VERY, common misattribution of the term and I fault no one for not knowing the technicalities.
Glad someone else mentioned the immaculate conception lol but Charlotte is probs without sin too.
@@FemaleClown lol, you're right. XD
Poor Charlotte, i hope her & her pups/pup will be okay if there are even any pups to begin with. D:
Rays are pregnant for roughly four months,it’s been nearly six! She isn’t pregnant!
@@bugloverspiderlover8490 Oh wow, only four months?? I never knew that, so is team echo lying about Charlotte being pregnant then??
@@Random_person696oh for sure. just a publicity stunt. i think it would be miraculous if she really was pregnant.
@@artbeeverythingif she was ever really pregnant, those pups are dead and have turned cancerous by now, hence why the wound on her back isn’t healing.
I honestly believe she has a massive tumor that they’re pretending are her pups- if there were really any in there to begin with.
@@DeanDraxon8752 i've heard of fetuses calcifying in the womb, maybe they aren't cancerous and she just needs a c section?.. poor dear.
Thank you so much for shedding light on this. I keep supporting you most of all, for your love and advocacy of animals. It’s exactly what I try to do every day of my life but IRL lol I’m too too shy for TH-cam.
As a person who works on Main Street only 2 blocks away, all of us locals believe it was a hoax or something along those lines. She may have been pregnant at one point, but they have been so shady with her and the information that they post that its hard to believe they took care of her well before/during/after the pregnancy. I've never been to the aquarium, though my sister and her son have, and they say it's not well taken care of, and it's just sketchy, tbh. I don't trust that they take care of their animals, so thats why I've refused to go in. Before Charlotte was pregnant, she was in the touch tanks, which i have strong opinions about. All in all, it's any extremely sketchy situation and I hope Charlotte gets the care that she needs.
(When I say rarely, I mean RARELY, there is evidence of it happening in the wild, but we haven't had it happen quite like this in captivity)
I cannot find the Hendersonville aquarium on the Association of Zoo’s and Aquariums website which means they are not accredited. Which makes me feel even worse about this situation. Supporting aquariums is not a bad thing in fact a ton of them do amazing things for conservation efforts. But zoos and aquariums like these that are not AZA accredited give zoos and aquariums a bad name :(
I wonder if she was truly pregnant at first, but due to the staff neglecting to separate her from the other animals like some cohabitating tanks/exhibits would probably do, she probably paused or 'miscarried' (I dunno if they can experience a miscarriage Im not a ray expert) due to the stress of being harassed by the sharks. And then she was unable to reabsorb the pup(s) and developed a disease because of no medical intervention because of staff neglect.
The whole thing could've been avoided from the start if the team went to a specialist the moment they found something wrong or when Charlotte was 'overdue'
as someone who loves fish and hopes to have large aquariums someday, its definitely weird that they wont separate her from the sharks. she should NOT just be swimming around with wounds like it doesnt matter, especially with the guys who gave her the wounds.
I’ve seen one video from them about her but never remembered how to find them again. I cannot believe that they’re doing this but I thank you for covering this. I hope the agency covering welfare for aquatic life get involved
Charlotte reminds me of my favorite snake. Shes a rainbow boa in the local zoo that went through parthogenisis, she was the FIRST recorded incident of a rainbow boa in captivity going through parthogenisis, it was so exciting waiting for those little snakes
The more and more ive heard of Charlotte's journey, the sadder and sadder i feel for her. Instead of something amazing like those boa babies, its just. Painful.
I always assumed they were joking about the Shark bit….but they still didn’t handle everything right. They neglected to act or update us and the pups didn’t make it. It revealed to us all that they have no clue what they were doing and err’d by not getting her to a true marine vet in time :(
i’ve had the opportunity to see stingrays in person many times (the big local pet hobby shop has a giant tank for them) and the fact they continue to obviously mistreat this beautiful creature just breaks my heart. don’t get an animal if you can’t take care of them, this is especially *vital* for educational facilities like zoos or aquariums. i’m so worried for their other animals too, charlotte could just be the more obvious case of neglect & abuse.
they should have had an in-house or a call-in vet or marine biologist on charlotte the moment they noticed anything was wrong, not buy an ultrasound machine and teach themselves to read it. people go to *school* to learn how to properly read the readings from those machines, you can’t just buy one and read a manual and expect to be able to read the state of an animal.
ultrasounds need second opinions of trained professionals, they need to understand the proper anatomy of the animal and what pregnancy actually looks like and how it affects their organs and body.
i hate people and companies like this: those who think they know better than others, especially people trained in the actual science they are trying to justify neglect for.
the outcry for charlotte does warm my heart because there is at least some people out there who care for animals, and hold people accountable that obviously don’t care about the beautiful creature they have in their care. i hope charlotte is taken from their care, because they obviously haven’t cared about her enough in the 8 years they say they’ve had her.
Charlotte needs to go into better care. They're not equipped to care for her and I'm curious to see their reptiles I know a lot about them and freshwater fish.
I always wanted to know what happened to the charlotte babies
In some cases, dead babies still inside the mother will start to rot and kill the mother. Maybe the mass is something
more dangerous, seeing as that Charlotte is losing weight/losing muscle mass
Love your videos - completely on another note - where do you get your beanies? I love them! Sending love from 🇦🇺❤️
I'm not on tiktok, so was unaware of Charlotte's existence before today but i don't think she was ever pregnant. I don’t think they knew how to read an ultrasound and just interpreted whatever they saw as a pregnancy. I hope they consult the necessary experts to improve her treatment.
I am a behavioural marine scientist (specialise in keeping and the sleep of marine animals) and this was incredibly sketchy but also a small part of me was curious but my alarm bells went off the second shark was mentioned