I agree with your simplified character sentiment. Ive run/played 5e for 7 year, and now with only 9 months of SD, I've noticed all my players are no longer concerned with what power up they get next level, or how it will effect their "build". Instead, they are focused on the world, and how their characters effect it and the lore. I'm sure there are 5e tables that "have it all, and more..", but for my group, stripping away all the gizmos and mechanical fluff really helped us focus on the narrative. Ps. the "shadowdark not good for long/out door campaigns" is bs, I'm literally running Tomb of Annihilation out of the 5e book and just swapping monsters, treasure and DC's to shadowdark version during prep. easy as^^
Great review! I'd like to recommend two things to bump-up any Shadowdark campaign. First, the Cursed Scroll zines by Kelsey Dionne are great official expansions of the game. Second, though not "official" (in the sense they are not Kelsey's work), the Letters From the Dark zine available from drivethrurpg is of at least equal quality to Cursed Scroll. There are currently five issues of Letters (and one half-issue of just pregen mercenaries) and the author appears to be going strong. Both zines have been great at expanding the game for my players.
Wonderful review - thanks so much for doing this Todd. I own a store in Bunbury, Western Australia, and I have Shadowdark both on our shelves and on our webstore. Kelsey has been totally supportive and enthusiastic about wholesale. I suspect many game stores are either oblivious about it, or simply don't realise that bulk wholesale of Shadowdark is an option. I'm old enough to remember the fun of raw D&D back in the late '70's, and when I heard about Shadowdark I immediately saw the potential to recapture those wonderful memories. That is also how I describe and sell the game to customers. I've only had one chance so far to DM a short game, but it did not disappoint.
@@ToddPutnam When I got in touch with Kelsey it was through the kickstarter comments. But Kelsey has a Contact Form on her Arcane Library website, and I would be astonished if she didn't respond - she has been super communicative and helpful.
@@brainspice4759 My friend Jeff, who owns a game store here in the USA, used the contact form and said he's already received a prompt, positive response. Thank you so much for your help. It made a difference! Really appreciated.
@@ToddPutnam That's great Todd! I'm very glad to have helped. By the way, I've linked this video to my Shadowdark web store page - I hope that's okay? I think it is a very fair endorsement of the game!
Kelsey Dionne personally engages users on her company Discord server; tell your friend to go ask there; no question that either Kelsey or one of her friends there will definitely be able to help you.
great video man! ive run 5 sessions of shadowdark and me and my group are really enjoying it! prep is fun and easy on my side, and the party is having a great time thinking outside the box! im hoping to eventually move my long term campaign over from 5e as well
Great review Todd. I think after my group finishes their current adventure, The Elder Oak, using Dragonbane, we are going to play Shadowdark. I am looking forward to it. From a recent comment from Kelsey, she stated that she is working on getting SD into store distribution. She is also working on a 3 more Cursed Scrolls and she has talked about doing a megadungeon.
You pretty much touched on everything I love about ShadowDark RPG. One of my 3 weekly games is now SD, and I plan to convince my players to switch from 5e when the current campaign is over.
I love me some Shadowdark. I'm in a bi-weekly game that started in a local game store then moved online to avoid the weather outside. Some stores really do not mind having it at one of their tables. But do buy something there anyway, even if it is just some coke or couple of dice.
I didn’t jump straight from 5e with the ogl stuff but I must admit I’ve been caught up in the hype recently and just purchased the pdf for shadowdark and I’m excited to try it with my group! Kelsey is hugely impressive and I agree the arcane library is amazing! I’m sure it’s just going to get better but I love the relative simplicity of the system! It does what it does very well!
I think you and your group are going to have a blast but I would really love to hear back from you again after you have a few sessions under your belt.
One thing I wonder about is how Shadowdark holds up for long term campaigns and high level play. What happens after level 10? Do players just start over with a new character or is there a way to open up the game to levels beyond 10?
Level 10 in Shadowdark is like level 20 in 5E. That's the highest you go, however there's no reason you can't continue to adventure and gain more magical loot, wealth, social status, etc. It holds up well because level 10 characters are powerful but they aren't superpowered. I talk about that in the video.
Thanks for your insights. I want to run a game in my city but am having problems finding players but will stick it out. I think Kelsey should kickstart an on-line portal like D&D Beyond. I've only played in 4 SD sessions. Twice I was the only player. It was fun but it was almost pure exploration as the DM totally leaned on the dice so there was no combat.
I am just a few weeks in to SD. This may have been asked and answered. But ... Does AD&d stuff convert somewhat easily? Ive got a lot of the old modules and books from the 198os. Trying to get one or both my groups to shift over. . Tbere is a lot of SD specific material but i would love to revisit my old boxes!
AD&D easily converts over to Shadowdark as the power levels are very similar. The main thing you'd have to convert is the descending AC into an ascending one. Other than that, hit points, etc are very similar. I have a bunch of B/X & AD&D sourcebooks I use, including my Deities & Demigods and all the Monster Manuals, Fiend Folio, etc.
Really great video. I appreciate it being a 1 year review rather than anything else. It gives a good picture of the state of the game and what is ahead. As a content creator, I am eager to write a mega dungeon and contribute with new monster stat blocks though progress has been slow and it will be a while before my module sees the light of the day.
I hadn’t played a TTrpg’s since first 1ed Pathfinder which I was a huge fan of, but have played since red box BECMI. My daughter got me back into playing and so I bought the main 3 books and off we went. Ran a couple of games and I just didn’t like the feel of the game and was looking for something grittier. I found Dungeoncraft page and began running an amalgamation of Deathbringer and Index card rpg. When Shadowdark came out immediately switched to Shadowdark. Personally it marries the B/X aesthetic and with some updated mechanics. The spell list is almost b/x so the players and DM are not overwhelmed with spell choices. There are still somethings I wish it had like room DC but I understand why it doesn’t. It plays great for larger tables 5-8 is our norm and it’s easy to learn.
Great video. Balanced and based on actual experience! Just curious what you've been doing for your campaign? Modded published adventures, homebrew? If homebrew, what are you using to develop and build?
My current campaign is pretty simple and just inspired by a massively expanded "Keep on the Borderlands" adventure. Each session they go into a different one of the Caves of Chaos, or deal with something happening in the keep itself like a plague that brings the dead back to life as zombies, etc. The over-all arc of the campaign is that each of the clans of creatures in the Caves of Chaos seems to be linked together in some kind of a mysterious Alliance with the Lords of Chaos and the heroes are digger deeper to find out who's behind it all. I literally make up a new adventure for every session based on that over-all theme while being very loosely tied to the original B2 module. That said, knowing the module wouldn't help a player because I'm just using it as a theme template and not doing any of it word for word.
@@ToddPutnam Thanks! 2 questions. Any tips for converting stats etc from B2? And what is your process for making new adventures- inspirations, random tables, rule sets, adventures?
@@BobIrving2 You can take B2 stats as is. Power level is very close. My process for making new adventures won't be very helpful, I fear. I start with a totally vague idea and as I lay out tiles, encounter ideas pop into my mind and I string them altogether into a little story with plot, motive, hopefully some unexpected twists or turns and some fights that are either tactically, or emotionally engaging. It's kind of like self-generative creativity where each next step builds on the previous step. Takes about 3 to 4 hours to build the table while fleshing out the plot line.
@@ToddPutnam Makes sense; thanks for the reply. I'm not able to do the terrain thing like you, but that "self-generative creativity" makes sense to me. As a newish DM, however, I feel that I've got a lot less for my creative brain to draw on than more experienced DM's. But we'll build as we go.
@@BobIrving2 that's how it starts for everyone. What matters is the desire to be 1% better than you were the last session you ran and to keep running sessions consistently. That's what builds up the mental tools.
I have played Shadowdark and I like it, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the game's XP system. Gold gives you XP, but the normal old school system of 1 GP piece = 1 XP point is so much easier than the oddly abstract system that Shadowdark uses. Shadowdark simplifies alot of game mechanics, but the game's XP system is needlessly confusing and vague. It also makes compatibility with TSR modules, OSE modules, Labyrinth Lord modules, etc more difficult than it needs to be. The XP system is the game's biggest weakness, IMO. But, otherwise, I really like the game.
I THINK - I don't know for sure - that she did that as a way to stop the problem of characters requiring mountains of gold to level and then DMs have to figure out what the players are going to spend it all on. Agreed, though. It does make cross compatibility with OSR systems harder.
@@ToddPutnamthe way AD&D handles the wealth that characters can accumulate through adventuring is to implement training costs and upkeep. I do this in my OSE game and we are perpetually broke at early levels in our AD&D game.
“Not Innovative” is a HUUUGE red herring that butt hurt bros use constantly. It’s just sad. She has literally said “It’s just my version of D&D”. No game is perfect but Kelsey has a brilliant game design sense that comes through loud and clear in Shadowdark.
I could see someone saying "bland" if coming from a super hero RPG like 5e. That is to say its bland IF you expect to: 1. min/max characters 2. have large amounts of crunch 3. have multiple actions, bonus actions and reactions on your turn 4. murder hobo everything in sight with no worry
“Not Innovative” is a HUUUGE red herring that butt hurt bros use constantly. It’s just sad. She has literally said “It’s just my version of D&D”. No game is perfect but Kelsey has a brilliant game design sense that comes through loud and clear in Shadowdark.
I agree with your simplified character sentiment. Ive run/played 5e for 7 year, and now with only 9 months of SD, I've noticed all my players are no longer concerned with what power up they get next level, or how it will effect their "build". Instead, they are focused on the world, and how their characters effect it and the lore.
I'm sure there are 5e tables that "have it all, and more..", but for my group, stripping away all the gizmos and mechanical fluff really helped us focus on the narrative.
Ps. the "shadowdark not good for long/out door campaigns" is bs, I'm literally running Tomb of Annihilation out of the 5e book and just swapping monsters, treasure and DC's to shadowdark version during prep. easy as^^
Great review! I'd like to recommend two things to bump-up any Shadowdark campaign. First, the Cursed Scroll zines by Kelsey Dionne are great official expansions of the game. Second, though not "official" (in the sense they are not Kelsey's work), the Letters From the Dark zine available from drivethrurpg is of at least equal quality to Cursed Scroll. There are currently five issues of Letters (and one half-issue of just pregen mercenaries) and the author appears to be going strong. Both zines have been great at expanding the game for my players.
Wonderful review - thanks so much for doing this Todd. I own a store in Bunbury, Western Australia, and I have Shadowdark both on our shelves and on our webstore. Kelsey has been totally supportive and enthusiastic about wholesale. I suspect many game stores are either oblivious about it, or simply don't realise that bulk wholesale of Shadowdark is an option. I'm old enough to remember the fun of raw D&D back in the late '70's, and when I heard about Shadowdark I immediately saw the potential to recapture those wonderful memories. That is also how I describe and sell the game to customers. I've only had one chance so far to DM a short game, but it did not disappoint.
That sounds wonderful. Thank you so much for replying. How would local game stores go about contacting her for wholesale purchases of Shadowdark?
@@ToddPutnam When I got in touch with Kelsey it was through the kickstarter comments. But Kelsey has a Contact Form on her Arcane Library website, and I would be astonished if she didn't respond - she has been super communicative and helpful.
@@brainspice4759 My friend Jeff, who owns a game store here in the USA, used the contact form and said he's already received a prompt, positive response. Thank you so much for your help. It made a difference! Really appreciated.
@@ToddPutnam That's great Todd! I'm very glad to have helped. By the way, I've linked this video to my Shadowdark web store page - I hope that's okay? I think it is a very fair endorsement of the game!
@@brainspice4759 Sure thing. Glad I could be of help as well. Thank you.
Excellent video and synopsis Todd and I agree with you all down the line.
Game stores can easily sell Shadowdark though; the Arcane Library has a business to business retail distribution program.
How would a game store go about doing that? I have a friend who would love to sell it in his store.
Kelsey Dionne personally engages users on her company Discord server; tell your friend to go ask there; no question that either Kelsey or one of her friends there will definitely be able to help you.
Some stores are selling it My FLGS in Toronto is has it on its shelf
That's fantastic news! I hope that trend continues. Thank you for letting me know.
Very clear and organised. You are good at explaining. Thank you!
Wonderful review Todd. Good to see your face. We play mostly 5e / PF2, but very interested in running a Shadowdark campaign.
great video man! ive run 5 sessions of shadowdark and me and my group are really enjoying it! prep is fun and easy on my side, and the party is having a great time thinking outside the box! im hoping to eventually move my long term campaign over from 5e as well
Great review Todd. I think after my group finishes their current adventure, The Elder Oak, using Dragonbane, we are going to play Shadowdark. I am looking forward to it. From a recent comment from Kelsey, she stated that she is working on getting SD into store distribution. She is also working on a 3 more Cursed Scrolls and she has talked about doing a megadungeon.
You pretty much touched on everything I love about ShadowDark RPG. One of my 3 weekly games is now SD, and I plan to convince my players to switch from 5e when the current campaign is over.
I love me some Shadowdark. I'm in a bi-weekly game that started in a local game store then moved online to avoid the weather outside. Some stores really do not mind having it at one of their tables. But do buy something there anyway, even if it is just some coke or couple of dice.
I didn’t jump straight from 5e with the ogl stuff but I must admit I’ve been caught up in the hype recently and just purchased the pdf for shadowdark and I’m excited to try it with my group! Kelsey is hugely impressive and I agree the arcane library is amazing! I’m sure it’s just going to get better but I love the relative simplicity of the system! It does what it does very well!
I think you and your group are going to have a blast but I would really love to hear back from you again after you have a few sessions under your belt.
One thing I wonder about is how Shadowdark holds up for long term campaigns and high level play. What happens after level 10? Do players just start over with a new character or is there a way to open up the game to levels beyond 10?
Level 10 in Shadowdark is like level 20 in 5E. That's the highest you go, however there's no reason you can't continue to adventure and gain more magical loot, wealth, social status, etc. It holds up well because level 10 characters are powerful but they aren't superpowered. I talk about that in the video.
Thanks for your insights. I want to run a game in my city but am having problems finding players but will stick it out. I think Kelsey should kickstart an on-line portal like D&D Beyond.
I've only played in 4 SD sessions. Twice I was the only player. It was fun but it was almost pure exploration as the DM totally leaned on the dice so there was no combat.
There is an excellent SD Discord, which many players use to find games. Kelsey is also very active in it.
I am just a few weeks in to SD. This may have been asked and answered. But ...
Does AD&d stuff convert somewhat easily? Ive got a lot of the old modules and books from the 198os. Trying to get one or both my groups to shift over. . Tbere is a lot of SD specific material but i would love to revisit my old boxes!
AD&D easily converts over to Shadowdark as the power levels are very similar. The main thing you'd have to convert is the descending AC into an ascending one. Other than that, hit points, etc are very similar. I have a bunch of B/X & AD&D sourcebooks I use, including my Deities & Demigods and all the Monster Manuals, Fiend Folio, etc.
@@ToddPutnam is it as simple as subtracting ad&d ac from 20? Sort of ... Ish ... Kind of
@@michaelriggs9232 20-thac0
Really great video. I appreciate it being a 1 year review rather than anything else. It gives a good picture of the state of the game and what is ahead.
As a content creator, I am eager to write a mega dungeon and contribute with new monster stat blocks though progress has been slow and it will be a while before my module sees the light of the day.
I hadn’t played a TTrpg’s since first 1ed Pathfinder which I was a huge fan of, but have played since red box BECMI. My daughter got me back into playing and so I bought the main 3 books and off we went. Ran a couple of games and I just didn’t like the feel of the game and was looking for something grittier. I found Dungeoncraft page and began running an amalgamation of Deathbringer and Index card rpg. When Shadowdark came out immediately switched to Shadowdark. Personally it marries the B/X aesthetic and with some updated mechanics. The spell list is almost b/x so the players and DM are not overwhelmed with spell choices. There are still somethings I wish it had like room DC but I understand why it doesn’t. It plays great for larger tables 5-8 is our norm and it’s easy to learn.
Great video. Balanced and based on actual experience! Just curious what you've been doing for your campaign? Modded published adventures, homebrew? If homebrew, what are you using to develop and build?
My current campaign is pretty simple and just inspired by a massively expanded "Keep on the Borderlands" adventure. Each session they go into a different one of the Caves of Chaos, or deal with something happening in the keep itself like a plague that brings the dead back to life as zombies, etc. The over-all arc of the campaign is that each of the clans of creatures in the Caves of Chaos seems to be linked together in some kind of a mysterious Alliance with the Lords of Chaos and the heroes are digger deeper to find out who's behind it all. I literally make up a new adventure for every session based on that over-all theme while being very loosely tied to the original B2 module. That said, knowing the module wouldn't help a player because I'm just using it as a theme template and not doing any of it word for word.
@@ToddPutnam Thanks! 2 questions. Any tips for converting stats etc from B2? And what is your process for making new adventures- inspirations, random tables, rule sets, adventures?
@@BobIrving2 You can take B2 stats as is. Power level is very close. My process for making new adventures won't be very helpful, I fear. I start with a totally vague idea and as I lay out tiles, encounter ideas pop into my mind and I string them altogether into a little story with plot, motive, hopefully some unexpected twists or turns and some fights that are either tactically, or emotionally engaging. It's kind of like self-generative creativity where each next step builds on the previous step. Takes about 3 to 4 hours to build the table while fleshing out the plot line.
@@ToddPutnam Makes sense; thanks for the reply. I'm not able to do the terrain thing like you, but that "self-generative creativity" makes sense to me. As a newish DM, however, I feel that I've got a lot less for my creative brain to draw on than more experienced DM's. But we'll build as we go.
@@BobIrving2 that's how it starts for everyone. What matters is the desire to be 1% better than you were the last session you ran and to keep running sessions consistently. That's what builds up the mental tools.
I have played Shadowdark and I like it, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the game's XP system. Gold gives you XP, but the normal old school system of 1 GP piece = 1 XP point is so much easier than the oddly abstract system that Shadowdark uses. Shadowdark simplifies alot of game mechanics, but the game's XP system is needlessly confusing and vague. It also makes compatibility with TSR modules, OSE modules, Labyrinth Lord modules, etc more difficult than it needs to be. The XP system is the game's biggest weakness, IMO.
But, otherwise, I really like the game.
I THINK - I don't know for sure - that she did that as a way to stop the problem of characters requiring mountains of gold to level and then DMs have to figure out what the players are going to spend it all on. Agreed, though. It does make cross compatibility with OSR systems harder.
I'd recommend just dividing the old modules gold amount by 10.
@@ToddPutnamthe way AD&D handles the wealth that characters can accumulate through adventuring is to implement training costs and upkeep. I do this in my OSE game and we are perpetually broke at early levels in our AD&D game.
“Not Innovative” is a HUUUGE red herring that butt hurt bros use constantly. It’s just sad. She has literally said “It’s just my version of D&D”. No game is perfect but Kelsey has a brilliant game design sense that comes through loud and clear in Shadowdark.
no problem, ill just wear shades, lol.
i hear SD is very bland and only good for dungeon running. but im sure theres some good ideas in there
The review talks about all that.
I could see someone saying "bland" if coming from a super hero RPG like 5e.
That is to say its bland IF you expect to:
1. min/max characters
2. have large amounts of crunch
3. have multiple actions, bonus actions and reactions on your turn
4. murder hobo everything in sight with no worry
th-cam.com/video/OUJJ1cWLQas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=vKPH_yyGPDeGj3NB
“Not Innovative” is a HUUUGE red herring that butt hurt bros use constantly. It’s just sad. She has literally said “It’s just my version of D&D”. No game is perfect but Kelsey has a brilliant game design sense that comes through loud and clear in Shadowdark.
I couldn't agree more. Everyone is free to love whatever system they enjoy most, but why folks need to make up fake reasons to hate on other systems.