I think your criticisms of flaws in beginner work is on target and I hope to use them as guides in the important stage of revising a poem. (I have written poetry and had a number of pieces published.)
I'm taking a creative writing class for fun now and poetry is the current topic. I am having such a hard time (50 year old engineer, last writing class 1994) coming up with a good poem. This should help!
this was very interesting, fun, and educational, thank you! i wrote this years ago, its still the first draft really, but i thought itd be fun to apply the tips from this to this piece. im just a hobby writer, and i dont write much anymore, but ill always love writing, and the safety it allowed me to have. when the idea of me started to take root did you think about tilling the earth removing the weeds could you even fathom the amount of work you would have to put into this garden i started to sprout and everything was new the sunshine the warmth the rain your blood sweat and tears all a culmination to help me grow you stood over me and i grew and grew outside of your shadow i became unruly and wild i wasnt the garden you had planned did that make me any less beautiful to you? it must have you left me to grow alone my roots sprawled to places i didn’t know existed my limbs reached towards the sunlight and here i remain, a completely different idea rooted but never fully realized because there’s always room for growth you taught me that so on first reread id prob change "and grew outside of your shadow" to "and grew outside your shadow" i think that flows a lil better. i think id remove "it must have" completely as well. its probably still one of my favorites ive ever written. it is very much a vent piece, and i think it captures multiple struggles youth may have with parents for whatever reason. to me, the point of this piece isnt so much the struggle, but how that struggle changes us, shows us we can be better, especially when you have examples of what not to do. anywho, thanks so much again for this vid. defo new sub.
Woah, I'm glad that you were able to use my tips to reflect on your writing! Thank you for sharing your poetry and a bit about your relationship with writing. This isn't a for sure plan, but I've considered doing a livestream where I critique poetry pieces, so if I do that, I'll remember this piece and let you know. :) Thanks for being here, seeya!
What an interesting, articulate and thoughtful essay. As a beginning poet of about a year, (or at least beginning to take the art form seriously), I have found much to reflect upon. Thank you.
Thank you! I’ve been writing poetry since I was a child. I found one of my old poetry notebooks from when I was 12 years old and reading through there’s a lot of promising lyric quality and creativity but it’s so… cringe. Definitely due to these points! I only wrote first drafts until I took a poetry class in college and learned about the revision process. Just the notes on replacing adjectives with imagery leveled up my poetry immensely. I’m wanting to do a masters program in poetry to help refine my skills more!
I'm glad that my video has been helpful for your revision process! It’s always fun to find old poetry. A masters program in poetry would be neat to pursue!
Point 3, Cohesion. This is the "kill your darlings" moment. I'm writing something now, and have this clever analogy hanging around in my head...but I just can't make it fit the whole poem. (sigh)
Hmm... If the parts are related, but don't quite work together in a single poem, maybe you could break it into a set of 2 or more poems, (an example that comes to mind is T.S. Eliot's Preludes). I do see poem sets quite often in contemporary literary journals, so it is still common. That would maybe require you to also further develop the analogy so that the parts are still related in some way, and may even deepen the reading to another dimension of interpretation. Otherwise, yeah, sometimes we just have to kill our darlings :C ahaha, anyways, good luck with whatever you decide!
hi, i just wanted to tell you how amazing this video is, i can really see all the love that you put on your channel, poetry and music. you really inspire me to create something beautiful and truthful, and that's amazing, thank you!
I feel like many of these points are so universal to good writing and it's sad how many writers for major entertainment industries either fail to hit these basic marks, or are told not to due to corporate and management influence.
New subscriber here. Great advice and I love the aesthetics. If I can make a suggestion, I think examples of poems that make the mistakes and ones that avoid them would be super helpful.
Watched this whole wonderful video from the point of view of a stand-up comic who makes some of these mistakes, who wants to sound authentic with a porpoise and a vision that others can relate to
It’s interpretive space that sometimes is tough for me! Working on an Arthurian cycle that I want to stand more as a larger metaphor for our current cultural moment. This was an excellent reminder!
Thanks for this video - really detailed look at what makes a poem tick! Looking to create my first collection, and the questions after each mistake will be a good rule of thumb as I write/edit :)
this is a pretty beautiful and helpful video, im gonna watch it again when im writing (im trying to learn to write songs lol) thank you for your work. also you are cute :)
Thank you for the thorough video. As someone who has made all five mistakes you go over in depth How do you feel about workshoping and the communitive aspect of poetry? I see a lot of benefits for getting feedback on writing especially for beginners to get a feel for the necessary language of the craft. Curious to know your perspective.
My pleasure! Hmm, I have been apart of workshops attached to classes and courses, and I think they are wonderful for beginning writers. It’s really a fast way to see how others experience your poetry, and if you are expressing yourself in the intended way. In my experience, others help you to see your weaknesses, and you’re able to solidify what you want to do with your writing. You just have to be able to gracefully take and give criticism, because writing is about sincerely expressing intimate emotions, thoughts, and ideas.
I've been writing since i was five and this is such an excellent video, i wholeheartedly agree with every point made and while watching this I could sometimes predict what you were going to say next due to the affinity of our ideas. It includes the most of the things that i'd say to any beginner! This is just a TH-cam video so i won't dwell too much into it, but i just wanted to tell you how much i appreciated this :)) PS: sorry if my english is not so good, my first language is italian
wrote a long comment but accidentally deleted it, oops. liked the video, been writing for a few years and i tend to write poetry as a coping mechanism / expression of emotion. made me consider the reader's perspective more as i usually only show my poetry to a few close friends. the video was a good refresher of the basics. i also still struggle with with the fact that not all the art i make will be good, haha. side note: i agree with the commenter that said that adding examples would be beneficial. i would also like to say that from a design perspective as well as personal one, the white chapter headings are a bit difficult to read. (a suggestion, if you would like, is to either darken the background or add an outline around the text) overall, i enjoyed the video and the amount of effort put into making it. subscribed! :3
ah, I'm glad that you were able to get some value out of the video. Thank you for being here, and also letting me know your thoughts on how I can improve my videos! Take care~
wow, I can’t imagine the hardship and heartbreak of losing the ability to talk for 2 years. But you kept going-you didn’t give up! Thank goodness that after all that time, you can talk again, it’s truly a blessing. Thank you for being here, and sharing a bit about your life.
@@ElisabethElmore- it is surreal - started alphabet, then Verbs, your film for 7 minutes takes me 3 hours, going back and over, back and over - it is complitated, but also cathartic, so, again, thank you.
i write song lyrics so im guilty of all these but maybe i have a pass? lol either way im gonna take this vid to heart because the way u describe writing here makes me rly excited to take mine to the next level :)
Ah, yes, there will be a little difference between the two. Nevertheless, I'm glad to hear this video has encouraged you to improve your craft, best of luck on future song writing!
Seen it Covered a lot good points It's one of those videos I will have to look at many more times Its that good Very good job thank you for the download and all your hard work
Elisabeth..i'm young poet from Russia, and i can't understand your poetry and your informative videos(poetry in first) so well like i want to understand it... Because it hurt me by some kind of beauty, it is one of some things that motivate my to learn English(sorry, i think now it's can be funny). Things you doing and your words help me feel myself not so lonely, somthing like that....like someone else in whole world work with this problems, try to make something beautiful and unbreakable, like Rumi and i Anyway, i can subscribe, maybe, it can help someone who understand it better to find it
Hello, wow, it’s so wonderful to hear from you! I’m grateful that you find value in my videos, and that my work can reach a part of you, despite the language barrier. I think it’s great that you are motivated to learn English. To hear that my words provide comfort to you, and makes you feel less alone, encourages me to keep going as well. Thank you for being here!
I strongly disagree with putting common themes under the category of cliché. A cliché is saying something in a way that’s been said before- not a theme that’s been addressed before. There are lots of successful, modern love poems- to disregard the majority is “cringe” simply for their subject matter is reductive.
A cliché is any overused expression or idea-- in which case, I do believe that themes can be cliché if they aren't approached in an interesting or new way. I wasn't saying those universal themes can't be written about, but rather that you have to approach them with freshness in order to not be boring. Hope that clears up the confusion.
Sure, I would be willing to give you some feedback on 1-2 poems if you would like! You can send your work to me via email: elisabethelmorebusiness at gmail I can give you notes within 2 weeks of receiving your writing.
The butterfly of orange wings lives in a leafy garden full of colourful flowers with bushes in every corner. She just decided to enjoy the sun and there forever she stayed.
Honestly this is so much word salad. I can see what you are trying to do, and it's worth doing, but sorry, just doesn't work for me. Some examples - from others' poems, and from your own to show how YOU deal with the points you make - would help, And what is it with this interest in tiresome, off-putting background music on You Tube videos?
I agree, I could be more concise in the future, but overall, I'm just a verbose person. This is how I think, and how I wrote my script. I provided questions instead of examples because I want people to critically think about their writing instead of me spoonfeeding them. Also, the music is from my folk album.
@@ElisabethElmore Wow...that was certainly beautiful as well as trippy ( original, unexpected ). I may have to jump down that rabbit hole. Zappa happened to be school friends with Don Van Vliet ( Captain Beefheart ) , and they influenced each other in various ways. Here is six minutes of Frank discussing this. th-cam.com/video/abifZoAgzB4/w-d-xo.html "Hmm, I don't know what that means." Surprise, neither do I. Or maybe, it's a jab at prose, commentary, and explanations , in general. AND...mid-way into their set that aired on German ( ? ) TV we get a shift in proportion between the typical heavy emphasis on music with lyrics thrown in , almost as an after-thought , to a full-on reading, recital, what have you, with musical embellishments. The song is "Golden Birdies" at minute 7:06 which I thought you might find interesting. Also, a few years before George Lucas created Obi-wan Kenobi for Star Wars Don proclaimed something or other about the Obi-man in the middle song. I doubt I'll have the chance to ask George if he was inspired in the name choice by Don's character. I'm curious , though. Also, I have no pretense to learning in the sphere of music, but I like things that people like Zappa like ( and sometimes top 40 crap, too ), so I guess that's something :)
please never remove this video from youtube. i'll keep returning to it to remind myself what makes a good poetry throughout my writing journey, lol :)
Sure thing, good luck!
ur setup is very cute. i just listened to some of your songs and ohmygod, they are so good!!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it :)
This is one of the few writing tip videos I’ve watched on TH-cam that actually provides worthwhile poetry writing tips. Thanks for making this video.
Wow, super useful video - I'm going to have all my poetry students watch this. Plus, I love how down to earth you are!
oh! That's wonderful to hear!
I think your criticisms of flaws in beginner work is on target and I hope to use them as guides in the important stage of revising a poem. (I have written poetry and had a number of pieces published.)
Wow, that’s great! I’m glad these points can be of use to you in your creative process. Best of luck with your revisions!
Really love this -- thanks so much for making it. It baffles me how hard it is to find technical, craft-based poetics stuff on here.
I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Thanks for sharing what you liked about it, that really helps me know what to keep in mind for future videos.
I'm taking a creative writing class for fun now and poetry is the current topic. I am having such a hard time (50 year old engineer, last writing class 1994) coming up with a good poem. This should help!
Oh wow, I'm glad that this video will be able to help you out, that's awesome!
You've covered so many points and this is so well articulated, thank you very much
Glad to hear it!
I like all of your pointers. Thank you for this video. I'm watching this again out of the pure pleasure of learning.
Aw, that's so kind of you! I'm glad that you're able to get something out of my video!
This has been incredibly helpful, a lot of these concepts i knew, but its how they applied to my mistakes that really helped things click.
That's awesome to hear, I'm glad you found the information useful!
this was very interesting, fun, and educational, thank you! i wrote this years ago, its still the first draft really, but i thought itd be fun to apply the tips from this to this piece. im just a hobby writer, and i dont write much anymore, but ill always love writing, and the safety it allowed me to have.
when the idea of me started to take root
did you think about tilling the earth
removing the weeds
could you even fathom the amount of work
you would have to put into this garden
i started to sprout and everything was new
the sunshine the warmth
the rain
your blood sweat and tears all a culmination
to help me grow
you stood over me and i grew
and grew outside of your shadow
i became unruly and wild
i wasnt the garden you had planned
did that make me any less beautiful to you?
it must have
you left me to grow
alone
my roots sprawled to places i didn’t know existed
my limbs reached towards the sunlight
and here i remain, a completely different idea rooted
but never fully realized
because there’s always room for growth
you taught me that
so on first reread id prob change "and grew outside of your shadow" to "and grew outside your shadow" i think that flows a lil better. i think id remove "it must have" completely as well. its probably still one of my favorites ive ever written. it is very much a vent piece, and i think it captures multiple struggles youth may have with parents for whatever reason. to me, the point of this piece isnt so much the struggle, but how that struggle changes us, shows us we can be better, especially when you have examples of what not to do. anywho, thanks so much again for this vid. defo new sub.
Woah, I'm glad that you were able to use my tips to reflect on your writing! Thank you for sharing your poetry and a bit about your relationship with writing.
This isn't a for sure plan, but I've considered doing a livestream where I critique poetry pieces, so if I do that, I'll remember this piece and let you know. :)
Thanks for being here, seeya!
What an interesting, articulate and thoughtful essay. As a beginning poet of about a year, (or at least beginning to take the art form seriously), I have found much to reflect upon. Thank you.
It's great to hear you found this video useful--thank you for telling me. Good luck with your creative ventures!
Thank you for sharing! This is great information, and you organized/articulated it quite well.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Really wonderful thoughts and concepts to ponder.
Thank you! I’ve been writing poetry since I was a child. I found one of my old poetry notebooks from when I was 12 years old and reading through there’s a lot of promising lyric quality and creativity but it’s so… cringe. Definitely due to these points! I only wrote first drafts until I took a poetry class in college and learned about the revision process. Just the notes on replacing adjectives with imagery leveled up my poetry immensely. I’m wanting to do a masters program in poetry to help refine my skills more!
I'm glad that my video has been helpful for your revision process! It’s always fun to find old poetry. A masters program in poetry would be neat to pursue!
Wonderful explanations.
Thank you.
Point 3, Cohesion. This is the "kill your darlings" moment. I'm writing something now, and have this clever analogy hanging around in my head...but I just can't make it fit the whole poem. (sigh)
Hmm...
If the parts are related, but don't quite work together in a single poem, maybe you could break it into a set of 2 or more poems, (an example that comes to mind is T.S. Eliot's Preludes). I do see poem sets quite often in contemporary literary journals, so it is still common. That would maybe require you to also further develop the analogy so that the parts are still related in some way, and may even deepen the reading to another dimension of interpretation.
Otherwise, yeah, sometimes we just have to kill our darlings :C
ahaha, anyways, good luck with whatever you decide!
I really appreciate this advice/perspective! Very helpful.
Glad to hear it!
The video is helpful, thank you! And the music sounds beautiful too.
Glad you found this video helpful, and thank you for your kind words!
hi, i just wanted to tell you how amazing this video is, i can really see all the love that you put on your channel, poetry and music. you really inspire me to create something beautiful and truthful, and that's amazing, thank you!
Aw, that's really wonderful! I'm so happy that my work can inspire you to create, there truly is no better compliment to hear than that~
I feel like many of these points are so universal to good writing and it's sad how many writers for major entertainment industries either fail to hit these basic marks, or are told not to due to corporate and management influence.
I agree, it can be quite disheartening.
New subscriber here. Great advice and I love the aesthetics. If I can make a suggestion, I think examples of poems that make the mistakes and ones that avoid them would be super helpful.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Thank you for the great suggestion, take care!
Great video! I'll be using these tips :)
Awesome!
Watched this whole wonderful video from the point of view of a stand-up comic who makes some of these mistakes, who wants to sound authentic with a porpoise and a vision that others can relate to
Woah, that's so cool! I'm glad you found a way to apply these tips to writing your stand-up routine, best of luck~
It’s interpretive space that sometimes is tough for me! Working on an Arthurian cycle that I want to stand more as a larger metaphor for our current cultural moment. This was an excellent reminder!
Oh, that sounds like a really interesting project!
Thank you! I have been getting into poetry and this helps so much💗
That's awesome to hear!!
Thanks for this video - really detailed look at what makes a poem tick! Looking to create my first collection, and the questions after each mistake will be a good rule of thumb as I write/edit :)
Oh my goodness! Congrats on starting your first collection, that's so exciting!! Good luck with the process :)
this is a pretty beautiful and helpful video, im gonna watch it again when im writing (im trying to learn to write songs lol) thank you for your work. also you are cute :)
I'm glad you found this video helpful, good luck with songwriting!
Thank you for the thorough video.
As someone who has made all five mistakes you go over in depth
How do you feel about workshoping and the communitive aspect of poetry? I see a lot of benefits for getting feedback on writing especially for beginners to get a feel for the necessary language of the craft. Curious to know your perspective.
My pleasure! Hmm, I have been apart of workshops attached to classes and courses, and I think they are wonderful for beginning writers. It’s really a fast way to see how others experience your poetry, and if you are expressing yourself in the intended way. In my experience, others help you to see your weaknesses, and you’re able to solidify what you want to do with your writing.
You just have to be able to gracefully take and give criticism, because writing is about sincerely expressing intimate emotions, thoughts, and ideas.
I've been writing since i was five and this is such an excellent video, i wholeheartedly agree with every point made and while watching this I could sometimes predict what you were going to say next due to the affinity of our ideas. It includes the most of the things that i'd say to any beginner! This is just a TH-cam video so i won't dwell too much into it, but i just wanted to tell you how much i appreciated this :))
PS: sorry if my english is not so good, my first language is italian
Hey, it's great to hear that this video resonated with you! I've been writing poetry since childhood too. :)
Take care!
Haven't we all 🤓
Great info. Just bought your poetry book on Etsy.
Thank you so much, that's greatly appreciated!
This was very helpful. Thank you.
I'm glad to help!
wrote a long comment but accidentally deleted it, oops. liked the video, been writing for a few years and i tend to write poetry as a coping mechanism / expression of emotion. made me consider the reader's perspective more as i usually only show my poetry to a few close friends. the video was a good refresher of the basics. i also still struggle with with the fact that not all the art i make will be good, haha.
side note: i agree with the commenter that said that adding examples would be beneficial. i would also like to say that from a design perspective as well as personal one, the white chapter headings are a bit difficult to read. (a suggestion, if you would like, is to either darken the background or add an outline around the text) overall, i enjoyed the video and the amount of effort put into making it. subscribed! :3
ah, I'm glad that you were able to get some value out of the video. Thank you for being here, and also letting me know your thoughts on how I can improve my videos! Take care~
As a English major student struggling understanding Poetry to writing my own.. Helpful video keep it uppp❤
I'm glad that you find this video helpful!
you are amazing...and i love your videos posts
I'm glad that you see value in my videos!
... thank you - Scottish for sure - r, and ch - got a Stroke but talk now after almost 2 years - poetry back then, poetry once more ...
wow, I can’t imagine the hardship and heartbreak of losing the ability to talk for 2 years. But you kept going-you didn’t give up! Thank goodness that after all that time, you can talk again, it’s truly a blessing.
Thank you for being here, and sharing a bit about your life.
@@ElisabethElmore- it is surreal - started alphabet, then Verbs, your film for 7 minutes takes me 3 hours, going back and over, back and over - it is complitated, but also cathartic, so, again, thank you.
I'm so glad you're able to use this video to your advantage. Take care!~
Thank you so much!
Glad I could help!
i write song lyrics so im guilty of all these but maybe i have a pass? lol either way im gonna take this vid to heart because the way u describe writing here makes me rly excited to take mine to the next level :)
Ah, yes, there will be a little difference between the two. Nevertheless, I'm glad to hear this video has encouraged you to improve your craft, best of luck on future song writing!
Seen it Covered a lot good points It's one of those videos I will have to look at many more times Its that good Very good job thank you for the download and all your hard work
a gem
thanks
can you make a video explaining how to get out of writers block? would love to hear your insight
Sure, I can talk about writer's block. I have some video's planned yet, so it will be out in about two weeks.
Elisabeth..i'm young poet from Russia, and i can't understand your poetry and your informative videos(poetry in first) so well like i want to understand it... Because it hurt me by some kind of beauty, it is one of some things that motivate my to learn English(sorry, i think now it's can be funny). Things you doing and your words help me feel myself not so lonely, somthing like that....like someone else in whole world work with this problems, try to make something beautiful and unbreakable, like Rumi and i
Anyway, i can subscribe, maybe, it can help someone who understand it better to find it
Hello, wow, it’s so wonderful to hear from you! I’m grateful that you find value in my videos, and that my work can reach a part of you, despite the language barrier. I think it’s great that you are motivated to learn English. To hear that my words provide comfort to you, and makes you feel less alone, encourages me to keep going as well. Thank you for being here!
This video would have benefited from examples from successful and unsuccessful poems for each of the five mistakes described.
Thank you, I'll keep that in mind for future videos.
Interesting.
Time traveler alert
how so
do I have a doppelgänger somewhere? ahaha
I strongly disagree with putting common themes under the category of cliché. A cliché is saying something in a way that’s been said before- not a theme that’s been addressed before. There are lots of successful, modern love poems- to disregard the majority is “cringe” simply for their subject matter is reductive.
A cliché is any overused expression or idea-- in which case, I do believe that themes can be cliché if they aren't approached in an interesting or new way. I wasn't saying those universal themes can't be written about, but rather that you have to approach them with freshness in order to not be boring. Hope that clears up the confusion.
Hello. VERY helpful video, but the background music is terribly distracting, as it's at times almost as loud as you are, Elizabeth.
Glad you found the video helpful, and thank you for the feedback about audio.
Are you open to proofreading poetry for tips? lol because I’m honestly looking for some real feedback
Sure, I would be willing to give you some feedback on 1-2 poems if you would like! You can send your work to me via email: elisabethelmorebusiness at gmail
I can give you notes within 2 weeks of receiving your writing.
@@ElisabethElmore That is a generous and impressive offer (be prepared for slush! 🙂)
@@spider2666 Please, for your own sake, find something of more value to fill your time with than being mean-spirited to strangers on the internet.
The butterfly of orange wings
lives in a leafy garden
full of colourful flowers
with bushes in every corner.
She just decided to enjoy the sun
and there forever she stayed.
thank you for sharing~
Your room is pretty sick
Thank you
Stupid me Did it again Put the reply in the wrong place Search the other replys I gave you a good review
ahaha, it's all good! Thank you for the support~
Clearly you don't trust language to make its points unaided - hence the intrusive music.
Gotcha, thanks for the feedback.
Your script is too long---
Cut out that flow'ry vocab---
Otherwise, great work.
Thank you for your feedback.
nice haiku
Honestly this is so much word salad. I can see what you are trying to do, and it's worth doing, but sorry, just doesn't work for me. Some examples - from others' poems, and from your own to show how YOU deal with the points you make - would help,
And what is it with this interest in tiresome, off-putting background music on You Tube videos?
I agree, I could be more concise in the future, but overall, I'm just a verbose person. This is how I think, and how I wrote my script. I provided questions instead of examples because I want people to critically think about their writing instead of me spoonfeeding them.
Also, the music is from my folk album.
Hey, glad you liked the video! Thanks for taking the time to be here.
Sush, Suki Singibus...th-cam.com/video/G0d0rsW9p3I/w-d-xo.html
Hmm, I don’t know what that means.
Also, I prefer Zappa
m.th-cam.com/video/qi37ziNab_g/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUVQ2hlbmdhcyByZXZlbmdlIHphcHBh
@@ElisabethElmore Wow...that was certainly beautiful as well as trippy ( original, unexpected ). I may have to jump down that rabbit hole.
Zappa happened to be school friends with Don Van Vliet ( Captain Beefheart ) , and they influenced each other in various ways. Here is six minutes of Frank discussing this. th-cam.com/video/abifZoAgzB4/w-d-xo.html
"Hmm, I don't know what that means."
Surprise, neither do I. Or maybe, it's a jab at prose, commentary, and explanations , in general. AND...mid-way into their set that aired on German ( ? ) TV we get a shift in proportion between the typical heavy emphasis on music with lyrics thrown in , almost as an after-thought , to a full-on reading, recital, what have you, with musical embellishments. The song is "Golden Birdies" at minute 7:06 which I thought you might find interesting.
Also, a few years before George Lucas created Obi-wan Kenobi for Star Wars Don proclaimed something or other about the Obi-man in the middle song. I doubt I'll have the chance to ask George if he was inspired in the name choice by Don's character. I'm curious , though. Also, I have no pretense to learning in the sphere of music, but I like things that people like Zappa like ( and sometimes top 40 crap, too ), so I guess that's something :)