00:01 Movement I - Presto I 01:45 Movement II - Die liederliche Gesellschaft von allerley Humor 02:32 Movement III - Presto II 03:20 Movement IV - Der Mars 04:27 Movement V - Presto III 06:02 Movement VI - Aria 09:53 Movement VII - Die Schlacht 10:36 Movement VIII - Lamento der Verwundten Musquetirer
@OrganicOrganist It's not even like tritones weren't used in medieval music, just check out Machaut who was literally hired by the church who supposedly banned the tritone. This myth was literally created by heavy metal bands purposefully misinterpreting a metaphorical quote by a BAROQUE and not even medieval composer and counterpoint teacher Johann Joseph Fux (pronounced fooks, not f*cks) in his famous Gradus ad Parnassum, a counterpoint book which, fun fact, is still used today. This misinterpretation was probably inspired by Saint-Saëns's famous danse macabre.
@rafexrafexowski4754 The tri-tone is a very special note and it's presence changes the music. It's 2 note duality is the same note. A composer would be required to work differently in a Lydian or locrian context that doesn't mix well with the typical "Major/Minor" key type of thinking and composition so the tri-tone is neglected in old music simply because people would focus on music that relies on more of a Ionian/Aeolian tonality than the other modes most of the time. Nothing was ever really off the table. The real belief was that the patterns not contained by the Ionian mode and it's contained modes emit evil vibes. So using different exoctic and alternate scales directly was not common practice and the belief has truth to it. This thinking doesn't include chord families that are not in a single scale so they use chord families not in a specific mode with different diatonic Major/Minor scale riffs over the chords as needed. Always a lot of emphasis on harmonies and voice leading.
Everybody talking about second movement but everyone forgets the fourthh, such a great movement not just for a unusual duo, violin and bass, but prepared bass even, which gives it a sort of war drum sonority. This whole piece is great.
In fact, the first movement is very interesting, and from the point of view of harmony is of incredible research, while the fourth is much simpler. However, I do agree that the fourth movement is great
@@amaurystorez1455 the last movement is stunning as well. what a rich and interesting composition - it baffles me that this composer has barely made it into the collective awareness of music lovers today, despite being an international rock star at his time. he even was elevated into nobility by the emperor due to his musical achievements.
Lance Hendrickson Polytonality typically refers to using keys that aren't derived from the same key (such as the dominant and tonic) at the same time, so pieces like fugues typically aren't classified as polytonal. If you listen to the second movement of this piece and then Bach, you'll hear the difference.
Dresden Boguslavsky Yes you did, but .... The title of that movement is "The dissolute society of all sorts," and the note in Latin at the bottom of the second page of the score says "Here all voices are at variance, as different songs are being roared out simultaneously"(in Susan Sontag's translation). Unlike a modern composer who might be trying to show that two or more tonalities might work well together, Biber is simply depicting musical (or unmusical) chaos. There's a 16th-century lute piece by Heinrich Neusidler called "Der Judentanz" that similarly uses different keys for the melody and accompaniment for an exotic effect. And of course there's William Billings' "Jargon" for four voices, uniformly dissonant from beginning to end, clearly intended to sound awful.
The awkward moment when you're listening to baroque and suddenly it goes post-tonal after the first movement, but nonetheless the second movement was fire, you should upload Carlo Gesualdo Tenebrae Responsories for Holy Saturday with the choral ensemble Tenebrae performing them, those have some compositional techniques way too out there for the renaissance era.
1:50 "cabbage and beats have driven me away, had my mother cooked meats perhaps I'd longer stay" in the third violin part. Bach also quotes this folk tune in Goldberg Variation #30.
Alright since everyone’s doing the “everyone’s talking about X, what about Y?” thing, I guess I’ll join in and point out the GORGEOUS and harmonically inventive final movement. And the first violinist blew the ornamentation out of the park. Simply perfect flourishes that feel like they were meant to be there and never take away from the beauty of the line, but add to it. Bravo!!! 👏🏻
Legend has it that Biber had built a time machine to time travel to the 20th century at some point in his life to write this piece, and then went back to the 17th century to premiere it.
Très belle page de la musique descriptive, cette 'batalla' nous révèle un spectre sonore inouï, avec ces changements de rythmes syncopés, alternant pizzicatos et autre tournures mélodiques, allant parfois jusqu'à la dissonance... qui relatent brillamment, les phases d'une bataille, dans une lumière dynamique, des ténèbres dans un calme inquiet... Jordi Savall, nous restitue avec chaleur et simplicité, ce chef d'oeuvre de Biber !
I imagine making any of these videos would be boring but I really appreciate the work. And now I have something new and really interesting to try to understand.
Has anyone noticed in the II movement, third violin? It's " Kraut und Rüben haben mich vertrieben", one of the themes of 30th Bach's Goldberg variation (quodlibet).
@@musik350 yep, but Biber made it so that initially it just sounds unusual, rather than immediately going for the kill and playing a bazillion clashing notes at once
@@oscargill423 Ives' use of polytonality has nothing to do with this, it's incomparable. You could perhaps compare it to some works by Darius Milhaud (études for piano and orchestra, fugue) or Szymanowsky (first string quartet, scherzo)
@@arielorthmann4061 Well I compared it so... comparable. Also Biber sought mimicked the sound of drunken sailors all singing in different keys at the same time... very much like Ives' style. Sure the stylistic features may be different, but the context is eerily similar.
It's using baroque tuning, which is about a semitone below modern tuning. Most modern tuning uses A4=440Hz, while many Baroque performers currently play at about A4=415Hz.
Everybody talking about how in the second movement Biber already knew that 20'th century music is joke... Well, no. The whole idea behind the joke is that some music in the era was simply written for different tuning on the strings, but not many people know these scores today, neither do I, cos I don't play any string instrument. But... Hahaha
Not accurate, according to all sources I could find the players are meant to be depicted as drunk, uncivilised and chaotic. No idea where you got your interpretation from.
The second movement! Just... wow... Avant garde is a new thing? Gyorgy ligeti was original? My ass!!!! Now i know that someone had those ideas 300 years before Ligeti and all those "avant garde" composers.
Ligeti and the rest of Darmstadt WHERE original, nothing even remotely similar has been written before or after. Contemporary classical has continued to develop by focus on completely different aesthetics
Saying that they're similar just because of dissonance or polytonality is ridiculous. Ligeti is a master of orchestration and unique textures and the way he calls for that by specifying the balance for each part makes his scores incredibly intricate
Biber's idea was different from Ligeti's though. Biber simply lets many tonal parts play together in different keys. The idea is that either different troups on the battlefield play simple, differently keyed melodies, or that the intonation is so bad that the key is unrecognizable. Ligeti achieves dissonance by forgoing traditional tonality completely, roughly speaking.
Yup, the second movement sounds like some twentieth century stuff (hello, Schnittke!). At least Biber was correct in recognizing such things are a joke and not worthy of hours and hours worth of exploration. The rest of this was dull as hell except for the somewhat bizarre chromatic line at the end (vi - IV7 - V - I ...???).
What church came along? No church told Bach, Beethoven or Liszt how to write music. The single intervention of the church in 1200 years of Western music history is the counter reformation, and even that did not stop protestants from writing chorals in german and certainly didn't make the music more formulaic than it already was. Not a big fan of the church; not a big fan of misinformation, either.
Unfortunately, only a philistine would wish someone's death simply because they do not like one movement of one piece they composed. Additionally, do note that Biber himself probably did not think this sounded great; it sounds like a rowdy pub with drunk singers, and that is what Biber went for.
00:01 Movement I - Presto I
01:45 Movement II - Die liederliche Gesellschaft von allerley Humor
02:32 Movement III - Presto II
03:20 Movement IV - Der Mars
04:27 Movement V - Presto III
06:02 Movement VI - Aria
09:53 Movement VII - Die Schlacht
10:36 Movement VIII - Lamento der Verwundten Musquetirer
I didn't expect a 1670s piece to use so many extended techniques
Creative composers were everywhere in all eras it seems, but almost never appreciated enough
@OrganicOrganist It's not even like tritones weren't used in medieval music, just check out Machaut who was literally hired by the church who supposedly banned the tritone. This myth was literally created by heavy metal bands purposefully misinterpreting a metaphorical quote by a BAROQUE and not even medieval composer and counterpoint teacher Johann Joseph Fux (pronounced fooks, not f*cks) in his famous Gradus ad Parnassum, a counterpoint book which, fun fact, is still used today. This misinterpretation was probably inspired by Saint-Saëns's famous danse macabre.
Try bach
Me neither
@rafexrafexowski4754 The tri-tone is a very special note and it's presence changes the music. It's 2 note duality is the same note. A composer would be required to work differently in a Lydian or locrian context that doesn't mix well with the typical "Major/Minor" key type of thinking and composition so the tri-tone is neglected in old music simply because people would focus on music that relies on more of a Ionian/Aeolian tonality than the other modes most of the time. Nothing was ever really off the table. The real belief was that the patterns not contained by the Ionian mode and it's contained modes emit evil vibes. So using different exoctic and alternate scales directly was not common practice and the belief has truth to it. This thinking doesn't include chord families that are not in a single scale so they use chord families not in a specific mode with different diatonic Major/Minor scale riffs over the chords as needed. Always a lot of emphasis on harmonies and voice leading.
Everybody talking about second movement but everyone forgets the fourthh, such a great movement not just for a unusual duo, violin and bass, but prepared bass even, which gives it a sort of war drum sonority.
This whole piece is great.
In fact, the first movement is very interesting, and from the point of view of harmony is of incredible research, while the fourth is much simpler. However, I do agree that the fourth movement is great
@@amaurystorez1455 the last movement is stunning as well. what a rich and interesting composition - it baffles me that this composer has barely made it into the collective awareness of music lovers today, despite being an international rock star at his time. he even was elevated into nobility by the emperor due to his musical achievements.
The repeated notes remind me of another piece after Mars- Holst's.
Wait, did I just hear polytonality in a piece from the 17th century? This is awesome
*cough* Bach *cough*
Lance Hendrickson I don't think Bach ever used polytonality.
See: Musical offering. C minor/ A minor.
Lance Hendrickson Polytonality typically refers to using keys that aren't derived from the same key (such as the dominant and tonic) at the same time, so pieces like fugues typically aren't classified as polytonal. If you listen to the second movement of this piece and then Bach, you'll hear the difference.
Dresden Boguslavsky Yes you did, but .... The title of that movement is "The dissolute society of all sorts," and the note in Latin at the bottom of the second page of the score says "Here all voices are at variance, as different songs are being roared out simultaneously"(in Susan Sontag's translation).
Unlike a modern composer who might be trying to show that two or more tonalities might work well together, Biber is simply depicting musical (or unmusical) chaos.
There's a 16th-century lute piece by Heinrich Neusidler called "Der Judentanz" that similarly uses different keys for the melody and accompaniment for an exotic effect. And of course there's William Billings' "Jargon" for four voices, uniformly dissonant from beginning to end, clearly intended to sound awful.
The awkward moment when you're listening to baroque and suddenly it goes post-tonal after the first movement, but nonetheless the second movement was fire, you should upload Carlo Gesualdo Tenebrae Responsories for Holy Saturday with the choral ensemble Tenebrae performing them, those have some compositional techniques way too out there for the renaissance era.
Yeah, third and fifth movements sound very post-tonal
1:50 "cabbage and beats have driven me away, had my mother cooked meats perhaps I'd longer stay" in the third violin part. Bach also quotes this folk tune in Goldberg Variation #30.
Très moderne ! Et la partie dissonante ! Incroyable pour du XVII siècle. Merci 🤩
I was expecting a Baroque version of "Love Yourself," but then I realized I had the wrong Biber/Bieber. This one is a lot better
Agree definitely
Alright since everyone’s doing the “everyone’s talking about X, what about Y?” thing, I guess I’ll join in and point out the GORGEOUS and harmonically inventive final movement. And the first violinist blew the ornamentation out of the park. Simply perfect flourishes that feel like they were meant to be there and never take away from the beauty of the line, but add to it. Bravo!!! 👏🏻
Legend has it that Biber had built a time machine to time travel to the 20th century at some point in his life to write this piece, and then went back to the 17th century to premiere it.
2:25 thats really spicy chord for 1673 xD
D minor triad on top of a E minor triad... love the prime dissonance between the 3rd violins and 2nd violas
Fantastic, unique masterwork and easy to play. A must for all string players
Très belle page de la musique descriptive, cette 'batalla' nous révèle un spectre sonore inouï, avec ces changements de rythmes syncopés, alternant pizzicatos et autre tournures mélodiques, allant parfois jusqu'à la dissonance... qui relatent brillamment, les phases d'une bataille, dans une lumière dynamique, des ténèbres dans un calme inquiet...
Jordi Savall, nous restitue avec chaleur et simplicité, ce chef d'oeuvre de Biber !
Bahaha, I was wondering why you put this up until the second movement came around! I was very pleasantly surprised!
Holy crap this was before Bach was even born !!
3:18 that is so cool!!
My favourite part!
これはかっこいい！！
One of the few great innovators of Eurocentric traditional music
Like coming across some strange Precambrian creature where everything was possible. The Aria was beautiful.
i lik muisc brain fell good
sir?
*I like baroque music because it makes my brain fells good.
@@sukarnos3xy * i liked this music, it made my brain feel good
@@SimonPiano42 Lmfao
ignore the replies, yours is the best phrasing
Its decided, i will mount it with my students soon!
Charles Ives did have a predecessor (2nd movement).
Seriously amazing music. I can see where Schnittke got so much of his inspiration from!
Die liederliche Gesellschaft von allerlei Humor, indeed!!!
What a fabulous 375th Birthday party you must be having with all those musical angels!!!
Having a great day and this only makes it better so far.
Happy 375th Birthday, Heinrich Ignaz Franz!!!
A perfect birthday Quodlibet Battaglia!!!
L'ho suonata anch'io la Battalia, che bei ricordi!❤️
So no one is gonna talk about the licc at 2:20
god truly has abandoned us
just realised 🤣
@@MatheusKulikno He didnt
The keyboards add so much to this piece!
the last chord on the 2nd movement is HAUNTING
the second movement sounds really contemporary and abstract...
+Arturo Alfaro Medina It's also the only reason I put this up. (Making this video was quite boring.)
They are supposed to be drunk
Why?
I imagine making any of these videos would be boring but I really appreciate the work. And now I have something new and really interesting to try to understand.
Cmaj 7 fuck off
Awesome!! And thank u for the transcription .
The repeated notes in the Mars movement reminds me of another movement of the same title: Holst's, from The Planets.
Has anyone noticed in the II movement, third violin? It's " Kraut und Rüben haben mich vertrieben", one of the themes of 30th Bach's Goldberg variation (quodlibet).
Well spotted! It makes sense. Bach, as did Biber, very intentionally used this funny folk song, the kind a soldier sing at the local tavern
Fantastic!!! And to have the score makes it still more fantastic!👍👍👍Thank You very much 🙏
The last movement is a really nice ending.
this is lunacy, but I still love it somehow
Simply amazing. Biber was a true artist, a craftsman, a revolutionary.
The solo violin in the 4th movement very closely resembles the same solo violin in Biber's "Sonata Representativa", the Musketeer's March part!
What a great piece
this really is unique and cool
2nd Movement described Chaos in a battle so well
i just can't believe this was written in the late 1600's
2:00 "Here it is all dissonant, just like drunks bellowing different songs"
01:45 Schnittke, is it you?
1:44 すげえ。。ジェズアルド以外にもオーパーツみたいな作曲家はいるのね〜😳 多調を超えて無調、というかむしろ、調号を書き損じて響きが偶然ぶっ壊れて、そのまま放置した感じがパンクで素敵。。(違) 特に最後の小節の和音2つは、解決する気がゼロで、すっげーポストモダン。
Much better polytonality than Mozart's Ein musikalischer Spaß finale
yes, because that's three goddamn chords.
Mozart made it sound bad on purpose
@@Vextrove so did Biber
@@musik350 yep, but Biber made it so that initially it just sounds unusual, rather than immediately going for the kill and playing a bazillion clashing notes at once
@@Vextrove well if the point was to make it sound bad on purpose, who really did that better??
I prefer this Biber than the other one
The second movement and the name Biber !
So the whole point is that it is supposed to sound like competing bands. "Battle of 10". That makes sense now.
here from The Music Professor
FYI: The second movement was supposed to represent a group of noisy drunks in a pub.
2nd has the "what's for dinner" energy
This is so insane. And real
Considering the brutality of war in that period and place it is strange that it was an inspiration to set it to music.
Satisfying
I simply love how the second movement literally predicted Charles Ives.
Charles Ives has nothing to do with this
@@arielorthmann4061 Disjunct polytonality much?
@@oscargill423 Ives' use of polytonality has nothing to do with this, it's incomparable. You could perhaps compare it to some works by Darius Milhaud (études for piano and orchestra, fugue) or Szymanowsky (first string quartet, scherzo)
@@arielorthmann4061 Well I compared it so... comparable. Also Biber sought mimicked the sound of drunken sailors all singing in different keys at the same time... very much like Ives' style. Sure the stylistic features may be different, but the context is eerily similar.
1:49 Quodlibet from Bach's Goldberg Variations
Darius Milhaud was a time-traveler!
The intonation is a semitone under the score!!!😱😱😱
It's using baroque tuning, which is about a semitone below modern tuning. Most modern tuning uses A4=440Hz, while many Baroque performers currently play at about A4=415Hz.
I wonder if this guy knew he'd have a descendant who'd get a million times more views for a millionth of his musicianship.
The 2nd movement sounds like something Ligeti would write.
Rather than Ligeti it would be Schnittke..
Whiskey. Tango. FOXTROT!
John Ladasky ...but so much better than Schoenberg, Stokhausen etc?
Everybody talking about how in the second movement Biber already knew that 20'th century music is joke... Well, no. The whole idea behind the joke is that some music in the era was simply written for different tuning on the strings, but not many people know these scores today, neither do I, cos I don't play any string instrument. But... Hahaha
Not accurate, according to all sources I could find the players are meant to be depicted as drunk, uncivilised and chaotic. No idea where you got your interpretation from.
@@rafexrafexowski4754 My comment was also meant a bit as a joke :)
We were told atonality was 20th century
I feel bad for baroque lovers who clicked on this randomly without going into the comments.
Isn't it the first use of col legno ?
So it’s true! Biber used polytonality way back in the 17th century.
10:47 ~ 11:00 sounds a lot like "Grandma" from the NieR ost
The second movement! Just... wow... Avant garde is a new thing? Gyorgy ligeti was original? My ass!!!! Now i know that someone had those ideas 300 years before Ligeti and all those "avant garde" composers.
Ligeti and the rest of Darmstadt WHERE original, nothing even remotely similar has been written before or after. Contemporary classical has continued to develop by focus on completely different aesthetics
what are you smoking, dude?
Saying that they're similar just because of dissonance or polytonality is ridiculous. Ligeti is a master of orchestration and unique textures and the way he calls for that by specifying the balance for each part makes his scores incredibly intricate
Biber's idea was different from Ligeti's though.
Biber simply lets many tonal parts play together in different keys.
The idea is that either different troups on the battlefield play simple, differently keyed melodies, or that the intonation is so bad that the key is unrecognizable.
Ligeti achieves dissonance by forgoing traditional tonality completely, roughly speaking.
@@Cleekschrey fresh tobacco from east india 😉😅😄😃 (16ths 17th century
Who’s here from Adam Neely’s video
I thought I was imagining all the polytonality until I read the comments 🤦😅
È veramente politonale, ho suonato anche io la Battaglia, tanto tempo fa 🙂👍
1:45 最初聴いたとき、おいおいマジかよ？！って思ったわ😂
Next time make sure the Violins and Violas play in the SAME KEY!
Is this a joke?
@@noo4449 Yes. it is a reference to adam neely
@@kochi3accordion What's with all this viola hate 😭? It's the oldest of the modern string instruments and deserves more love
@@rafexrafexowski4754 whoosh
@@kochi3accordion Viola jokes are not funny anymore, TwoSetViolin humor got really dry lately
Pretty disappointed to see nobody made a joke about Justin Bieber
Imagine if this was just transcripted incorrectly.
Literaly my grandpadr
Isn't this Battalia a 9? What is the difference?
Written by Justins gt gt gt gt gt grandfather?
E-11(b9)
Is this Schnittke?
No 😮🤪🥶🥶🥶🤓🧐😅🤣🙀🙀🙀🙀 it is from Heinrich Ignaz Franz (von) Biber.
Sounds Baroque/Renaissance...
2:23
Fun Fact: The Second Movement was supposed to represent drunkenness (no, i'm not kidding)
Musica programática barroca
Yup, the second movement sounds like some twentieth century stuff (hello, Schnittke!). At least Biber was correct in recognizing such things are a joke and not worthy of hours and hours worth of exploration. The rest of this was dull as hell except for the somewhat bizarre chromatic line at the end (vi - IV7 - V - I ...???).
There was a bunch of strange, experimental music written at this time and way before, but then the Church came along and...well.....you know....
Zed O'Haughy Nobody expects the spanish inquisition
What church came along? No church told Bach, Beethoven or Liszt how to write music. The single intervention of the church in 1200 years of Western music history is the counter reformation, and even that did not stop protestants from writing chorals in german and certainly didn't make the music more formulaic than it already was.
Not a big fan of the church; not a big fan of misinformation, either.
@@karlpoppins Excellent response to this silliness, thank you.
Gotta be honest: the second movement sounds bad.
1:45
Disgusting. Don't care about technicality, I hope he was hung for this travesty against music and musical instruments.
Hans Brackhaus
It's on purpose
Wait, have you ever heard 20th century music?
Unfortunately, only a philistine would wish someone's death simply because they do not like one movement of one piece they composed. Additionally, do note that Biber himself probably did not think this sounded great; it sounds like a rowdy pub with drunk singers, and that is what Biber went for.