I don't agree with your point on Abby. The point of the Last of Us story is that revenge will lead to violence and you will never be satisfied if you go down that path. Neither Ellie or Abby where "right" as they both end up with a bad end. Abby in this list feels like bait for comments...which I fell for.
Except Abby chose to break the cycle of violence, WAY before Ellie did. After the first justified kill, Abby was playing defense the entire time. Trying to move on.
@@Axowhatl She didn't choose to break the cycle. She got her goal and went "no longer my problem! I got what I wanted!" That ain't breaking the cycle. THe cycle is tid for tad. Abby having tid means the cycle is now waiting for the other to get tad. ALso "Justified Kill"? SHe just got saved by the guy she killed...
@@undertakernumberone1 That's so weird. You must have skipped an entire segment in a theater. That's too bad; it's really good. I recommend you check it out.
everyone keeps assuming the fireflies would have 100% found a cure when their own research shows they were basically guessing and could have easily killed ellie for nothing.
Agreed. Their understanding of medical science...well, science in general was dubious at best. They could have performed a biopsy on Ellie, which is what a doctor would have done (I asked a doctor when I went in for hypertension...I had no idea that HE had played the game as well). Keeping her alive while researching the possibilities would have been the intelligent thing to do. Instead, they went right for surgery...LETHAL surgery instead of gathering samples and doing the work to see if they could create some form of cure through samples, which is how vaccine research works. I REALLY don't get how that choice can be defended. 'Cause if the surgeon was actually competent he would have followed protocols and taken his time. Ellie wasn't in any immediate danger, so they could have taken their time. Instead, they rushed to butcher her, and intentionally antagonised her guardian. Too Dumb To Live should have been printed on their shirts...
@@thedarkstarr11The Fireflies demonstrated that they clearly had no idea what they were doing, and their “medical professionals” came off more as snake oil salesmen than actual doctors.
@@thedarkstarr11 A vaccine for a fungal infection... already questionable. Then, you can find some logs, which always went "no positive results." It's so bad that Druckman iirc went "Oh, it totally would'Ve worke!" in interviews or something... which should tell you how badly written that was iwth the transition to TLOU2, and that that clearly was just to give our new guys a pretention of having the moral high groud.
I believe there's in-game evidence or extra lore around that shows Ellie wasn't the only one immune. They'd tried the surgery before and never had any success.
Fr tho, saying Abby was 'right' misses the point of the game, in which violence benefits no one and only prolongs the trauma those who participate and are victims of it suffer from. The fact that the minute Abby's pov starts and is clear she isn't exactly 'liberated' after killing Joel and actually feels worse should make it quick obvious that the whole 'Joel deserved to die,' take has no backing even from the lense of the game that appears to be critiquing him 😊
Honestly the event they choose to embody the game's theme is so scuffed it ruins the argument. Because they wanted joel to be inception of the cycle of violence for abby who then transferred it to ellie and so on and so forth but they choose perhaps the worst event to make that claim and that being joel reacting to an injustice put on to him and completely ignoring the fault and responsibility on the fireflies part. If they did everything they could to show Joel their points, gave him and Ellie time alone to grieve and process this, get their affairs in order and joel still acted the way he did that would have been much better for their theme putting the act of violence squarely on joel's shoulders. Of course that's out of character for him in part 1 so that is why he doesn't do it. So as is a much more mature path should have been to recognize the responsibility joel has in killing abby's dad, but responsibility the fire flies had in trying to kill a girl without her consent essentially, and recognize the responsibility of their my leaders for not entertaining the idea of making allies not enemies when they could and thus not lead them to be desperate enough to piss off the wrong dad with the right girl, and so on and so forth. Like actually put the work to show the chain of violence being both larger than one person cascade of wrongs made up of individual wrongs by many people. Basically acknowledging there was a reason behind them and that if you continue the chain you're not better than or worse than the next person. But you're still responsible. Bit of a first draft but I hope it basically conveyed that the game could have had a really good and mature message but it sort of wasted it in execution
She was right in her eyes, when some bearded psychopath murdered her father and a bunch of her friends and doctors to save one kid. The second Joel did that, he was marked for death
Yes, because Joel saving a life and doing it in a quick clean way makes brutal torture, while making the person he saved watch, justified. That is why reasonable people can never get behind her. The revenge she got was done in a more demented, evil way than anything else in the entire first or second game. Also this list is saying that perpetuating the cycle of violence is "right" with her inclusion. She is clearly just there to drive engagement, like her being the thumbnail.
If i remember correctly, Abbynator had no problem sacrificing Elie to get the serum so how can she get mad that Joel killed her father to protect Elie?
Except that's not how fungal diseases work there was no cure in Ellie's blood that was a pipe dream by a bunch of desperate and delusional fireflies @@lemaygaming6952
@@lemaygaming6952 Bro even Abby's father didn't know if it would work or not. He was all fine cutting open an innocent girl like a fucking maniac and Abby saying she would have done it, does not matter
Abby wasn't right about anything, because there was never a guarantee a cure could be derived from Ellie's sacrifice. So Abby's dad would've just been another murderer.
I have always thought Joel did the right thing in The Last of Us. I don't understand how any doctor or scientist would decide the first thing to do is kill the only immune person. There are SO many non-lethal tests that you could do first! Now he was in the wrong for lying to Ellie about it, but I stand by his decision to not let her die.
First look: Oh boy abby on the thumbnail can't wait to hear this. After the video: nope not convinced. Abby was not right. At the very least not more right than joel for what she was doing. trying to stop a bunch of people from killing a girl who they had denied the chance to consent to a life ending surgery is the "by any means nessecery" type of wrong that often is used to justify any wrong just because it might have good intentions. Then couple this with the fact abby never seeks to understand why her dad was killed makes her very villainous as she is essentially trying to excuse her own father's actions that put him in that situation in the first place. Remember they choose to proceed on a dangerous life ending procedure to operate on a young girl who was just beginning to find reason to enjoy life again with out even giving her the chance to get her affiars in order because she "might" say no. You can appeal to all the potential people who that could have saved all you wanted, but that is neither joel's responsibility nor his concern. Likewise, abby is right to seek out vengence because that is still her dad afterall and she loved him, but she wasn't seeking justice meaning that she wasn't holding her own dad's legacy accountable for what he was participating in meaning that she is no more virtuous than joel and in many ways is worse.
That whole game was a lot of everyone going way too far out of their way for revenge, and I can't believe any player was truly invested in moving those objectives forward like they were in the first game.
Solas is the one who made the veil to banish the other elven gods from Thedas. They killed Mythal, “ a crime for which an eternity of torment, is the only fitting punishment”, according to Solas. That was the final straw and he created the Veil.
Him tearing it down is still the right thing to do going by the lore as shown in Veilguard. They got the reason wrong, but he's still doing the right thing to stop a greater evil.
Want a good take on why abby is such a horrible character. Go watch the fiery jokers video on it. He is someone that hates joel for what he did in the first game but would go on to say how much worse abby actually is than joel
Like the funny thing is, Joel got a fair end for the character's past misdeeds. It's just that no one likes a VERY forced Mary Sue like Abby where the writing has to beat you over the head repeatedly to stress how great and morally unimpeachable she is, while ALSO turning the prior game's beloved secondary lead into a miserable psychopath. It's just a trash formula made to piss people off on how garbage and telegraphed it is.
Perhaps it's my age, but I don't understand what you find so unlikable about her. She was WAY more likeable than Ellie. Is it because she was a strong woman with muscles?
@@Axowhatl nah, man on that last part, trust me you need to know more people if you haven't even heard of the crush watermelon meme, but no Abby could be considered unlikeable because at her core she is an antagonist to the previous main characters without her seeking their perspective and she comes off as a hypocrite without self awareness. and although she has traits like fear of heights, strong ties to people, friends, and love of animals, that's not really all that unique nor different from plenty of other people. everyone has their insecurities, their loved ones, and quirks that make them special but what really draws people to a character is what's a bit underneath when the going get tough or when their morals are threatened to compromised how do they react then? and for most people that doesn't feel resolved. She killed her father's killer yet her father's killer was a nice guy who helped an entire town and had a daughter too. yet we never see her remorseful or haunted by that choice she just moves on from it. that feels a bit hollow considering how otherwise normal she is. There are numerous revenge stories where the hero is out to kill even worse people than joel and yet they still have the act of venge weigh heavy on their heart. there's half a story missing from Abby
@@crisgit_gWhat begins? I see both sides to the last of us 2 argument. I’m kind of in both camps. The first one was a 10/10, part 2 was an 8/10. Just the abbey section felt a bit too long and monotonous.
@@justaguy7230 they mean the list of comments coming your way, let's entertain them in a respectfully manner shall we? Yeah i can see both sides of the argument too and that's what is the start of a really cool discussuin/message issue was that the game had a clear side it took and it only defended Abby not provided reasonable counter to what she did, and thus it sort of is trying to make the decision for the player instead of the players coming to one themselves. A good example of this is that Abby never figures out why joel killed her dad. Abby's dad was in the wrong for doing a life ending operation n a girl without her consent, without giving her warning and without at least trying to wait for her to be able to gain awareness to give consent. They then barred her guadien from seeing her, and didn't leave him one final chance to say good bye and constantly antagonisted him every step of the way when he was dangeriously approaching protective status mood. On the other hand, joel killed every single firefly in a life or death engagement however didn't spare Abby's dad even though he had only a melee weapon. now my memory of the exact events are spotty but i do recall that while joel could have subdued him in a way that didn't ensure his death that is only a luxury if the doctor didn't make things difficult and i think the doctor, not surrendering, not moving away from ellie or putting his scapel down, ensured his death. Now years later when Abby kills joel in revenge which is fair she loved her dad, she never acknowledges the complexity of the situation considering joel was a decent guy in the eyes of everyone else, had a daughter, and a family, and her dad had wronged joel ad ellie, it makes her harder to root for. as she's not seeking justice she is seeking just revenge for the wrong reason. which is fair but if the story wants her to be more than just the villain which the story does, its not exactly the best way to characterize her. it essentially is saying she pretty cold and cruel to those who wronged her without compromise, is unable to see nuisance, and is a hypocrite considering she by all means just became the exact same type of monster she thinks joel was. and then has the nerve to get angry at ellie for involving her friends in her own murder quest and exposing them to danger. In short the story makes a stance in favor of Abby but shows that Abby doesn't deserve such a defense. So do think crisgit_g would find this comment enjoyable?
sure Joel killed Abby's father and other Firefly members but how many people did Firefly kill in trying to find a cure? Killing Elie doesn't guarantee a cure
Ross was trash. Yes he used an ex-bad guy to capture/kill all his bad guy friends. But he made an agreement with John that he immediately went back on, and also took his family hostage with the threat of death if he didn't cooperate. Now Abigail was a part of the Van Der Linde Gang, but the only person she ever killed was Milton, who took her hostage and was about to kill Arthur right in front of her. Something Ross never knew so he had no excuse. And Jack was 100% innocent.
saying Abby was right is crazy because you dont have the choice but to kill that doctor (who tbh i think was retconned to be abbys father) in a brutal way as even if you shot him in the foot, he'd keel over dead. Plus, it wasnt a guarantee the fireflies would have made a cure. Neither her nor Ellie were right in their rampages, even tho you understood the reason why they went on them. But if you say Abby was right, then so was Ellie.
Okay, don't tell me Abby was 'right' to kill Joel! The FIreflies were never good guys, and Ellie wasn't even they first try to make a vaccine. Plus I didn't get too attached to her dad for being painfully nice to animals!
5:35 The Veil wasn't made by the other elven deities for oppression, it was made by Solas to imprison them (as relayed by Dalish lore) for their betrayal of Mythal. Doing this, however, tore Arlathan apart, which is why there are elven ruins in both Thedas and the Fade. They are two halves of the empire, split apart by Solas creating the Veil. Solas is trying to "undo" his mistake by tearing the Veil down and returning the world to "normal." The DLC also shows that Sandal (Enchantment!) is older than the Veil, as one of his diaries can be found in the Fade among the elven ruins.
I think the best villains are the ones you can understand. Even if you don't agree with their methods, if you can relate to why they are doing what they're doing, it makes them far more interesting than some cliche evil-for-the-sake-of-evil trope.
Ulyssues was wrong. A Courier is payed to deliver the package and NOT see what's inside that's literally their job. ......also a slaver's culture need not be protected. Ulysseus just has a PhD in Yappology that's all.
Plus, his chances of success are pretty slim. Handing him the crown may seem like insanity, but all he is going to do is get all of the other Archdevils to unite against him. I mean, if Mephistoheles wasn't going to use it to overthrow Asmodeus, that should tell you something. Most likely, he's going to cause some trouble, then he's going to get stomped into oblivion by Daddy. Afterwards, the Crown is going right back into the Vault. Even with that power boost, Raphael isn't going to win in the end. Though, have to admit, breaking into the House of Hope, and then taunting him with his 'performance' is enough of a reason to screw him over.
I love a good villain storyline but sometimes they are just the worst and want to do the worst things good list really enjoyed it 🎮👏 some of them are so fun to kill off or even play love gaming as the villain 🖤
While I agree Logan was right in how he aggressively prepared Albion for the Crawler, there was no excuse for making you choose between killing your lover or the leaders of a simple protest against his tyranny.
Not even going to watch this one but had to comment. Title of video game villains that were right along with a thumbnail of Abby automatically negates the premise.
Carlito is definitely not in the right for unleashing a zombie plague. To bring awareness to what happened in his city,knowing damn well the consequences. Also ross is not right either,because John left that life along time ago to be a family man. Now if he kept his promise,to john then you can argue that both are good guys. Having not played 2,some of the context of abby as a whole is lost on me lol. But that cure was not a guarantee,it was a shot in dark. Joel was wrong to,but just like with carlito 2 wrongs not going to make it right lol.
I won't lie i almost did that myself but I had to force myself to listen first. Glad i did, i could have been wrong and blasted them for having a good point but i took the time to understand their perspective. Ironically enough the very least abby could have done
@@jayfkay82 no its not that simply. they still would need Abby and her dad to be decent characters. fact is all the dislike stems from the fact that Abby's dad was complacent in trying to kill an unconscious girl in a surgery she didn't consent to while the guy who stepped into the role of being her dad, does what ever he can to save her life. and to make matters worse its not like joel is trying to save his daughter replacement, no he gineunely is doing it out of concern for ellie's well being as a person, so its goes against normal morals to see someone who died trying to protect a loved one be so poorly treated. Fact of the matter is abby's dad did a bad thing, and now abby's not only not acknowledging her dad was also in the wrong, she's committing another wrong, putting ellie through the same thing she went through. Now abby's a hypocrite thanks to the story not allowing her depth.
People didn't hate Abby for "being right". People hated Abby for being a lazy sloppily written Mary Sue, who had to trample over the corpses and characterization of the good game's 2 leads, all for the laziest most predictable "shock twist" of "omg she's so good and morally perfect!". Trash writing for a trash game which came at the expense of the story and characters of a MUCH better original game. Edit: I ain't even mad about Joel. Bad stuff catching up to a guy who did bad stuff, sucks but happens. I don't even hate Abby at face value. I just hate bad writing and what it did to Ellie for a sequel that wasn't wanted by anyone with even a lick of common sense, so that some scrub can pat himself on the back for how "clever" his "twist" was.
Fact is, Joel could done THE MOST selfish things, fact is it's all relatable... Abby was forced on us. Where WHAT would have worked, if she got a moment LIKE THE SHOW with the brothers, where roaming with them, she'd get
I just couldn't do anything but hate her... written differently maybe. But she killed Joel brutally infront of Ellie. The character we got attached to and loved. Than they are like "feel sorry for the person that killed her and now play with her." And that's just one of the many problems I have with Abby.
If you think Abby is justified in killing Joel, then you miss the entire point of the game, which is the futility of revenge and that violence only begets more violence. Is it UNDERSTANDABLE that Abby killed Joel. Yeah, of course it is. Once you learn her story, her actions go from seemingly random and senseless to absolutely making sense. However... understandable and justifiable are worlds apart. She wasn't justified in killing Joel, and she wasn't right to kill him. Killing Joel doesn't bring her father back, nor does it give humanity the vaccine that her father was hoping to develop. In the end, all that violence and revenge was for nothing.
@@Juggtacula Well, that's pretty much one of those: 'Little did we know' moments & that choice/ending did actually catch players off guard. But that would be an understatement. Reason I said Pagan Min for 2 reasons: A. One of his soldiers executed a Civilian when being given the order to stop the bus & the people inside alive. He never knew until he was given the answer. B: His relationship with the Main Protagonist & the Blood Relation as well as he wanted the protagonist to actually become the new Leader of Kyrat, when given the full truth that Pagan Min really wasn't the Villain all along, player's jaws dropped [Luckily there was a secret ending in the beginning of the game]
I see a few of these comments about abby, as far as im concerned if you think abby Anderson was not justified than ellie is also not, they both lost the same man in their lives, i dont see many people applying the same reasoning to ellie
Higgs in Death Stranding. The 6th extinction is clearly inevitable at some point so he is trying to simply speed up the process and end everyone's suffering in a ravaged, broken, terrifying world, even though Amelia is reluctant to fulfil her destiny as the extinction entity.
Dormin from Shadow of the Colossus. Told Wander that he could revive Mono in exchange for killing the 16 Colossi and then warned him that there is a consequence should he succeed in doing so. At the end of the game Dormin took control of Wander which was the consequence but, he fulfilled his end of the bargain by reviving Mono. Wander agree to the terms but, Dormin got a lot of hate because people said he manipulated Wander which he technically didn't.
Making someone agree to something without knowing exactly what they're agreeing to, by dangling a near-impossible choice at them, is absolutely manipulation. It's very heavy-handed manipulation, and could probably be accurately described as extortion, but still.
Here's my issue with TLOU2: It was never the content in regards to a character or story decisions, it was always the ORDER of events. I hated the flashbacks to flashforwards it would get me confused on where the heck I was in the story.
God you love rage baiting with Abby, granted you won because im here commenting on how she was not right, hell Senator Armstrong was more right than her.
I didn't hate Abby at all, I loved her story and ended up hating Eliie's guts for going on a horrible murder spree throughout the game. She lived long enough to become the villain. Abby killed one guy with reasonable justification and her group left Ellie and Tommy alive proving they aren't "bad" people. Ellie killed hundreds in her path and let the one person she wanted to kill live. Now THAT is an atrocity. Such a waste of time and lives.
I never thought i would ever this, but you let me down today Jules... For someone who makes a point in every video to help out people, to tell them hang in there, to not give up etc (and also because of your own personal history), you tell us that Abby should be in a video where "the villain was right all along"???? There is no heroes on that game only villains... Everyone is a killer and do what they must to survive... Abby killed Joel with cruelty, not mercifully, she made sure he suffered first and it was not because Joel made the selfies choice of not delivering the cure; she did because he killed her dad! I am truly in horror to hear all of your words about that entry, you really REALLY let me down today... Guess we can't put anyone in a pedestal because they just end up disappointing you somehow...
4 years after it's release and the last of us part 2 still blows up the comments section by far lol, it shows how well done and impactful the game really was.
If Abbey was justified in killing Joel, then Ellie is more than justified in killing Abbey And the washington liberation front is just as Bad as a raider gang in fallout
Abby was worse than Kratos in the Greek God of War saga. He at least didn't make excuses and wanted vengeance and slaughter. He didn't care about anyone or anything until he met Pandora herself.
So in Abby's case can understand her revenge, but her father wasn't in the right, nor was she. She killed someone for her personal gain, she was also a horrible friend and selfish, sorry but people hated her for the right reason, (although I don't agree with the Va's getting hatred for that character). If someone likes her it's fine but there's legit valid reason for the hate towards her.😂
*clears throat* joel was a monster, and him dying for his crimes was inevitable... just because he did it for a good reason doesnt redeem him for killing tons of innocent people. that's not how accountability works.
Abby is the antagonist in the context of LOU2 story but if we had been following her journey and that of her dads they’d be the protagonists. That’s one reason why LOU world is interesting: it’s not a simple black/white world. 3 thing make Abby the villian in LOU2: 1. Killing Joel after he’d saved her life. 2. Willing to kill Dina despite knowing she’s pregnant. 2 1/2. Sleeping with Owen despite him being with the other girl. That’s a half cause it was consensual.
I would add 2 more things to that list, 4 abby becoming a hypocrite killing a girls dad right in front of her. And 5 probably the biggest thing for me: her not understanding why joel did what he did. She never shows nor demonstrates that her father and the fireflies were in the wrong trying to operate on a patient without permission. Even if it will save the world that's not the fireflies, the doctor's or Marlene's sacrifice its Ellies and her call to make. At the very least she should be given the right to make it not have it be made for her. If Abby still did what she did and acknowledged her dad made a huge mistake agreeing to kill ellie, i would honestly find her a much better character
@@jessedellross3245 That is not an excuse for killing somebody. She still intended to kill everyone involved with Joel's murder. She even killed their dog who was defending them. She was the intruder that broke in and tried to harm them.
@@TheOmegaDragon AGAIN the dog attacked her and she defended herself. The woman was trying to stab her with a knife. What was she supposed to do let her? She wanted to take revenge on those who hurt her and yeah that’s messed up. But like it’s explained in the game, she’s lost her way and is driven by revenge. But even she has her limits and it was killing the pregnant woman. Ellie abandons her revenge your right after proving how much it shook her. Abby finds out Dina is pregnant…..and fully intended on killing her. See the difference?
Incorrect, Abby is unequivocally the hero. She slew the greatest evil in the TLOU universe. Her only mistake was not making Joel suffer WAY more. Ellie is the villain. Went out and killed all but one member of the hero faction to avenge the bad guy.
Perspective is such a funny thing. You could easily apply this in the reverse. ELLIE IS UNEQUIVOCALLY THE HERO. She avenged her caretaker who was murdered after slaying all the evil doctors and revolutionist who had tricked her and were going to kill her in her sleep without even giving her a chance to say good bye. Then as she killed all those evil women and men one by one she decided to let abby live just so that she didn't because just like her a caretaker taker. Her only mistake was not making abby feel guilty enough for killing joel, ellie's dad, before they sailed off Take care friend
I’ve always found it so incredibly stupid that so many people hate TLOU 2 because of what Abby does to Joel. As if none of the other characters are allowed to have motives. Such a weak reason to criticize the game.
More so execution. People hate what Abby did because it was an injustice. She wanted to kill Joel because joel killed her dad, ok simple fair enough. Did she ever find out why joel killed her dad tho? Well not really. Does she feel like a hypocrite for killing a girls dad right in front of her? Well no. Does she even question if joel is so evil if he has a family and even saved her? No... Does Abby even realize how much danger she put all her friends and family in because she not only let Ellie live she also let her see all of their faces. After all abby had less information on joel and she managed to kill him. Who is to say the same thing won't happen to all these people who you roped into a revenge quest and not even ensure their own safety. Not even once considered. People are upset because it feels like a double standard in abby's favor and how cold and inhuman her reactions to really normal stuff is. She doesn't need to forgive joel or display feelings of remorse. But if you want her to be more than just a bad guy in the eyes of people you have to make her act appropriately in the ideas of traditionally virtue. She feels bad because she feels guilty. Meaning she has a good heart. She goes off on her own to handle revenge on her own to prevent others from getting hurt, and she hesitates and is conflicted because she doesn't feel right about putting someone else through her trauma. If all of this was shown from abby i bet you a lot of people would have taken to her better. Not everyone because frankly gamers hate having to kill the main character of the previous entry or playing their killer, but you would have at least had a genuinely more sympathetic and "human" character to play as
I honestly believe Abby is the true hero in The Last of Us Part II, and it’s about time we stop glorifying Joel. Joel is a selfish man who took away Ellie’s right to make a choice about her immunity. Ellie wanted to do something good for the world. She didn’t know the full extent-sure, she thought it might just be about drawing some blood-but she was ready to make a sacrifice to help find a cure for the Cordyceps virus. Joel took that away from her, stole her right to choose, and then he lied to her for years about it. He didn’t care about humanity; he cared about what he wanted. And we can’t forget the cost of Joel’s actions. The doctor who was supposed to perform the surgery to create the cure? That was Abby’s father. Joel murdered him, ripping Abby’s life apart. So when Abby finally tracks Joel down and kills him in the second game, yes, it’s brutal, but it’s understandable. Joel needed to die. He wasn't a hero-far from it. In the first game, Joel admits that he’s played ‘both sides,’ meaning he was a dangerous and cruel person in the early outbreak. He wasn’t some virtuous protector, and he didn’t deserve a noble send-off like Wolverine or some tragic hero. He was a flawed man who paid the price for his actions. Abby, though? After killing Joel, she spares Ellie and Tommy. She lets them go. And how do Ellie and Tommy repay that mercy? They hunt down and slaughter every last one of Abby’s friends, leaving her utterly alone. Imagine that-your father is murdered, then all of your friends are hunted down and killed by the very people you showed kindness to. Abby loses everything, and still, she’s the one being painted as the villain by some players. Even after Ellie has killed all of her friends, Abby spares her again. When Abby tracks Ellie to the theater in Seattle, she still lets her go. Abby shows Ellie mercy twice. And what does Ellie do with that? She obsessively tracks Abby down to the Santa Barbara Firefly base, ready to kill her. Abby has every reason to kill Ellie, but in the end, Ellie is the one who can’t let go of the past, who’s consumed by vengeance. Abby, despite everything, is the one who tries to move on. Joel deserved to die. Ellie’s spiral into revenge only proves that Abby is the stronger, better person. If anyone’s the real hero in this story, it’s Abby.
Yes, because Abby's Dad was a hero... He wasn't he was a butcher, he had already killed several other "immune" before the surgery was supposed to happen...
@@TheAdypoker He killed several people in an attempt to make a cure to save millions. Joel killed more people going through that hospital than that doctor did looking for a cure.
@@TheAdypoker There's no actual evidence in The Last of Us that Abby’s father had killed any other immune individuals before Ellie. That’s pure speculation and not supported by the game’s narrative. The Fireflies may have been desperate for a cure, but the story only focuses on Ellie’s situation-there’s nothing to suggest that Abby’s dad was some kind of ‘butcher.’ What we do know for sure is that Joel selfishly took away Ellie’s right to choose, murdered Abby’s father, and lied to Ellie for years about it. Abby’s motivations are rooted in avenging her father’s death, which was an understandable reaction to the extreme loss she experienced. The idea that Joel should be seen as the hero here is just as flawed as painting Abby as the villain. It’s easy to demonize Abby when people conveniently forget that Joel wasn’t some moral savior either.
I'm sorry to say this, but it was the fireflies that took ellie's right to consent away, not joel. as the fire flies were going to operate on ellie in her sleep. ellie this whole time was willing to go through the procedure thinking she would be subjected to just a simple medical test or exam. point is she thought she would live afterword. She never knew she would die from what the fireflies were going to do. And then there's the fact that she would have woken up eventually as shown in the ending, but they didn't wait they prepped her surgery regardless. all while not giving her a chance to get her affairs in order and say good bye to joel and likewise for joel to say good bye to ellie because, yes joel is a person he still would want to connect with his loved ones. This line of thinking is the same ones used to justify atrocities for the good they might lead but for centuries we have debated about how the ends don't justify the means the fireflies were wrong for thinking that the means meant they were free from retribution. The cure would have been a vaccine, so only inoculating those before infections all the infected would still be a lost cause so that would mean that all the people who trusted and could reach the fireflies would have benefited from the vaccine which is not many considering how low the reputation of the fireflies were at this point and time and the fact that they never once seemed to have a sure-fire way to reproduce the vaccine if it was successful since they only have one infection immune brain to work with. so supplies are vastly limited. Abby seeking revenge is fair enough, she loves her dad after all but her not thinking that ellie wouldn't want revenge is very arrogant, entitled and foolish. after all didn't Abby want revenge for a man killing her dad? Why would she think ellie would be any different, especially in a world as harsh as the one she is living where almost anyone alive at this point is a potential combatant. So Abby was only endangering her friends by allowing ellie to not only live, but also live after knowing all the people who took part in joel's murder. And to kill joel in front of ellie just makes her ironically worse than joel. she's a hypocrite for putting another woman through the same pain she went through and for doing it without explaining her reasoning to ellie. almost ensuring that ellie would take revenge on her friends. Abby almost refuses to take responsibility for her actions in killing joel and hopes that she can escape the fallout by letting ellie live and to a degree by not even trying to understand why joel went on a massacre resulting in her dad's death to begin with. And because of this she allowed her ghost to haunt her life but never tries to find a permanent end for if not her safety for at least the safety of those around her. The line between noble and foolishness is thin, and due to the game's depictions of Abby's actions, it did her no favors. Honestly, she deserved a better story. just like everyone in last of us part 2
@@sab3redg333 While I agree that the Fireflies should have communicated better with Ellie, it doesn't absolve Joel of his actions. Ellie may not have known she’d die, but she was willing to sacrifice herself for something bigger. Joel took that choice from her. Yes, the Fireflies were prepared to operate on Ellie without consent, but Joel didn’t save Ellie because of that moral dilemma-he saved her because he couldn’t bear to lose her. He made a selfish decision based on his needs, not Ellie's, and then lied to her for years. Regarding Abby, yes, revenge is a cycle. But Abby did take responsibility for her actions. She hunted Joel down and killed him. The fact that she spared Ellie and Tommy twice shows a depth to her character-she wanted to break the cycle of violence, even after losing everything. And Abby didn’t owe Ellie an explanation about why she killed Joel. That’s not how revenge works in their brutal world. Abby, like many people, was driven by grief and anger, just as Ellie was in her pursuit of Abby. They’re both victims of the world they live in. You argue that Abby ‘endangered her friends’ by letting Ellie live, but that’s the nature of their world-violence and survival are constant. Abby choosing mercy is what ultimately makes her different from Joel. Joel never gave Abby’s father or the Fireflies the chance to explain or negotiate. He killed them without hesitation. Abby, despite her hatred, still showed restraint. As for the cure, even if it wasn’t a perfect solution, it was humanity’s best shot at survival, and Ellie was ready to be that hope. Joel took that away from not just Ellie but the world. In the end, the story highlights that there are no heroes or villains-just people making desperate choices in a broken world. Abby’s story is tragic, and yes, it could have been told differently, but she ultimately had more humanity left in her than Joel did. That’s why I stand by her actions.
I don't agree with your point on Abby. The point of the Last of Us story is that revenge will lead to violence and you will never be satisfied if you go down that path. Neither Ellie or Abby where "right" as they both end up with a bad end. Abby in this list feels like bait for comments...which I fell for.
Except Abby chose to break the cycle of violence, WAY before Ellie did.
After the first justified kill, Abby was playing defense the entire time. Trying to move on.
@@Axowhatl She didn't choose to break the cycle. She got her goal and went "no longer my problem! I got what I wanted!" That ain't breaking the cycle. THe cycle is tid for tad. Abby having tid means the cycle is now waiting for the other to get tad.
ALso "Justified Kill"? SHe just got saved by the guy she killed...
@@undertakernumberone1 That's so weird. You must have skipped an entire segment in a theater. That's too bad; it's really good. I recommend you check it out.
@@Axowhatl lol yeah who thought murdering a guy who saved his ward from her child murdering father would face consequences?
@@Axowhatl what do you mean? She ends up with finding her terrorist friends and Lev. She got a better end. Ellie was weak to let her live
everyone keeps assuming the fireflies would have 100% found a cure when their own research shows they were basically guessing and could have easily killed ellie for nothing.
Agreed. Their understanding of medical science...well, science in general was dubious at best. They could have performed a biopsy on Ellie, which is what a doctor would have done (I asked a doctor when I went in for hypertension...I had no idea that HE had played the game as well). Keeping her alive while researching the possibilities would have been the intelligent thing to do. Instead, they went right for surgery...LETHAL surgery instead of gathering samples and doing the work to see if they could create some form of cure through samples, which is how vaccine research works. I REALLY don't get how that choice can be defended. 'Cause if the surgeon was actually competent he would have followed protocols and taken his time. Ellie wasn't in any immediate danger, so they could have taken their time. Instead, they rushed to butcher her, and intentionally antagonised her guardian. Too Dumb To Live should have been printed on their shirts...
@@thedarkstarr11The Fireflies demonstrated that they clearly had no idea what they were doing, and their “medical professionals” came off more as snake oil salesmen than actual doctors.
@@thedarkstarr11 A vaccine for a fungal infection... already questionable. Then, you can find some logs, which always went "no positive results."
It's so bad that Druckman iirc went "Oh, it totally would'Ve worke!" in interviews or something... which should tell you how badly written that was iwth the transition to TLOU2, and that that clearly was just to give our new guys a pretention of having the moral high groud.
I mean not only that do you really think they would share it with fedra or use it to make them submit?
I believe there's in-game evidence or extra lore around that shows Ellie wasn't the only one immune. They'd tried the surgery before and never had any success.
Fr tho, saying Abby was 'right' misses the point of the game, in which violence benefits no one and only prolongs the trauma those who participate and are victims of it suffer from.
The fact that the minute Abby's pov starts and is clear she isn't exactly 'liberated' after killing Joel and actually feels worse should make it quick obvious that the whole 'Joel deserved to die,' take has no backing even from the lense of the game that appears to be critiquing him 😊
Honestly the event they choose to embody the game's theme is so scuffed it ruins the argument. Because they wanted joel to be inception of the cycle of violence for abby who then transferred it to ellie and so on and so forth but they choose perhaps the worst event to make that claim and that being joel reacting to an injustice put on to him and completely ignoring the fault and responsibility on the fireflies part. If they did everything they could to show Joel their points, gave him and Ellie time alone to grieve and process this, get their affairs in order and joel still acted the way he did that would have been much better for their theme putting the act of violence squarely on joel's shoulders. Of course that's out of character for him in part 1 so that is why he doesn't do it. So as is a much more mature path should have been to recognize the responsibility joel has in killing abby's dad, but responsibility the fire flies had in trying to kill a girl without her consent essentially, and recognize the responsibility of their my leaders for not entertaining the idea of making allies not enemies when they could and thus not lead them to be desperate enough to piss off the wrong dad with the right girl, and so on and so forth. Like actually put the work to show the chain of violence being both larger than one person cascade of wrongs made up of individual wrongs by many people. Basically acknowledging there was a reason behind them and that if you continue the chain you're not better than or worse than the next person. But you're still responsible. Bit of a first draft but I hope it basically conveyed that the game could have had a really good and mature message but it sort of wasted it in execution
Wow unless you like a great fictional narrative. But hey who wants that. Here's a golf club.
The point of tlous2 was that revenge does nothing but cause more pain. Violence begets violence suffering is just met with more suffering.
Speak for your own
She was right in her eyes, when some bearded psychopath murdered her father and a bunch of her friends and doctors to save one kid. The second Joel did that, he was marked for death
If Abby was right then she a big hypocrite
Yes, because Joel saving a life and doing it in a quick clean way makes brutal torture, while making the person he saved watch, justified. That is why reasonable people can never get behind her. The revenge she got was done in a more demented, evil way than anything else in the entire first or second game. Also this list is saying that perpetuating the cycle of violence is "right" with her inclusion. She is clearly just there to drive engagement, like her being the thumbnail.
If i remember correctly, Abbynator had no problem sacrificing Elie to get the serum so how can she get mad that Joel killed her father to protect Elie?
Ellie’s sacrifice would save humanity. Joel killing her father doomed humanity.
@@lemaygaming6952so you can murder an innocent person as long as it saves enough other people?
Except that's not how fungal diseases work there was no cure in Ellie's blood that was a pipe dream by a bunch of desperate and delusional fireflies @@lemaygaming6952
@@lemaygaming6952 Bro even Abby's father didn't know if it would work or not. He was all fine cutting open an innocent girl like a fucking maniac and Abby saying she would have done it, does not matter
@lemaygaming6952 I don't know, people still seem to be alive even without a cure.
Abby wasn't right about anything, because there was never a guarantee a cure could be derived from Ellie's sacrifice. So Abby's dad would've just been another murderer.
I have always thought Joel did the right thing in The Last of Us. I don't understand how any doctor or scientist would decide the first thing to do is kill the only immune person. There are SO many non-lethal tests that you could do first!
Now he was in the wrong for lying to Ellie about it, but I stand by his decision to not let her die.
First look: Oh boy abby on the thumbnail can't wait to hear this.
After the video: nope not convinced. Abby was not right. At the very least not more right than joel for what she was doing. trying to stop a bunch of people from killing a girl who they had denied the chance to consent to a life ending surgery is the "by any means nessecery" type of wrong that often is used to justify any wrong just because it might have good intentions. Then couple this with the fact abby never seeks to understand why her dad was killed makes her very villainous as she is essentially trying to excuse her own father's actions that put him in that situation in the first place. Remember they choose to proceed on a dangerous life ending procedure to operate on a young girl who was just beginning to find reason to enjoy life again with out even giving her the chance to get her affiars in order because she "might" say no. You can appeal to all the potential people who that could have saved all you wanted, but that is neither joel's responsibility nor his concern. Likewise, abby is right to seek out vengence because that is still her dad afterall and she loved him, but she wasn't seeking justice meaning that she wasn't holding her own dad's legacy accountable for what he was participating in meaning that she is no more virtuous than joel and in many ways is worse.
That whole game was a lot of everyone going way too far out of their way for revenge, and I can't believe any player was truly invested in moving those objectives forward like they were in the first game.
Solas is the one who made the veil to banish the other elven gods from Thedas. They killed Mythal, “ a crime for which an eternity of torment, is the only fitting punishment”, according to Solas. That was the final straw and he created the Veil.
it is like they never even played the game
Him tearing it down is still the right thing to do going by the lore as shown in Veilguard. They got the reason wrong, but he's still doing the right thing to stop a greater evil.
Want a good take on why abby is such a horrible character. Go watch the fiery jokers video on it. He is someone that hates joel for what he did in the first game but would go on to say how much worse abby actually is than joel
Like the funny thing is, Joel got a fair end for the character's past misdeeds.
It's just that no one likes a VERY forced Mary Sue like Abby where the writing has to beat you over the head repeatedly to stress how great and morally unimpeachable she is, while ALSO turning the prior game's beloved secondary lead into a miserable psychopath.
It's just a trash formula made to piss people off on how garbage and telegraphed it is.
I understand why Abby was upset, but did they seriously have to make her that unlikable?
No they didn't that was a failure in execution
@@sab3redg333 the definition of “failure in execution”.
Perhaps it's my age, but I don't understand what you find so unlikable about her. She was WAY more likeable than Ellie.
Is it because she was a strong woman with muscles?
She was meant to be unlikeable, until she meets Lev. Also, Ellie progressively becomes more unlikeable.
@@Axowhatl nah, man on that last part, trust me you need to know more people if you haven't even heard of the crush watermelon meme, but no Abby could be considered unlikeable because at her core she is an antagonist to the previous main characters without her seeking their perspective and she comes off as a hypocrite without self awareness. and although she has traits like fear of heights, strong ties to people, friends, and love of animals, that's not really all that unique nor different from plenty of other people. everyone has their insecurities, their loved ones, and quirks that make them special but what really draws people to a character is what's a bit underneath when the going get tough or when their morals are threatened to compromised how do they react then? and for most people that doesn't feel resolved. She killed her father's killer yet her father's killer was a nice guy who helped an entire town and had a daughter too. yet we never see her remorseful or haunted by that choice she just moves on from it. that feels a bit hollow considering how otherwise normal she is. There are numerous revenge stories where the hero is out to kill even worse people than joel and yet they still have the act of venge weigh heavy on their heart. there's half a story missing from Abby
What culture: "Number 20: Big Boss" Me: "Nope, don't hate him"
Wasn’t the whole point of the last of us two that neither protagonist was right?
Aaaaand it begins.. I'm going to get my popcorn for this one.
@@crisgit_gWhat begins? I see both sides to the last of us 2 argument. I’m kind of in both camps. The first one was a 10/10, part 2 was an 8/10. Just the abbey section felt a bit too long and monotonous.
Your right, whatever outcome for either decision would have been the wrong one and nobody wins.
Naughty dog copies bland generic movies and pretends it makes them the god of story telling.
@@justaguy7230 they mean the list of comments coming your way, let's entertain them in a respectfully manner shall we?
Yeah i can see both sides of the argument too and that's what is the start of a really cool discussuin/message issue was that the game had a clear side it took and it only defended Abby not provided reasonable counter to what she did, and thus it sort of is trying to make the decision for the player instead of the players coming to one themselves. A good example of this is that Abby never figures out why joel killed her dad. Abby's dad was in the wrong for doing a life ending operation n a girl without her consent, without giving her warning and without at least trying to wait for her to be able to gain awareness to give consent. They then barred her guadien from seeing her, and didn't leave him one final chance to say good bye and constantly antagonisted him every step of the way when he was dangeriously approaching protective status mood. On the other hand, joel killed every single firefly in a life or death engagement however didn't spare Abby's dad even though he had only a melee weapon. now my memory of the exact events are spotty but i do recall that while joel could have subdued him in a way that didn't ensure his death that is only a luxury if the doctor didn't make things difficult and i think the doctor, not surrendering, not moving away from ellie or putting his scapel down, ensured his death. Now years later when Abby kills joel in revenge which is fair she loved her dad, she never acknowledges the complexity of the situation considering joel was a decent guy in the eyes of everyone else, had a daughter, and a family, and her dad had wronged joel ad ellie, it makes her harder to root for. as she's not seeking justice she is seeking just revenge for the wrong reason. which is fair but if the story wants her to be more than just the villain which the story does, its not exactly the best way to characterize her. it essentially is saying she pretty cold and cruel to those who wronged her without compromise, is unable to see nuisance, and is a hypocrite considering she by all means just became the exact same type of monster she thinks joel was. and then has the nerve to get angry at ellie for involving her friends in her own murder quest and exposing them to danger. In short the story makes a stance in favor of Abby but shows that Abby doesn't deserve such a defense.
So do think crisgit_g would find this comment enjoyable?
*Sees screenshot*
These comments about to get pretty entertaining
Indeed
I wouldn't be mad if senator Armstrong was on this list
sure Joel killed Abby's father and other Firefly members but how many people did Firefly kill in trying to find a cure? Killing Elie doesn't guarantee a cure
Ellie dying wouldn't guarantee a cure, but killing the members of Firefly does guarantee they won't find a cure.
Alternative title, 10 villains who did the wrong things for the right reasons.
Two wrongs don't make a right regardless what you're doing it for.
Cap, that saying is trash
Ross personifies the quote of 'I don't like this job, I'm just trying to do it', doesn't make it any less personal to bury him
You got the dragon age thing wrong. Solas made the veil. Not the other gods.
Ross was trash. Yes he used an ex-bad guy to capture/kill all his bad guy friends. But he made an agreement with John that he immediately went back on, and also took his family hostage with the threat of death if he didn't cooperate. Now Abigail was a part of the Van Der Linde Gang, but the only person she ever killed was Milton, who took her hostage and was about to kill Arthur right in front of her. Something Ross never knew so he had no excuse. And Jack was 100% innocent.
Logan knew that Winter was coming.
saying Abby was right is crazy because you dont have the choice but to kill that doctor (who tbh i think was retconned to be abbys father) in a brutal way as even if you shot him in the foot, he'd keel over dead. Plus, it wasnt a guarantee the fireflies would have made a cure. Neither her nor Ellie were right in their rampages, even tho you understood the reason why they went on them. But if you say Abby was right, then so was Ellie.
Okay, don't tell me Abby was 'right' to kill Joel! The FIreflies were never good guys, and Ellie wasn't even they first try to make a vaccine. Plus I didn't get too attached to her dad for being painfully nice to animals!
5:35 The Veil wasn't made by the other elven deities for oppression, it was made by Solas to imprison them (as relayed by Dalish lore) for their betrayal of Mythal. Doing this, however, tore Arlathan apart, which is why there are elven ruins in both Thedas and the Fade. They are two halves of the empire, split apart by Solas creating the Veil. Solas is trying to "undo" his mistake by tearing the Veil down and returning the world to "normal."
The DLC also shows that Sandal (Enchantment!) is older than the Veil, as one of his diaries can be found in the Fade among the elven ruins.
Vayne Solidor and Venat in FFXII make a lot of sense, too.
I think the best villains are the ones you can understand. Even if you don't agree with their methods, if you can relate to why they are doing what they're doing, it makes them far more interesting than some cliche evil-for-the-sake-of-evil trope.
Ulyssues was wrong. A Courier is payed to deliver the package and NOT see what's inside that's literally their job. ......also a slaver's culture need not be protected. Ulysseus just has a PhD in Yappology that's all.
I kill him every time.
The only thing Abby was right about was the right to die.
She was an unfirgivable villan, no matter how much the game wants you to think otherwise.
LOL
@@Kain01able Reevaluate after puberty.
Not only is Raphael right, but he has the best Disney Villain energy with his song if you decide to fight him.
Plus, his chances of success are pretty slim. Handing him the crown may seem like insanity, but all he is going to do is get all of the other Archdevils to unite against him. I mean, if Mephistoheles wasn't going to use it to overthrow Asmodeus, that should tell you something. Most likely, he's going to cause some trouble, then he's going to get stomped into oblivion by Daddy. Afterwards, the Crown is going right back into the Vault. Even with that power boost, Raphael isn't going to win in the end. Though, have to admit, breaking into the House of Hope, and then taunting him with his 'performance' is enough of a reason to screw him over.
Great video
I love a good villain storyline but sometimes they are just the worst and want to do the worst things good list really enjoyed it 🎮👏 some of them are so fun to kill off or even play love gaming as the villain 🖤
I love Joel as much as the next LOU fan, but if you killed my dad, I’d come after you too.
While I agree Logan was right in how he aggressively prepared Albion for the Crawler, there was no excuse for making you choose between killing your lover or the leaders of a simple protest against his tyranny.
In no world is Abby from TLOU2 right.
No. She’s right
@@joaquinrodriguez9004 Nope
@@randomrobin7773 yep
@@joaquinrodriguez9004 Believe what you want, won't change reality.
Yeah another list from what culture defending Abby. When are they gonna learn that their audience mostly doesn't agree with that?
So am I hearing you right?! Are you saying it's okay to go back to what you remember and not build forward?!
Not even going to watch this one but had to comment. Title of video game villains that were right along with a thumbnail of Abby automatically negates the premise.
Carlito is definitely not in the right for unleashing a zombie plague. To bring awareness to what happened in his city,knowing damn well the consequences. Also ross is not right either,because John left that life along time ago to be a family man. Now if he kept his promise,to john then you can argue that both are good guys. Having not played 2,some of the context of abby as a whole is lost on me lol. But that cure was not a guarantee,it was a shot in dark. Joel was wrong to,but just like with carlito 2 wrongs not going to make it right lol.
I'm sure that thumbnail will cause absolutely no controversy and immediate disagreement in the comment section
If the first game would have been from Abbys perspective, people would now hate Joel. So sad they don't realize their bigotry.
I won't lie i almost did that myself but I had to force myself to listen first. Glad i did, i could have been wrong and blasted them for having a good point but i took the time to understand their perspective. Ironically enough the very least abby could have done
Yeah, they know what they’re doing. Fishing for those rage clicks. Getting that ad money.
You new to thumbnail farming engagement?
@@jayfkay82 no its not that simply. they still would need Abby and her dad to be decent characters. fact is all the dislike stems from the fact that Abby's dad was complacent in trying to kill an unconscious girl in a surgery she didn't consent to while the guy who stepped into the role of being her dad, does what ever he can to save her life. and to make matters worse its not like joel is trying to save his daughter replacement, no he gineunely is doing it out of concern for ellie's well being as a person, so its goes against normal morals to see someone who died trying to protect a loved one be so poorly treated. Fact of the matter is abby's dad did a bad thing, and now abby's not only not acknowledging her dad was also in the wrong, she's committing another wrong, putting ellie through the same thing she went through. Now abby's a hypocrite thanks to the story not allowing her depth.
Agreed 100% with Joel
Abby was wrong.
People didn't hate Abby for "being right". People hated Abby for being a lazy sloppily written Mary Sue, who had to trample over the corpses and characterization of the good game's 2 leads, all for the laziest most predictable "shock twist" of "omg she's so good and morally perfect!".
Trash writing for a trash game which came at the expense of the story and characters of a MUCH better original game.
Edit: I ain't even mad about Joel. Bad stuff catching up to a guy who did bad stuff, sucks but happens. I don't even hate Abby at face value. I just hate bad writing and what it did to Ellie for a sequel that wasn't wanted by anyone with even a lick of common sense, so that some scrub can pat himself on the back for how "clever" his "twist" was.
Fact is, Joel could done THE MOST selfish things, fact is it's all relatable... Abby was forced on us. Where WHAT would have worked, if she got a moment LIKE THE SHOW with the brothers, where roaming with them, she'd get
Ross is law enforcement, which are not heroes to a lot of people in real life and even in modern times.
Damn, here quick!
Yeah this video is just rage bait don't rise to it fellas.
well alright lol, it was a good run
Spoilers for Persona 5:.
Dr. Maruki was right and the phantom thieves are the bad guys in that fight.
Screw Abby.
Half Life 2 still looks good
Whatbias strikes again.
Flash games, that’s all
Spoiler Alert: It’s a matter of perception…
Abby lol. Joel did nothing wrong!
So then why are they villains
For Abby's case, being a sore loser doesn't make you right.
Dont read the comments on this one jules lol
Truth hurts fam
Your entire team is an inspiration and we appreciate all the work you do! 🎭🎨🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
Brown Gary Anderson Matthew Walker Michelle
The metal gear comments sounds no different than what's going on currently
I refuse to accept your take on abby and refute that she is in any way correct in her actions.
Everything about Abby was wrong. Everything.
No
How so?
Abby feels like a good character gone to waste due to the terrible writing
Cope
I just couldn't do anything but hate her... written differently maybe. But she killed Joel brutally infront of Ellie. The character we got attached to and loved. Than they are like "feel sorry for the person that killed her and now play with her." And that's just one of the many problems I have with Abby.
Abby shouldnt have been in the game
If you think Abby is justified in killing Joel, then you miss the entire point of the game, which is the futility of revenge and that violence only begets more violence. Is it UNDERSTANDABLE that Abby killed Joel. Yeah, of course it is. Once you learn her story, her actions go from seemingly random and senseless to absolutely making sense. However... understandable and justifiable are worlds apart. She wasn't justified in killing Joel, and she wasn't right to kill him. Killing Joel doesn't bring her father back, nor does it give humanity the vaccine that her father was hoping to develop. In the end, all that violence and revenge was for nothing.
Dishonorable Mention: Pagan Min (Far Cry 4)
@@luckystudent00 Life under Pagam Min was 1,000 better than the other 2 you help take over.
@@Juggtacula Well, that's pretty much one of those: 'Little did we know' moments & that choice/ending did actually catch players off guard. But that would be an understatement. Reason I said Pagan Min for 2 reasons: A. One of his soldiers executed a Civilian when being given the order to stop the bus & the people inside alive. He never knew until he was given the answer. B: His relationship with the Main Protagonist & the Blood Relation as well as he wanted the protagonist to actually become the new Leader of Kyrat, when given the full truth that Pagan Min really wasn't the Villain all along, player's jaws dropped [Luckily there was a secret ending in the beginning of the game]
What Joel did no matter what wasn’t right. But what Abby did wasn’t right either. Even though that game world is cruel murder is never okay.
I see a few of these comments about abby, as far as im concerned if you think abby Anderson was not justified than ellie is also not, they both lost the same man in their lives, i dont see many people applying the same reasoning to ellie
Hate to be first
Higgs in Death Stranding.
The 6th extinction is clearly inevitable at some point so he is trying to simply speed up the process and end everyone's suffering in a ravaged, broken, terrifying world, even though Amelia is reluctant to fulfil her destiny as the extinction entity.
Dormin from Shadow of the Colossus. Told Wander that he could revive Mono in exchange for killing the 16 Colossi and then warned him that there is a consequence should he succeed in doing so. At the end of the game Dormin took control of Wander which was the consequence but, he fulfilled his end of the bargain by reviving Mono. Wander agree to the terms but, Dormin got a lot of hate because people said he manipulated Wander which he technically didn't.
Making someone agree to something without knowing exactly what they're agreeing to, by dangling a near-impossible choice at them, is absolutely manipulation. It's very heavy-handed manipulation, and could probably be accurately described as extortion, but still.
Here's my issue with TLOU2: It was never the content in regards to a character or story decisions, it was always the ORDER of events. I hated the flashbacks to flashforwards it would get me confused on where the heck I was in the story.
God you love rage baiting with Abby, granted you won because im here commenting on how she was not right, hell Senator Armstrong was more right than her.
abby i understand but all joel did was save ellie and the cure the fireflies was gonna keep for themselves
Don't Forget A Big One...Yoronobi Arasaka... Cyberpunk 2077
I didn't hate Abby at all, I loved her story and ended up hating Eliie's guts for going on a horrible murder spree throughout the game. She lived long enough to become the villain. Abby killed one guy with reasonable justification and her group left Ellie and Tommy alive proving they aren't "bad" people. Ellie killed hundreds in her path and let the one person she wanted to kill live. Now THAT is an atrocity. Such a waste of time and lives.
I never thought i would ever this, but you let me down today Jules... For someone who makes a point in every video to help out people, to tell them hang in there, to not give up etc (and also because of your own personal history), you tell us that Abby should be in a video where "the villain was right all along"???? There is no heroes on that game only villains... Everyone is a killer and do what they must to survive... Abby killed Joel with cruelty, not mercifully, she made sure he suffered first and it was not because Joel made the selfies choice of not delivering the cure; she did because he killed her dad! I am truly in horror to hear all of your words about that entry, you really REALLY let me down today... Guess we can't put anyone in a pedestal because they just end up disappointing you somehow...
4 years after it's release and the last of us part 2 still blows up the comments section by far lol, it shows how well done and impactful the game really was.
Abby being right in killing Joel, it doesn't stop it from having one of the worse endings to a game since ME3.
If Abbey was justified in killing Joel, then Ellie is more than justified in killing Abbey And the washington liberation front is just as Bad as a raider gang in fallout
Abby was worse than Kratos in the Greek God of War saga.
He at least didn't make excuses and wanted vengeance and slaughter.
He didn't care about anyone or anything until he met Pandora herself.
So in Abby's case can understand her revenge, but her father wasn't in the right, nor was she. She killed someone for her personal gain, she was also a horrible friend and selfish, sorry but people hated her for the right reason, (although I don't agree with the Va's getting hatred for that character). If someone likes her it's fine but there's legit valid reason for the hate towards her.😂
I didn't hate Abby. Once I played her she was my favorite of the two stories
*clears throat* joel was a monster, and him dying for his crimes was inevitable... just because he did it for a good reason doesnt redeem him for killing tons of innocent people. that's not how accountability works.
Abby is the antagonist in the context of LOU2 story but if we had been following her journey and that of her dads they’d be the protagonists. That’s one reason why LOU world is interesting: it’s not a simple black/white world.
3 thing make Abby the villian in LOU2:
1. Killing Joel after he’d saved her life.
2. Willing to kill Dina despite knowing she’s pregnant.
2 1/2. Sleeping with Owen despite him being with the other girl. That’s a half cause it was consensual.
I would add 2 more things to that list,
4 abby becoming a hypocrite killing a girls dad right in front of her.
And 5 probably the biggest thing for me: her not understanding why joel did what he did. She never shows nor demonstrates that her father and the fireflies were in the wrong trying to operate on a patient without permission. Even if it will save the world that's not the fireflies, the doctor's or Marlene's sacrifice its Ellies and her call to make. At the very least she should be given the right to make it not have it be made for her. If Abby still did what she did and acknowledged her dad made a huge mistake agreeing to kill ellie, i would honestly find her a much better character
Meanwhile Ellie kills a pregnant woman and the same pregnant woman saved a life (Lev's sister)
@@TheOmegaDragon by accident and in self defense. She didn’t know the woman was pregnant till after. And it DESTROYS her.
@@jessedellross3245 That is not an excuse for killing somebody. She still intended to kill everyone involved with Joel's murder. She even killed their dog who was defending them. She was the intruder that broke in and tried to harm them.
@@TheOmegaDragon AGAIN the dog attacked her and she defended herself. The woman was trying to stab her with a knife. What was she supposed to do let her?
She wanted to take revenge on those who hurt her and yeah that’s messed up. But like it’s explained in the game, she’s lost her way and is driven by revenge. But even she has her limits and it was killing the pregnant woman.
Ellie abandons her revenge your right after proving how much it shook her. Abby finds out Dina is pregnant…..and fully intended on killing her. See the difference?
Incorrect, Abby is unequivocally the hero. She slew the greatest evil in the TLOU universe. Her only mistake was not making Joel suffer WAY more.
Ellie is the villain. Went out and killed all but one member of the hero faction to avenge the bad guy.
Perspective is such a funny thing. You could easily apply this in the reverse.
ELLIE IS UNEQUIVOCALLY THE HERO. She avenged her caretaker who was murdered after slaying all the evil doctors and revolutionist who had tricked her and were going to kill her in her sleep without even giving her a chance to say good bye. Then as she killed all those evil women and men one by one she decided to let abby live just so that she didn't because just like her a caretaker taker. Her only mistake was not making abby feel guilty enough for killing joel, ellie's dad, before they sailed off
Take care friend
I’ve always found it so incredibly stupid that so many people hate TLOU 2 because of what Abby does to Joel. As if none of the other characters are allowed to have motives. Such a weak reason to criticize the game.
@johnnydripp such a weak reason to defend the game
More so execution. People hate what Abby did because it was an injustice. She wanted to kill Joel because joel killed her dad, ok simple fair enough. Did she ever find out why joel killed her dad tho? Well not really. Does she feel like a hypocrite for killing a girls dad right in front of her? Well no. Does she even question if joel is so evil if he has a family and even saved her? No... Does Abby even realize how much danger she put all her friends and family in because she not only let Ellie live she also let her see all of their faces. After all abby had less information on joel and she managed to kill him. Who is to say the same thing won't happen to all these people who you roped into a revenge quest and not even ensure their own safety. Not even once considered. People are upset because it feels like a double standard in abby's favor and how cold and inhuman her reactions to really normal stuff is. She doesn't need to forgive joel or display feelings of remorse. But if you want her to be more than just a bad guy in the eyes of people you have to make her act appropriately in the ideas of traditionally virtue. She feels bad because she feels guilty. Meaning she has a good heart. She goes off on her own to handle revenge on her own to prevent others from getting hurt, and she hesitates and is conflicted because she doesn't feel right about putting someone else through her trauma. If all of this was shown from abby i bet you a lot of people would have taken to her better. Not everyone because frankly gamers hate having to kill the main character of the previous entry or playing their killer, but you would have at least had a genuinely more sympathetic and "human" character to play as
@@sab3redg333 that's is brilliant polarized sentence
@@rolando90s i try😆
I honestly believe Abby is the true hero in The Last of Us Part II, and it’s about time we stop glorifying Joel. Joel is a selfish man who took away Ellie’s right to make a choice about her immunity. Ellie wanted to do something good for the world. She didn’t know the full extent-sure, she thought it might just be about drawing some blood-but she was ready to make a sacrifice to help find a cure for the Cordyceps virus. Joel took that away from her, stole her right to choose, and then he lied to her for years about it. He didn’t care about humanity; he cared about what he wanted.
And we can’t forget the cost of Joel’s actions. The doctor who was supposed to perform the surgery to create the cure? That was Abby’s father. Joel murdered him, ripping Abby’s life apart. So when Abby finally tracks Joel down and kills him in the second game, yes, it’s brutal, but it’s understandable. Joel needed to die. He wasn't a hero-far from it. In the first game, Joel admits that he’s played ‘both sides,’ meaning he was a dangerous and cruel person in the early outbreak. He wasn’t some virtuous protector, and he didn’t deserve a noble send-off like Wolverine or some tragic hero. He was a flawed man who paid the price for his actions.
Abby, though? After killing Joel, she spares Ellie and Tommy. She lets them go. And how do Ellie and Tommy repay that mercy? They hunt down and slaughter every last one of Abby’s friends, leaving her utterly alone. Imagine that-your father is murdered, then all of your friends are hunted down and killed by the very people you showed kindness to. Abby loses everything, and still, she’s the one being painted as the villain by some players.
Even after Ellie has killed all of her friends, Abby spares her again. When Abby tracks Ellie to the theater in Seattle, she still lets her go. Abby shows Ellie mercy twice. And what does Ellie do with that? She obsessively tracks Abby down to the Santa Barbara Firefly base, ready to kill her. Abby has every reason to kill Ellie, but in the end, Ellie is the one who can’t let go of the past, who’s consumed by vengeance. Abby, despite everything, is the one who tries to move on.
Joel deserved to die. Ellie’s spiral into revenge only proves that Abby is the stronger, better person. If anyone’s the real hero in this story, it’s Abby.
Yes, because Abby's Dad was a hero...
He wasn't he was a butcher, he had already killed several other "immune" before the surgery was supposed to happen...
@@TheAdypoker He killed several people in an attempt to make a cure to save millions. Joel killed more people going through that hospital than that doctor did looking for a cure.
@@TheAdypoker There's no actual evidence in The Last of Us that Abby’s father had killed any other immune individuals before Ellie. That’s pure speculation and not supported by the game’s narrative. The Fireflies may have been desperate for a cure, but the story only focuses on Ellie’s situation-there’s nothing to suggest that Abby’s dad was some kind of ‘butcher.’
What we do know for sure is that Joel selfishly took away Ellie’s right to choose, murdered Abby’s father, and lied to Ellie for years about it. Abby’s motivations are rooted in avenging her father’s death, which was an understandable reaction to the extreme loss she experienced. The idea that Joel should be seen as the hero here is just as flawed as painting Abby as the villain. It’s easy to demonize Abby when people conveniently forget that Joel wasn’t some moral savior either.
I'm sorry to say this, but it was the fireflies that took ellie's right to consent away, not joel. as the fire flies were going to operate on ellie in her sleep. ellie this whole time was willing to go through the procedure thinking she would be subjected to just a simple medical test or exam. point is she thought she would live afterword. She never knew she would die from what the fireflies were going to do. And then there's the fact that she would have woken up eventually as shown in the ending, but they didn't wait they prepped her surgery regardless. all while not giving her a chance to get her affairs in order and say good bye to joel and likewise for joel to say good bye to ellie because, yes joel is a person he still would want to connect with his loved ones. This line of thinking is the same ones used to justify atrocities for the good they might lead but for centuries we have debated about how the ends don't justify the means the fireflies were wrong for thinking that the means meant they were free from retribution.
The cure would have been a vaccine, so only inoculating those before infections all the infected would still be a lost cause so that would mean that all the people who trusted and could reach the fireflies would have benefited from the vaccine which is not many considering how low the reputation of the fireflies were at this point and time and the fact that they never once seemed to have a sure-fire way to reproduce the vaccine if it was successful since they only have one infection immune brain to work with. so supplies are vastly limited.
Abby seeking revenge is fair enough, she loves her dad after all but her not thinking that ellie wouldn't want revenge is very arrogant, entitled and foolish. after all didn't Abby want revenge for a man killing her dad? Why would she think ellie would be any different, especially in a world as harsh as the one she is living where almost anyone alive at this point is a potential combatant. So Abby was only endangering her friends by allowing ellie to not only live, but also live after knowing all the people who took part in joel's murder. And to kill joel in front of ellie just makes her ironically worse than joel. she's a hypocrite for putting another woman through the same pain she went through and for doing it without explaining her reasoning to ellie. almost ensuring that ellie would take revenge on her friends. Abby almost refuses to take responsibility for her actions in killing joel and hopes that she can escape the fallout by letting ellie live and to a degree by not even trying to understand why joel went on a massacre resulting in her dad's death to begin with. And because of this she allowed her ghost to haunt her life but never tries to find a permanent end for if not her safety for at least the safety of those around her.
The line between noble and foolishness is thin, and due to the game's depictions of Abby's actions, it did her no favors. Honestly, she deserved a better story. just like everyone in last of us part 2
@@sab3redg333 While I agree that the Fireflies should have communicated better with Ellie, it doesn't absolve Joel of his actions. Ellie may not have known she’d die, but she was willing to sacrifice herself for something bigger. Joel took that choice from her. Yes, the Fireflies were prepared to operate on Ellie without consent, but Joel didn’t save Ellie because of that moral dilemma-he saved her because he couldn’t bear to lose her. He made a selfish decision based on his needs, not Ellie's, and then lied to her for years.
Regarding Abby, yes, revenge is a cycle. But Abby did take responsibility for her actions. She hunted Joel down and killed him. The fact that she spared Ellie and Tommy twice shows a depth to her character-she wanted to break the cycle of violence, even after losing everything. And Abby didn’t owe Ellie an explanation about why she killed Joel. That’s not how revenge works in their brutal world. Abby, like many people, was driven by grief and anger, just as Ellie was in her pursuit of Abby. They’re both victims of the world they live in.
You argue that Abby ‘endangered her friends’ by letting Ellie live, but that’s the nature of their world-violence and survival are constant. Abby choosing mercy is what ultimately makes her different from Joel. Joel never gave Abby’s father or the Fireflies the chance to explain or negotiate. He killed them without hesitation. Abby, despite her hatred, still showed restraint.
As for the cure, even if it wasn’t a perfect solution, it was humanity’s best shot at survival, and Ellie was ready to be that hope. Joel took that away from not just Ellie but the world.
In the end, the story highlights that there are no heroes or villains-just people making desperate choices in a broken world. Abby’s story is tragic, and yes, it could have been told differently, but she ultimately had more humanity left in her than Joel did. That’s why I stand by her actions.