My Dad was the radio officer on Tinian in 1945, USAAF. A part of his crews' responsibilities was to confirm or repair radios on all landing aircraft due to the long over-water distances aircraft traveled from Tinian. The crew which attempted to service the Enola Gay was told they could not board the aircraft for any reason and were sent away. They reported to Capt. Thompson this state of affairs and he hopped into a jeep with his radio techs to go disabuse the plane captain of the notion he needn't check his radios. He found Military Police, well armed, holding a perimeter at some distance from the bomber. He too was ordered away. Later came the announcement of the first A-bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
@@MrDaiseymay : If you are addressing your remark to me, no it is not surprising. I am interested in this period of history but I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any means. I am just fascinated by these little side-stories that bring a more personal facet to the operations. It also lends itself to a greater admiration for that generation and the sacrifices they had to make. They were not found wanting, in their stubborn courage or fortitude to see the job through to the end, no matter the danger involved. I for one, am immensely proud of them and what they achieved.
@Gideons Word : Life is a series of what ifs. If Japan had not bombed Pearl Harbour, there would have been no need for the US to go to war with them and no need to drop these two bombs. If Hitler had kept his word and not invaded Poland, Life would probably be much different. If I was rich instead of good - looking... well you get the idea. 😂
My Dad was in a Japanese POW Camp when he and his fellow Prisoners Of War heard an entire Japanese city was leveled by a single bomb. They weren't curious about the bomb they were trying to imagine how big the plane would need to be to drop a bomb that big! 😄
We had a wwii vet who was a pow in Japan. When he saw the bomb blow up one of the cities, the japs started treating them better. He knew the war was ending soon.
I met Paul Tibbets, the pilot who dropped the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima. He knew and said my time, we shook hands and talked. I have a photo of us together. It was at the air force base. He was a tough old man let me tell you. So interesting to have met him.
@@mohammadbazzi3072 you do realize it was the bombs or the death of millions instead of just a few hundred thousand, correct? It was the far lesser of 2 evils. 2 bombs which kill a few 100,000, or a full ground invasion which wouldve pushed the war to 1946 and killed millions more.
@@AdmiralWillisLee1942 Ill add far more died in comventional bombing raids overall. Dresden comes to mind (Its uncomfirmed how many were killed due to a mass influx of both PoWs and refugees). This was the major point of producing the atomic bomb, a pyschological shock that swiftly neutralized a large target. War is not pretty and its not kind. Its war. Glad to see its become fairly common knowledge how awful Operation Downfall would have been
I served on a High Security Military Base in Canada. That was when I found out that the Altitude Trigger for Little Boy was developed at that High Security Base in Canada.
@Allington Marakan It was made in the US with UK advanced technology , the UK was not a safe place to continue with development , sorry to piss on your US parade
@@Gay_Nigga_Hoodmoments The Canadians knew that the Altitude Trigger was being made for some type of Bomb but did not know it was for an Atomic Bomb. They thought it was for some large Conventional Bomb.
@Allington Marakan Well stated! Those military personnel that were with the first wave of the occupation forces entering Japan said the defenses that were established and the war Lord's refusal to concede would of taken nearly a year to overcome and of cost possibly a million more lives, most of those lives Japanese civilians.
I recently visited the Bomber Command Air Museum in Nanton Alberta. Where one of the four still functional Lancasters in the world is housed. They're a lot, A LOT bigger then I thought.
Thought there were only two flyable Lancaster's. One in Hamilton here in Canada and the other in England. Last I heard there's a couple on both sides of the pond that were almost air worthy. The one in Can. left T.O to B.C to be restored. The Brits' have one that can "taxi" but not fly, something to do with the main spar I think.
@@chrisfreestone4136 the taxi one is "Just Jane" they're planning and making it air worthy, they're even building a bigger runway to accommodate it but itlle be around 5-7 years until that happens
My grandfather worked on(RAF mechanic) Hurricanes and Lancasters. He was on one of the last convoys out of Dunkirk, and then spent 3 years in the North African campaign. By all accounts, he was never the same man when he came home. Their convoy if 3 trucks was harried by the Luftwaffe all the way to the beach on the escape from France and the truck behind his took a direct hit, killing 20 or so of his mates. They were all sitting looking out the back of the middle truck when the bomb hit.
The could of hung it up right next to " The dam busters". Interesting, I had never even heard of this idea, or mission. They shure cover up a lot of history, don't they?.
@Preston Nelson weird shiz just keeps getting worse. Need to get back to simpler life before these people had our grandfathers and great grandfathers destroy themselves in my opinion.
I recently posted this on the other site involved in this spat. Now many years ago! My then girl friend's Dad was a Sqn Ldr Rtd Bomb Aimer. Over far too much home made wine we discussed things "blue" and this very subject came up. Now dimmed in the mist of time it went something like this: He had been detached to RAF ? to join a small mob of bomb lobbers to look at various attack profiles which included vigorous avoidance action after release of a ten ton bomb. Once done, he went back to the main force. After the bomb was dropped the penny dropped with it. He left the RAF in 46.. The reason he said was "I had no wish to drop a nuke from a Lanc or any other kite". This conversation took place about 1970 something when I was at 1 Group. I post this purely for your info
as a small boy, I learned of experiments in England oncerning Airiel Re-Fuelling that'd be late forties early fifties. With RAF Uncles,and living near an A.V.Roe's Factory where my Aunts worked during the war my head was filled with all manner of wonders, and then at 17, I joined the RAF for 15 yearts and learned far more than I ever did at school. Recallin also an interesting Australian input when Silver City Airways and their Bristol Freighters commenced the very first Air Transport of cars in Bristol Freighters across the channel, ever since those days, I have had connections with Aircaft oif all descriptions and abilities.
Except he introduced bogus (because the B-29s were successfully modified and tested long before August 6th) commentary about "National prestige (winning) the day". Your history teacher even admitted the Lancaster mission would have been riskier.
@@RonJohn63 Not bogus at all. America was (still is) very chauvinistic about who builds their tackle. Eg. Henry Ford would not fit the British 17 pounder gun onto his Shermans.
@@g8ymw #1 Since when is it chauvinistic to use the safer and more practical aircraft? Even Felton admitted using the Lancaster would have been much more dangerous than the B-29! #2 The US readily used British tech when practical. #3 Even now, the US uses license-produced German guns in it's tanks, and used a British gun before that. #4 We didn't want the British 17 pounder because it was took up too much space inside the turret, and did just fine with our own guns. (The Chieftan has multiple videos on the subject.)
Your video is interesting but seems to be full of bold claims with zero citations to back them up. You seem to be vastly over-stating development difficulties with the B-29 and vastly understating the difficulties that Lancasters had with needed modifications and range as well as in-flight refueling testing. Please list your source stating that the B-29 wing spar needed to be cut and redesigned on Silverplate B-29s. I can find no such reference of such a thoroughly drastic modification.
Trust me, there was no cutting and re-designing of any wing spar. Its practically impossible to deviate much from origin designs as that equates to an entirely new wing and therefore aircraft. Beam theory is well established and would have been computed to the Nth degree. And a prototype would have been static loaded to its operational limits. To carry an additional load above and beyond its structural design would only require a modification to its operating limitations. I.e. a reduced limit load factor and prohibition from flying in severe turbulence. Additional fuel is carried in its wings. Larger more powerful engines are also located along the wingspan. Any additional weight from either will tend to reduce wing root bending moment, as the weight of these additional items under G-loads acts downward, against the wings lift and in opposition to additional structural loads. The B-29 is, for all intents and purposes, the pinnacle of Piston Multi-Engined Aircraft. It still holds the altitude record in its class. And the Soviets copied the B-29, because they couldn't do any better in that era.
I went to high school in Los Alamos from 1971 - 1973. I played in my first USCF (Chess) tournament there, and at least two of my opponents were LASF scientists. One of them was James Tuck, the man who came up with the idea of using an explosive shell to contain the Plutonium of the "Fat Boy" dropped on Nagasaki. He was British, VERY British. In fact, he was a caricature of a 40'a British intellectual: Tall, lanky, with wild hair and bad teeth, and a Sherlock Holmes style pipe topping it all off. Sitting on his balcony with his hand carved wooden set overlooking the bridge that separated the labs from the residential area of Los Alamos was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. A year later in a College Physics course, we saw a film about fusion power (STILL not quite there) in which he lectured. Years later I read about him in "Dark Sun" (I think) by Richard Rhoades, his second book about making the atomic weapons, this one about fusion bombs. But it may have been in his first book called "The Making of the Atomic Bomb". Both GREAT books, highly recommended.
Yes, they were gun type weapon triggers in which an explosive charge at one end of a tube fired a sphere of U235 at another sphere of U235 to achieve critical mass. This was surrounded by high explosive which detonated at the precise required instant, generating the explosive compression required to initiate the atomic reaction.
My father was a civilian scientist on the team that developed the implosion detonator for Fat Man. He was at Trinty and was scheduled to be the inflight armorer on the Nagasaki mission, but I was due to be born then so he traded positions with a Navy officer.
I was travelling by slow train from Oxford to Reading, as we reached the Chiltern Hills I noticed what I thought was an unusual looking 'Red Kite' in the distance, that dipped between the rolling hills. Suddenly the unmistakable roar of 4 Merlin engines broke the relative silence and a Lancaster Bomber came sweeping low over the train tracks passing directly above us and continuing up the valley. It was a beautifully clear, sunny spring day and all the markings on the aircraft were easily visible. There were only around 10 people in our carriage, but everyone had their heads out of the windows witnessing this awesome display. I believe that the aircraft had been at Farnborough and like many aircraft in wartime, was following the train tracks, northwards home. A truly unforgettable experience. 👍😊
Those old "Warbirds" still present such a presence when they fly by. Now we have snowflake politicians here in the USA trying to ground these planes. That plane sitting in a museum or hanger does not demonstrate the enormous presence of one in its environment. Nothing less than living history.
Had a similar experience in Lincoln one Saturday afternoon. I was at the top of Steep Hill and I, and everyone else along the dead straight axis of Steep Hill and the High Street could see and hear a Lancaster flying towards us from the south. Everyone just stopped and turned their heads upwards towards it. It was a totally unforgettable experience.
@@ronfullerton3162 Hello there! I live in Norfolk in East Anglia where much of the 8th Air Force was based. The village where I live has a road named after the B17 that crashed on it (thankfully the crew were uninjured). Nearby is another village where two young USN aircrew are buried, losing their lives in a Mosquito whilst training for night fighter operations. Their graves are beautifully maintained by the local people and I visit them regularly to pay my respects. I often visit the Imperial War Museum Duxford which has a wonderful collection of American aircraft. As you approach the American collection there is a glass wall; it has 52 panels with the outlines of 7, 031 aircraft engraved upon it, each one commemorating a US aeroplane missing in action operating from Britain during the Second World War. It brings home the sacrifice of those young men. The museum hosts incredible warbird flying displays. Every November 11th, after our local Remembrance Day service, I go to lay a wreath on the graves of the young USN boys. I hope that this is of some interest to you and that it shows that the loss of those brave young men and the aircraft in which they flew are not forgotten.
@@grendelgrendelsson5493 Thank you so much, Grendel, on not only your thoughts but what you have done for the fallen. There were spats during the war of nationalism, but luckily cooler heads maintained. After all, a house divided cannot stand. It was because the Allies were United that they succeeded. This effort on the A bomb by so many illustrates the combined stance against the enemy. And yet today, we see in these comments how people from all the parties involved are pulling different ways forgetting the unity that actually achieved this project. Not one Allie could of stood alone against the Axis. Each Allie supplied good men and good equipment towards the war effort. Many Allied soldiers lived the horrors of the war and many gave their lives. The men and machines of all World War Two nation's need to be remembered so that maybe we can resist doing this ever again. Thanks once again Grendel for your grateful thoughts and care given to the fallen!
There are some factually incorrect statements in this video. When Norman Ramsey presented the two bomb descriptions, the Little Boy bomb did not exist. The two bombs considered in the 1943 dates in this presentation (and still in development stage.....not actual bombs) were both Plutonium bombs designs. One.......a gun-type bomb of 17 foot length dubbed "Thin Man", the other an implosion bomb "Fat Man" basically as described. "Little Boy" did not exist at the time. The "Thin Man" Plutonium bomb was deemed impractical when further scientific analysis revealed predetonation would occur using any practical speed generated for the projectile. The "Thin Man" Plutonium bomb design was discarded, and "Little Boy" replaced it. A Uranium gun-type bomb of 10 foot length. This obviated any further discussion using Avro Lancasters. The "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" bomb designs would fit in the front bomb bays of B-29s. The B-29 did require some beefing up of the bomb bay interiors to carry the ~10,000 pound weight of either weapon. That Norman Ramsey was in love with the Lancaster is a stretch. His synopsis report of Project Alberta is online (History of Project A). The Lancaster was the only bomber at the time (fall of 1943) which could carry "Thin Man" in a bomb bay interior.......and there was a mention of using Lancasters in testing while the B-29 modifications were being modified. The idea was rejected....with Ramsey's blessing. If this was a special squadron dedicated to atomic bomb missions........just exactly what training do they do? They were not involved in the 155 test bombs which B-29s dropped to refine the shape and aerodynamics of the bombs.......nor any of the fusing systems that were developed in these tests.
I actually know a gentleman who sings in my church's choir (before Covid closed everything). He was among those who trained to drop the first atomic bombs, I don't recall what position he was, but he ended up as part of the backup bomber's crew. Edit: He was part of a B29 crew.
Many such personnel are reluctant to discuss their involvement but please urge him to at least write his memories down for posterity otherwise another small piece of the jigsaw of history might be lost.
@@SilvrCoconut wait till you hear aerial refueling was experimented in the 20s and jet engines were starting to be researched in the early 30s, crazy how fast aerial aviation advanced in less than 40 years.
@@SilvrCoconut I was similarly stunned when I first read about the USAAF project Aphrodite during the war. Radio controlled B-17's, loaded with explosives. JFK's older brother was killed during the trials.
This is what makes history so interesting. Never heard any of this till now, and the part about mid-air refueling was also surprising. Hats off to the Brits who were willing to take on such a mission. Thanks for this.
Opal Preston Shirley I don’t know? I’m having a hard time believing this one! I just can’t imagine the yanks allowing anything other than something American made delivering something so secret.
@@wozza77able Then you should know this is entirely true and they would have been used in Europe, there were no B29s there, Typical merican attitude since 'the bomb' was as much British/Canadian as American.
@@wozza77able that's exactly the point, they wouldn't allow a British heavy bomber to deliver a jointly developed weapon. Britain's atomic program was well in advance of the US, but the US had vast amounts of money they could throw at it. When Britain finally decided they couldn't bankroll the program, the US decided to take the data, scientists and materials and then screw them over. I guess that happens when you preference profit over ethics.
Paul Brickhill in ''The Dam Busters" mentioned the Pacific-Front-bound Lancasters but without the nuclear reference. Wonder why the Americans didn't think of the British Grand Slam and Tall Boy bombs to be used prior to the Iwo Jima landing on mount Suribashi. The tremors could have made many of the tunnels and gun caves collapse. Many American lives would have been saved.
Mark, this is a perfect opportunity to go into Chryslers part in fixing the B-29. They built the first fully air conditioned plant where raw materials went in one end and completed aircraft came out of the other. They also made several thousand improvements to the P&W R-2800 to improve reliability and reduce/eliminate fires. Chrysler also used its experience in chrome plating bumpers to nickel plate the inside of the containment vessels used in the U-235 process. The government thought they needed "inches" of nickel (which was rare at the time) but Chrysler told them they could simply plate. The gov't insisted they had already tried plating and it failed quickly, but Chrysler proved them wrong.
The U235 that Germany had shipped enroute to Japan that ended up in Portsmouth New Hampshire came in gold platted containers. You'll notice that Admiral Donitz was given the least severe sentence of all the big wigs at the Nuremberg trials!
@@MrCountrycuz I had a Chrysler 5th Avenue that ran like a champ. The engine was a straight 6 built tank tough. Got over a quarter million miles on it!
The Lancaster actually carried a larger bomb than the 12,000lb "tallboy"; it carried the largest bomb ever dropped in WW2: the 10 ton (22,000lb) "grand slam".
Good point, but I think Mark was getting at the fact that since the Lanc had shown it could carry a 12,000-lb bomb, that it could manage with the lighter A-bombs, which were around 10,000 lbs each. He does not come out and say that, but I think that's the jist. I am not convinced, however, that it could have carried either Fat Man or Little Boy without some modification to the bay. Fat Man was 5 feet in diameter, and I don't think either the Tall Boy or Grand Slam could be carried with the bay shut. Additionally, there's nothing presented that states the Allies tested a Lanc in such a configuration, so it's debatable whether his range number is accurate as well.
@@virgil81nz I wouldn't say end of story, it still took a great collaboration and Lancaster bomb door gear to engage the mighty task. The B29 took the glory if we can say that, but at a mighty cost. I pray the World has learnt, but great respect for the guys who not only engineered these monstrosities but to the guys, the Heroes, the fliers who flew beyond the call of duty.
@@dcbadger2 You are right about the modifications on Lancasters needed to drop large bombs. The Grand Slam is 26'6" long and almost 4' wide. I have seen footage of a Lancaster carrying and then dropping a Grand Slam. The bomb was basically fitted to the underbelly and took up almost the entire length of the plane's fuselage.
I do not see how a Lanc could have dropped an A bomb and survived. A few weeks ago I was reading an account of Tibbets "little boy" mission. Tibbets spoke about trying to avoid the blast. He calculated that a 159 degree turn and a full power shallow dive gave the best clearance. He also said airspeed on the departure was 464mph. No Lanc could get to the drop altitude or get within 200mph of that B29 silverplate.
So why turn.. come in from the far side and fly in a straight line. If you want more speed add a dive ..for even more speed add rato bottles. Or gryphon engines.. either way a strait line away from the target would put more distance from the bomb than a turn
@@richardoakley8800 bombs arc (well, not really, but they continue forward as they lose altitude, hence why bomb tossing works). By flying straight, you are following the bomb in: not a winning strategy. Even with nukes delivered by later, Mach 2 capable aircraft, the drop was a toss, turn, and run fast (F16, Mig 21bis). Set aside the fact that the Lanc couldn't fit or arm either of the bombs, the plane simply lacked the performance to survive a drop (high likelihood of not making it to the target in the first case, even if it had the range).
Fascinating. I endured the London 'Blitz' as a child, then later enjoyed a 5 year apprenticeship at Handley Pages, building Victors & later test flying in them for 4 years..However, this Mark Felton series tells me oh, so much more than we knew at the time. Thank you.
Sounds like you’ve led an interesting life! Folks such as yourself who have witnessed history, even if it’s only a slice of the whole picture, should be cherished.
Let me get this straight: the B-29 was a superior aircraft, which flew faster and higher and had a greater range, so it was much more likely to survive the blast with its crew -- but choosing to use it over the Lancaster was a matter of national prestige?
@@drott150 Just watched gregs video too and he does a fantastic job proving all of these fantasies wrong. I dont quite get how MFP can see himself as a genuine historian when he twist the history as it pleases him/his purposes. That is (in my book) the definition of a con man.
@@johnburns4017 - what is interesting are the people that spotted the big problems in Mark's story a year ago. Too bad, I liked Mark's work, but not anymore, since it makes me wonder what other stuff he presents as facts that is just distortion.
@@andreasnilsson2304 I really like Felton's videos, but I have noticed some of his videos about British aircraft are presented from a biased nationalistic perspective. His videos on the Vulcan, Lightning and Hurricane ground attack all seemed to be nationalistic instead of purely objective. When I saw this one I didn't know if it was nationalistic, I assumed he wouldn't dare put out something so wildly inaccurate without it being true. And something someone out there would have historical knowledge of to refute him. But it certainly looks like he did. Sad thing is, once you're caught doing this once, it calls into question the veracity of all the other "amazing" videos you've done as well.
@@robertsabasteanski4682 I know, I see all these old posts calling him out. Like they instinctually sensed he was making it up. I didn't know and enjoyed this video when I first saw it. I was very surprised I hadn't heard of this amazing story many years earlier though. Now I know why.
@@drott150 - the telling thing for me was no evidence at all of practice missions. So what did the 'secret squadron' *do* exactly, besides sit around and drink tea?
bc the History Channel rather do reality shows then actually teach history! i remember a time when History , TLC and A&E actually taught us things, ah the 90s and very early 2000s...thems were the days!
The History Channel is nothing but politically correct propaganda, they're actively in the process of rewriting history, Mark Felton actually conveys real history
@@oveidasinclair982 oh very much so, i love how they try and say the Nazi's are on the right and commies are left, nope, socialists and communists are left leading , on the right would be Fascism? maybe? i remember my grade 9 history teacher saying a few times, you want to learn real history, find history books made before 1985 and ww2 docs made before 1985, the world at war is perfect example of being 95% actuate, i was reading Donald Malarkey book, he was in easy company the mini series Band of brothers, he was saying that jewish death camp they stumbled onto in the mini series wasn't even at that town, there was nothing there, there was one 40 miles away. they only added that in to group camps in to the mini series..
I can't think of a better motivator then, "well, if *your* company can't make the bomber work, I guess we'll have to go ask the British; who needs to go into the history books, right?"
At 12:20 “Little Boy was released from 30,000 feet” According to General Paul Tibbets they were at 31,700 feet when the bomb was released. Every bit of altitude mattered then for defense against flak, attacking planes, and escaping the shockwave(s) from the blast.
I’m surprised about the myth part. I was taught in college about the British part of the atomic bomb program and of course the Norwegian part in stopping Germany’s program. From one American to the rest of our WW2 allies, not all of us Americans think we did it all our own! We were blessed with many friends and we needed every single one. Thanks!!
In Europe, the soviets did the heavy lifting. And an argument can be made that China deserves as much credit as the US for defeating the Japanese. Most of the Japanese army was fighting the Chinese during WW2, not the Americans. The scale of the battles and operations in the Chinese theater dwarf what occurred in Guadalcanal or even Okinawa. However, the Chinese didn’t have the resources or the technology to get close to the Japanese islands and finish them off. The US did that part (with help from the brits and soviets). Signed: another American
I've never heard any American say that we WWII all on our own. It's only natural that we concentrate on studying our role in the war. I would expect someone from China or Brazil to be more interested in their own history than in what others have done.
@@dhowe5180 I bet Hitler & Tojo would have loved those extra 350,000-400,000 Italian troops, 250,000-350,000 German troops tided down in North Africa or the 210,000 Japanese checked at the Indian border.
@ Well, yes I should expect so, since the British government shipped all the information on the nuclear bomb to the US. That detailed scientific and technical information got the Manhattan project started, without it the project would have taken years longer!
Great Britain did indeed contribute immensely valuable scientific information to the war effort here in the US. Not only in the development of atomic weapons but the cavity magnetron (radar) but the Whittle jet engine, proximity fuses, and numerous others. GB was not eager to share all this information with a bunch moneygrubbing Yankee's but fully understood that the US was in a far better position to develop these tools to end the war. In the end I am not sure they were well treated by those covetous Yankee's. Look up the Tizzard Mission. I am from the north and lining in the south so I am a "damnyankee" That's one word.
In terms of aerospace. The British were leaders and innovators. Amazing aircraft and jets for decades, all the way until the 80s. Now maybe even the 2020s with the Tempest being built.
Mark, Maybe you and Greg should have a friendly, professional conversation and share your sources with each other so that we can get a clear picture of what actually happened. It seems clear that U.S. national pride certainly played a role, yet Greg makes some good points.
@@minkymoo4794 Calling this video "Fact challenged" isn't nationalistic. There's plenty of comments that attack the lack of facts without being political about it. Then there's even more comments screeching in a British accent about how wrong those are.
Great job!! Amazing how much is still coming out after all these years. Love when your on the WW2 podcast. Always an interesting conversation you and Angus have!!
Already suscribed, one of the best history channels on TH-cam, Is amazing the footage you have, I have years studying history and is the first Time i watch these ww2 videos
I wound either, because the lancater cant reach hiroshima.. lol there were some designs to carry a 22000 pound "grand slam" bomb but none could carry enough fuel .. how do I know this? Here in Hamilton Ontario we have one of the 2 FLYING lancasters in the world..
Harley Me yes but it is not one of the "Black " Lancasters is it? Equipped with the air to air refuelling rig. So a Black Lancaster would have been able to reach Hiroshima, and drop the A bomb. Or did you not actually listen to Marks commentary? The Lanc was THE superior bomber of WW2 with it's 10 ton payload. And before long we will have the third flying Lancaster also, up at East Kirkby Lincolnshire, now being fully restored there.
@@harleyme3163 The film taken at Hiroshima shows a fortress in the sky before the bomb went off..It can be viewed in the museum in Hiroshima...also there were no soldiers there .140,00 women children OAPs and koreans were killed. a further 140,000 died assiting with the clear up. This is a muck raking video taking the dirt from USA
@@harleyme3163 Yes it could ..the lanc could fly from tinian to hiroshima but it would need to refuel for the return journey...that would mean landing at iwo jima or okinawa which is precisely what the "bockscar" did before returning to tinian.
@@yamsi12 Yes a good historian always cites his sources..Greg did a wonderful job of dismissing this video with credible evidence and proven facts..i respect greg more than felton at this stage.
After reading the title and for the first minutes of this video, I was afraid I had slipped out to an alternative universe with a slight different history. I watched all the video mostly to rule out that had happened
I had to go get some supplies so I'm late. Just when you thought you knew most of WW2 history Mark throws a wrench in your knowledge. Thanks for the video.
Theres some head-exploding debates going on down below (which I'm going to sidestep this time) but it is impossible not to be intrigued by the fact that a British squadron of Black Lancasters was kept on the side just in case issues with the B-29 prevented them from dropping the A-bomb, a great historical 'what-if ?' Totally accept that the B-29 was better in this role but the slower speed and lower maximum ceiling meant that the crews in the Lancs would have got a nasty bump when the things went off. What a Pepsi Challenge that would have been though, eh ?
Paul Franciosi we see the " City of Lincoln" the Lancaster of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight quite often, as it flies over my house on its way to Buckingham Palace on any state occasion that has a flyby in connection withWW2 anniversaries . Along with all the other fantastic aircraft one after the other. The slow lumbering stuff first then the Spitfires and Hurricanes, the Lancaster then more modern big stuff, then second to last the fast Jets and finally the Red Arrows, a super display and all for free!
I remember the Lancaster on a pole by the waterfront. Big part of my childhood being able to see that. I don't know what it's fate was, whether they restored it or not
sbentjies It was in the process of being restored at the Canadian Aerospace Museum at Downsview, same place that had the full size Arrow mockup but they lost funding. I think a bunch of the stuff, including the Arrow, are at an airport museum north of Toronto, Edenvale airport near camp Borden
The first B-29's struck Japan in November of 1944 from their bases in Saipan. By March of 1945, the firebombing of Tokyo by B-29's proved the B-29 type as fully operational. Stateside, in March of 1944, American crews flying B-29's out of first Muroc (Edwards) and later Wendover Field in Utah were dropping "shapes," concrete versions of the two bomb types, exact in dimension and weight to the nuclear weapons they were to drop over Japan. Tibbets alone is estimated to have dropped nearly 40 of these "shapes" into the Utah Salt Flat range area. This was fully 17 months before the August 1945 Hiroshima drop. The first atomic weapons were not loaded onboard the battleship Indianapolis until July, 1945. By VJ day, August 14, 1945, 3000 B-29's were delivered and in service in combat. This was only weeks after the first Hiroshima bombing. The B-29 had a bomb load of 20,000 lbs with the full range of 3250 mi. The Lancaster has carried the 22,000lb Grand Slam weapon but, this greatly diminished the range of the aircraft. To suggest the B-29 "couldn't do it" conflicts with the facts we now know. Yes, the B-29 was the most expensive and technically challenging weapons program in US wartime history, costing even more than the Manhattan Project itself but, issues and problems with both programs were resolved simultaneously. The Lancaster program may have been a prudent back-up plan but, even the Lancaster required some modification, not including the air refueling hose system only perfected in November of 1944. Modification of tanker and bomber aircraft for this system would have taken time and in November of 1944, the B-29 was already flying missions over Japan without the need for aerial refueling.
Well said Sir. I was born in England and am a very staunch supporter of our island nation friends, but this video takes great poetic license to play up what was only ever a faint possible back up plan. Back up plans are often three and four layers deep. Still it was entertaining.
OCnStiggs...Your outline of events is great, but actually B-29s began striking targets in Japan before November, 1944, from airfields in Cheng-du, China
Greg's Airplanes and Automobile TH-cam channel just completely debunked this entire video. It's shocking how much of this story Mark Felton told is complete fantasy. Mark Felton should be ashamed of himself. Check out Greg's video that he just uploaded moments ago.
@Hunter D Bias 4 is a reference to a game called "War Thunder" a military vehicle sim where players use aircrafts and tanks to fight eachother over objectives. The TU-4 in the game was made to be unrealistically stronger than other bombers which an inside joke developed. Calling the plane Russian bias.
At 4:15 video correctly states that Los Alamos Lab "realized" that the B-17 and B-24 could not deliver the A Bombs. However Los Alamos Lab was founded in 1943 well after the B-29 prototype first flew so the higher ups at the lab knew the B-29 was on its way as well as the Consolidated B-32 Dominator which was backup aircraft for the B-29 .
Sure, Bob, we never lost in the North West Frontier in the 1700s either. Nice context shift from 1066 to centuries later, guess you don’t want to talk about the various losses between those two points. Where did you buy those rose-tinted glasses? The beret tells me all I need to know about where you get your opinions though. Funny how soldaten alpha male wannabes are the ones to throw out the “triggered” thing when presented with arguments they can’t handle.
@Bob Saunders yes, we were great at attacking anyone whose weaponry was no more dangerous than a sharpened cumquat. Where is Lord Chelmsford, I ask? He did brilliantly at Isandlwana. If this triggers you, I’m sorry, but the mistakes made by the military and the leadership are absolutely shocking when compared with the triumphs. Not that the British government could have frozen Imperial German ambitions for war in 1914 if it firmly announced that it would join a war with France and Russia (read The Sleepwalkers instead of The Sun) I’m going to do us both a favour, and remember the wise words. “Streiten nicht mit ein Dummkopf”
@@W4rM4chine82 with the exception of 1812 and Vietnam, I can't recall the U.S. losing much. And the outcome of 1812 was a truce that cost us nothing and Vietnam only cost the Vietnamese to have to be communist. So that's two wars that really didn't do anything to negatively impact us in the long run. So enlighten me on the victories you claim were not.
My ol Uncle Earnie was a rear tailgunner in the Lancaster bomber.He was involved in 80 odd sorties over Europe. He would be disgusted at what's been allowed to happen to the once Great Britain. We forever hold onto the fighting Churchill spirit ol mate. Thank you Earnie for your dedication,service and sacrifice in fighting to preserve and protect our security, safety,identity,freedom ,values and way of life. RIP Ol Earnie. From a relative in Australia. 👍🦘🇦🇺👍🇺🇸🦅👍🇬🇧🌹
Always fair and objective in these historical sketches, I finish viewing them feeling an affinity for the fine British, knowing how much suffering they endured in WWII, thank you Mark
@ROL G Songwriter - No ads in here ! The British rations were far from being starvation rations. In fact, the rationing made the average Brit eat healthier. The average caloric intake and life expectancy both increased under rationing.
I am glad it was mentioned how the Manhatten projects was an allied effort. My Grandmother was a nurse and at one point was a mental health nurse. She once cared for a man institutionalized who worked on the project as a scientist. He had a severe mental breakdown. He one day could not stand the concept that he was helping to build something that could kill thousands in an instant. The sheer thought of cities wiped out with one bomb, civilians unaware yet gone in a flash was too much for him. He was Canadian and was institutionalized in a Canadian mental hospital and never fully recovered to my knowledge or my Grandmother's.
That scientist was a hero: he contributed to build a tool which stopped EVIL Emperial Japan which refused to surrender and use they civilians as last shield to prolonge the WW2, WITHOUT atomic bomb the casualities of both alliies and japanese side would be far higher than the people who just died during atomic explosion. Thousands are dead but tha scientists also save, possibly millions of lives!
@@techo4Ugeeks if you actually listened to the video and learnt your history you would know that the Japanese weren't surrendering at all and carried on fighting across Asia, the nukes were justified.
leon leon They refused to surrender after the second one also. The only reason they didn’t get the third one is because it wasn’t ready and hadn’t been shipped from the mainland yet. The week’s time delay from the last bomb and the threat of a third bomb made them look closer at their situation which caused them to finally give up.
Omg, this peice of information is awesome awesome awesome😍😍😍..................soon mr.felton plz release a book or documtentry .....we love you and we support u : from India
Sorry, but that's pur fabrication in that video. The RAF never flew over Japan, not with the Lancaster and not even with the Lincoln. MArk Felton has a lot of imagination. He should write fiction. He probably found that information in the Matrix while talking to Neo or the Oracle.
@@KorgKapperi Yep annoying because they know each other and later one show that heagrees with him to show he's telling the truth.. When in fact thats pur bullshit, the RAF never dropped the a-bomb on Japan. The never flew over Japan, the war was over before they could create the Tiger Quadron.
@@TammoKorsai +1. We have little (nothing?) concrete to substantiate this so-called Black Lancaster squadron and plenty of info (pictures, videos, records, etc.) on the Silverplate B-29s. That more-or-less tells you all you need to know.
@@johnburns4017 The USA has nothing to be embarrassed about. The B-29 proved its suitability for delivering atomic weapons on those fateful days in August 1945. The Lancaster, on the other hand, never dropped any atomic bomb and so its suitability for the role was never, and never will be, proven.
@joanne chon If you believe that you will also believe that Kanye West is on the presidential ballot in eight states, running as the nominee of the Birthday Party.
Interesting, the old locals around Enstone still speak of the Black Lancasters based at airfield in the latter stages of WW2, nobody knew what they were there for are what they were training for, until Now thanks Mark very interesting and informative documentary
I have studied WW2 as a hobby since I was a teenager I have never heard of this plan But then I have never read about half the stuff you teach us about You Sir, are doing a remarkable job Thank you
Not that surprising really, at the end of the day they didn't have to actually do it, so as interesting as it was theres no real reason you would have heard about it.
You haven’t heard of it because it never happened, unfortunately. This video is meant to earn views, not advance historical knowledge. I like Mark’s work, but he’s somewhat too motivated by profit on occasion.
The recent explosion in Beirut could be the largest explosion in a city since dropping of the Atom Bombs on the cities Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Mark's videos are perfectly timed.
@Crom the Wise Well, then you shouldn't ask. I would say I was both appalled and amused by the remark. I would also caution against assessing the content of my character based on one comment. I do think that all too often, we can be quick to express self-righteousness and condemn others for what could be an attempt at humorous word play. I'll leave it at that.
As a teen I built a B-29 model, and noticing the 2 bomb bays, I had half wondered about center of mass issues with the atomic bombs. The kit included decals for Enola Gay and Bockscar, but there was no reference to modifications to the bays, so this is all new information for me.
@@thommysides4616 It was the only model available at the time. I built the bigger scale model only for it to crash and burn in a gasoline fire in my backyard.
I can well believe this story. The late Mike "Lancaster At War" Garbett was a very good friend of mine and he told me that amongst many thousands of aircrew interviews which he conducted, one related to an officer based at an un-named Midlands or Cambridgeshire aerodrome. This officer, who had an excellent Squadron operational record, told Mike that there was a gap in his wartime RAF time for which he could not give details. The officer added that once a year he would receive a personal visit from "men from a certain London department" who would carefully quiz him about any approach which might had been made to him about this mysterious time, and caution him never to give any information on the matter. Mike's opinion about this was that the unit involved was testing gas-dropping operations, but in the light of this documentary, I can see another side to it.
Many such personnel are reluctant to discuss their involvement but I would urge him to at least write his memories down for posterity [perhaps deposit them with the IWM or similar], otherwise another small piece of the jigsaw of history might be lost.
Do you have a source for the "Black Lancasters" story? A National Archives document number, book title, interviewee name, or anything like it would be greatly appreciated. There's nothing online definitively linking the "Black Lancasters" to the atomic mission so I'm excited to see the smoking gun you found. Any chance of sharing the source in the description?
There have been references to the Black Lancasters at Enstone on the internet for around fifteen years. Most seem to suggest that they were part of Tiger Force, but the following was posted in July 2006. :- 'I have come across a reference to early nuclear weapons when they had predicted problems with the B29 design. It actually has 2 bomb bays with the wing spar between them, in action bombs being dropped simultaneously from front and rear bays. Dropping one very large bomb would require cutting through the main spar and rearranging the bay. The alternative was to use an existing bomber with a big enough bomb bay; the only one available being the Lancaster. Further tests however proved the B29 'silver plate' modification being suitable for the mission. This not only involved altering the bomb bay but also removing all possible excess weight, including all defensive armament. As a standard Lancaster would not have had the range required, in-flight refueling would have been essential.'
@@dovetonsturdee7033 That's the gist of what I was able to find as well. There's ZERO definitive proof these Lancasters even existed beyond online rumors that they did. And if they did exist, there are far more plausible alternative theories for their mission. Dr. Felton doesn't give a date for the Lancaster's arrival beyond "1943." The lack of specificity there is a bit dodgy in an of its own right, but it's what we have to work with. So what was going on 1943? Tallboy. Barnes Wallis' Tallboy bomb was being developed. Here's the timeline from Stephen Flower "The Dam Busters: An Operational History of Barnes Wallis' Bombs. " Wallis got the go-ahead to develop Tallboy in July 1943 and he tested the first Tallboy Small at Orford Ness in December 1943. The first full-sized Tallboys were dropped (by 617 Squadron Lancasters, I believe) In April-May 1944 at the Ashley Walk bombing range. Enstone is within spitting distance of the two key facilities involved in the Tallboy trials, the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscmobe Down in Wiltshire and the Ashley Walk bombing range in Hampshire. This fits up well with the "Black Lancasters" rumor. 1943-1944 timeline? Check. Logical reason to be at Enstone? Check. Modified bomb bay doors? Check. Secretive weapons development program? Check. Based on this, it seems far more likely to me that the "Black Lancasters" were involved in Tallboy development or a similar project at Boscombe Down. It's also possible the Black "Lancasters" were involved in SOE Special Duties missions. Unmarked black Halifaxes were routinely used for this task and it's possible that the "Lancasters" in the rumor were misidentified by an onlooker. There were missions (ex. the June 1944 drops of SAS jeeps) that could have required the modification or removal of bomb bay doors. Lancasters weren't offered for use in the East until the Second Quebec Conference in September 1944, so I don't think the Tiger Force theory holds a lot of water. The vague "1943" date Dr. Felton gives also clashes with what we know about the B-29 Silverplate program. If the Lancasters went to Enstone in late 1943, that doesn't make much sense. Darrell F. Dvorak's piece in Airpower History makes it clear that 1) the B-29 was definitively chosen to carry the bomb by June 1943 and 2) the first Silverplate B-29 was ready for testing by November 1943. It'd have been odd for the AAF in 1943 to also twist the RAF's arm into setting aside a half-dozen precious Lancasters when it already had chosen the B-29.... If they went there in early 1943, that doesn't make much sense, either. The first full-scale drop tests with test shapes of the A-bomb weren't being done until February 1944 (and they were being done in the US...) so there wouldn't have been anything for the Black Lancasters to practice dropping for nearly a year... I really, really hope Dr. Felton can share his sources and shed some more light on the matter.
@@flashbackhistory8989 It does seem that the Lancasters existed, but everything beyond that, including what their purpose was, can only be speculation. The likelihood of the release of any government papers revealing anything more definite is, I suspect, remote. After all, the papers dealing with the sinking of HMS Glorious off Norway in 1940 are still not in the public domain.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm starting to realize as well. Unless Dr. Felton can produce a smoking gun, then this video is just shaky guesswork being dressed up as ironclad fact. Come 2043, the 100-year rule will be up and any documents should be declassified and we'll know for sure. In either event, I still think the Tallboy or the SOE explanations are by far the most likely scenario s. It's just so far-fetched to assume the USAAF would have entrusted nukes to the RAF. If only Lancasters would do, why not simply Reverse Lend-Lease some Lancasters (as the Americans ahd already done with Spitfires, Beaufighters, and Mosquitos)?
Good to know the British had our backs and would have done what was necessary to make the missions happen. I'm glad not from political standpoint, but a moral one that the British did not have to fly those missions. Every WW2 vet I've spoken with felt it was necessary but even they saw it as a tragic and terrible thing to have to do. The British people had endured more than their share in WW2, so I'm glad they didn't have to live with carrying this horrible part of the war also.
I think morality was a bit out the window at that point, with massive "total war" bombing of cities that the Brits were very much complicit with. I'm not making judgement about it, but an observation. The Dresden bombing is a prime (and horrible) example . The difference with the nukes is the perception of power (one aircraft, one bomb vs the resources the other raids required) that ultimately caused Japan to understand the waste in continuing. Yes, it was ALL terrible and a damn shame that the war escalated so out of control.
David Hollenshead I am not sure about the reliability, the Merlin was a darn good engine and the engines in the B29 were prone to overheating and fires. Both good planes though.
@@Whitpusmc Agreed! The Merlin was a superb engine that made the reputation of the P-51 Mustang. Imagine if the Mustang had been fitted with a huge radial!! 🤮
" Every WW2 vet I've spoken with felt it was necessary but even they saw it as a tragic and terrible thing to have to do" - Debatable as the Atomic bomb dropping was just a demonstration of power & the Japanese would have surrendered once the Russians entered the war !
Very interesting, my Grandfather Alfred “Bottles” Highfield was with the British war ministers and had to come up with ways to defuse various designs of German bombs during the blitz, he designed an anti flash for artillery and was involved on the British side re atomic research before the Americans came on board. Never found much more, I believe there was a research centre near Ide Hill he worked at also. Must have known a bit as he had to work up in Scotland with Americans keeping a close eye after the war when the Russians were after atomic scientists. Tried finding more information but to no avail.
Where did you get your info. The Russian never looked for scientist, they got technical details and lot more from a few of the physicist present at the Los Alamos Mahanttan Project site. Klaus Fuchs was one of the spies that gave detailed information to the Russian Intelligence services of the time. They found 6 that spied for Russia after the was was over and before the H-Bomb was created. The Russian were looking for scientist and engineers that worked on rockets in Peenemünde after the surrender of Germany.
My uncle and Nova Net instructor did or knew secret squirrel stuff during Nam, and my brother did secret stuff during OIF. The fact that men like them can at best only allude to things and can only confirm they had a security clearance and were aboard a certain ship, base, etc is quite intriguing given the fact that more than likely they have to take many details to there graves.
Jed-Henry Witkowski only heard snippets from father, I was not to ask grandad about the war. My father said grandad was troubled by the atomic project.
My Dad was the radio officer on Tinian in 1945, USAAF. A part of his crews' responsibilities was to confirm or repair radios on all landing aircraft due to the long over-water distances aircraft traveled from Tinian.
The crew which attempted to service the Enola Gay was told they could not board the aircraft for any reason and were sent away. They reported to Capt. Thompson this state of affairs and he hopped into a jeep with his radio techs to go disabuse the plane captain of the notion he needn't check his radios.
He found Military Police, well armed, holding a perimeter at some distance from the bomber. He too was ordered away. Later came the announcement of the first A-bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
jesus, this was probably 100% between Churchill and Truman only. Scary stuff.
Aaaau
Probably less than one hundred people knew the full secret including the target and what the bomb could do
That’s a great story
That a a really good piece of family history there.
Well, every day is a school day. I had never heard of this before.
@@MrDaiseymay : If you are addressing your remark to me, no it is not surprising.
I am interested in this period of history but I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any means.
I am just fascinated by these little side-stories that bring a more personal facet to the operations. It also lends itself to a greater admiration for that generation and the sacrifices they had to make.
They were not found wanting, in their stubborn courage or fortitude to see the job through to the end, no matter the danger involved.
I for one, am immensely proud of them and what they achieved.
I had heard of Tube Alloys, but not the Lancaster part of it. Mark Felton always delivers (no bombing pun intended).
@Gideons Word : Life is a series of what ifs. If Japan had not bombed Pearl Harbour, there would have been no need for the US to go to war with them and no need to drop these two bombs.
If Hitler had kept his word and not invaded Poland, Life would probably be much different.
If I was rich instead of good - looking... well you get the idea. 😂
OFF COURSE BECAUSE THEY FEEL A SHAME OF THEM THEMSELVES TO KEEP IT SECRET BUT IT ISN'T
@@flak8842,
That's a self refuting statement. You called it a secret and in the same sentence said it isn't a secret.
This channel is the single greatest channel on TH-cam.
L
My Dad was in a Japanese POW Camp when he and his fellow Prisoners Of War heard an entire Japanese city was leveled by a single bomb. They weren't curious about the bomb they were trying to imagine how big the plane would need to be to drop a bomb that big! 😄
We had a wwii vet who was a pow in Japan. When he saw the bomb blow up one of the cities, the japs started treating them better. He knew the war was ending soon.
my uncle was in a pow camp in japan at the end of the war as well. both your dad and my uncle were fortunate to survive. many many japanese pows died,
I met Paul Tibbets, the pilot who dropped the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima. He knew and said my time, we shook hands and talked. I have a photo of us together. It was at the air force base. He was a tough old man let me tell you. So interesting to have met him.
I wont shook his hand since the bomb he drop killed innocent. Killed innocent and i repeat again he killed innocent.
@@mohammadbazzi3072 you do realize it was the bombs or the death of millions instead of just a few hundred thousand, correct? It was the far lesser of 2 evils. 2 bombs which kill a few 100,000, or a full ground invasion which wouldve pushed the war to 1946 and killed millions more.
@@AdmiralWillisLee1942 Ill add far more died in comventional bombing raids overall. Dresden comes to mind (Its uncomfirmed how many were killed due to a mass influx of both PoWs and refugees).
This was the major point of producing the atomic bomb, a pyschological shock that swiftly neutralized a large target.
War is not pretty and its not kind. Its war.
Glad to see its become fairly common knowledge how awful Operation Downfall would have been
@@mohammadbazzi3072 a rather extreme example of the trolley problem
So what...??
I served on a High Security Military Base in Canada. That was when I found out that the Altitude Trigger for Little Boy was developed at that High Security Base in Canada.
Funny thing is that the little boy atomic bomb was produced solely in America and so was the altitude trigger so yeah
@Allington Marakan It was made in the US with UK advanced technology , the UK was not a safe place to continue with development , sorry to piss on your US parade
@Allington Marakan with a lot of British know how )))
@@Gay_Nigga_Hoodmoments The Canadians knew that the Altitude Trigger was being made for some type of Bomb but did not know it was for an Atomic Bomb. They thought it was for some large Conventional Bomb.
@Allington Marakan Well stated! Those military personnel that were with the first wave of the occupation forces entering Japan said the defenses that were established and the war Lord's refusal to concede would of taken nearly a year to overcome and of cost possibly a million more lives, most of those lives Japanese civilians.
I recently visited the Bomber Command Air Museum in Nanton Alberta. Where one of the four still functional Lancasters in the world is housed.
They're a lot, A LOT bigger then I thought.
There are only two flying Lancs, that's one of them, the RAF have the other.
@@leggyemulous5335 there are 4 functional and 2 flying (soon to be 3)
Thought there were only two flyable Lancaster's. One in Hamilton here in Canada and the other in England. Last I heard there's a couple on both sides of the pond that were almost air worthy. The one in Can. left T.O to B.C to be restored. The Brits' have one that can "taxi" but not fly, something to do with the main spar I think.
Driven by multiple times, I’ll have to stop next time.
@@chrisfreestone4136 the taxi one is "Just Jane" they're planning and making it air worthy, they're even building a bigger runway to accommodate it but itlle be around 5-7 years until that happens
My grandfather worked on(RAF mechanic) Hurricanes and Lancasters. He was on one of the last convoys out of Dunkirk, and then spent 3 years in the North African campaign. By all accounts, he was never the same man when he came home. Their convoy if 3 trucks was harried by the Luftwaffe all the way to the beach on the escape from France and the truck behind his took a direct hit, killing 20 or so of his mates. They were all sitting looking out the back of the middle truck when the bomb hit.
God bless him.
Learn something new every day from Dr Mark Felton
The could of hung it up right next to " The dam busters". Interesting, I had never even heard of this idea, or mission. They shure cover up a lot of history, don't they?.
Welcome to mark felton university history
Mark: **Mentions Black Lancasters**
Lancaster University ad: Hello
@Preston Nelson weird shiz just keeps getting worse. Need to get back to simpler life before these people had our grandfathers and great grandfathers destroy themselves in my opinion.
Black Lancasters matter. Where's my t-shirt.
Phones are hearing everything we say. Stasi would have an easy life these days.
@@datadavis I'm at the point that they can have my phone. I'm getting pretty fed up with that intrusion as well.
I'm literally studying maths at Lancaster Uni. Small world.
Man'o, man, just when you think you know all that there's is to know about something, along comes Mark Felton.
I recently posted this on the other site involved in this spat.
Now many years ago! My then girl friend's Dad was a Sqn Ldr Rtd Bomb Aimer. Over far too much home made wine we discussed things "blue" and this very subject came up. Now dimmed in the mist of time it went something like this:
He had been detached to RAF ? to join a small mob of bomb lobbers to look at various attack profiles which included vigorous avoidance action after release of a ten ton bomb. Once done, he went back to the main force. After the bomb was dropped the penny dropped with it. He left the RAF in 46.. The reason he said was "I had no wish to drop a nuke from a Lanc or any other kite".
This conversation took place about 1970 something when I was at 1 Group.
I post this purely for your info
the early air to air refueling experiment is a hidden gem here.
And totally understated... just ask Argentina.
as a small boy, I learned of experiments in England oncerning Airiel Re-Fuelling that'd be late forties early fifties. With RAF Uncles,and living near an A.V.Roe's Factory where my Aunts worked during the war my head was filled with all manner of wonders, and then at 17, I joined the RAF for 15 yearts and learned far more than I ever did at school. Recallin also an interesting Australian input when Silver City Airways and their Bristol Freighters commenced the very first Air Transport of cars in Bristol Freighters across the channel, ever since those days, I have had connections with Aircaft oif all descriptions and abilities.
Especially that it worked at best 1 out of 10 times.
Didn't know about this. As expected you are literally our historian teacher
YT History Teacher, but with more fun to know trivials!
Always a fun class when listening to his stories.
Except he introduced bogus (because the B-29s were successfully modified and tested long before August 6th) commentary about "National prestige (winning) the day". Your history teacher even admitted the Lancaster mission would have been riskier.
@@RonJohn63 Not bogus at all.
America was (still is) very chauvinistic about who builds their tackle.
Eg. Henry Ford would not fit the British 17 pounder gun onto his Shermans.
Fascinating!
@@g8ymw #1 Since when is it chauvinistic to use the safer and more practical aircraft? Even Felton admitted using the Lancaster would have been much more dangerous than the B-29! #2 The US readily used British tech when practical. #3 Even now, the US uses license-produced German guns in it's tanks, and used a British gun before that. #4 We didn't want the British 17 pounder because it was took up too much space inside the turret, and did just fine with our own guns. (The Chieftan has multiple videos on the subject.)
There is also another type of bomb that the British used called the "Grand Slam" it was 22,000 lbs.
@Chistopher M. Theodore how did you got 13 hours when it was just uploaded 2 mins ago?
From future
@@daichishimmura9886 probably early access
@@daichishimmura9886 Patreon
The Bielefeld Viaduct.
Your video is interesting but seems to be full of bold claims with zero citations to back them up.
You seem to be vastly over-stating development difficulties with the B-29 and vastly understating the difficulties that Lancasters had with needed modifications and range as well as in-flight refueling testing.
Please list your source stating that the B-29 wing spar needed to be cut and redesigned on Silverplate B-29s. I can find no such reference of such a thoroughly drastic modification.
👍
Honestly, this makes me question the validity of his other videos. I hope Mark Felton corrects this.
Feltons Fantasies NUKED by GREG!
@@michaeljack6277 the mushroom cloud is still setting.
Trust me, there was no cutting and re-designing of any wing spar. Its practically impossible to deviate much from origin designs as that equates to an entirely new wing and therefore aircraft.
Beam theory is well established and would have been computed to the Nth degree. And a prototype would have been static loaded to its operational limits.
To carry an additional load above and beyond its structural design would only require a modification to its operating limitations. I.e. a reduced limit load factor and prohibition from flying in severe turbulence.
Additional fuel is carried in its wings. Larger more powerful engines are also located along the wingspan. Any additional weight from either will tend to reduce wing root bending moment, as the weight of these additional items under G-loads acts downward, against the wings lift and in opposition to additional structural loads.
The B-29 is, for all intents and purposes, the pinnacle of Piston Multi-Engined Aircraft. It still holds the altitude record in its class. And the Soviets copied the B-29, because they couldn't do any better in that era.
I went to high school in Los Alamos from 1971 - 1973. I played in my first USCF (Chess) tournament there, and at least two of my opponents were LASF scientists. One of them was James Tuck, the man who came up with the idea of using an explosive shell to contain the Plutonium of the "Fat Boy" dropped on Nagasaki. He was British, VERY British. In fact, he was a caricature of a 40'a British intellectual: Tall, lanky, with wild hair and bad teeth, and a Sherlock Holmes style pipe topping it all off. Sitting on his balcony with his hand carved wooden set overlooking the bridge that separated the labs from the residential area of Los Alamos was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. A year later in a College Physics course, we saw a film about fusion power (STILL not quite there) in which he lectured. Years later I read about him in "Dark Sun" (I think) by Richard Rhoades, his second book about making the atomic weapons, this one about fusion bombs. But it may have been in his first book called "The Making of the Atomic Bomb". Both GREAT books, highly recommended.
Awesome post!!!
Yes, they were gun type weapon triggers in which an explosive charge at one end of a tube fired a sphere of U235 at another sphere of U235 to achieve critical mass. This was surrounded by high explosive which detonated at the precise required instant, generating the explosive compression required to initiate the atomic reaction.
Lovely story, thanks for sharing
My father was a civilian scientist on the team that developed the implosion detonator for Fat Man. He was at Trinty and was scheduled to be the inflight armorer on the Nagasaki mission, but I was due to be born then so he traded positions with a Navy officer.
@J Calhoun yes J, you are of course, correct. Poor editing on my part. Thankyou for pointing out my error
I was travelling by slow train from Oxford to Reading, as we reached the Chiltern Hills I noticed what I thought was an unusual looking 'Red Kite' in the distance, that dipped between the rolling hills. Suddenly the unmistakable roar of 4 Merlin engines broke the relative silence and a Lancaster Bomber came sweeping low over the train tracks passing directly above us and continuing up the valley. It was a beautifully clear, sunny spring day and all the markings on the aircraft were easily visible. There were only around 10 people in our carriage, but everyone had their heads out of the windows witnessing this awesome display. I believe that the aircraft had been at Farnborough and like many aircraft in wartime, was following the train tracks, northwards home. A truly unforgettable experience. 👍😊
Those old "Warbirds" still present such a presence when they fly by. Now we have snowflake politicians here in the USA trying to ground these planes. That plane sitting in a museum or hanger does not demonstrate the enormous presence of one in its environment. Nothing less than living history.
Had a similar experience in Lincoln one Saturday afternoon. I was at the top of Steep Hill and I, and everyone else along the dead straight axis of Steep Hill and the High Street could see and hear a Lancaster flying towards us from the south. Everyone just stopped and turned their heads upwards towards it. It was a totally unforgettable experience.
@@nottmjas I guarantee you that I would of been one looking skyward also!
@@ronfullerton3162 Hello there! I live in Norfolk in East Anglia where much of the 8th Air Force was based. The village where I live has a road named after the B17 that crashed on it (thankfully the crew were uninjured). Nearby is another village where two young USN aircrew are buried, losing their lives in a Mosquito whilst training for night fighter operations. Their graves are beautifully maintained by the local people and I visit them regularly to pay my respects. I often visit the Imperial War Museum Duxford which has a wonderful collection of American aircraft. As you approach the American collection there is a glass wall; it has 52 panels with the outlines of 7, 031 aircraft engraved upon it, each one commemorating a US aeroplane missing in action operating from Britain during the Second World War. It brings home the sacrifice of those young men. The museum hosts incredible warbird flying displays. Every November 11th, after our local Remembrance Day service, I go to lay a wreath on the graves of the young USN boys. I hope that this is of some interest to you and that it shows that the loss of those brave young men and the aircraft in which they flew are not forgotten.
@@grendelgrendelsson5493 Thank you so much, Grendel, on not only your thoughts but what you have done for the fallen. There were spats during the war of nationalism, but luckily cooler heads maintained. After all, a house divided cannot stand. It was because the Allies were United that they succeeded. This effort on the A bomb by so many illustrates the combined stance against the enemy. And yet today, we see in these comments how people from all the parties involved are pulling different ways forgetting the unity that actually achieved this project. Not one Allie could of stood alone against the Axis. Each Allie supplied good men and good equipment towards the war effort. Many Allied soldiers lived the horrors of the war and many gave their lives. The men and machines of all World War Two nation's need to be remembered so that maybe we can resist doing this ever again. Thanks once again Grendel for your grateful thoughts and care given to the fallen!
This is exactly what I subscribed for: impeccable content!
There is a 'Lancaster experience' available at the Imperial War Museum Duxdord, well worth it.
There are some factually incorrect statements in this video. When Norman Ramsey presented the two bomb descriptions, the Little Boy bomb did not exist. The two bombs considered in the 1943 dates in this presentation (and still in development stage.....not actual bombs) were both Plutonium bombs designs. One.......a gun-type bomb of 17 foot length dubbed "Thin Man", the other an implosion bomb "Fat Man" basically as described. "Little Boy" did not exist at the time. The "Thin Man" Plutonium bomb was deemed impractical when further scientific analysis revealed predetonation would occur using any practical speed generated for the projectile. The "Thin Man" Plutonium bomb design was discarded, and "Little Boy" replaced it. A Uranium gun-type bomb of 10 foot length. This obviated any further discussion using Avro Lancasters. The "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" bomb designs would fit in the front bomb bays of B-29s. The B-29 did require some beefing up of the bomb bay interiors to carry the ~10,000 pound weight of either weapon.
That Norman Ramsey was in love with the Lancaster is a stretch. His synopsis report of Project Alberta is online (History of Project A). The Lancaster was the only bomber at the time (fall of 1943) which could carry "Thin Man" in a bomb bay interior.......and there was a mention of using Lancasters in testing while the B-29 modifications were being modified. The idea was rejected....with Ramsey's blessing.
If this was a special squadron dedicated to atomic bomb missions........just exactly what training do they do? They were not involved in the 155 test bombs which B-29s dropped to refine the shape and aerodynamics of the bombs.......nor any of the fusing systems that were developed in these tests.
Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles has put the boot into this video in a detailed half hour refutation... "nonsense"
Greg NUKED Feltons fantasy 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@michaeljack6277in his own mind. 😆
@@dougie1968 Just watched his videos and it's not just in his mind it just makes sense.
I actually know a gentleman who sings in my church's choir (before Covid closed everything). He was among those who trained to drop the first atomic bombs, I don't recall what position he was, but he ended up as part of the backup bomber's crew.
Edit: He was part of a B29 crew.
So this guy is about 105 years old?
Many such personnel are reluctant to discuss their involvement but please urge him to at least write his memories down for posterity otherwise another small piece of the jigsaw of history might be lost.
I had the great honour in meeting Leonard Cheshire, an amazing man, who achieved much.
Nice.
I met Douglas Bader 👍
I met Dollar.
The buried headline here is the development of the air refueling system, TRULY revolutionary.
Seriously. Who cares about some dumb old bomb? We use that refueling system every day.
@@RobMacKendrick Sometimes I wish I could do that with my car.🤗😂😁
I had to pause and just sit there as i heard that... air refueling in the 40s sounds insane to me, but i guess so do jets in the 40s
@@SilvrCoconut wait till you hear aerial refueling was experimented in the 20s and jet engines were starting to be researched in the early 30s, crazy how fast aerial aviation advanced in less than 40 years.
@@SilvrCoconut I was similarly stunned when I first read about the USAAF project Aphrodite during the war. Radio controlled B-17's, loaded with explosives. JFK's older brother was killed during the trials.
This is what makes history so interesting. Never heard any of this till now, and the part about mid-air refueling was also surprising. Hats off to the Brits who were willing to take on such a mission. Thanks for this.
Opal Preston Shirley I don’t know? I’m having a hard time believing this one! I just can’t imagine the yanks allowing anything other than something American made delivering something so secret.
@@wozza77able Then you should know this is entirely true and they would have been used in Europe, there were no B29s there, Typical merican attitude since 'the bomb' was as much British/Canadian as American.
@@wozza77able that's exactly the point, they wouldn't allow a British heavy bomber to deliver a jointly developed weapon. Britain's atomic program was well in advance of the US, but the US had vast amounts of money they could throw at it. When Britain finally decided they couldn't bankroll the program, the US decided to take the data, scientists and materials and then screw them over. I guess that happens when you preference profit over ethics.
Paul Brickhill in ''The Dam Busters" mentioned the Pacific-Front-bound Lancasters but without the nuclear reference.
Wonder why the Americans didn't think of the British Grand Slam and Tall Boy bombs to be used prior to the
Iwo Jima landing on mount Suribashi.
The tremors could have made many of the tunnels and gun caves collapse.
Many American lives would have been saved.
@@michaelshore2300 - 'the bomb' was also Italian (Fermi), Hungarian (Szilard) and German (Bethe).
Mark, this is a perfect opportunity to go into Chryslers part in fixing the B-29. They built the first fully air conditioned plant where raw materials went in one end and completed aircraft came out of the other. They also made several thousand improvements to the P&W R-2800 to improve reliability and reduce/eliminate fires. Chrysler also used its experience in chrome plating bumpers to nickel plate the inside of the containment vessels used in the U-235 process. The government thought they needed "inches" of nickel (which was rare at the time) but Chrysler told them they could simply plate. The gov't insisted they had already tried plating and it failed quickly, but Chrysler proved them wrong.
Interesting. From the time when Chrysler engineering was some of the best in the world.
Interesting. From the time when Chrysler engineering was some of the best in the world.
The U235 that Germany had shipped enroute to Japan that ended up in Portsmouth New Hampshire came in gold platted containers. You'll notice that Admiral Donitz was given the least severe sentence of all the big wigs at the Nuremberg trials!
Thats the old Chrysler and not the new contaminated morass that makes cars in Mexico and thanks to Peugot is a disaster waiting for bankruptcy courts
@@MrCountrycuz I had a Chrysler 5th Avenue that ran like a champ. The engine was a straight 6 built tank tough. Got over a quarter million miles on it!
The Lancaster actually carried a larger bomb than the 12,000lb "tallboy"; it carried the largest bomb ever dropped in WW2: the 10 ton (22,000lb) "grand slam".
Good point, but I think Mark was getting at the fact that since the Lanc had shown it could carry a 12,000-lb bomb, that it could manage with the lighter A-bombs, which were around 10,000 lbs each. He does not come out and say that, but I think that's the jist. I am not convinced, however, that it could have carried either Fat Man or Little Boy without some modification to the bay. Fat Man was 5 feet in diameter, and I don't think either the Tall Boy or Grand Slam could be carried with the bay shut. Additionally, there's nothing presented that states the Allies tested a Lanc in such a configuration, so it's debatable whether his range number is accurate as well.
Yes but it couldn't fly anywhere near as high as the B29, end of story.
@@virgil81nz I wouldn't say end of story, it still took a great collaboration and Lancaster bomb door gear to engage the mighty task.
The B29 took the glory if we can say that, but at a mighty cost.
I pray the World has learnt, but great respect for the guys who not only engineered these monstrosities but to the guys, the Heroes, the fliers who flew beyond the call of duty.
@@dcbadger2 You are right about the modifications on Lancasters needed to drop large bombs. The Grand Slam is 26'6" long and almost 4' wide. I have seen footage of a Lancaster carrying and then dropping a Grand Slam. The bomb was basically fitted to the underbelly and took up almost the entire length of the plane's fuselage.
@White Death It was also Auric Goldfinger's heinous plan to blow up Fort Knox.
I do not see how a Lanc could have dropped an A bomb and survived. A few weeks ago I was reading an account of Tibbets "little boy" mission. Tibbets spoke about trying to avoid the blast. He calculated that a 159 degree turn and a full power shallow dive gave the best clearance. He also said airspeed on the departure was 464mph. No Lanc could get to the drop altitude or get within 200mph of that B29 silverplate.
So why turn.. come in from the far side and fly in a straight line. If you want more speed add a dive ..for even more speed add rato bottles. Or gryphon engines.. either way a strait line away from the target would put more distance from the bomb than a turn
@@richardoakley8800 bombs arc (well, not really, but they continue forward as they lose altitude, hence why bomb tossing works). By flying straight, you are following the bomb in: not a winning strategy. Even with nukes delivered by later, Mach 2 capable aircraft, the drop was a toss, turn, and run fast (F16, Mig 21bis). Set aside the fact that the Lanc couldn't fit or arm either of the bombs, the plane simply lacked the performance to survive a drop (high likelihood of not making it to the target in the first case, even if it had the range).
The Allied military was well aware of suicide missions employed by the enemy. Any reason they would not consider that option besides culture?
@@gbeachy2010 No need for a suicide mission when you have the silverplate.
@@richardoakley8800 Exactly. A "straight line away from the target," which requires turning away, unless you want to follow the bomb as it drops.
Fascinating. I endured the London 'Blitz' as a child, then later enjoyed a 5 year apprenticeship at Handley Pages, building Victors & later test flying in them for 4 years..However, this Mark Felton series tells me oh, so much more than we knew at the time. Thank you.
...YOU MUST BE REALLY OLD!!!
Sounds like you’ve led an interesting life! Folks such as yourself who have witnessed history, even if it’s only a slice of the whole picture, should be cherished.
@@daleburrell6273 Thanks! Yup. - nearly 86 & still active.
@@mikewilson4847 ...YOU'RE LUCKY-!!!
@@mikewilson4847 You were really young during that time! Do you recall much of it? I can imagine it being utterly terrifying for a child.
75 years later we're still learning about WW2 secrets. Thanks again, Mark.
This must be an exciting time for WW2 historians with the 75 year limitation on a lot of information coming due.
Secrets? Hardly.. Non-events, that's all. The Lancs were a possible contingency plan, not a big secret...
I can not say how many of these topics I have never heard of. Keep up the great work!!!
@LTrain 45 Lol, hahah, el ou el, harhar.
Get out.
@scooty470 Ooohhh, might actually want to look into this later on
Hey, Christopher M. Theodore. So, this is _when_ yo got to.
@scooty470 according to reddit, Ben Shapiro is a Nazi worse than Adolf Hitler.
@scooty470 Shapiro was not the focus of my comment.
Let me get this straight: the B-29 was a superior aircraft, which flew faster and higher and had a greater range, so it was much more likely to survive the blast with its crew -- but choosing to use it over the Lancaster was a matter of national prestige?
@@drott150 Just watched gregs video too and he does a fantastic job proving all of these fantasies wrong. I dont quite get how MFP can see himself as a genuine historian when he twist the history as it pleases him/his purposes. That is (in my book) the definition of a con man.
@@johnburns4017 - what is interesting are the people that spotted the big problems in Mark's story a year ago. Too bad, I liked Mark's work, but not anymore, since it makes me wonder what other stuff he presents as facts that is just distortion.
@@andreasnilsson2304 I really like Felton's videos, but I have noticed some of his videos about British aircraft are presented from a biased nationalistic perspective. His videos on the Vulcan, Lightning and Hurricane ground attack all seemed to be nationalistic instead of purely objective. When I saw this one I didn't know if it was nationalistic, I assumed he wouldn't dare put out something so wildly inaccurate without it being true. And something someone out there would have historical knowledge of to refute him. But it certainly looks like he did. Sad thing is, once you're caught doing this once, it calls into question the veracity of all the other "amazing" videos you've done as well.
@@robertsabasteanski4682 I know, I see all these old posts calling him out. Like they instinctually sensed he was making it up. I didn't know and enjoyed this video when I first saw it. I was very surprised I hadn't heard of this amazing story many years earlier though. Now I know why.
@@drott150 - the telling thing for me was no evidence at all of practice missions. So what did the 'secret squadron' *do* exactly, besides sit around and drink tea?
The History channel left this out of their documentary lol...good thing your channel exists. Thank you for this.
bc the History Channel rather do reality shows then actually teach history! i remember a time when History , TLC and A&E actually taught us things, ah the 90s and very early 2000s...thems were the days!
The History Channel is nothing but politically correct propaganda, they're actively in the process of rewriting history, Mark Felton actually conveys real history
@@oveidasinclair982 oh very much so, i love how they try and say the Nazi's are on the right and commies are left, nope, socialists and communists are left leading , on the right would be Fascism? maybe? i remember my grade 9 history teacher saying a few times, you want to learn real history, find history books made before 1985 and ww2 docs made before 1985, the world at war is perfect example of being 95% actuate, i was reading Donald Malarkey
book, he was in easy company the mini series Band of brothers, he was saying that jewish death camp they stumbled onto in the mini series wasn't even at that town, there was nothing there, there was one 40 miles away. they only added that in to group camps in to the mini series..
@@spookerredmenace3950 I-
Nazis *are* on the right, they're fascist-
@@garchompenthusiast no no , i know they are on the left lol i was trying to figure out what would be the extreme right dictatorship? king?
this should be interesting. cheers mark
Yes
This wasn't in any of my history books , thanks Mark 🇺🇸
Yes, I ripped the page out to make a paper plane.
It's not in your history books because, however interesting, at the end of the day it's an historical footnote.
My grandmother worked at oakridge. We had some interesting conversations.
Don’t know where you keep finding these obscure stories from history that I’ve never heard of, but they’re unceaselessly fascinating.
I can't think of a better motivator then, "well, if *your* company can't make the bomber work, I guess we'll have to go ask the British; who needs to go into the history books, right?"
Huh okay i guess one more history fact before bed
Look up Operation Ranch hand
@@masol3726 good stuff mate
At 12:20 “Little Boy was released from 30,000 feet”
According to General Paul Tibbets they were at 31,700 feet when the bomb was released.
Every bit of altitude mattered then for defense against flak, attacking planes, and escaping the shockwave(s) from the blast.
You taught me more history than my 12 years In school.
Ease down fellas, you'll hurt his feelings and "feelings"
I know what you mean but this is specified history. School has to teach more generalised stuff.
My auto correct is bad XD
Trump University!
Why was the war fought?
I’m surprised about the myth part. I was taught in college about the British part of the atomic bomb program and of course the Norwegian part in stopping Germany’s program.
From one American to the rest of our WW2 allies, not all of us Americans think we did it all our own! We were blessed with many friends and we needed every single one. Thanks!!
In Europe, the soviets did the heavy lifting. And an argument can be made that China deserves as much credit as the US for defeating the Japanese. Most of the Japanese army was fighting the Chinese during WW2, not the Americans. The scale of the battles and operations in the Chinese theater dwarf what occurred in Guadalcanal or even Okinawa. However, the Chinese didn’t have the resources or the technology to get close to the Japanese islands and finish them off. The US did that part (with help from the brits and soviets). Signed: another American
Good to know.
@@dhowe5180 It was thanks to the British empire germany never ruled Europe. And france is a smaller sense.
I've never heard any American say that we WWII all on our own. It's only natural that we concentrate on studying our role in the war. I would expect someone from China or Brazil to be more interested in their own history than in what others have done.
@@dhowe5180
I bet Hitler & Tojo would have loved those extra 350,000-400,000 Italian troops, 250,000-350,000 German troops tided down in North Africa or the 210,000 Japanese checked at the Indian border.
I have zero doubt the RAF could have stepped in the role and performed to perfection. Both our Nations worked very well to the same goal.
Very true
@ Well, yes I should expect so, since the British government shipped all the information on the nuclear bomb to the US. That detailed scientific and technical information got the Manhattan project started, without it the project would have taken years longer!
Great Britain did indeed contribute immensely valuable scientific information to the war effort here in the US. Not only in the development of atomic weapons but the cavity magnetron (radar) but the Whittle jet engine, proximity fuses, and numerous others. GB was not eager to share all this information with a bunch moneygrubbing Yankee's but fully understood that the US was in a far better position to develop these tools to end the war. In the end I am not sure they were well treated by those covetous Yankee's. Look up the Tizzard Mission. I am from the north and lining in the south so I am a "damnyankee" That's one word.
@ are you mad?
In terms of aerospace. The British were leaders and innovators. Amazing aircraft and jets for decades, all the way until the 80s. Now maybe even the 2020s with the Tempest being built.
Mark, Maybe you and Greg should have a friendly, professional conversation and share your sources with each other so that we can get a clear picture of what actually happened. It seems clear that U.S. national pride certainly played a role, yet Greg makes some good points.
@@minkymoo4794 Calling this video "Fact challenged" isn't nationalistic. There's plenty of comments that attack the lack of facts without being political about it. Then there's even more comments screeching in a British accent about how wrong those are.
@@Mishn0This is the top comment of this video. So true.
Great job!! Amazing how much is still coming out after all these years. Love when your on the WW2 podcast. Always an interesting conversation you and Angus have!!
Already suscribed, one of the best history channels on TH-cam, Is amazing the footage you have, I have years studying history and is the first Time i watch these ww2 videos
Another big surprise master class from the our favourite history teacher. Many thanks@Mark. Can't imagine Enola Gay to Lancaster.
I wound either, because the lancater cant reach hiroshima.. lol there were some designs to carry a 22000 pound "grand slam" bomb but none could carry enough fuel ..
how do I know this? Here in Hamilton Ontario we have one of the 2 FLYING lancasters in the world..
Harley Me yes but it is not one of the "Black " Lancasters is it? Equipped with the air to air refuelling rig. So a Black Lancaster would have been able to reach Hiroshima, and drop the A bomb. Or did you not actually listen to Marks commentary? The Lanc was THE superior bomber of WW2 with it's 10 ton payload. And before long we will have the third flying Lancaster also, up at East Kirkby Lincolnshire, now being fully restored there.
@@harleyme3163 The film taken at Hiroshima shows a fortress in the sky before the bomb went off..It can be viewed in the museum in Hiroshima...also there were no soldiers there .140,00 women children OAPs and koreans were killed. a further 140,000 died assiting with the clear up. This is a muck raking video taking the dirt from USA
@@harleyme3163 Yes it could ..the lanc could fly from tinian to hiroshima but it would need to refuel for the return journey...that would mean landing at iwo jima or okinawa which is precisely what the "bockscar" did before returning to tinian.
Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles is about to post a great rebuttal to this.
@@yamsi12 Yes a good historian always cites his sources..Greg did a wonderful job of dismissing this video with credible evidence and proven facts..i respect greg more than felton at this stage.
You think you know a historical event, and then Mark turns what you “know” on its head
And it happens time and time again!
After reading the title and for the first minutes of this video, I was afraid I had slipped out to an alternative universe with a slight different history. I watched all the video mostly to rule out that had happened
The same for me . I actually started to think it was a joint attack by the USAAF and the RAF , that had recently come to light .
Somewhere in an alternate universe the attack is a joint British American attack
John Birmingham: You rang?
My history knowledge is built upon a tripod. Wikipedia, historical memes and this channel!
Anglus Patria lol I like this comment
@Anglus Patria based
no books at all? that is serious deficient. There's a lot more to history than those three very limited sources.
@@JoeHarkinsHimself I actually learned more with these 3 plus non based documentaries than any book.
The History Guy channel
*Greg has entered the chat*
Johnny the men with the nets have located your ankle monitor
And totally refuted this completely BS video 😊
I had to go get some supplies so I'm late. Just when you thought you knew most of WW2 history Mark throws a wrench in your knowledge. Thanks for the video.
I saw The Black Lancasters open for The Clash in Austin, 1982...
When I get alerted that one of your videos as come out it literally makes me smile!
Theres some head-exploding debates going on down below (which I'm going to sidestep this time) but it is impossible not to be intrigued by the fact that a British squadron of Black Lancasters was kept on the side just in case issues with the B-29 prevented them from dropping the A-bomb, a great historical 'what-if ?' Totally accept that the B-29 was better in this role but the slower speed and lower maximum ceiling meant that the crews in the Lancs would have got a nasty bump when the things went off. What a Pepsi Challenge that would have been though, eh ?
@Liam Conway Yes but not completely we had a better plane for the bomb.
@Liam Conway Yep A symbol of Allies working to stop the war
One of the benefits of living in Toronto: the functional Lancaster that can occasionally be spotted flying around over the waterfront
I feel like I usually see it on Canada Day (but my memory might be playing tricks on me)
Paul Franciosi we see the " City of Lincoln" the Lancaster of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight quite often, as it flies over my house on its way to Buckingham Palace on any state occasion that has a flyby in connection withWW2 anniversaries . Along with all the other fantastic aircraft one after the other. The slow lumbering stuff first then the Spitfires and Hurricanes, the Lancaster then more modern big stuff, then second to last the fast Jets and finally the Red Arrows, a super display and all for free!
I remember the Lancaster on a pole by the waterfront. Big part of my childhood being able to see that. I don't know what it's fate was, whether they restored it or not
Another benefit is that its not america hahahah
sbentjies It was in the process of being restored at the Canadian Aerospace Museum at Downsview, same place that had the full size Arrow mockup but they lost funding. I think a bunch of the stuff, including the Arrow, are at an airport museum north of Toronto, Edenvale airport near camp Borden
The first B-29's struck Japan in November of 1944 from their bases in Saipan. By March of 1945, the firebombing of Tokyo by B-29's proved the B-29 type as fully operational.
Stateside, in March of 1944, American crews flying B-29's out of first Muroc (Edwards) and later Wendover Field in Utah were dropping "shapes," concrete versions of the two bomb types, exact in dimension and weight to the nuclear weapons they were to drop over Japan. Tibbets alone is estimated to have dropped nearly 40 of these "shapes" into the Utah Salt Flat range area. This was fully 17 months before the August 1945 Hiroshima drop. The first atomic weapons were not loaded onboard the battleship Indianapolis until July, 1945. By VJ day, August 14, 1945, 3000 B-29's were delivered and in service in combat. This was only weeks after the first Hiroshima bombing.
The B-29 had a bomb load of 20,000 lbs with the full range of 3250 mi. The Lancaster has carried the 22,000lb Grand Slam weapon but, this greatly diminished the range of the aircraft. To suggest the B-29 "couldn't do it" conflicts with the facts we now know. Yes, the B-29 was the most expensive and technically challenging weapons program in US wartime history, costing even more than the Manhattan Project itself but, issues and problems with both programs were resolved simultaneously. The Lancaster program may have been a prudent back-up plan but, even the Lancaster required some modification, not including the air refueling hose system only perfected in November of 1944. Modification of tanker and bomber aircraft for this system would have taken time and in November of 1944, the B-29 was already flying missions over Japan without the need for aerial refueling.
Well said Sir. I was born in England and am a very staunch supporter of our island nation friends, but this video takes great poetic license to play up what was only ever a faint possible back up plan. Back up plans are often three and four layers deep. Still it was entertaining.
Thank you I didn't believe this video
OCnStiggs...Your outline of events is great, but actually B-29s began striking targets in Japan before November, 1944, from airfields in Cheng-du, China
Cobhams Air Services air refueled a number of shorts c class flyingboat flights accross the atlantic carrying mail n passengers just before wwll.
Greg's Airplanes and Automobile TH-cam channel just completely debunked this entire video. It's shocking how much of this story Mark Felton told is complete fantasy. Mark Felton should be ashamed of himself. Check out Greg's video that he just uploaded moments ago.
The first air-dropped Soviet atomic bomb was delivered by a TU-4, their copy of the B-29.
Bias-4*
Why didn't they copy Avro Lancaster?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-4
@Hunter D Bias 4 is a reference to a game called "War Thunder" a military vehicle sim where players use aircrafts and tanks to fight eachother over objectives. The TU-4 in the game was made to be unrealistically stronger than other bombers which an inside joke developed. Calling the plane Russian bias.
Hunter D very overpowered in the video game war thunder 😂
At 4:15 video correctly states that Los Alamos Lab "realized" that the B-17 and B-24 could not deliver the A Bombs. However Los Alamos Lab was founded in 1943 well after the B-29 prototype first flew so the higher ups at the lab knew the B-29 was on its way as well as the Consolidated B-32 Dominator which was backup aircraft for the B-29 .
Good point about the B-29 and B-32!
Wow, this is history that is just not remembered! I'm 74 years old, and I've never heard ANY of this! Thank you, sir!
Research quantum (Mandela effect)entanglement
It's the Mandela effect
@Bob Saunders Yeah, we didn’t lose the War of Independence, and there were no losers in the Civil War, we certainly won in 1956 too...
Sure, Bob, we never lost in the North West Frontier in the 1700s either. Nice context shift from 1066 to centuries later, guess you don’t want to talk about the various losses between those two points.
Where did you buy those rose-tinted glasses? The beret tells me all I need to know about where you get your opinions though. Funny how soldaten alpha male wannabes are the ones to throw out the “triggered” thing when presented with arguments they can’t handle.
@Bob Saunders yes, we were great at attacking anyone whose weaponry was no more dangerous than a sharpened cumquat.
Where is Lord Chelmsford, I ask? He did brilliantly at Isandlwana.
If this triggers you, I’m sorry, but the mistakes made by the military and the leadership are absolutely shocking when compared with the triumphs.
Not that the British government could have frozen Imperial German ambitions for war in 1914 if it firmly announced that it would join a war with France and Russia (read The Sleepwalkers instead of The Sun)
I’m going to do us both a favour, and remember the wise words. “Streiten nicht mit ein Dummkopf”
Mark Felton productions is more informative than the history channel.
How many videos will I see this comment in a row?
@@luked4043 I don't know. Why don't you go count them then let everyone know.
William Pollock 10000
@@luked4043 Ha ha!😂😂
I can’t believe I’ve never heard this story before!
Because you're a brainwashed yank.
that's not beautiful.we even didnt nuke a city OURSELVES
@@mexicanfries5336 why care about alt history when we have what really happened. you can what if all day, but it won't change the past.
Yeah because your country always claims the victory
@@W4rM4chine82 with the exception of 1812 and Vietnam, I can't recall the U.S. losing much. And the outcome of 1812 was a truce that cost us nothing and Vietnam only cost the Vietnamese to have to be communist. So that's two wars that really didn't do anything to negatively impact us in the long run. So enlighten me on the victories you claim were not.
My ol Uncle Earnie was a rear tailgunner in the Lancaster bomber.He was involved in 80 odd sorties over Europe.
He would be disgusted at what's been allowed to happen to the once Great Britain.
We forever hold onto the fighting Churchill spirit ol mate.
Thank you Earnie for your dedication,service and sacrifice in fighting to preserve and protect our security, safety,identity,freedom ,values and way of life.
RIP Ol Earnie.
From a relative in Australia. 👍🦘🇦🇺👍🇺🇸🦅👍🇬🇧🌹
Every time I watch your videos I feel like a 12 year old kid watching war documentaries on the history channel
If only they still showed anything educational, instead of all the "reality " BS the do now, in between 20yr old repeats that have aired 500 times !!!
Hearing this music is like entering another dimension :D
Threnn, the Felton Zone, do not adjust your set!
You are. It's called, the past :)
0:00 yep time for history....
Always fair and objective in these historical sketches, I finish viewing them feeling an affinity for the fine British, knowing how much suffering they endured in WWII, thank you Mark
Are you sure that you weren't putting this out for the first time on April First?
I generally hate hearing about the background to events because I know them, but you make it so interesting!
I've been surprised by how much stuff I knew, but I knew it wrong.
beliving what your told , is not knowing
@Andrew Heller I feel that...
@ROL G Songwriter - No ads in here ! The British rations were far from being starvation rations. In fact, the rationing made the average Brit eat healthier. The average caloric intake and life expectancy both increased under rationing.
I always look forward to finding something awesome about history I never knew
Right on time, considering the fearsome explosion in Lebanon. Unreal. Peace and blessings🙏
@Graham Clarke appreciate the reminder
Uh, three hours from now is almost exactly the 75th anniversary of the detonation. The mission was live and in the air, now.
@@acchaladka Very true, for maximum damage. What a horrifying weapon...
Crazy huh? I hit it on the nail I was just thinking about that!
@Graham Clarke the OP's comment was about explosions and the video is about Hiroshima and moment the atomic age began. Gambatte and good luck in life.
Hi Mark, what are your sources? I would like to read more about this.
He doesn't have any. It's a made-up story for clickbait.
I'd never heard of this story before. Mark, you have another gem of a video. Love your channel.
I am glad it was mentioned how the Manhatten projects was an allied effort. My Grandmother was a nurse and at one point was a mental health nurse. She once cared for a man institutionalized who worked on the project as a scientist. He had a severe mental breakdown. He one day could not stand the concept that he was helping to build something that could kill thousands in an instant. The sheer thought of cities wiped out with one bomb, civilians unaware yet gone in a flash was too much for him. He was Canadian and was institutionalized in a Canadian mental hospital and never fully recovered to my knowledge or my Grandmother's.
My Respect, no one can truly know or understand what went through his mind, bless him 💖
That scientist was a hero: he contributed to build a tool which stopped EVIL Emperial Japan which refused to surrender and use they civilians as last shield to prolonge the WW2, WITHOUT atomic bomb the casualities of both alliies and japanese side would be far higher than the people who just died during atomic explosion.
Thousands are dead but tha scientists also save, possibly millions of lives!
@@techo4Ugeeks if you actually listened to the video and learnt your history you would know that the Japanese weren't surrendering at all and carried on fighting across Asia, the nukes were justified.
@@Blitz-ww8kh Don't forget that there refused to surrender after the 1st was dropped, so basically they asked for 2nd.
leon leon
They refused to surrender after the second one also. The only reason they didn’t get the third one is because it wasn’t ready and hadn’t been shipped from the mainland yet. The week’s time delay from the last bomb and the threat of a third bomb made them look closer at their situation which caused them to finally give up.
Do you like this channel?
Yes: 🔘
Yes: 🔘
YES
I'm probably a minority here but.. YES:☑️
I rigged it :)
I chose yes and yes
yes
Marc, fascinating indeed. One question only, where are all the documents that can prove all of this?
Omg, this peice of information is awesome awesome awesome😍😍😍..................soon mr.felton plz release a book or documtentry .....we love you and we support u : from India
Me, about to get lunch.
TH-cam: Mark Felton posted a new video and it's ATOMIC!
Me: Well, so much for lunch!
Why not both?
Just when you think you know one iota about WWII History - along comes Dr. Felton to shock and awe us!
This channel has inspired me to go back to school already making arrangements
This is a fascinating part of WW2 history. How many other interesting stories are still hidden? Thank you for your fine work on this channel.
RedSoxDad01 You mean how many other lies, this is typical English pride gone amock.
The best military historian online today
@@CaesarCassius Check out Eastory, starting with The Deluge I-III.
Mark Felton provides the details that are glossed over, ignored or forgotten.
@1978ajax Buried very deep .
Sorry, but that's pur fabrication in that video. The RAF never flew over Japan, not with the Lancaster and not even with the Lincoln. MArk Felton has a lot of imagination. He should write fiction. He probably found that information in the Matrix while talking to Neo or the Oracle.
@@lepompier132
Did you even watch the video?
Or irrelevant..
@@yamsi12
Bunk how?
Me- Yes i already know about the atomic bombing of Hiroshima
Mark Felton- Hold my beer
i find these kind of comments conversations.. very annoying.
@@royseibel511 Did someone hurt you?
@@KorgKapperi Yep annoying because they know each other and later one show that heagrees with him to show he's telling the truth.. When in fact thats pur bullshit, the RAF never dropped the a-bomb on Japan. The never flew over Japan, the war was over before they could create the Tiger Quadron.
Interesting tale. Any reputable sources to back any of this up?
None. It's Mark's pro-British propaganda.
@@TammoKorsai +1. We have little (nothing?) concrete to substantiate this so-called Black Lancaster squadron and plenty of info (pictures, videos, records, etc.) on the Silverplate B-29s. That more-or-less tells you all you need to know.
@@johnburns4017 I sure have. I learned a great deal about the subject from Greg.
@@johnburns4017 The USA has nothing to be embarrassed about. The B-29 proved its suitability for delivering atomic weapons on those fateful days in August 1945. The Lancaster, on the other hand, never dropped any atomic bomb and so its suitability for the role was never, and never will be, proven.
@@johnburns4017 Flawless argument. I have now been swayed to your side despite you presenting no evidence or sources. Well done.
B-29 project was more expensive than the Manhattan Project... (just a reminder for younger viewers)...
I find that hard to believe.
And the Russians copied it to boot.
@joanne chon If you believe that you will also believe that Kanye West is on the presidential ballot in eight states, running as the nominee of the Birthday Party.
The younger generation thinks WW2 was in medieval times. They're currently out filming themselves attacking police.
@@chriskelly9361
The Proud Boys have entered the chat
Keep believing the lies you're told q
Interesting, the old locals around Enstone still speak of the Black Lancasters based at airfield in the latter stages of WW2, nobody knew what they were there for are what they were training for, until Now thanks Mark very interesting and informative documentary
@hognoxious : Get back to your mummy’s back bedroom !!
Yes cause using a all black paint dropped from a slow bomber surely would have no consequences
I have studied WW2 as a hobby since I was a teenager I have never heard of this plan But then I have never read about half the stuff you teach us about You Sir, are doing a remarkable job Thank you
I never heard this either . I am skeptical
@@huckstirred7112 i think you'll find Mark puts a lot of research into his video's, I'd trust him more than i'd trust any governments accounts
Not that surprising really, at the end of the day they didn't have to actually do it, so as interesting as it was theres no real reason you would have heard about it.
You haven’t heard of it because it never happened, unfortunately. This video is meant to earn views, not advance historical knowledge. I like Mark’s work, but he’s somewhat too motivated by profit on occasion.
@闘将ダイモス what does Greg's videos have anything to do with my comment?
This is what History Channel is supposed to be like
The recent explosion in Beirut could be the largest explosion in a city since dropping of the Atom Bombs on the cities Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Mark's videos are perfectly timed.
It looks to have had the power of a tactical nuclear weapon; it was a stockpile of nitrogenous fertiliser.
balham456 oh that’s great
Thunderf00t has estimated the explosion to be around 1 kiloton tnt equivalent...
@@youngtschakaloff Thunderf00t's also a huge tosser, lmao.
@Nuidog Tianjin 2015 was 600 for conparison!
Black Lanc's Matter.
Underrated comment. Well done sir.
Excellent comment. 😎
A true love/hate comment. I "liked" it.
Excellent
@Crom the Wise Well, then you shouldn't ask. I would say I was both appalled and amused by the remark. I would also caution against assessing the content of my character based on one comment. I do think that all too often, we can be quick to express self-righteousness and condemn others for what could be an attempt at humorous word play. I'll leave it at that.
As a teen I built a B-29 model, and noticing the 2 bomb bays, I had half wondered about center of mass issues with the atomic bombs. The kit included decals for Enola Gay and Bockscar, but there was no reference to modifications to the bays, so this is all new information for me.
They sold you basically a fake model, of the actual plane that flew on the mission.
@@thommysides4616 It was the only model available at the time. I built the bigger scale model only for it to crash and burn in a gasoline fire in my backyard.
Of course the Lancaster had proven they could be modified with the Dam Buster Raid, the tallboy and the grandslam.
I can well believe this story. The late Mike "Lancaster At War" Garbett was a very good friend of mine and he told me that amongst many thousands of aircrew interviews which he conducted, one related to an officer based at an un-named Midlands or Cambridgeshire aerodrome. This officer, who had an excellent Squadron operational record, told Mike that there was a gap in his wartime RAF time for which he could not give details. The officer added that once a year he would receive a personal visit from "men from a certain London department" who would carefully quiz him about any approach which might had been made to him about this mysterious time, and caution him never to give any information on the matter.
Mike's opinion about this was that the unit involved was testing gas-dropping operations, but in the light of this documentary, I can see another side to it.
Why secrecy after the fact?
Why would the British Govt want to hide this story all these years?
Correct me if im wrong but i have memories of a Airfix 1/72 in Black Lanc from the 60s or 70s
Many such personnel are reluctant to discuss their involvement but I would urge him to at least write his memories down for posterity [perhaps deposit them with the IWM or similar], otherwise another small piece of the jigsaw of history might be lost.
@@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music There are still secrets from WW2 that the British Government will not release.
Sh!t you don't learn in school...great stuff!!!
That Introduction music is always the best.
Do you have a source for the "Black Lancasters" story?
A National Archives document number, book title, interviewee name, or anything like it would be greatly appreciated. There's nothing online definitively linking the "Black Lancasters" to the atomic mission so I'm excited to see the smoking gun you found. Any chance of sharing the source in the description?
He pulled this from his access to Redacted Everything Archive Repository, Encrypted Nonsense Division. (REAR END)
There have been references to the Black Lancasters at Enstone on the internet for around fifteen years. Most seem to suggest that they were part of Tiger Force, but the following was posted in July 2006. :- 'I have come across a reference to early nuclear weapons when they had predicted problems with the B29 design. It actually has 2 bomb bays with the wing spar between them, in action bombs being dropped simultaneously from front and rear bays. Dropping one very large bomb would require cutting through the main spar and rearranging the bay. The alternative was to use an existing bomber with a big enough bomb bay; the only one available being the Lancaster. Further tests however proved the B29 'silver plate' modification being suitable for the mission. This not only involved altering the bomb bay but also removing all possible excess weight, including all defensive armament. As a standard Lancaster would not have had the range required, in-flight refueling would have been essential.'
@@dovetonsturdee7033 That's the gist of what I was able to find as well. There's ZERO definitive proof these Lancasters even existed beyond online rumors that they did. And if they did exist, there are far more plausible alternative theories for their mission.
Dr. Felton doesn't give a date for the Lancaster's arrival beyond "1943." The lack of specificity there is a bit dodgy in an of its own right, but it's what we have to work with. So what was going on 1943?
Tallboy. Barnes Wallis' Tallboy bomb was being developed. Here's the timeline from Stephen Flower "The Dam Busters: An Operational History of Barnes Wallis' Bombs.
" Wallis got the go-ahead to develop Tallboy in July 1943 and he tested the first Tallboy Small at Orford Ness in December 1943. The first full-sized Tallboys were dropped (by 617 Squadron Lancasters, I believe) In April-May 1944 at the Ashley Walk bombing range. Enstone is within spitting distance of the two key facilities involved in the Tallboy trials, the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment at Boscmobe Down in Wiltshire and the Ashley Walk bombing range in Hampshire.
This fits up well with the "Black Lancasters" rumor. 1943-1944 timeline? Check. Logical reason to be at Enstone? Check. Modified bomb bay doors? Check. Secretive weapons development program? Check. Based on this, it seems far more likely to me that the "Black Lancasters" were involved in Tallboy development or a similar project at Boscombe Down.
It's also possible the Black "Lancasters" were involved in SOE Special Duties missions. Unmarked black Halifaxes were routinely used for this task and it's possible that the "Lancasters" in the rumor were misidentified by an onlooker. There were missions (ex. the June 1944 drops of SAS jeeps) that could have required the modification or removal of bomb bay doors.
Lancasters weren't offered for use in the East until the Second Quebec Conference in September 1944, so I don't think the Tiger Force theory holds a lot of water.
The vague "1943" date Dr. Felton gives also clashes with what we know about the B-29 Silverplate program.
If the Lancasters went to Enstone in late 1943, that doesn't make much sense. Darrell F. Dvorak's piece in Airpower History makes it clear that 1) the B-29 was definitively chosen to carry the bomb by June 1943 and 2) the first Silverplate B-29 was ready for testing by November 1943. It'd have been odd for the AAF in 1943 to also twist the RAF's arm into setting aside a half-dozen precious Lancasters when it already had chosen the B-29....
If they went there in early 1943, that doesn't make much sense, either. The first full-scale drop tests with test shapes of the A-bomb weren't being done until February 1944 (and they were being done in the US...) so there wouldn't have been anything for the Black Lancasters to practice dropping for nearly a year...
I really, really hope Dr. Felton can share his sources and shed some more light on the matter.
@@flashbackhistory8989 It does seem that the Lancasters existed, but everything beyond that, including what their purpose was, can only be speculation. The likelihood of the release of any government papers revealing anything more definite is, I suspect, remote.
After all, the papers dealing with the sinking of HMS Glorious off Norway in 1940 are still not in the public domain.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm starting to realize as well.
Unless Dr. Felton can produce a smoking gun, then this video is just shaky guesswork being dressed up as ironclad fact. Come 2043, the 100-year rule will be up and any documents should be declassified and we'll know for sure.
In either event, I still think the Tallboy or the SOE explanations are by far the most likely scenario s. It's just so far-fetched to assume the USAAF would have entrusted nukes to the RAF. If only Lancasters would do, why not simply Reverse Lend-Lease some Lancasters (as the Americans ahd already done with Spitfires, Beaufighters, and Mosquitos)?
Mark, your channel is a definite channel I would recommend to any history student. Well done once again for the well articulated and painstaking work.
Indeed!
LOL!
Good to know the British had our backs and would have done what was necessary to make the missions happen. I'm glad not from political standpoint, but a moral one that the British did not have to fly those missions. Every WW2 vet I've spoken with felt it was necessary but even they saw it as a tragic and terrible thing to have to do. The British people had endured more than their share in WW2, so I'm glad they didn't have to live with carrying this horrible part of the war also.
I think morality was a bit out the window at that point, with massive "total war" bombing of cities that the Brits were very much complicit with. I'm not making judgement about it, but an observation. The Dresden bombing is a prime (and horrible) example . The difference with the nukes is the perception of power (one aircraft, one bomb vs the resources the other raids required) that ultimately caused Japan to understand the waste in continuing. Yes, it was ALL terrible and a damn shame that the war escalated so out of control.
David Hollenshead I am not sure about the reliability, the Merlin was a darn good engine and the engines in the B29 were prone to overheating and fires. Both good planes though.
@@Whitpusmc Agreed! The Merlin was a superb engine that made the reputation of the P-51 Mustang. Imagine if the Mustang had been fitted with a huge radial!! 🤮
" Every WW2 vet I've spoken with felt it was necessary but even they saw it as a tragic and terrible thing to have to do" - Debatable as the Atomic bomb dropping was just a demonstration of power & the Japanese would have surrendered once the Russians entered the war !
@@mtnmist1 You insist on not judging a war you weren't involved in? Yet proceed to then judge!!
Very interesting, my Grandfather Alfred “Bottles” Highfield was with the British war ministers and had to come up with ways to defuse various designs of German bombs during the blitz, he designed an anti flash for artillery and was involved on the British side re atomic research before the Americans came on board. Never found much more, I believe there was a research centre near Ide Hill he worked at also. Must have known a bit as he had to work up in Scotland with Americans keeping a close eye after the war when the Russians were after atomic scientists. Tried finding more information but to no avail.
Where did you get your info. The Russian never looked for scientist, they got technical details and lot more from a few of the physicist present at the Los Alamos Mahanttan Project site. Klaus Fuchs was one of the spies that gave detailed information to the Russian Intelligence services of the time. They found 6 that spied for Russia after the was was over and before the H-Bomb was created. The Russian were looking for scientist and engineers that worked on rockets in Peenemünde after the surrender of Germany.
The place you are thinking of is Fort Halstead, I was a weapons testing facility and went miles underground. It might still be managed by MoD.
My uncle and Nova Net instructor did or knew secret squirrel stuff during Nam, and my brother did secret stuff during OIF.
The fact that men like them can at best only allude to things and can only confirm they had a security clearance and were aboard a certain ship, base, etc is quite intriguing given the fact that more than likely they have to take many details to there graves.
Tony Last that’s great to get a name for the place👍
Jed-Henry Witkowski only heard snippets from father, I was not to ask grandad about the war. My father said grandad was troubled by the atomic project.
Very Interesting! Lets see what Greg's response is to this, in a few minutes. Very Interesting stuff, I had absolutely no idea!
Greg who? Why not supply a link to the page and / or video?