Production Car Aerodynamics: Spoiler V's Wing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- (air=30m/s) Is a spoiler on a hatchback better than a rear wing for motorsports use? This video analyses the aerodynamics of a hatchback to see which device offers the highest downforce. A spoiler works by creating downforce by lowering the air pressure under the floor. Wings tend to work as independent devices.
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Interesting discovery. I wonder if the low pressure zone created under the wing is interacting with the rear windscreen causing a net loss of downforce. Thus moving it higher and/or further back effectively reduces the magnitude of interaction between the two members thereby increasing downforce.
There would be a loss with the wing and windscreen interaction but the loss between a spoiler and wing is from under the floor. The graph at 6:40 illustrates where the majority of the loss comes from. This graph of pressure along the centre of the floor tells us a surprising amount of how the car creates downforce. Moving the wing into air less effected by the body means there is more mass flow rate that the wing can use to create more downforce. The plot at 7:00 shows that you do get a little back from the body if you compare the baseline, car with the spoiler from the previous video, and "AoA 0 back 150mm" .
@@nelsonphillips thanks for your reply. While it is outside of Aus ipra rules, does moving the wing upwards from the roofline have similar effect to moving it backwards?
@@tezzasaurusrex it should, you will still get the minimum body loss though. So up and back should be better. The TCR cars have there wings along way from the body, even then they have a very low AoA.
can you do some aero videos for sedan cars? especially late 80's/ early 90's cars which have a basic 3 box design
Very useful video and channel. Found this and binged the whole channel. Any chance of some simulations of a stock style spoiler at different lengths? I have a civic (ep3) tack car that has a factory spoiler and Im just wondering if an extended version would bring any improvement
I'm may not make a video specifically about that, but a longer spoiler gives you kick the air up later at, likely, less drag
Nelson,
Watched this video probably 6 times and have been using it as a reference alot. Thank you for the information.
Currently trying to develop a wing for a hatchback time-attack vehicle, what is your insight of the further back you place the wing? better? worse? I know you stated further back is better... is there diminishing returns on this? anything insight would be helpful
I assume that even TA has some max distance you can have body work. This is usually the constraint. But, saying this if it is to far back aero balance will become more fragile/difficult to achieve and maintain.
@@nelsonphillips yes the do, for my class(street car) it is 12.5 CM from above and from the sides. So i intended to use all of that space. Supporting wouldn't be an issue...would you be willing to do testing of the car if i had a 3d model? Message me!
@@Kraftwagenmotorsport I'm on twitter, reddit, imgur and mastodon if you want to discuss anything
thank you for sharing!
I've been trying to understand what kind of wing / spoiler works best for my clio, probably because my hatch has such a steep angle, i should probably just stick to a regular spoiler? and thoughts on this?
Depends on you use. If you are just using your car for the road, smaller the better. If you are track racing only then it depends on cost or fabrication skills. The slope of the hatch, unless its very shallow eg. honda integra, wings just cannot get enough air. Spoilers are easier. If you can stick winglets on the side of the spoiler that tends to better. The problem is that you just cannot buy a spoiler with side winglets so you would need to make it youreslf.
@@nelsonphillips thanks for your reply!
Hi Nelson, may I ask if there are no regulations on placing the wing higher; what would be best?
Apologies if I missed it within the video
definitely the high and further back the wing, the better. However the spoiler is very effective. If you have a look at the Lanica Delta group B and then the group S rally car they ran all configurations. They actually came to the same conclusion I did with this video with the group S car. I was unaware that they did, it was only because I have been doing a bit of research on that car.
@@nelsonphillips ooo i presume you meant this design?
wrcwings.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/prototipo-rally-mille-piste-1985.jpg
The model you’re using is a Suzuki Swift GTi, are you building this car as well? If so, I would love to learn more.
I’ve been trying to find information like this for weeks. Get info 💪🏽. I’d like to add something, what about a duckbill type spoiler? They extend much more then a standard spoiler. Reference spoon design on a EG hatch
I actually have a GE Honda fit, I’m currently trying to decide to go with a wing or possibly the spoon type duckbill.
spoilers with a low angle are generally good. I don't think wings are any good for hatchbacks, though thats because nobody really understands wings and hatchbacks.
tenho a ideia de abaixar tanto a traseiro do meu Hatch até transforma-lo em um Fastback, você poderia calcular quanto eu devo abaixar pra receber os benefícios? I have the idea of lowering the rear of my Hatch so much to transform it into a Fastback, could you calculate how much I should lower to receive the benefits?
I'd copy a honda. There are many to choose from, CRX is a classic and my fav
A wing would be more beneficial. You're forgetting that air is flowing around the sides of the car as well.
On a FWD car, the rear end's purpose is only to follow the front and can become unstable.
A wing with the side fins as shown can improve the handling and keep the car pointing in the direction it needs to go.