Pushing the concept of a wing on a hatchback a little further. It just confirms that this a robust concept capable of producing a decent amount of downforce.
One of my friends used to drive a Mazda 323 GTX in high school. We used to joke about how its two "spoilers" generated infinite down force, and would allow it to fly if you managed to flip it. All joking aside, it's so cool to see the actual engineering and CFD behind that design choice. Nice work!
I’ve owned a Mk2 golf 2 door for over a decade. I love this video. The fact that people (actual engineers) are still talking about and improving the Mk2 GTI makes me happy.
Once again: Place your rear wing to help your floor generate more downforce. Don't use the rear wing for downforce. Use it to help your floor generate even more. In other words, think of the car floor and rear wing as a two element airfoil. Car Floor is the larger first element. Rear Wing is the second element. Use the Second Element Rear Wing to keep flow attached while also adding energy to help evacuate more air from the low pressure side of the Floor to generate more downforce. This might mean you're not placing the wing high up, nearly above the roofline, as expected. The angle to the ground plane might even be negative. Though it's AoA to the airstream will most likely be just slightly positive. All to accelerate the air to help the Floor evacuate more creating lower pressure. Which would create even more downforce than just using the floor and rear wing as seperate devices.
I've been wondering for a while now, how a sunroof being all the way open or just popped up, affects the aerodynamics. I was hoping you'd already have a video on it but if anyone would do it, I think you would be the best one for the job. It would be awesome to see you make this happen! Thanks
Nice, even though as you state its a robust concept, i think a lot can be done on the flap design aiding in the turbulent flow direction where the flow detaches, i think that is key to optimizing the wing performance.
the funniest use of wings was on Renault Espace mk3 (1996-2002) and mk4 (2002-2015) and some Peugeot 807 models also had them. Would be interesting to see simulation on those boxy family cars
very good that you kept testing and learing, notice that you found out that it was from old rally cars, also hill climbs (pikes peak, some dakar and so on) but most of them use a different method instead of the flat flap following the roof, very glad you tested that one because thats my theory of putting the wing all the back you are allow and letting the air follow a better shape to decrease drag and lift on the body of the car ( having a so back wing also helps with making more leaver force to the chassis)
Do you think the cheesegrater-style rear aero element from the first-gen Suzuki Alto Works, actually works? Brochures made a point over the reduced Cd it apparently did.
One thing I would like to know is if there is anything I can do or add to my van to stop road-spray or rain and just the general dirt and muck from being sucked up off of the road and attracted to the rear windows like a black hole attracts matter. Maybe some kind of wing or vanes to let clean air blow down over the glass from the roof. I don't care much about drag, since my van is an 8 ft. tall brick as it is. I have an older conversion van with the high roof, and 2 doors on the rear. (Just look up a pic of a '90 Dodge Ram B250 conversion van) I have installed a rear-view camera just behind the glass, and if it's raining, or the roads are wet, the crud just gets sucked up and all over the glass, obscuring any view or hope of seeing rearward via the camera or interior mirror. Anyone who has ever had a "flat-back" vehicle, as in a van, wagon, minivan, bus, RV etc, with no rear wiper/washers will know the struggle.
We have observed in practice that rear wing can and will increase rear wheel grip at high speeds. Also in context of pure downforce, it might not be much, but depending on where you place that wing you can shift the weight of the car and create a stable or predictable behavior in the high speed corners and at the same time very well rotating rear in the low speed corners. In general the closer to 90degrees the hatch is the more you get drag and less lift. And people rarely account the suspension dynamics when speaking about aerodynamics.
at my work i learned one big thing about wing and flap and flap squarre, a wing without a flap isn't as effectif as a wing with a flap, and flap squarre is as important
One of my friends used to drive a Mazda 323 GTX in high school. We used to joke about how its two "spoilers" generated infinite down force, and would allow it to fly if you managed to flip it. All joking aside, it's so cool to see the actual engineering and CFD behind that design choice. Nice work!
I’ve owned a Mk2 golf 2 door for over a decade. I love this video. The fact that people (actual engineers) are still talking about and improving the Mk2 GTI makes me happy.
Once again: Place your rear wing to help your floor generate more downforce. Don't use the rear wing for downforce. Use it to help your floor generate even more. In other words, think of the car floor and rear wing as a two element airfoil. Car Floor is the larger first element. Rear Wing is the second element. Use the Second Element Rear Wing to keep flow attached while also adding energy to help evacuate more air from the low pressure side of the Floor to generate more downforce. This might mean you're not placing the wing high up, nearly above the roofline, as expected. The angle to the ground plane might even be negative. Though it's AoA to the airstream will most likely be just slightly positive. All to accelerate the air to help the Floor evacuate more creating lower pressure. Which would create even more downforce than just using the floor and rear wing as seperate devices.
I've been wondering for a while now, how a sunroof being all the way open or just popped up, affects the aerodynamics. I was hoping you'd already have a video on it but if anyone would do it, I think you would be the best one for the job. It would be awesome to see you make this happen! Thanks
Can you do a lorry aero test so i can know how deep I have to tailgate it for me to maximize my fuel efficiency?
As an scca racer who drives mk1VWs I'm very happy to have found your channel.
Might just be my misunderstanding, but how is this not a benefit to on track performance?
Nice, even though as you state its a robust concept, i think a lot can be done on the flap design aiding in the turbulent flow direction where the flow detaches, i think that is key to optimizing the wing performance.
the funniest use of wings was on Renault Espace mk3 (1996-2002) and mk4 (2002-2015) and some Peugeot 807 models also had them. Would be interesting to see simulation on those boxy family cars
very good that you kept testing and learing, notice that you found out that it was from old rally cars, also hill climbs (pikes peak, some dakar and so on) but most of them use a different method instead of the flat flap following the roof, very glad you tested that one because thats my theory of putting the wing all the back you are allow and letting the air follow a better shape to decrease drag and lift on the body of the car ( having a so back wing also helps with making more leaver force to the chassis)
If the wing extends off the sides of the hatch it just produces more drag because there is no roofline to guide the air
Mate, your vocal fry is on a californian girl's level.
Do you think the cheesegrater-style rear aero element from the first-gen Suzuki Alto Works, actually works? Brochures made a point over the reduced Cd it apparently did.
One thing I would like to know is if there is anything I can do or add to my van to stop road-spray or rain and just the general dirt and muck from being sucked up off of the road and attracted to the rear windows like a black hole attracts matter. Maybe some kind of wing or vanes to let clean air blow down over the glass from the roof. I don't care much about drag, since my van is an 8 ft. tall brick as it is. I have an older conversion van with the high roof, and 2 doors on the rear. (Just look up a pic of a '90 Dodge Ram B250 conversion van) I have installed a rear-view camera just behind the glass, and if it's raining, or the roads are wet, the crud just gets sucked up and all over the glass, obscuring any view or hope of seeing rearward via the camera or interior mirror. Anyone who has ever had a "flat-back" vehicle, as in a van, wagon, minivan, bus, RV etc, with no rear wiper/washers will know the struggle.
We have observed in practice that rear wing can and will increase rear wheel grip at high speeds. Also in context of pure downforce, it might not be much, but depending on where you place that wing you can shift the weight of the car and create a stable or predictable behavior in the high speed corners and at the same time very well rotating rear in the low speed corners. In general the closer to 90degrees the hatch is the more you get drag and less lift. And people rarely account the suspension dynamics when speaking about aerodynamics.
at my work i learned one big thing about wing and flap and flap squarre, a wing without a flap isn't as effectif as a wing with a flap, and flap squarre is as important
With the configuration at
So the VW TCR race car wing that comes on the car from the factory could be considered as useless?
hello, what program do you use for the flow simulation?
Interesting thanks! Can you show us a Holden Commodore wagon? Stock and some thing after market?