Jordan Peterson: The Mind of Highly (Dis-)Agreeable People
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2024
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Jordan B Peterson (born June 12, 1962) is a Canadian clinical psychologist and professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. In this clip, he talks about why women are higher in sensitivity to negative emotions and agreeableness; how extreme agreeable and extreme disagreeable people think and what you can do if you are too agreeable.
Full talk "2017 Personality 17: Biology and Traits: Agreeableness ", quoted under fair use: • 2017 Personality 17: ...
You can support Jordan Peterson at his Patreon: / jordanbpeterson
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I loved hearing him describe his disagreeable conscientious friend. I know a guy just like that and he's one of the most interesting people I've ever met. Most people think he's a terrible person but I think he's misunderstood. I have never met someone who's less afraid of conflict or who can tolerate such intense social pressure. He's very successful and intelligent and my god he's blunt. He'll do or say anything he pleases regardless of the situation. It doesn't matter how much social pressure he'll face, he doesn't compromise his values under any circumstances.
airlopez21 cool. 9d like to meet him.
yep I know one too. He's worth knowing for several reasons, despite his bluntness and sometimes amazing lack of empathy. He's successful and generous and is not a mean person.
I started to behave like this too. About two years ago when I did the big five test for the first time I scored 80% in agreeableness. Some friends even criticized me for always seeking harmony. I took the advice serious and started being more disagreeable when the situation forced me to be.A few weeks back I did the test again and ended up at 24% only.
The funny thing is: The same friend who criticized me for being too agreeable now criticizes me for being disagreeable. It feels great to be a „nonconformist“. Even though I‘m more myself, speak my mind and improved most of my relationships due to my integrity I also stepped on many peoples toes and I found out many of my friends are pretty sensitive.
Despite all the benefits I feel like I‘m hurting the people I love and turning into a person you don’t want be around for too long. I feel more confident than ever before but also somewhat disconnected. When you have too chose between your values/ideas etc and other people you are obliged to stand up for what you believe in, even though it could mean loosing the people you love.
It nice to hear that people somewhat admire being more disagreeable. I also like Zizeks view on this. He said something like „Why do you want to be happy if you could be interesting“. But I really have to make a change in my behavior hence I often feel like an asshole or even arrogant. I think it’s easier to fall prey to bad traits due to the confidence one gets for being disagreeable.
So basically he's Larry David
@@kai9720 good job dude
The other day i took a 5 big personality traits test, and scored 1/100 in disagreableness, and i was like, no, im not that disagreable.
Then i realised i disagreed with being disagreable and it all made sense
JustACarlo Same here, although I'm around average for politeness, but my compassion level is exceptionally low. That shocked me quite a bit. I knew I was insensitive, but I had know sense for the scale of my "coldness" so to speak. In some ways it's good, as I'm very objective, but I'm not as thankful and generous as I should be.
Exactly me, word for word. l0l
Yup same here. I scored very low on the agreeableness scale with 4 percentile in total, 4 percentile compassion and 1 percentile politeness. I don't agree either, I don't have any particular tendency towards predatory and vicious behaviors- I actually try to keep some form of etiquette and create a basis where effective discourse can be held but my attempts are often frail as people tend to get agitated quicker than I do
My score was 2
I scored 3% agreeableness, and couldn’t believe it. But then I realize how upset I can get when I don’t get what I want 😂 and how little I respect and trust public speakers when they come to my school etc
You don’t have to be “highly disagreeable”…you can simply stand up for your principles as necessary.
And that is a disagreeable trait because it presumes your identity isn't built on the needs of others.
You are slow. Any amount of agreeableness means you agree to things you don't prefer. Retard
For agreeable people, getting into conflict is much similar to "stage fright".... getting up on stage,infront of 100 people........how I tackle rude ,blunt aggressive men is by allowing them to be that way,...and thinking"how can I get them to accomplish my mission",by always assessing their level of aggression,...and shutting the hell up,when they escalates....
@@philosophicalmonkachu7711 you guys are talking as if avoiding conflict is some sort of rare genetic defect. Avoiding conflict is a completely normal behavior adaptation born out of a desire for survival. Being agreeable is a perfectly normal and acceptable default behavior. The issue isn’t some sort of genetic pre-disposition, it’s having the character and courage to be disagreeable when it is the right thing to do.
I grew up being very agreeable and letting people step all over my kindness and suddenly I chose to be bitter and became highly disagreeable towards others but now I have a healthy balance because once you acknowledge what your boundaries are, you can draw the line between being charitable and being taken advantage of.
yes
He didn’t say bitter was disagreeable… bitterness is emotional… disagreeable doesn’t come from an emotional basis
You. Chose to be bitter? That is not 'disagreeableness.' here are mild examples: Sent an angry or frustrated email or left a similar voicemail
Got into a verbal conflict of any kind with anyone in your personal or professional life
Had a negative emotional reaction to a stranger you encountered while driving, at work, or running errands
Snapped at anyone in response to something they said or asked.
Extreme example is shooting people in road rage.
Bitterness hurts you and others around you it i disproportionate and inappropriate, in scope and scale. Often vented on the wrong, undeserving people. You did not know what your boundaries are? Once you do know, then you have to clearly let transgressors know you van even dis agree and be polite about it. So you suddenly decided to be bitter.
Me too...except that balanced part.
eh' i'll keep at it....
BALANCE between values is so important. Every value comes with an opposite value. It is not as easy as picking one once and be done. It is a permanent process
I treat people the way I want to be treated...after that, I treat them the way they treat me.
it's called descretion. If it's obvious that the person is "in it" and really can't help how they approach the world, of course one takes the high road. But in general, for the average, people who can't be polite when given a modicum of respect, do not deserve or have not earned respect and trust. AND it is bad to give it to them. Give them what they earn, not deserve. Karma is a great teacher. To be agreeable when they are clearly acting out seeking a smackdown is to enable their pain further down the world.
See: slap heard round the world (the subway video) as an example.
yeah not me; why: these people will slip a shank in. People who smile and start reaching for daggers get no respect from me.
but I'm grizzled. and grouchy.
This should've been my yearbook quote
Tommy O Donovan OH YEAH. I’m gonna quote you
That's not so smart...or wise...or effective
“You are wired to be exploited by infants.” It hit me hard. Large corporates are filled with infants...
Lmao “large” corporations. What a terrible philosophy and perspective to have on companies that do well enough to provide 500+ families income and stability and areas of expertise to move up or down the ladder if they so choose to step on it and climb up it. At their own leisure too! 😭😭😭😂
@@EAZIEE you are way too triggered by his companies. Nothing he said conflicts with what you said. They can co exist.
And not everyone in a company is agreeable. There are both. You can be disagreeable and work your way up as you said.
@@danfromzr3289 what is being said is that corporations with a key word being “large” as the narrative has been indoctrinated by the left…. Is filled with “infants” who exploit people. Are you following now or do you already grasp whats not being LITERALLY said and not just looking at the first level of the ideology of that statement?
YO RIGHT !?
Reality is a bitch
I’m highly agreeable, and what Jordan said of “we don’t know what we want” and “struggle to make a career” is so true.
i am basically having the same problem and i am in the middle of applying to University, no clue as to what i really want to do with myself. though i also blame it on my culture.
Yes find more excuses. The entire point of the video is to do something about it
I am a woman, and I scored very high in both agreeableness and conscientiousness. I can relate to feeling exploited at work and not knowing how to resolve it.
We know. Most women are this way because you’re far more attached to your emotions than men.
@@beautifulllstars Men are geared toward logic, problem-solving, analytical thinking. Women are geared toward emotions, personalities, people. Just make an intentional effort to use the brain more than the heart.
@@Devonpinky09 well use the “left” side of the brain more than right haha. the right side is what we prefer to as the heart/emotions.
as a woman who can be too emotional or logical at times, what helped me most to think logically is thinking slow. like thinking step by step, than multitasking all possible factors and outcomes. because sometimes things aren’t relevant enough to put thought into. studies align with why women are more prone to anxiety/depression, but we are think intuitively (connecting thoughts from side to side, while men gear in front and back) and process thoughts x8 faster than men. that’s why we talk 100 mph haha.
but that’s the tale of 2 brains. if anything, our brains are more alike than different. regardless of gender, anyone can be too logical or emotional. the studies only prove functional differences.
whichever you feel that you lack most can improve with practice :) don’t diminish ur strengths, just feed the brain hehe
Sounds like you need to team up with a hard-ass. Professionally, if that's possible, you need to pair with someone who is the opposite to your disposition.
I had the #2 in charge of the plant giving me crap in QA about something that happened a day I wasn't there. And he kept trying to blame me and I said _you know what Rob, the next time something like this happens to me, I'll be sure to blame someone who wasn't here that day cause it sure seems to be working out for them right now doesn't it?_ that was the end of that. I analyze things too much lol
I grew up sheltered and was raised in a strict environment , so I ended up becoming a highly agreeable person and have always been holding myself back from speaking my mind and deciding what I want because I'm always terrified of offending someone or getting into fights, but after being stepped on and on, I've had enough and thank god for this talk because this is something i really needed to hear. :(
Me too 😕
Same with me...
Grew up in a extremely similar environment, i have the lowest agreeable score possible
Raised with a strict parents, I was extremely disagreeable from birth so I never compromised and their punishments never worked, and I responded by becoming more and more aggressive over time.
Now I have a strong rebellious streak.
Same here!
Here is a true example of agreeableness at its ridiculous extreme:
My mother in law was in hospital and the nurse came around and read out the menu to her and asked her what she would like.
She said " oh the fish pie sounds good, ill have the fish pie "
The nurse must have misheard her and said " so roast chicken then"
My mother in law said " Yes, the roast chicken".
Infuriating. Lmao
This just makes her British
Been there
Done that
I would do something like this lmao
I love this reply..maybe the British Empire wasn't built so much on those who went out abroad, but more on the kindness of those who stayed and built homes at home.
It appears to me that there is an unavoidably obvious pattern in ridiculously disagreeable people. Anytime that I meet someone who is disagreeable, they generally had an upbringing in which they learnt to be resilient as a defense against bad influences or people in their childhoods who harmed them. The problem is that they often get so used to being resilient against poor treatment that they end up being rebellious against the kind and willing since it’s so engrossed in their psyche
I respectfully differ. I think agreeableness and disagreeableness is more a consequence of nature rather than nurture. The intensity of that however can be propagated by nurture and even skewed in the opposite diection depending on the other OCEAN traits (neuroticism, conscientiousness etc). Because in many cases (in my observation, im not sure if its been scientifically tested), a situation of trauma 9childhood or adulthood) can cause one individual to become highly aggressive, while to another, becomes highly withdrawn. So i would beg to differ, i dont think that disagreableness is the only defense from bad influences. Some mitigate the conflict by becoming more agreeable (depending on one's inborn traits and the combination of all five) in my opinion
a good example is how many psychologists say that 'people pleaseing" which is aggreeable behaviour is often considered a trauma response. so it can go either way
This is extremely accurate. I grew up with a very high rate of defensiveness & argumenatitiveness.
Still have it to a degree, but nothing like when I was young.
My siblings are all the same. It was due to trauma & child abuse from the age of birth forward.
@@vee3687I disagree. I think far more often it is due to "nurture," rather than someone being simply born with a disagreeable nature.
@@cicin9313 I agree. Same.
As a child of a divorced mom who faced many tough situations early in life I grew up like the most agreeable person on the planet. I felt like water and I always changed shaped based on people’s demands. This made me vulnerable to exploitations in my life and not just by strangers but by close relatives and partners. I also didn’t know what I wanted exactly in life to stand and fight for and I always followed the path others drew for me.
I recently went into a relationship with a narcissist and was so badly mentally damaged that had to visit a psychotherapist for my mental state. And he helped me to learn to stand for my personal rights and speak out!
Guess what?
The narcissist partner ended the relationship as soon as I stood for my most basic rights!
Yeah. They are users and the moment you aren’t usable there is no connection.
Good riddance
Damn I had the same upbringing and ended up with similar traits.
Check out the book, The Chronology of Water by Lidia ???. She did a TED Talk, I know, I know, sounds silly but the brief 12 minutes I watched is exactly what you said here. Anyway, thought it might be interesting.
"If you want to hire someone to exploit productively, you hire middle-aged women who are hyper-conscientious and who are agreeable."
I bet this is why nursing is such an underpaid profession despite how hard the work is.
Hard disagree on that bit of back-slappery for the people who spend tens of billions in public money inserting themselves between people who need medicine and the medicine they need.
@@valeriekeefe8898 I'm afraid I don't follow. Which people are you talking about?
@@Almatty the people who kill 28,000 Canadians and 250,000 Americans every year out of their own incompetence, and that's the incompetence they admit to.
Nurses get paid very well. It is the certified nurse assistants that do the majority of the hard work, but only get paid a few dollars above minimum wage. I dated a CNA for a few years who worked at an old folks home. She told me all about it how it really is. That the nurses had it a lot easier and would get paid 30 plus an hour and do the bare minimum (this is pretty standard at least at old folks homes in our area as she has seen it at a few companies) it depends on where you work like hospitals nurses busy their asses. Usually. But yeah CNAs get abused and usually by nurses that are impossible to fire. Like you need to kiss butt in order to survive at these jobs. And the profession itself desensitizes CNAs and nurses and the older they get the worse they usually get at their jobs and at home. Watching people die every week gets to you.
@@joshuablair252 I worked as a CNA in an inpatient rehab hospital for about five years. I wholeheartedly agree that CNA's are underpaid. When I said nursing is an underpaid profession was talking about them too.
I've lost jobs over arguing with my bosses for better working conditions but now I'm in a MUCH better place than those who just took it. Learn to fight, I understand not everyone is born a fighter but you need to, just being treated like a human in this world is a hustle.
Sometimes you just gotta know when to play the game though eh?
Adults choose their battle
The older I get the more I learn to not take bull. Doesn’t make it easier, but I feel less helpless.
@@Priasbcbeist Nope, parents and other people in compromised positions in regards to their employment have to choose their battles. Not all adults have to choose their battles which is absolutely a good thing. I'm genuinely sorry for whatever situation in your life that causes you not to be able to. Take care dude
We all need to voice our inputs if we see improvement are needed. Its too bad some uppers disagree or not seeing the issue at hand or will become an issue but as long as you bring it out you did it correctly and spoke up because some people see it but they just ignore it.
If you're too agreeable - learn to be disagreeable
If you're too disagreeable - learn to be agreeable
Balance is the key, also being flexible
Why can’t one just speak their mind respectfully and carry on not caring how the world views their behavior!
No
@@theentrepreneur607 because you live in a world with other people and there are consequences for your words and actions.
@@theentrepreneur607 There are many kinds of minds among the whole of Humanity. The overwhelming majority naturally value things such as social tact and behavior, while others do not have such strong instinctual inclinations towards valuing it (like autistic people).
It would be ideal if we didn't struggle with these differences, but reality is that we do; all we can do is become more capable of managing the differences. Teenage education in the subject of healthy/functioning neurodivergence - such as atypical minds/mental disorders - needs a lot of thought but has much promise in alleviating the issue.
@@bigburner9609 that’s why I said respectfully ! I understand there is feelings , however should one keep quiet when they disagree with others? Should one be and do exactly what the entire world is doing? Or should one create their own path , speak their mind and let others know your opinion matters even if it doesn’t match theirs!
I did JP‘s personality test and scored in the 2nd percentile on the agreeableness dimension, meaning I am exceptionally low in agreeableness. My best friend is very high in agreeableness and we talked about it a lot how it made him incredibly uncomfortable the way I was expressing myself all the time, never shying away from confrontation, always being super blunt and direct. Up until that point it never occurred to me that this was something that people could not relate to. He has helped me a lot in developing a way to manage that better for the sake of improving my social interactions. In return he started standing up for himself a lot more and seeing the value in that.
I’m highly disagreeable & it feels different to me than how JP describes. I feel like it comes from a sense of always watching out for myself & refusing to tolerate unacceptable behavior by others. I am regularly shocked by the stupidity & poor choices of other people in public. I confront people who do dangerous or rude things in public fairly often. I wish I wasn’t this way, but I can see most people are simply afraid of conflict & wish they had the courage to do the same. I wish I was laid back, I’m just not.
Oh I am the same way. You know what, I don't feel bad about it anymore. I am what I am. Someone has to be the voice of reason in a crowd of stupid people.
That's disagreeableness and conscientiousness.
I am the same way. He said it though-it can be routed in neuroticism. As a defense mechanism, watching out for yourself rather then dominance
You’re doing a service for society by keeping the jerks in line.
Same. Trying to bring sense into people but coming over as rude. Like c'mon be glad someone's honest.
7:12 "Hire middle aged women who are hyper conscientious and agreeable... they'll do everything." Wow, I never thought of it that way. That's my experience too.
Dash277 it’s crazy he said that because my work just brought in a middle aged manager from out of state who just fired one supervisor already. She’s definitely salty.
Want the president of the US to take this personality test...think it'd be very functional (even if only he'd get the results). A bit concerned about him.
so clear
I wouldn't be too "concerned" about our President, if I were you. He's doing great.
Simon Bee
Except he needs someone to consult him on “Kessler’s Syndrome” before proceeding on with this “Space Force” thing. However, if war in space becomes inevitable, I plan on buying stock in fiber optics before it goes down. I will become a millionaire for life.
This man is on another level of genius. I love it. Who else pursues these types of conscientious genres like him? A rare breed.
Lots of people. It's a part of Developmental and Personality Psychology and there are litteraly hundreds of professors in this field. Also, lots of his points are debated and he is not right about everything. But this video is from his good old days, when he worked for others, not himself, and made strong points. Now he's a mess, both emotionally and rhetorically.
@@dv6165 Agreed. The fact that most people don’t see such a stark difference is a problem. I didn’t always agree with him before but he was a THINKER. Now he’s just intellectually lazy due to his mental issues.
@@dv6165 I think he became a mess when he took Xanax for long period of time and then stopped taking it. Long withdrawal, hasn’t been the same. Disappointing he would use a drug to escape from his challenges. Does not end well
Funny story so I found this test and I took it and I think I scored similar to this friend he talks about. I got irritated and told my wife and said, “there is no way I’m that disagreeable”
She rolled her eyes and pointed out that I was disagreeing with a test about how disagreeable I was.
We both had a good chuckle over that
Not funny
This is the first Jordan Peterson video I've watched where I agree with everything he says, particularly the point about highly agreeable and conscientious people being exploited in the workplace.
I have listened to many pundits and something about Peterson - his sentence structure or tone of voice or who knows? - is disagreeable. I tune him out and find him boring to listen to despite his great smarts.
Yes, everything he says here lines up pretty well with lived experience. I think he's right or at least reasonable more of the time than many liberals and the Leftists realize or perhaps want to admit (I myself would identify as a Leftist). But he's still vain, dishonest, and a bit of an intellectual lightweight. All this, very unfortunately, adds up to him being to weak to resist the siren-song of idol worship on the part of his fans, too many of whom are right-wing weirdos with huge chips on their shoulders. And of course at this point we all know that he's an astonishingly unapologetic hypocrite.
Out of personal experience, I worked for a temp company for about 4 years, because I get bored easily and I was able to jump around on multiple sites. In theory, the guys who work directly for the companies should be the ones talking to the supervisors, but on the majority of sites, I was the one who had to ask the questions and look at the plans to figure out wtf we're supposed to be doing. Maybe its because I don't really recognize authority in general, but I was never afraid to voice that I don't understand the reason for X or Y. If it doesn't make sense to me, I will question it, even if the order comes from the highest office. When others look away, I will stare and say what we're all thinking
@@EyeLean5280 sounds like someone is salty that a known figure points out the stupidity of leftism
@@EyeLean5280 well, Jordan Peterson is highly disagreeable as that is what he preaches now days as what people need to be more of. But being highly disagreeable is a trait of narcissism.
It's no surprise him being 'vain' and 'weak to the siren song of idol worship' (narcissists like admiration from people, it reaffirms their power and vanity, he's not weak when he knows exactly what he is doing. A disagreeable person is a better manipulator) are being associated with him.
My mum is quite agreeable and extremely conscientious. I always ask her how on earth she manages to do all the work she does for such little money
I'm very high on agreeableness and conscientiousness but I also know my worth. I don't cause conflict but I remove myself from situations where I might not be appreciated or able to reach my potential. I had a period where I was job hopping a bit more frequently than I would have preferred but I always moved somewhere I felt I could grow more and the people I left always had nice things to say about me. Every time I moved jobs I had acquired additional skills and experiences and always came with glowing references so I was largely able to keep moving to more attractive/higher paid positions. You don't have to force yourself to be less agreeable. You just need to know what you're worth and not stick around if you're not properly appreciated/compensated.
Perfect advice.
In fact such excellent advice you could do a podcast of your story that i think may be very beneficial to others.
You are very very smart thanks for the tips
Very nice story
Its called avoidance. You shouldn’t do that
I am a horribly agreeable person and I drive myself crazy with it. Listening to Jordan has made me learn a lot about my habit of nurturing others. Long live Dr.Peterson! 😊
Do something about it
As a mother and a woman who is very high in agreeableness and conscientiousness, I support his theory. I can also speak to being used in corporate. I am someone that works very hard, hates conflicts, and dont often even take credit for my ideas... or I was. I am trying to work on boundaries and such.
You should try farting in public
You will overcome many fears with this simple trick.
Complainer
You could change company you work for its easier to start from scratch then change an already established dynamic
This video is meant to help people manage their agreeableness and disagreeable sides so they can properly achieve success in a career and follow their own ambitions. Basically he’s telling people what’s preventing them from going to bat for themselves rather than being just a “pushover” all the time. There’s a time and a place for both.
@Sincere what makes you think you’re more well-informed than he is? 😉😎🤔
@@sfk1066 we all have the entire internet at our disposal. /s
@@skachor hmmm 🤔 you don’t say….🤔😉👍
I feel that though it is good for agreeable people to hear this and learn something about themselves so they can better protect themselves, those of us who are more disagreeable would do well to try and recognize these traits in others and do our part to appreciate and look out for them.
9:50 I was the agreeable person that just did what my mom and brother wanted, but when I needed them they were no where to be found. Last year, especially around Christmas was a really traumatic time for me. My husband was working all the time. I was trying and failing to get a new job, which I eventually did get but it took awhile. Now I’m furloughed and sick and still searching for answers. They all want to use you then throw you away. He’s right. The cost for women is high, even from your own loved ones.
Just listened to Dr Garbor Mate on people pleasers and their tendencies to end up with illness. Along with highly ambitious people had chronic illnesses tendencies. I don’t necessarily think it’s a “woman” problem but an unbalanced of proper boundaries within those personalities. I’m not agreeable and blunt female. I value my energy well and have no problem of leaving family if they are toxic. Hopefully you find that authentic self
This is evolutionary psychology at its best. Thank you Dr. Jordan.
It's Dr. Peterson actually.
It's really not
@Music Account i call him pete
@@thefrustratedneetaspirant7777 in australia we might called him Pejord
Evolutionary psychology is a LARP.
I'm a Psychology student, and when I took the NEO 5 test, I got to know I'm a highly disagreeable person. I felt very odd throughout the day, then I searched how to be an Agreeable person and guess what i realised i can never be that, plus this video made my day. ✨
man I WISH I was disagreeable as JBP describes it. Why would you want to be less assertive?
@@zealousepileptic2690 plenty of stupid disagreeable people out there who gets into all sorts of trouble because they disagree just to disagree and have no real reason to.
Lame ass day seems to me, pointless as your existence. Rubbish 🗑 🚮
@@thewalkingjoke3843 br I've ruined so much of my life by being disagreeable
Where can I find this personality test?
I'm super agreeable (male) and this was really interedting to watch. Avoiding conflict has been an issue for me in past relationships but being aware of my natural tendencies helps a lot with managing it 🙂
Thats the attitude
same here.. it's caused me a lot of trouble in my life sofar
Great lecture! When I was a fresh mum, I can confirm I was mentally connected with my baby, and when I was asleep, I could hear the baby movements in my dreams (being asleep)....even today, when she is 10 yo, I still wake up as soon as I hear the door movement.
Werid ah comment
Can't help but like Jordan Peterson. He makes a lot of sense.
I love his lectures. He's a learned man. Much more than myself and we are the same age.
You haven't lived worth two shits then kid. I've lived longer minutes than the years in your sheltered life.
It’s his job. I’m sure you’re a learned man in your field of work. More so that others.
I quit my demanding corporate job suddenly a few months ago after 5 years with the company. Left without fulfilling my notice due to feeling severe burnout. Ive been feeling so guilty and thought maybe i had over reacted, but JP has perfectly clarified exactly what i was going through. Thankful i can be more aware going forward to express myself in my next job, and avoid being exploited🙏
Best of luck to you brother
@James thanks, you too mate. Looking forward to a new start in jan with a much better company and clear boundaries from the start.
I quit my corporate job and took a gap year, was amazing
This discussion reminds me how I really changed at University. When I got there, it became easier for me to analyse the psychology of others. Then, one day, we (a group of five) had to deliver an important paper on a due date. But 2 of them were late to deliver their part so we were late to complete the paper. Then I woke up inside, went straight to the teacher and told him that only 3 of us had done the whole job and explained to him how much we had contributed to our project compared to those 2 lazy busards. He agreed with us and promised our paper marks wouldn't get penalized compared to those 2 fools. I still remember how good it had felt to stop being an exploited goody two shoes. And since then, I never stopped being roughly honest and nobody exploited me since then ! 😂
You sound like a POS cry baby tattle tale.
F
Fuckin snitch
I dislike when someone approaches you as though you aren't working when you are (in a workplace) based upon their personal perception of you. Early on in my working career I just worked very hard and accomplished a lot. I hoped management was observing. I am an agreeable person. I had a boss who was determined to get rid of me. (I always had trouble with women bosses). No matter what I did it was something wrong. The harder and more quietly I worked, the more they would tell THEIR bosses that I wasn't doing anything. (I think they thought I was after their jobs. This happened a couple of times at least). Ah, well.
Thank you for the upload. Recently i abruptly resigned as my manager is defensively disagreeable. I'm older than her - and dare I say it; a thinker - a bit brighter than her. In the end I told my boss she needs a younger, less threatening trainee. Pity really, as the job itself wasn't too bad. But the manager sets the tone; particularly when the owner is so rarely on site. This outline was very helpful, as I am agreeable; up to a point. Once I reached, it's a point of no return.
Took me into my middle age to figure out this about myself, wish Jordan or someone like him had crossed my path much much earlier in life.
There has to be a balance. I am a professional middle manager who has to be able to resolve conflict on a daily basis. I work in distribution which mostly (but not always) employs people of lower to no formal education. My job is to help teach my employees how to improve themselves, most of the time it happens through constructive conflict. The key though is you can't take a day off mentally, you as the leader has to constantly walk the walk. I find myself enjoying the disagreement at times only because I know I can teach someone something, hell even sometimes I'm the learner. Don't give up people, the fact that you listened to this video means you care. Keep going!
The times I learn most is when I am in conflict in some form of another. Either with people around me, or with the work I'm doing that is challenging my abilities. That force pushing against me makes me a stronger and more capable person.
This is exactly how I feel. Compete and win at everything.
My husband's a mngr & said middle aged women w/kids are the best workers; on time, reliable, gets the job done, respectful, good communication, & he hires them over anyone else. He loves that they also always bring food to share. He said they're always putting him in his place. Lol. I guess the business world still just needs good moms too.
Does he pay the women less than his male employees?
Must only apply to his work. They're the absolute worst at mine.
@@helenalang7489 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Is anybody going to tell her?
That's sexist and not what equality is about. Nobody should be hired based on their sex.
Listening to universal truths never gets old.
Thank you for the clarity, Sensei. I so enjoy listening to someone who thinks faster than they can speak. It is a wonderful challenge. Thanks for that, too!!
Man, this is me. Conscientious and agreeable. I’ve learned to be more disagreeable as I’ve gotten older, but it does make work life tougher.
Grow up and deal with it
I like how he tends to say "I think" to signal speculation. I hope everyone else notices that, and isn't assuming his every word is studied and proven
Captain Obvious!
He’s the foremost expert on the topic, so I’ll take his word for it.
@@Benjumanjo that's not how science works...
@@carmangreenway I’m not a scientist, I’m a pragmatist.
@@Benjumanjo is that code for some kinda disability?
I used to be the most agreeable person ever, but inside I was always disagreeable. I had a filter tho and i hated confrontation. Nowadays I have lost that filter, and I'm probably one of the most disagreeable ppl. Its stupid sometimes to be so disagreeable bcuz u say things harshly and sometimes ur wrong, and realize later. But one of the good things about having a disagreeable friend, is that they'll always tell u the hard truth, or at least how they observe u. It might make u mad at first, but them telling u the honest truth is going to make u happier in the long term.
This is a problem for those in management, you need people with a certain level of disagreeableness that you can promote later into management but they also have to be agreeable enough to not make your life a pain in the ass because then you'll need to fire them. The best people achieve a balance, diplomacy, and respect for chain of command. You cannot lead unless you know how to follow. But you also can't lead if you're unwilling or unable to push back or push forward when you need to.
I've always felt the aim is contentment and general enlightenment. In other words a way of living with what life throws at you without going into meltdown, becoming an arsehole, a pushover, or any of the other traps. That requires some kind of philosophical underpinning that's more than simple reaction to events. I like what Peterson says, he's smart but he does veer towards deterministic, billiard ball thinking. The most fascinating people I've ever met needed the affirmation of no other person or material object to validate their sense of self.
Noice, this guy has his own mind and soul 👏
Saw the entire lecture, but JBP never seems to get old.
7:17 This explains a lot about my personality. I often don't know what I want until I am helping others which is why I try to work in field that I am helping people. I feel like somethings not right If I'm not doing something good for someone, and I often feel confused about my purpose and why I even exist. Unfortunately most CSR, Nonprofit, and medical jobs don't pay as much even though in my eyes it's very rewarding and meanful work.
This video came just in my time of need. Thanks professor Jordan 👌🏾
This video gives complete credence to a argument, I just had recently had argument with my mother who was saying it be so much easier in the corporate world if I was more agreeable. I argued having a mind of my own is a strength. All the while my mother in the corporate world will fold like a chair with the slightest hint of discord. FYI, I'm 28 and living by myself.
@@sfdf7599 As a very disagreeable person, your comment is pretty much spot on. I learnt that I can say whatever I need to say as long as i formulate it with diplomacy and courtesy. On the hand when I have in ly early 20s I haden't catch that brutal honesty wasn't so good in the industry/studies ground so I've had a few problems with that. FYI 28yo male from France
As agreeable as mom was, you were so combative and pugnacious, she copped your ass out of there from her hospital bed after that raging beat down!!! I know I'm right! Oh, stop lying to yourself. Solitary confinement is not living by yourself!
@Ed Nigma like poking others.Poke away my hide is thick.🤣🤔🤣🤣🤣🤠🙏🙏🙏
@@vivienbadergoll5131 And the man with gun still says, "Give me your money please."
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxwqDuBCfUerifjHmnu_CKSh-TDx_YRdI8 🏴☠🦜🤠🙏🙏
I just get angry when agreeable people give a pass to bad behavior or practices. It's like inviting a leech onto your skin.
I'm disagreeable but realised early in life, from childhood when I had to deal with a volatile father, that keeping your calm and pretending gets you places. I am not the hardest worker and I will not exhaust myself but all.my bosses loved me. All of them, men and women 😁 I dropped all of them when the time was right, for more money, better opportunities and they felt so betrayed because I was such a nice girl...
There are millions of people like you out there.
You’re fake; congrats 🎊🎉
I find that in my personal life I am more agreeable than disagreeable but am the direct opposite in the workplace. I am reminded of my report card from kindergarten where my teacher noted that I didn't stand up for myself. That actually surprised me when I read that for the first time as an adult. It also explains why my Dad always told me that I had more heart than anyone and co-workers that don't know me well (bc I surround myself with other conscientious people) consider me to be rude and insensitive. My mind operates on a merit system but todays society absolutely does not so simply my nature creates conflict among many (had a supervisor tell me he hated that I count a good work ethic as valuable)...and that type of conflict does not bother me.
Are most comedians dis-agreeable? The ones i know are brutal but funny at the same time. They will apologize for hurting your feelings then slam you with a big one , getting you to laugh at your own stupidity.
That is the sign of a master comedian.
Insightful and wonderful lecture. I will certainly apply what I learned from this in my workplace.
"You're wired to be exploited by infants' rings undeniably true. Our children, especially in their first nine months, tested my wife's resilience to its utmost. I'm grateful to say she excels as a mother, navigating these challenges with grace. Here's to all the incredible moms out there - keep shining!"
I just found videos of Jordan Peterson a few weeks ago and I have gained so much incite in a shot time, about my own personality and how to deal with and interact with others.
Throughout my life I feel as though I had to wear a mask of high agreeableness. I scored very low on it with many tests. Dealing with people's emotions is very straining to me, seems to always be a chore. Most people I would prefer to only address me if it benefits me in some way. A part of me knows this isn't relatively "good" but I mostly don't even care.
Same
I did this for a long time. It leads to misery and abuse. Don't be agreeable and don't worry about others. You can force your world to behave and act the way you want if you are constantly enforcing your boundaries and taking your desires. Don't worry about those with a problem with you, they are weeds in your garden at best.
Dana Vee: look up what a narcissist is.
🚩🚩🚩
@@cathlaurs9754 Maybe you should.
As a highly agreeable (but also disagreeable on the inside) guy who was once very conscientious, and who has now shifted to neuroticism, I needed to hear this.
relatable AF
how does one be agreeable
but also be disagreeable "on the inside"????
@@therearenoshortcuts9868 means he doesn't really say what he thinks.
Women can become like this due to severe abuse by parents growing up as well. I did. I am now in my early 60's and just gained the knowledge of this around 10 years ago. I have changed how I react now in a relationship with men, in hopes of preventing the abusive men with his antenna out looking for such a women to abuse from targeting me.
MBTI is the key to understanding people. Very underrated!! -INTJ
JP said here he's agreeable. He does an outstanding job looking as the other side of the spectrum.
I hope these students know how privileged they were , having this professor..
To have a real Professor in these days when there are only ideologues now
This is a basic and also great lecture by JBP. I also tried Big five, and got
Agreeableness
score: 96 - high
Agreeableness reflects individual differences in concern with cooperation and social harmony. Agreeable individuals value getting along with others.
This video is like 50 years of emotional experience distilled into a 10 minute video
Watched it again. Jordan makes some very good gender points, especially the female “wired for an infant” trait”
, the sacrificial personality component of the equation, but there other factors at play as well.
Although there's plenty of mammas whose baby circuit blows a.fuse. catches on fire always have been.
IMO the best mindset to have is be disagreeable with tact. Tact is key.
Leadership
I am and always have been like the friend . Its never been harder than it is right now.
This video really realize how disagreeable I am.. how that differs from most others. Very enlightening. What a wise dude.
Thank you for these clips! Very insightful
Subscribe to my new channel, because this one will be deleted soon: th-cam.com/channels/7QYyDlAJ4PJ0qIBlf0IeDg.html
5:42 - 6:00 'Outcome based education', concocted by the UN and pushed on unsuspecting countries via the Washington Accord has created this freeloader mentality. My youngest sister was subjected to this style of education. Typically assignments were issued by the teacher and grades were allotted according to the the ability of the pupil. Since she's highly gifted and produced extraordinary projects, she received the same grade as an Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron whos project was complete shambles, but at the appropriate 'level'.
The outcome is predictable: the over achiever is demoralised not to put in the effort and the freeloader doesn't have any incentive to start achieving. Thus the communist mantra of 'equal outcome' is beautifully achieved.
I’m going through a rough point with my career ( or lack of) rn, but he’s right when he says a business loves to hire agreeable and highly conscious women. I’ve been an example, working at an e-grocery commerce warehouse at the age of 18, I was quickly highlighted and sought out by many different “managers” or line production leaders to do even the most time-wasteful tasks such as pulling out empty cardboard boxes and sit them inside of a bigger one, only to be moved from that within 5 minutes. Another morning, (we worked from 7pm-5:30 am with two 30-minute-breaks) I was intentionally pulled by one of the production managers after finishing all of the work we had to complete that day, and verbally forced when I hesitated. They let the rest of my coworkers go home along with the rest of the entire warehouse besides a total of 18 people. Myself included. Eight of those people left immediately because they could smell the bs, but it made the workload harder on the rest of us. I cannot blame them though nor do I hold any animosity, but this was a very good conversation to have. Now, these days, I’m highly disagreeable and it doesn’t make it so fun, but it’s truly more due to high defensiveness from not giving myself at least that for my entire childhood and adolescence. Hell, I’m only 20 now, which is still pretty young and I know I’ve got a lot to learn. Everyone does. I’d just rather be safe than sorry. I’ll let you in on a secret though, I do feel remorse after any confrontation, especially afterwards I’ll just immediately blame myself and invalidate all of my behavior, but in the moment I’m only thinking of defending myself, however; I will always admit to when I’m wrong and I expect the other person to do the same. That’s the frustrating part. You can’t change people so that’s why boundaries and a sense of self worth is indeed important among many other qualities. Stay safe to all but evil people, with much love 💗
Wow you put that very well and I’m happy for you to learn that lesson and only be 20 is priceless. I’ve spent most of my adult life and most of my childhood being agreeable. It makes it extremely difficult to even be fair. Especially to myself. I’ve been in positions with people made my life absolute hell and by luck or happenstance I got a leg up on those people and was in a position to punish them. Or too at the very least hold them accountable for the things they did to make my life hell. But I didn’t do it I wonder now that I’m older if my life would’ve been better if I had taken those opportunities to exercise the power to give those people they’re just dues. To punish them write them the bad evaluation or just sending a letter expressing what was done. Not so much to punish them but to validate my own feelings of hurt and to acknowledge that I was abused. I think if I had taken those opportunities my life would be better I think I would be in a better place especially mentally. I think you can only get hit so many times. Before you begin to feel less then. So once again I’m happy that you’re doing this at 20. Don’t feel guilty know that you’re doing the right thing. I think when you lay down and let people walk on you it’s a betrayal to yourself.
Wish i was so smart at 20
As a disagreeable (creative not scientific) high-functioning genius, it’s much easier to tell idiots to fuck off, get fired/quit, and latch onto a higher quality company willing to pay you what you want.
Burn bridges, not every time, but sometimes you just gotta torch the place and watch it burn. Oh and remember to lie in order to get what you want because the truth is for superstitious old women.
It doesn't work at all being an agreeable people if we're trying to forge a career. So true and yet at some companies where the managers don't welcome any disagreeable people at all where you need to be yes man all the time unfortunately or otherwise you might lose your position (that's a toxic manager and culture kind of company). Thanks for the video!! Nicely done!
Love Jordan Peterson! Bless him!
I scored the second percentile at agreeableness, first percentile at compassion and 98th percentile in neuroticism, which means that I'm quite the unbearable person. I can't keep friends, I have a relationship but that's not going well either. I'm trying to change and all useful tips are welcome, so please share a few if you have them, my life is not miserable but it's certainly no fun for me, let alone other people.
Adopt responsibility, push yourself out your comfort zone. Challenge your current thought processes and practice patience, practice thinking before speaking. Practice compassion. Help ppl who need it. Find value in it. Don't go into it expecting things either. Just go with the flow 😎 don't fight the current you'll only exhaust yourself. Let it push you to your destination.
Meditate with some psilocybin mushrooms. They changed my life
Just be reborn with other stats.
I'd already discovered psilocybine mushrooms and ayahuasca in 2019 but that didn't do much for me. Recently I discovered 5MEO-DMT in the first episode of Hotboxin with Mike Tyson, smoked it 5 times asap, which was a few weeks ago. I've never felt and been better in my whole damn life, but thanks for replying and the suggestions, much appreciated!
@@jozan9 this is gold
As a newly postpartum mom, this was very helpful.
I was hoping to come across a video that would help me figure out why I can be so nice, but easily hold grudges, get angry easily, am described as aggressive, and why I am having such a hard time taking things personally when I don't get my way and disagree. It is straining me in my relationship to the point that I think about moving out and not only cause I am petty but because I love my boyfriend enough for him to not have to suffer as well. He's a very patient and loving person. I didn't use to be this way I used to be able to control all my negative emotions better than I do now. I can have an amazing day and let a little thing drive me mad and let it ruin my day. I really am grateful to come across this video from Jordan because I knew he could help me see it and figure out what to do next ! Thank you so much for your all knowing wisdom.
Get Jordans book rules for life. Get a therapist. Get off social media. Volunteer.
@@annwethenorth Hey thanks for the advice. I will check out that book for sure and seek additional help!
This really makes me realize how conscientious and disagreeable I am. On the big 5 I got 0th percentile for agreeableness and 90% for conscientiousness. Oof. I relate on being very trust worthy though. I may be harsh at times, but I tell the truth and do exactly what I say I’ll do.
Same here, i am terrible disagreeable and conscienttious. I just learned to by that way with out pushing people away but get them motivated to do better. I learned you need to say the harsh truth to get them move them self. when they see i dont do it out of malicious, than they start to accept what i say and often start to change things. Some are realy thankfull.
I have a friend like that. It is in fact hilarious.
Only if you're not oh the receiving end, and rightfully so. Everything is funny until it happens to you :p
@@jordanchen23 lol .... i just put them in a the naughty room ... den they will be ok🤣
I got into JP before he got super famous watching his lectures.
He's still a great thinker, regardless of his forays into non-academia, and these videos prove it.
OMG this makes so much sense, I used to be a somewhat disagreeable person and somehow along the way I became more agreeable, and I realise it’s harder to set strong boundaries. It’s affected my career progression too. On watching this, I realised the change really started after I gave birth, freaky!
I've done the OCEAN test too. I've got 99 on disagreeability, which was a bit more than I expected and curiously not so surprising for my colleagues, friends and family.
Everything I heard above matches.
The funny thing is a colleague, when asked about my disagreeableness, told me that yes, I was disagreeable (or more politely "you know what you want") but at the same time I was a nice guy. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that ^_^;;;
I completely understand that fire-o-matic friend. I can't stand lazy dead weight, the narcissists that find every excuse not to work, put the blame on other teams, openly lie, come almost before breakfast and leave after a two hours lunch. Just the idea of getting rid of them makes me feel all warm inside.
It feels strange. I’ve always considered myself more of a peacemaker and non-combative when I work. So I guess that makes me and “agreeable” person. But while I’ve always admired the leader types, I still managed to attain a good career and be conscientious enough to go hard and firm when I feel that I’m in the right, especially against this woke plague sweeping the nation.
Hearing Jorden talk here makes it seem like being agreeable is more of a pushover, so hopefully this means that I struck a good balance between agreeable and disagreeable.
Me too finally- took years though to find a balance- Bering too agreeable can be parasitic and enervating.
Though I’ve also had a blast because people enjoy agreeable people.
This is very interesting. I did the 5 Big test a few months ago and I scored extremely high in disagreableness, however, I've found myself in situations (mainly at work or among people I respect) where I held back my "explosiveness" so to speak, as to avoid saying something overly conflictive when it's not necessary. However, I've also found myself in places where I was, perhaps, too agreable, and I think it was because I'm still working on my flaws and I haven't found the right middle point. I think personality can be trained, like everything else, but you may be limited to some degree by genetics or experiences.
Why aren't you turning your disagresableness into your power instead? That's the real flaw.
@@Mushimiya Tf? I said I was too dissagreable and I'm trying to find a proper balance. What would be called being reasonable and knowing how to deal with people without needing to bow the head nor causing conflict.
I SEEMED very agreeable. Sometimes I exploded. Scared the hell out of people. It took five men to keep me from choking someone, maybe to their death. A disproportionate response. Just as much keeping it inside is often an inappropriate response. You need to be thoughtful and mindful in all that you do. Otherwise is sin that you know is wrong, because you hate it when it's done to you. Being frank or blunt is not the issue some people will love that in you as they love me. So exploding is not loving to yourself, or anyone around you.
Most articulate person I've ever heard. Amazing use of a brain. What amazes me is that what he speaks about is relevant to my life!
Jordan Peterson is a very helpful individual and he makes sense for the most part. There are always going to be disagreeable people we just have to learn to deal with them in a non - apprehensible way.
I get the feeling you aren't picking up on what he's saying.
Disagreeable people are good just as agreeable people are good. It's a spectrum of response to early life circumstances and biology.
He's not referring to disagreeable people as something like 'people you don't like'.
@baronvonbeandip you've got it. I was in a job where I was suddenly in demand for my "disagreeableness", now I'm a Nurse and very agreeable with patients and a conscientious worker. Butvive always been willing to stand up for what is right, and to correct errors I see. So when in a consulting job for a large Heakth care company, my ability to not hide truth, and only smooth things down was needed to inspire new ideas, poke at old ways that weren't working. My dusagrreableness made me a catalyst. Upset those trying to not have to work, but with tne leadership team revitalized work routines, revitalized billing practices. No I got no accolades but it felt good to do tne work, and make a difference.
Very interesting discussion. I find even when you start to speak up for yourself people will still not back down, so this kind of contradicts the law of effect. Yesterday I read that they will amp up their shitty behaviour even more before they stop. I have found that speaking up for myself has worked for me though, a couple of dopes I met a few years ago would constantly stupid shit to me and I insulted them in a really honest way and they didn't give me any more hassle. One teen that was in my college class thought he was so great, telling me he had achieved more than me, and I'm like this stupid idiot doesn't know me, and he was very dull, so i called him a dull bastard and he barely said a word to me for the rest of the year.
Hearing him talk about how his friend loved firing the unproductive people just sung to my soul. That sounds like such a cool job!! I'm adding that to my list of things I want in life, I need more of these disagreeable people as my friends. I've seen so many people that live behind their excuses of why something is holding them back and don't put forth any effort to change. There are things that suck in life but if you let every sucky thing become a reason to not do something then man c'mon, go be unproductive elsewhere.
Man this guy is just so smart. Love listening to him
I've recently discovered that by nature M'm a disagreeable person and this lecture is fascinating.
Disagree with this, the sun is going to burn you and all your family, I dare you child. Keep learning from other humans. Pitiful stinky meat bags all of you.
I can understand the need for the disagreeable type in business. Business is competitive and you need these types to win. But reading criminal profiling books and understanding how regular people "snap" and go on murderous rampages at work, I can also why there must be more agreeable types that are sensitive to other peoples feelings, and more caring, and probably more in tune with major behavior changes in their coworkers....a good HR department.
Hah good one, I can guarantee that most workplace rage is generated due to the HR department being giant plasteel dicks
If you could understand to be bitter for them so they wonder why you are so bitch so they dont need to do business with you.Problem solved. Disagreeabilty anticipated and applied for prevention. It is a pre bye due the analysis on local culture or International research. Have the decency to leave .
"Highly disagreeable people "
This is a subject that Mr. Peterson surely excels at .
I don't agree with everything he says in its totality but I really enjoy his presence and deliverance of his lectures. He makes me want to read up on some evolutionary and personality psychology research. He also makes me want to delve into other theories to challenge his hypotheses, as his entire outlook on society and humans seems to revolve around the paradigm of evolutionary and personality psychology, yet there are some many other viable and interesting theories that have credence. Definitely a man of motivation.
Sounds like being a very agreeable person, is a very sad life
pam m to a point yes.
I don't know if i would say its a sad life but my friend's seem to often have to make me aware of the fact that i am being taken advantage of because I have such a hard time saying no. Agreeable people should befriend non agreeable people who can keep an eye out for things like that, in my opinion.
Agreeable people are happier IIRC ;) Life is nice without complexes, and with good relationships.
supernova definitely agree. I think that disagreeable people generally are more pessimistic due to their sort of fixation on the real world and the inclusion of negative emotions in their lives. Since they are less emotionally tuned, they lack that connection with others that agreeable people base themselves on.
It's the best life if you learn to be assertive as well
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with chickens.
Especially when those chickens are so terrified to be holding a job they have no interest in and can't actually do that they will peck relentlessly at the eagle until they bleed it out from a thousand cuts. They are taught to do this in University.
You can't really fly with chickens, chickens are too fat to fly.
If you can fly at all, compared among chickens you'd easily be seen to excel.
Eagles don't fly in flocks: Curtis Jackson
...when your're running with turkeys!
Thank you, I just needed to here this. ❤