@@bensonbright I'd say he was the master of delivering punchlines regardless of where they landed. Sometimes it was the traditional location at the end of the joke, sometimes it came after, and sometimes they were sprinkled throughout the story he told during an otherwise mediocre joke. He took jokes that wouldn't be funny if anyone else told them and made them hilarious.
@@jeppolini9774 As a lifelong Conan watcher, I only realized toward the end what a waste Richter was the entire time. An Adam Eget-like character would've been infinitely funnier, but as we can see Andy was too prissy. What a shame....And yes, I did just give Adam Eget a compliment.
I remember in school, in the UK, in the 1970's, we used to tell that joke. Only it was seven guys that had to know. It took four to hold 'Andy' down... 😁
11:44 this is why norm is the michael jordan of comedy. Andy says being swedish german is not funny. Norm proceeds to make being swedish german so funny that people on the street still call andy the swedish german even after norm is gone
Knows how to take a punch? He whines incessantly on Conan’s podcast about how much norms jokes bothered him, didn’t even have the balls to talk about it while he was alive
@@Coldcloves @tuurdemeester apparently doesn't understand decimals, or maybe he's just playing the dumb guy again. This thing has levels. We can all agree that it's not the absolute best Andy the Swedish German joke though.
Norm's smile... you know that smile is 'cause he knows that Conan knows that his joke is ridiculous... and the more he pretends it isn't ridiculous... the more he knows that Conan knows its absolutely ridiculous, yet Conan plays along. Gotta love Norm.
Look at Norm's face reading his list of things he gave up on. See how he's enjoying every moment, looking at Conan like a mischievous child in anticipation for a reaction each time. Such a legend.
…the best part was his 5 minute explanation to the audience of what a succubus was just so he could later read that one line about dressing like an incubus…I mean even typing succubus and incubus right now makes me feel how ridiculous that night was…always seems like every part is the best part..
Norm and David Letterman were heartwarming. And Andy was such a good sport. Norm and Conan are truly entertaining. Conan waiting for what comes next draws us in. And Norm never failed to hit it out of the park. Too soon.
It’s right up there with “Doc, she’s choking.” I think Norm’s greatest talent was making people laugh at things they didn’t want to laugh at. It's the purest and highest form of comedy, to make someone genuinely laugh while also making them uncomfortable. He did it to Conan a lot.
You get so busy watching Andy and Norm go at it the end of the joke that it's hard to notice that Conan can't contain his laughter, to the point that he has to get up from his chair, when you laugh so hard that it hurts to sit still, geez - Norm is a joke machine.
I just found out recently that Andy’s son is gay. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t find those gay jokes funny. But then again, it might just be his Swedish German heritage
During the Lent list bit, I kinda hoped that after saying "stop paying thousands of dollars trying to learn to seduce Andy Ricter's wife" and letting the people laugh a little, he was gonna go "Oh wait-- this is Andy Ricter's Lent list!" as a final punch line.
Despite being a legitimately funny guy, Andy Richter made a fatal rookie mistake with Norm Macdonald: he took the bait. Andy Richter to this day is bothered by these jokes, and that is why Norm MacDonald relentlessly, ruthlessly and consistently went after Andy. Andy just cannot help himself and Norm trolled him to the extreme *every* *single* *time*
If the show is fronted by a comic, and has his name in the title, and you appear every night, off to one side of him, you are his sidekick. A sidekick exists to be the butt of jokes. The fact that only one person honoured that convention doesn’t mean he was wrong. Norm was just keeping it real.
He wanted Andy to be his Adam. But Andy wasn't his Adam, he was Conan's Andy, and I do think he was misused. Not that it wasn't funny, but it also wasn't nice.
@@Barnaclebeard nope. Conan’s sidekick was Andy. When Norm got a show with his name in the title, he got himself a sidekick. Fella goes by the name, Adam Eget. The big difference is Norm (and to a lesser extent Adam) are comedians, so they get it. Conan (and to a lesser extent Andy) are writers, so they get butthurt.
@@graemecreegan6749Well to be clear. The Conan show obviously had writers that weren’t Conan and Andy, meaning for the 20 or so years they were on TV they had a major role in front of the live audience. And Conan, butthurt? I really have not seen any example of that occurring.
And, to think, thirty years later, Andy is still (retroactively) sore about a bit that *he* started where Norm keeps intimating that Andy the Swedish-German is gay.
Sometimes I get a feeling that they were in a secret relationship, and that It didn't work only becaude only Norm was open about his deeply closed lack of possession of a doghouse!!!
It was never personal towards Andy. Conan’s sidekick could have been anyone - that person is the fall person for the jokes. Andy played it well for a while, but clearly it go to him and he took it personally. It wasn’t. That was part of Andy’s job really.. to be the fall guy.
I always liked Andy but will never forgive him for distancing himself so aggressively after Norm died, like trying to call him out or something. Really awful move by him literally within days of the man’s death. You know what they say; speak ill of the dead!
Andy and his wife had Norm cancelled from what would have been his last appearance on Conan, because Norm had expressed sympathy for his friends Rosanne and Louis C.K. when their careers were sent into a tailspin.
@@mirkomeyerhoff2700 Can't recall where I heard it, but I distinctly remember Norm coming to the defense of both Rosanne and Louie shortly after those news stories broke, which was very risky to his career. He was friends with both of them, so I think he felt a duty to stand by them in their time of need. Plus, neither one of them is Swedish-German.
I miss Norm MacDonald What a loss to the world! I will pray for America. P God Bless you. I wish Andy would come around to loving the attention Norm MacDonald gave him through the years
Unfortunately, I just learned that Andy has committed himself body and soul to righteous jihad against the Great Satan that is America. While I do not personally agree with Andy Richter's choice to bring death to every man, woman and child in our great nation, I do respect his right to self-determination.
Andy didnt have the humility to be Norm's Adam Eget, who took part in some of the best comedic moments in history imo. Andy had that opportunity, but he thought he was Norm's equal and tried to outwit him. I mean, obviously Andys not gay. But a) who cares, and b) being insignant about it backfired. backfired.6
@@Katya_Lastochka Hear hear! I still think Andy might be a homo, because countless hint that Norm MacDonald's digs against them were rooted in deep truths that Norm MacDonald otherwise played dumb to recognizing in them, which made the humor more pervasive and complex. Norm MacDonald was heavily influenced by many folks, including David Letterman, whose wont is to slip in inside jokes that the home audience does not know into much of his humor (the studio audience and/or the crew or guests might be in on David's extra jokes). Do you like Tarkovsky? I have seen "Solaris" and "Andrei Rublev" I was going to record a podcast on Norm MacDonald with a Norm MacDonald DEITY but canceled at the last minute (I had a hot date in Detroit). That happened to be the VERY DAY Norm MacDonald DIED! It was so spooky!
Andy is genial, I like him. He’s part of the Conan show, which was my favorite late night show, so he’s alright by me. But a couple of his and his wife’s tweets bordered on trashing Norm… I was ready to jump ship on Andy. He redeemed himself by some respectful comments after Norm’s passing. RIP Norm. While you were here, you were THE BEST.
@@Massacretalitor Andy mentioned that some Norm fans would refer to him as “Swedish German“, and noted the origin of the phrase. He also said words to the effect of that it was lame to tease somebody by insinuating that they are gay, and furthermore, if he were gay, he would be out and proud. I don’t remember the wife’s contribution, except that she was pretty strident about it. I believe Norm responded in a very respectful and polite way.
‘There’s nothing wrong with being gay. Unless you’re not gay. Then there’s something horribly wrong with it.’ Haha
Must’ve been referring to them prisons
That 5¢ per customer joke killed me.
It's such a corny old joke but it still works
The "simple arithmetic" part always fucking gets me 😂
😂
I saw it coming from a mile away, but it was still hilarious. Andy just saw it coming.
😂😂
"Because you weren't gay, you were raped" followed by a massive roar from the crowd.
Norm explaining the joke is often funnier than the punch line.
@@brianb2783"It was a punchline. Norm is a genius at creating two or three punchlines with the last always being the unexpected but always the best.
@@bensonbright I'd say he was the master of delivering punchlines regardless of where they landed. Sometimes it was the traditional location at the end of the joke, sometimes it came after, and sometimes they were sprinkled throughout the story he told during an otherwise mediocre joke. He took jokes that wouldn't be funny if anyone else told them and made them hilarious.
Swedish Germans are so sensitive 😂
@@brianb2783bingo!!!! He always was Picasso with it, sometimes him even saying the obvious punchline is a twist in itself hahahaha
The fact that Andy still isn't over these jokes and had gone on long monologs about them on Conan's podcast, makes them even funnier.
I also like how norm made andy say, on national tv, that theres more dignity in being raped than being gay
Extra funny when Conan's done plenty of jokes in the same vein towards Jordan Schlansky; maybe the issue is rather being the butt of the joke?
He really is a sweetish German.
@@jeppolini9774 As a lifelong Conan watcher, I only realized toward the end what a waste Richter was the entire time. An Adam Eget-like character would've been infinitely funnier, but as we can see Andy was too prissy. What a shame....And yes, I did just give Adam Eget a compliment.
@@callanc3925 lol. Well, more signity than being a gay prostitute.
Swedish German one was the best, so damn savage. Norm had such a unique way of telling jokes. Absolutely unique and a form of art.
I remember in school, in the UK, in the 1970's, we used to tell that joke. Only it was seven guys that had to know. It took four to hold 'Andy' down... 😁
Norm was basically the only guest that even acknowledged Andy.
People are so rarely acknowlwledged. Remember the good old days when we'd all go out acknowlwledging?
@@ryantiller5624 Yep, then we'd all go follow a garbage truck.
@@Lindenrd25
…those were the days…now ruined by this meddling bureaucracy…
😂
At least Andy wasn't a virulent holocaust denier
Andy richter doesn’t own a doghouse
well he’s Swedish German
Best comment ever
😂
Wanna go get some chicken?
Never went to the university of science neither. What a looser
How the hell is it I can watch these same clips repeatedly and laugh every time.
Same here
It was Norm’s gift. I recently watched him tell the oldest joke ever and laughed till I had tears.
YES!! RIP Norm... the GOAT slow burn king and trolling master.
we all love norm
Conan can’t keep it together. Norm breaks him every chance he gets
Poor Andy, he jumped in appropriately with that joke and got marked for life.
Exactly lol
11:44 this is why norm is the michael jordan of comedy. Andy says being swedish german is not funny. Norm proceeds to make being swedish german so funny that people on the street still call andy the swedish german even after norm is gone
You can see the exact moment he goes "not funny eh? Time to pull out an andy richter joke"
He took it personal like mj
This is amazing and made me laugh even harder
Andy Richter claiming hes swedish german was a joke on it's own, stop acting like norm is the only comedian in the room
@skellymen2395 yeah, it was the Andy Richter joke, of course how could we forget
"Gay porn is just a genre that cuts across all demographics."🤣🤣🤣
But this guy really likes it
Getting a rape joke on tv and calling another man unwillingly gay was the pinnacle of comedy. RIP Bean King
@@dejuren1367 I didn't know only mexicans could enjoy beans.
I don't get the bean king part??? please help, honestly
His delight while saying you were raped, was fucking hilarious.
insane pfp
@@jamesdavis3851 The bean king is the guy who finds the bean in the cake.
"There's nothing wrong with being gay. Unless you're NOT gay.. then it's the WORST thing you can be." is such a great, buried, throwaway line.
Just like what happened with that swedish-german fella
Andy is a masterclass in how to be a good co-host. The man knows how to take a punch, and put a cherry on top. Seriously an underrated skill.
No need to be sarcastic.
@@MartinHiggins1972gsh
Knows how to take a punch? He whines incessantly on Conan’s podcast about how much norms jokes bothered him, didn’t even have the balls to talk about it while he was alive
@@seanmurray7804 yea I hadnt heard that yet at the time of my comment.
Andy was useless.
"But this guy really likes it" 😂😂
He’s a good man.
But a dead man😂
@@antonjoubert6980really? I didn’t even know he was sick
@@evannina2681Doc, she's choking!
Yes. He was
The best ever at explaining the joke and making it funnier than the punch line: "9001 dudes!"
And it adds another layer. Because 9,000*0.05 = 45,000 instead of 450. It is Norm playing the dumb guy again... "simple arithmetic!"
@@tuurdemeester I don't understand.. 9k*0.05 equals 450 though
@@Coldcloves @tuurdemeester apparently doesn't understand decimals, or maybe he's just playing the dumb guy again. This thing has levels.
We can all agree that it's not the absolute best Andy the Swedish German joke though.
@@theritchie2173I feel like you get Norm
@@tuurdemeester450.05 / .05 = 9,000. That's the joke.
The hairy guys' asses mansion always makes my lol 😂
Love how it all goes back to Andy saying he likes hairy mens asses
Norm's smile... you know that smile is 'cause he knows that Conan knows that his joke is ridiculous... and the more he pretends it isn't ridiculous... the more he knows that Conan knows its absolutely ridiculous, yet Conan plays along. Gotta love Norm.
“I would like to tell you one story about Andy…”
“I’m scared” 😭
The first Conan clip had me in stitches. Man, no filter on Norm. Love it. RIP.
“I was concerned. It’s simple arithmetic…” 😂
Look at Norm's face reading his list of things he gave up on. See how he's enjoying every moment, looking at Conan like a mischievous child in anticipation for a reaction each time. Such a legend.
the best part is that the paper was blank lol
…the best part was his 5 minute explanation to the audience of what a succubus was just so he could later read that one line about dressing like an incubus…I mean even typing succubus and incubus right now makes me feel how ridiculous that night was…always seems like every part is the best part..
Makes me cry every time! Then I remember he's not with us anymore, and I can't stop crying
Norm and David Letterman were heartwarming. And Andy was such a good sport. Norm and Conan are truly entertaining. Conan waiting for what comes next draws us in. And Norm never failed to hit it out of the park. Too soon.
The little gleeful bounce at 6:20. Haha
Never has the line "you were raped!" been SO hysterically funny.
It’s right up there with “Doc, she’s choking.” I think Norm’s greatest talent was making people laugh at things they didn’t want to laugh at. It's the purest and highest form of comedy, to make someone genuinely laugh while also making them uncomfortable. He did it to Conan a lot.
@@brianb2783 THAT is one of Norm's greatest punch lines!! SO visual ....
“That’s your hero?!” 😂
“…But this guy really likes it.” 😂
Andy was the first Adam Eget... sorry for Andy that he didn't get it, norm only mocked people he liked
That's possibly true, but did he like OJ?
@@derekbrown2215i mean later in life he said he liked him so yeah
@@timothyapplescotch1361 He said he was a "good guy", but did he like him?
I think he got it but the jokes were so pointed it's hard not to take a bit of it to heart
I know what’s coming and yet I cry laughing every single time:)
"You were raped!" 🤣🤣🤣
"Why would I lie about that, it's not funny."
Never challenge the master.
5 cents is a good deal, considering I spent $15 last night
Damn, I can't manage it 300 times in one night any more. The joys of old age.
Queensboro Bridge, eh?
Inflation's crazy
Oh Norm, what a battle-axe
Any fella that has another fella admit hes a Swedish german on tv and have him be happy about it is a man to be feared
You get so busy watching Andy and Norm go at it the end of the joke that it's hard to notice that Conan can't contain his laughter, to the point that he has to get up from his chair, when you laugh so hard that it hurts to sit still, geez - Norm is a joke machine.
Ah Norm, you were just the best!
I just found out recently that Andy’s son is gay. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t find those gay jokes funny. But then again, it might just be his Swedish German heritage
The man’s a genius 😂
I always loved Norm on the Conan show. Conan really got Norm’s humor and the two of them were hilarious
Now i see how he got the inspiration to treat his side kick Adam Eget
There will never be another Norm. Thankfully, for Andy.
“Well, you know what, I asked you how are you…”
“Eh?!”
The more he says he's not gay, the more upset he gets .
"It's like quicksand - the more you struggle....."
Ever since that first joke Andy gave him, he ran with it
The fact that Andy never punched Norm proves that he loves gay porn.
Who doesn’t love gay porn?
During the Lent list bit, I kinda hoped that after saying "stop paying thousands of dollars trying to learn to seduce Andy Ricter's wife" and letting the people laugh a little, he was gonna go "Oh wait-- this is Andy Ricter's Lent list!" as a final punch line.
That's a definite improvement! 🤣
Yeah, I can even hear the pause and Norm’s sprite grin
@@warren52nz Thanks! That's a major compliment 💓
@@MrWalkerpercy Haha, right? I was honestly so sure that's how he was gonna end it 😂
😂 Hahahahahaha
This is a gem!
Mr Roper Norman Fell was in the first Ocean's 11 in the 60's
Every single one of these clips looks like it was run over by a different vehicle and damaged in a different way
Reminds me of that tragedy..
@kuroneko334 It’s okay, I was in Northern Canada.
Second time I’ve reiterated this joke in the last few days, but it’s so appropriate
Andy tried to have them destroyed.
Simple arithmetic that’s 9001 dudes 😂
His rant on Bob Dole and Gay Porn was pure Norm!
I'm so deeply closeted that I was confused by most of this. I liked the jokes though.
So you’re gay?
@@DailyJuggle No he's not gay! Why would say such a thing? He said he's deeply closeted.
9:50 "So I said, so I said I’m ... so he said, you know ! I said I’m sorry about that” 😮
Despite being a legitimately funny guy, Andy Richter made a fatal rookie mistake with Norm Macdonald: he took the bait. Andy Richter to this day is bothered by these jokes, and that is why Norm MacDonald relentlessly, ruthlessly and consistently went after Andy. Andy just cannot help himself and Norm trolled him to the extreme *every* *single* *time*
Andy landed couple good punches back too!
Never made me laugh
@@Jim-su7enwhy are you here?
@@boardskins this guys favourite comedian is brendan schaub, andrew shultz and joe rogan.
@ezeqeel8352 None of his punches landed. He was just blindly flailing his arms around.
“He has a great wife!” 😂😂😂
This is the best pride month video
Norm putting into the gay box, knowing Andy is politically correct and absolutely abusing the sidekick role is genius
I miss him so much. I bet he makes the angels laugh.
Who misses Norm?
Should have been in chronological order
9:55 A clown-prince... an absolute clown-prince.
👍🏼😂👍🏼
I really appreciate Norm's feigned autism.
lost art form
Norm a national treasure
If the show is fronted by a comic, and has his name in the title, and you appear every night, off to one side of him, you are his sidekick. A sidekick exists to be the butt of jokes. The fact that only one person honoured that convention doesn’t mean he was wrong. Norm was just keeping it real.
He wanted Andy to be his Adam. But Andy wasn't his Adam, he was Conan's Andy, and I do think he was misused. Not that it wasn't funny, but it also wasn't nice.
@@Barnaclebeard nope. Conan’s sidekick was Andy. When Norm got a show with his name in the title, he got himself a sidekick. Fella goes by the name, Adam Eget.
The big difference is Norm (and to a lesser extent Adam) are comedians, so they get it.
Conan (and to a lesser extent Andy) are writers, so they get butthurt.
@@graemecreegan6749 cogitate more.
@@graemecreegan6749Well to be clear. The Conan show obviously had writers that weren’t Conan and Andy, meaning for the 20 or so years they were on TV they had a major role in front of the live audience. And Conan, butthurt? I really have not seen any example of that occurring.
@@fshoaps Shoaps. A Swedish-German name if I’m not mistaken.
And, to think, thirty years later, Andy is still (retroactively) sore about a bit that *he* started where Norm keeps intimating that Andy the Swedish-German is gay.
Andy always looked familiar to me I couldn't quite place it... then I remembered the time I met him under the Queensboro Bridge
That last joke was gold😂
Who gave you 5 cents? Everyone of them... Hahahaha!
The voices and bits of business Norm adds to these old jokes. He’s a one off.
Sometimes I get a feeling that they were in a secret relationship, and that It didn't work only becaude only Norm was open about his deeply closed lack of possession of a doghouse!!!
Andy Richter the Swedish German story is one of the funniest jokes ever!!
It was never personal towards Andy. Conan’s sidekick could have been anyone - that person is the fall person for the jokes. Andy played it well for a while, but clearly it go to him and he took it personally. It wasn’t. That was part of Andy’s job really.. to be the fall guy.
The GOAT of talk show comedy. I mean norm.
I always liked Andy but will never forgive him for distancing himself so aggressively after Norm died, like trying to call him out or something. Really awful move by him literally within days of the man’s death. You know what they say; speak ill of the dead!
What did he do exactly??
'Hairy Guy's Asses' had some great articles by Gore Vidal, Norman Mailer and Burt Reynolds.
Not often you have those involuntary laugh out loud moments like this.
I read HGA for the same reason as Andy!
Andy and his wife had Norm cancelled from what would have been his last appearance on Conan, because Norm had expressed sympathy for his friends Rosanne and Louis C.K. when their careers were sent into a tailspin.
Do you have any links for that?
@@mirkomeyerhoff2700 I'm sure it's easily findable. Norm's Netflix show was soon to premiere and he was making the rounds promoting it.
@@mirkomeyerhoff2700no, they just make stuff up because of how they feel.
@@mirkomeyerhoff2700 Can't recall where I heard it, but I distinctly remember Norm coming to the defense of both Rosanne and Louie shortly after those news stories broke, which was very risky to his career. He was friends with both of them, so I think he felt a duty to stand by them in their time of need. Plus, neither one of them is Swedish-German.
I have never heard this and I'm thinking that might be because it is very unconfirmed, as they say
Andy got legit offended by Norm ragging on him. I would be elated to have Norm even know my name. LOL!
I miss Norm MacDonald
What a loss to the world!
I will pray for America. P
God Bless you.
I wish Andy would come around to loving the attention Norm MacDonald gave him through the years
Unfortunately, I just learned that Andy has committed himself body and soul to righteous jihad against the Great Satan that is America. While I do not personally agree with Andy Richter's choice to bring death to every man, woman and child in our great nation, I do respect his right to self-determination.
Andy didnt have the humility to be Norm's Adam Eget, who took part in some of the best comedic moments in history imo. Andy had that opportunity, but he thought he was Norm's equal and tried to outwit him. I mean, obviously Andys not gay. But a) who cares, and b) being insignant about it backfired. backfired.6
@@Katya_Lastochka Hear hear!
I still think Andy might be a homo, because countless hint that Norm MacDonald's digs against them were rooted in deep truths that Norm MacDonald otherwise played dumb to recognizing in them, which made the humor more pervasive and complex. Norm MacDonald was heavily influenced by many folks, including David Letterman, whose wont is to slip in inside jokes that the home audience does not know into much of his humor (the studio audience and/or the crew or guests might be in on David's extra jokes).
Do you like Tarkovsky? I have seen "Solaris" and "Andrei Rublev"
I was going to record a podcast on Norm MacDonald with a Norm MacDonald DEITY but canceled at the last minute (I had a hot date in Detroit). That happened to be the VERY DAY Norm MacDonald DIED! It was so spooky!
Props to andy for taking those jokes
Their relationship... It's a thorny, thorny issue.
In some alternate timeline these two hosted a talk show and it was so good that universe imploded.
I love how Conan is trying to shield himself from the second punchline of the prostitute joke 😂 he knows it’s coming
Andy can take anything except for Norm's swedish german jokes, that's kinda sad..
A Real Hero.
😉
Andy is genial, I like him. He’s part of the Conan show, which was my favorite late night show, so he’s alright by me. But a couple of his and his wife’s tweets bordered on trashing Norm… I was ready to jump ship on Andy. He redeemed himself by some respectful comments after Norm’s passing.
RIP Norm. While you were here, you were THE BEST.
Now that he's gone, he's still the best underground comic
What exactly did they say? I'm really surprised because Andy doesn't seem like the kind of guy, and it seemed like enjoyed Norm's company.
@@Massacretalitor Andy mentioned that some Norm fans would refer to him as “Swedish German“, and noted the origin of the phrase. He also said words to the effect of that it was lame to tease somebody by insinuating that they are gay, and furthermore, if he were gay, he would be out and proud. I don’t remember the wife’s contribution, except that she was pretty strident about it. I believe Norm responded in a very respectful and polite way.
@@LetsGoMetsGo33 It was lame. I love Norm but he pushed a joke that wasn't that funny in the first place, then went on and on.
@@Cyampagn The woke mob is funny. And tragic.
1:00 Andy fucking went and sealed his fate right there
Around 1:20 When Conan starts laughing .... what was that sound?
A sore throat
Andy played the third banana position like a pro
I wonder if Andy is where Adam got that great money making idea from?🧐🤔
Norm did much worse to Adam Egret, and they were close friends.. comedy!
I like the episodes of Conan that were apparently on Game Boy
Well look who found a nickel....
Thats 9001 dudes 😂
Richter was good and norm was a legend. Thanks to Richie for setting him up!
"A 450.05 on the Richter scale"
😂 ...how bad an earthquake rapes a city...or a new measure for the fraudulence of someone's closetedness 😂