Hey, remember that time Saint got trapped in the Vex Network and fought them for like, a century straight and killed so many of them they were able to custom-design a Vex Mind capable of draining his light, and he STILL broke that fucker open like a Terry's chocolate orange before succumbing to his wounds? ...I wonder what he could do to a Hive Goddess in his prime?
@@ExtrnalSorce2 He was Saint-14 before he entered the Infinite Forest to go after Osiris. He was still Saint-14 even when he crusaded against the Eliksni.
@@Techhunter_Talon yeah I don't think exo guardians need reboots, but ressurecting as a guardian counts as a reboot. Like, Saint was probably Saint-13 before his ghost found him
@@AW-mm7wi well not really. He caught snippets. He knows Crow for a few seconds at a time. But he wouldnt feel the same way about him, itd be like someone you barely know.
Ehh, the hive as a whole has caused genocides that are magnitudes above whatever we've done (including, but not limited to the 9 billion strike bosses we've killed to get a crappy roll on an okay gun)
For me it was confirmed that was savathun when he did that hand motion when referring to crow. We've known the dude for several years, he has never moved his arms that much.
tell me you never played season of the dawn without telling me 😂 but srsly dude osiris has always been real expressive with his hands gestures, the problem with this one was that it was so over the top hahaha ha like extra camp
For me it was how his eyes moved. They've rarely ever been that wide. They're usually narrow/pinpoint focused like he's staring at the sun. The wide eyes with malicious glee was unnerving and veeeery out of character
That "I'll hold you to it" sent shivers through my spine istg... even if we get Osiris back just how miserable will he be? I'm worried about him, and that's not even considering if we'll get him back... alive.. Also, some people have been disliking the fact that Savathun doesn't sound like an alien race and although i can understand that, i personally think that the Queen of Deception should have a smooth, nearly calming voice that would fit her manipulative personality
Her smooth, calming voice has got me acting up. Something so scarily silky and seductive is more dangerous than any plot she's concocted to destroy us.
Her voice is absolutely perfect, I was VERY pleasantly surprised. It plays into the character so damn well. I haven’t seen anyone complain yet so I’m glad they’re the minority
I actually really like savathun, her design and voice are good, and I like how she is actually making me think did she actually help us out a few times? Admittedly she prioritised her own goals and helping us was mainly a means to an end, but if our goals aligned she would be a very powerful ally
so given Savathun has been Osiris this whole time, and all eyes were on the Eliksni quarters when the gate was opened. Has anyone checked on the Crown of Sorrows? A Vex invasion is pretty good cover to swipe, replace, or mess with it without anyone noticing.
I would hope so, but as we know all the leaders are always chilling at their vendor locations and guardians have the attention span of a fly so I doubt it
Damn in that one moment where Savathun revealed herself, all of that doubt, sorrow and hurt Saint must have been feeling for months changed to horror and rage.
His immediate thought: First, I go tell Zavalla that anything Osiris did these past few months wasn't his doing, THEN I'm going to headbutt that crystal open till you give me my husband back
"Alright, alright, alright... Let's see what we've got... SAVATHUN! Bring a lie-detector test. Did I ever tell you about that time I managed to lie, cheat, and steal all the way up through a Hive line of royalty til I had dinner with that witch? She's got good table manners, but the rest of the date was even better. TRANSMAT FIRING!"
I love how weirdly... casual, and theatric Savathun is. The hand waggle, the etcetera etcetera, she's just so... confident. Certain. She's planned on presenting herself as an ally for a while, and it's amazing that for some reason *she thinks it will work.*
Probably because she thinks it already has, She however is the fool in this predicament. Do we even need to note how she is the reason Cayde-6 is dead and the fact our guardian literally killed a (basically) near innocent man who was manipulated out of anger, She's taking a big risk with appearing infront of our guardian in the very city we went on a vengeance hunt in.
@@droneant7602 She clearly doesn't if we know she got Cayde killed, It's a strange thing to have your own thoughts and a character you play as clash against eachother.
@@droneant7602 I get the feeling your applying us to Our guardian AND every other character, Our Guardian has quite literally no reason to trust her whatsoever, But during the other seasons with Savu-Siris we saw she had been using crow to gather dead ghosts for a very obvious purpose, There is literally no way she can trick our guardian cause WE are our guardian, And we know she's tricking us, So.
Before reading Wolftone: Ok Savathun, it's all kinda messed up but you do make good points. After reading Wolftone: I'mma make a gun out of your bones.
I think the one where Shaxx and Mithrax have that manly heart to heart is still such a good read, though. Then you have the multiple lore tabs about the eliksni who went to eat ramen that ended… horrifically. There’s a few other ones is all I’m sayin! But yeah, this one also hurts.
“The witch queen, sister of shapes, deepest of the hive coven, etcetera, etcetera” I love that Savathun mocks the titles that have been imposed on her. She has no interest in being considered hive royalty or above the guardians. She is a master manipulator and I am LOVING IT. Blunt force ala Oryx’s approach isn’t nearly as interesting.
Oryx is like the blunt force, shock-and-awe, reconnaissance arm of the hive. Savathun is for black-ops, wet works, and cover up like our Hidden forces. Xivu arath is pure strategy and enduring war strategy to finish their enemies of in a final war of attrition to the Hives overwhelming numbers.
@@torunsmok5890 That was my first thought when I realized how they really worked. But then I thought, 'Wait... what happens now that I've literally spent years wishing for them to stop bothering me? Did I accidentally wish a contrarian response into existence for all things Hive?" 😅
The iron banner armor this seasons brings up more of Lord Saladin's thoughts the past two seasons. Also one of the armor lore tabs indicates that Saladin knows the tune of Savathun like the rest of the city and Crow, but refuses to hum or sing it.
Nah, not quite. She was addressing /Crow/ in that statement, and the possession happened right after Sagira’s death at the start of Season of the Hunt, as shown in the ‘who is Savathun?’ cutscene. Saint’s known the real Osiris for far longer than she’s been possessing him.
Once we get Osiris back I just want him to go bananas on everyone, screaming and yelling, pointing fingers and telling us how dumb we are in his way ofcourse
I hope we get to kill Mara. She's literally the worst person ever. Some stupid princess that couldn't even keep Skolas from turning her Fallen against her thinks she can fight Savathuun? Or how about the time she suicided her fleet into Oryx, knowing they would die just so she could get his throne world (she failed btw). Or how she abandoned the Dreaming City for a year and did nothing when the pyramids showed up. Or how she worked with Savathuun, knowing that she killed hundreds of Awoken and was responsible for Uldren's death. Mara has to go. She's too incompetent and arrogant.
@@heraldofoblivion499 ok bub see how well shit goes without her commanding the awoken cause I can almost guarantee anyone who takes over will be worse and also if we kill her then we also have to kill petra cause she is Queens wrath and will kill us in return so sure lets just start basically a war with the awoken when we need all the allies we can get
@@heraldofoblivion499 Thats probably the worst possible thing we can do, against the pyramids? if we kill the awoken's queen? there goes all the support we get from the awoken, might even turn them against us as well.
@@TheKusa5 Mara isn't above doing shady shit and getting millions killed for her own ends. She's not a nice person, and makes more problems than she solves @Waifu Waffles Dude. Mara hasn't done anything for the awoken since Taken King. Petra had been running the reef for years by the time Forsaken rolled around. Those are not the only 2 candidates for the thrones either. Crow could take over, and from what we see of him he's mellowed out a lot since he died. The best case scenario is that we kill Mara and Petra keeps doing her job per usual. Or we kill Petra and Mara, but then Crow just takes command and go from there.
Considering how many Guardians are thirsting over "Mommy Savathun," her plan seems to be working. You know people are going to be upset, or still side with her when it turns out she's evil.
@@firey0748 don't you dare pull that star crossed lovers on me. I think we may have to end up killing Osiris in order to kill savathun this season, she is inhabiting his body remember. Which will suck. Hopefully I'm wrong
@@eu.stacio with that being case… saint might not be too happy with us even if he says how much he respects our decision to do so… it’s the Uldren and Mara situation all over again
He is probably already dead too. That was his actual body, and we heard what happened to it in the cutscene, and the fact that they didn't actually show it because it was probably graphic, suggests that Savathun is lying to us again and that Osiris is most likely dead.
Honestly, Saint may be the catalyst that kicks off The Witch Queen. I have a feeling that in a blind rage, he will end up unintentionally foiling whatever plan Mara has in place to kill Savathûn when the time comes.
Ya'll remember during one of the Overrides, when Osiris says, "the Light is key to victory." Man...that had a double meaning, both of which I knew when it was said and it's chilling when you think about it in that way, especially now that our suspicions were correct. So we know that Savuthun makes Hive ghosts that bring dead Hive back to life as Guardians and such, but we still have yet to see exactly HOW that's achieved. Would be really awesome if Sagira were still alive, but from what the lore says, she sacrificed herself to save Osiris. That fucking sucks.
I'm mostly mad that Sagira was just killed off screen and there was hardly any, if any at all, fanfare for her death. She's one of the few D2 characters I actually kind of liked, and she just kind of got wiped from the game. I just we get to meet her again, one way or another, to get some actual closure on her death. Even if she's a corrupted ghost we have to kill, but she gets to say her goodbyes or something.
Also, is anyone else just a LITTLE concerned that there is a portal in the H.E.L.M. that goes directly to Mara Sov's quarters and within those quarters lies some form of Savathun? ...and the portal works both ways.
@@justinworkman5482 Two? Only know of the one. The only other Vex Gate I recall is the one from Season of the Undying but that was used in the Black Garden to draw out the Undying Mind.
@@Techhunter_Talon Yea. The structure of my previous post is terrible. Indeed I am talking about the gate durring Undying. Not a terrible outcome story wise like building something like that can be, but twice now a Vex portal has had some bad times tied them, made in the last city. The only thing that was drawn out by that portal durring undying was my disappointment. Lol
I'm more concerned that the H.E.L.M. looks like a starship bridge and overlooks a hangar bay. Current theory is that Bungie is getting us use to coming to the H.E.L.M. for our seasonal content so that we're comfortable with it when we have to abandon earth and the Last City in whatever XK class event the Taken pull off.
Basically time to reexamine everything Osiris has ever said since season of the Hunt. Like week 2 of Presage: "The ignorance of my youth; the pain of change. Unproven faith wilted by logic."
That's if its any of us that actually going to be the ones to deal the killing blow that ends her. Given how much she pissed off the Darkness, I wouldn't be surprised if it sends one of the pyramid ships to just erase the Dreaming City to get her.
Still extremely intrigued by the fact that savathun says “o guardian mine” and also the worm god coiled around the traveler at the end of the cutscene, I feel like something very important is there, we just don’t have the pieces to put it all together yet
OKAY I wonder if even the Great Hunt was engineered to empower Riven's essence. And that it all comes back to Riven. Is Riven the Entity in the Darkness? If you go through the Glykon it is very Riven-y as different dead people whisper to you as you go through it, plus all the stuff with Katabisis, the Crown, etc. ALSO the Dead Man's Tale ornament has an ahamkara on it. ALSO ALSO there is a fucking Taken DRAGON EGG in Mara's chambers. Riven reborn?
God. Savathun is such a monster. This is just sadistic on an unspeakable level. I can’t imagine the guilt Osiris felt for what “he” did. I just hope Savathun keeps her word and returns Osiris.
I do have reason to believe that she will. If only because without her worm God she will be easy Pickins so she will need to throw him in a compromising position so that we can see them and she can get away.
@@Lightscribe225 Savathun knows everyone is hell bent on ending her once she releases Osiris so she isnt leaving without either an escape plan or leverage to keep everyone attacking her.
@@Lightscribe225 Right, that's quite the thing there. Lord Saladin, who was adamant against allying with the Cabal and even letting them be to sort out their own affairs on the agreement that we and them don't shoot at each other.
The Saint 14 and Osiris story line has turned into such an amazing and tragic romance story. Back when curse of osiris launched I had no idea that these 2 characters would be this fleshed out with so much character development. I hope the Saint eventually does gets his Phoenix back
Honestly I keep on getting this sinking feeling that Savathûn will indeed hold true to her word and return Osiris to us, but he most certainly won’t be alive
@Sam Crompton well, he was being puppeted by one of the most powerful entities aligned with the hive, slowly seeing her actions bring about the destruction to the last city of humanity and creating rifts in his closest relationships. I fuckin guarantee you that no one on God's green earth can come out of that nightmare scenario without serious lasting trauma.
Wouldn't it be the biggest surprise for savathun to actually give him back but tell us to rescue him instead? We rescue lost techeuns in that shattered realm so surely we'll have to do that for osiris too. It'll be just enough twist for savathun to have a giggle about (guardian risking their life to save osiris) and enough good wrap up for osiris to be alive
@@MikeJones-art-is-life142 The Vex were always there. Yeah, Savathun tricked Crota into letting them into Oryx's throne world, but they were always present beforehand. That incursion was probably just the first time the Vex were Taken and is where Quria came from.
Heres something I've been thinking about since that cutscene: Savathun talks about us not being a hero and her a villain, but simply paracausal beings. I think this is one of those moments where shes telling both a truth and lying to us. I think she's meant to play a role similar to the Devil, where he never tells the complete truth but when he does include something truthful, it's meant to be twisted and shaped in such a way so as to put us off the proverbial scent or lead us down a completely different road than one we were on. I think Savathuns comment about us being paracausal has some big lore and heavy Destiny-universe implications. Lore wise, our character has been the one guardian to do things against seemingly all odds. Oryx, Crota, Quria, Riven, etc., etc. Emphasizing off Quria, I think that Savathun is trying to get us to underestimate ourselves and thereby not realize our full potential. We clearly are capable of harnessing both darkness and light as tools (darkness is even manifested by ourselves without the need of a Pyramid equivalent to the Traveler's ghost's.) I think that part of her plan is that if she can get us to fall short in our confidence, abilities, connection to light and dark, then the only fear she has of ever being stopped will disappear. At least these are my thoughts so far, especially with the general plot thus far of Witch Queen taken into consideration.
Not disagreeing with in any way, I agree. Something to keep in mind though, before we got darkness powers, brother Vance discovered (and Mara already knew) when we die in trials, that two notes rang out. When the traveler was blocked by Gaul, only one did. The reason I bring this up, is the ghost is our connection to the traveler. What if it's more than that?
@@talinon1327 I remember hearing about that and I've wondered about that too. I know one piece of lore that REALLY stuck out to me when it happened was the mission event where the Traveler repaired itself before Beyond Light. Our ghost made the comment that the huge signature it was picking up was similar to a ghost's. And that is was coming from the Traveler. Maybe that has a connection to the two notes? One note denoting our guardians connection to each general paracausal power?
@@firdouglas2946 that's prob the true answer, but my original thought, was that the ghosts are small portions of the traveler, making the powers we have smaller portions of it, and why we needed to gather together to stop the pyramids from taking this solar system. If that is true, then the traveler and the pyramids are just conduits for the gardener and the winnower. Ways for them to contact those inside the game they've been playing for eons. With everything happening though, it's all up in the air to me lol love the lore and story of this game 😂
@@talinon1327 I think that is likely to be the case as well. But as you're hinting at, it's not the entire situation. I've kinda theorized that there had been multiple Travelers before but the Pyramids (The Winnower) are just more enticing as they speak to individual greeds and lusts, whereas the Traveler (The Gardner) entices people to be thoughtful of everything around them, thereby persuading them to be ultimately better than they would otherwise be in following the Winnower. Honestly, the direction they've started taking the story in and the level of care they've been putting into it has been amazing! I've really happy that the lore is getting where we can genuinely theorize some pretty deep stuff and have the strong possibility of it being answered or touched on. Directly or Indirectly.
@@firdouglas2946 ok savathun might be saying saying is all true since we think all she says is lies a way to minipulate our thoughts but if you put a little truth in that endles pool of lies then its trully a gamble to get real information from her
On that "Trust me." line, read the lore tab on the new Trials Linear Fusion. "Trust me." Is said to Reed-7 about Shayura, about the events of the match detailed in last season's Trials gear. Things are getting interesting, certainly.
Me and my lore buddy spent on day one An hour or so reading all the new lore, our favorite was the one about how “Iron Lord Saladin Forge…” and his anger toward who ducked over his fellow gaurdians. I need a cutscene with Saladin and Saint fucking DESTROYING SOME HIVE
one of my favorite lore tabs of this season the the tab from the Chrysura Melo, especially the last five paragraphs and what it could mean for our favorite shouty man
I've been thinking Savathun actually let us kill Quaria to lessen her connections to the Darkness. It seems see's wanting to break free from the control a paracasual entity (removing her worm to no longer be a pawn of the Dark, the powers in Witch Queen (no spoilers), etc.). I also believe this is the reason Xivu's hunting her
I kind of agree with savathûn. Her cutscene did make a lot of sense but ”not agreeing with her methods” is far from the truth. She is the reason cayde died. I do not understand why mara sided with her. Mara loves her brother and he would still remember her if it wasn’t for savathûn. He wouldn’t be corrupted. Granted, he would be a dick but he would still be him. Cayde would be alive. Have people forgotten cayde? Did he die for nothing?
Mara is doing what she is doing because she's entirely self-serving. This is the same woman who expects people to just blindly follow her and not question her actions or motives, and then gets violently angry if people call her out on just being absentee. It's entirely within her purview to strike a deal with Savathun if it furthers her own plans, regardless of what may happen.
Mara emotionally abused and manipulated her brother while he was alive. She may have “loved” him in some form, but that’s because he was loyal. she wasn’t a stellar sister.
She already said if we remove her worm then it will make Savathun vulnerable so she's just taking another huge risk but she knows Savathun will betray us eventually and I wouldn't say she sided with her they only came to an agreement
I still can't get over it. For MONTHS, if not over a YEAR, the prevailing theory has been that Osiris was _brainwashed_ by Savathûn via her song, and that she might be influencing him remotely. Nobody thought he was literally POSSESSED.
Yeah, that seems like it was a mistake. I don't know if they were Spiders, or just Ghosts collected from various places, but he sent Crow to gather them and we haven't encountered Hive Ghosts yet.
Honestly, if we get to rescue Osiris, the reunion between him and Saint is 100% gonna make me cry. But if we don’t get to rescue him, I will die inside for Saint. 😭
I like how she everything good thing she told us she did in that cutscene was her fault at the origin it was just a domino effect -she said she helped redeem uldren but in reality she and riven are the one who made him insane and made him do these thing in the first place -she protected zavala from ciatal ambitions: she is the one who made the fall of the cabal home world possible and the reason ciatal made her way into our solar system in the first place -
We truly need more of this. After all, Destiny is such a grimdark setting. Humanity is on the brink of extinction and has no power of their own to save themselves from the almost daily alien invasions and eldritch monsters and machines seeking to wipe us out for reasons most don't understand. We rely on some wounded machine God that embodies a cosmic force, one that has abandoned other civilizations in the past, to bring back a select few of our dead to defend us and hopefully they don't go insane or get corrupted by the dark forces opposing us.
Agree. Sprinkled-in comedic relief is fine, but Destiny's universe has always been grimdark and the narrative works best when kept that way imo. Goofy armor and bad jokes aside, Destiny is supposed to always have an overarching feeling of loss, dread, and anxiety which drives the story
That reading of the lore card for the bow...I'm speechless. This is why you're lore daddy. The way you bring life into just reading a bit of lore, it's like I'm watching each characters mannerisms, all through just you reading. Amazing.
Man where is Eris when we need her? So many of these hive threats could so easily be avoided if she was around. Sadly she only shows up when the shit has already hit the fan with the hive (for story reasons obviously)...
@@arcanetraveller6304 best comment yet haha I love that image you painted for us, just imagining eris and Elsie rolling a snowman while drifter throws snowballs at them
Eris isn’t all that noble. She liked the darkness if you recall, was also eager to communicate with it and in the altered timeline takes Savathun’s place basically.
I like how this past year has been marked with instance after instance of us having to accept and work with allies that used to be our worst enemies, yet the moment we encounter Savathun, an entity that doesn't work for the Darkness and is rather opposed to the Black Fleet, we immediately throw all of that out the window and don't even consider the possibility that she could at least be of some use. Saladin doesn't seem so racist now, does he?
"my sister hunts me on behalf of another". This implies that xivu aurath is hunting savathun not only because of sword logic, but also because someone has xivu doing it for them. Also love how savathun goes "etcetera etcetera" when going through her title like she's recited it dozens of times before like she's tired of it
we already know why xivu arath is hunting savathun. Because savathun interfered with our communication with the darkness, the darkness got pissed off at her so it told all of it's forces to kill her.
@@yaz5300 It's because, like she says, Savathun wants to be free. Free of the pack with worm gods, and the deep/darkness. She's tried to trick her worm before, failing at it.
@@Hallu91 I feel like her saying “another” means it’s a single person not the worm gods or the darkness. I feel like if it was just the darkness she would have said so. Also I believe it might be Calus.
I’m pretty bloody worried on how Savathûn is going to manipulate us this Season, I mean, we’ve only talked with her once, and She’s already managed to convince half the community that she’s an ally
She MIGHT be an ally against the Darkness while it is a common enemy. But, the moment the Darkness is defeated, she WILL turn against us. There are three types of allies: 1) The kind you can trust: I think the Mithrax is a good example of this 2) The kind you trust for the most part, but there are reasons you don't fully trust: I think Caiatl and Mara fall in this category 3) The kind you don't trust at all, so you make sure to hold your cards close to your chest and use the alliance to further your own goals while preparing for when the alliance ends. If there is an alliance with Savathun, this would be the kind we have. BUT, if we do this, we better be careful because it isn't an issue of playing with fire, it is playing with a nuke.
Yeah, the problem with doing a “manipulative character” storyline is that most of the community isn’t going to realize she’s lying through her teeth at us
@@fort809 That’s what makes it great. I love that she isn’t just a clear and plain villain, she’s written with this incredible antagonist charisma that can make you forget for a second that she actually is a big enemy that has been going against us for literal years.
@@fort809 In the end, it doesn't matter if we do believe her or not. Even though the saying is 'Guardians make their own fate', that is a blatant lie in reality. Everything we do is because someone told us to do it. As a Guardian, we have little to no freedom in what we do in the story. At best, we act as observes to the game's events.
I like that implication in the Boots of the Assembler lore that Osiris underneath his ancient wisdom and stoicism does have a rather romantic side, really humanizes him in a way i just didn't expect
Wait, but that lore is specifically about how that ISN'T Osiris, it's Savathun wearing his skin... It's arguably the literal opposite of humanizing. Wut.
@@jaradsibon6047 "We could fly out to the Alps," Saint suggested. "Or walk around the ruins of Prague. Like we used to." This part specifically, before Savathûn it would seem that Osiris and Saint had a surprisingly warm and romantic relationship, which i didn't expect even from CoO or Dawn era Osiris
@@joshuavidrine889 I was expecting her to instruct us in the new Dark subclass by teaching us Hive magic, but they've put that aside for the Light sub reworks. I do still expect Eris to become involved with this season and a bigger role beside Ikora during Witch Queen's campaign.
What do you hear Osiris? "The ignorance of my youth, unproven faith wilted by logic" Such a different context now. I really want to know exactly what Savathun heard in the glyckon.
The Books of Sorrow claim that upon fleeing from their throne, Savathun (then Sathona), stole the skin of her father's dead Worm god. As the three Hive Gods scoured the oceans for answers on how to reclaim their throne - the dead Worm whispered to Savathun, telling them to dive into the core of their own planet. There, they found the Worm Gods. The Worms offered great, unimaginable power, capable of achieving immortality - at the cost of always being fed, and always enacting their nature: Xivu Arath must always be strong, Savathun must always be cunning, and Oryx must always try to understand the world's secrets. They were locked in a cycle that would never end - doomed to wage war, kill and trick, destroying any civilization they could ever come across, never being able to consider peace for as long as they could be called "The Hive", all to retain their power - or die. "The ignorance of my youth, unproven faith wilted by logic."
It's mad well the writing is! I've felt so bad for Saint this whole time because of how he must have been feeling under the impression that there was a gap widening between him and osiris up until now. Also I'm curious about what role the drifter will have from now.
I was so proud of myself when I finished that mission to find I’ve been right about Osiris since Crow started whistling the song. But I didn’t even think that it was Osiris’ body. I just imagined her trapping him and assuming his shape not actually TAKING it. The poor man, Saint is gonna go nuts of Savathun if he’s given the chance.
Oh poor Saint and Osiris. I always thought Osiris was a bit stuck up, but he doesn't deserve this. And Saint, well savathoon will fear him like the fallen once did.
I'm really glad they're delving into what's been happening to Osiris. I know for a while the community was clowning on Osiris being sus all the time etc and so forth. But this really is a tragic series of events and I honestly feel really bad for Osiris in general. It's going to be a good long while until we are able to rescue him as well. I'm holding out hope for Saint to get his revenge, but something tells me this threat has a lot more up her sleeve than what we're capable of dealing with.
I think the most important thing with Savathun is something I learnt from a distant relative who was a diplomat in the 50s. To paraphrase: "Never ask if [Savathun] is lying. Instead as 'why did [she] say that?" It's pointless to try and discern truth from lies when even *questionining* gives her more power. Instead, it's more useful to ask 'what does she gain by my believing this statement'.
Nah, your consciousness is the canon persona of your Guardian. It's something Bungie put forth awhile back that how players do things is actually how the Guardians that go out on strikes and raids act.
Just realized that we were given a clue to Osiris being Savathun during Chosen, through Presage, with this dialogue when conversing with Caitl on the voices they heard: "The ignorance of my youth; the pain of change. Unproven faith wilted by logic."
Thank you Byf, I was starting to fall for Savathûn and you just reminded me exactly who she is. And since I take Destiny very seriously it has an immense personal meaning. Thank you very much.
well multiple thinks can happen 1st it wasnt Osiris real body but more of a Copy 2nd osiris will be a crystal 3rd osiris will be back but dead 4th osiris will be heavily mentally broken but alive 5th Osiris will become like Eris Morn with those Eyes and all 6th he is alive obviously he wont be revived(Necromancy) as it is against the sword logic "weak deserve to be dead" whatever it is i highly doubt osiris will return healthy plus you forget the new dlc called "witchqueen" where you kill her and they say "her biggest lie" so i think we wont get him bacl healthy at all high chance hs is dead
Another weapon lore tab that I really enjoy this season is Chrysura Melo's : Savathun thinks back on what she did as Osiris, and even gives valuable insight on how powerful her song is. So powerful it totally pacified Shaxx when he sensed her presence in the Ahamkara skull. So uuh yeah, scary moth.
My favorite new lore tab so far this season is on the Iron Banner weapon Forge's Pledge. We know SAINT is pissed, but there's an even older Titan, one who's seen just as much battle and may know more on loss, and you REALLY don't want to be on his bad side. And Savathun is definitely on his bad side...
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 Riven nearby: Your wish is now granted, my Queen. Good luck..... A few seconds later..... Saladin appears rights in front of Savathun's statue. Saladin: '....and if I was ever in front of that hag of a witch, I would....' *notices where he is. Looks to the statue* 'Huh, guess I'll show what I would do then.' Saladin smiles.
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 Riven nearby: Your wish is now granted, my Queen. Good luck..... A few seconds later..... Saladin appears rights in front of Savathun's statue. Saladin: '....and if I was ever in front of that hag of a witch, I would....' *notices where he is. Looks to the statue* 'Huh, guess I'll show what I would do then.' Saladin smiles.
Hey Byf! I don’t know you’ve already done this, but I would love to see a video on Throne Worlds before the Witch Queen release! One thing that still bugs me about the Witch Queen reveal is how they mention that powerful ‘entities’ can create Throne Worlds, not just Hive. Obviously, there was one scorn baron with a Throne World in Forsaken, but he was already involved with Hive magic. I guess my main question is, if any kind of entity can have a Throne World as long as their powerful enough, wouldn’t we see more of them? Hell, shouldn’t we, the main guardian, have our own Throne World? We’ve killed countless gods! Now, I’m not that well versed in Destiny lore. So I’d love a video where you do a deep dive into the lore of Throne Worlds! Thanks Byf, and can’t wait to see your vids leading up to Witch Queen and Dynasty!
Savathun: "oh, Guardian mine"
Nope, nope, shut up, nope
My thoughts exactly
"O Guardian mine...."
Ohno
Damn she really caught me with that one, ya know maybe savathun isnt really that bad…
Guardians who don't even know the lore: "Yes mommy Savathun."
@@Flamme-Sanabi Me, who knows the lore: "YES please."
Hey, remember that time Saint got trapped in the Vex Network and fought them for like, a century straight and killed so many of them they were able to custom-design a Vex Mind capable of draining his light, and he STILL broke that fucker open like a Terry's chocolate orange before succumbing to his wounds?
...I wonder what he could do to a Hive Goddess in his prime?
Considering Guardians don’t really age, wouldn’t he still be on his prime? Especially when we got him out during that fighting?
@@ExtrnalSorce2 mentally, guardians age, so it took a toll on him.
@@noahhoan true, and since he’s an exo who knows what number he was when he started?
@@ExtrnalSorce2 He was Saint-14 before he entered the Infinite Forest to go after Osiris. He was still Saint-14 even when he crusaded against the Eliksni.
@@Techhunter_Talon yeah I don't think exo guardians need reboots, but ressurecting as a guardian counts as a reboot. Like, Saint was probably Saint-13 before his ghost found him
Another sad thing is Crow never met the REAL Osiris, so when he comes back, it’ll be like they never knew each other.
osiris saw all that sav was doing so osiris will know
Osiris definitely knows about Crow.
Implying Osiris is gonna come back alive lmao
the lore tab indicates that osiris has vague recolections of what happened, perhaps he remember more than what the lore indicates
@@AW-mm7wi well not really. He caught snippets. He knows Crow for a few seconds at a time. But he wouldnt feel the same way about him, itd be like someone you barely know.
"We are bargaining with a being who has made genocide her calling card."
*Guardian coughs*
Ehh, the hive as a whole has caused genocides that are magnitudes above whatever we've done (including, but not limited to the 9 billion strike bosses we've killed to get a crappy roll on an okay gun)
Good times.
maybe if my guns stopped rolling grave robber I wouldnt be digging graves to begin with.
@@brattysubenthusiast that is by far the funniest comment I've seen on here bruh😂😂
"Excuse me!? ONE FUCKING GUARDIAN.....
For me it was confirmed that was savathun when he did that hand motion when referring to crow.
We've known the dude for several years, he has never moved his arms that much.
*_Y-poses in season of the Dawn_*
tell me you never played season of the dawn without telling me 😂
but srsly dude osiris has always been real expressive with his hands gestures, the problem with this one was that it was so over the top hahaha ha like extra camp
Oh yeah he did. Still the closest the dude has been to going full on jazz hands
For me it was how his eyes moved. They've rarely ever been that wide. They're usually narrow/pinpoint focused like he's staring at the sun. The wide eyes with malicious glee was unnerving and veeeery out of character
No one has
That lore tab of Saint trying to reconnect with Osiris was so gut-wrenching.
what happened?
@@BREAKocean It's in the video
Fr
That "I'll hold you to it" sent shivers through my spine istg... even if we get Osiris back just how miserable will he be? I'm worried about him, and that's not even considering if we'll get him back... alive..
Also, some people have been disliking the fact that Savathun doesn't sound like an alien race and although i can understand that, i personally think that the Queen of Deception should have a smooth, nearly calming voice that would fit her manipulative personality
Her smooth, calming voice has got me acting up. Something so scarily silky and seductive is more dangerous than any plot she's concocted to destroy us.
@@joshuavidrine889 IKR?!
Her voice is absolutely perfect, I was VERY pleasantly surprised. It plays into the character so damn well. I haven’t seen anyone complain yet so I’m glad they’re the minority
@@Subsistence69 Yeah, i've seen a number of people both on reddit and on youtube but i'm glad it's not more widespread
I actually really like savathun, her design and voice are good, and I like how she is actually making me think did she actually help us out a few times? Admittedly she prioritised her own goals and helping us was mainly a means to an end, but if our goals aligned she would be a very powerful ally
Savathun: “I am the literal god of decepti-“
Drifter: “Not around here, sister.”
Transmat firing!
Ooooo savathun on the field
Apparently, those folks haven't met any real politicians.
Politicians are the acme and pentacle of lies and deception.
@@xgel Hive God, bring a sword
@@perihelion7798 Lakshmi 2
so given Savathun has been Osiris this whole time, and all eyes were on the Eliksni quarters when the gate was opened. Has anyone checked on the Crown of Sorrows? A Vex invasion is pretty good cover to swipe, replace, or mess with it without anyone noticing.
Very true
I would hope so, but as we know all the leaders are always chilling at their vendor locations and guardians have the attention span of a fly so I doubt it
@@BrandonKleeman true lol everyone is going to surprise pikachu if it turns out to be missing
I don't think the Crown actually has anything to do with Witch Queen. I think Savathûn just didn't want it destroyed.
His last video i memtioned the crown and how i might be used with the ghost
Damn in that one moment where Savathun revealed herself, all of that doubt, sorrow and hurt Saint must have been feeling for months changed to horror and rage.
His immediate thought: First, I go tell Zavalla that anything Osiris did these past few months wasn't his doing, THEN I'm going to headbutt that crystal open till you give me my husband back
Our only hope is for Drifter to pull his biggest scam yet on Savathun
"Alright, alright, alright... Let's see what we've got... SAVATHUN! Bring a lie-detector test. Did I ever tell you about that time I managed to lie, cheat, and steal all the way up through a Hive line of royalty til I had dinner with that witch? She's got good table manners, but the rest of the date was even better. TRANSMAT FIRING!"
I still wanna know when will the choice we made in the Season of the drifter do anything to the story
@@joshuavidrine889 honestly that’s something I could actually see him doing
@@joshuavidrine889 I could here his voice saying those words and I am dying
@@joshuavidrine889 I just wanna hear him actually say this!
I love how weirdly... casual, and theatric Savathun is. The hand waggle, the etcetera etcetera, she's just so... confident. Certain. She's planned on presenting herself as an ally for a while, and it's amazing that for some reason *she thinks it will work.*
Probably because she thinks it already has, She however is the fool in this predicament.
Do we even need to note how she is the reason Cayde-6 is dead and the fact our guardian literally killed a (basically) near innocent man who was manipulated out of anger, She's taking a big risk with appearing infront of our guardian in the very city we went on a vengeance hunt in.
@@droneant7602 She clearly doesn't if we know she got Cayde killed, It's a strange thing to have your own thoughts and a character you play as clash against eachother.
@@droneant7602 I get the feeling your applying us to Our guardian AND every other character, Our Guardian has quite literally no reason to trust her whatsoever, But during the other seasons with Savu-Siris we saw she had been using crow to gather dead ghosts for a very obvious purpose, There is literally no way she can trick our guardian cause WE are our guardian, And we know she's tricking us, So.
I don't think she actually believes we're fooled. She obviously has other cards she hasn't played yet. This os just her bluff
Before reading Wolftone: Ok Savathun, it's all kinda messed up but you do make good points.
After reading Wolftone: I'mma make a gun out of your bones.
i am gona use a vex mind to delete her out of existence she doesn’t even deserve the gun treatment
All titans get ready to yeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
…….hold on I’ll call Eris, we are turning her into a gun when her corpse is still warm
Imma delete her using TRUTH.
@@vancarson440 wait til gjallarhorn is available
“My hobbies include gaslighting people until they like, you know go absolutely insane and become self conscious”-Savathuns Tinder profile
And selling her bath water for 5,000 glimmer.
@@RohanSpartin id buy
...welp. That settles it. Wolftone Draw is the most heart-rending lore tab of the year, bar none, everything else can go home, that's it, we're done.
I think the one where Shaxx and Mithrax have that manly heart to heart is still such a good read, though. Then you have the multiple lore tabs about the eliksni who went to eat ramen that ended… horrifically. There’s a few other ones is all I’m sayin! But yeah, this one also hurts.
For now....
I dunno. The eliksni lullaby still hits hard.
Yeah, this has to be one of the worst experiences one can have in the destiny universe. I would rather be erased from time
Don’t forget about the Brass Attacks side arm lore where Banshee forgot it was a present from him to Cayde
Edit: (“B-44.4.C-6”)
“The witch queen, sister of shapes, deepest of the hive coven, etcetera, etcetera” I love that Savathun mocks the titles that have been imposed on her. She has no interest in being considered hive royalty or above the guardians. She is a master manipulator and I am LOVING IT.
Blunt force ala Oryx’s approach isn’t nearly as interesting.
It really does give her extra character the smug ego of it all
Oryx is like the blunt force, shock-and-awe, reconnaissance arm of the hive. Savathun is for black-ops, wet works, and cover up like our Hidden forces.
Xivu arath is pure strategy and enduring war strategy to finish their enemies of in a final war of attrition to the Hives overwhelming numbers.
"Oh Guardian mine"
*(has been actively wishing for Ahamkara to leave me alone since D1)*
See that's your mistake... You're WISHING it :P
@@torunsmok5890 That was my first thought when I realized how they really worked. But then I thought, 'Wait... what happens now that I've literally spent years wishing for them to stop bothering me? Did I accidentally wish a contrarian response into existence for all things Hive?" 😅
@@Blindluck92 so what I'm hearing is YOU'RE the reason we're fighting Savathun????
@@sriramramesh5318 Shhhhh
@@Blindluck92 Aight, we're gonna put the boots to you, medium style.
The iron banner armor this seasons brings up more of Lord Saladin's thoughts the past two seasons. Also one of the armor lore tabs indicates that Saladin knows the tune of Savathun like the rest of the city and Crow, but refuses to hum or sing it.
Saladin is too old for her shit.
Unless its its siva saladman doesn't care
Savathun is the embodiment of Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss.
I hate how accurate this is.
oh my god ur right
LOL
Her daily routine is just ✨Gaslight the Guardians, Gatekeep the Pyramids, Girlboss your way to Light powers✨
@@artemiss4432 KSKSKSKSKSKSKS STOP PLS bc its so accurate !!
“I have been Osiris for as long as you have known him.”
Crow: fuck
Saint: FUCK
Nah, not quite. She was addressing /Crow/ in that statement, and the possession happened right after Sagira’s death at the start of Season of the Hunt, as shown in the ‘who is Savathun?’ cutscene.
Saint’s known the real Osiris for far longer than she’s been possessing him.
@@InfernaFiresword but she made saint think that Osiris didn’t love him anymore which is just as bad
Once we get Osiris back I just want him to go bananas on everyone, screaming and yelling, pointing fingers and telling us how dumb we are in his way ofcourse
I hope we get to kill Mara. She's literally the worst person ever. Some stupid princess that couldn't even keep Skolas from turning her Fallen against her thinks she can fight Savathuun? Or how about the time she suicided her fleet into Oryx, knowing they would die just so she could get his throne world (she failed btw). Or how she abandoned the Dreaming City for a year and did nothing when the pyramids showed up. Or how she worked with Savathuun, knowing that she killed hundreds of Awoken and was responsible for Uldren's death.
Mara has to go. She's too incompetent and arrogant.
@@heraldofoblivion499 ok bub see how well shit goes without her commanding the awoken cause I can almost guarantee anyone who takes over will be worse and also if we kill her then we also have to kill petra cause she is Queens wrath and will kill us in return so sure lets just start basically a war with the awoken when we need all the allies we can get
@@heraldofoblivion499 Thats probably the worst possible thing we can do, against the pyramids? if we kill the awoken's queen? there goes all the support we get from the awoken, might even turn them against us as well.
@@TheKusa5
Mara isn't above doing shady shit and getting millions killed for her own ends. She's not a nice person, and makes more problems than she solves
@Waifu Waffles
Dude. Mara hasn't done anything for the awoken since Taken King. Petra had been running the reef for years by the time Forsaken rolled around. Those are not the only 2 candidates for the thrones either. Crow could take over, and from what we see of him he's mellowed out a lot since he died.
The best case scenario is that we kill Mara and Petra keeps doing her job per usual. Or we kill Petra and Mara, but then Crow just takes command and go from there.
@@heraldofoblivion499 ok dude we get it you hate women.
Considering how many Guardians are thirsting over "Mommy Savathun," her plan seems to be working. You know people are going to be upset, or still side with her when it turns out she's evil.
I’ve sided with her since I first learned of the books of sorrow, and shall continue to do so
The weak pick only one side.
Well some people will still side with evil because you gotta admit, the villains can be cool af.
Bro she’s still got that Savathussy. *And we kept the body*
@@Ponch126 STOP 💀
I have this horrible feeling that we won’t get Osiris back alive. Poor, poor Saint 😭
*Don’t you do this to us, Bungie…*
What if it not Osiris we lose? What if by the time we get Osiris it’s saint that we lose in efforts to regain the warlock?
@@firey0748 NOOOO NO NO NO NO
JUST NOOOOOOO
@@firey0748 don't you dare pull that star crossed lovers on me. I think we may have to end up killing Osiris in order to kill savathun this season, she is inhabiting his body remember. Which will suck. Hopefully I'm wrong
@@eu.stacio with that being case… saint might not be too happy with us even if he says how much he respects our decision to do so… it’s the Uldren and Mara situation all over again
He is probably already dead too. That was his actual body, and we heard what happened to it in the cutscene, and the fact that they didn't actually show it because it was probably graphic, suggests that Savathun is lying to us again and that Osiris is most likely dead.
Savy: "If you believe anything I tell you, believe this."
Me: No, I don't think I will.
Lol Savy
Honestly, Saint may be the catalyst that kicks off The Witch Queen. I have a feeling that in a blind rage, he will end up unintentionally foiling whatever plan Mara has in place to kill Savathûn when the time comes.
“No, I’M killing Savathûn”
Spoiler. Savathun willcsacrifice herself then we will be tricked into giving her her memories back once she has the light
Saint and Mara, Petra and Crow. Each pair with significant trust issues.
What, like infinity war with Starlord?
@@ExtrnalSorce2 Exactly
Ya'll remember during one of the Overrides, when Osiris says, "the Light is key to victory."
Man...that had a double meaning, both of which I knew when it was said and it's chilling when you think about it in that way, especially now that our suspicions were correct. So we know that Savuthun makes Hive ghosts that bring dead Hive back to life as Guardians and such, but we still have yet to see exactly HOW that's achieved.
Would be really awesome if Sagira were still alive, but from what the lore says, she sacrificed herself to save Osiris. That fucking sucks.
I'm mostly mad that Sagira was just killed off screen and there was hardly any, if any at all, fanfare for her death. She's one of the few D2 characters I actually kind of liked, and she just kind of got wiped from the game.
I just we get to meet her again, one way or another, to get some actual closure on her death. Even if she's a corrupted ghost we have to kill, but she gets to say her goodbyes or something.
Also, is anyone else just a LITTLE concerned that there is a portal in the H.E.L.M. that goes directly to Mara Sov's quarters and within those quarters lies some form of Savathun? ...and the portal works both ways.
Shes been IN the city for months and we had, count em, two Vex gates open within the Last Cities walls.
We arnt that smart when it comes to portals.
@@justinworkman5482 Haha, this is true.
@@justinworkman5482 Two? Only know of the one. The only other Vex Gate I recall is the one from Season of the Undying but that was used in the Black Garden to draw out the Undying Mind.
@@Techhunter_Talon Yea. The structure of my previous post is terrible. Indeed I am talking about the gate durring Undying. Not a terrible outcome story wise like building something like that can be, but twice now a Vex portal has had some bad times tied them, made in the last city.
The only thing that was drawn out by that portal durring undying was my disappointment. Lol
I'm more concerned that the H.E.L.M. looks like a starship bridge and overlooks a hangar bay. Current theory is that Bungie is getting us use to coming to the H.E.L.M. for our seasonal content so that we're comfortable with it when we have to abandon earth and the Last City in whatever XK class event the Taken pull off.
Basically time to reexamine everything Osiris has ever said since season of the Hunt.
Like week 2 of Presage: "The ignorance of my youth; the pain of change. Unproven faith wilted by logic."
OMG YES
When Savathun is properly revealed, it’s gonna be a relay race between Ikora, Saint and us to tear her into shreds
I’m betting the 10 Glimmer that Ghost won from Cayde that Saint’s gonna win
Read the loretab for Forge's Pledge, the new Iron Banner pulse rifle. Saladin will be a part of that race, no doubt.
Dont forget Eris, Xivu arath, Mara, Caitl, Reed 7, and some more people
I’m gonna win. I WILL win.
That's if its any of us that actually going to be the ones to deal the killing blow that ends her. Given how much she pissed off the Darkness, I wouldn't be surprised if it sends one of the pyramid ships to just erase the Dreaming City to get her.
Still extremely intrigued by the fact that savathun says “o guardian mine” and also the worm god coiled around the traveler at the end of the cutscene, I feel like something very important is there, we just don’t have the pieces to put it all together yet
OKAY I wonder if even the Great Hunt was engineered to empower Riven's essence. And that it all comes back to Riven. Is Riven the Entity in the Darkness? If you go through the Glykon it is very Riven-y as different dead people whisper to you as you go through it, plus all the stuff with Katabisis, the Crown, etc. ALSO the Dead Man's Tale ornament has an ahamkara on it. ALSO ALSO there is a fucking Taken DRAGON EGG in Mara's chambers. Riven reborn?
God. Savathun is such a monster. This is just sadistic on an unspeakable level. I can’t imagine the guilt Osiris felt for what “he” did.
I just hope Savathun keeps her word and returns Osiris.
Wishful thinking for the Hive Goddess of Cunning and Lies to keep her word, but lets hope :(
I do have reason to believe that she will. If only because without her worm God she will be easy Pickins so she will need to throw him in a compromising position so that we can see them and she can get away.
@@Lightscribe225 Savathun knows everyone is hell bent on ending her once she releases Osiris so she isnt leaving without either an escape plan or leverage to keep everyone attacking her.
@@Lightscribe225 Right, that's quite the thing there. Lord Saladin, who was adamant against allying with the Cabal and even letting them be to sort out their own affairs on the agreement that we and them don't shoot at each other.
Well she is a god so
The Saint 14 and Osiris story line has turned into such an amazing and tragic romance story. Back when curse of osiris launched I had no idea that these 2 characters would be this fleshed out with so much character development. I hope the Saint eventually does gets his Phoenix back
Honestly I keep on getting this sinking feeling that Savathûn will indeed hold true to her word and return Osiris to us, but he most certainly won’t be alive
She promises to return him safely
Wierd choice of words to return him dead
@@syli3694
I hope she also stays true to the “safely” part but I honestly doubt it 😔
@Sam Crompton
Oof yeah that might be it
@Sam Crompton well, he was being puppeted by one of the most powerful entities aligned with the hive, slowly seeing her actions bring about the destruction to the last city of humanity and creating rifts in his closest relationships. I fuckin guarantee you that no one on God's green earth can come out of that nightmare scenario without serious lasting trauma.
Wouldn't it be the biggest surprise for savathun to actually give him back but tell us to rescue him instead? We rescue lost techeuns in that shattered realm so surely we'll have to do that for osiris too. It'll be just enough twist for savathun to have a giggle about (guardian risking their life to save osiris) and enough good wrap up for osiris to be alive
What I took most from this cutscene:
Saint-14 to Savathun: Give me my bird husband back you witch!
I agree
😵💫 I know right? Didn’t see that one coming
Haunting that Savathun, Osiris and The Exo Stranger all call ghosts/Guardians "Little Light."
I think it's the vex word for it.
Maybe but savathun isn’t related to the vex in the sense Elsie and Osiris are
Ghost: "Im not that small >:("
I thought Savathun was the initial reason the Vex came into our universe because she tricked Oryx and let them into his throne world
@@MikeJones-art-is-life142 The Vex were always there. Yeah, Savathun tricked Crota into letting them into Oryx's throne world, but they were always present beforehand. That incursion was probably just the first time the Vex were Taken and is where Quria came from.
"When Saint gets his hands on Savathun", huh?
All I heard in my head as Byf said that was:"Rip and tear! Until it is done!"
*E1M1 starts playing*
The licensing would be expensive.
Heres something I've been thinking about since that cutscene: Savathun talks about us not being a hero and her a villain, but simply paracausal beings. I think this is one of those moments where shes telling both a truth and lying to us. I think she's meant to play a role similar to the Devil, where he never tells the complete truth but when he does include something truthful, it's meant to be twisted and shaped in such a way so as to put us off the proverbial scent or lead us down a completely different road than one we were on.
I think Savathuns comment about us being paracausal has some big lore and heavy Destiny-universe implications. Lore wise, our character has been the one guardian to do things against seemingly all odds. Oryx, Crota, Quria, Riven, etc., etc. Emphasizing off Quria, I think that Savathun is trying to get us to underestimate ourselves and thereby not realize our full potential. We clearly are capable of harnessing both darkness and light as tools (darkness is even manifested by ourselves without the need of a Pyramid equivalent to the Traveler's ghost's.) I think that part of her plan is that if she can get us to fall short in our confidence, abilities, connection to light and dark, then the only fear she has of ever being stopped will disappear.
At least these are my thoughts so far, especially with the general plot thus far of Witch Queen taken into consideration.
Not disagreeing with in any way, I agree. Something to keep in mind though, before we got darkness powers, brother Vance discovered (and Mara already knew) when we die in trials, that two notes rang out. When the traveler was blocked by Gaul, only one did. The reason I bring this up, is the ghost is our connection to the traveler. What if it's more than that?
@@talinon1327 I remember hearing about that and I've wondered about that too. I know one piece of lore that REALLY stuck out to me when it happened was the mission event where the Traveler repaired itself before Beyond Light. Our ghost made the comment that the huge signature it was picking up was similar to a ghost's. And that is was coming from the Traveler. Maybe that has a connection to the two notes? One note denoting our guardians connection to each general paracausal power?
@@firdouglas2946 that's prob the true answer, but my original thought, was that the ghosts are small portions of the traveler, making the powers we have smaller portions of it, and why we needed to gather together to stop the pyramids from taking this solar system. If that is true, then the traveler and the pyramids are just conduits for the gardener and the winnower. Ways for them to contact those inside the game they've been playing for eons. With everything happening though, it's all up in the air to me lol love the lore and story of this game 😂
@@talinon1327 I think that is likely to be the case as well. But as you're hinting at, it's not the entire situation. I've kinda theorized that there had been multiple Travelers before but the Pyramids (The Winnower) are just more enticing as they speak to individual greeds and lusts, whereas the Traveler (The Gardner) entices people to be thoughtful of everything around them, thereby persuading them to be ultimately better than they would otherwise be in following the Winnower.
Honestly, the direction they've started taking the story in and the level of care they've been putting into it has been amazing! I've really happy that the lore is getting where we can genuinely theorize some pretty deep stuff and have the strong possibility of it being answered or touched on. Directly or Indirectly.
@@firdouglas2946 ok savathun might be saying saying is all true since we think all she says is lies a way to minipulate our thoughts but if you put a little truth in that endles pool of lies then its trully a gamble to get real information from her
On that "Trust me." line, read the lore tab on the new Trials Linear Fusion.
"Trust me." Is said to Reed-7 about Shayura, about the events of the match detailed in last season's Trials gear.
Things are getting interesting, certainly.
Me and my lore buddy spent on day one An hour or so reading all the new lore, our favorite was the one about how “Iron Lord Saladin Forge…” and his anger toward who ducked over his fellow gaurdians. I need a cutscene with Saladin and Saint fucking DESTROYING SOME HIVE
Me too kid, me too
We need Saint, Saladin, and Ikora just kill all the hive as soon as they get back Osiris
Yep, we need to see saladin yeet Saint in to a thundercrash headbutt toward the hive
@@hoj4984 Or better yet, Saint dragging a hive knight, by the ankle, into a bubble.
one of my favorite lore tabs of this season the the tab from the Chrysura Melo, especially the last five paragraphs and what it could mean for our favorite shouty man
I've been thinking Savathun actually let us kill Quaria to lessen her connections to the Darkness. It seems see's wanting to break free from the control a paracasual entity (removing her worm to no longer be a pawn of the Dark, the powers in Witch Queen (no spoilers), etc.). I also believe this is the reason Xivu's hunting her
Talking with a friend, I'm revised to say she probably anticipated both outcomes, so either way she'd be a winner from last season
I kind of agree with savathûn. Her cutscene did make a lot of sense but ”not agreeing with her methods” is far from the truth. She is the reason cayde died. I do not understand why mara sided with her. Mara loves her brother and he would still remember her if it wasn’t for savathûn. He wouldn’t be corrupted. Granted, he would be a dick but he would still be him. Cayde would be alive. Have people forgotten cayde? Did he die for nothing?
Mara is doing what she is doing because she's entirely self-serving. This is the same woman who expects people to just blindly follow her and not question her actions or motives, and then gets violently angry if people call her out on just being absentee. It's entirely within her purview to strike a deal with Savathun if it furthers her own plans, regardless of what may happen.
Mara emotionally abused and manipulated her brother while he was alive.
She may have “loved” him in some form, but that’s because he was loyal. she wasn’t a stellar sister.
She already said if we remove her worm then it will make Savathun vulnerable so she's just taking another huge risk but she knows Savathun will betray us eventually and I wouldn't say she sided with her they only came to an agreement
she didnt side with her. she is removing her worm because it would make savathun vulnerable
The Saint\Osiris story these past few seasons has taken on waves of deeper heartbreak with this week's story 😭
Savathun’s reveal changed every single interaction that we had or heard of “Osiris” in the past year. That’s amazing
To be fair, a lot of people called it THE MOMENT the season of the hunt started.
Time to go replay all three versions of presage and shit myself
I still can't get over it. For MONTHS, if not over a YEAR, the prevailing theory has been that Osiris was _brainwashed_ by Savathûn via her song, and that she might be influencing him remotely. Nobody thought he was literally POSSESSED.
@@josh___something nah, it was known by splicer, no one thought he was savathun in hunt
Osiris' body language was more out of pocket than a vex hobgoblin t-posing, and that's saying something
When you say Osiris was collecting Hive ghosts, you mean Spider's dead ghost collection, right?
*creepy unsettling smile*
Yeah, that seems like it was a mistake. I don't know if they were Spiders, or just Ghosts collected from various places, but he sent Crow to gather them and we haven't encountered Hive Ghosts yet.
I am assuming from Spider's stock of dead ghosts.
Spider collects ghost shells, Savathun was collecting the light crystal, the thing the ghost uses to bring us back
Honestly, if we get to rescue Osiris, the reunion between him and Saint is 100% gonna make me cry. But if we don’t get to rescue him, I will die inside for Saint. 😭
The Witch Queen has to end with Saint crushing Savathun's skull with his bare hands. I cannot accept any other finale, he deserves it.
Get used to disappointment.
@@lucifercaeleste I sure hope you're right.
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 no need to worry, O Witch Queen Mine.
@@lucifercaeleste If I end up dying in the end of the season, I'm blaming it on your words!
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 if you die then you were an imposter.
I like how she everything good thing she told us she did in that cutscene was her fault at the origin it was just a domino effect
-she said she helped redeem uldren but in reality she and riven are the one who made him insane and made him do these thing in the first place
-she protected zavala from ciatal ambitions: she is the one who made the fall of the cabal home world possible and the reason ciatal made her way into our solar system in the first place
-
Presage and now this, there’s the grim dark red pepper flakes Destiny was missing for a minute there
We truly need more of this. After all, Destiny is such a grimdark setting. Humanity is on the brink of extinction and has no power of their own to save themselves from the almost daily alien invasions and eldritch monsters and machines seeking to wipe us out for reasons most don't understand. We rely on some wounded machine God that embodies a cosmic force, one that has abandoned other civilizations in the past, to bring back a select few of our dead to defend us and hopefully they don't go insane or get corrupted by the dark forces opposing us.
Agree. Sprinkled-in comedic relief is fine, but Destiny's universe has always been grimdark and the narrative works best when kept that way imo. Goofy armor and bad jokes aside, Destiny is supposed to always have an overarching feeling of loss, dread, and anxiety which drives the story
Every time Savathûn speaks I can just hear Eris screaming at us. I hope we see her reaction to these events
You might not see her at all.
Just noticed something cool. In the opening mission when Mara says to lower our weapons, you can actually see our guardian doing this. 2:15
Neat
When it happened I was like “really, bro?! the word from a long gone Awoken is enough to make you trust a Hive queen?!”
@@thekhoifish0146 ikr
I just the love the little spirit fingers wave that Osiris does in that cutscene 😂
I bet he’s not actually alive and savathûn is deceiving us
Everything she says is a lie, he’s neither dead nor alive as far as I’m concerned. I put him in the same place as Toland right now.
@@shotokanrob2487 Schroedingers Osiris?
@@Subsistence69 if you will.
That reading of the lore card for the bow...I'm speechless. This is why you're lore daddy. The way you bring life into just reading a bit of lore, it's like I'm watching each characters mannerisms, all through just you reading. Amazing.
Man where is Eris when we need her? So many of these hive threats could so easily be avoided if she was around. Sadly she only shows up when the shit has already hit the fan with the hive (for story reasons obviously)...
Probably playing in the snow on europa with Drifter and Elsie.
@@arcanetraveller6304 best comment yet haha I love that image you painted for us, just imagining eris and Elsie rolling a snowman while drifter throws snowballs at them
Doesn't eris become the witch queen in the other timelines? I wouldn't want her ass anywhere near any hive
@@devilkid224 she doesn't necessarily become the Witch Queen she somehow finds a way to control Savathun and use her to do her bidding
Eris isn’t all that noble. She liked the darkness if you recall, was also eager to communicate with it and in the altered timeline takes Savathun’s place basically.
I like how this past year has been marked with instance after instance of us having to accept and work with allies that used to be our worst enemies, yet the moment we encounter Savathun, an entity that doesn't work for the Darkness and is rather opposed to the Black Fleet, we immediately throw all of that out the window and don't even consider the possibility that she could at least be of some use.
Saladin doesn't seem so racist now, does he?
"my sister hunts me on behalf of another". This implies that xivu aurath is hunting savathun not only because of sword logic, but also because someone has xivu doing it for them.
Also love how savathun goes "etcetera etcetera" when going through her title like she's recited it dozens of times before like she's tired of it
we already know why xivu arath is hunting savathun.
Because savathun interfered with our communication with the darkness, the darkness got pissed off at her so it told all of it's forces to kill her.
@@yaz5300 It's because, like she says, Savathun wants to be free. Free of the pack with worm gods, and the deep/darkness. She's tried to trick her worm before, failing at it.
@@Hallu91 I feel like her saying “another” means it’s a single person not the worm gods or the darkness. I feel like if it was just the darkness she would have said so. Also I believe it might be Calus.
Or the one behind the darkness.
@@zeraphphalanx2794 that’s what I meant by “the darkness ”
Mara: "someone once told me-"
Me: 🎵 THE WORLD WAS GONNA ROLL MEE 🎵
I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. 🎵
1. Poor Osiris, just hang in there old man we will get u back
2. Savathon trying to manipulate us .me : nope I'm not listening to queen of lies
Better get your best weapons ready because this moth queen is going to crash and burn VERY hard.
I love how expressive each character was in the intro cutscene. It added so much depth. Good job destiny!
I’m pretty bloody worried on how Savathûn is going to manipulate us this Season, I mean, we’ve only talked with her once, and She’s already managed to convince half the community that she’s an ally
She MIGHT be an ally against the Darkness while it is a common enemy. But, the moment the Darkness is defeated, she WILL turn against us.
There are three types of allies:
1) The kind you can trust: I think the Mithrax is a good example of this
2) The kind you trust for the most part, but there are reasons you don't fully trust: I think Caiatl and Mara fall in this category
3) The kind you don't trust at all, so you make sure to hold your cards close to your chest and use the alliance to further your own goals while preparing for when the alliance ends. If there is an alliance with Savathun, this would be the kind we have. BUT, if we do this, we better be careful because it isn't an issue of playing with fire, it is playing with a nuke.
Yeah, the problem with doing a “manipulative character” storyline is that most of the community isn’t going to realize she’s lying through her teeth at us
I think it is more for hope that we get a new never expected ally than actual convinced,
Thats what it is for me at least
@@fort809
That’s what makes it great. I love that she isn’t just a clear and plain villain, she’s written with this incredible antagonist charisma that can make you forget for a second that she actually is a big enemy that has been going against us for literal years.
@@fort809 In the end, it doesn't matter if we do believe her or not. Even though the saying is 'Guardians make their own fate', that is a blatant lie in reality. Everything we do is because someone told us to do it. As a Guardian, we have little to no freedom in what we do in the story. At best, we act as observes to the game's events.
I like that implication in the Boots of the Assembler lore that Osiris underneath his ancient wisdom and stoicism does have a rather romantic side, really humanizes him in a way i just didn't expect
Wait, but that lore is specifically about how that ISN'T Osiris, it's Savathun wearing his skin... It's arguably the literal opposite of humanizing. Wut.
@@jaradsibon6047 "We could fly out to the Alps," Saint suggested. "Or walk around the ruins of Prague. Like we used to."
This part specifically, before Savathûn it would seem that Osiris and Saint had a surprisingly warm and romantic relationship, which i didn't expect even from CoO or Dawn era Osiris
Damnit, who left all these chopped onions on my desk when I'm trying to watch Byf? This has happened so many times!
Us: Saves Osiris.
Saint: Grabs Savathun by the throat.
Me: "Cat fight!"
Saint! Go be with Osiris. Savathun is mine to deal with. *loads The Last Word with malicious intent*
I find it very interesting that Eris hasn't shown up in a while
You might be onto something. We'll keep an eye out for further Eris related things, since this stuff is right up her alley.
@@joshuavidrine889 I was expecting her to instruct us in the new Dark subclass by teaching us Hive magic, but they've put that aside for the Light sub reworks. I do still expect Eris to become involved with this season and a bigger role beside Ikora during Witch Queen's campaign.
@@Wulfspyder in lightfall?
Mhm, the only “guardian” with something else besides a ghost that guides her. She’ll be the witch queens vessel.
I might've taken care of her.
the boots of the assembler lore tab is absolutely heartbreaking seeing how saint was feeling during this
I’m guessing he’s trapped, traveling the jungles of Savathun’s throne world.
It’s pretty clear that Osiris has been without physical form this whole time just a passenger
@@mrmr3657 the plot of Get Out but the Titan flashbang grenade doesnt work
I dont play destiny 2 but have we seen her throne world? I assumed it would have been a lot more like crota's
@@theonlythingihavetosayis9333 Witch queens trailer shows her throneworld off
@@AceOfHearts777 ohhh ok. Thats cool then. I had no idea throne worlds were so different from one another
What do you hear Osiris?
"The ignorance of my youth, unproven faith wilted by logic"
Such a different context now. I really want to know exactly what Savathun heard in the glyckon.
Ive been wondering this too
The Books of Sorrow claim that upon fleeing from their throne, Savathun (then Sathona), stole the skin of her father's dead Worm god. As the three Hive Gods scoured the oceans for answers on how to reclaim their throne - the dead Worm whispered to Savathun, telling them to dive into the core of their own planet.
There, they found the Worm Gods. The Worms offered great, unimaginable power, capable of achieving immortality - at the cost of always being fed, and always enacting their nature: Xivu Arath must always be strong, Savathun must always be cunning, and Oryx must always try to understand the world's secrets. They were locked in a cycle that would never end - doomed to wage war, kill and trick, destroying any civilization they could ever come across, never being able to consider peace for as long as they could be called "The Hive", all to retain their power - or die.
"The ignorance of my youth, unproven faith wilted by logic."
"She cannot be trusted" Zavala said the same thing about Rasputin and Byf said the same thing about wielding the darkness
Took a break from destiny but I’m glad to have found your channel once again.
Can't shake the feeling that savathun's song is gonna play a role at the end of the season story...perhaps possessing crow?
Please no, I want Crow to grow as a guardian
The moral of the story is if you cross paths with Savathun, she'll steal your mythology cosplaying boyfriend by cosplaying as him. Noted.
Bruh someone needs to hold back Saint 14 because when saint 14 gets his hands on the witch queen there’s going to be nothing left to turn into a gun
I'm working on it!
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 Wait a minute ...
"When Saint gets his hands on the witch queen."
>looks at the Witch Queen DLC trailer
I don't think such a moment will be as satisfying as you think.
It's mad well the writing is! I've felt so bad for Saint this whole time because of how he must have been feeling under the impression that there was a gap widening between him and osiris up until now.
Also I'm curious about what role the drifter will have from now.
hearing Saint-14 saying "NO" in pain just hurt me so much TT
I was so proud of myself when I finished that mission to find I’ve been right about Osiris since Crow started whistling the song. But I didn’t even think that it was Osiris’ body. I just imagined her trapping him and assuming his shape not actually TAKING it. The poor man, Saint is gonna go nuts of Savathun if he’s given the chance.
My lord I am on the edge of tearing up… awesome video byf 😭
"Dont't trust savathun"
Yeah too late for me, plans already in place
Oh poor Saint and Osiris. I always thought Osiris was a bit stuck up, but he doesn't deserve this. And Saint, well savathoon will fear him like the fallen once did.
I'm really glad they're delving into what's been happening to Osiris. I know for a while the community was clowning on Osiris being sus all the time etc and so forth. But this really is a tragic series of events and I honestly feel really bad for Osiris in general. It's going to be a good long while until we are able to rescue him as well. I'm holding out hope for Saint to get his revenge, but something tells me this threat has a lot more up her sleeve than what we're capable of dealing with.
I feel so awful for or Osiris. It’s absolute torture. And poor Saint. The Pigeon hasn’t truly reunited with his Phoenix…
The moment when saint gets his hands on the real Osiris though
I think the most important thing with Savathun is something I learnt from a distant relative who was a diplomat in the 50s. To paraphrase: "Never ask if [Savathun] is lying. Instead as 'why did [she] say that?" It's pointless to try and discern truth from lies when even *questionining* gives her more power. Instead, it's more useful to ask 'what does she gain by my believing this statement'.
wonder if that's what our guardians experience when we control them
"Please, stop making me jump over the edge of the Tower, I just- Oh, well here I go dying again."
@@joshuavidrine889 or "why are you making to spare Uldren Sov, I'm going to personally pull the trigger you - oh hey I have my body back now"
Nah, your consciousness is the canon persona of your Guardian. It's something Bungie put forth awhile back that how players do things is actually how the Guardians that go out on strikes and raids act.
@@Wulfspyder good to know guardians CANONICALLY jump on Savathun's crystallized head and teabag then. :P
Man! That wolftone draw
lore tab gave me chills!
I've been emotionally distressed ever since reading the Wolftone Draw lore and my desire to somehow save him has intensified tenfold
Just realized that we were given a clue to Osiris being Savathun during Chosen, through Presage, with this dialogue when conversing with Caitl on the voices they heard:
"The ignorance of my youth; the pain of change. Unproven faith wilted by logic."
Cool. So I am not the only one who had a strange feeling about that one.
I really want to know if there is any significance to Savathun using the ahamkara terminology, “Oh guardian mine”
Anthem anatheme
Bewitchment incantation.
Thank you Byf, I was starting to fall for Savathûn and you just reminded me exactly who she is.
And since I take Destiny very seriously it has an immense personal meaning.
Thank you very much.
So question: did she just destroy Osiris’s body by morphing and he can’t have a form now regardless of return?
Nokris' necromancy.......
She said she'll give him back, but ahe never said alive. Osiris's conciousness is being held hostage & he is screaming for us to let him die.
Yeah I doubt he will come back in the same form that we knew him, maybe some kind of energy ball like what toland is now, or a bug like Omar agah
well multiple thinks can happen
1st it wasnt Osiris real body but more of a Copy
2nd osiris will be a crystal
3rd osiris will be back but dead
4th osiris will be heavily mentally broken but alive
5th Osiris will become like Eris Morn with those Eyes and all
6th he is alive
obviously he wont be revived(Necromancy) as it is against the sword logic "weak deserve to be dead"
whatever it is i highly doubt osiris will return healthy plus you forget the new dlc called "witchqueen" where you kill her and they say "her biggest lie" so i think we wont get him bacl healthy at all high chance hs is dead
@@johnnyblacklaughingcoffin406 yeah its unknown atm
Another weapon lore tab that I really enjoy this season is Chrysura Melo's : Savathun thinks back on what she did as Osiris, and even gives valuable insight on how powerful her song is. So powerful it totally pacified Shaxx when he sensed her presence in the Ahamkara skull. So uuh yeah, scary moth.
0.o
My favorite new lore tab so far this season is on the Iron Banner weapon Forge's Pledge. We know SAINT is pissed, but there's an even older Titan, one who's seen just as much battle and may know more on loss, and you REALLY don't want to be on his bad side. And Savathun is definitely on his bad side...
For my personal safety, I wish to know who this Titan is!
Edit: Damn it! I shouldn't have said wish!
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 Riven nearby: Your wish is now granted, my Queen. Good luck.....
A few seconds later.....
Saladin appears rights in front of Savathun's statue.
Saladin: '....and if I was ever in front of that hag of a witch, I would....'
*notices where he is. Looks to the statue*
'Huh, guess I'll show what I would do then.' Saladin smiles.
@@savathunthewitchqueen3055 Riven nearby: Your wish is now granted, my Queen. Good luck.....
A few seconds later.....
Saladin appears rights in front of Savathun's statue.
Saladin: '....and if I was ever in front of that hag of a witch, I would....'
*notices where he is. Looks to the statue*
'Huh, guess I'll show what I would do then.' Saladin smiles.
osiris saying "ill hold you to it" and hearing Savathun saying it in the background is great
Hey Byf! I don’t know you’ve already done this, but I would love to see a video on Throne Worlds before the Witch Queen release! One thing that still bugs me about the Witch Queen reveal is how they mention that powerful ‘entities’ can create Throne Worlds, not just Hive. Obviously, there was one scorn baron with a Throne World in Forsaken, but he was already involved with Hive magic. I guess my main question is, if any kind of entity can have a Throne World as long as their powerful enough, wouldn’t we see more of them? Hell, shouldn’t we, the main guardian, have our own Throne World? We’ve killed countless gods! Now, I’m not that well versed in Destiny lore. So I’d love a video where you do a deep dive into the lore of Throne Worlds! Thanks Byf, and can’t wait to see your vids leading up to Witch Queen and Dynasty!
Saint finding out his lover was a monster in disguise this whole time, and not his actual lover... Thats... alot.
I'm deeply concern because Savathun sounds just like a Ex girlfriend I had we are completely screwed.
You ex girlfriend has a super sexy voice?
Speaking from experience i see
Fantastic reading of the lore Byf. I was hooked.
Osiris got “Taken” advantage 🤦🏽♂️, I hope he gets a redemption arc.
Can't wait for the raid where one encounter is just a PvP moment against two fireteams each being disguised as Hive guardians to the other